Why your Brass Model is WEAK from LAZY Engineering (and how to fix it)
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- A video ramble about the low effort brass manufacturers put into adding an appropriate amount of weight to their brass steam locomotive models, leading to poor performance and lack of pulling power.
I also show how to guide for adding weight to your brass steam engines. Enjoy!
I'm glad that Division Point put alot of extra weight in the Soo Line Mikado 1003. I don't have to add anything as its way more powerful than my 4-8-4 even is.
@@modelrailwaybackshop seems like some manufacturers care more about performance than others 🤷🏻♂️
The amount of weight over the drivers is important. But how it's balanced over the drivers is equally important. Commenting before watching the entire video, so you may have covered that later on.
When weighting your locomotives, pay attention to the balance point of it after adding weight. Also, measure current draw before and after.
For the most effective weighting of steam locomotives, melt bismuth alloy into the boiler after sealing up any and all holes. This fills every nook and cranny of the boiler. Other materials are heavier than bismuth (lead and tungsten), but you're not going to be able to completely fill the spaces in the boiler.
yes I covered balancing in the video lol. i dont understand why ppl feel the need to comment before listening to the point in its entirety...youd think it would save the effort it takes to write something up. but hey i dont judge.
While melting bismuth (or lead, or etc) is the most effective way of packing as much weight to a boiler as possible, it often isnt practical for most of us. Gotta work with what you got.
@@trainman440 Yeah, LOL... You're right of course. I guess it's a matter of attention span.
Aside from that... Yes, you have to work with what you've got. I model narrow gauge and the locomotives are small, so space is very limited. Trying to balance between adding enough weight and balancing that weight over the drivers is always a compromise.
I equalize the driving wheels using a rigid beam suspension (the scale I model in is too small for springs over the axle bearings), so that just adds another layer of complexity.
Good to see someone dissecting and improving brass locomotives. Most guys are too chicken to do such a thing to an expensive brass locomotive. I do it all the time, most don't run worth a darn out of the box (I'm speaking of vintage brass here, modern stuff might be a lot better).
@@WHJeffB agreed! every engine i get will absolutely be run. I have tons of both cheap and more "premium" models. I dont pay much for any of it. And I like getting my hands dirty to get the very most out of each :) cheers!
I have followed your videos for a long time, and agree with almost all of your comments on them, including this one. I`m an older retired gentleman, living in Pittsburgh, Pa., and would enjoy an opportunity to meet or talk with you some time, but I don`t know how that could be arranged in privacy. I have worked on many locomotive projects over the years, that I`m sure you would find very interesting.
@@DavidSchubert-h5y hey! Glad to hear my fanbase is of all ages. Pittsburgh is far from where I live though so I dont find it likely for us to meet. sorry :/
Best of all this trick works on RTR MODELS TOO!!
Its harder to do in RTR models but yes. RTR models are generally better designed to utilize all the space inside the boiler. They tend to be light simply due to inefficient design and overuse of plastics or other lighter weight materials. For example, the addition of many plastic brackets, large gearboxes, smoke units, excessive PCBs or electronics, etc. Therefore it is generally more difficult to add weight to RTR engines, but certainly not impossible.
Please do a clip of the engines running and pulling after you added the weight.
I currently dont have a layout big enough (4x8) that could fit the length of cars this loco can currently pull.
Yes! Someone agrees with me on this, though what I will add is RTR locomotives aren't super great either. I mean look at the crappy Bachmann Russian Decapod, that's an utter joke in it barely being able to its own weight. In addition, ANY BLI loco can't haul crap without traction tires and I hate having to use them. They're just so much of a dirt magnet.
I just found "Liquid Leadshot" from DCC Concepts (I had to have it shipped from Britain) the other week which literally is just leadshot and I plan to put that in my various locomotives to weigh them down. What you do is just fill a little bag with them, then stuff it in the boiler and because its essentially a ton of little lead ball bearing looking things, it easily conforms to the shape. I see that you also got wheels weights for auto wheels. Yeah I got those too but didn't think to hammer them like you did. I was just going insane trying to find something that works well as is more or less fluid or easily. Because without getting a flipping mini furnace/forge to be able to melt down metals and actually cast a weight, I was thinking it was impossible to make my locomotives weigh enough to pull, and yes I am using THE word, *prototypical* length consists on their own with NO traction tires. Its like...my PRR L1 should be able to pull a 40 car train on its own. It did it in real life and what it was designed for, the model should do the same. Its just a scaled down version of the full sized thing. But apparently without a traction tire set on, it can barely pull 20 cars *on* *the* *flat.* Imagine trying to go up a grade. Now with the leadshot, I'll be able to actually do this. I also agree with the smoke units in HO scale. They suck majorly anyway and cause a HUGE weight reduction in the model. They just make no sense for HO as you need all the weight you can get when rolling stock weighs so much in comparison. HO Scale I found has THE WORST size to weight and tractive effort ratio of any scale. Power is utterly fine with us having motors that #1. Don't burn out like the old ones can, and #2. Have loads of overall power plus torque to provide. Flywheel and Can motors are just 100x better. Wheelslip also needs to be allowed to exist and yeah, if you have no traction tires equipped, you'll always get it at some point.
I think you're over generalizing. CERTAIN BLI models cant pull. But not all. Case in point, their paragon2+ I1sa is a plastic loco and a giant smoke unit taking up most of the space inside the boiler. it barely pulls anything. But if youve ever held one of their paragon1/qsi K4s, I think you would have your mind changed. Its got 100% diecast construction, tender shell and all, AND it has a giant lead weight taking up most of the boiler space. Gosh, that thing can PULL.
I dont use traction tires, and i reserve the use of "tungsten putty" or "liquid weight" products for only the hardest to add weight areas of steam locos. Most of the time the cheap 1/4oz lead weights hammered into shape has been sufficient. Making my engines TOO heavy only causes them to potentially be damaged during transport.
I also like to doublehead locos frequently, so a loco thats not too heavy isnt a big problem, and not being too heavy only helps prevent wheel wear when the two locos arent perfectly speed matched. Gotta make do with what you got lol.
I plan to eventually rip out all the smoke units out of my BLI locos and replace them all with a chunky lead weight, for improved pulling power. Cheers!
@@trainman440 Oh yeah. I actually own 2 BLI QSI era K4s I bought from a guy...that both came dead on arrival due to the decoders. I was rather impressed with the weight of them, but that's also because they don't have smoke units. I have a PCM T-1 too which can pull about 40 cars on the flat without traction tires. But unfortunately I still find that rather lackluster knowing how much the real things could pull. I was primarily talking about their more modern iterations where people sacrifice weight for "ooo look smoke" when in reality that smoke also just gets oil vapor everywhere inside the model. (Rather sticky and goopy mess on the inside)
And heck, my PRR L1 is die cast, yet only weighs about 14 ounces at most. I bought a scale to see how much all my stuff weighs, and man that is incredibly low because of the smoke unit. The T-1 still outpulls it by about double.
@@nickb.1095 i think the fact that smoke units in lieu of lead weight means youre giving up performance for a feature has already beaten to death. but yes. smoke units are sacrifices. Its not as simple as some people say "if you dont like it turn it off". They dont account for the lost weight that having an unused smoke unit inside their locos is hurting their performance.
@@trainman440 Exactly, then really don't seem to understand why their locomotive can't pull that much. In fact one guy I watch is British and Bachmann didn't even bother to put a weight in their Black 5. The boiler was completely empty! I was honestly shocked.
@@trainman440 I have a BLI Northern Pacific A-3, and it's fairly heavy and very powerful. I haven't really had any major problems with it. It's also THE most expensive locomotive in my entire collection.
If you can't increase weight you can increase adhesion with bullfrog snot or traction tires. Considering you would only lose the driven axles electrical pickup I think they are a good trade off.
@@Bdmrr I absolutely despise bullfrog snot. Have you actually used it before? it makes your driver ever so slightly bigger than all the others, and literally LIFTS your engine up so your engine either see saws back and forth or it lifts other drivers off so they barely touch the track. If you havent used bullfrog snot before please dont promote it.
@@trainman440 I have used it. Did not notice the side effect. Did u apply it too thick?
I think it’s supposed to be a very light application
@@Bdmrr perhaps. Maybe I'll have to try again. In general though I dont prefer using snot. If I cant add more weight, I'll simply doublehead the train!
@@trainman440 I agree but sometimes I want a boiler barker
I’ve never understood the appeal of buying a locomotive and not running it.
yea, i find it pretty insane. but I understand some people are in the hobby more to collect and less to operate. I personally dont understand the draw but I can respect it.
"Shelf Queens" as some call them. My friend has quite a few of those now...primarily because he also bought expensive brass models "just to have", then after receiving them, realized they don't even operate after paying over $1,000 for the model.
My late Grandfather acquired a few locomotives to put on display inside cases. More specifically, he got an HO scale brass Overland Models Inc. Northern Pacific A-2 (which, sadly, doesn't run at all), an O scale MTH Premier New York Central J1e Hudson (which actually runs, and the sounds and lights are really amazing), a brass 2-rail O scale Overland Models Inc. Northern Pacific A-5 (which I have no idea if it runs or not due to the fact that I don't have any 2-rail O scale track), and an O scale MTH Premier DM&IR M-3 Yellowstone (which also runs, has awesome sounds and lights, and it's also the largest and heaviest model railroad locomotive I have ever held, period). All four of those models are really amazing.
I’m just curious how you qualify/quantify ‘enough’ pulling power- certain # of cars, just raw drawbar pull in oz., etc. It seems even just among bli there can be massive variation in pulling power (reading t1s are particularly anemic ime), while others can do 2-3x what the t1s can do. Another great video 👍
Look at what the full scale thing did, if it can pull what it did in full scale, then that's the right weight to me. To me it being "too heavy" isn't a problem. Why? You want to the thing to be as heavy as realistically possible, but that's REALLY hard to do with steam. Its easy for electrics or diesels and you can create real bricks with them. A PRR L1 should theoretically be able to pull 40 cars without struggling. A PRR H10 anywhere between 35 to 40. Each locomotive was designed to haul a specific amounts of cars and perform specific tasks. The PRR used 2-8-0s and 2-8-2s primarily for locals, so your talking 50 cars max or less in most cases. Double heading sure was a thing, but you didn't tend to see the Connies or Mikes on ore or coal drags, you saw their I1sas and N1s on those more often then not.
"enough" is simply when the engine is capable of pulling a realistic number of train cars. For example a single BLI paragon1 PRR K4 can pull 20 passenger cars. that is "enough". A BLI Paragon2 I1sa (plastic shell, smoke unit) struggles to pull 15 40' boxcars. That is insufficient in my book.
@@trainman440 Agreed...I'll be weighing mine down more. That was one of the 1st things I also noticed, the weight isn't balanced over the back driver to give it traction.
@@nickb.1095 balancing is especially difficult/critical for engines such as 4-4-0s. really hard to find spaces to put weight on the back side.
Ive been having the same problem with my bachmann k4 its so light
yea, and unfortunately there isnt much free space in the boiler. So its hard to add more weight. Although my experience with my Bachmann K4 actually indicates a weak motor/low gear ratio, and not the lack of weight thats causing poor pulling power. The motor itself stalls when pulling a "realistic" size train.
@@trainman440 yeah then thats the probably the problem with mine may club is mostly flat so even most weak locomotives are fine but the moment i try to pull a realistic train 1361 just cant do it so thats probably the problem
The reason they didn’t add the weight is because of cost. It’s cheaper to ship and has less risk of damage.
@@barkonious Unlikely. These models are expensive and made in very limited runs. Impact on shipping cost is negligible. And with two screws bolting it down I find it unlikely it being damaged. But who knows I guess.
@@trainman440 Samhongsa was known for cutting corners. Friends who were dealers had problems with their engines brand new. Also because these locos came with the weight installed they had to keep the weight down to avoid damage. The reason the micro cast engines had a bigger weight is because they were no installed from the factory they didn't have to worry about the weight shifting and causing damage to the models.
@@barkonious I know of many other brass models that had preinstalled weights inside boilers with MUCH bigger weights. I dont accept that as the primary "reason" for why they included such a small weight.
more weight
more or less yea