The thing to understand about AMG, is that they LOOOOVE to lean hard into gimmicks. I blame the fact that their design process is essentially one person that comes up with a nonsensical build, and the rest of the design team are tasked with shoehorning that build into the system.
The sniper is expensive, has a 1/4 chance of making the shot, takes up an action and only removes a single wound. I don't see this being a problem for balance. That said, I also don't see the point of introducing alternative rules to wounding with weapons. They shouldn't do this.
Me and My best friend have been playing legion for about 2-3 years now and generally dislike most of the update, and we effectively devised our own version that kitbashes the rules to take the most fun from both. We only play casually, never really build competitive lists since we only play against eachother, so weve never really seen an issue regarding the ping damage but i see the concern and if they continue to advance that tech i could see the issue, and maybe its worse in official games.
As someone deathly allergic to hyper competitive play, I would much rather see big flashy abilities that are just as likely to fail, than these little guarantee pings that can get stacked up. In my opinion, more swingy gameplay = more variety of gameplay= more fun
The treatment of Armada and X-Wing were why I never got into Legion. Was considering it again, the last few days, until I saw this video. Think I'll just steer clear of Asmodee in general, anymore.
I think Legion update was generally a good thing for the hobby. 1000 points means so many list possibilities and I want to put ATST in all my lists. Also love the turn 0 and deployment. Not sure about all the changes to objectives and some units/cards feel underpowered/overcosted. I play empire and rebels and only really play against my buddy who has GAR and CIS. Especially GAR seems to be ahead of the curve and doesnt always feel fair on the tabletop. I dont like how they did half an update and left a lot of unit profiles unchanged. I heard the rest will follow in the coming summer, but somehow im wondering if they will not "forget" some older things, especially command cards.
Feels kinda Games Workshop-esque, what you're talking about. Everything has special rules that break other rules and we'd need new rules for just rules interactions. Spam the new units to be competitive because of power creep while old units get nerfed. Hopefully we never go full-GW with FOMO boxes (for the upcoming hard plastic resculpts?) and paid rules.
Agree with both points. I used to run Empire fitted for range 4 shooting (Krennic, Death Troopers, Bossk, DLT Stormtroopers). The rules change made the list useless. They basically removed the aim action, because now I am forced to move, so Precise has no effect. Once I'm contesting objectives I get Charged, so no more shooting. And they nerfed Stormtrooper melee to "make room" for the Riot Squad, which costs DOUBLE points of what DLT troopers cost... So, I have to buy three Dewbacks now to be competitive? No thanks XD. The other Empire players in my community feel the same.
I am a new player, just started buying stuff a few months before 2.0 and this sort of thing sucks. It seems like AMG is trying to balance the game to stop one meta but then produces another. Based on what I know, experimental droids was a meta that was nerfed by Clone Commandos and ARCs after 2.0, but now clones are OP. So riot squads are the empire's counter to Clone Commandos. Just seems like they need to maybe finish fine tunning units to make it more balanced instead of releasing more, but hey AMG wants to milk this as much as possible sadly.
A lot of commenters here saying the same thing: AMG borked the 2.0 release, and we're worried they'll kill the game like Armada and X-wing. Given that Legion and the Star Wars IP seems to be a license to print money, what are they thinking?!
I am seriously considering passing on 2nd edition. 1 was casual friendly, fun and allowed so much diversity and not make it dependant on "this season meta darling"
@@EliWintercrossagree the rules were simpler and quicker to pickup. Practice the new rules for competitive games, but use the old to get people into it.
I never moved to 2nd, the turn 0 system looks far inferior to the variety of mission, deployment and conditions I'm used to. If I wanted to play a take and hold style game I'd dust off my Necrons and have at it.
My issue with the new rule set is just how it feels, which is so dumb on my part. The new deployment makes a lot more sense if you think about it as two armies rushing to combat. It’s the go go moment in movies when all the troops run off the carrier at the start of the movie. It’s cool but I don’t want that rushed feeling in my tactical wargame. Snipers dealing auto damage is such a cool cinematic moment, like a cutscene in a game. But I want to roll my dice and maximize my game play, not spend an action to activate a cutscene. I don’t think the rules are bad. It’s just really game for me right now. Maybe when it’s all out I will like it better.
I agree the design space of roll a die and the cause a wound and the opponent has no mechanism to prevent it. That being said the marksman upgrade costs 30 points and only has a 25% chance to causes a wound. Considering that you can almost get a storm trooper unit for that cost it doesn't seem worth it. If it comes down in cost then it could be a problem. To the spamming of units, legion has always really been that way at least competitively.
You understand my concerns very well. The over one that i think should be mentioned is the balloning of unit to get 4 or 5 extra models. Example is the Rebel troopers. By adding a Z6 and the 5 additional members, the dice pool skyrockets to 9 black and 6 white. 15 total dice. Times that by 6 for the max core and you are rolling 90 total dice a turn (36 white and 54 black). Now you are basically wiping units off the board. All these changes feel heavily influenced by 40K and that is not really a good thing.
Yeah but also like thematically you can take swarms of rebels, or swarms of b1s which like yeah rebels you can take 60 odd dudes but with the points your can essentially only fit 10 acts of 60 guys plus a commander and whilst that is a lot of dice it’s also not very good, like that list loses to 2 seppy AAT tanks and some B2s or any clone list. Like it’s cool thematically and you can actually bring an army which is cool and it’s not overpowered which is also nice.
I've stopped playing legion because of the half baked rules and cards they put out. AMG releasing half a game is poor form and unacceptable. They should have released the whole new edition at once. The obvious clone meta right now is unfun and very demoralizing. At least this gives me time to play other more fun games
Its saddening to see how our local playing community to starting to die off. The new way of play seemed likes a great idea at first, but it feels difficult to play the game and the fact that we had to print our own new cards etc. Also nerfing current units so much, instead of just brining in new units with new abilities, also has caused a lot of disruption
I just think not releasing 2.0 as a package was bad business. I have long thought AMG was making a mistake not publishing their updates as a magazine, with a subscription, to include a model or two, or inserted updates cards. Cards should be designed to simply refer to an app, so details can be updated dynamically or in reference to an updated print sheet. These folks are missing ways to make money, and build fan base because they seem unable to manage the print and cardboard aspect of their games. No, I don’t want to print out reams of paper and cut out cards every six months.
7:27 I think commandos are the poster child for the balance problem we're having right now. Commandos are so good that taking anything else is kind of silly competetively, so other solid to really good units just won't see any play. Clone AT-RTs are, like, really good in a vaccuum. But for anywhere from 10 more to 5 less points, why wouldn't you just use your support spot for commandos?
I do like to use the rules framework consistently and avoid special casing - but it’s hard for me imagine that many people will even breakout the riot control squad. No one in my local store uses riot control squad, even though people are buying them to paint. I could see mechanics like this becoming problematic in the future if the units that have these special case rules become more popular.
I totally agree with you on both these trends. The first one breaks too many rules and opens up to so many mean combos like attacking twice with the same miniature or sniping and stand by. All of these is totally out of the game logic and doesn't describe anything that special, i mean they are snipers, why just dont make them heavy weapons as usual snipers? I completely agree with you on the second trend, the one about units developed to be spammed. I’d also like to add that this transition phase, while necessary and generally positive in terms of rules, seems to be managed chaotically, with new and old cards mixed together, extreme delays in releases, and a general sense of complacency. I hope that in the future, the management stabilizes a bit and we can keep the game alive without unbalancing it every time a new, disappointing unit comes out. Congratulations on your work on the channel; now that the crab droids are arriving, we all want a Crabbok-themed crab droid!
With the unblockable damage upgrades/minis, I think there is a balance taking an action or two for a chance to get that "second attack", especially against the bulk corps. Chewing through multiple units of 14 B1s is a task that takes a LOT of attacks, and giving those few act lists an outlet to remove an extra mini from the table can help a lot. But I do also see the fear of wiping a commander/operative in the early rounds. I feel like Legion has been taking steps towards more melee based combat (ARCs & Fleets with Charge, closer deployment, etc.). It's very much an adjustment to consider with list building, and playing CIS my options are very limited to Sabers or special forces, though the B2s getting so much love was greatly appreciated. But yeah, that's my observation about this new update. Great video like always!
I’ll be honest , I don’t watch much I watched for armada stuff. I don’t have much love at all for AMG at this point. I fear for legion players. It’s the last old game they took over that hasn’t yet been killed off.
Money is the first reason for putting out a product, no matter the opinion on how good or bad the game turns out to be. That last is based on inspiration and sometimes luck more than anything these days.
I don't think the marksman upgrades are consistent enough to be a concern, but that design space is definitely a concern. Bypassing rules like they do is super powerful, and they've offset it by making these upgrades way too expensive and inconsistent. So there would be a turning point where, if they made it cheaper or more consistent, it would go from basically unusable to super busted. There's never going to be a good middle ground for it to live in.
11:03 I am honestly not seeing how all marksman takes a commander first turn without your opponent helping you to this end. It would require your opponent bringing their commander before 4-6 marksman have gone and they would all need to roll a crit or surge which is exceedingly difficult 0.00625% to do it four times in a row. 12:41 I would love to go against 6 riot troopers they can’t shoot a side of a barn 118 B1s is bad don’t do it. Cover is hard to get
These "unblockable" ranged attacks seem silly to me, since like you said, we already have a mechanic for ranged shots. I wouldn't call them "unblockable" per say since there is a die rolled at some point to determine a result, unlike Force Choke. However, looking at the odds of .25 hits per action, it seems like on average taking the aim action instead of the "snipe action" is actually better statistically. Check my math because it could be wrong, but the online dice simulator is telling me 4-10 stormtroopers using this would on average gain .3 hits per attack by taking the aim action on their regular attack vs a .25 hits per "snipe action", and .4 hits per aim action if they equipped a DLT heavy instead of using a riot control unit with the sniper. You change the stormtrooper with A DLT to attacking a hero with one dodge token and surge to block and cover 2 you get .22 extra hits per attack vs the .25 hits per "snipe action." so in that case it seems to be statistically slightly better, but not much. The big benefit I suppose is unlimited range, but I don't see why they couldn't have made an unlimited range sniper with X number of red dice instead.
The idea of being able to do damage with no chance of Defense is not all that outlandish or u heard of in tabletop gaming or things like CCGs/LCGs. I think that there is just a lot of resistance/reluctance to new/changing ideas from long-time players used to a certain meta or rules.
Force choke I feel isn't as bad as it requires you to pay the tax of a force user to have it, but whilst it requires no roll it also can't be used against the most important units (Commanders and Ops). Also it can only target units at Range 1, so it is powerful and consistent but with limited targeting capabilities. The new Marksman cards are not well designed, they have a super strong effect that only requires LOS at ANY range but in exchange the chance to proc it is low (1 in 4, same as shooting with a B1) AND the upgrade card has a very high cost. So it makes the player who owns it feel bad when they miss regularly with it, and it makes the player defending against it feel bad as there is nothing they can do to prevent taking a wound when it does proc. I would never take them in game, 30pts for on average 1.25 wounds per game maximum? It's not worth it.
The marksman is a super expensive mini that has a 75% chance to be a feels bad for the user when it fizzles, and a 25% chance to be a feels bad for the defender when they can't do anything about the wound. I can see thematically why they'd do it, and gameplay-wise rebels definitely need some way to counteract red saves, but i don't think the Marksman is the solution
I think this is fine. Even having a dedicated chip damage build is more unique gimmick than anything else. Chip damage is present in most games I play and it does not unbalance anything since the damage is always minimal.
I can somewhat see, from a competitive standpoint, these mechanics not being too much of a headache in competitive play. They only do a max of one wound, it’s a 1/4 chance and such. However I’m a casual/narrative player, where my main goal is to have fun. And these guys just read as very anti fun.
I agree with all of the points and I see a few others being issues with AMG as a whole. -the new version released with no card packs and no upgrade token packs. Thats money just sitting on the table. Not everyone has access to 3d printers to solve those issues and people playing with paper range rulers and tokens makes the game look sloppy. -the stock issue and production of older minis is a huge issue for any new people trying to get into the game as well. I have a resin printer that is getting lots of use for people in our group printing proxy models that look great. Problem is those models are banned in store tournaments. Bossk is selling for $60+ CA right now on EBay which is ridiculous. I overall like the new update (minus cover), but us consumers can only truly make AMG pay attention to us by voting with our wallets. I want Legion to be successful, but I’m not going to pay high prices for units that are borderline useless and if you want 3d printers to pick up your slack then that’s what’s going to happen. Again, money left on the table.
It's the crossroads of fun new ability/rule and win at all costs play where the problems begin with "competitive" games. Is this a big deal if somebody runs it with only 1 or 2 squads? Does anyone still playtest the game?
Agreed on all points. Unblockable damage is broken, plain and simple. The new units should just add a sniper, range 5, a couple of dice, high velocity, pierce and sharpshooter 1.
Also you say there is "no defense" (which is true) but you can plan against it. If it becomes meta for these "skip wound mechanics" where lists spam them, then you counter it by taking lists with more wounds. Also, 6 riot control would be 180 points and would on average do roughly 7.5 wounds over a game. For 180 points you can do A LOT more damage with other troops/upgrades
That hypercompetitive feeling is an interesting observation. I think that comes from the power creep of new units more than other design, though. Yes, if you run commandos, you want 3 of them. But that only makes things feel competitive because that unit is abominably cheap for what it does. We are going to see the same thing with Sleeper cell - it is far and away better than other rebel offerings and folks will have to buy a bunch of the new thing to compete. But Sleeper doesn't especially want to be run as a 3-of aside from them just being better than what Rebels currently have. so yes, that is happening, but just bc the new stuff has better rules than the old stuff.
I agree with not going overboard and chasing the meta. They will find a way to address it. Just got my second unit of clone commandos but wont get a third as I expect the point cost to rise and be not worth taking 3.
I'm not sure either point holds up under close examination. Regarding special wound mechanics, you confused whether the idea behind the mechanic is a problem versus whether the way it's implemented is balanced. There's nothing wrong with avoiding defensive tech (Force Choke is thematic and sweet). What you really talked about is whether it's too good, which would lead to a negative play experience. None of your examples were remotely plausible. Six riot control squads can do an average of 1.5 unlockable damage. That's comically bad and will never be a problem. If six squads use the action every round, that's on average 30 attacks, or 7.5 would across the whole game. For point 2, it's just flat wrong. Commandos are undercoated, sure, but many other units did not follow this trend. Range Troopers, geonosians, riot control are not maxed and do not appear to be power creeping. 🤷
Not a bad counter to my points - however consider the 6x Riot Trooper example once they are already in position? They CAN still attack AND make this extra roll. Since it's only one action - it might not be as benign as you think. Especially if this type of mechanic keeps showing up.
@@Crabbok Riot Troopers are completely unplayable as ranged units. They throw 5 non-surging whites at range 3, for a total of 1.25 successes before cover and saves. Add in 0.25 wounds from the Marksman ability, and you would be spending 80 points and two actions to do less than one total wound per round? That is so spectacularly bad it defies reason. This is not a reasonable thing to be concerned about. That's why the "is this mechanic conceptually fine" is different than "is it currently balanced." I think having some attacks that bypass defensive tech is fine, and the Marksman upgrades are unplayable bad.
I'm with you on both points. Especially the second point. I don't play a lot because I don't have time and there's nowhere to play around here. So even just the rules changes are annoying. The fact that they added so many keywords is frustrating and having to consider all of those specific cards with special rules when deciding what to buy and play. On the second point, I don't have a lot of cash to throw at this game. I can, but as often as I play, it doesn't make sense to spend a lot. So do I go buy the new cards and new competitive units and more units so I can even make a 1000 point army? Or do I consider it a sunk cost and give up now?
Chances of 6 marksmen doing 6 damage to a unit in a round is 1/4096 or 0.02%. If that happens, I’ll concede. No one will do that though, because no one is dumb enough to put 6 of these units in one army.
I agree with you 💯. They did this with X- Wing. I am " Wait and see," with 2.0. Yeah, I see the cash grab with the double Corp units. I could see the nerfs you are talking about that we have both seen this even in trading with mtg.
i doubt the infantry versions will be a big issue as they are very expensive point wise and to run a list built around this mechanic would be very expensive and not very synergistic. i on occasion use din's rifle every once in a while but i would rather get him into position for another turn. as for commandos, they are in the wrong slot in my opinion, they should be special forces not support but that is the issue with releasing a half edition that doesnt balance or update all factions properly.
So the dangerous trends are standard games workshop business practices lmao. Time was I used to tell my friends that getting into warhammer was expensive and competitive and hamstrung by GWs incoherence, and that legion was a much simpler, cheaper, friendlier tabletop game to get into. Now I guess I'll direct them to marvel crisis protocol.
I don't think these are trends at all. The Riot Control Squad is pretty terrible and the sniper for them and Sleeper Cell is unplayable. Din's rifle is also borderline unplayable. They're too expensive for what they do. Commandos are going to get a points increase so taking 3 is probably going to be a thing of the past.
It sucks when they make stuff too good and you love the unit. Like CLone commandos, who doesn't want to run a max amount of them! I remember tearing up Republic commando on the xbox.
The new marksmans I think are really terrible design. At the price point they are, they are never worth bringing ever. And wouldn't be worth bringing until their points are low enough to just be an extra mini (9-15 points) but then you are not bringing them for the ability. Just the body. But if you change the ability to be better. They might become incredibly broken. There is literally no winning for this type of ability. It's just bad game design
Tbh, the points cost of heavies like the rebel marksman are going to keep them on the shelf. Now, that can change with a points update, but everyone I play the game with agrees the abilities are too random and not worth the risk. With each unit only getting 10 actions in a game (really 9 if we count deployment move), spending one of those on a rinky-dink chance of causing a wound is a trap. I legit think these heavies are bad choices by design- much like how MTG needs jank cards or how there are near worthless training upgrades.
Well yeah. Sometimes they try new builds and see how the games go... and after they see new plays they adapt the game. Lucky for me, we are no competitive play group. We love more story games.
It's actually not a good way to do damage. It's low odds and an action. I'm not planning on taking any sleeper heavies It's a wasted action on a unit that has other things to do
I agree it’s a bad mechanic, but statistically it won’t have much of impact. Min maxing is annoying but there are a lot of counters and AMG isn’t smart enough to figure those counters.
Ill be honest . This edition has really put me off of playing legion . I just dont like the direction AMG is taking it . After playing a bunch oh games with a friend we just don't like it , too much ch fussing , too many feel bad moments and they seem intent on going further down the rabbit hole . I've just gotten into bolt action at the very end of V2 and the shif to V3 feels like an improvement but for me a lot of changes to legion just feel like changes and gimmicks for their own sake just like Xwing . If you like the new version of legion then thats fine , i hope it all settles down and you have great times , but i think im pretty much done with legion
I gotta keep up with the rules lol! I didnt know they made the nee total 1000! Its crazy that they’re changing and going around core mechanics. Why bother having them if you’re not gonna improve those core mechanics. At least this is my opinion. Im also not a super big fan of the max out on a unit. That being said i do have 5 squads of b1 battle droids because i enjoyed the CIS mechanic (i dont know the name) where when one droid activates another one can and so on a so forth as long as you meet the requirements. Sorry its been a few years since ive played haha! Thanks for the great vid!!
Yeah if you could spam them it'd be bad maybe but the sniper is hot garbage and rarely hits. Definitely not going to break the game. It'd be nice if they gave it rules and points to make it valid but as is now you won't see them in competitive list.
I played with the bad batch the other day, and Hunter's ability is incredibly overpowered, as is the whole unit. I loved it and was able to force damage through on super defensive units like special forces that have nimble and low profile. All the dodges in the world can't help you. Plus it's a free action on Hunter, so it's an every turn use.
These cards will never be taken. In Empire you get 10 acts with Vader, inquisitors, djinn and 6 riot troopers; If the person wants to come onto the table at a speed 2. The characters have to come forward with no protection, and the storm troopers are going to be generally ineffective, they'll loose on objectives. As for the money thing. With how accessible the rules for the units are and 3d printing/Etsy I don't see it as a huge issue. No one at the casual level is going to care if you show up with 3dprints. Only place it may be an issue is at official tournaments, but if you are going to those I don't think money for the hobby is an issue. You can call me an asshole, but I think you might want to step back and take a breath, a lot of your legion content has been negative and it seems you have lost the wanting to see the good parts about it. Its been harder to watch the content.
My legion content has been negative? I'm curious how much you've seen. I just scrolled back over my last 10-15 Legion videos and none of them have been negative. Maybe you've missed them I'm not sure, but I've largely enjoyed the new edition and made several battle reports, hype videos, reviews, and others videos about the new edition and news. None of which has been negative. Granted this particular mechanic on the marksmen is one thing I am not a fan of.
I'll admit, I don't see your point here for three reasons. 1: We're only playing with half of the updates. Will Shick has stated multiple times that we won't have all the updates until Summer 2025 and with that would come more missions and faction specific cards. In addition to they are aware of the problem units so those will be address. The game is just at a weird states where there's new and old units competing with each other. 2: The units and ability to bypass defenses your worried about are either restricted to expensive units or are just plainly not good. Force Choke is really the only auto wound ability in the game that's actually worth it's points but in order for it to have use it you have to attach it to an expensive unit and said unit needs to get into range 1 quickly to use it. Then once it's done you either need Master of the Force to bring it up which is a limited ability or spend an action on your expensive unit to get it back again. It's a fairly balanced mechanic now and that over being nerfed twice and a game reword. For the Amban and marksmen these are straight up bad to terrible for their effects. Remember the game is 5 turns with a race to 12 VP. With the amban you're essentially giving up Mando's turn to do a speed-1 move for an auto wound that'll work 1/2 of the time. honestly not worth it and you're often better off running into a unit to smack them with it for the immobilize and three black in your melee pool. For the Marksmen these things are just straight up bad since for a point of damage you're using 28 points in rebels and 30 points in Empire for an effect that works 1/4 of the time that uses a whole action where you're better off just moving and shooting or double moving to get onto objectives. I'll agree that AMG should have made these simple guns, but not for their effects being useful. 3: Lastly this is a hobby and a game. On the hobby side of things, it being expensive is normal since hobbies are expensive. Look at the price of music equipment or Magic cards if you want to stick to games. Things do get pricy. As for the game, I find it ingenuous when people play a game where one player wins and the other loses with out optimizing and min maxing their lists. People who enjoy playing games typically like to win and in my years of playing tabletop games all the players that typically play for fun will still make adjustments and changes to their lists to make them better with each game. If the game is feeling more competitive then that's just a sign that the players are becoming more passionate in the game and are willing to learn all the eccentricities in the game. Honestly the issue with how people are playing the game is a you problem.
I hadn't picked up any commandos yet and this video reminded me of that and I came to the realization that they're pretty much sold out everywhere. That's the annoying part.
the annoying part is you wanting to bandwagon onto broken rules to copypaste scummy easymode armies, and I hope you blow a ton of cash and then they get nerfed immediately afterward
for the first point you made, i dont think its worth worrying over something thats only really a potential problem in specific spam lists. 2nd point simply dont meta chase?
If you leave your commander in line of sight of 10 enemy units that can do this, and they roll 6 25% chance rolls, then GG the opponent deserves the win
It's just a thing... For exampl,e Warhammer 40K - how many times has that changed? Not everything changes for the good, but if you have an older set, then why change it... Use what you want, how you want. Rules are made to be broken (or at least bent). House rules rule 😛
Rules will always change, causing some feel bads along the way. It is inevitable, especially in miniatures games. You take time to collect, build, and paint for todays rules. A new version comes out a few years later and suddenly your models have illegal configurations. The choices are to fix, buy new, proxy, play the old rules, or quit.
Very true. I feel that by taking a more balanced approach to your collective and army building, you are less likely to get severely impacted by those rules changes though. But that's certainly a more casual approach.
@@Crabbok I think the casual approach is the main point. All the changes really matter in the competitive scene. Casual players, ie most players, don't really have to worry. They can play at home however they like.
The thing to understand about AMG, is that they LOOOOVE to lean hard into gimmicks.
I blame the fact that their design process is essentially one person that comes up with a nonsensical build, and the rest of the design team are tasked with shoehorning that build into the system.
Yeah, not a fan of the snipers that just deal damage rather than go through the attack process
The sniper is expensive, has a 1/4 chance of making the shot, takes up an action and only removes a single wound. I don't see this being a problem for balance. That said, I also don't see the point of introducing alternative rules to wounding with weapons. They shouldn't do this.
@@Marco48375 I think if it was just Force Choke, it'd be fine.
Worst trend is just dropping a new update that isn't fully prepared, like without the real cards or units for people to buy.
They want us to play test it for them.
I'm just not a fan of AMG, and it seems like everything they touch declines into an unfun game.
My thoughts exactly.
Me and My best friend have been playing legion for about 2-3 years now and generally dislike most of the update, and we effectively devised our own version that kitbashes the rules to take the most fun from both. We only play casually, never really build competitive lists since we only play against eachother, so weve never really seen an issue regarding the ping damage but i see the concern and if they continue to advance that tech i could see the issue, and maybe its worse in official games.
I think you've given more thought to the game mechanics than AMG
As someone deathly allergic to hyper competitive play, I would much rather see big flashy abilities that are just as likely to fail, than these little guarantee pings that can get stacked up. In my opinion, more swingy gameplay = more variety of gameplay= more fun
These two abilities *are* big flashy abilities that are more likely to fail than not though? Like, they have a 75% fail chance.
Armada and X-Wing. Legion is next.
The treatment of Armada and X-Wing were why I never got into Legion. Was considering it again, the last few days, until I saw this video.
Think I'll just steer clear of Asmodee in general, anymore.
I think Legion update was generally a good thing for the hobby. 1000 points means so many list possibilities and I want to put ATST in all my lists. Also love the turn 0 and deployment. Not sure about all the changes to objectives and some units/cards feel underpowered/overcosted.
I play empire and rebels and only really play against my buddy who has GAR and CIS. Especially GAR seems to be ahead of the curve and doesnt always feel fair on the tabletop. I dont like how they did half an update and left a lot of unit profiles unchanged. I heard the rest will follow in the coming summer, but somehow im wondering if they will not "forget" some older things, especially command cards.
Feels kinda Games Workshop-esque, what you're talking about.
Everything has special rules that break other rules and we'd need new rules for just rules interactions. Spam the new units to be competitive because of power creep while old units get nerfed.
Hopefully we never go full-GW with FOMO boxes (for the upcoming hard plastic resculpts?) and paid rules.
Agree with both points. I used to run Empire fitted for range 4 shooting (Krennic, Death Troopers, Bossk, DLT Stormtroopers). The rules change made the list useless. They basically removed the aim action, because now I am forced to move, so Precise has no effect. Once I'm contesting objectives I get Charged, so no more shooting. And they nerfed Stormtrooper melee to "make room" for the Riot Squad, which costs DOUBLE points of what DLT troopers cost...
So, I have to buy three Dewbacks now to be competitive? No thanks XD. The other Empire players in my community feel the same.
@@bmzarigueya I stopped playing AMG rules, I went back to the last FFG rules set
I am a new player, just started buying stuff a few months before 2.0 and this sort of thing sucks. It seems like AMG is trying to balance the game to stop one meta but then produces another. Based on what I know, experimental droids was a meta that was nerfed by Clone Commandos and ARCs after 2.0, but now clones are OP. So riot squads are the empire's counter to Clone Commandos. Just seems like they need to maybe finish fine tunning units to make it more balanced instead of releasing more, but hey AMG wants to milk this as much as possible sadly.
A lot of commenters here saying the same thing: AMG borked the 2.0 release, and we're worried they'll kill the game like Armada and X-wing. Given that Legion and the Star Wars IP seems to be a license to print money, what are they thinking?!
I am seriously considering passing on 2nd edition. 1 was casual friendly, fun and allowed so much diversity and not make it dependant on "this season meta darling"
Same here!
Dude thank you so much for posting this, I moved to legion to get away from Warhammer esc gameplay but it seems it’s followed me
@@elchorbombon do it.
I went as far as to go back to FFG rules myself.
@@EliWintercrossagree the rules were simpler and quicker to pickup. Practice the new rules for competitive games, but use the old to get people into it.
I never moved to 2nd, the turn 0 system looks far inferior to the variety of mission, deployment and conditions I'm used to. If I wanted to play a take and hold style game I'd dust off my Necrons and have at it.
My issue with the new rule set is just how it feels, which is so dumb on my part. The new deployment makes a lot more sense if you think about it as two armies rushing to combat. It’s the go go moment in movies when all the troops run off the carrier at the start of the movie. It’s cool but I don’t want that rushed feeling in my tactical wargame. Snipers dealing auto damage is such a cool cinematic moment, like a cutscene in a game. But I want to roll my dice and maximize my game play, not spend an action to activate a cutscene.
I don’t think the rules are bad. It’s just really game for me right now. Maybe when it’s all out I will like it better.
I agree the design space of roll a die and the cause a wound and the opponent has no mechanism to prevent it. That being said the marksman upgrade costs 30 points and only has a 25% chance to causes a wound. Considering that you can almost get a storm trooper unit for that cost it doesn't seem worth it. If it comes down in cost then it could be a problem.
To the spamming of units, legion has always really been that way at least competitively.
You understand my concerns very well. The over one that i think should be mentioned is the balloning of unit to get 4 or 5 extra models. Example is the Rebel troopers. By adding a Z6 and the 5 additional members, the dice pool skyrockets to 9 black and 6 white. 15 total dice. Times that by 6 for the max core and you are rolling 90 total dice a turn (36 white and 54 black). Now you are basically wiping units off the board.
All these changes feel heavily influenced by 40K and that is not really a good thing.
Yeah but also like thematically you can take swarms of rebels, or swarms of b1s which like yeah rebels you can take 60 odd dudes but with the points your can essentially only fit 10 acts of 60 guys plus a commander and whilst that is a lot of dice it’s also not very good, like that list loses to 2 seppy AAT tanks and some B2s or any clone list. Like it’s cool thematically and you can actually bring an army which is cool and it’s not overpowered which is also nice.
I've stopped playing legion because of the half baked rules and cards they put out. AMG releasing half a game is poor form and unacceptable. They should have released the whole new edition at once. The obvious clone meta right now is unfun and very demoralizing. At least this gives me time to play other more fun games
Its saddening to see how our local playing community to starting to die off.
The new way of play seemed likes a great idea at first, but it feels difficult to play the game and the fact that we had to print our own new cards etc.
Also nerfing current units so much, instead of just brining in new units with new abilities, also has caused a lot of disruption
I just think not releasing 2.0 as a package was bad business. I have long thought AMG was making a mistake not publishing their updates as a magazine, with a subscription, to include a model or two, or inserted updates cards. Cards should be designed to simply refer to an app, so details can be updated dynamically or in reference to an updated print sheet. These folks are missing ways to make money, and build fan base because they seem unable to manage the print and cardboard aspect of their games. No, I don’t want to print out reams of paper and cut out cards every six months.
I don't want the game to be competitive. I want it to be FUN.
Yeah, but it was always planned to be competetiv
@TheGermy23685 so unplan it
@@TheGermy23685 you'll never be "competitive"
7:27 I think commandos are the poster child for the balance problem we're having right now. Commandos are so good that taking anything else is kind of silly competetively, so other solid to really good units just won't see any play. Clone AT-RTs are, like, really good in a vaccuum. But for anywhere from 10 more to 5 less points, why wouldn't you just use your support spot for commandos?
I do like to use the rules framework consistently and avoid special casing - but it’s hard for me imagine that many people will even breakout the riot control squad. No one in my local store uses riot control squad, even though people are buying them to paint.
I could see mechanics like this becoming problematic in the future if the units that have these special case rules become more popular.
I totally agree with you on both these trends. The first one breaks too many rules and opens up to so many mean combos like attacking twice with the same miniature or sniping and stand by. All of these is totally out of the game logic and doesn't describe anything that special, i mean they are snipers, why just dont make them heavy weapons as usual snipers? I completely agree with you on the second trend, the one about units developed to be spammed. I’d also like to add that this transition phase, while necessary and generally positive in terms of rules, seems to be managed chaotically, with new and old cards mixed together, extreme delays in releases, and a general sense of complacency. I hope that in the future, the management stabilizes a bit and we can keep the game alive without unbalancing it every time a new, disappointing unit comes out. Congratulations on your work on the channel; now that the crab droids are arriving, we all want a Crabbok-themed crab droid!
With the unblockable damage upgrades/minis, I think there is a balance taking an action or two for a chance to get that "second attack", especially against the bulk corps. Chewing through multiple units of 14 B1s is a task that takes a LOT of attacks, and giving those few act lists an outlet to remove an extra mini from the table can help a lot. But I do also see the fear of wiping a commander/operative in the early rounds.
I feel like Legion has been taking steps towards more melee based combat (ARCs & Fleets with Charge, closer deployment, etc.). It's very much an adjustment to consider with list building, and playing CIS my options are very limited to Sabers or special forces, though the B2s getting so much love was greatly appreciated.
But yeah, that's my observation about this new update. Great video like always!
I’ll be honest , I don’t watch much I watched for armada stuff. I don’t have much love at all for AMG at this point. I fear for legion players. It’s the last old game they took over that hasn’t yet been killed off.
I completly agree. I really don't like how AMG is handling this game. I think they destroyed it with the new edition.
Money is the first reason for putting out a product, no matter the opinion on how good or bad the game turns out to be. That last is based on inspiration and sometimes luck more than anything these days.
Great thoughts/video
Thank you for brining this up
Are we just going back to pink suns but empire this time
I don't think the marksman upgrades are consistent enough to be a concern, but that design space is definitely a concern. Bypassing rules like they do is super powerful, and they've offset it by making these upgrades way too expensive and inconsistent. So there would be a turning point where, if they made it cheaper or more consistent, it would go from basically unusable to super busted. There's never going to be a good middle ground for it to live in.
11:03 I am honestly not seeing how all marksman takes a commander first turn without your opponent helping you to this end.
It would require your opponent bringing their commander before 4-6 marksman have gone and they would all need to roll a crit or surge which is exceedingly difficult 0.00625% to do it four times in a row.
12:41 I would love to go against 6 riot troopers they can’t shoot a side of a barn
118 B1s is bad don’t do it. Cover is hard to get
These "unblockable" ranged attacks seem silly to me, since like you said, we already have a mechanic for ranged shots. I wouldn't call them "unblockable" per say since there is a die rolled at some point to determine a result, unlike Force Choke.
However, looking at the odds of .25 hits per action, it seems like on average taking the aim action instead of the "snipe action" is actually better statistically. Check my math because it could be wrong, but the online dice simulator is telling me 4-10 stormtroopers using this would on average gain .3 hits per attack by taking the aim action on their regular attack vs a .25 hits per "snipe action", and .4 hits per aim action if they equipped a DLT heavy instead of using a riot control unit with the sniper.
You change the stormtrooper with A DLT to attacking a hero with one dodge token and surge to block and cover 2 you get .22 extra hits per attack vs the .25 hits per "snipe action." so in that case it seems to be statistically slightly better, but not much.
The big benefit I suppose is unlimited range, but I don't see why they couldn't have made an unlimited range sniper with X number of red dice instead.
I don't think it is game breaking but the worst part may be adding an unnecessary game mechanic that will be one more thing for people to remember
@@mattlberge snipers used to be unlimited range when first released, then they changed it because it was so powerful
Its basically 25% chance to get unblockable damage. Not sure thats worth 30 points, but i like the point about ganging up with it
The idea of being able to do damage with no chance of Defense is not all that outlandish or u heard of in tabletop gaming or things like CCGs/LCGs. I think that there is just a lot of resistance/reluctance to new/changing ideas from long-time players used to a certain meta or rules.
Force choke I feel isn't as bad as it requires you to pay the tax of a force user to have it, but whilst it requires no roll it also can't be used against the most important units (Commanders and Ops). Also it can only target units at Range 1, so it is powerful and consistent but with limited targeting capabilities.
The new Marksman cards are not well designed, they have a super strong effect that only requires LOS at ANY range but in exchange the chance to proc it is low (1 in 4, same as shooting with a B1) AND the upgrade card has a very high cost. So it makes the player who owns it feel bad when they miss regularly with it, and it makes the player defending against it feel bad as there is nothing they can do to prevent taking a wound when it does proc.
I would never take them in game, 30pts for on average 1.25 wounds per game maximum? It's not worth it.
The marksman is a super expensive mini that has a 75% chance to be a feels bad for the user when it fizzles, and a 25% chance to be a feels bad for the defender when they can't do anything about the wound. I can see thematically why they'd do it, and gameplay-wise rebels definitely need some way to counteract red saves, but i don't think the Marksman is the solution
I think this is fine. Even having a dedicated chip damage build is more unique gimmick than anything else. Chip damage is present in most games I play and it does not unbalance anything since the damage is always minimal.
I can somewhat see, from a competitive standpoint, these mechanics not being too much of a headache in competitive play. They only do a max of one wound, it’s a 1/4 chance and such.
However I’m a casual/narrative player, where my main goal is to have fun. And these guys just read as very anti fun.
I agree with all of the points and I see a few others being issues with AMG as a whole.
-the new version released with no card packs and no upgrade token packs. Thats money just sitting on the table. Not everyone has access to 3d printers to solve those issues and people playing with paper range rulers and tokens makes the game look sloppy.
-the stock issue and production of older minis is a huge issue for any new people trying to get into the game as well. I have a resin printer that is getting lots of use for people in our group printing proxy models that look great. Problem is those models are banned in store tournaments. Bossk is selling for $60+ CA right now on EBay which is ridiculous.
I overall like the new update (minus cover), but us consumers can only truly make AMG pay attention to us by voting with our wallets. I want Legion to be successful, but I’m not going to pay high prices for units that are borderline useless and if you want 3d printers to pick up your slack then that’s what’s going to happen. Again, money left on the table.
Nice, question, is there any valiable list of all units and factions ?
So if I have phase 1 or phase 2 clones are they now just clone infantry?
It's the crossroads of fun new ability/rule and win at all costs play where the problems begin with "competitive" games.
Is this a big deal if somebody runs it with only 1 or 2 squads?
Does anyone still playtest the game?
Looking forward to the second part of the update.
This is what I found with collectible card games. I love GAR but yeah, GAR is too powerful. Commandos should never had been allowed in 501st.
Agreed on all points. Unblockable damage is broken, plain and simple. The new units should just add a sniper, range 5, a couple of dice, high velocity, pierce and sharpshooter 1.
Also you say there is "no defense" (which is true) but you can plan against it. If it becomes meta for these "skip wound mechanics" where lists spam them, then you counter it by taking lists with more wounds.
Also, 6 riot control would be 180 points and would on average do roughly 7.5 wounds over a game. For 180 points you can do A LOT more damage with other troops/upgrades
That hypercompetitive feeling is an interesting observation. I think that comes from the power creep of new units more than other design, though. Yes, if you run commandos, you want 3 of them. But that only makes things feel competitive because that unit is abominably cheap for what it does. We are going to see the same thing with Sleeper cell - it is far and away better than other rebel offerings and folks will have to buy a bunch of the new thing to compete. But Sleeper doesn't especially want to be run as a 3-of aside from them just being better than what Rebels currently have.
so yes, that is happening, but just bc the new stuff has better rules than the old stuff.
I think this is just something that will always gonna happen with any sort of "living and expanding" games.
Thanks for the vid. Good stuff to think about
I agree with not going overboard and chasing the meta. They will find a way to address it. Just got my second unit of clone commandos but wont get a third as I expect the point cost to rise and be not worth taking 3.
I'm not sure either point holds up under close examination. Regarding special wound mechanics, you confused whether the idea behind the mechanic is a problem versus whether the way it's implemented is balanced. There's nothing wrong with avoiding defensive tech (Force Choke is thematic and sweet). What you really talked about is whether it's too good, which would lead to a negative play experience. None of your examples were remotely plausible. Six riot control squads can do an average of 1.5 unlockable damage. That's comically bad and will never be a problem. If six squads use the action every round, that's on average 30 attacks, or 7.5 would across the whole game.
For point 2, it's just flat wrong. Commandos are undercoated, sure, but many other units did not follow this trend. Range Troopers, geonosians, riot control are not maxed and do not appear to be power creeping. 🤷
Not a bad counter to my points - however consider the 6x Riot Trooper example once they are already in position? They CAN still attack AND make this extra roll. Since it's only one action - it might not be as benign as you think. Especially if this type of mechanic keeps showing up.
@@Crabbok Riot Troopers are completely unplayable as ranged units. They throw 5 non-surging whites at range 3, for a total of 1.25 successes before cover and saves. Add in 0.25 wounds from the Marksman ability, and you would be spending 80 points and two actions to do less than one total wound per round? That is so spectacularly bad it defies reason. This is not a reasonable thing to be concerned about. That's why the "is this mechanic conceptually fine" is different than "is it currently balanced." I think having some attacks that bypass defensive tech is fine, and the Marksman upgrades are unplayable bad.
100% agree ! That’s just bad trends 😥
I'm with you on both points. Especially the second point. I don't play a lot because I don't have time and there's nowhere to play around here. So even just the rules changes are annoying. The fact that they added so many keywords is frustrating and having to consider all of those specific cards with special rules when deciding what to buy and play. On the second point, I don't have a lot of cash to throw at this game. I can, but as often as I play, it doesn't make sense to spend a lot. So do I go buy the new cards and new competitive units and more units so I can even make a 1000 point army? Or do I consider it a sunk cost and give up now?
Chances of 6 marksmen doing 6 damage to a unit in a round is 1/4096 or 0.02%. If that happens, I’ll concede. No one will do that though, because no one is dumb enough to put 6 of these units in one army.
I agree with you 💯. They did this with X- Wing. I am " Wait and see," with 2.0. Yeah, I see the cash grab with the double Corp units. I could see the nerfs you are talking about that we have both seen this even in trading with mtg.
i doubt the infantry versions will be a big issue as they are very expensive point wise and to run a list built around this mechanic would be very expensive and not very synergistic. i on occasion use din's rifle every once in a while but i would rather get him into position for another turn. as for commandos, they are in the wrong slot in my opinion, they should be special forces not support but that is the issue with releasing a half edition that doesnt balance or update all factions properly.
They need to make you a play tester for AMG
I don't think AMG would ever allow that to happen.
I've used Darth Vader a number of times, however never used Force Choke. Too many restrictions.
So the dangerous trends are standard games workshop business practices lmao. Time was I used to tell my friends that getting into warhammer was expensive and competitive and hamstrung by GWs incoherence, and that legion was a much simpler, cheaper, friendlier tabletop game to get into. Now I guess I'll direct them to marvel crisis protocol.
I don't think these are trends at all. The Riot Control Squad is pretty terrible and the sniper for them and Sleeper Cell is unplayable. Din's rifle is also borderline unplayable. They're too expensive for what they do. Commandos are going to get a points increase so taking 3 is probably going to be a thing of the past.
Not a fan of "2.0". AMG is fumbling the ball on a great game!
It sucks when they make stuff too good and you love the unit. Like CLone commandos, who doesn't want to run a max amount of them! I remember tearing up Republic commando on the xbox.
The new marksmans I think are really terrible design. At the price point they are, they are never worth bringing ever. And wouldn't be worth bringing until their points are low enough to just be an extra mini (9-15 points) but then you are not bringing them for the ability. Just the body. But if you change the ability to be better. They might become incredibly broken. There is literally no winning for this type of ability. It's just bad game design
What worries me is that no matter what changes they make it is always GAR that seems to be the Meta. So tired of fighting Anakin 501st.
Tbh, the points cost of heavies like the rebel marksman are going to keep them on the shelf. Now, that can change with a points update, but everyone I play the game with agrees the abilities are too random and not worth the risk. With each unit only getting 10 actions in a game (really 9 if we count deployment move), spending one of those on a rinky-dink chance of causing a wound is a trap.
I legit think these heavies are bad choices by design- much like how MTG needs jank cards or how there are near worthless training upgrades.
Well yeah. Sometimes they try new builds and see how the games go... and after they see new plays they adapt the game. Lucky for me, we are no competitive play group. We love more story games.
Everything AMG has done has been horrible. I’ve stopped playing because of their changes, and focus on cash grabs for the maxing of new units.
True, SWL is gets more an more to 40k an Gamesworkshop. Because of that I sold all.
I stayed with 1st edition and never made the move over.
It's actually not a good way to do damage.
It's low odds and an action.
I'm not planning on taking any sleeper heavies
It's a wasted action on a unit that has other things to do
I agree it’s a bad mechanic, but statistically it won’t have much of impact. Min maxing is annoying but there are a lot of counters and AMG isn’t smart enough to figure those counters.
Ill be honest . This edition has really put me off of playing legion . I just dont like the direction AMG is taking it . After playing a bunch oh games with a friend we just don't like it , too much ch fussing , too many feel bad moments and they seem intent on going further down the rabbit hole . I've just gotten into bolt action at the very end of V2 and the shif to V3 feels like an improvement but for me a lot of changes to legion just feel like changes and gimmicks for their own sake just like Xwing . If you like the new version of legion then thats fine , i hope it all settles down and you have great times , but i think im pretty much done with legion
Overall u liked the cover and points change
Not a fan of the new deployment/objectives
Even though Bad Batch is pricey for this, but i dont hear complaints about Hunter
I mean, I don’t even like this new edition, it should never come out sadly…
It seems like force choke should be buffed.
Agree with everything!
I completely agree, chief bossman
Don't like the sniper as it also takes an action
Is new sniper, is perfect for killing clone commando....😅
I gotta keep up with the rules lol! I didnt know they made the nee total 1000!
Its crazy that they’re changing and going around core mechanics. Why bother having them if you’re not gonna improve those core mechanics. At least this is my opinion.
Im also not a super big fan of the max out on a unit. That being said i do have 5 squads of b1 battle droids because i enjoyed the CIS mechanic (i dont know the name) where when one droid activates another one can and so on a so forth as long as you meet the requirements.
Sorry its been a few years since ive played haha! Thanks for the great vid!!
Yeah like how they nerfed Dark Troopers (not that they shouldn’t have 😂)
Yeah if you could spam them it'd be bad maybe but the sniper is hot garbage and rarely hits. Definitely not going to break the game. It'd be nice if they gave it rules and points to make it valid but as is now you won't see them in competitive list.
I agree, is the warhammer syndrome
21:00 AMG or Fantasy Flight has never made a scenario where you can’t field as many units. This is fear mongering.
nope
I played with the bad batch the other day, and Hunter's ability is incredibly overpowered, as is the whole unit. I loved it and was able to force damage through on super defensive units like special forces that have nimble and low profile.
All the dodges in the world can't help you. Plus it's a free action on Hunter, so it's an every turn use.
These cards will never be taken. In Empire you get 10 acts with Vader, inquisitors, djinn and 6 riot troopers; If the person wants to come onto the table at a speed 2. The characters have to come forward with no protection, and the storm troopers are going to be generally ineffective, they'll loose on objectives.
As for the money thing. With how accessible the rules for the units are and 3d printing/Etsy I don't see it as a huge issue. No one at the casual level is going to care if you show up with 3dprints. Only place it may be an issue is at official tournaments, but if you are going to those I don't think money for the hobby is an issue.
You can call me an asshole, but I think you might want to step back and take a breath, a lot of your legion content has been negative and it seems you have lost the wanting to see the good parts about it. Its been harder to watch the content.
My legion content has been negative? I'm curious how much you've seen. I just scrolled back over my last 10-15 Legion videos and none of them have been negative. Maybe you've missed them I'm not sure, but I've largely enjoyed the new edition and made several battle reports, hype videos, reviews, and others videos about the new edition and news. None of which has been negative. Granted this particular mechanic on the marksmen is one thing I am not a fan of.
New changes and trends are fun. I like rules that bypass others, add variety and keeps things fresh
I'll admit, I don't see your point here for three reasons.
1: We're only playing with half of the updates. Will Shick has stated multiple times that we won't have all the updates until Summer 2025 and with that would come more missions and faction specific cards. In addition to they are aware of the problem units so those will be address. The game is just at a weird states where there's new and old units competing with each other.
2: The units and ability to bypass defenses your worried about are either restricted to expensive units or are just plainly not good. Force Choke is really the only auto wound ability in the game that's actually worth it's points but in order for it to have use it you have to attach it to an expensive unit and said unit needs to get into range 1 quickly to use it. Then once it's done you either need Master of the Force to bring it up which is a limited ability or spend an action on your expensive unit to get it back again. It's a fairly balanced mechanic now and that over being nerfed twice and a game reword.
For the Amban and marksmen these are straight up bad to terrible for their effects. Remember the game is 5 turns with a race to 12 VP. With the amban you're essentially giving up Mando's turn to do a speed-1 move for an auto wound that'll work 1/2 of the time. honestly not worth it and you're often better off running into a unit to smack them with it for the immobilize and three black in your melee pool. For the Marksmen these things are just straight up bad since for a point of damage you're using 28 points in rebels and 30 points in Empire for an effect that works 1/4 of the time that uses a whole action where you're better off just moving and shooting or double moving to get onto objectives. I'll agree that AMG should have made these simple guns, but not for their effects being useful.
3: Lastly this is a hobby and a game. On the hobby side of things, it being expensive is normal since hobbies are expensive. Look at the price of music equipment or Magic cards if you want to stick to games. Things do get pricy. As for the game, I find it ingenuous when people play a game where one player wins and the other loses with out optimizing and min maxing their lists. People who enjoy playing games typically like to win and in my years of playing tabletop games all the players that typically play for fun will still make adjustments and changes to their lists to make them better with each game. If the game is feeling more competitive then that's just a sign that the players are becoming more passionate in the game and are willing to learn all the eccentricities in the game. Honestly the issue with how people are playing the game is a you problem.
caring about winning is a you problem, in fact, and very juvenile and puerile
I hadn't picked up any commandos yet and this video reminded me of that and I came to the realization that they're pretty much sold out everywhere. That's the annoying part.
the annoying part is you wanting to bandwagon onto broken rules to copypaste scummy easymode armies, and I hope you blow a ton of cash and then they get nerfed immediately afterward
for the first point you made, i dont think its worth worrying over something thats only really a potential problem in specific spam lists. 2nd point simply dont meta chase?
If you leave your commander in line of sight of 10 enemy units that can do this, and they roll 6 25% chance rolls, then GG the opponent deserves the win
You dont have a say in whether I have LoS to your commander
Thinking about Legion now…
I have to try that 11 acts list lol :))
All though you'll have just Force Choke and those 6 Riots with Marksman as upgrades and that's it
I say hold out for Adepticon. I think all this will be cleared up then.
It's just a thing... For exampl,e Warhammer 40K - how many times has that changed? Not everything changes for the good, but if you have an older set, then why change it... Use what you want, how you want. Rules are made to be broken (or at least bent). House rules rule 😛
Disturbing in force :)
Rules will always change, causing some feel bads along the way. It is inevitable, especially in miniatures games. You take time to collect, build, and paint for todays rules. A new version comes out a few years later and suddenly your models have illegal configurations. The choices are to fix, buy new, proxy, play the old rules, or quit.
Very true. I feel that by taking a more balanced approach to your collective and army building, you are less likely to get severely impacted by those rules changes though. But that's certainly a more casual approach.
@@Crabbok I think the casual approach is the main point. All the changes really matter in the competitive scene. Casual players, ie most players, don't really have to worry. They can play at home however they like.
@@Crabbok It's the most dedicated approach
Am I first?
You are, I wanted to wait and see what the trends are before commenting.
Speaking of bad trends...
Yes my friend, indeed you are the First One.