That note that the Sequel Trilogy treats the Force as an Abrahamic thing while old school force worked as a kind of Eastern philosophy (although shifting between more Buddhist leaning and more Daoist leaning) is like, the single biggest brain take on how it's changed post-Disney and you did it in like 3 paragraphs. That's incredible, well done.
Its really eye opening as to why so many people find the new version of the force boring. Because it literally is "Jesus loves you", just Jesus is pronounced "The force". Sad really.
@@halliwedgethat's just your cultural bias. A lot of fantasy Japanese animes are influenced by Christianity because Christianity is seen as "exotic". Tibetan Buddhist monks are fascinated by Immanuel Kant's Critique Of Pure Reason for similar reasons. American culture is at least somewhat familiar with Christianity so it's not as "exciting".
I unironically said wow out loud after finishing the video. I learned more about Star Wars lore, the production history and a better breakdown for each era's interpretations of the Force mechanics in a 30 minute video than I have after watching literal documentaries. Great job
You might be the perfect Star Wars content creator. Your takes are educated, thorough, and truly encompassing of all aspects of a very large franchise. It's refreshing to see.
Meanwhile, the quote "That's Not How the Force Works" is a common tag on AO3, especially in fics that do things that are uncommon or just not done in canon. Chief amongst these things is time travel. I respect that Canon avoids time travel, and I feel that avoidance means fanfic can play with it as much as any writer wants.
The dark side being known as Bogan gives me a fun mental picture. This dark lord with a lightsaber but also necking a VB, wearing a vest with a Holden tattoo.
this is one of the most thoughtful pieces of analysis on the Star Wars franchise I've seen on this platform that isn't just some guy making the 470 millionth imitation of the RedLetterMedia Episode 1 video, the fact that this only has 15K views should be illegal
9:50 The part about the two sides of force using living beings to wage war against eachother is something Obsidian, the developers of KOTOR 2, came up with independantly, and the game's story is one of my favorites of all time. Great minds think alike?
I never really viewed the situation like this. Going by what George was trying to do with the Sequels, it seems a lot more like one massive organism (the Force) made up of infinite numbers of smallers organisms (every living being) trying to cut out a cancer (the Dark Side) using some form of anti-bodies (the Whills) to ensure that it remains strong and healthy (balance to the Force). That's what makes the most sense to me, anyway.
This is astounding! This is well researched and gives a great insight to how the audience and the creator perceives a concept, and how that conception will evolve over time. Fascinating!!
The netherworld and the idea of delaying someone's death at it's door for the sake of redeeming them goes so hard, especially considering it would have been yoda and he was part lf the group that failed Anakin
I am noting how a lot of the early names were recycled later on - the Whills, Ashla and Bogan, Bendu, kyber crystals - names that all got used as deep Jedi lore.
I don't know why this video dosen't have more views, this channel is so underrated, few videos, I just came after the video "How bad movies are made, feat. The Rise of Skywalker" and I loved it, it was the most detailed explanation about how Rise of Skywalker was developed, it's interesting to know about the first drafts of George Lucas, there are some interesting storires right ther, Lucas surely had a strange but great imagination, I like how yo used The Planets suite by Gustav Holst as background music (along with John Williams' score), knowing it's influence on the Star Wars music.
There’s some really interesting ideas in Lucas’ first drafts of the OT, but I do agree that making someone’s fall to the dark side a result of external entities really robs them of having much agency.
@@oldylad you’re robbing him of agency and making him a boring character. Palpatine may have manipulated anakin but at the end of the day he chose to do the evil things he did. Palpatine didn’t force him to k!ll the younglings, he chose that himself.
really appreciate the thinking of each trilogy and how they interpret the force, i did prefer the prequel trilogy since it made it more tangible, there was at least something that can explain it but not everything. i still hate the sequel trilogy having so many different writers and 2 directors changing things up just made it a mess and i have no idea where J.J. got the idea to have rey and kylo teleport lightsabers behind their back.
Absolutely fantastic analysis. I'm working on my own video analyzing the Buddhist and Taoist influences on the concept of the Force, and your work here is seriously helpful in discerning some of the ideas I had previously thought contradictory, now I know are elements from different drafts and such.
Small details that are also interesting. Kyber crystals as a magical artefact that enhences the power of a force user does show up in 1878' Splinter of the mind eye, the second star wars novel ever after the novelisation of the first film. Which was originaly meant as a potential outline for the sequel. The kyber crystal there allowed Luke to channel the ghost of Ben Kenobi, a way similar to how Rey does all of the jedi in rise of skywalker. The grey jedi idea of using both side of the force is present in the 2011's Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan novel, in which the protagonist, Revan from the KoToR game explicity gets a power up by using both side of the forc at once once he gets back all his memories. The most explicit showing of that concept of using both side of the force as one however come in the 2012's Dawn of the Jedi comic series and novel, where it's established that the first ever Jedi, than called Je'daii used both side of the force in harmony, it an unbalance in either side resulting in a trip to one of two moons, named Ashla and Bogan after Lucas original name for the different side of the force, to correct said unbalance. Both those exemple come from near the end of the original EU (beside the old republic MMO which is still receiving story updates to this day), and show that the franchise was moving toward an interpretation of both sides of the forces being natural part of the universe.
late, and massively paraphrasing the work done by Noah Caldwell-Gervais in their essays on KOTOR, but: a lot of Lucas's loose repurposing of misc. Buddhist thought is a retranslation of Joseph Conrad's The Hero with a Thousand Faces, which itself uses a reductive, Freud-filtered scaffold of Hindu and Buddhist religions.
Dude I don't know why this video doesn't have as many or even more views than your other videos. Great job! I've watched some stuff from your channel already and so far this is my favourite one!
The concept was thrown out for a good reason imo. Storytelling wise it cheapens any sacrifice, and the fact that they didn’t confirm that it was gone for good means it could happen again at any point. It was likely removed from the OT because it implies that ANY Jedi who knows how can just… avoid dying. That removes a lot of tension
Don Obi JUAN Kenobi, haha. Just goes to show that if you like something, and are trying to creating something yourself.. just iterate on those things you hold dear, until it is acceptably different. EDIT: Great video! I appreciate the ample investigation and documentation of the basis, accepted idioms, and nonsense that should have stayed hidden instead of muddling a good initial trilogy! Giving more is almost never good.. at least when everyone does with it whatever they want. Oh, and the whole bible comparison for the latest was eye-opening!
I loved this look into the history. It's fascinating how many times Lucas reworked the system, but kept trying to add a ton of systemic detail which only ever informed the writing rather than making it into the final text. It definitely makes sense that a lot of other writers extrapolated-out from on-screen stuff, even when the behind-the-scenes documents said they were unique occurrences. I like how many names and concepts were there from the very start too, like Mace Windu or the crystals (albeit with a different function). I definitely don't like the whole "charge up regularly through the crystal!" angle in those early drafts, though. So I'm glad that got changed. I also find it really interesting how (according to that Wikia screenshot, anyway) apparently just going against the Jedi Council makes one a "grey" Jedi even if you don't use any "dark side" abilities. I always viewed the Council as amoral and corrupt, with Qui-Gonn (and later Obi-Wan and Yoda) being the only true follower of the ideals of the Jedi/the Force. But then I never liked the idea that certain abilities (ie lightning) required a certain affiliation either, just because Yoda and the Emperor had unique moves. I was definitely always on the side of what you do with the power mattering more than the power itself, and that other people with other agendas must've learnt them too in the entire history of the setting. And I must admit I was always on the side of "eliminating the dark side is a nonsense", largely because of other influences like taoism and buddhism. You make a compelling case for the "give an inch and it'll take a million miles" argument at the end though, as there's definitely aspects of the world I think that about (like political reactionaries, who will never be satisfied).
You should read SUPERNATURAL ENCOUNTERS by Joe Bongiorno. I think you'd find it interesting. His interpretation of how the cosmic Star Wars universe and the Cosmic Force works and how it all ties together is pretty insane but fascinating too.
Guys, let's be honest here: the Force works however the plot needs it to work. It is not a "magic system." It is a plot device. That has always been the case, whether we want to admit it or not...
@@822I79I I did watch the video. And, with respect, the video is wrong. The "rules" and "mechanics" of the Force have changed multiple times throughout the various Star Wars media. I have seen films where the skill of telekinesis was absurdly hard and required at least some prior training (ex. "Empire Strikes Back"), and media where it was something Force-sensitive children could naturally do without any prior knowledge (ex. "The Clone Wars" tv show, "The Old Republic" MMORPG). I have seen movies which clearly stated certain Force abilities were surefire paths to the Dark Side (ex. the prequel films), and games which clearly stated that no particular abilities were "Dark Side" or "Light Side" (ex. the Dark Forces series). I have read novels and comics that implied the Force was so powerful that it could literally destroy suns and create black holes, and seen movies where Jedi were rendered helpless by a door. Hell, even Lucas has admitted the entire way he conceived of the Force "working" changed between "A New Hope" and "The Empire Strikes Back," saying the original version of it was like a "yoga" that anyone could learn. The Force is a plot device that works however a given story NEEDS it to work, and pretending otherwise is just ridiculous...
Excellent video. One thing that it seems you missed. The idea of midi-chlorians was not new, just people don't know that. It is explained in the Rinzler book, The Making of Star Wars - The Definitive Story Behind the Original Film. "The Force gives you the power to have extrasensory perception and to be able to see things and hear things, read minds and levitate things. It is said that certain creatures are born with a higher awareness of the Force than humans. Their brains are different; they have more midi-chlorians in their cells." This quote is from the book's Deluxe Edition Bonus Material section: The Force
The amount of research you did to make this video is impressive. I really enjoy your objective point of view. You don't make any judgement and let the viewer decide. FYI I am personally not ok with Disney not following the original writer ideas. Avengers endgame was good because I believe Disney did not change marvel studio original plan. Unfortunately Star wars did not get that chance. I am still trying to find excuses to Disney so I can enjoy star wars again, but I am not there yet 😢
That one single point about Kylo being temped by the light side as other are tempted by the dark side was deeper and more perfound than the entire trilogy....
The force being contained in the stomach is actually accurate. Anyone knows anything about chi/Ki will thell you that there is an energy center in the middle of your body (basically where the stomach is) called the dantian or "sea of chi". Tapping into this energy center and getting your energy to flow through your body is the first step in learning how to control and manipulate it. There's a meditation technique called the Mu No Hado which allows you to do just that.
The force is simply a mystical field of energy which binds and controls all things in the world. The vast majority of organisms cannot even perceive of it. Some organisms however, are gifted, and can perceive of it and manipulate it. Not just anyone can become a Jedi/Sith. You either have it or you don’t. When it comes to the “dark side vs light side” that’s simply a description of the individuals actions. That’s always been my interpretation of it.
This idea of Qui Gonn being a grey jedi I don't believe for a second. He was always on the light side. He just didn't buy into the politics of the Jedi Council, rather he followed the will of the force. He may have been able to tap into using dark side powers for his advantage in battle but that doesn't make him a grey jedi. He was just as quickly able to control his powers and bring himself back into the light side. But personally I'm not a believer of grey jedi. You're either dark or light. As Yoda said, "Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you it will."
Keep in mind that "Grey Jedi" was coined as a term referring to a Jedi who doesn't follow the written code to the absolute letter or always defer to the council. It did NOT refer to a Jedi who straddles the line between light and dark, that came with further media and different authors. The latter definition even seems like it could be some sort of in-universe invention to try and make Jedi who don't kowtow sound like dangerous renegades who may turn at a moment's notice. Frankly, that particular line of Yoda's is disproved by the entire plot of RotJ, where the only reason the heroes win at all is because Luke rejects Obi-Wan and Yoda's advice to kill Vader, which is what redeems Anakin and defeats the Emperor in the end. This notion of there being no going back from the dark side is also refuted by Asajj Ventress being able to peace out, as well as Anakin himself slaughtering an entire village in AotC, 100% an act of malicious retribution, and yet bringing himself back for a few more years.
i think qui-gon as a grey jedi doesn’t fit the version of grey jedi where they’re stuck between the dark side and the light side, but i think he does fit in the new dominant canon idea of a grey jedi with Ahsoka as a light side force user who does not agree with the institution of the jedi. A protestant follower of the light side of the force if you will.
@@cultofsucc5807 The Force, as envisioned in Lucas's mind, was based on Buddhist principles. Not Christian, hence why EmpireWreckers, the maker of this video notes this change in JJ Abram's force becoming more "Christian."
@@MalevolentSpirit234 sure but the Star Wars universe contains many Abrahmic and Jude’s Christian parallels and tropes and yes Buddhist philosophies as well. He was a geek beleive it or not and lots of historical and religious parallels seeped into Star Wars,I mean litterly Anakin is called the chosen one and is born from a virgin mother in the d e s e r t, some not so subtle references in my mind. Aswell as the idea of “falling” to the dark side resembles the ancient Adam and Eve story, but it also contains many Buddhist references especially when it comes to the original trilogy. But to say that JJ abrams is exclusively responsible for this is not true.
@@cultofsucc5807Yes, I agree. I’m disappointed in this video creator’s willingness to steamroll over this layer of nuance just to squeeze in a “lol sequels bad” jab to appease RUclips commenters’ insatiable bloodlust.
The earlier part of this video is another pointer to me that art is often a lot bigger than the artist themselves. Lucas' original intentions of the force were actually pretty weak and unoriginal. Whereas viewing the finished product without Lucas' glasses, fans see it in a lot fresher (and imo better) way. It's exactly like Ridley Scott and Blade Runner. That film's ending was masterfully ambiguous into whether Deckard was a replicant or not - it gives the film so much meaning, that we'll never know and that it shouldn't matter. He still feels emotions regardless. However then goes Ridley spilling his big mouth and trying to tell us that Deckard is a human, completely ruining the point of the film. Obviously as viewers we choose to completely ignore Ridley, the same can be applied to Lucas and Star Wars. Midiclorians are forgettable and are one of the few things I don't consider 'canon'. George is also very well known for his changes to small things whenever Star Wars is re-release. "Han shot first". Also just before anyone jumps down my throat, this *does not* take away from these directors' incredible work. Without them none of this would exist to be enjoyed. But we should also be thankful they don't get their way all of the time.
The force wasn’t the Jesus and accepting of the lord and savior crap. It was about Rey accepting her path as a Jedi, and the force was merely the part of nature that pushed her toward that path, and learning to trust and believe in it rather than run away from it. The ancient texts were also from Jedi and their interpretation of the force and not the force itself. If anything the sequels, at least the first two brought the force back to basics.
What is the force? Where the Aliens come from? Questions that shouldn't be answered. If I think about it only Rey make sense. Using the force as a reflex. This also explain why sometimes the Jedi forget that they can use it. Believers of the Unified Field. I think that "theory" would be good enough explanation.
"What is the force?" Well, Obi-Wan explained that to us all the way back in A New Hope, so maybe it'd be a good idea to refresh on that. "Where the Aliens come from?" They evolved from various species on various planets, just like humans. It's not that difficult to discern.
For me the force will always be mystical and Grey Jedi will always be a thing. Love your in-depth video on the force! Hope more Star Wars videos will come in time!
The best answer/the most bs answer my fellow students and I would use in our philosophy class would be “It Depends”. I also feel that is perfect for defining how the force “works”.
Honestly it's a shame people label Lucas a "mastermind of creativity"--it limits Star Wars' ability to evolve. Lucas wasn't a master inventor, but a master _curator._ The strength was always in how Star Wars can draw on any disparate mythology and tradition, and make them all play nice with each other in an approachable, relatable context.
when on mushrooms watching empire i had an interpretation of the dark side being hedonistic stuff like drugs. now this is just how i felt after getting off opiods but i like to think anyone can have their own perception of the force and star wars
I really wish the thing about the whils (or however you spell it) was made cannon. Mysterious godlike forces that use the jedi and sith like chess pieces to fight their Star Wars for them.
Amazing analysis! Great attention to music for each section :) Even that Dagobah piece they used heavily in Jedi Academy :) The biggest problem with the Force concept is the content surrounding the main films, as you can keep it vague only so long before fans want to know more, and you inevitably forced in the territory where you have to be specific about the mechanics of it all, thus, disappointing certain groups of "believers" XDD The midichlorian concept is really sloppy device to confirm the status of being a "chosen one". Last time Yoda's word was taken for granted...
Personally I hate what the clone wars did to the legends canon. It wrecked a lot of concrete “facts” within the universe, and then the timeline was ended by disney before the cracks caused by TCW could be fixed up.
I used to be friends with a pretty good guy who wrote reviews on IMDB called TedG. Anyway he got so bored watching Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones he came up with this theory: the "force" is really a massive nanotech computer system that can communicate with each other AND machines AND computers, that permeates the blood stream of living organic creatures, manipulating events so that the robots will be the true overlords of the Galaxy. They have the ability to "blind" the Jedi to super obvious clues around them, like the Sith Lord COULD ONLY BE the Chancellor. I mean, duh, who else would it be, Leon the Manure Cart Boy?
The force seems to be able to make a farm boy destroy a Death Star with a shot and pull a lightsaber from the snow with little to no training. But god forbid a girl who has heard the Jedi tales and rumors of their abilities using the force in her own way through rumblings makes her a Mary Sue. Can’t make this shit up! Star Wars “fans”…
Except the Force didn't make Luke destroy the Death Star. Luke used the Force to time his shot just right. It also didn't make him pull the lightsaber. He had spent 3 years training to harness the Force, and he was just barely able to call the lightsaber to him. This is a lot different than Rey being able to use a mind trick, or use a lightsaber, or lift a whole bunch of boulders, all without so much as a week's worth of proper training. These two are not comparable to each other at all.
I feel like there is a missed opportunity to really dive into Kreia's stance that the Force is unnatural and detrimental. While a Jedi like Qui-Gon might preach about living in symbiosis with the Force, someone disillusioned with the inescapable binary of Jedi and Sith will see the Force as a parasite. To live in "symbiosis" with the Force means you must kill your own ego to achieve inner peace. This, however, is unnatural and contradictory to the idea of living in symbiosis. A wolf will snarl and use aggression for survival, yet it's not acting against the symbiosis. Why is it any different if smart beings get a little selfish? The Force refuses to acknowledge this, and then sabotages anyone who tries to use its gifts for personal reasons.
A wolf doesn't know the difference between right and wrong. They act on instinct and don't understand or are even aware of the suffering of other beings. Humans are able to override their instincts in the moment and sacrifice immediate gain for long term reward. Very simplified, if is in your power to improve the future of your tribe, but refuse to do so in favor of personal gain, that could be considered immoral in a social species. If everyone just acted in instinct and carnal desire, we would never have civilization. It takes many people's making personal sacrifice in the name of the greater good(whatever that may be). Altruism has evolutionary purposes. But if you take a wolf's bone away and tell him you're making him a nice stew, he's just going to bite you and take the bone back.
The problem is that Kreia's hatred of the Force is completely skewed by her Sith ideology. She doesn't really hate the Force because it causes conflict and leads to people dying. She hates it because SHE doesn't want to be subservient to anyone or anything, including the Whills. It's an fundamentally selfish and incorrect view of the Force, and it's why Kreia is the villain of the story.
That doesn't mean she's wrong about the force or wrong to hate it's interference in free will. You can be a bad person, or even an outright monster, and still be correct when you insist something is wrong.
I've always liked the idea that there is no "dark" or "light" side, that it's only how you USE the force that matters. The idea of an objective "good" side of the force never sat well when the Jedi clearly are fucking horrible. they don't allow people to experience true love or emotion, let alone have families. Anakin became Darth Vader because the only person who was sympathetic and helped him (or at least appeared to) was Palpatine. If the Jedi weren't so toxic, Anakin wouldn't have rebelled. The Jedi also don't use their power to extinguish slavery in the galaxy, an ultimate evil that the Dark Side pales in comparison to. The Jedi also uphold a manifestly unjust system in the Republic. There are MONARCHIES that send "representatives" to the Republic. The Republic is also clearly Capitalist, a system so unjust it's tearing our actual planet to sun scorched shreds. The Dark Side is simply a tool, it doesn't "corrupt" you if you use it wisely and not for selfish gain. The problem with the Sith isn't that they're dark side users, it's that they're Fascists.
That note that the Sequel Trilogy treats the Force as an Abrahamic thing while old school force worked as a kind of Eastern philosophy (although shifting between more Buddhist leaning and more Daoist leaning) is like, the single biggest brain take on how it's changed post-Disney and you did it in like 3 paragraphs. That's incredible, well done.
thats just how a hound dawg do
Its really eye opening as to why so many people find the new version of the force boring. Because it literally is "Jesus loves you", just Jesus is pronounced "The force". Sad really.
And I guess the Prequels tried to be empirical/follow natural philosophy?
@@bufferly5595it's the microbiome and health on a micro and macro scale
20+ years since TPM adults still cant grasp midichlorians. Isnt that wonder?
@@halliwedgethat's just your cultural bias. A lot of fantasy Japanese animes are influenced by Christianity because Christianity is seen as "exotic". Tibetan Buddhist monks are fascinated by Immanuel Kant's Critique Of Pure Reason for similar reasons. American culture is at least somewhat familiar with Christianity so it's not as "exciting".
Use C-3PO’s superior robotic brain, Luke
I unironically said wow out loud after finishing the video.
I learned more about Star Wars lore, the production history and a better breakdown for each era's interpretations of the Force mechanics in a 30 minute video than I have after watching literal documentaries. Great job
Love the amount of backstory lore was added with Lucas’ old work. That and it not being one of the million rants about the new movies. Great job.
Seriously some of the best analysis I've watched - this along with the rise of Skywalker analysis is frankly incredible.
You might be the perfect Star Wars content creator. Your takes are educated, thorough, and truly encompassing of all aspects of a very large franchise. It's refreshing to see.
its great to sea how litterally every name shown in the early drafts is used by some character in modern star wars.
The fact that the Dark Side was originally called "Bogan" should be very entertaining to any Aussie viewers of this video
How about you Bogan this [Redacted]
It calls upon you, to not wear sunscreen, crush beers and blare Bruce Springsteen until 3 in the morning.
Oh no you being consumed by Bogan Forces!!! 😱
Buncha cheeky cunts they are, the Sith. Let's head to Mustafar, stick another sith on the barbie
Meanwhile, the quote "That's Not How the Force Works" is a common tag on AO3, especially in fics that do things that are uncommon or just not done in canon. Chief amongst these things is time travel. I respect that Canon avoids time travel, and I feel that avoidance means fanfic can play with it as much as any writer wants.
"I respect that Canon avoids time travel"
Hoo boy do I have some unfortunate news…
The dark side being known as Bogan gives me a fun mental picture.
This dark lord with a lightsaber but also necking a VB, wearing a vest with a Holden tattoo.
this is one of the most thoughtful pieces of analysis on the Star Wars franchise I've seen on this platform that isn't just some guy making the 470 millionth imitation of the RedLetterMedia Episode 1 video, the fact that this only has 15K views should be illegal
The prequels still suck dude. This video just explains what George Lucas was doing.
9:50 The part about the two sides of force using living beings to wage war against eachother is something Obsidian, the developers of KOTOR 2, came up with independantly, and the game's story is one of my favorites of all time. Great minds think alike?
I never really viewed the situation like this. Going by what George was trying to do with the Sequels, it seems a lot more like one massive organism (the Force) made up of infinite numbers of smallers organisms (every living being) trying to cut out a cancer (the Dark Side) using some form of anti-bodies (the Whills) to ensure that it remains strong and healthy (balance to the Force). That's what makes the most sense to me, anyway.
I can see the algorithm’s not being kind to this one so far, but really good work here, man. You stand out from the pack with these videos.
This is astounding! This is well researched and gives a great insight to how the audience and the creator perceives a concept, and how that conception will evolve over time. Fascinating!!
Extremely refreshing to see an interesting take on the sequels. Stellar work.
The netherworld and the idea of delaying someone's death at it's door for the sake of redeeming them goes so hard, especially considering it would have been yoda and he was part lf the group that failed Anakin
This is the greatest Star Wars lore video that I’ve ever watched. Thank you for putting this together.
I am noting how a lot of the early names were recycled later on - the Whills, Ashla and Bogan, Bendu, kyber crystals - names that all got used as deep Jedi lore.
George is a maestro of recycling old ideas and using them in new contexts. It's part of what makes him such a good storyteller.
I don't know why this video dosen't have more views, this channel is so underrated, few videos, I just came after the video "How bad movies are made, feat. The Rise of Skywalker" and I loved it, it was the most detailed explanation about how Rise of Skywalker was developed, it's interesting to know about the first drafts of George Lucas, there are some interesting storires right ther, Lucas surely had a strange but great imagination, I like how yo used The Planets suite by Gustav Holst as background music (along with John Williams' score), knowing it's influence on the Star Wars music.
"Yoda's quest to discover how to do a shitty looking dissolve when you die" man, you never miss with these.. best star wars essays on youtube
There’s some really interesting ideas in Lucas’ first drafts of the OT, but I do agree that making someone’s fall to the dark side a result of external entities really robs them of having much agency.
Anakin fell to the dark side because of palpatines manipulations, no one will fall to the dark side without external factors
@@oldylad you’re robbing him of agency and making him a boring character. Palpatine may have manipulated anakin but at the end of the day he chose to do the evil things he did. Palpatine didn’t force him to k!ll the younglings, he chose that himself.
@@phylocybe_, true. But would Anakin have fallen to the Dark Side if Palpatine hadn't spent 13 years manipulating him into it?
...Somehow, I doubt it.
really appreciate the thinking of each trilogy and how they interpret the force, i did prefer the prequel trilogy since it made it more tangible, there was at least something that can explain it but not everything. i still hate the sequel trilogy having so many different writers and 2 directors changing things up just made it a mess and i have no idea where J.J. got the idea to have rey and kylo teleport lightsabers behind their back.
Absolutely fantastic analysis. I'm working on my own video analyzing the Buddhist and Taoist influences on the concept of the Force, and your work here is seriously helpful in discerning some of the ideas I had previously thought contradictory, now I know are elements from different drafts and such.
Small details that are also interesting.
Kyber crystals as a magical artefact that enhences the power of a force user does show up in 1878' Splinter of the mind eye, the second star wars novel ever after the novelisation of the first film. Which was originaly meant as a potential outline for the sequel.
The kyber crystal there allowed Luke to channel the ghost of Ben Kenobi, a way similar to how Rey does all of the jedi in rise of skywalker.
The grey jedi idea of using both side of the force is present in the 2011's Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan novel, in which the protagonist, Revan from the KoToR game explicity gets a power up by using both side of the forc at once once he gets back all his memories.
The most explicit showing of that concept of using both side of the force as one however come in the 2012's Dawn of the Jedi comic series and novel, where it's established that the first ever Jedi, than called Je'daii used both side of the force in harmony, it an unbalance in either side resulting in a trip to one of two moons, named Ashla and Bogan after Lucas original name for the different side of the force, to correct said unbalance.
Both those exemple come from near the end of the original EU (beside the old republic MMO which is still receiving story updates to this day), and show that the franchise was moving toward an interpretation of both sides of the forces being natural part of the universe.
Introducing the background of Star Wars with The Planets is such a great touch considered it influenced the music of Star Wars so much.
late, and massively paraphrasing the work done by Noah Caldwell-Gervais in their essays on KOTOR, but: a lot of Lucas's loose repurposing of misc. Buddhist thought is a retranslation of Joseph Conrad's The Hero with a Thousand Faces, which itself uses a reductive, Freud-filtered scaffold of Hindu and Buddhist religions.
21:33 was a surprisingly bad time in an otherwise great video!
What?
@@CallMeDockett Look behind the tree!
It makes a lot of Sans when you notice it.
@@Vagab0ndify ohhhh 😂😂💀 that’s hilarious
Dude I don't know why this video doesn't have as many or even more views than your other videos. Great job! I've watched some stuff from your channel already and so far this is my favourite one!
The stuff about the dead moving into another dimension or part of the universe being brought back as an idea for Ahsoka is really neat.
The concept was thrown out for a good reason imo. Storytelling wise it cheapens any sacrifice, and the fact that they didn’t confirm that it was gone for good means it could happen again at any point. It was likely removed from the OT because it implies that ANY Jedi who knows how can just… avoid dying. That removes a lot of tension
this channel has some of the best star wars analyses I've ever seen...
Such a great video! I'm glad RUclips brought me this gem of a creator!
Nah, that last bit about "you make what you want about the force" is dumb.
Don Obi JUAN Kenobi, haha. Just goes to show that if you like something, and are trying to creating something yourself.. just iterate on those things you hold dear, until it is acceptably different.
EDIT: Great video! I appreciate the ample investigation and documentation of the basis, accepted idioms, and nonsense that should have stayed hidden instead of muddling a good initial trilogy! Giving more is almost never good.. at least when everyone does with it whatever they want.
Oh, and the whole bible comparison for the latest was eye-opening!
So, does this mean Palpatine can never die no matter how many times we blow him up?
Whenever he reaches a death-state he just reverts to his neutral position: floating somewhere beneath the floor, doing an "A" pose.
@@samwallaceart288 Sith T-pose, the most powerful Dark Side technique of all.
Somehow, he will always return
the fact this video has a fourth precept reference is insane
I loved this look into the history. It's fascinating how many times Lucas reworked the system, but kept trying to add a ton of systemic detail which only ever informed the writing rather than making it into the final text. It definitely makes sense that a lot of other writers extrapolated-out from on-screen stuff, even when the behind-the-scenes documents said they were unique occurrences.
I like how many names and concepts were there from the very start too, like Mace Windu or the crystals (albeit with a different function). I definitely don't like the whole "charge up regularly through the crystal!" angle in those early drafts, though. So I'm glad that got changed.
I also find it really interesting how (according to that Wikia screenshot, anyway) apparently just going against the Jedi Council makes one a "grey" Jedi even if you don't use any "dark side" abilities. I always viewed the Council as amoral and corrupt, with Qui-Gonn (and later Obi-Wan and Yoda) being the only true follower of the ideals of the Jedi/the Force.
But then I never liked the idea that certain abilities (ie lightning) required a certain affiliation either, just because Yoda and the Emperor had unique moves. I was definitely always on the side of what you do with the power mattering more than the power itself, and that other people with other agendas must've learnt them too in the entire history of the setting.
And I must admit I was always on the side of "eliminating the dark side is a nonsense", largely because of other influences like taoism and buddhism. You make a compelling case for the "give an inch and it'll take a million miles" argument at the end though, as there's definitely aspects of the world I think that about (like political reactionaries, who will never be satisfied).
You should read SUPERNATURAL ENCOUNTERS by Joe Bongiorno. I think you'd find it interesting. His interpretation of how the cosmic Star Wars universe and the Cosmic Force works and how it all ties together is pretty insane but fascinating too.
Guys, let's be honest here: the Force works however the plot needs it to work. It is not a "magic system." It is a plot device. That has always been the case, whether we want to admit it or not...
This is not true. Watch the video again.
@@822I79I I did watch the video. And, with respect, the video is wrong. The "rules" and "mechanics" of the Force have changed multiple times throughout the various Star Wars media. I have seen films where the skill of telekinesis was absurdly hard and required at least some prior training (ex. "Empire Strikes Back"), and media where it was something Force-sensitive children could naturally do without any prior knowledge (ex. "The Clone Wars" tv show, "The Old Republic" MMORPG). I have seen movies which clearly stated certain Force abilities were surefire paths to the Dark Side (ex. the prequel films), and games which clearly stated that no particular abilities were "Dark Side" or "Light Side" (ex. the Dark Forces series). I have read novels and comics that implied the Force was so powerful that it could literally destroy suns and create black holes, and seen movies where Jedi were rendered helpless by a door. Hell, even Lucas has admitted the entire way he conceived of the Force "working" changed between "A New Hope" and "The Empire Strikes Back," saying the original version of it was like a "yoga" that anyone could learn. The Force is a plot device that works however a given story NEEDS it to work, and pretending otherwise is just ridiculous...
Been watching all of your videos after the past month and the few kotor references has really made me want to see a full kotor centric video from you
Excellent video.
One thing that it seems you missed. The idea of midi-chlorians was not new, just people don't know that. It is explained in the Rinzler book, The Making of Star Wars - The Definitive Story Behind the Original Film.
"The Force gives you the power to have extrasensory perception and to be able to see things and hear things, read minds and levitate things. It is said that certain creatures are born with a higher awareness of the Force than humans. Their brains are different; they have more midi-chlorians in their cells."
This quote is from the book's Deluxe Edition Bonus Material section: The Force
Criminally under appreciated analysis. This is legendary stuff.
This video was actually amazing. Thank you so much for making this
Why does this have so few views, like actually, is RUclips snubbing you?
Great video underrated channel
i loved this, thanks ❤
can you add an addendum covering the new Anakin & World Between Worlds stuff?? 🙏🙏
The amount of research you did to make this video is impressive. I really enjoy your objective point of view. You don't make any judgement and let the viewer decide.
FYI I am personally not ok with Disney not following the original writer ideas. Avengers endgame was good because I believe Disney did not change marvel studio original plan. Unfortunately Star wars did not get that chance.
I am still trying to find excuses to Disney so I can enjoy star wars again, but I am not there yet 😢
Deserves a lot more subs
21:31 there's a sans in the background
Why the fuck doesn't this have more views?
That one single point about Kylo being temped by the light side as other are tempted by the dark side was deeper and more perfound than the entire trilogy....
The force being contained in the stomach is actually accurate. Anyone knows anything about chi/Ki will thell you that there is an energy center in the middle of your body (basically where the stomach is) called the dantian or "sea of chi". Tapping into this energy center and getting your energy to flow through your body is the first step in learning how to control and manipulate it. There's a meditation technique called the Mu No Hado which allows you to do just that.
thank you. this is all very basic, entry-level information but i'm sure it would be helpful if any beginners happen to read it 🙏
@@originalSiiiN Just thought I should share some knowledge.
22:54 this is the perfect description of Cade Skywalker xD
Just watched this and your Transformers video - really well written and some good discussion. Please keep it up!
The force is simply a mystical field of energy which binds and controls all things in the world. The vast majority of organisms cannot even perceive of it. Some organisms however, are gifted, and can perceive of it and manipulate it. Not just anyone can become a Jedi/Sith. You either have it or you don’t.
When it comes to the “dark side vs light side” that’s simply a description of the individuals actions.
That’s always been my interpretation of it.
This idea of Qui Gonn being a grey jedi I don't believe for a second. He was always on the light side. He just didn't buy into the politics of the Jedi Council, rather he followed the will of the force. He may have been able to tap into using dark side powers for his advantage in battle but that doesn't make him a grey jedi. He was just as quickly able to control his powers and bring himself back into the light side. But personally I'm not a believer of grey jedi. You're either dark or light. As Yoda said, "Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you it will."
Keep in mind that "Grey Jedi" was coined as a term referring to a Jedi who doesn't follow the written code to the absolute letter or always defer to the council. It did NOT refer to a Jedi who straddles the line between light and dark, that came with further media and different authors. The latter definition even seems like it could be some sort of in-universe invention to try and make Jedi who don't kowtow sound like dangerous renegades who may turn at a moment's notice.
Frankly, that particular line of Yoda's is disproved by the entire plot of RotJ, where the only reason the heroes win at all is because Luke rejects Obi-Wan and Yoda's advice to kill Vader, which is what redeems Anakin and defeats the Emperor in the end. This notion of there being no going back from the dark side is also refuted by Asajj Ventress being able to peace out, as well as Anakin himself slaughtering an entire village in AotC, 100% an act of malicious retribution, and yet bringing himself back for a few more years.
i think qui-gon as a grey jedi doesn’t fit the version of grey jedi where they’re stuck between the dark side and the light side, but i think he does fit in the new dominant canon idea of a grey jedi with Ahsoka as a light side force user who does not agree with the institution of the jedi.
A protestant follower of the light side of the force if you will.
It's interesting how Just as Europeans tried to Christianize every mythology, the same is happening to star wars
bro what
Star Wars was always religious in nature
@@cultofsucc5807 The Force, as envisioned in Lucas's mind, was based on Buddhist principles. Not Christian, hence why EmpireWreckers, the maker of this video notes this change in JJ Abram's force becoming more "Christian."
@@MalevolentSpirit234 sure but the Star Wars universe contains many Abrahmic and Jude’s Christian parallels and tropes and yes Buddhist philosophies as well. He was a geek beleive it or not and lots of historical and religious parallels seeped into Star Wars,I mean litterly Anakin is called the chosen one and is born from a virgin mother in the d e s e r t, some not so subtle references in my mind. Aswell as the idea of “falling” to the dark side resembles the ancient Adam and Eve story, but it also contains many Buddhist references especially when it comes to the original trilogy. But to say that JJ abrams is exclusively responsible for this is not true.
@@cultofsucc5807Yes, I agree. I’m disappointed in this video creator’s willingness to steamroll over this layer of nuance just to squeeze in a “lol sequels bad” jab to appease RUclips commenters’ insatiable bloodlust.
Yo, I was drunk watching this video, and it was wild. I loved it.
awesome video!! Please keep doing these!
The earlier part of this video is another pointer to me that art is often a lot bigger than the artist themselves. Lucas' original intentions of the force were actually pretty weak and unoriginal. Whereas viewing the finished product without Lucas' glasses, fans see it in a lot fresher (and imo better) way. It's exactly like Ridley Scott and Blade Runner. That film's ending was masterfully ambiguous into whether Deckard was a replicant or not - it gives the film so much meaning, that we'll never know and that it shouldn't matter. He still feels emotions regardless. However then goes Ridley spilling his big mouth and trying to tell us that Deckard is a human, completely ruining the point of the film. Obviously as viewers we choose to completely ignore Ridley, the same can be applied to Lucas and Star Wars. Midiclorians are forgettable and are one of the few things I don't consider 'canon'. George is also very well known for his changes to small things whenever Star Wars is re-release. "Han shot first".
Also just before anyone jumps down my throat, this *does not* take away from these directors' incredible work. Without them none of this would exist to be enjoyed. But we should also be thankful they don't get their way all of the time.
21:30 So... Are we not going to talk about Sans watching from behind that tree in the background??
amazing video
Brilliant research.
Well done!
I’m surprised that when talking about Mortis that you didn’t mention Abeloth
The Force us a plot device
You're the best Star Wars guy on RUclips. And that's saying something.
Quite well, thank you.
The force wasn’t the Jesus and accepting of the lord and savior crap. It was about Rey accepting her path as a Jedi, and the force was merely the part of nature that pushed her toward that path, and learning to trust and believe in it rather than run away from it. The ancient texts were also from Jedi and their interpretation of the force and not the force itself. If anything the sequels, at least the first two brought the force back to basics.
21:30 Ay what’s Sans doing back there?
What is the force? Where the Aliens come from? Questions that shouldn't be answered. If I think about it only Rey make sense. Using the force as a reflex. This also explain why sometimes the Jedi forget that they can use it.
Believers of the Unified Field. I think that "theory" would be good enough explanation.
"What is the force?" Well, Obi-Wan explained that to us all the way back in A New Hope, so maybe it'd be a good idea to refresh on that.
"Where the Aliens come from?" They evolved from various species on various planets, just like humans. It's not that difficult to discern.
For me the force will always be mystical and Grey Jedi will always be a thing.
Love your in-depth video on the force!
Hope more Star Wars videos will come in time!
Auralnauts already explained: it’s ______.
Don't worry about the Force. Let me worry about blank.
"My midi-chlorian count is at 9. . . That's stupid low!" --Ki Adi Mundi, 19 BBY
The best answer/the most bs answer my fellow students and I would use in our philosophy class would be “It Depends”. I also feel that is perfect for defining how the force “works”.
You deserve 1m subscribers
Honestly it's a shame people label Lucas a "mastermind of creativity"--it limits Star Wars' ability to evolve.
Lucas wasn't a master inventor, but a master _curator._
The strength was always in how Star Wars can draw on any disparate mythology and tradition, and make them all play nice with each other in an approachable, relatable context.
No mention of Dune seems odd considering how much of the force and Star wars draws from it.
when on mushrooms watching empire i had an interpretation of the dark side being hedonistic stuff like drugs. now this is just how i felt after getting off opiods but i like to think anyone can have their own perception of the force and star wars
What book is that at the 7:56 mark? The one which is chapter six, The Rise of the Poetic State?
It's The Making of Star Wars by J.W. Rinzler - specifically the "Enhanced Edition" on Google Books
@@empirewreckers You’re a champ, thanks so much! I have a copy of that on my shelf, so might need a revisit
What is the name of the book that you reference when you reference Lucas's notes?
I really wish the thing about the whils (or however you spell it) was made cannon. Mysterious godlike forces that use the jedi and sith like chess pieces to fight their Star Wars for them.
the force works like this: however the writers want. the force IS the act of writing! haha
0:00 🕛 17:00 🕔-32:02!
It's crazy to learn that Mace Windu has been a core character from the beginning, what a legend.
21:34 hey what is that doing there
How does this channel have sub 10k subscribers??? That's a bigger crime than the sequel trilogy 🤣
21:31 sans is behind a tree for some reason
“What is that? What the f* is that?”
21:34 excuse me why is he standing there???
0:00 🕛-26:00-32:00!
Yoooo. Welcome back. 💓🔥
Amazing analysis! Great attention to music for each section :) Even that Dagobah piece they used heavily in Jedi Academy :)
The biggest problem with the Force concept is the content surrounding the main films, as you can keep it vague only so long before fans want to know more, and you inevitably forced in the territory where you have to be specific about the mechanics of it all, thus, disappointing certain groups of "believers" XDD The midichlorian concept is really sloppy device to confirm the status of being a "chosen one". Last time Yoda's word was taken for granted...
Personally I hate what the clone wars did to the legends canon. It wrecked a lot of concrete “facts” within the universe, and then the timeline was ended by disney before the cracks caused by TCW could be fixed up.
I'm glad someone proofread george
I used to be friends with a pretty good guy who wrote reviews on IMDB called TedG. Anyway he got so bored watching Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones he came up with this theory: the "force" is really a massive nanotech computer system that can communicate with each other AND machines AND computers, that permeates the blood stream of living organic creatures, manipulating events so that the robots will be the true overlords of the Galaxy. They have the ability to "blind" the Jedi to super obvious clues around them, like the Sith Lord COULD ONLY BE the Chancellor. I mean, duh, who else would it be, Leon the Manure Cart Boy?
The force seems to be able to make a farm boy destroy a Death Star with a shot and pull a lightsaber from the snow with little to no training. But god forbid a girl who has heard the Jedi tales and rumors of their abilities using the force in her own way through rumblings makes her a Mary Sue. Can’t make this shit up! Star Wars “fans”…
Except the Force didn't make Luke destroy the Death Star. Luke used the Force to time his shot just right. It also didn't make him pull the lightsaber. He had spent 3 years training to harness the Force, and he was just barely able to call the lightsaber to him.
This is a lot different than Rey being able to use a mind trick, or use a lightsaber, or lift a whole bunch of boulders, all without so much as a week's worth of proper training. These two are not comparable to each other at all.
Just commenting to up engagement on this great video
KOTOR II was calling out Disney's Star Wars before it even happened.
How did you find all of these old forum posts? Using the Wayback Machine wouldn't be enough to find these specific topics, right?
OK but what's with the skeleton at 21:32?
I was not expecting "Star Wars has become Christian" to be a legitimate explanation for why the Sequels are the way they are
I feel like there is a missed opportunity to really dive into Kreia's stance that the Force is unnatural and detrimental.
While a Jedi like Qui-Gon might preach about living in symbiosis with the Force, someone disillusioned with the inescapable binary of Jedi and Sith will see the Force as a parasite.
To live in "symbiosis" with the Force means you must kill your own ego to achieve inner peace. This, however, is unnatural and contradictory to the idea of living in symbiosis. A wolf will snarl and use aggression for survival, yet it's not acting against the symbiosis. Why is it any different if smart beings get a little selfish?
The Force refuses to acknowledge this, and then sabotages anyone who tries to use its gifts for personal reasons.
A wolf doesn't know the difference between right and wrong. They act on instinct and don't understand or are even aware of the suffering of other beings.
Humans are able to override their instincts in the moment and sacrifice immediate gain for long term reward.
Very simplified, if is in your power to improve the future of your tribe, but refuse to do so in favor of personal gain, that could be considered immoral in a social species.
If everyone just acted in instinct and carnal desire, we would never have civilization. It takes many people's making personal sacrifice in the name of the greater good(whatever that may be). Altruism has evolutionary purposes.
But if you take a wolf's bone away and tell him you're making him a nice stew, he's just going to bite you and take the bone back.
The problem is that Kreia's hatred of the Force is completely skewed by her Sith ideology. She doesn't really hate the Force because it causes conflict and leads to people dying. She hates it because SHE doesn't want to be subservient to anyone or anything, including the Whills. It's an fundamentally selfish and incorrect view of the Force, and it's why Kreia is the villain of the story.
That doesn't mean she's wrong about the force or wrong to hate it's interference in free will. You can be a bad person, or even an outright monster, and still be correct when you insist something is wrong.
I've always liked the idea that there is no "dark" or "light" side, that it's only how you USE the force that matters. The idea of an objective "good" side of the force never sat well when the Jedi clearly are fucking horrible. they don't allow people to experience true love or emotion, let alone have families. Anakin became Darth Vader because the only person who was sympathetic and helped him (or at least appeared to) was Palpatine. If the Jedi weren't so toxic, Anakin wouldn't have rebelled. The Jedi also don't use their power to extinguish slavery in the galaxy, an ultimate evil that the Dark Side pales in comparison to. The Jedi also uphold a manifestly unjust system in the Republic. There are MONARCHIES that send "representatives" to the Republic. The Republic is also clearly Capitalist, a system so unjust it's tearing our actual planet to sun scorched shreds. The Dark Side is simply a tool, it doesn't "corrupt" you if you use it wisely and not for selfish gain. The problem with the Sith isn't that they're dark side users, it's that they're Fascists.
Yeah, that's very much a misinterpretation of the Force, the Jedi, and... kinda the entire lore of Star Wars right there.
Magic