The thing with F1 is that it ain't always competitive, unlike indy where all teams are very close. But a competitive F1 season is something no other sport can match. That's just my opinion
I would agree but I think it's because F1 nowadays is so dominated by 2-3 teams every year, when it does get competitive people take notice because it's unusual. But that's just my opinion too as an F1 fan
The other thing is that part of what makes F1 so interesting over indycar is the ridiculously intricate politics. Half of it is the off-track drama lol
There's way more variance in F1. Great F1 is better than great IndyCar, but bad F1 is worse than bad IndyCar. Plus F1 has the engineering component, which is super appealing to some of us
@@jordanbowen6136 not really most drivers in IndyCar are all good enough for F1 but don't have the money. Someone like Grosjean should be in F1 but just had bad cars so couldn't compete at the front so was look at as a bad driver but with IndyCar everyone has a chance to win because its equal
I did a lap in Monaco. It was in a Renault with a couple of gals in the car with me. Interesting part is the F1 race was in about 10 days and they were already setting up the grandstands and pits.
I have done laps at Indy. There is a program where you can learn how to drive an Indycar. The last I knew it was $1000. They have the speeds governed at 180 mph, which is much slower than the 230 mph the pros drive. But, it's plenty fast enough for a newbie, especially since you are sitting so low, it feels very fast.
Not exactly losing them, it's more like a place were F1 drivers without a seat and young guys that don't get their chance in F1 can go, and it's great because Indycar is the biggest open wheel series outside F1.
i'm a huge Formula1-Fan since i can remember (around end of the 80's - the clearest Memorys from early 90's) but Indy Cart is the better Series for "Driver can make the Difference" and for "pure racing" - but F1 is still the Top-Series over all - i hope the Teams come nearer to eachother in the following Years (new Cars, Budgetcap...). but yes, Indy-Cart is the best open-wheel-series after Formula 1. i wish i could watch it (and NASCAR) in Switzerland :-/
@@DeshWitus well if you're ever in the states for a race I suggest being in the infield, it's a fun vibe just a day event talking with strangers about anything and day drinking. Indy 500 is a great experience
@@DeshWitus Cause F1 in its orginal was not a competition between drivers, but between car manufacturers, it was to see who can buy the fastest car, later on driver skills were of importance as well.
While I enjoy watching indy from time to time I wouldn’t say F1 is losing drivers. Those who changed to indy basically lost a seat in f1, I can’t imagine a F1 driver in his prime switching on purpose
Totally agree. The drivers that head to Indy car are generally the ones who couldn't compete in F1, even in the midfield. If you look at the opposite, there have been a few top caliber Indy drivers (Seb Bourdais for example) who come to F1 and are terrible.
I realize that this happened decades ago, and this is really the only time I remember something like this happening, but........... Nigel Mansell switched the year after he won his '92 f1 championship..... Of course he then won the cart championship in '93. Again I know this was a LONG time ago, and it really doesn't hold true today in the context of what you are saying. Kimi and Fernando both took time off of F1, but Kimi only competed in 2 nascar truck races, and Fernando only ran the Indy 500 once. The following year he attempted but failed to qualify at Indy. So yeah the F1 series is a proven test ground for future Indycar talent, but no one with a pulse is EVER going to call F1 a feeder series. FORZA FERRARI!! 🏁
Downforce does produce drag and that makes the car slower but that's beside the point, downforce doesn't increase mass but you can sort of argue it increases weight
@@07_danishwistara29 heh, that's an interesting point. The engine is moving the mass, not the weight. Also, ground effect aero increases downforce while barely adding any drag
5 G's means 5 times earths gravity... So its just a wrong term to use when talking static downforce. I think he meant the cars can pull 5 G's of lateral force in the corners... But most American shows really dont give a shit about being accurate :/ Unless its smarter every day, but even he tries to dumb it down so much. Still love destin regardless, keeps everyone on the same page
@@Captain_Coleslaw I think donut media is well researched most of the time. I mean with the amount of content they post you can’t really fault them for a couple of blips here and there
I'm really glad that Romain and Kevin found a motorsport they can enjoy and actually be competitive in. HAAS is a freaking curse for drivers lol and I pray for Mick Schumacher in his upcoming years. EDIT: I'm going to have to revoke what I said in this comment after seeing Kevin in the HAAS out-qualify George in the Mercedes today. Looking forward to an exciting race tomorrow! P.S. Forza Ferrari Edit Part 2: Mick scored his first points in F1 finally. P.P.S. I wish Ferrari would get it together.
I started watching f1 drive to survive (terrible name) recently and Haas is where talent goes to die in grosjeans case the Bahrain Grand Prix was close
With the rumors that Chip G has "wooed" Grojean and Coines will bring in Albon next year... F1 is still the best, but Indycar is where the rest will play. The guys who can't play int the tippy top still havs a chance to rock n roll at what they love. 😃
Same video, but different titles according to nationally: - American: yeaah we are the best, just better, reason doesn't matter - Canadian: both F1 and Indy are equally great - Brits: Americans and their superiority complex again... - Italian: as long as their are buying our engines and tyres it doesn't matter
awesome cars are America's greatest contribution to the world. it's. it that we have a superiority complex. a lot of us in America are just raised to be competitive and to love anything with wheels. the problem with American society and he competitive mindset that's engrained, is there isn't often lessons in humility to balance that. and to be fair. the Aussies are the same way as we Americans are when it comes to muscle cars. they want to be the best. that's why I love Australian motorsports as an American.
@@preston2636 you just turned topic about F1/indy into an argument about muscle cars... Is that an American thing to do? Does it support the original comment? :D These are all jokes please there's no need for military action here. I surely don't want an american military base in my back garden
These 2 sports are different and should both be enjoyed by everyone. F1 is awesome for one thing and Indy car for another. Like on some weekends waking up early to watch an f1 race and Waiting for the afternoon for an indy race.
I went to an Indycar race at Watkins Glen, a few years ago. and the race itself almost wasn’t the main event. The pits were wide open. The Ferrari challenge series and some Fiat Club were there as well. There was also a Maserati MC12 in the pits. The whole experience was crazy cool.
American racing is a for the people kind of event, while F1 seems too be more posh. NASCAR is a great experience as a fan, as on TV you can see the drivers in their cars taking questions from the commentators, fans often get souviners like lugnuts or tires (i have a ton of hats from the pit crew of team penske, as well as lugnuts and an unused tire), and the atmosphere is just relaxed and happy.
@@antonym24 Yeah, at the Glen I basically strolled into the pits no questions asked. Saw Mario Andretti driving around on a scooter and he stopped and chatted with my father and I for a bit.
I live in Campbell (30 minutes away from WGI) and try to go to every non NASCAR WGI event. Its just so inviting to race fans. Its too bad FIA won't let F1 return to WGI given its history with F1 It would actually be a good thing. Mexico, Texas, WGI, Canada
Question: "Why is audience watching F2, Indy, F3, NASCAR, F4, Xtreme-E, Formula E, even karting races rather than F1?" Answer: Because the cars in those series are much closer. In F1 there was only Mercedes for 7 years in a row. To enable one driver to break records. Not even for a good cause, just for politics. And we know one thing about politics: It's boooooorrrrring. Politics is boring. And chases away the audience.
@@cinegraphics touché Mercedes has been padding lewis’s stats but just say you havent been watching this season because the grid with the exception of Haas has become more competitive
Got into Indy this year because of Grosjean and I’ve been loving it. F1 is awesome because of the theatrics and grand scale of it all but Indy is cool because of the DIY feeling of it and the fact that it puts the racing first.
I like the standard set of drivers in F1 that appear in every race with maybe an exception or two every year along with the distinctive liveries of mostly solid colors that are identical between teammates. It makes it easy to keep track of who is who on the racetrack. In indycar I have no idea who is who.
Tried watching Indy this season, the cars liveries changed almost weekly! One week, Grosjean was in a mostly orange car, the following week the car was green! How are you supposed to follow your favourite driver when its like playing 'Where's Waldo?' At 200mph? Also, Indy cars are soulless.
The best commonality between Indy Car and F1 is that both the current Indy Car aero regulations and the upcoming F1 rules have created good looking open wheel race cars.
@@Rltvader1 As much as I want to see how 22 regs go for racing, the new cars look a little weird. Might just be because were all used to the current cars' look
@@stratis722 The "halo" ring thing is somewhat still distasteful to see. Had they modified it properly it would be very beautiful for both drivers, audiences, and the teams.
3 года назад+2571
I watched the whole video and now I'm convinced that F1 is definitely better than IndyCar.
mercades suck now, and they have won the last 6 titles. So F1 is great to marvel but its sometimes easy come, easy go. Makes it harder as fan to believe ur man at any given season can get ruined with some changes to rules. Vettle for example was owning(4 titles in a row) now he cant win anything. Then hamiltion wins 7 in a row, now some random in was shit ferrari is now winning. Hard to bother watching so indy in this regard does not have this radical leader swaps.
Makes me think of the video where Tom Scott talks about how so many people are just saying stuff without any citations or references and asking you to trust them. Errors like this are in my opinion quite devastating for the trustworthiness of a channel like Donut Media. ruclips.net/video/leX541Dr2rU/видео.html&ab_channel=TheRoyalInstitution
@@lambda6iceman Downforce isnt the same as weight. The only disadvantages from downforce is the aerodynamic drag which wings create, and the weight of the wings itself. If what this video was suggesting was true, then big trucks would be a good option at the indy 500😂
@@lambda6iceman With 5 Gs of aerodynamic downforce it means the car is experiencing an APPARENT weight of 5 times gravity. If you could measure the force each tire was pushing down on the track at that moment, then adding them up would indeed equal 5 times the car's weight. But, this has nothing to do with the car's actual mass, or weight, which isn't really changing at all. The engine of a high downforce car has to work harder because high aerodynamic downforce cars also produce relatively high aerodynamic drag, not because the weight of the vehicle is changing. Sorry, but Donut dropped the ball on this one. Jeremiah, or whoever wrote this episode is displaying a fundamental ignorance of physics, and he refers to the same concept a few times, so this isn't a momentary lapse of reason, he's married to the idea.
Lap record at circuit of the americas: Indycar = 1:46 Formula 1 = 1:32 14 seconds is a huge difference. That is the same difference between a Lamborghini and a Mini Cooper going round silverstone. It isn't even close
Welcome to American programming, it’s awful. Like a football(soccer) match takes at most 2 hours, an American football game takes around 4 hours to watch because of all the stoppages and commercials
Downforce actually increases the frictional force between the tires and the track *without* increasing the car's mass. That's the whole point, otherwise your cornering acceleration is limited to your friction coefficient x gravity. Since the wings run at such high (negative) angles of attack, they make a sh*tton of drag though, which limits the speed.
@@joeyjohnson4826 By gravity, I mean the gravitational acceleration (9.8 m/s/s on Earth) which is independent of mass. He literally said that downforce increases the weight of the car, which is incorrect. Downforce squeezes the car against the track harder while still keeping the car light.
@@mikekalb nah you're wording it wrong. if you look at the design philosophy behind the r35 gtr the car was purposefully made heavier to force the tires against the ground and deliver more grip, therfore the increased weight from downforce increases frictional grip.
@@mikekalb weight is simply mass x acceleration. If you're providing an extra force that pushes down (downforce) which adds to gravity, your car's weight increases. Its mass does not.
Thing is Indy is more F2 than F1 in a few ways. They both use manual steering, similar spec chassis and even the power unit. F1 and Indy are different levels.
But the difference is how competitive the field is. Not two drivers winning, but a whole field of competitive driver and they also can hit 230 mph and have amazing close racing. F1 isn’t attainable and is corrupt. The drivers talent is shown rather than the car
You are comparing apples to oranges…Indy is far more than a ‘spec’ series. There are too many differences to the series to compare the two, but Indy is unfortunate enough to be somewhat similar and therefore attracts the vitriol and hate of F1 fans..not Motorsport fans, who can appreciate multiple series, but ‘F1 fans’ who only follow the single Motorsport and see bashing Indy as an opportunity to be petty and often attaching snide comments aimed at Americans in general. And often the bashers are British I have noticed! What is with British sports fans?! They are truly the epitome of toxic.
@@mamavswild I am comparing F2 to Indy as F1 and Indy are not comparable as every F1 driver can be an Indy driver, but not every Indy driver can be an F1 driver. You need a special licence for F1 and you need to have success in Indy or F2 to get the licence. Once you have that licence (Superlicence) you can race anything. F2 cars are very similar to Indy Cars in size and engines, even the same company makes the chassis. Just look up the specifications of an F2 car and an Indy car and you will see exactly that. F2 is a 100% spec series and IndyCar is a 90% spec series in that Indy has two types of engines to choose from where F2 has one, otherwise in both you are limited to minor setup changes with every other component made to the same specifications by a single manufacturer. In F1, everything is custom made by the teams and you have 4 power unit suppliers. Teams have vastly different design concepts and some cars may look similar, but their designs are quite different. Some components are “spec” and made by one manufacturer and some can be shared by teams, but as a whole, F1 teams must design their own cars. Christian Lundgaard made the direct jump from F2 to Indy and said it was fairly easy for him to be competitive because they are quite similar cars. Drivers who have driven F1 cars who have not had remarkable results in F1 will usually get results in Indy and prolong their open wheel careers by competing in IndyCar. Examples would be Sato, Montoya, Ericsson, and Grosjean to name a few. F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport and the cars are more powerful, more complex and you need a higher skill and athletic level to drive them in comparison to IndyCar. You can see it in the drivers. I think what can make international motorsport fans a bit uncomfortable is when people try to say that Indy and F1 are at an equal level of motorsport, when it is not. Even this article tried to suggest that and it can be interpreted in a negative way. To be clear I’m not British and I watch all kinds of racing from F1, F2, Endurance racing, rally car and also Indy. Everything I have said comparing the two is factual and I do not think there is any bashing of anyone here.
Unless Hamilton, Verstappen or some of the top guy suddenly move to Indy, I can't see how F1 is losing their driver. It's like when MotoGP rider move to WSBK. They move because thay had no contract extension or simply can't compete with the big teams.
Hamilton made $63 million last year in F1. The highest paid Indycar driver was Takuma Sato at only $1.4 million. So that's over 60 million reasons to stick with F1.
@@Frozander Kimi won't retire as long as he can physically drive :D But I still don't think Mick will ever go to Indycar. I mean his name alone can get him a seat in F1 anytime he wants (and he's not bad either)
@@Inferiis Rumours said Haas put up for sale, so probably Andretti snatch the bargain instead create expensive team and Mick might head to Alfa Romeo after Kimi retire from F1.
@@ThePaulz80 Andretti can't compete with Daddy Mazepin when it comes to buying Haas. Mazepin will buy Haas with spare change he finds in his dacha's couch, so Lil'Nicky can keep his seat.
There was a racing series in the UK Called "BOSS" and was "Big Open Single Seaters", was a classic race for older F1 Cars, IndyCars, Formula Renaults and other powerful open wheeled cars etc. They were shuffled into classes based on engine power etc, it wasn't too serious and was mostly racing fun with old open wheel cars. Getting to see IndyCars in road aero against F1 Cars with the smaller cars upsetting the grid a little, was a great series to watch at Donnington and Brands Hatch.
@@chickenfishhybrid44 Was a great series, you could really see the progression in technology over the years where newer F3 or Formula Renault cars could keep up with older F1 cars. Its the only place I ever saw with all those cars together, sending it in a race rather than Exhibition or Time Trial/Hill Climb.
The conundrum that I have: The big thing I like about Indy is how competitive the racing is. The thing I hate about Indy is that all the cars are the same. The thing I like about Indy is caused by the thing I hate! One of the things I like about F1 is that each team's cars are different, and there is a back and forth in the engineering war. The thing I hate is that this leads to some teams dominating the competition, lately for years at a time. The thing I hate F1 is caused by the thing I like!
Same here. Indy is better from a drivers stand point because everyone has an equal chance of winning, while in F1, you could have the best driver on the grid that deserves to win everything in a midfield or slowest car and they won't win anything. Vettel could have easily been a 7 time champion by now if he was with Mercedes instead of Lewis, and the same could be said about many of the drivers there. But it's the fact it's an engineering war between the teams that make me like that sport better than F1
It's the same reason why I enjoy nascar so much. It's a toss up, every time. Random drivers can (and do) win races quite often, and the aggressiveness of the driving is amazing. F1 seems like a battle between the 2 best teams, with everybody else just there to fill the grid spots.
@@bobjohn2000 I liked NASCAR better when the race cars were at least based on production vehicles. I understand why that couldn't continue, but it is just another spec racing series now, with an extremely screwy championship system. I don't even mind it being mostly boring oval tracks, but it would be nice if there were more road races. It is absolutely hilarious when they call the cars a Ford, Chevy, or Toyota.🤣
Do you have any idea how many IndyCar Champions you have to go back before you find someone that was an "F1 leftover?" Scott Dixon, Josef Newgarden, Simon Pagenaud, Will Power, Ryan Hunter-Reay, Dario Franchitti... If you're an idiot you'll say Sebastien Bourdais I guess, but his IndyCar Championships came before his venture into F1, where the car was what sunk him. After that, we're looking at Sam Hornish Jr. , Dan Wheldon, Tony Kanaan, Cristiano da Matta... I mean, these are a lot of names disproving your point here, huh? Kinda like it was just a dumb thing you said.
Important point: since F1 cars have never driven on a speedway, they have *never been configured for a speedway.* If you hold a race on one, teams will have to bring an aero package specifically for the event.
@Farith Robledo they race at the Circuit of the Americas. Texas Motor Speedway is a different track. Circuit of the Americas is a road course. Texas Motor Speedway is an oval track.
@Farith Robledo F1 drivers are subject to the same laws of physics so they would not allow them to use the full potential of F1 spec adapted to ovals because of safety
@Farith Robledo Uh whut? Lol no that's the exact opposite: Indycar teams can bring whichever wing package suits them. If you're trying to keep it even, then it's a "run what ya brung" race, whereby the two series' totally different priorities result in the same situation: one decimates the other on a particular course, whilst the tables are turned and the other decimates the one on the different course. To wit, Indycar shows up & runs COTA; it's another race for them & their outright performance does NOT stack up to F1; F1 could NOT show up at the speedways - btw I'm superbiased in favor of speedways because if a car "can" do 240 mph, then let's see it... lap after lap after lap of close, wheel-to-wheel racing! Look 180 kph-65 kph-145 kph corners is cool, it really is, but it's just not needed here; I'm an OG from F1's V12 days, so I really am with you until it comes time for the off-track soap opera-dram that is F1 goes away and the racing 🥱 begins.
I love Indycar because I don’t know who’s going to win any given week. F1 has stretches where you can predict which teams or drivers will win with pretty good accuracy. F1 feels very commercial whereas indy car feels very raw. However, I love racing and I love both for multiple reasons
I sometimes feel you can know who will win the GP in F1 since thr practice session, you could be sure on qualy, race day is just like: "Ok lets see how the field after the 10th place finishes.
F1 is a quantum mechanics-level paradox: It is the least competitive series in motorsport AND it is the most competitive series in motorsport. I've had a ton of fun learning about it on RUclips and because the storylines and power dynamics seem to play out over such long periods, videos breaking down each season of the championship have been great fun to go through. But having completely predictable races that are sometimes devoid of passing (oh excuse me, "overtaking") gives me no incentive to heavily follow it week-to week-and watch the races. Granted, I am an uncultured swine who grew up watching NASCAR, but in all seriousness I find it incredibly hard to enjoy sports leagues that are fully uncapped and are nearly exclusively won by the teams that spent the most money. I have to imagine anyone that is a Mercedes fan is the kind of person whose other favorite teams are the Yankees, Patriots, Lakers, and Man U. Just the worst kind of sports fan. That all being said, I would kill to watch the F1 drivers run a race in the IndyCars (totally spec). It would be extremely fun and possibly enlightening to see the F1 drivers race against each other on a completely even playing field. So many arguments and what-ifs could be answered for F1 fans! Also perhaps some surprises...perhaps Mazepin smokes the field out of nowhere!! (Ok...definitely kidding on that one but maybe we'll never know who the greatest F1 driver of all time is...in theory it could be someone that had a mediocre career because they always had shit equipment.)
@@extragoogleaccount6061 only problem is see is the patriots were in fact under a cap system. Brady is a generational talent and bellichek is the best coach to ever walk the sidelines. All the other teams I Wholeheartedly agree though.
The f1 teams wouldent alow it with a current spec car sadley they are that protective of there secrets best you might get is a late 2000's spec car thats not even used for testing anymore
Exactly the same for me! That is why I have no problem when someone is dominating but don't confuse this with me thinking it's fun to watch because it isn't. But if you have come up with a ground breaking solution you should get rewarded for it which is usually the case if you dominating. Also then it's up to the competition to catch up which is part of the fun, imo. But it's interesting when a team gets "hate" for dominating I mean "hate" on the teams that wasn't as smart as the dominating team instead. Sometimes a dominating team is made out to be some kind of villain but at the same time I guess that narrative creates some drama in the paddock and sells headlines for the media. And we the fans have something to discuss also 😁
@Shannon Rehwinkel I never commented on the racing. You're right, it doesn't necessarily make it any better but I enjoy reading about the advancements the teams make. As it happens, I find oval racing incredibly boring (the rest of Indy seems fine to me). That's just my taste, it's great there are different options for different people
@@honkhonk8009 True, but regulations are there to stop things from spiraling out of control. If it was an open formula, then the series would eventually die. Just look at what happened to Group C racing.
@@honkhonk8009 If you think in the short term, then that can be the case. Long term however, engineers find workarounds, loopholes and innovations to gain whatever advantage they can. It's a bit like how corporate regulation can sometimes actually increase competition and profitability
I’m so sick of people arguing.. Can we all just agree that both of these Motorsport Leagues are both great in their own way. I wish INDYCAR would go international
"Mom, can we have F1?" "We have F1 at home." *looks at F2 "No no, the other one" "The place with circles?" "Yes" *looks at Nascar "No, the other one" "The place where F1 drivers give up the dream of being in F1?" "That's the one. Took ya long enough"
Hey hey... did you know that in terms of geometry an oval is not a circle but in terms of racing every track in the world is a circle? :) Also icydk - Indy and F1 share the same roots, Indy is the older series and most Indy drivers aren't former F1 drivers? :)
@@FloosWorld_AoE hey hey do you know what a joke is ? Also they didn't say indy car consists of majority ex F1 drivers, just where F1 drivers go after they give up the dream of racing in F1.
@@notshubhransh A joke has to be original and funny to be considered as one so no - this "ovals = circles haha left turn" thing is not a joke No, it isn't. It's just one series amongst many.
Lots of ignorance in that ‘joke’. It looks like the video just attracted and triggered the more toxic elements of the F1 fandom…and fandoms are by nature pretty nasty places.
Takuma Sato: Left without an F1 drive when Super Aguri folded four races into 2008 Teo Fabi: Fabi had endured a miserable rookie F1 campaign with Toleman in 1982, failing to qualify seven times and retiring on a further six occasions Justin Wilson: Wilson's experience of F1 was brief, a single season split between Minardi and Jaguar in 2003 a poor return for the promise he'd shown in winning the 2001 International Formula 3000 crown Dan Gurney: Nothing I can find. While competing in Formula One, Gurney also raced each year in the Indianapolis 500 from 1962 to 1970. Alexander Rossi: Rossi made no bones when he started his IndyCar career in 2016 that he would wait to see what opportunities opened up in F1 before committing his future to the US. But that changed after he took a shock Indianapolis 500 victory in his rookie year, which set him up for a fruitful Stateside switch. Jim Clark: History of racing different series at the same time. Never fully switched from F1 to Indy/Champcar. Bobby Rahal: Made his F1 debut with Wolf in the two North American races of 1978 after impressing in European F3. But hopes of a full-time drive in 1979 were dashed by new arrival James Hunt's insistence on a one-car operation and when Peter Warr over-looked Rahal to replace a demotivated Hunt mid-year, he returned to the US to race sportscars until motel mogul Jim Trueman approached him to set up an Indycar team. Alex Zanardi: Zanardi's F1 career with Jordan, Minardi and Lotus was a classic case of promise unfulfilled. Emerson Fittipaldi: Fittipaldi's Indycar career was a fruitful Indian summer for the double world champion, who had called time on his racing career after retiring from F1 in 1980. Nigel Mansell: He had won the 1992 world championship at a canter in the superior FW14B, but couldn't agree on a new contract with Frank Williams and accepted Carl Haas' offer of a fresh challenge in Indycar with Newman/Haas Racing. Etc.
The caption text interpreted saying that an F1 engine can make "a thousand horsepower" to can make "8,000 horsepower" That's a LOT MO' POWA' BABY!!!!!!
Well I definitely heard him say "8,000 horsepowers" and wondered just what he was talking about. Then I glanced at the screen and saw that it was supposed to be a thousand... I'm not surprised the speech recognition created capitation saying 8,000...
Producing 5g of downforce does not mean the engine has to move 5 times the weight. The mass stays the same. The wings do however create drag as well, that is what limits the top speed.
When those 5g of downforce is applied to a car, it adds to the gravitational force, and it feels like the engine has to move 5 time its weight. Its mass is the one that stayes the same
Downforce creates a larger normal force on tires which generates more grip. Downforce also creates drag which is a force that fights propulsion or acceleration in the opposite direction of motion simply put. It’s not as simple as 1500lbs. of downforce generates 1500lbs. of drag
one correction, having 5x downforce doesn't mean engine has to pull equal mount of mass, it is just that drag would be higher so engine has to work against the drag. drag and downforce are correlated but are not equal.
yep, mass is still the same. It generates more rolling resistance but its hardly measurable compared to air drag resistance at 230+ mph especially with high downforce configuration like F1. Acceleration is still reduced because X% of the power is used just to maintain speed against the high drag, only the rest is used for acceleration. not because of more weight/mass. At the same time, increased down force means MORE power to the ground exiting corners. for breaking, downforce helps twice, both increasing grip/max braking power, plus acting like air brakes. F1 with active aero would be completely insane
_"...doesn't mean engine has to pull equal [a]mount of mass..."_ I think part of his confusion may be from thinking about weight as opposed to mass, even though weight is irrelevant here. (Technically, it doesn't matter in the slightest what the car weighs: the acceleration you can achieve depends only on the car's mass and how much force you can apply through the tires. Keep this in mind if you're ever designing a car to race on Mars.) Depending on one's definition of weight [1] the car's weight or apparent weight may actually increase with downforce. (This would be an operational definition of weight, similar to those definitions where we say a parachutist or bungee jumper in free fall is "weightless" even though they're being pulled down by gravity just as much as someone standing on the ground.) But you're of course perfectly correct that the issue here is mainly drag, anyway, so regardless of definition of "weight" he's got it basically wrong. [1]:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weight#Definitions
@@Curt_Sampsonmass is the same on Mars but the low gravity means it would have shitty traction thus shitty acceleration. but much higher top speed thanks to low atmospheric pressure
Ive been following F1 and really enjoy it but most of what he said is true and accurate. Especially the cost to fans. F1 tickets/fan packages (if you can even get them) are ridiculously expensive. My son and I went to an Indy series race in Alabama several years ago and dropped less than $600 for the entire weekend, including hotel and pit passes. Indycar wins on that point!
The nice thing about indy is that since all of the cars are relatively the same, driver skill is a lot more important when your opponents can't just out spend you on parts and research. They actually have to outdrive you.
When you spend 150milion developing an F1 car you will pay the best drivers in the world to drive it. Driver skill has to be the ultimate otherwise you have thrown your money away. The F1 drivers also help to develop the car. They are recognised as the best drivers out their and F1 is ruthless if your standard drops.
@@bjs7442 I mean, half the time they're really not paying the drivers, it's more the drivers paying them. Latifi, Stroll, Mazepin, and now Zhou are in their seats because their dad's bring tens of millions in sponsorship money, not because they're the best. If that were the case, you'd see drivers like Ilott and Piastri being moved up from F2 instead.
@@detCap First Ilott is currently a test driver for Ferrari and reserve driver for Alfa. He came 2nd in 2020 in F2 so he has been recognised. Piastri has moved up and is now Alpines reserve driver . So not first team but inline for F1 . Similar to Lando who was reserve driver for Mclaren. When we look at the so called pay drivers. Latifi came second in F2 with 4 wins and beat George Russell on Sunday. Stroll won F4 and European F3 and Zhou came 2nd in F2 with three wins and was test driver for Renault last year. So yes you may classify them as pay drivers but they are also very talented drivers who have been in the top two in the lower divisions. They are capable of getting F1 drives without the money but with the money they are looked at more closely. That leaves Mazapin. He is less easy to justify except he was 5th in F2 and won the same number of races as Mick Schumacher and to be honest Haas would not be on the grid without him but he has struggled. So I would say three are their on merit and one is a paid driver. Only Hass really needs a paid driver.
F1 needs a balance of outdriving and outengineering. you couldn't put Nicholas Latifi in Red Bull's RB18 and expect him to win the championship, because he'd have a technological masterpiece underneath him but he couldn't drive the thing for jacksquat. and no, Latifi really ain't that great. he came 2nd in F2 but the grid that year wasn't very competitive (Schumacher, Zhou, etc. were rookies), and he's been convincingly beat by Russell (for 2 years) and Albono (for 7 races). it's pretty clear he's not up to snuff with the driving standard of F1. i don't think Stroll is either, since if you look at it Lawrence has been a major sponsor of both teams that Lance has raced for, and mayhaps he might have gotten into Williams by himself (i don't really know, i wasn't an F1 follower back then) but he definitely didn't get signed to Racing Point on merit. this is his 6th season in F1 and the only notable moments he's really had are Azerbaijan 2017, Turkey 2020, Monza 2020, and Sakhir 2020, and the latter two were almost definitely a result of circumstance
I'm surprised they didn't talk about how racing in Indy car is so much closer and more competitive. I love F1 but the dominance and predictably gets a bit boring sometimes. Hopefully with the new regs that will change
IndyCar does do a good job of close racing, but that's never going to be the strength of open-wheelers. Touring cars of any category really are the kings of that kind of racing, which is why the only racing series I consistently watch alongside F1 is Supercars (despite being held on the other side of the globe and therefore airing at stupid hours).
I agree, part of the issue seems to be the constant rules changes, I don’t know why they simply don’t give the faster cars a weight penalty like other series 🤔
9:43 damn that engineering degree came up a bit short on this explaination Downforce doesn’t affect power to weight at all, it just increases grip for corners, and adds a lot of drag of course Really weird that drag was hardly even mentioned in explaining why the F1 car has a lower top speed since he’s talked about it before
is kinda odd he did that. Point is the downforce does relate to drag but not 1:1 And the expensive bit is getting more downforce with less drag. Aero just a tiny bit more slippery for the same downforce is fuel efficiency just a smidge more downforce for the drag is grip. So the
Yeah, funny thing is I had the same thought experiment a number if years ago. And realized that yeah, the motor is fighting the drag and not the increased "weight" due to down force.
I KNOW RIGHT! Drag, sure... Rolling resistance, small increase but yes.... But wtf with the weight man, mass doesn't have anything with the downforce. I can't believe we had to mention this here.
If f1 ever came to an oval racetrack, they come with oval aero package. The topspeed will be absolutly ridiculous then. And f1 have an extra power deployment with the hybrid systems.
If that's true, why don't they race here any more? Answer...they don't like being beaten by Americans. They do, however, like being saved by Americans.
@@patscally5390 Because F1 is not fun when going around circles. F1 is fun when there is a combination of straights, high speed corners and low speed corners
There isn’t a single driver in their prime that was succeeding in F1 that has moved over to Indy. Grosjean is the most recent transfer. A back of the pack driver in F1 making an immediate impact in Indy. Just signed with 1 of the 3 top Indy teams. The bottom of the barrel F1 drivers are what Indy gets.
Bottom of the barrel F1 drivers are good drivers (unless they are paydrivers, that sometimes can be mediocre). F1 is an engineering competition above all, so a good driver can have a terrible car and there isn't much he can do. Fernando Alonso in McLaren-Honda for example. Indicar is just cheaper, and that allows more people to get in. So many people gets dropped before getting to F1 because they can't find enough sponsors for paying for their seat.
But what about Nigel Mansell? It was the 1990s so not exactly relevant to today's convo, but there was a single succeeding F1 driver who moved to Indy after winning the World Championship.
@@wjmichael Indeed, Mansell for a week held both titles, and on top of that before his death Senna had planned to move over to IndyCar to do the same. Then there's Alonso skipping the Monaco Grand Prix to do the Indy500, and F1 moving Monaco to allow drivers to be able to attend it without missing a race. The simple fact is that while F1 fans have little respect for IndyCar, F1 drivers, teams and the organisation itself hold it in high regard.
@@wjmichael He wasn't able to keep his seat because of Prost. Williams in the 90s was known for throwing even championship winning drivers under the bus.
I grew up with both F1 (be cause of the Dutch grand prix when I was young, before it went away for 35 years) and Indy (Because of Arie Luyendyk) and love both. Cars might look the same but they are totally different classes. one is not better than the other imho, just different.
I’ll be honest, as a lifelong F1 fan, it’s been quite stale for the past few years and only the odd race has been gripping (usually when something happens to Mercedes and it suddenly becomes competitive). This season has been much better with the likes of Alpine, McLaren, Aston Martin, and Ferrari edging closer to Mercedes and Red Bull. But it’s still not competitive enough. And nowhere near as competitive as IndyCar. Sure, the slowest F1 car could trounce the fastest IndyCar around any track apart from an oval, but that’s not the point. IndyCar has fantastic looking cars, brilliant young drivers and legends alike (Jimmie Johnson aside). And both the races and tracks are so bloody fun to watch. When Helio Castroneves won at Indy this year and ran along the track, there were tears.The only thing that came close to that in F1 in recent memory was when Pierre Gasly won at Monza. I’ve watched IndyCar on and off since before Dan Wheldon died and every year since, I’ve found myself drawn towards it more than F1. I still fully believe that F1 is the pinnacle of motor racing with the very best tracks (Spa, Silverstone, MONZA!), machines and drivers. You just have to look at how well Grosjean (with all due respect - an F1 journeyman) is doing in his rookie season. But IndyCar is competitively way beyond F1 right now and has been for some time. In fact the latter is barely a competition. And thus IndyCar is simply more fun to watch. I don’t like that drivers can just jump into a car for one race in the season or refuse to do certain races, if they’re so inclined, but I guess having the freedom to so is cool in its own way.
There are equally magnificent, if less iconic, tracks in America. The problem is the average European motorsports fan has limited exposure to/knowledge of these tracks.
Another main point is Indy car is hard to follow. Lot of nameless teams, inconsistent number of drivers, inconsistent liveries, only American event. Where F1, you generally have good constructor teams, and consistent number of drivers per team, world wide event. Which makes it feel more organized.
Hello, Donut dudes! Love the video, but you got a bit of it wrong. Romain Grosjean and Kevin Magnussen didn’t race in the 2021 Indy 500. While they’ve both ran Indy Car races this year, they skipped that one.
@@kurtispotts9097 his run at Gateway, while not a good finishing position at the end, gave him the confidence to do a full-season to include more ovals. If you watched the Gateway race, he was easily the man to watch as he was making passes that are usually too risky as either you are likely to catch the wall or wear through your tires faster if you manage to save your car.
A summary: F1 teams spend more money but get cutting edge tech in motorsport, more horsepower, faster lap times, and more variability between teams. Indy teams spend less money because they all buy the same exact car but go faster in a straight line
But F1 is boring so whats the point of being technological pinnacle of motorsport when the racing is boring 95 percent of the time since 2015. Lucky i followed F1 since 1995. Who ever hasnt followed before 2015 has missed out. variability between teams... where, everyone just copies top 2 or 3 teams, especially if they are customer team. Also everyone having athe same car doesnt really mean every car has the same speed, also similar power levels showcase driver skills more, you also need to be riskier. also Ross Brawn needs to ban DRS for good
F1 fans never fail to disappoint when it comes to smugness. The whole paradox is that F1 is the “pinnacle” of motorsports, but magnifies everything wrong with motorsports. Insane costs, 1-3 genuinely competitive teams, super-cut throat driver development, fan experience tailored to the uber rich, so technologically advanced there’s no practical way of implementing that tech into production cars, a fan base with a giant superiority complex. All other forms of motorsports suffer from the same problems but on a much smaller scale, the difference though is the blindspots F1 fans seem to have towards their own issues. Current F1 is unsustainable, and the governing body knows that, hence the change to a car that oddly enough, resembles the modern IndyCar concept rather than a continuation of the current crop of uber, technological advanced F1 cars. For decades it’s always been a battle of a handful of teams, but the last few years have been rough. A handful of surprise winners and mid pack battles don’t make up for almost 10 years of a single team’s dominance, especially when that single team is spending almost a billion dollars to achieve it.
@@joshcorvette the 2022 car is just a prototype and it will look very different once team work on their version. F1 isn’t a spec series. What’s the point of having another spec series, it would be no different from IndyCar if it was + most of the current drivers on the grid have come through the ranks in F3/F2 which are spec junior series.
Downforce units are in kgf, wich is different from kg. Kg is mass and kgf is force. Two different things. Mass dos not change (exept from the fuel burned), but (down)force changes with velocity in a race car.
I like vintage racing better than modern. Those old car's just dance all over the track and the drivers have to man handle them. Modern race car's with all there electronics make the cars predicable. Lap after lap of little to no action just keeping there places for the most part.
F1 is in its own league Indycar is comparable to F2. difference is F2 is for junior drivers mostly so if you get dropped by an F1 team, Indycar is where you go. I'd say the title is very misleading.
Best difference Indy car 2018 St Petersburg race had 366 on track passes F1 entire 2017 season 435 overtakes. Although to be fair F1 is much more strict on what constitutes a pass. I’ll keep enjoying both and continuing to think the similarities stop at open wheel racing
@@nvrndingsmmr Indy didn't have enough talented people to make R&D of these cars, and that's why it's spec car series and indycars are made by Europeans(dallara) xD
@@patrykroszak7339 That's just stupid. Spec is cost cutting measures and recovery from the CART/IRL split that about ruined OWR in the States. And the chassis used by Indycar are researched, developed, and made in Indianapolis Indiana, in the good ole USA.
They forgot to mention how tight the field is with a lot of drivers being able to fight for wins all of them from different teams, this season i can recall penske,ganassi,Andretti,Dale Coyne,Ed carpenter racing, meyer shank racing and Rahal Letterman Laningan racing all of them having won a race or having been in position to do it. Also some of those teams like Andretti,Penske and ganassi have more than 2 drivers (in fact those 3 have i think 4 drivers) and at least in penske and ganassi case, all of them have a chance at winning (and most of them have won) The championship is crazy tight as well, for example the top 3 before the last race was between O'Ward,Palou and Dixon, but only O'Ward is in the top three now. Now, some people don't have good opinions about ovals but i would say watch the last race or the indy 500 and you see that they can be fun as well, sometimes even more than road courses, they bring something different to the table(and from what I see they're the best races to go to as an spectator since well you can see the whole track pretty much)
Then this might: at any given race in Indy, there are at least a dozen different drivers in contention for a win. Hell, Ericsson, a mediocre by F1 standards who was barely able to score points and was shunned by every single team mate he ever had, recently won at Nashville with a car that literally took off during the first laps. At F1, provided neither Lewis Hamilton/Mercedes or Max Verstappen/Red Bull do anything stupid, then it's a pretty straight forward W for either or. And this is a good year in terms of competition, whereas in 2019 and especially 2020, only Hamilton was really in contention for anything (one of the races he 'lost' was due to Covid absence, to give you an idea). But yeah, overall these two paragraphs would've fit within a minute or two of video.
@@ethandrake5380 Romain Grosjean, a fairly average driver in F1, has even been competitive in a RWR car. A team that, in NASCAR, can't even stay on the lead lap for more than a couple minutes. Oh and Grosjean is technically a rookie.
I love IndyCar. Alonso got me to love it and I like how former F1 drivers have been successful in it, heck I think its more competitive than F1. I have watched full Indy 500 races on RUclips. All the points you talked about is what I was expecting in the video but I didn't get.
Bro why does he try to convince us indycar is better than F1 because it costs less. Like we don't care about the price we're not out here buying teams.
I find Indy harder to follow. So many more drivers, some that only race road, others that race both road and oval. But I watched Indy GP this year and it was sick. And i watched a compilation of Indy at cota and it was some of the craziest racing I've seen.
Nobody talks about this aspect of Indy and Nascar. Formula 1 is very neat in it's team and driver lineup (this is why it works for Netflix even though more people globally watch Nascar). I love Indy and have followed it for about 3 years now, but I can only name half of the drivers, and I don't get any "drama" outside of the green light and the checkered flag. This is fine for many, but I like a little side spice to go with the racing.
@@TeeTafoya87 no mate formula one is far more popular than nascar world wide, NASCAR is pretty much only watched in America but F1 is watched by people from all around the world
Kudos for a provocative video title, but few drivers would leave a competitive _F1_ seat for any other motorsport. Heck, many would even remain in a mediocre _F1_ seat, hoping to progress to a more competitive one.
@@finn.linn.1250 add kimi forgiving the 3 million Lotus owed him and he saying he would retire when it stopped being fun. The man is a legend! one of my favorites along Lauda and Hakkinen.
@@mtiotps2110 I wouldn't say honor, more like for the thrill of driving the fastest machine ever built. I just pointed out a case of someone forgiving 3 million in wages but you just went past it and asserted your view, I guess you can't reason with everybody.
IndyCar would be just as popular as F1 if it wasn't for the fact that USAC, the second Indy sanctioning body, had a split that spawned CART, later to become Champ Car, both vying for views against each other in a time before online streaming services. It also doesn't help that people really only know IndyCar for the Indy 500.
Are you talking about power output bump from that, or DRS, or both? Edit, I had been multitasking during that part and rewatched. Yes, you're right. Even without DRS, that button is used for defending and can drain the battery quick for defense, nice catch.
There are some differences between the two, still. IIRC, the Indycar button has a time delay, so you can't just hit it wherever you see someone using their's. If you try to press it in response to an overtake, the overtake will have already completed by the time the boost kicks in. Use it too early, and you risk the chasing car drafting you, and also wastes seconds that could have been used to secure your own passes.
I am a huge F1 fan and the amount of cope i'm seeing is so funny. F1 can learn so many things from Indy to be a better sport (removal of blue flags, dual camera broadcast). Both sports are great.
So what formula 1 has to learn is removing the flag that tells the driver that's being lapped to get out of the way given that he has no business figthing the driver that's lapping him and a camera that would add weight to the car a thing that is the biggest problem on f1 cars at the moment lmao.
@@someguy5487 First of all, removing blue flags only adds to the fun of the sport and strategy. If you are truly faster than the car you are lapping you should overtake them on track. Removing blue flags gives us more overtaking and it solves the weird situations where there are 2 lapped cars fighting and neither wants to slow down. As for your second points, there are already a lot of cameras on the F1 car, they are just not broadcasted as well as Indy car cameras. I'm pretty sure they still have 360 cameras from 2018 but they never show them. The indy broadcast production is a lot better, often showing multiple onboards at the same time with 360 cameras.
Thanks for the Video title that just invites an argument. That being said, I'll bite. This video does nothing to explain why Indy is better than F1. It only explains why Indy is less expensive than F1. Claiming Indy cars are faster is bullshit. If F1 designed and trimmed out a car for an "Oval" they would be just as fast or faster. But as you mentioned, on a road course like COTA. where the track is the same, the F1 cars are 11+ Seconds faster per lap On a 1:30 Lap for an F1 car (I Believe it's more, but ehh). Which means in less than Ten Laps an F1 Car would Lap an Indy Car in a 60+ lap race. That being said, I am not trying to look down on Indy Car vs F1. They are completely different things. People don't seem to understand F1 is a Constructors Championship (IE: Who can build the fastest car) Indy is a drivers championship. One where F1 drivers win, Like Erickson. F1 is about developing the highest level of technology and eventually having that trickle down to road cars. IE: Soon they will be using BIO Fules. They are completely different things and there is no more reason to compare them than there is to compare MMA to Boxing. But as an American, I can see why people from other Countries see something like this, with it's completely incomplete context and think American's are snobs. All that being said - How many retired or fired Indy car drivers become F1 drivers vs the other way around? Clearly it's much easier to drive in Indy car vs F1, regardless of cost and all the other factors mentioned.
I agree and look at what the F1 teams did during Covid using their technology to design respirators . A lot of F1 technology ends up improving road cars
Indycar cars are much faster at top speed when they use the oval setup where they use only 500 HP of power but with the aerodynamics simplified to the maximum. Comparing both on road circuits is stupid because F1 has many advantages: more than 300 horsepower, superior downforce, power steering, much better mechanical grip, electronic aids, etc. Indycar can also be much faster on road circuits, do you forget that Dallara manufactures the HAAS cars and the Japanese super-formula cars that have a cornering similar to F1? Indy in the 80-90s already had engines of more than 1000 hp and they were only 3 to 5 seconds slower than F1 at that time and only because they were more aerodynamically unloaded. The FIA does everything possible so that no indy driver races in F1, instead indy accepts any driver whether it is from F1 or supercars, it is mainly a matter of regulations and money.
Can someone explain to me why not? I’m thinking downforce is making the car appear heavier (5x at points) than the car is, which is making the engine think it’s 3750kg instead of 750kg… similar to a Mini Cooper engine trying to move a dump truck.. just not enough power? (Don’t take my comparisons literal, just trying to be educated differently)
@@jasony9950 heres a quick rundown: weight is a Force measured in Newtons. Mass is property of an object measured in kilograms. Force that are at an 90 degree angle have nothing to do with eachother. Forward and downward are at a 90 degree angle. a=F/m so the engine outputs F amount of force through the tires and accelerates the car that has a mass of m by a. I repeat MASS=/=WEIGHT, screw common tounge for this bs. So just because the car that has a mass of 750kg and weights 7500N get an additional 30000N of downforce, the mass doesnt increase by 3000kg so the engine still has to work only with 750kg so the a will be the same
6:53 you forgot that F1 has ERS with it´s own overtake button that works the same, the only difference is that in F1 it´s electric power instead of the bigger turbo boost in IndyCar
9:52 the downforce doesn’t affect the momentum of the car. Only the drag will affect the top speed of the car, and how fast it will get there. There is a reason land speed cars are usually around than 10000lbs and have very little aero downforce/drag.
I would like to point out 2 things: 1- Top speed doesn't depend on the vertical weight, but just on drag. 2- F1's at a highspeed oval would just need a special low-downforce and low-drag aero set up and they would go faster than Indy.
Probably, but not that much, since on an oval there are no coasting or braking zones to charge up the battery which is responsible for a lot of time gain in F1! The current Powertrain only works on twisty circuits with a lot of speed changes
9:50 isn't exactly true. Downforce does not increase the inertial mass. What the downforce elements do is to add drag in order to create that downforce.
Having watched f1 live and had one of my relatives compete in a lower tier formula series (formula 4 and 3) I prefer f1, but indycar is great and would love to watch it more often
Well they have that one chick that races in 24 hours of Lemons. They could easily build an actual Donut Media car since she has a team outside of Donut. Or work on the Zacks MX-5 a little more if needed and run it in autocross. Or even hot lap events.
Just FYI, you are confusing downforce and drag when it comes to the different top speeds. ;) And Indy aero is slightly more complicated than what one engineer can figure out in an afternoon...
@@RyanXWing good and successful f1 drivers (not necessarily champions only) also drive in other series from time to time you never hear them saying that kinda thing. I don’t recall Alonso ever saying that he prefers indy, endurance or rally in fact he decided to go back to f1 to a non top team
at the very least kevin and roman had f1 podiums you don’t hear them saying that kinda thing, that comment is reserved for truly mediocre f1 careers like ericsson’s
9:40 “the faster the car goes, the more it weighs” Uhhhh, no. It has drag, yes, and the tires/chassis experience the effects of the downforce, but there’s still no mass added so it’s not the same thing.
![ARGENTINA vs. PERÚ [1-0] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 12](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xtI25ENDDSY/mqdefault.jpg)
The thing with F1 is that it ain't always competitive, unlike indy where all teams are very close. But a competitive F1 season is something no other sport can match. That's just my opinion
I would agree but I think it's because F1 nowadays is so dominated by 2-3 teams every year, when it does get competitive people take notice because it's unusual. But that's just my opinion too as an F1 fan
The other thing is that part of what makes F1 so interesting over indycar is the ridiculously intricate politics. Half of it is the off-track drama lol
@@OneNightIn93 case in point, Horner vs Wolff vs Masi. I can't stand any of them, but it is very entertaining
There's way more variance in F1. Great F1 is better than great IndyCar, but bad F1 is worse than bad IndyCar. Plus F1 has the engineering component, which is super appealing to some of us
@@OneNightIn93 competition isnt always for place 1
Indycar is like the Imperial system, the US is proud of having its own thing, even though the whole world uses the metric system, and watches F1.
😂😂
As an American, this analogy is great, cause i dont want the Imperal, and no 1 here like F1 but i do, so i feel like a European stuck in America );
Great analogy.
Also, there are Canadians watch/use both.
I like fast cars, but I don't watch car racing. Highlights are all I need, otherwise, it's more boring than watching golf.
Right except that F1 is more popular than indycar in the states
They aren’t “losing drivers to Indy car”
Drivers are getting dropped and going to Indy car. Huge difference.
Exactly !!!!! Because they aren’t good enough to be in f1
And the fact that this man just said more downforce = more weight 😂😂😂😂
@@jordanbowen6136 not really most drivers in IndyCar are all good enough for F1 but don't have the money. Someone like Grosjean should be in F1 but just had bad cars so couldn't compete at the front so was look at as a bad driver but with IndyCar everyone has a chance to win because its equal
@@maxb148 Id argue most IndyCar drivers aren't good enough for F1
@@jordanbowen6136 So Kevin Mag is worse than Mazepin?
Grosjean is worse than Yuki tsunoda?
Your logic is extremely flawed
What I tell strangers: I’ve done a lap at Indy. What I don’t tell them: it was in a VW bus with a bunch of other tourists.
Lmao
I did a lap in Monaco. It was in a Renault with a couple of gals in the car with me.
Interesting part is the F1 race was in about 10 days and they were already setting up the grandstands and pits.
I ran the Daytona speedway.
(...in a Pontiac Fiero on the unsloped inner loop)
I have done laps at Indy. There is a program where you can learn how to drive an Indycar. The last I knew it was $1000. They have the speeds governed at 180 mph, which is much slower than the 230 mph the pros drive. But, it's plenty fast enough for a newbie, especially since you are sitting so low, it feels very fast.
Not exactly losing them, it's more like a place were F1 drivers without a seat and young guys that don't get their chance in F1 can go, and it's great because Indycar is the biggest open wheel series outside F1.
i'm a huge Formula1-Fan since i can remember (around end of the 80's - the clearest Memorys from early 90's) but Indy Cart is the better Series for "Driver can make the Difference" and for "pure racing" - but F1 is still the Top-Series over all - i hope the Teams come nearer to eachother in the following Years (new Cars, Budgetcap...).
but yes, Indy-Cart is the best open-wheel-series after Formula 1.
i wish i could watch it (and NASCAR) in Switzerland :-/
@@DeshWitus well if you're ever in the states for a race I suggest being in the infield, it's a fun vibe just a day event talking with strangers about anything and day drinking. Indy 500 is a great experience
I have been to both F1 and Indy car races. F1 races are superior in everyway. Cooler cars, better looking women, and much better beer.
donut media are a bunch of muppets lol
@@DeshWitus Cause F1 in its orginal was not a competition between drivers, but between car manufacturers, it was to see who can buy the fastest car, later on driver skills were of importance as well.
While I enjoy watching indy from time to time I wouldn’t say F1 is losing drivers. Those who changed to indy basically lost a seat in f1, I can’t imagine a F1 driver in his prime switching on purpose
Exactly
Totally agree. The drivers that head to Indy car are generally the ones who couldn't compete in F1, even in the midfield. If you look at the opposite, there have been a few top caliber Indy drivers (Seb Bourdais for example) who come to F1 and are terrible.
@@jeffreypleau191 some of F1s greats have driven indycar/cart
I realize that this happened decades ago, and this is really the only time I remember something like this happening, but........... Nigel Mansell switched the year after he won his '92 f1 championship..... Of course he then won the cart championship in '93. Again I know this was a LONG time ago, and it really doesn't hold true today in the context of what you are saying. Kimi and Fernando both took time off of F1, but Kimi only competed in 2 nascar truck races, and Fernando only ran the Indy 500 once. The following year he attempted but failed to qualify at Indy. So yeah the F1 series is a proven test ground for future Indycar talent, but no one with a pulse is EVER going to call F1 a feeder series.
FORZA FERRARI!! 🏁
@NolanEP there’s no tc in F1 nowadays
F1 is not really “losing” drivers to Indy - If and when F1 drivers get dropped or retire from F1 they go to Indy.
Exactly
That’s not a very good title though
Young talents also tend to go there if they don't get the huge amount of funding that is needed for F1
The title sounds a 'clickbaity' lol
@@FRONTI3R_yt its all because u f1 fanboys are Nancy's!
9:40 - having 5 g's of downforce DOES NOT mean the engine has to move 5g's of weight. He is confusing downforce with drag
Elaborate please
Downforce does produce drag and that makes the car slower but that's beside the point, downforce doesn't increase mass but you can sort of argue it increases weight
@@07_danishwistara29 heh, that's an interesting point. The engine is moving the mass, not the weight. Also, ground effect aero increases downforce while barely adding any drag
5 G's means 5 times earths gravity... So its just a wrong term to use when talking static downforce. I think he meant the cars can pull 5 G's of lateral force in the corners... But most American shows really dont give a shit about being accurate :/ Unless its smarter every day, but even he tries to dumb it down so much. Still love destin regardless, keeps everyone on the same page
@@Captain_Coleslaw I think donut media is well researched most of the time. I mean with the amount of content they post you can’t really fault them for a couple of blips here and there
I'm really glad that Romain and Kevin found a motorsport they can enjoy and actually be competitive in. HAAS is a freaking curse for drivers lol and I pray for Mick Schumacher in his upcoming years.
EDIT: I'm going to have to revoke what I said in this comment after seeing Kevin in the HAAS out-qualify George in the Mercedes today. Looking forward to an exciting race tomorrow!
P.S. Forza Ferrari
Edit Part 2:
Mick scored his first points in F1 finally.
P.P.S. I wish Ferrari would get it together.
Honestly was a bummer to see the issues KMags car had at Le Mans, would have been cool to see the father son duo really challenge
I started watching f1 drive to survive (terrible name) recently and Haas is where talent goes to die in grosjeans case the Bahrain Grand Prix was close
With the rumors that Chip G has "wooed" Grojean and Coines will bring in Albon next year... F1 is still the best, but Indycar is where the rest will play. The guys who can't play int the tippy top still havs a chance to rock n roll at what they love. 😃
Micky is paying for the seat to get experience and is getting financial help from ferrari for obvious reasons.
Mick has a contact with Ferrari, so I think he'll have a way out if he wants
Same video, but different titles according to nationally:
- American: yeaah we are the best, just better, reason doesn't matter
- Canadian: both F1 and Indy are equally great
- Brits: Americans and their superiority complex again...
- Italian: as long as their are buying our engines and tyres it doesn't matter
As italian, you're goddamn right
And aero
awesome cars are America's greatest contribution to the world. it's. it that we have a superiority complex. a lot of us in America are just raised to be competitive and to love anything with wheels. the problem with American society and he competitive mindset that's engrained, is there isn't often lessons in humility to balance that. and to be fair. the Aussies are the same way as we Americans are when it comes to muscle cars. they want to be the best. that's why I love Australian motorsports as an American.
@@preston2636 you just turned topic about F1/indy into an argument about muscle cars... Is that an American thing to do? Does it support the original comment? :D
These are all jokes please there's no need for military action here. I surely don't want an american military base in my back garden
Italians have that sigma grindset
F1: penalizes race leader in season opener for track limit violations.
Indycar: if it's gray, it's okay.
“If it’s paved it’s a track”
Picture how wild F1 would be if they didn't have track limits!
@@daboiracing3848 the French grand prix WOULD BE CHAOS
@@daboiracing3848 just look at the 2020 Spa 24 hours qualifying
@@daboiracing3848 honestly it would just be races between the 2 richest companies
These 2 sports are different and should both be enjoyed by everyone. F1 is awesome for one thing and Indy car for another. Like on some weekends waking up early to watch an f1 race and Waiting for the afternoon for an indy race.
I went to an Indycar race at Watkins Glen, a few years ago. and the race itself almost wasn’t the main event. The pits were wide open. The Ferrari challenge series and some Fiat Club were there as well. There was also a Maserati MC12 in the pits. The whole experience was crazy cool.
Hey, I was at that same race. Last Indycar race at the Glen sadly. I wish they'd return, I love that track.
American racing is a for the people kind of event, while F1 seems too be more posh. NASCAR is a great experience as a fan, as on TV you can see the drivers in their cars taking questions from the commentators, fans often get souviners like lugnuts or tires (i have a ton of hats from the pit crew of team penske, as well as lugnuts and an unused tire), and the atmosphere is just relaxed and happy.
@@antonym24 Yeah, at the Glen I basically strolled into the pits no questions asked. Saw Mario Andretti driving around on a scooter and he stopped and chatted with my father and I for a bit.
I live in Campbell (30 minutes away from WGI) and try to go to every non NASCAR WGI event. Its just so inviting to race fans.
Its too bad FIA won't let F1 return to WGI given its history with F1
It would actually be a good thing. Mexico, Texas, WGI, Canada
Indycar was the main event, those are just other things that go on. They happen at all F1 races too. F2, f3, Porsche cup, vintage F1, etc.
Better title: "Why are ex F1 drivers who didn't get a contract in F1 going to Indycar"
Or 'The difference and financial difference between F1 and Indycar"
Thank you !
Question: "Why is audience watching F2, Indy, F3, NASCAR, F4, Xtreme-E, Formula E, even karting races rather than F1?"
Answer: Because the cars in those series are much closer. In F1 there was only Mercedes for 7 years in a row. To enable one driver to break records. Not even for a good cause, just for politics. And we know one thing about politics: It's boooooorrrrring. Politics is boring. And chases away the audience.
@@cinegraphics FormulaE is trash, it's just everyone driving into each other.
@@cinegraphics touché Mercedes has been padding lewis’s stats but just say you havent been watching this season because the grid with the exception of Haas has become more competitive
Got into Indy this year because of Grosjean and I’ve been loving it. F1 is awesome because of the theatrics and grand scale of it all but Indy is cool because of the DIY feeling of it and the fact that it puts the racing first.
I like the standard set of drivers in F1 that appear in every race with maybe an exception or two every year along with the distinctive liveries of mostly solid colors that are identical between teammates. It makes it easy to keep track of who is who on the racetrack. In indycar I have no idea who is who.
Yes!!!!!😂
Tried watching Indy this season, the cars liveries changed almost weekly!
One week, Grosjean was in a mostly orange car, the following week the car was green!
How are you supposed to follow your favourite driver when its like playing 'Where's Waldo?' At 200mph?
Also, Indy cars are soulless.
yeah fcking hell it's like you need notes for every race just to keep track who is who
Thats because almost the whole grid is full of pay drivers who have to reflect who is paying for that car. Rather than having team sponsors.
Skill issue 🤷
The best commonality between Indy Car and F1 is that both the current Indy Car aero regulations and the upcoming F1 rules have created good looking open wheel race cars.
I love the way current f1 cars look
@@Rltvader1 As much as I want to see how 22 regs go for racing, the new cars look a little weird. Might just be because were all used to the current cars' look
@@Rltvader1 i loved the 2009 cars and 2016 cars
just me?
@@stratis722 The "halo" ring thing is somewhat still distasteful to see. Had they modified it properly it would be very beautiful for both drivers, audiences, and the teams.
I watched the whole video and now I'm convinced that F1 is definitely better than IndyCar.
Güzel laf
mercades suck now, and they have won the last 6 titles. So F1 is great to marvel but its sometimes easy come, easy go. Makes it harder as fan to believe ur man at any given season can get ruined with some changes to rules. Vettle for example was owning(4 titles in a row) now he cant win anything. Then hamiltion wins 7 in a row, now some random in was shit ferrari is now winning. Hard to bother watching so indy in this regard does not have this radical leader swaps.
@@psukkar "shit Ferrari" they were shit because they were driving under restrictions. They were never shit
Me too, I'm half way through the video thinking, when is he gonna stop giving reasons F1 is better lol
@@psukkar You forgot about Rosberg in 2016. Epic battle.
"At 5 Gs of downforce, the engine has to move 5 times the car's weight."
This is absolutely, demonstrably untrue.
Glad somebody else caught that 😅
Makes me think of the video where Tom Scott talks about how so many people are just saying stuff without any citations or references and asking you to trust them. Errors like this are in my opinion quite devastating for the trustworthiness of a channel like Donut Media.
ruclips.net/video/leX541Dr2rU/видео.html&ab_channel=TheRoyalInstitution
Wait, so what does it mean?
@@lambda6iceman Downforce isnt the same as weight. The only disadvantages from downforce is the aerodynamic drag which wings create, and the weight of the wings itself.
If what this video was suggesting was true, then big trucks would be a good option at the indy 500😂
@@lambda6iceman
With 5 Gs of aerodynamic downforce it means the car is experiencing an APPARENT weight of 5 times gravity. If you could measure the force each tire was pushing down on the track at that moment, then adding them up would indeed equal 5 times the car's weight. But, this has nothing to do with the car's actual mass, or weight, which isn't really changing at all. The engine of a high downforce car has to work harder because high aerodynamic downforce cars also produce relatively high aerodynamic drag, not because the weight of the vehicle is changing.
Sorry, but Donut dropped the ball on this one. Jeremiah, or whoever wrote this episode is displaying a fundamental ignorance of physics, and he refers to the same concept a few times, so this isn't a momentary lapse of reason, he's married to the idea.
Lap record at circuit of the americas:
Indycar = 1:46
Formula 1 = 1:32
14 seconds is a huge difference. That is the same difference between a Lamborghini and a Mini Cooper going round silverstone. It isn't even close
To be honest I'm actually surprised a Mini Cooper was able to finish only 14 seconds behind a Lamborghini
@@josephius it was grass fed and free range
14 seconds on one lap is an eon
This guy will probably compare their prices like with the engines. What a bullshit video.
But does that translate to quality and entertainment value of the racing? I'm not convinced it does.
Indycar would be great if I didn’t have to watch 20 minutes of ad breaks for every 10 minutes of race footage
Peacock! Boom! (Yeah you can't watch the race live)
Welcome to American programming, it’s awful. Like a football(soccer) match takes at most 2 hours, an American football game takes around 4 hours to watch because of all the stoppages and commercials
Sky do a good job without ads
Bingo, F1 will always be better just because I don't have to watch ads for car insurance.
Finally someone said it
Enough fuel to last a whole 2 hour race:
Laughs in 2021 Belgian gp
As if Indy even races in the rain at all. Dumb
Read this at the same time he said it. Nice
@@TangoNevada
They do, just not on the ovals.
@Damar Fadlan I guess you didn't see the extent of the rain.
@@TangoNevada IndyCar would have ran the whole race on Monday if the conditions had improved.
Downforce actually increases the frictional force between the tires and the track *without* increasing the car's mass. That's the whole point, otherwise your cornering acceleration is limited to your friction coefficient x gravity.
Since the wings run at such high (negative) angles of attack, they make a sh*tton of drag though, which limits the speed.
You talk about over rationalizing something to come back to your butthole just to admit to the same thing you were trying to over rationalize🙄
@@joeyjohnson4826 By gravity, I mean the gravitational acceleration (9.8 m/s/s on Earth) which is independent of mass.
He literally said that downforce increases the weight of the car, which is incorrect. Downforce squeezes the car against the track harder while still keeping the car light.
@@mikekalb nah you're wording it wrong. if you look at the design philosophy behind the r35 gtr the car was purposefully made heavier to force the tires against the ground and deliver more grip, therfore the increased weight from downforce increases frictional grip.
@@joeyjohnson4826 what?
@@mikekalb weight is simply mass x acceleration. If you're providing an extra force that pushes down (downforce) which adds to gravity, your car's weight increases. Its mass does not.
Thing is Indy is more F2 than F1 in a few ways. They both use manual steering, similar spec chassis and even the power unit.
F1 and Indy are different levels.
But the difference is how competitive the field is. Not two drivers winning, but a whole field of competitive driver and they also can hit 230 mph and have amazing close racing. F1 isn’t attainable and is corrupt. The drivers talent is shown rather than the car
Best reply that donut normies will never get
@@KyleFerguson17 agreed
You are comparing apples to oranges…Indy is far more than a ‘spec’ series. There are too many differences to the series to compare the two, but Indy is unfortunate enough to be somewhat similar and therefore attracts the vitriol and hate of F1 fans..not Motorsport fans, who can appreciate multiple series, but ‘F1 fans’ who only follow the single Motorsport and see bashing Indy as an opportunity to be petty and often attaching snide comments aimed at Americans in general.
And often the bashers are British I have noticed! What is with British sports fans?! They are truly the epitome of toxic.
@@mamavswild I am comparing F2 to Indy as F1 and Indy are not comparable as every F1 driver can be an Indy driver, but not every Indy driver can be an F1 driver. You need a special licence for F1 and you need to have success in Indy or F2 to get the licence. Once you have that licence (Superlicence) you can race anything.
F2 cars are very similar to Indy Cars in size and engines, even the same company makes the chassis. Just look up the specifications of an F2 car and an Indy car and you will see exactly that. F2 is a 100% spec series and IndyCar is a 90% spec series in that Indy has two types of engines to choose from where F2 has one, otherwise in both you are limited to minor setup changes with every other component made to the same specifications by a single manufacturer.
In F1, everything is custom made by the teams and you have 4 power unit suppliers. Teams have vastly different design concepts and some cars may look similar, but their designs are quite different. Some components are “spec” and made by one manufacturer and some can be shared by teams, but as a whole, F1 teams must design their own cars.
Christian Lundgaard made the direct jump from F2 to Indy and said it was fairly easy for him to be competitive because they are quite similar cars.
Drivers who have driven F1 cars who have not had remarkable results in F1 will usually get results in Indy and prolong their open wheel careers by competing in IndyCar. Examples would be Sato, Montoya, Ericsson, and Grosjean to name a few.
F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport and the cars are more powerful, more complex and you need a higher skill and athletic level to drive them in comparison to IndyCar. You can see it in the drivers.
I think what can make international motorsport fans a bit uncomfortable is when people try to say that Indy and F1 are at an equal level of motorsport, when it is not. Even this article tried to suggest that and it can be interpreted in a negative way.
To be clear I’m not British and I watch all kinds of racing from F1, F2, Endurance racing, rally car and also Indy. Everything I have said comparing the two is factual and I do not think there is any bashing of anyone here.
Unless Hamilton, Verstappen or some of the top guy suddenly move to Indy, I can't see how F1 is losing their driver. It's like when MotoGP rider move to WSBK. They move because thay had no contract extension or simply can't compete with the big teams.
The top guys won’t move to indycar because they’re already in the best cars.
@@floppa933 even non-top guys do everything to stay in F1 and move somewhere else only when F1 kicks them out (for whatever reason)
Nigel Mansell 1993 switched over to CART(indy) when he was the raining world champion
@@dyslexicfurry that was 28 years ago…
Hamilton made $63 million last year in F1. The highest paid Indycar driver was Takuma Sato at only $1.4 million. So that's over 60 million reasons to stick with F1.
Only OG's can remember when the title said: "Why IndyCar is Better Than F1"
that was a fallacy
And the old thumbnail
I thought I miss read it..
I thought I was going crazy hahaha good thing I found this comment
It was why Indycar is better than f1 and then why indycar makes f1 seem boring and now it’s why f1 is losing driver to Indycar smh
F1 hasn’t “lost” any drivers to IndyCar. IndyCar snap up former f1 drivers that are surplus to requirements
Waiting for baby schumacher to become surplus and show up in Indy Car
@@braincraven Doubt it, Alfa wants him when Kimi eventually retires.
@@Frozander Kimi won't retire as long as he can physically drive :D But I still don't think Mick will ever go to Indycar. I mean his name alone can get him a seat in F1 anytime he wants (and he's not bad either)
@@Inferiis Rumours said Haas put up for sale, so probably Andretti snatch the bargain instead create expensive team and Mick might head to Alfa Romeo after Kimi retire from F1.
@@ThePaulz80 Andretti can't compete with Daddy Mazepin when it comes to buying Haas. Mazepin will buy Haas with spare change he finds in his dacha's couch, so Lil'Nicky can keep his seat.
There was a racing series in the UK Called "BOSS" and was "Big Open Single Seaters", was a classic race for older F1 Cars, IndyCars, Formula Renaults and other powerful open wheeled cars etc. They were shuffled into classes based on engine power etc, it wasn't too serious and was mostly racing fun with old open wheel cars. Getting to see IndyCars in road aero against F1 Cars with the smaller cars upsetting the grid a little, was a great series to watch at Donnington and Brands Hatch.
Sounds sick
@@chickenfishhybrid44 Was a great series, you could really see the progression in technology over the years where newer F3 or Formula Renault cars could keep up with older F1 cars.
Its the only place I ever saw with all those cars together, sending it in a race rather than Exhibition or Time Trial/Hill Climb.
The conundrum that I have:
The big thing I like about Indy is how competitive the racing is.
The thing I hate about Indy is that all the cars are the same.
The thing I like about Indy is caused by the thing I hate!
One of the things I like about F1 is that each team's cars are different, and there is a back and forth in the engineering war.
The thing I hate is that this leads to some teams dominating the competition, lately for years at a time.
The thing I hate F1 is caused by the thing I like!
Like a girl who hates being pregnant but likes what caused it ;o)
Issa evil world we live in
Same here. Indy is better from a drivers stand point because everyone has an equal chance of winning, while in F1, you could have the best driver on the grid that deserves to win everything in a midfield or slowest car and they won't win anything. Vettel could have easily been a 7 time champion by now if he was with Mercedes instead of Lewis, and the same could be said about many of the drivers there.
But it's the fact it's an engineering war between the teams that make me like that sport better than F1
It's the same reason why I enjoy nascar so much. It's a toss up, every time. Random drivers can (and do) win races quite often, and the aggressiveness of the driving is amazing. F1 seems like a battle between the 2 best teams, with everybody else just there to fill the grid spots.
@@bobjohn2000 I liked NASCAR better when the race cars were at least based on production vehicles.
I understand why that couldn't continue, but it is just another spec racing series now, with an extremely screwy championship system.
I don't even mind it being mostly boring oval tracks, but it would be nice if there were more road races.
It is absolutely hilarious when they call the cars a Ford, Chevy, or Toyota.🤣
For me following Grosjean’s exploits in Indycar this year has really opened my eyes to the series. Absolutely love it now
Better title: "Why F1 leftover drivers become champions in Indy"
They don't?
@@James-vj5hz Bobby Rahal | Indycar wins: 24 |
Best Indianapolis 500 finish: 1st (1986)
| Indycar titles: 3 (1986, 1987, 1992)
Alex Zanardi | IndyCar wins: 15 | Indycar titles: 2 (1997, 1998)
Emerson Fittipaldi | Indycar wins: 22 | Best Indianapolis 500 finish: 1st (1989, 1993) | Indycar titles: 1 (1989)
Nigel Mansell | Indycar wins: 5 | Indycar titles: 1 (1993)
other way
Jacques VIlleneuve | F1 wins: 11 | F1 titles: 1 (1978)
Mario Andretti | F1 wins: 12 | F1 titles: 1 (1996)
Juan Pablo Montoya | F1 wins: 7
thassit
Do you have any idea how many IndyCar Champions you have to go back before you find someone that was an "F1 leftover?"
Scott Dixon, Josef Newgarden, Simon Pagenaud, Will Power, Ryan Hunter-Reay, Dario Franchitti...
If you're an idiot you'll say Sebastien Bourdais I guess, but his IndyCar Championships came before his venture into F1, where the car was what sunk him.
After that, we're looking at Sam Hornish Jr. , Dan Wheldon, Tony Kanaan, Cristiano da Matta...
I mean, these are a lot of names disproving your point here, huh?
Kinda like it was just a dumb thing you said.
Scott Dixon is literally the 6-time series champ, and actually came up thru Indy Lights instead of coming from F1
This dude dont know racing at all
I love the innovations that F1 brings.
Important point: since F1 cars have never driven on a speedway, they have *never been configured for a speedway.* If you hold a race on one, teams will have to bring an aero package specifically for the event.
*flashbacks to 2006 American Grand Prix*
@@_Zekken Forza Minardi!!!
@Farith Robledo they race at the Circuit of the Americas. Texas Motor Speedway is a different track. Circuit of the Americas is a road course. Texas Motor Speedway is an oval track.
@Farith Robledo F1 drivers are subject to the same laws of physics so they would not allow them to use the full potential of F1 spec adapted to ovals because of safety
@Farith Robledo Uh whut? Lol no that's the exact opposite: Indycar teams can bring whichever wing package suits them. If you're trying to keep it even, then it's a "run what ya brung" race, whereby the two series' totally different priorities result in the same situation: one decimates the other on a particular course, whilst the tables are turned and the other decimates the one on the different course. To wit, Indycar shows up & runs COTA; it's another race for them & their outright performance does NOT stack up to F1; F1 could NOT show up at the speedways - btw I'm superbiased in favor of speedways because if a car "can" do 240 mph, then let's see it... lap after lap after lap of close, wheel-to-wheel racing! Look 180 kph-65 kph-145 kph corners is cool, it really is, but it's just not needed here; I'm an OG from F1's V12 days, so I really am with you until it comes time for the off-track soap opera-dram that is F1 goes away and the racing 🥱 begins.
I love Indycar because I don’t know who’s going to win any given week. F1 has stretches where you can predict which teams or drivers will win with pretty good accuracy. F1 feels very commercial whereas indy car feels very raw. However, I love racing and I love both for multiple reasons
I sometimes feel you can know who will win the GP in F1 since thr practice session, you could be sure on qualy, race day is just like: "Ok lets see how the field after the 10th place finishes.
F1 is a quantum mechanics-level paradox: It is the least competitive series in motorsport AND it is the most competitive series in motorsport.
I've had a ton of fun learning about it on RUclips and because the storylines and power dynamics seem to play out over such long periods, videos breaking down each season of the championship have been great fun to go through. But having completely predictable races that are sometimes devoid of passing (oh excuse me, "overtaking") gives me no incentive to heavily follow it week-to week-and watch the races.
Granted, I am an uncultured swine who grew up watching NASCAR, but in all seriousness I find it incredibly hard to enjoy sports leagues that are fully uncapped and are nearly exclusively won by the teams that spent the most money. I have to imagine anyone that is a Mercedes fan is the kind of person whose other favorite teams are the Yankees, Patriots, Lakers, and Man U. Just the worst kind of sports fan.
That all being said, I would kill to watch the F1 drivers run a race in the IndyCars (totally spec). It would be extremely fun and possibly enlightening to see the F1 drivers race against each other on a completely even playing field. So many arguments and what-ifs could be answered for F1 fans! Also perhaps some surprises...perhaps Mazepin smokes the field out of nowhere!! (Ok...definitely kidding on that one but maybe we'll never know who the greatest F1 driver of all time is...in theory it could be someone that had a mediocre career because they always had shit equipment.)
@@extragoogleaccount6061 you had me until Mazepin 🤣
@@extragoogleaccount6061 Man Utd is definitely not a good exemple ahaha
@@extragoogleaccount6061 only problem is see is the patriots were in fact under a cap system. Brady is a generational talent and bellichek is the best coach to ever walk the sidelines. All the other teams I Wholeheartedly agree though.
How about a "real" old-school style B2B with a F1 car?
That'd be epic
I think covid is restricting Donut in their studios to do a car review
The f1 teams wouldent alow it with a current spec car sadley they are that protective of there secrets best you might get is a late 2000's spec car thats not even used for testing anymore
Can't have a bumper to bumper cuz f1s don't have bumpers
A b2b about the fight between Lotus and Brabham would be great.( Chapman vs Murray!)
F1 is for technology Indy is for actual racing
No driver is leaving F1 for indy,
they lost their seats / funding.
Winning by superior, creative engineering is one of the things that makes me an F1 fan!
Agreed, but I prefer the competition and fairness (rules interpretation) of Indy.
But Mercedes wins every week. No point in watching it!
Nah, you're an Formula Yawn fans.
let me fix that for you
Winning by spending the most money is one of the things that makes me an F1 fan!
Exactly the same for me! That is why I have no problem when someone is dominating but don't confuse this with me thinking it's fun to watch because it isn't. But if you have come up with a ground breaking solution you should get rewarded for it which is usually the case if you dominating. Also then it's up to the competition to catch up which is part of the fun, imo. But it's interesting when a team gets "hate" for dominating I mean "hate" on the teams that wasn't as smart as the dominating team instead. Sometimes a dominating team is made out to be some kind of villain but at the same time I guess that narrative creates some drama in the paddock and sells headlines for the media. And we the fans have something to discuss also 😁
The thing I like about F1 is the constant regulation changes that drive innovation. It's an ongoing war of engineering.
@Shannon Rehwinkel I never commented on the racing. You're right, it doesn't necessarily make it any better but I enjoy reading about the advancements the teams make. As it happens, I find oval racing incredibly boring (the rest of Indy seems fine to me). That's just my taste, it's great there are different options for different people
nah that regulation kills engineering. Remember when mercedes got penalized for their aero?
@@honkhonk8009 True, but regulations are there to stop things from spiraling out of control. If it was an open formula, then the series would eventually die. Just look at what happened to Group C racing.
@@honkhonk8009 If you think in the short term, then that can be the case. Long term however, engineers find workarounds, loopholes and innovations to gain whatever advantage they can. It's a bit like how corporate regulation can sometimes actually increase competition and profitability
Nothing like kicking back with a beer and watching security footage of engineers in cubicles.
I’m so sick of people arguing..
Can we all just agree that both of these Motorsport Leagues are both great in their own way.
I wish INDYCAR would go international
They almost did if it weren't for American Open Wheel racing to hit a figurative brick wall at 200 mph in the form of Tony George.
I thinks people are just disqusted how biased the video is and i kinda agree that the points made in this video are ignorant
They are technically international, with Toronto, but they used to travel all around the world, so it’s a shame they dialed it back
"Mom, can we have F1?"
"We have F1 at home."
*looks at F2
"No no, the other one"
"The place with circles?"
"Yes"
*looks at Nascar
"No, the other one"
"The place where F1 drivers give up the dream of being in F1?"
"That's the one. Took ya long enough"
Hey hey... did you know that in terms of geometry an oval is not a circle but in terms of racing every track in the world is a circle? :)
Also icydk - Indy and F1 share the same roots, Indy is the older series and most Indy drivers aren't former F1 drivers? :)
@@FloosWorld_AoE hey hey do you know what a joke is ?
Also they didn't say indy car consists of majority ex F1 drivers, just where F1 drivers go after they give up the dream of racing in F1.
@@notshubhransh A joke has to be original and funny to be considered as one so no - this "ovals = circles haha left turn" thing is not a joke
No, it isn't. It's just one series amongst many.
@@notshubhransh seems like jokes nowadays need citation warnings; can't assume people would fill in the small details.
Lots of ignorance in that ‘joke’. It looks like the video just attracted and triggered the more toxic elements of the F1 fandom…and fandoms are by nature pretty nasty places.
The f1 drivers going to indycar are only going because they didnt get a seat in f1 for the next season
Glad someone said it. Its always been that way
Like Mansell
Takuma Sato: Left without an F1 drive when Super Aguri folded four races into 2008
Teo Fabi: Fabi had endured a miserable rookie F1 campaign with Toleman in 1982, failing to qualify seven times and retiring on a further six occasions
Justin Wilson: Wilson's experience of F1 was brief, a single season split between Minardi and Jaguar in 2003 a poor return for the promise he'd shown in winning the 2001 International Formula 3000 crown
Dan Gurney: Nothing I can find. While competing in Formula One, Gurney also raced each year in the Indianapolis 500 from 1962 to 1970.
Alexander Rossi: Rossi made no bones when he started his IndyCar career in 2016 that he would wait to see what opportunities opened up in F1 before committing his future to the US. But that changed after he took a shock Indianapolis 500 victory in his rookie year, which set him up for a fruitful Stateside switch.
Jim Clark: History of racing different series at the same time. Never fully switched from F1 to Indy/Champcar.
Bobby Rahal: Made his F1 debut with Wolf in the two North American races of 1978 after impressing in European F3. But hopes of a full-time drive in 1979 were dashed by new arrival James Hunt's insistence on a one-car operation and when Peter Warr over-looked Rahal to replace a demotivated Hunt mid-year, he returned to the US to race sportscars until motel mogul Jim Trueman approached him to set up an Indycar team.
Alex Zanardi: Zanardi's F1 career with Jordan, Minardi and Lotus was a classic case of promise unfulfilled.
Emerson Fittipaldi: Fittipaldi's Indycar career was a fruitful Indian summer for the double world champion, who had called time on his racing career after retiring from F1 in 1980.
Nigel Mansell: He had won the 1992 world championship at a canter in the superior FW14B, but couldn't agree on a new contract with Frank Williams and accepted Carl Haas' offer of a fresh challenge in Indycar with Newman/Haas Racing.
Etc.
Stop crying u f1 Nancy boy
The caption text interpreted saying that an F1 engine can make "a thousand horsepower" to can make "8,000 horsepower" That's a LOT MO' POWA' BABY!!!!!!
James def did the captions again
Well I definitely heard him say "8,000 horsepowers" and wondered just what he was talking about. Then I glanced at the screen and saw that it was supposed to be a thousand... I'm not surprised the speech recognition created capitation saying 8,000...
dang thats almost a fraction of what the Toyoda Soupbra makes from factory (car from fastand furious!!!!!!!))
You even think about going near the throttle, it’s lights out and my tyres are gone!
correction to your title: "why I THINK IndyCar is better than F1
Producing 5g of downforce does not mean the engine has to move 5 times the weight. The mass stays the same.
The wings do however create drag as well, that is what limits the top speed.
When those 5g of downforce is applied to a car, it adds to the gravitational force, and it feels like the engine has to move 5 time its weight. Its mass is the one that stayes the same
@@Ray-xy1bp no it literally doesnt work like that
@@phrog322 actually, yes due to the bernoulli effect
Downforce creates a larger normal force on tires which generates more grip. Downforce also creates drag which is a force that fights propulsion or acceleration in the opposite direction of motion simply put. It’s not as simple as 1500lbs. of downforce generates 1500lbs. of drag
@@TheNicoSilva downforce doesn't create any drag, the aerodynamic components that create downforce create drag
one correction, having 5x downforce doesn't mean engine has to pull equal mount of mass, it is just that drag would be higher so engine has to work against the drag.
drag and downforce are correlated but are not equal.
yep, mass is still the same. It generates more rolling resistance but its hardly measurable compared to air drag resistance at 230+ mph especially with high downforce configuration like F1.
Acceleration is still reduced because X% of the power is used just to maintain speed against the high drag, only the rest is used for acceleration. not because of more weight/mass.
At the same time, increased down force means MORE power to the ground exiting corners.
for breaking, downforce helps twice, both increasing grip/max braking power, plus acting like air brakes.
F1 with active aero would be completely insane
Mass and weight are two entirely different things.
Thank you! When Jeremiah said that I was like ".... that's now how it works at all"
_"...doesn't mean engine has to pull equal [a]mount of mass..."_
I think part of his confusion may be from thinking about weight as opposed to mass, even though weight is irrelevant here. (Technically, it doesn't matter in the slightest what the car weighs: the acceleration you can achieve depends only on the car's mass and how much force you can apply through the tires. Keep this in mind if you're ever designing a car to race on Mars.)
Depending on one's definition of weight [1] the car's weight or apparent weight may actually increase with downforce. (This would be an operational definition of weight, similar to those definitions where we say a parachutist or bungee jumper in free fall is "weightless" even though they're being pulled down by gravity just as much as someone standing on the ground.)
But you're of course perfectly correct that the issue here is mainly drag, anyway, so regardless of definition of "weight" he's got it basically wrong.
[1]:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weight#Definitions
@@Curt_Sampsonmass is the same on Mars but the low gravity means it would have shitty traction thus shitty acceleration. but much higher top speed thanks to low atmospheric pressure
Still Love F1 over indy, but both race series are Awesome. Donut media F1 sponsor should be Krispy Kreme Donuts
Ive been following F1 and really enjoy it but most of what he said is true and accurate. Especially the cost to fans. F1 tickets/fan packages (if you can even get them) are ridiculously expensive. My son and I went to an Indy series race in Alabama several years ago and dropped less than $600 for the entire weekend, including hotel and pit passes. Indycar wins on that point!
The nice thing about indy is that since all of the cars are relatively the same, driver skill is a lot more important when your opponents can't just out spend you on parts and research. They actually have to outdrive you.
When you spend 150milion developing an F1 car you will pay the best drivers in the world to drive it. Driver skill has to be the ultimate otherwise you have thrown your money away. The F1 drivers also help to develop the car. They are recognised as the best drivers out their and F1 is ruthless if your standard drops.
@@bjs7442 I mean, half the time they're really not paying the drivers, it's more the drivers paying them. Latifi, Stroll, Mazepin, and now Zhou are in their seats because their dad's bring tens of millions in sponsorship money, not because they're the best. If that were the case, you'd see drivers like Ilott and Piastri being moved up from F2 instead.
@@detCap First Ilott is currently a test driver for Ferrari and reserve driver for Alfa. He came 2nd in 2020 in F2 so he has been recognised. Piastri has moved up and is now Alpines reserve driver . So not first team but inline for F1 . Similar to Lando who was reserve driver for Mclaren. When we look at the so called pay drivers. Latifi came second in F2 with 4 wins and beat George Russell on Sunday. Stroll won F4 and European F3 and Zhou came 2nd in F2 with three wins and was test driver for Renault last year. So yes you may classify them as pay drivers but they are also very talented drivers who have been in the top two in the lower divisions. They are capable of getting F1 drives without the money but with the money they are looked at more closely. That leaves Mazapin. He is less easy to justify except he was 5th in F2 and won the same number of races as Mick Schumacher and to be honest Haas would not be on the grid without him but he has struggled. So I would say three are their on merit and one is a paid driver. Only Hass really needs a paid driver.
Yes and then to drive around in circles
F1 needs a balance of outdriving and outengineering. you couldn't put Nicholas Latifi in Red Bull's RB18 and expect him to win the championship, because he'd have a technological masterpiece underneath him but he couldn't drive the thing for jacksquat.
and no, Latifi really ain't that great. he came 2nd in F2 but the grid that year wasn't very competitive (Schumacher, Zhou, etc. were rookies), and he's been convincingly beat by Russell (for 2 years) and Albono (for 7 races). it's pretty clear he's not up to snuff with the driving standard of F1. i don't think Stroll is either, since if you look at it Lawrence has been a major sponsor of both teams that Lance has raced for, and mayhaps he might have gotten into Williams by himself (i don't really know, i wasn't an F1 follower back then) but he definitely didn't get signed to Racing Point on merit. this is his 6th season in F1 and the only notable moments he's really had are Azerbaijan 2017, Turkey 2020, Monza 2020, and Sakhir 2020, and the latter two were almost definitely a result of circumstance
Original title: Why IndyCar is better than F1
Comment section is gonna be as lit as Romain Grosjean's F1 car
And then they changed the title
😂
@@DownsJones yep, it used to say "Why Indycar is better than F1"
@@DownsJones oh two can play at that game
They changed the thumb from flying Indy to flaming Indy
I'm surprised they didn't talk about how racing in Indy car is so much closer and more competitive. I love F1 but the dominance and predictably gets a bit boring sometimes. Hopefully with the new regs that will change
It can be but not this year.
IndyCar does do a good job of close racing, but that's never going to be the strength of open-wheelers. Touring cars of any category really are the kings of that kind of racing, which is why the only racing series I consistently watch alongside F1 is Supercars (despite being held on the other side of the globe and therefore airing at stupid hours).
I agree, part of the issue seems to be the constant rules changes, I don’t know why they simply don’t give the faster cars a weight penalty like other series 🤔
Not this year tho lmao
@@Bahamuttiamat unfortunately it’s just battling between the two highest paying teams. It’s close but predictable
f1= the worlds most expensive parade
indycar= the worlds most underrated series
Ericcsson the GOAT
9:43 damn that engineering degree came up a bit short on this explaination
Downforce doesn’t affect power to weight at all, it just increases grip for corners, and adds a lot of drag of course
Really weird that drag was hardly even mentioned in explaining why the F1 car has a lower top speed since he’s talked about it before
Thank you for this comment. That really bothered me. That must of made many engineers scream.
is kinda odd he did that. Point is the downforce does relate to drag but not 1:1 And the expensive bit is getting more downforce with less drag.
Aero just a tiny bit more slippery for the same downforce is fuel efficiency just a smidge more downforce for the drag is grip. So the
Yeah, funny thing is I had the same thought experiment a number if years ago. And realized that yeah, the motor is fighting the drag and not the increased "weight" due to down force.
Am I crazy or didn't he mention that the engine can't keep up the the drag?
I KNOW RIGHT! Drag, sure... Rolling resistance, small increase but yes.... But wtf with the weight man, mass doesn't have anything with the downforce. I can't believe we had to mention this here.
If f1 ever came to an oval racetrack, they come with oval aero package. The topspeed will be absolutly ridiculous then. And f1 have an extra power deployment with the hybrid systems.
So did Indy car. It was the push to pass button.
@@wormymachine6386 Yeah but F1 has 2. DRS and ERS.
ERS is only great when the F1 cars need to brake. F1 cars would be fast for 1 or 2 laps then slower than NASCAR around ovals
If that's true, why don't they race here any more? Answer...they don't like being beaten by Americans. They do, however, like being saved by Americans.
@@patscally5390 Because F1 is not fun when going around circles. F1 is fun when there is a combination of straights, high speed corners and low speed corners
There isn’t a single driver in their prime that was succeeding in F1 that has moved over to Indy. Grosjean is the most recent transfer. A back of the pack driver in F1 making an immediate impact in Indy. Just signed with 1 of the 3 top Indy teams. The bottom of the barrel F1 drivers are what Indy gets.
Bottom of the barrel F1 drivers are good drivers (unless they are paydrivers, that sometimes can be mediocre). F1 is an engineering competition above all, so a good driver can have a terrible car and there isn't much he can do. Fernando Alonso in McLaren-Honda for example.
Indicar is just cheaper, and that allows more people to get in. So many people gets dropped before getting to F1 because they can't find enough sponsors for paying for their seat.
But what about Nigel Mansell? It was the 1990s so not exactly relevant to today's convo, but there was a single succeeding F1 driver who moved to Indy after winning the World Championship.
@@wjmichael Indeed, Mansell for a week held both titles, and on top of that before his death Senna had planned to move over to IndyCar to do the same. Then there's Alonso skipping the Monaco Grand Prix to do the Indy500, and F1 moving Monaco to allow drivers to be able to attend it without missing a race. The simple fact is that while F1 fans have little respect for IndyCar, F1 drivers, teams and the organisation itself hold it in high regard.
@@wjmichael He wasn't able to keep his seat because of Prost. Williams in the 90s was known for throwing even championship winning drivers under the bus.
Kinda wrong. Nigel Mansel left F1 in '92 after winning the title and went to CART in '93, winning the title. Indycar is the successor to CART.
I grew up with both F1 (be cause of the Dutch grand prix when I was young, before it went away for 35 years) and Indy (Because of Arie Luyendyk) and love both. Cars might look the same but they are totally different classes. one is not better than the other imho, just different.
I’ll be honest, as a lifelong F1 fan, it’s been quite stale for the past few years and only the odd race has been gripping (usually when something happens to Mercedes and it suddenly becomes competitive). This season has been much better with the likes of Alpine, McLaren, Aston Martin, and Ferrari edging closer to Mercedes and Red Bull. But it’s still not competitive enough.
And nowhere near as competitive as IndyCar. Sure, the slowest F1 car could trounce the fastest IndyCar around any track apart from an oval, but that’s not the point. IndyCar has fantastic looking cars, brilliant young drivers and legends alike (Jimmie Johnson aside). And both the races and tracks are so bloody fun to watch. When Helio Castroneves won at Indy this year and ran along the track, there were tears.The only thing that came close to that in F1 in recent memory was when Pierre Gasly won at Monza. I’ve watched IndyCar on and off since before Dan Wheldon died and every year since, I’ve found myself drawn towards it more than F1.
I still fully believe that F1 is the pinnacle of motor racing with the very best tracks (Spa, Silverstone, MONZA!), machines and drivers. You just have to look at how well Grosjean (with all due respect - an F1 journeyman) is doing in his rookie season. But IndyCar is competitively way beyond F1 right now and has been for some time. In fact the latter is barely a competition. And thus IndyCar is simply more fun to watch. I don’t like that drivers can just jump into a car for one race in the season or refuse to do certain races, if they’re so inclined, but I guess having the freedom to so is cool in its own way.
There are equally magnificent, if less iconic, tracks in America. The problem is the average European motorsports fan has limited exposure to/knowledge of these tracks.
Another main point is Indy car is hard to follow. Lot of nameless teams, inconsistent number of drivers, inconsistent liveries, only American event.
Where F1, you generally have good constructor teams, and consistent number of drivers per team, world wide event. Which makes it feel more organized.
Hello, Donut dudes!
Love the video, but you got a bit of it wrong. Romain Grosjean and Kevin Magnussen didn’t race in the 2021 Indy 500. While they’ve both ran Indy Car races this year, they skipped that one.
Grosjean is probably going to do it next year(hopefully, he's been on fire this season)
@@ethandrake5380 Those passes last weekend....man was on a mission.
@@albe23 yes he was to bad for poor timing on the yellow flag or he would have come in at least 9th
@@ethandrake5380 no no, he was on fire last season ;)
Joking aside, they did say he would participate in more ovals next year.
@@kurtispotts9097 his run at Gateway, while not a good finishing position at the end, gave him the confidence to do a full-season to include more ovals.
If you watched the Gateway race, he was easily the man to watch as he was making passes that are usually too risky as either you are likely to catch the wall or wear through your tires faster if you manage to save your car.
A summary: F1 teams spend more money but get cutting edge tech in motorsport, more horsepower, faster lap times, and more variability between teams.
Indy teams spend less money because they all buy the same exact car but go faster in a straight line
Plus F1 develops technology for the present and future (non-stop ongoing development at that), while in indycar you use what you got.
But F1 is boring so whats the point of being technological pinnacle of motorsport when the racing is boring 95 percent of the time since 2015. Lucky i followed F1 since 1995. Who ever hasnt followed before 2015 has missed out.
variability between teams... where, everyone just copies top 2 or 3 teams, especially if they are customer team.
Also everyone having athe same car doesnt really mean every car has the same speed, also similar power levels showcase driver skills more, you also need to be riskier. also Ross Brawn needs to ban DRS for good
F1 fans never fail to disappoint when it comes to smugness. The whole paradox is that F1 is the “pinnacle” of motorsports, but magnifies everything wrong with motorsports. Insane costs, 1-3 genuinely competitive teams, super-cut throat driver development, fan experience tailored to the uber rich, so technologically advanced there’s no practical way of implementing that tech into production cars, a fan base with a giant superiority complex.
All other forms of motorsports suffer from the same problems but on a much smaller scale, the difference though is the blindspots F1 fans seem to have towards their own issues. Current F1 is unsustainable, and the governing body knows that, hence the change to a car that oddly enough, resembles the modern IndyCar concept rather than a continuation of the current crop of uber, technological advanced F1 cars. For decades it’s always been a battle of a handful of teams, but the last few years have been rough. A handful of surprise winners and mid pack battles don’t make up for almost 10 years of a single team’s dominance, especially when that single team is spending almost a billion dollars to achieve it.
Indy is American version of socialism
F1 is the European version of capitalism
@@joshcorvette the 2022 car is just a prototype and it will look very different once team work on their version. F1 isn’t a spec series. What’s the point of having another spec series, it would be no different from IndyCar if it was + most of the current drivers on the grid have come through the ranks in F3/F2 which are spec junior series.
Downforce units are in kgf, wich is different from kg. Kg is mass and kgf is force. Two different things. Mass dos not change (exept from the fuel burned), but (down)force changes with velocity in a race car.
Both IndyCar and F1 are awesome. Racing is just awesome to watch.
Best comment here.
Racing is racing
any motorsport is chill, motogp is also legendary
I like vintage racing better than modern. Those old car's just dance all over the track and the drivers have to man handle them. Modern race car's with all there electronics make the cars predicable. Lap after lap of little to no action just keeping there places for the most part.
F1 is in its own league
Indycar is comparable to F2.
difference is F2 is for junior drivers mostly so if you get dropped by an F1 team, Indycar is where you go.
I'd say the title is very misleading.
exactly.
This is what I was thinking
Yeah, the only contemporary equivalent to F1 is LeMans P1.
It's not that serious 😂
'very misleading' uh...
Best difference
Indy car 2018 St Petersburg race had 366 on track passes
F1 entire 2017 season 435 overtakes.
Although to be fair F1 is much more strict on what constitutes a pass. I’ll keep enjoying both and continuing to think the similarities stop at open wheel racing
Another difference is that IndyCar can race more than 6 cars in Indianapolis without their tires blowing up.
Basically F1 engineering is on a whole new level.
Does more expensive mean more better?
@@nvrndingsmmr in this case, yes.
@@nvrndingsmmr Indy didn't have enough talented people to make R&D of these cars, and that's why it's spec car series and indycars are made by Europeans(dallara) xD
@@patrykroszak7339 That's just stupid. Spec is cost cutting measures and recovery from the CART/IRL split that about ruined OWR in the States. And the chassis used by Indycar are researched, developed, and made in Indianapolis Indiana, in the good ole USA.
I'd say it sets the level
Everything that was explained here suits the drivers and teams but nothing convinced me a fan aside cheap tickets.
They forgot to mention how tight the field is with a lot of drivers being able to fight for wins all of them from different teams, this season i can recall penske,ganassi,Andretti,Dale Coyne,Ed carpenter racing, meyer shank racing and Rahal Letterman Laningan racing all of them having won a race or having been in position to do it.
Also some of those teams like Andretti,Penske and ganassi have more than 2 drivers (in fact those 3 have i think 4 drivers) and at least in penske and ganassi case, all of them have a chance at winning (and most of them have won)
The championship is crazy tight as well, for example the top 3 before the last race was between O'Ward,Palou and Dixon, but only O'Ward is in the top three now.
Now, some people don't have good opinions about ovals but i would say watch the last race or the indy 500 and you see that they can be fun as well, sometimes even more than road courses, they bring something different to the table(and from what I see they're the best races to go to as an spectator since well you can see the whole track pretty much)
Then this might: at any given race in Indy, there are at least a dozen different drivers in contention for a win. Hell, Ericsson, a mediocre by F1 standards who was barely able to score points and was shunned by every single team mate he ever had, recently won at Nashville with a car that literally took off during the first laps.
At F1, provided neither Lewis Hamilton/Mercedes or Max Verstappen/Red Bull do anything stupid, then it's a pretty straight forward W for either or. And this is a good year in terms of competition, whereas in 2019 and especially 2020, only Hamilton was really in contention for anything (one of the races he 'lost' was due to Covid absence, to give you an idea).
But yeah, overall these two paragraphs would've fit within a minute or two of video.
@@ethandrake5380 Romain Grosjean, a fairly average driver in F1, has even been competitive in a RWR car. A team that, in NASCAR, can't even stay on the lead lap for more than a couple minutes. Oh and Grosjean is technically a rookie.
I love IndyCar. Alonso got me to love it and I like how former F1 drivers have been successful in it, heck I think its more competitive than F1. I have watched full Indy 500 races on RUclips. All the points you talked about is what I was expecting in the video but I didn't get.
Donut’s indy car would be the only one with pop up headlights. 😂
POP UP UP AND DOWN HEADLIGHTS!!!!
Bro why does he try to convince us indycar is better than F1 because it costs less. Like we don't care about the price we're not out here buying teams.
I find Indy harder to follow. So many more drivers, some that only race road, others that race both road and oval. But I watched Indy GP this year and it was sick. And i watched a compilation of Indy at cota and it was some of the craziest racing I've seen.
Nobody talks about this aspect of Indy and Nascar. Formula 1 is very neat in it's team and driver lineup (this is why it works for Netflix even though more people globally watch Nascar). I love Indy and have followed it for about 3 years now, but I can only name half of the drivers, and I don't get any "drama" outside of the green light and the checkered flag. This is fine for many, but I like a little side spice to go with the racing.
@@TeeTafoya87 There's no way more people globally are watching Nascar than F1, even Moto gp is more popular than Nascar worldwide.
@@TeeTafoya87 there's plenty of drama in nascar, if the WWE side of motorsport is your thing
@@TeeTafoya87 no mate formula one is far more popular than nascar world wide, NASCAR is pretty much only watched in America but F1 is watched by people from all around the world
@@TeeTafoya87 in 2019 there was an estimated 417 worldwide viewers of f1 and only 3 million nascar viewers worldwide………
Day 109 of asking Donut to bring old B2B back
@Not RickRoll 👇 j bruh
and Science Garage too.
Nah, get with the times old man. You want the OG stuff, then go rewatch the old episodes.
How is old b2b different?
@@oxfordbambooshootify well, Nolan and James were the host and analized a famous car bumper to bumper
Kudos for a provocative video title, but few drivers would leave a competitive _F1_ seat for any other motorsport. Heck, many would even remain in a mediocre _F1_ seat, hoping to progress to a more competitive one.
That's because pay is better at f1
@@jb894 No, they all have more than enough money and they even admit ti it. As Kimi Raikkonen once said "Bwoah, it's just a hobby...".
@@finn.linn.1250 add kimi forgiving the 3 million Lotus owed him and he saying he would retire when it stopped being fun. The man is a legend! one of my favorites along Lauda and Hakkinen.
Yeah that's the pay buddy. They aren't there for the honor of racing in F1 lmao. It's the paycheck.
@@mtiotps2110 I wouldn't say honor, more like for the thrill of driving the fastest machine ever built. I just pointed out a case of someone forgiving 3 million in wages but you just went past it and asserted your view, I guess you can't reason with everybody.
IndyCar would be just as popular as F1 if it wasn't for the fact that USAC, the second Indy sanctioning body, had a split that spawned CART, later to become Champ Car, both vying for views against each other in a time before online streaming services.
It also doesn't help that people really only know IndyCar for the Indy 500.
This, very much this! Ecclestone was apparently concerned that Indy was as popular as F1 in the 90s so he welcomed the split and "civil war".
In F1, there is also overtake button. All f1 teams have this through the battery in the v6 hybrid engine.
Are you talking about power output bump from that, or DRS, or both? Edit, I had been multitasking during that part and rewatched. Yes, you're right. Even without DRS, that button is used for defending and can drain the battery quick for defense, nice catch.
There are some differences between the two, still. IIRC, the Indycar button has a time delay, so you can't just hit it wherever you see someone using their's. If you try to press it in response to an overtake, the overtake will have already completed by the time the boost kicks in. Use it too early, and you risk the chasing car drafting you, and also wastes seconds that could have been used to secure your own passes.
@@shaunmark1 it’s quite literally called overtake mode. It uses the full power from the battery giving about an extra 150 hp
I also love watching commercials instead of every lap.
Oh you too? I love the amazing godaddy commercials. So full of quality writing.
@@furyofgungnir I don't watch IndyCar so I don't know if you guys are being sarcastic 😂
The redundancy is so cringe.
Pick between too, or also, but you don't need to say it twice
Sorry, I'm THAT guy.
But I appreciate you taking my criticism and applying it 👍
“Why F1 is losing drivers to IndyCar” because they all got sacked lol
Failed F1 drivers have to go somewhere.
I am a huge F1 fan and the amount of cope i'm seeing is so funny. F1 can learn so many things from Indy to be a better sport (removal of blue flags, dual camera broadcast). Both sports are great.
Your comment is also a cope 😂
@@kishascape cool, you didn't back that up and added nothing to the discussion. Congrats!
So what formula 1 has to learn is removing the flag that tells the driver that's being lapped to get out of the way given that he has no business figthing the driver that's lapping him and a camera that would add weight to the car a thing that is the biggest problem on f1 cars at the moment lmao.
@@someguy5487 First of all, removing blue flags only adds to the fun of the sport and strategy. If you are truly faster than the car you are lapping you should overtake them on track. Removing blue flags gives us more overtaking and it solves the weird situations where there are 2 lapped cars fighting and neither wants to slow down.
As for your second points, there are already a lot of cameras on the F1 car, they are just not broadcasted as well as Indy car cameras. I'm pretty sure they still have 360 cameras from 2018 but they never show them. The indy broadcast production is a lot better, often showing multiple onboards at the same time with 360 cameras.
removal of blue flags, what XDDD?
Thanks for the Video title that just invites an argument. That being said, I'll bite. This video does nothing to explain why Indy is better than F1. It only explains why Indy is less expensive than F1. Claiming Indy cars are faster is bullshit. If F1 designed and trimmed out a car for an "Oval" they would be just as fast or faster. But as you mentioned, on a road course like COTA. where the track is the same, the F1 cars are 11+ Seconds faster per lap On a 1:30 Lap for an F1 car (I Believe it's more, but ehh). Which means in less than Ten Laps an F1 Car would Lap an Indy Car in a 60+ lap race. That being said, I am not trying to look down on Indy Car vs F1. They are completely different things. People don't seem to understand F1 is a Constructors Championship (IE: Who can build the fastest car) Indy is a drivers championship. One where F1 drivers win, Like Erickson. F1 is about developing the highest level of technology and eventually having that trickle down to road cars. IE: Soon they will be using BIO Fules. They are completely different things and there is no more reason to compare them than there is to compare MMA to Boxing. But as an American, I can see why people from other Countries see something like this, with it's completely incomplete context and think American's are snobs. All that being said - How many retired or fired Indy car drivers become F1 drivers vs the other way around? Clearly it's much easier to drive in Indy car vs F1, regardless of cost and all the other factors mentioned.
I agree and look at what the F1 teams did during Covid using their technology to design respirators . A lot of F1 technology ends up improving road cars
you summarized the situation perfectly! but look how people ignore your thoughts and continue the endless argument :D
@@LaArma That just sums up the intelligence of the audience I am speaking to. Ignoring facts doesn't make you correct.
Indycar cars are much faster at top speed when they use the oval setup where they use only 500 HP of power but with the aerodynamics simplified to the maximum. Comparing both on road circuits is stupid because F1 has many advantages: more than 300 horsepower, superior downforce, power steering, much better mechanical grip, electronic aids, etc.
Indycar can also be much faster on road circuits, do you forget that Dallara manufactures the HAAS cars and the Japanese super-formula cars that have a cornering similar to F1? Indy in the 80-90s already had engines of more than 1000 hp and they were only 3 to 5 seconds slower than F1 at that time and only because they were more aerodynamically unloaded.
The FIA does everything possible so that no indy driver races in F1, instead indy accepts any driver whether it is from F1 or supercars, it is mainly a matter of regulations and money.
@@juanvillalba2404 So we agree. F1 Cars are faster. Got it.
9:45 Downforce has no burden to the engine, air resistance has. Downforce has no mass
Yeah I was cringing pretty hard for that part too haha
Can someone explain to me why not? I’m thinking downforce is making the car appear heavier (5x at points) than the car is, which is making the engine think it’s 3750kg instead of 750kg… similar to a Mini Cooper engine trying to move a dump truck.. just not enough power? (Don’t take my comparisons literal, just trying to be educated differently)
@@jasony9950 heres a quick rundown: weight is a Force measured in Newtons. Mass is property of an object measured in kilograms. Force that are at an 90 degree angle have nothing to do with eachother. Forward and downward are at a 90 degree angle. a=F/m so the engine outputs F amount of force through the tires and accelerates the car that has a mass of m by a. I repeat MASS=/=WEIGHT, screw common tounge for this bs. So just because the car that has a mass of 750kg and weights 7500N get an additional 30000N of downforce, the mass doesnt increase by 3000kg so the engine still has to work only with 750kg so the a will be the same
8000hp? Those must be some chiseled buff horses, those are top fuel numbers. That's insane.
And also terrifying. It's like you're driving in Hyperspace.
Also not true.
During qualifying at the Indy 500 speeds actually reached 243 mph
Anyone can go fast in a straight line and a banked corner. Turn left, turn left...!
@@jameskujawski6651 dawg what? 💀🤦♂️
@@jameskujawski6651 Excelt not anyone can do that.
And they used to hit almost 250 MPH
6:53 you forgot that F1 has ERS with it´s own overtake button that works the same, the only difference is that in F1 it´s electric power instead of the bigger turbo boost in IndyCar
9:52 the downforce doesn’t affect the momentum of the car. Only the drag will affect the top speed of the car, and how fast it will get there. There is a reason land speed cars are usually around than 10000lbs and have very little aero downforce/drag.
I would like to point out 2 things:
1- Top speed doesn't depend on the vertical weight, but just on drag.
2- F1's at a highspeed oval would just need a special low-downforce and low-drag aero set up and they would go faster than Indy.
like rhe monza spec
the*
Probably, but not that much, since on an oval there are no coasting or braking zones to charge up the battery which is responsible for a lot of time gain in F1!
The current Powertrain only works on twisty circuits with a lot of speed changes
@@antonioviana1641 yes, or even more drastic if there is actually no low or mid speed corner.
Indy car is the perfect landing zone for drivers not quite good enough to make it in F1.
First full season of Indycar and I’m more of an Indycar than an f1 fan now
Day 417 of asking James to do an Up to speed on his Dad
Damn your persistent 😂
Holy shit it’s been that long
😅
3 more days pagani boi
Next video: why F1 is better than IndyCar
Indy is the pinnacle of spec series racing, F1 is about pure laptime and constructor innovation. Both leave room for each other to exist
9:50 isn't exactly true. Downforce does not increase the inertial mass. What the downforce elements do is to add drag in order to create that downforce.
Ikr? This guys 20% of the time have no idea what they’re talking about
@@maxi-js2es usually he does great explaining this technical stuff, this one really caught me off guard as an outlier
It would only apply if you didn’t bolt down the engine to the frame
Like a poopy head
Having watched f1 live and had one of my relatives compete in a lower tier formula series (formula 4 and 3) I prefer f1, but indycar is great and would love to watch it more often
ok BOLD statement.
RIP Donut
lmao
6:25 you forgot about the ERS button on F1 cars which drains from a battery.
You’d be hard pressed to find someone who can name a single IndyCar driver, let alone follow the sport, outside the US
well I wouldn’t exactly doubt that considering Indycar doesn’t race outside said US.
Romain Grosjean
Pfft gimme a harder question next time
only one i can name is romain grosjean and only because he was in f1 lol
@@satvik274 Well there are a lot of former F1 drivers in Indy. Alexander Rossi, Marcus Ericsson, Juan Montoya was in it at one point.
Romain grosjean , ericsson and kmag
haha
I will be waiting to see Donut get into any kind of motorsport with their own car and team!!!!
Well they have that one chick that races in 24 hours of Lemons. They could easily build an actual Donut Media car since she has a team outside of Donut. Or work on the Zacks MX-5 a little more if needed and run it in autocross. Or even hot lap events.
@@Zankaroo these are really good ideas. They can really get started through these smaller events.
24hrs of LeMons. 24 hour racing with cars costing $500.
Just FYI, you are confusing downforce and drag when it comes to the different top speeds. ;) And Indy aero is slightly more complicated than what one engineer can figure out in an afternoon...
F1 is a constructor/team sport and much more dependent on money. Indy is a drivers sport.
Perfeita definição.
Indycar é o verdadeiro campeonato de pilotos de roda aberta no mundo.
F1 é competição de engenharia.
“I prefer racing in indy car” thats the kinda thing you say when your f1 career didn’t go anywhere
So true 😂😂
Or you like having more than three cars competitive for winning at any given race
@@RyanXWing good and successful f1 drivers (not necessarily champions only) also drive in other series from time to time you never hear them saying that kinda thing. I don’t recall Alonso ever saying that he prefers indy, endurance or rally in fact he decided to go back to f1 to a non top team
at the very least kevin and roman had f1 podiums you don’t hear them saying that kinda thing, that comment is reserved for truly mediocre f1 careers like ericsson’s
@@hm05090x you have a good point 👍
As you clearly described, F1 is HEAVILY regulated! This leads to deeper research to beat the rules.
whats wrong with regs there is such thing as innovation
The minute a team beats the rules F1 changes the rules, so no team gets an advantage.
9:40 “the faster the car goes, the more it weighs”
Uhhhh, no.
It has drag, yes, and the tires/chassis experience the effects of the downforce, but there’s still no mass added so it’s not the same thing.
Technical speaking it's right, but the relativitic effect is far too little :)
@@fiara4014 Technically speaking it's wrong. Downforce does not increase weight, it applies force, period.
@@nunyabusiness896 bruh do u take everything literally?
@@anatoliylotarev5977 When we're talking about literal fucking physics? Uh, yes.
He is explaining this to dummies not engineers dude
Indy should bring back the high downforce aero kits from 2015-2017, and dirxh the turbo v6 for a 3.0 naturally aspirated V8.