..and voice.. the timbre, I mean.. ..he also, just like everyone else, thinks theyre doing the right thing.. and cadence of his delivery does wonders for the lines too.. literal perfect casting and character design..
One of the best villains in the recent years. At least in a series. He has depth, he has convictions, but he's still a bad guy and the show never makes you doubt that. But you still like him in a way and you want him to succeed as well. That takes a lot of talent and good writing, along with the voice acting.
As an animator that sequence between jinx and ekko is one of the best animation sequences in animation history. The story, the character art, the style and character animation meld into pure magic.
Showing Ekko getting shot in their memory amped up the anticipation and suspense, "Did he get shot in real life?" But then the memory was used to avoid getting shot again. Perfect scene.
Fun Fact, in the official game and the card game, Ekko has custom lines for Jinx "I use to have a crush on you, until you started talking to the guns" and "Powder, I miss you so much"
"Innocence and Instinct" dives into powder and ekko's relationship and their contact during the time skip in a video about jinx's diary, I really recommend checking it out!
Marcus is an example of someone who got himself into a bad position because he was a dick and then when he was trying to make amends for his actions he wasn't smart or brave enough to actually figure out a way out and just kept digging himself deeper. His death is a tragic one, not because he didn't deserve it, but because he failed to overcome his own flaws in order to follow the right path which he clearly saw and wanted to reach.
He’s also trying to mimic what he saw Grayson doing. Grayson was making deals with vander, so he tried to do the same with Silco not realizing how different it was
Yeah, it's a great example of someone failing their character arc. Like he's not a flat character at all, he's as well rounded as any of them, but where as the others overcome thwir weaknesses and make up for their flaws, Marcus just keeps digging himself deeper and deeper in the well of his mistakes.
This fight is iconic af, and really sad at the end. Though I think my personal favorite fight comes next episode, mainly cause the song is such a fucking banger.
@@solongdentahlplaan7975 He does have a big Rufio vibe. In his original lore from the game he forms a group called the Lost Children of Zaun, alluding to the Lost Boys in Peter Pan. His whole character represents community and anti-establishment in a way.
So many people think Heimerdinger's this really wise guru when Jayce was right about everything he said to him. If he was as great as everyone claims he is then there wouldn't be so many problems with Piltover and the Undercity. Even if he stopped Jayce from inventing Hextech, Silco would have just continued producing more and more dangerous versions of Shimmer and things would have ended up even worse without something to stop him. Heim never cared to find out what was going on in his own backyard and the guy had hundreds of years to do so.
Exactly. I don't think Heimer is a bad person/yordle or character, but his immortality makes him incredibly detached and aloof. Basically, Heimer and Jayce suffer from competing versions of idealism--while Jayce values the material present for obvious reasons, Heimer values theory and principle over material concerns. To him, the material world is fleeting, so the constants to which he holds necessarily need to be abstract. Whereas Jayce sometimes has trouble seeing the forest for the trees, Heimerdinger often has trouble seeing the trees for the forest. What needs to happen is a synthesis between addressing short-term concerns while considering long-term consequences, and that will always require compromise.
Yeah the guy founded this city and has always been part of the ruling concil, and it ended up with half the population living in terrible condition breathing poisonous air. It's quite evident the guy is a terrible ruler. Even as a person , he means well but he is all talk and no action and only says platitudes.
Shimmer became a problem under HEIMERDINGER'S watch. The undercity fell under decay because of his aloofness. Jayce may be rash sometimes, but Mel was right when she said Jayce did the right thing. Everybody in an elite position in Piltover needed a serious wake-up call. I also think many people go WAY too hard on Mel. She wants Piltover to succeed and prosper. She doesn't want war. She doesn't want violence. But she will also prioritize defense in the immediate even if it might have terrible long-term consequences. She wants to guarantee Piltover's survival, no matter the cost. And I don't think Jayce is really being twisted that hard to agree with her--he has become the de facto head of the council, and by extension, the city. It's pretty clear he would feel like he was betraying his responsibility if he didn't prepare for the worst. But I honestly think one of Jayce's biggest blind spots, at least until the beginning of the final episode, is that he places too much esteem in Piltover itself. It gave him opportunity, and allowed him to advance via merit, but it almost cast him out, too, just as it has left so many of its own citizens in the shadows. Piltover is a product of Heimerdinger's idealism, but Jayce has a completely different worldview that he tries to mold to live up to the legacy of the city. What he really should have done is come out swinging, breaking wrenches just like he did in inventing HexTech. He finally realizes this is the solution in the final episode, but by then it's too late. Marcus wasn't planning on being a crooked cop. He just wanted to get Vander. He hated the guy, thought he was the same "scum" as the rest of the undercity "rats." He didn't like Grayson's deal with him. Plus, he thought getting the arrest would look good for his professional reputation. What he didn't count on was Silco killing Grayson. That made him unwittingly and unwillingly complicit in the murder of the chief of police. And now Silco has something on him. If Marcus ever brought Silco to justice, he'd lose everything.
He wants to do the right thing, but he is constantly being told by others what is right and what is wrong, who 'his people' are, who 'the other guys' are. He is the very symbol of a character who was pushed into power for having a very specific skill (His inventiveness) and is suddenly made to lead, and the only people he can look to for guidance, the people who are seniors at this and have been doing it for longer, are all too happy to use his lack of experience and his kindness for their own ends. He should have followed the advice of Heimerdinger above any of the others, but the problem is Heimerdinger doesn't really know how to talk to people, especially Humans, in a way that will make them understand him. He can teach, especially scientific things. But he has no clue how to talk to someone who is essentially a child, and get them to understand his reasoning for why they shouldn't do something they want to do. Because of that, of trying to control Hextech which was the right call, he alienated himself from Jayce, and Jayce only had people who wanted to use him to turn to. At least we know there's a greater future for him ahead.
He's a naive idealist who was made an oligarch against his will. He knows the politics enough to play the game. The only problem is now the game is playing him.
@@bellidrael7457 except Heimerdinger was wrong the whole time. Heimerdinger doesnt just fail to understand how to talk to humans, he doesnt understand humans at all. thats why all these problems have been festering for 2 centuries under his watch. just like Mel said, everything Jayce said about Heimerdinger was right.
@@unrelatedcoma him being a poor leader doesn't mean he didn't make the right call about hextech, at least morally speaking. He literally doesnt die so of course he doesn't understand humans. I think the biggest mistake was giving heimer so much power, because even though he isnt corrupt, he's the only non-corrupt councilor. Which doesn't mean much if the rest are already bought.
@@praisethefirstborn6226 he didnt make the right call about hextech at any point. he wanted to kill the project without even trying it, instead Jayce and Viktor do it illegally and it leads to making Piltover the most prosperous city on the planet while advancing science generationally, he refused to let them put the advancements of the gemstone into use even though it could help people immediately, and he wanted to destroy the hexcore because he was scared. being scared of something isnt being morally correct.
"there is always a choice" Grenade scene, only had 1 wire, and while he didn't know for sure if it'd stop it or not, it definitely seemed like Viktor was considering letting it explode so that no weapons could be made by themselves and the Bridge fight scene hurts real bad with the context of Ekko having feelings for Powder before her changes
I will say, for all of Jayce's faults, he didn't move away either. He stood there, ready to stand with Viktor if it blew up (whether he knew Viktor was going to let it or whether he'd fail to disarm it). It's the little touches like that in everyone's characters that made this show a 20/10 for me. :)
@@peppypaladin8842 yeh agreed, he even asked Viktor to give the speech with him and Viktor refused but reactors often give him crap for not arguing harder to drag Viktor up there lol... people are just primed to see his faults for some reason
The scene was great but nobody holds simple childhood crushes that long, specially in a World like that where you have to basically fight for your survival. He also saw Jinx just casually kill like 10-20 completely innocent men so weird he hesitated.
also if vou notice in the past episode jinx is always on high alert trying to avoid death. But in the scene in episode 7 when ekkos is on top of her, her face relaxes and smiles. She doesn't move away from the bom she stays right under ekko, like she wanted to die. Jinx has been dealing with trama for years and by her self. Most people think about actually committing suicide. The fight between ekko and inx was the same play fight they did when they were kids so it must have been a nostalgic moment for her. So why not die in the arms of her childhood best friend? Plus in the game it was mentioned that ekko had a crush on powder when they were kids. And the arcane enemy music video shows there were a lot of scenes of ekko and powder together as kids.
I think folks go a little too hard on Jayce.. he doesn't have an omniscient perspective like the audience.. he's a good guy, but misguided and distracted, but he never enacts an action that isn't something he thinks will be for the greater good..
just like Jayce said, to the people think he only makes bad decisions, "what's your plan to fix this?", why didn't he just fix decades old of systematic problems lmao
Yeah. I roll my eyes every time a reactor is upset about ID in Arcane. I only know two of their songs and one of them is someone else's cover anyway. It just reminds me of the hatred Nickelback got. Every 5 to 10 years, there's the new band that's cool to hate. Fine, follow the pack or, hell, hate them for your own reasons, but it doesn't make you cool. I just get irked when people get so wrapped up in it that they spend more time dwelling on ID than what's going on while it's playing. This, however, is the worst example that I've seen... completely missing the Firelight's awesome song and art because you're too busy INCORRECTLY thinking it's the band you hate.
she said they did a "deep dive" which i guess means they listened to the album version of the song that features rapper JID. its kinda funny that the instant Maple heard a rap song by Pusha T and Mako and immediately thought it was the JID verse from the Imagine Dragons song lol...
So little bit about the fight since you asked what was happening, it is a game they played as kids yes, but also in the game Ekko's ability is to turn back time for a few seconds and learn from mistakes. Now in Arcane he has not yet developed the thing that lets him do this, but it is a reference to his fighting style as well. Also little tidbit of lore knowledge and why Jinx calls him boy savior, he had a crush on her when they were kids, and when she went with Silco he tried many times to rescue her, though how do you rescue that which does not want to be rescued? The quote from the game is like, I used to have a crush... until you started talking to the gun.
Yeah I really do hope in Season 2 we see a flash back of Ekko trying to save Jinx and failing and the loss her suffered because of it. No it's not necessary because the story has done such a good job showing us through Ekko's pain and change in attitude. But it would still be cool to see.
you guys are a little hard on jayce and a little soft on heimerdinger i think. to put it this way, piltover was founded by heimerdinger and he has been in charge for hundreds of years. he has presided over a situation where there is a clear two tier system of haves and have nots. the city of progress is stagnant when it comes to solving the issue of the undercity and its their responsibility as the government to fix it. in my opinion jayce was right when he called out heimerdinger that 'humans dont live for centuries' and they cant wait decades to test things when jayce has already proved that hextech can work. the poor needed help decades (if not centuries) ago and heimerdinger seems so flippant and not urgent at all when it comes to addressing it.
Ekko is my favorite character. It's not about politics, money, or power, it is about protecting the vulnerable. Piltover and Zaun aren't heaven and hell, they're two different kinds of corrupt. Chaotic demons and lawful devils. But yeah, this episode is amazing... and I really do find myself coming back to that scene between Ekko and Jinx a lot, even outside of re-watching the show. A fun thing that was pointed out a while ago... the mechanical firelights seemed drawn to weapons specifically. So, since Caitlyn traded her gun for the medicine for Vi last episode, she kind of wound up saving herself. Also, Powder was never innocent. Don't forget that her first self-defense instinct when she was cornered was to chuck something that was meant to be a nail bomb at another kid, and then in the next episode, she's telling Vi about all of the other bombs she made to help with taking out the enforcers. She has been cracked since early childhood. A lot of that is the traumatic environment that she grew up in... but yeah. It is brutal... but... the seeds were there.
The thing that I see in every reaction is folks thinking that Jynx was somehow going to die, many of them knowing that she's a character in the game, and fully understanding that this season is her story and there are two more episodes left. It's the power of the narration that you'll believe she's doomed so convincingly.
The more I watch people react to this show, the angrier I am about Heimerdinger. Yes, he's a very cute, wise little man that we all want to protect and we all hate Jayce for pushing him off the council. But let's not forget that he was a founder of Piltover. He FOUNDED a "city of progress" that runs off of basically slave labor, where half of the population is uber-wealthy and living in the lap of luxury, at the expense of the other half living in extreme poverty and filth. Viktor wouldn't have systemic health problems if Heimerdinger was a better leader. Jinx and Vi wouldn't be orphans, Vander would be alive, Silco wouldn't be a criminal, etc. Yeah, maybe delving too deep into magic could bring ruin like he says, but for half of his citizens this city is already a living hell. For all his mistakes, I'm glad Jayce kicked him out so he could go see what his city is really like.
Hence the opera house scene. Heimerdinger is the only one listening to the performance, oblivious to the corrupt deals being cemented around him by the other councilors. I'm not gonna go into the spoiler details, but the next episode he gets a bit into an eye opening character shift. Does it make up for literal centuries of being oblivious to the people's suffering? Of course not. And yet - there is a difference though between Silco's intentional infliction of suffering in Zaun and Heimer's unintentional one. But in the end, I agree, that difference doesn't matter unless the problems get fixed. It was Heimer's responsibility to fix it.
I think only Vi can contest his crown in terms of which character flaws are more overlooked. And at least Heimerdinger learned his error by the end of the season.
@@alexeyserov5709 Vi and Powder are interesting studies of the way environmental factors and trauma shape and create flaws and blind spots in a character. But you're right, where Jinx gets held accountable for her actions despite the undeniable influence of outside factors beyond her control, Vi really doesn't. She's not asked, in story or by viewers, to contemplate how - in addition to the contributions from her environment and past experiences - she herself has contributed to the person she is. Or, at least, she hasn't as of Season 1. Personally, I strongly suspect her complete obliviousness to what Jinx was *actually* asking of her and what Jinx *actually* needed from her in ep 9 (as opposed to what Vi *thought* Powder needed) will come back as a story point in S2.
You are reaching very hard here. It's like saying, everything is magics fault, because that is why Heimer was born. Also, what happens in P&Z is literally NOTHING compared to Rune Wars that almost destroyed the world, and ereased entire civilizations.
Silco choking everyone with Zaunian air while he stands there unaffected and berates them for growing complacent and weak under his reign is *such a fucking power move.* Easily one of the best in all of fiction. Even Tywin walking up the stairs can’t beat this moment.
Damn the girls on the left made a very intelligent if very cold point in the fact that Marcus could have invented a story about trying to create a cover into the undercity mafia, and instead chose to continue simply work with Silko. Her point has the strenght of realism; he had to find a way out of his mistake while trying to do good in the process. What is strinking me in her argument is that in the real world we can't expect people to be perfectly virtuous, but that there are realistic ways to both saving your individual wellbeing and trying to act for the common good.
I think Marcus's last thoughts were regret. He was already there with Kaitlin. "Tell my daughter I'm *sorry*". In his last moments he's apologizing for his weakness. He knew what the right thing to do was so many times but he chose self-preservation over doing the right thing, maybe even using his daughter's life as justification. It's not a redemption, but it does complete his arch: a man doing the wrong things for "family" filled with regret. (Because it was always selfish; prestige, power, safety et cetera) It's a mirror. Xander and Vi, Silco and Powder, Marcus and his daughter, Kaitlin and her parents, Jace and his, the medarda family. There's so much subtext and commentary about family. Looking forward to the final episodes from ya! (I could write a thesis over this series, it's that well done)
You guys kinda missed the evolution of Marcus' arc. He got paid off to help silco, i assume capture Vander, was pissed when his boss that he respected got murdered, he hid Vi away in prison where Silco didn't know about her, Silco basically had him and his family under constant threat of death, you saw the daydream of him blowing himself and Silco up with Jinx's grenade. Marcus wasn't a good dude, but there was a lot more to everything.
Even if Silco did not threaten is life he could still destroy him. Marcus got his superior killed. If Silco would get the world out how Grayson died, the consil would go for Marcus "head". As soon Grayson died Marcus was in Silco's pocket.
The thing to think about re: silco and marcus - silco threatened Marcus's daughter. He made a show that he'd be able to get to his daughter's room at the same time he was giving Marcus the order to do something about Caitlyn. The implication is clear. And I don't think this is the first time, either. When silco left, he also the room, he also dropped a card on ren's tower (clearly on purpose) and said "accidents happen", implying that he'd make whatever happened look like an accident
Viktor saying "Jayce will understand" to the doc, only to return to a blockade ordered by Jayce to keep out the "dangerous" people of the undercity. The writing is fabulous!
I don't think Marcus was in it for the money. I think the offer of money helped him make the bad decision to make a deal with Silco in the first place, but I'm not even convinced he kept most of it after throwing the bad away when the deal went south. He kept the bloody coin as a reminder of what he did, but did he even take back the rest of it? Maybe. But once Grayson died it wasn't worth it to him anymore. My sense is past that point Silco had him in his grip. He'd just been in on a deal that got Grayson killed, I don't know that he believed he could fix anything by coming clean about it. We can see that he thought about sacrificing himself to take Silco down, but he had a daughter - he couldn't leave her alone. I fully believe he would have pulled the pin on that grenade in the earlier episode if he wasn't a father. He wasn't a good person, but I think he wanted to be. And his single worst decision shaped all his options past that point. I feel like there's something very tragic about that.
If you watch the Ekko cinematic that Riot made for his character's introduction to League of Legends, the mural does come back into play. It's just... a little different, mostly because this series hadn't been fleshed out at all when that video came out in 2015. I think the scene from the show is meant as a nod to people who have kept up with the lore and also gives lore knowledge to those who don't have it.
This is the episode where it goes from great to epic. That Jinx and Echo fight at the end is one of my favorite things from any show. It only gets better from here too!
Marcus is such an underrated character. He is the most real, the most realistic character in the show. He is a good man who is trying his best to do the right thing, but always fails to do so, because he has so much to loose. His position, reputation, his daughter. People want to believe that in his situation they would do the right thing, truth is, most people would do what he did, just take coin and instead of doing the right thing, do best they can. It is unfortunate that so many people dismiss Marcus as just crooked cop, when he is so much more.
He would have never been in that situation if he hadn't sold out, everything he did wasn't because he was a good man in a bad spot, he was a dirty cop desperate to keep his position while he helped destroy and kill thousands of people
He's not a good man, he's a bigot blinded by his hate. Now he's not unredeemable evil and he clearly is sinking in his poor choices but he's not a good man. Perhaps a good father but that doesn't make a good man. He certainly has depth and tries at times to redeem himself but he fails at every one of those opportunities. He's a bigot who wants to protect his people from the 'wrong kind of folk'.
And Silco tricked him when he had Grayson killed, basically making him an accomplish. And then Silco showed up in his home and more or less threatened his daughter. He tries to resist in small ways, like sneaking Vi away and telling Silco she was dead, but he's really trapped between a rock and a hard place.
It’s crazy how many people who I’ve seen react to this show never look at things from Piltover’s POV. People from the Undercity blew up an apartment building, killed the former Sheriff and a few other enforcers, blew up 6 other enforcers (nearly 7 but Cait survived), and stole technology that’s extremely powerful and can be used to create nuke-level weapons….of course Piltover should create their own countermeasures!
People don't often choose to take the side of an obvious oppressing force that's responsible for everyone else's hardships. Piltover is directly responsible for the poverty and violence Zaun experiences past and present. They created the environment necessary for Vi & Powder's parents to feel the need to rebel and for Viktor to acquire his terminal disease, they created a system that empowers the Chem barons. Piltover is extracting all the wealth, health, and labor of Zaun. That's how they got so powerful.
@@legitimatemedicine it’s not about “taking the side” of Piltover. It’s about recognizing the motivations of the characters and understanding why they’re reacting how they are.
Also Jayce and Viktor do want to genuinely help the people. That is their goal. While Jayce may lose track of it for a bit because of outside influences, both of them live in the topside and genuinely want to help them.
"Ugh it's so good!!" 😂 Yes!!! I love how you were talking how the animation was more subdued and i was just waiting for the Ekko X Jinx fight scene!! 😃
Jinx is more Schizoaffective and Borderline Perspnality Disorder than DID actually. She`s also a talented ventriloquist in the Game which was implied with her mocking impression of Silco which will eventually become the "Fishbones" voice.
Marcus didn't work with Silco just for money. He did it because he hated that Vander stood for the under city and Silco offered to kill Vander and pay him. It was supposed to be a win win
I'm glad a show like Arcane and animated movies like the Spider-Man films and the TMNT film take animation into some new directions. I've gotten really tired of that sanitized Pixar/Dreamworks generic style that's been the mainstay since Toy Story.
Since I saw the preview that you already did episode 9......that mural in Ekko's hideout doesn't really come back into play BUT if you watch the champion trailer for Ekko for the game it DOES. Additionally there is a short comic about why some of the people on the mural are so important to him and why he preserves it. =)
Yes, the mechanical butterflies on the bridge were Jinx's creation as bombs. However, if you think back in episode 4 Progress Day, you catch a glimpse of a real mechanical butterfly. Also, in another episode you see Jinx tinkering with one of the mechanical butterflies most probably her attempt to make those bombs.
I like how over half the end talk was about Marcus and how much they hate them. It's easy to look at someone else's decisions and say 'You should just do the right thing'. As if either of these two would stand up for 'what's right' if someone like a daughter's life was on the line.
It also ignores the fact his mentor was very much in a similar arrangement with Vander. Marcus is following in her footsteps, trying to hold things together. But the circumstances are different. Like you said - so easy to ignore these subtle but important notes from afar.
@@Matthew-bx5yf He wouldn't be in that arrangement with Silco if he hadn't been arrogant and rash and made a deal behind Grayson's back. He's definitely an interesting character, he tries doing his best but falls woefully short and has been in over his head since the beginning. He has himself to blame for his end, and he also deserves some blame for everything that transpired
When Viktor disarmed the granate he didnt hesitate cause he was unsure if this was the right wire. He was unsure cause only him and Jayce are able to weaponize hextech and if the granate explode they both die. When he turns and says: "There is always a choice." gives my chills everytime. Also the hexcore react to organic matter and Viktor tries it with plants. They always dies because they are not resillient enough. With shimmer he made his body reslliant so he can stand the hexcore. Whatever happend to him ;-)
The thing with Marcus is that he's a single father, he wants to do the right thing, but that'll end up with him in jail, or in the ground, leaving his daughter alone.
viktor was gonna let the bomb go off, when he paused when he was cutting the wire. Also can't wait for them to see those other scenes with silco gonna be glorious.
"Ugh it's exhausting. We get it," she says doing her damnedest to ignore all the nuances of an incredibly complex relationship unfolding between two deeply troubled characters
Marcus shouldn't be forgiven for what he has done but we should understand he is a product of his environment. Catline was able to see through the tribalism, but that is because she grew up with smart wealthy parents and she was also naturally much smarter than Marcus.
Re: the mural y'all have finished the season so this isn't a spoiler that the mural hasn't come back up but I'm fully expecting someone to attack the firelight sanctuary and damage the mural. Either that's the wall they explode to get in, or it gets caught in the crossfire or something
Yeah, Marcus is a tragic character. He got in bed with Silco because he was a hot head, and then immediately got implicated in the murder of his mentor. Not much chance to escape without losing everything.
Why don't you think about Marcus as a character a little more. That's all I can say. Lol.. Like.. It's clear you don't like him, fair, but also it's a bit deeper than what you have him credit for.
4:46 "...he's been using his voice incorrectly, I feel like." Classic. A man does the best he can in a completely fucked situation, and he still gets taken to task for it by the ladies. The dude almost single-handedly made Piltover a global power. And while he's made some blunders after the fact, big ones even, it's just kind of annoying to hear. My man Jayce is trying to walk the tightrope between progress and security, truth and politics, power and restraint. But no, he just needs to "do better". Just because bad things come of a decision in the short term doesn't mean its a bad decision. In fact, it's often the opposite. Good decisions pay off dividends later, and bad decisions tend to pay off right away. I'm not even defending Jayce's actions, I'm just saying I think its unfair to box him in as "the problem", when, if you recall Episode I, his fundamental value as a character is he wants to help people with magic the way it helped him. Meanwhile most of the other Councillors are only out for their own gain. And no matter what you think about Piltover vs. Zaun, the fact remains that the lanes DO harbor criminals and actively encourage bad behavior, and they are as much to blame for their lot as Piltover is. So I dunno. Hard to blame him and the other Councillors for looking down on that sort of thing. Particularly after Jinx BOMBED Progress Day and stole HexTech components. Then at 16:30 you say "HE'S SO EASILY MANIPULATED". Why do I get the feeling you feel this way simply because it differs from your own personal feelings on today's political climate? I don't know why the two of you are this suspicious of Mel. Yes she's manipulative, but I always read her feelings for Jayce to be complicated, if not genuine, from the get go. Even before she made her move, so to speak. Her and Jayce have shared many intimate moments up until this point, without any hint of manipulation. Yet when she makes a valid point, you assume she's just trying to seize power. This is hilarious cuz it gets disproved the very next episode. And Jayce is justified in taking Mel's point seriously here, manipulation or not. You both say the lanes are at a disadvantage already. But...Piltover doesn't have HexTech weapons. Right? If Zaun gets them first, that would PUT PILTOVER AT THE DISADVANTAGE, wouldn't it? So it makes sense to develop your own defenses NOW, so you're not caught with your pants down WHEN the undercity uses their new HexTech weapons. I also have to point out that you girls go off about Jayce, while Viktor is performing technomagic without any supervision, help or even an idea of what will happen, using a HexCore that can THINK and seems to crave organic matter. And if you only knew anything about what Viktor becomes based on the game, I would hope you'd think twice about which dude is committing the greater sin here. XD The fact that these casual moral statements were your knee-jerk reactions? I just think it says a lot about your characters, and less about Jayce's or Mel's. TL;DR Grow up you two. XD
Careful of spoilers Also, i might not agree with them all the time, but how long have we (viewers of Arcane) had time to process our thoughts on the story, also with the knowledge of the entire series? This is their first time reactions, and like many of the characters, are caught up in their own emotions and perspectives. Yes their perspectives are impacting their reactions, that's the whole point of the show. The cool thing about Arcane is that the more you watch, the more you can see how all the characters have their own perspectives, and it invites viewers to take a look at their own. I dont think it's helpful to demean these ladies' character because they dont have the same reaction as you
@@silver9wolf6 It's not helpful? What am I hurting by criticizing them exactly? Your point, while true, does nothing to dismiss what I said. I still think they're coming at the show with a weird lens and its led them to prematurely judge a character for his mistakes while completely missing everything good he's done up until this point. You are correct that the great thing about this story is how it asks you to reflect upon your beliefs about social justice, etc. etc. But that's not what they're doing in these moments. They aren't following the shows narrative and going "Hmm. This Jayce guy, he's really complex. He's going astray here, but this thing he did was really good." and so on. They're just condemning him because they're following THEIR own weird narrative about right and wrong. TL;DR They aren't engaging with the depth of the show much at all and their strong feelings about this or that come off as childish because of it.
@wilder11 Hey! What I mean by not helpful is where you seem to say that their first time or knee-jerk reactions reflect poorly on their own character. And maybe I’m misinterpreting or over-reacting to what you were saying in your last paragraph and TLDR. Arcane more than most shows nowadays requires a re-watch (or 7 XD) because there’s so much going on and we’ve gotten used to lazy writing, it’s easy on first watch to put characters into stereotypes. I’m just saying that encouraging them to ‘take another look and see it from all the characters perspectives’ and just sharing your own perspective would probably be received better than telling them to grow up and stop being childish. That tends to make people defensive (or others defensive on their behalf, like myself) :) I honestly agree with most of your points too. I like Mel and think she’s pretty genuine most of the time. I think people give Viktor way too much lenience in his desperation, and I think Jayce gets a lot of undeserved hate. They’re all intriguing, complex characters.
"silco and Vander are not the same thing" Honestly they are, Silco is just equal to the earlier younger version of Vander before the children changed his heart.
Im really hoping they pick up Blue eye Samurai, if they like this animation style. its a sleeper animation on Netflix. with an amazing story. its like Kill Bill Meets Afro Saurai, with a little Disney Mulan sprinkled into a very adult animation, with writers from the Marvel movie, Logan.
As someone with complex PTSD, bipolar disorder, depersonalization (dissociation), and a past (thankfully long past) history of psychosis, I can say that it is VERY EASY to identify with Jinx.
Hey guys! I'm really enjoying your commentary, but I did just want to warn against the way you throw psychological terms around a little recklessly. Particularly BPD, cPTSD and DID are pretty poorly understood by most people, and misrepresenting them like this can both be offensive to people who do have these diagnoses, and may be confusing or dangerous to people who struggle with symptoms similar to what these characters are going through and might be led down the wrong path. By all means call out individual symptoms you recognize (although those are also often misrepresented), but please leave the diagnosing to professionals. We're also taught to avoid doing things like diagnosing fictional characters for these same reasons. They're not our patients, they can't be held to human standards, and it's not appropriate to label them as such. Anyway, I hope this is helpful, and I'm glad you're enjoying the show! It's very dear to me
"Evil magician", I think I get what Maple meant. Silco appears to have a good sense of performance, purpose, and considers his audience in his actions. Magic, or illusion, is a competitive sport with people's perceptions and Silco appears to apply the same sort of premeditation when threatening people.
the scenes are all good but ari face at the end hurts my heart, I went thru the same thing. the emotional gut punches are real, I hope you got a big hug after that 🌊🫂
Lol Marcus is the most decent character in this show .. he isn't a good guy but he also isn't a bad guy and he has good intentions and he always try to do the good thing for his people , he is a good father and cares about the police officers that work under him .... i really dont get the overhating thing you got for him ... without him vi would have been litterlly dead , he protected her from slico ..... but i guess that doesn't matter because he got blood money and a character can't have flaws in your eyes.
Him saving Vi by putting her in an unnamed cell where she's beaten and possibly worse for years is not a kind act. If we assume the worst he had a teenage girl prison raped for years because he couldn't kill her. That's not kindness. The guy certainly is more egotistical and weak willed than straight up evil but what he does for Vi isn't kindness. He breaks the rules wherever it's convenient and when faced with the chance to set it right takes the easy way out.
His shortsightedness led to Grayson being killed and himself being indebted to a criminal. He acts rashly and is in way over his head, and now his only way forward is to escalate things even further. And he has himself to blame for that. Don't get me wrong, I think he is a great character and there's definitely nuance in the reasons he has for acting a certain way. But let's not pretend like he was some kind of saint only doing the best he could in a corrupt system.
@@mormacil yes because you know that he specifically wanted her to get r*ped and beaten? When in the story does he have a chance to set things right? Besides blowing himself up there wasn't much he could do in his situation. I would argue that going to prison is definitely better than being executed, which one would you choose if it was your life?
Well, though he is not THE worst, or even THE bad guy, which nobody in the show is, the whole show is about how grey it all is. Saying he "isn't a bad guy" is... i don't even know...crazy? Putting innocent child in prison where she was beaten, possibly worse, for years - i would say, is alone worthy of being called, not just bad, but a complete piece of shit, that should never have any power over anybody. In this episode, he finds a thing he was looking for (the gem) and instantly just shoots a person who had it, he hesitates about Kaitlyn just because he knows her, she is topside, she was a cop and so on, otherwise he would just shoot her as well. He is a piece of shit. A person can "care about his people", think he is doing the right thing all he wants, but if he is doing evil shit, it is still "evil". During WW2, most german soldiers were convinced that they were doing the right thing. They were not.
@@praisethefirstborn6226 He could confess he had her imprisoned, that would've set it right. He could've quietly released her, that set it right. He could've not locked up a child without due process. He had lots of choices. The fact if he wanted or not for her to be raped is entirely irrelevant if it happens it's still a gross action by him. While intent matters a lack of intent doesn't clear you entirely. Personally I rather die than be beaten and raped for years on end with all the trauma that comes with it. It's the more humane choice.
Just wanna note at 15:45, Poor Jayce. Man got friendzoned by Cait and the only time she really mentions him is when SHE needs something. I didn’t forget the way she threw homie’s flowers!
Shits about to get real. Also, the show changed it’s theme song just for you guys! Also, good call Arianna. And I know Mel has her agenda, but I think she genuinely cares for Jace.
The whole point why Silco does this is to make life better for the people living around him. If he starts weaponizing them into monsters, the whole point goes away
@@minartson Not really. Zaun definitely did prosper thanks to shimmer. For Silco, it was a necessary sacrifice to avoid getting completely left behind by Piltover.
One thing to remember about this show is that the game it's based off has 160+ playable characters. This translates to a LOT more people having 'plot armor' than you'd usually expect, both on the bad and the good side.
160+ characters in the entirety of the game, meaning that only about 140 are human beings living in a world where there's *billions* of humans. Sticking specifically to the show, that's only 10 champions out of two big cities with hundreds of people, and only 3 of them have had near-death experiences and survived. It's not plot armor, it's just a character surviving something, which is a thing that always happens with action dramas like this.
I mean. A lot of people coming to Marcus' defense are missing the fact that he's largely responsible for his own situation. When Grayson was still Sheriff, Marcus had a huge bug up his butt and downright prejudice against the Undercity, believing in his superiority and nobility and decency while *taking literal blood money* and committing state-sanctioned violence against people for the crime of *disrespect.* Mathematically, at the time, it would not appear he *had* a daughter. So Marcus made a deal with the devil believing himself the moral superior. It turns out the devil is the devil, and instead of doing the right thing, he just kept digging his own grave. The easiest solution - don't betray Grayson in the first place. Your boss, who is clearly grooming you to be her replacement some day, who is carefully trying to walk you from the lofty heights of your own self-importance into the delicate, ugly truths of the real world. A person who he KNOWS is good and is trying to do the right thing. Nope. Gotta jump up that corporate ladder. Gotta get the respect he "deserves." Gotta seize those "opportunities." Marcus is the quintessential ACAB example. He's a garbage rotter who deserves what he got and whose daughter deserved better. I'm not saying it'd be easy, but you gotta learn from those mistakes, my guy.
Marcus was right about the undercity. Jayce went shopping there one time and they followed him home to steal from him later and when they did it they blew up a building and hurt people. their crimes were literal crimes, not just "disrespect" like your insane rant proposes.
I know that's his in-game power, but i dont think he has that in the show (or yet if that' something they want to do). He survived getting shot because he has a chestplate on (you can see the bullet flattened on it).
Ekko uses hextech to rewind time in the game, it's not his natural power, he doesn't have his toolset yet, the stroy takes place before you see him in-game.
Th Ekko V Jinx is a breathtaking splendor within absolute perfection, not just in the visualization but also in storytelling, which is why this masterpiece show is so rightfully renowned.. sheeeeeeesh 🥹👊🏻
Every time Silco speaks, you can't help but listen. Such a captivating character.
..and voice.. the timbre, I mean.. ..he also, just like everyone else, thinks theyre doing the right thing.. and cadence of his delivery does wonders for the lines too.. literal perfect casting and character design..
The man oozes charisma.
The underground council meeting is so good. God I love Silco
a shame they are always looking for ''bright colours''
One of the best villains in the recent years. At least in a series. He has depth, he has convictions, but he's still a bad guy and the show never makes you doubt that. But you still like him in a way and you want him to succeed as well. That takes a lot of talent and good writing, along with the voice acting.
As an animator that sequence between jinx and ekko is one of the best animation sequences in animation history.
The story, the character art, the style and character animation meld into pure magic.
Showing Ekko getting shot in their memory amped up the anticipation and suspense, "Did he get shot in real life?"
But then the memory was used to avoid getting shot again. Perfect scene.
It also ties into the time shifting powers he should develop in season 2 to be in line with his in game powers.
Fun Fact, in the official game and the card game, Ekko has custom lines for Jinx
"I use to have a crush on you, until you started talking to the guns"
and
"Powder, I miss you so much"
"Innocence and Instinct" dives into powder and ekko's relationship and their contact during the time skip in a video about jinx's diary, I really recommend checking it out!
Ekko keeps telling Vi throughout the episode that Powder is gone.. and then by the end you can tell he finally sees her again.. so heartbreaking.
Not so fun fact: the animators have a powder face and a jinx face to really hammer home how the characters see her and how she wants others to see.
Jinx was humming the same song that she sang at the opening scene of the first episode
She also passively shoots an enforcer the same way she saw an enforcer passively shooting a rioter in the opening as well.
Right.
@@wjhull she does, that's right.
Marcus is an example of someone who got himself into a bad position because he was a dick and then when he was trying to make amends for his actions he wasn't smart or brave enough to actually figure out a way out and just kept digging himself deeper. His death is a tragic one, not because he didn't deserve it, but because he failed to overcome his own flaws in order to follow the right path which he clearly saw and wanted to reach.
He’s also trying to mimic what he saw Grayson doing. Grayson was making deals with vander, so he tried to do the same with Silco not realizing how different it was
Yeah, it's a great example of someone failing their character arc. Like he's not a flat character at all, he's as well rounded as any of them, but where as the others overcome thwir weaknesses and make up for their flaws, Marcus just keeps digging himself deeper and deeper in the well of his mistakes.
My favorite episode of the entire series. That sequence before Ekko and Jinx fight is iconic.
I think Ekko is a homage to Rufio. Iykyk
This fight is iconic af, and really sad at the end. Though I think my personal favorite fight comes next episode, mainly cause the song is such a fucking banger.
@@solongdentahlplaan7975 He does have a big Rufio vibe. In his original lore from the game he forms a group called the Lost Children of Zaun, alluding to the Lost Boys in Peter Pan. His whole character represents community and anti-establishment in a way.
@joaovieira1595 daaang, I never knew that; never played the game either. Thanks, man!
Ekko! Ekko! EKK-OOOOOOOO!
So many people think Heimerdinger's this really wise guru when Jayce was right about everything he said to him. If he was as great as everyone claims he is then there wouldn't be so many problems with Piltover and the Undercity. Even if he stopped Jayce from inventing Hextech, Silco would have just continued producing more and more dangerous versions of Shimmer and things would have ended up even worse without something to stop him.
Heim never cared to find out what was going on in his own backyard and the guy had hundreds of years to do so.
Exactly. I don't think Heimer is a bad person/yordle or character, but his immortality makes him incredibly detached and aloof. Basically, Heimer and Jayce suffer from competing versions of idealism--while Jayce values the material present for obvious reasons, Heimer values theory and principle over material concerns. To him, the material world is fleeting, so the constants to which he holds necessarily need to be abstract. Whereas Jayce sometimes has trouble seeing the forest for the trees, Heimerdinger often has trouble seeing the trees for the forest. What needs to happen is a synthesis between addressing short-term concerns while considering long-term consequences, and that will always require compromise.
Yeah the guy founded this city and has always been part of the ruling concil, and it ended up with half the population living in terrible condition breathing poisonous air.
It's quite evident the guy is a terrible ruler.
Even as a person , he means well but he is all talk and no action and only says platitudes.
Shimmer became a problem under HEIMERDINGER'S watch. The undercity fell under decay because of his aloofness. Jayce may be rash sometimes, but Mel was right when she said Jayce did the right thing. Everybody in an elite position in Piltover needed a serious wake-up call.
I also think many people go WAY too hard on Mel. She wants Piltover to succeed and prosper. She doesn't want war. She doesn't want violence. But she will also prioritize defense in the immediate even if it might have terrible long-term consequences. She wants to guarantee Piltover's survival, no matter the cost.
And I don't think Jayce is really being twisted that hard to agree with her--he has become the de facto head of the council, and by extension, the city. It's pretty clear he would feel like he was betraying his responsibility if he didn't prepare for the worst. But I honestly think one of Jayce's biggest blind spots, at least until the beginning of the final episode, is that he places too much esteem in Piltover itself. It gave him opportunity, and allowed him to advance via merit, but it almost cast him out, too, just as it has left so many of its own citizens in the shadows. Piltover is a product of Heimerdinger's idealism, but Jayce has a completely different worldview that he tries to mold to live up to the legacy of the city. What he really should have done is come out swinging, breaking wrenches just like he did in inventing HexTech. He finally realizes this is the solution in the final episode, but by then it's too late.
Marcus wasn't planning on being a crooked cop. He just wanted to get Vander. He hated the guy, thought he was the same "scum" as the rest of the undercity "rats." He didn't like Grayson's deal with him. Plus, he thought getting the arrest would look good for his professional reputation. What he didn't count on was Silco killing Grayson. That made him unwittingly and unwillingly complicit in the murder of the chief of police. And now Silco has something on him. If Marcus ever brought Silco to justice, he'd lose everything.
That bridge scene gets me every time
I like Jace's arc. It really shows how his idealism is corrupted by the system he lives in.
He wants to do the right thing, but he is constantly being told by others what is right and what is wrong, who 'his people' are, who 'the other guys' are.
He is the very symbol of a character who was pushed into power for having a very specific skill (His inventiveness) and is suddenly made to lead, and the only people he can look to for guidance, the people who are seniors at this and have been doing it for longer, are all too happy to use his lack of experience and his kindness for their own ends. He should have followed the advice of Heimerdinger above any of the others, but the problem is Heimerdinger doesn't really know how to talk to people, especially Humans, in a way that will make them understand him. He can teach, especially scientific things. But he has no clue how to talk to someone who is essentially a child, and get them to understand his reasoning for why they shouldn't do something they want to do. Because of that, of trying to control Hextech which was the right call, he alienated himself from Jayce, and Jayce only had people who wanted to use him to turn to.
At least we know there's a greater future for him ahead.
He's a naive idealist who was made an oligarch against his will. He knows the politics enough to play the game. The only problem is now the game is playing him.
@@bellidrael7457 except Heimerdinger was wrong the whole time. Heimerdinger doesnt just fail to understand how to talk to humans, he doesnt understand humans at all. thats why all these problems have been festering for 2 centuries under his watch. just like Mel said, everything Jayce said about Heimerdinger was right.
@@unrelatedcoma him being a poor leader doesn't mean he didn't make the right call about hextech, at least morally speaking. He literally doesnt die so of course he doesn't understand humans. I think the biggest mistake was giving heimer so much power, because even though he isnt corrupt, he's the only non-corrupt councilor. Which doesn't mean much if the rest are already bought.
@@praisethefirstborn6226 he didnt make the right call about hextech at any point. he wanted to kill the project without even trying it, instead Jayce and Viktor do it illegally and it leads to making Piltover the most prosperous city on the planet while advancing science generationally, he refused to let them put the advancements of the gemstone into use even though it could help people immediately, and he wanted to destroy the hexcore because he was scared. being scared of something isnt being morally correct.
"there is always a choice" Grenade scene, only had 1 wire, and while he didn't know for sure if it'd stop it or not, it definitely seemed like Viktor was considering letting it explode so that no weapons could be made by themselves
and the Bridge fight scene hurts real bad with the context of Ekko having feelings for Powder before her changes
I will say, for all of Jayce's faults, he didn't move away either. He stood there, ready to stand with Viktor if it blew up (whether he knew Viktor was going to let it or whether he'd fail to disarm it). It's the little touches like that in everyone's characters that made this show a 20/10 for me. :)
@@peppypaladin8842 i think the concept of Jayces "faults" are a bit overblown. hes an idealist and is always doing the best he can.
@@unrelatedcoma Fair, I just mean that for all the crap he gets, he is loyal and loves his friend enough to stand there and share his fate.
@@peppypaladin8842 yeh agreed, he even asked Viktor to give the speech with him and Viktor refused but reactors often give him crap for not arguing harder to drag Viktor up there lol... people are just primed to see his faults for some reason
The scene was great but nobody holds simple childhood crushes that long, specially in a World like that where you have to basically fight for your survival. He also saw Jinx just casually kill like 10-20 completely innocent men so weird he hesitated.
also if vou notice in the past episode jinx is always on high alert trying to avoid death. But in the scene in episode 7 when ekkos is on top of her, her face relaxes and smiles. She doesn't move away from the bom she stays right under ekko, like she wanted to die. Jinx has been dealing with trama for years and by her self. Most people think about actually committing suicide. The fight between ekko and inx was the same play fight they did when they were kids so it must have been a nostalgic moment for her. So why not die in the arms of her childhood best friend?
Plus in the game it was mentioned that ekko had a crush on powder when they were kids. And the arcane enemy music video shows there were a lot of scenes of ekko and powder together as kids.
I think folks go a little too hard on Jayce.. he doesn't have an omniscient perspective like the audience.. he's a good guy, but misguided and distracted, but he never enacts an action that isn't something he thinks will be for the greater good..
People who hate on him are mostly people who didn't pay attention to his arc.
just like Jayce said, to the people think he only makes bad decisions, "what's your plan to fix this?", why didn't he just fix decades old of systematic problems lmao
I get that Imagine Dragons isnt for everyone, but the hip hop song at the start and the intro song have nothing in common.
Yeah. I roll my eyes every time a reactor is upset about ID in Arcane. I only know two of their songs and one of them is someone else's cover anyway. It just reminds me of the hatred Nickelback got. Every 5 to 10 years, there's the new band that's cool to hate. Fine, follow the pack or, hell, hate them for your own reasons, but it doesn't make you cool.
I just get irked when people get so wrapped up in it that they spend more time dwelling on ID than what's going on while it's playing. This, however, is the worst example that I've seen... completely missing the Firelight's awesome song and art because you're too busy INCORRECTLY thinking it's the band you hate.
she said they did a "deep dive" which i guess means they listened to the album version of the song that features rapper JID. its kinda funny that the instant Maple heard a rap song by Pusha T and Mako and immediately thought it was the JID verse from the Imagine Dragons song lol...
So little bit about the fight since you asked what was happening, it is a game they played as kids yes, but also in the game Ekko's ability is to turn back time for a few seconds and learn from mistakes. Now in Arcane he has not yet developed the thing that lets him do this, but it is a reference to his fighting style as well. Also little tidbit of lore knowledge and why Jinx calls him boy savior, he had a crush on her when they were kids, and when she went with Silco he tried many times to rescue her, though how do you rescue that which does not want to be rescued? The quote from the game is like, I used to have a crush... until you started talking to the gun.
Yeah I really do hope in Season 2 we see a flash back of Ekko trying to save Jinx and failing and the loss her suffered because of it. No it's not necessary because the story has done such a good job showing us through Ekko's pain and change in attitude. But it would still be cool to see.
I agree that they MUST add the flashback when he tried to save her on season 2
you guys are a little hard on jayce and a little soft on heimerdinger i think. to put it this way, piltover was founded by heimerdinger and he has been in charge for hundreds of years. he has presided over a situation where there is a clear two tier system of haves and have nots. the city of progress is stagnant when it comes to solving the issue of the undercity and its their responsibility as the government to fix it. in my opinion jayce was right when he called out heimerdinger that 'humans dont live for centuries' and they cant wait decades to test things when jayce has already proved that hextech can work. the poor needed help decades (if not centuries) ago and heimerdinger seems so flippant and not urgent at all when it comes to addressing it.
Ekko is my favorite character. It's not about politics, money, or power, it is about protecting the vulnerable. Piltover and Zaun aren't heaven and hell, they're two different kinds of corrupt. Chaotic demons and lawful devils. But yeah, this episode is amazing... and I really do find myself coming back to that scene between Ekko and Jinx a lot, even outside of re-watching the show.
A fun thing that was pointed out a while ago... the mechanical firelights seemed drawn to weapons specifically. So, since Caitlyn traded her gun for the medicine for Vi last episode, she kind of wound up saving herself.
Also, Powder was never innocent. Don't forget that her first self-defense instinct when she was cornered was to chuck something that was meant to be a nail bomb at another kid, and then in the next episode, she's telling Vi about all of the other bombs she made to help with taking out the enforcers. She has been cracked since early childhood. A lot of that is the traumatic environment that she grew up in... but yeah. It is brutal... but... the seeds were there.
The thing that I see in every reaction is folks thinking that Jynx was somehow going to die, many of them knowing that she's a character in the game, and fully understanding that this season is her story and there are two more episodes left. It's the power of the narration that you'll believe she's doomed so convincingly.
The more I watch people react to this show, the angrier I am about Heimerdinger. Yes, he's a very cute, wise little man that we all want to protect and we all hate Jayce for pushing him off the council.
But let's not forget that he was a founder of Piltover. He FOUNDED a "city of progress" that runs off of basically slave labor, where half of the population is uber-wealthy and living in the lap of luxury, at the expense of the other half living in extreme poverty and filth. Viktor wouldn't have systemic health problems if Heimerdinger was a better leader. Jinx and Vi wouldn't be orphans, Vander would be alive, Silco wouldn't be a criminal, etc. Yeah, maybe delving too deep into magic could bring ruin like he says, but for half of his citizens this city is already a living hell. For all his mistakes, I'm glad Jayce kicked him out so he could go see what his city is really like.
Hence the opera house scene. Heimerdinger is the only one listening to the performance, oblivious to the corrupt deals being cemented around him by the other councilors.
I'm not gonna go into the spoiler details, but the next episode he gets a bit into an eye opening character shift. Does it make up for literal centuries of being oblivious to the people's suffering? Of course not. And yet - there is a difference though between Silco's intentional infliction of suffering in Zaun and Heimer's unintentional one.
But in the end, I agree, that difference doesn't matter unless the problems get fixed. It was Heimer's responsibility to fix it.
I think only Vi can contest his crown in terms of which character flaws are more overlooked. And at least Heimerdinger learned his error by the end of the season.
@@alexeyserov5709 Vi and Powder are interesting studies of the way environmental factors and trauma shape and create flaws and blind spots in a character.
But you're right, where Jinx gets held accountable for her actions despite the undeniable influence of outside factors beyond her control, Vi really doesn't.
She's not asked, in story or by viewers, to contemplate how - in addition to the contributions from her environment and past experiences - she herself has contributed to the person she is.
Or, at least, she hasn't as of Season 1.
Personally, I strongly suspect her complete obliviousness to what Jinx was *actually* asking of her and what Jinx *actually* needed from her in ep 9 (as opposed to what Vi *thought* Powder needed) will come back as a story point in S2.
@@jeffkoenig7402How was it his responsibility? Like Mel said, he isn't a politician, but a scientist. Heimer isn't a fking dictator.
You are reaching very hard here. It's like saying, everything is magics fault, because that is why Heimer was born. Also, what happens in P&Z is literally NOTHING compared to Rune Wars that almost destroyed the world, and ereased entire civilizations.
Silco choking everyone with Zaunian air while he stands there unaffected and berates them for growing complacent and weak under his reign is *such a fucking power move.* Easily one of the best in all of fiction. Even Tywin walking up the stairs can’t beat this moment.
Damn the girls on the left made a very intelligent if very cold point in the fact that Marcus could have invented a story about trying to create a cover into the undercity mafia, and instead chose to continue simply work with Silko.
Her point has the strenght of realism; he had to find a way out of his mistake while trying to do good in the process.
What is strinking me in her argument is that in the real world we can't expect people to be perfectly virtuous, but that there are realistic ways to both saving your individual wellbeing and trying to act for the common good.
I think Marcus's last thoughts were regret. He was already there with Kaitlin.
"Tell my daughter I'm *sorry*".
In his last moments he's apologizing for his weakness. He knew what the right thing to do was so many times but he chose self-preservation over doing the right thing, maybe even using his daughter's life as justification.
It's not a redemption, but it does complete his arch: a man doing the wrong things for "family" filled with regret. (Because it was always selfish; prestige, power, safety et cetera)
It's a mirror. Xander and Vi, Silco and Powder, Marcus and his daughter, Kaitlin and her parents, Jace and his, the medarda family.
There's so much subtext and commentary about family.
Looking forward to the final episodes from ya! (I could write a thesis over this series, it's that well done)
Echo and Jinx fight is one of the best the last 15 years of animation TV or movies. It was beautiful art telling a story.
You guys kinda missed the evolution of Marcus' arc. He got paid off to help silco, i assume capture Vander, was pissed when his boss that he respected got murdered, he hid Vi away in prison where Silco didn't know about her, Silco basically had him and his family under constant threat of death, you saw the daydream of him blowing himself and Silco up with Jinx's grenade. Marcus wasn't a good dude, but there was a lot more to everything.
Even if Silco did not threaten is life he could still destroy him. Marcus got his superior killed.
If Silco would get the world out how Grayson died, the consil would go for Marcus "head".
As soon Grayson died Marcus was in Silco's pocket.
The thing to think about re: silco and marcus - silco threatened Marcus's daughter. He made a show that he'd be able to get to his daughter's room at the same time he was giving Marcus the order to do something about Caitlyn. The implication is clear. And I don't think this is the first time, either.
When silco left, he also the room, he also dropped a card on ren's tower (clearly on purpose) and said "accidents happen", implying that he'd make whatever happened look like an accident
Yeah, this is one of the best animated sequences in any recent show, 10/10.
Viktor saying "Jayce will understand" to the doc, only to return to a blockade ordered by Jayce to keep out the "dangerous" people of the undercity. The writing is fabulous!
Great episode. The Ekko time-sequence is awesome.
I don't think Marcus was in it for the money. I think the offer of money helped him make the bad decision to make a deal with Silco in the first place, but I'm not even convinced he kept most of it after throwing the bad away when the deal went south. He kept the bloody coin as a reminder of what he did, but did he even take back the rest of it? Maybe. But once Grayson died it wasn't worth it to him anymore.
My sense is past that point Silco had him in his grip. He'd just been in on a deal that got Grayson killed, I don't know that he believed he could fix anything by coming clean about it. We can see that he thought about sacrificing himself to take Silco down, but he had a daughter - he couldn't leave her alone. I fully believe he would have pulled the pin on that grenade in the earlier episode if he wasn't a father.
He wasn't a good person, but I think he wanted to be. And his single worst decision shaped all his options past that point. I feel like there's something very tragic about that.
I forgot how young Ekko is. He became a great leader very early in life.
If you watch the Ekko cinematic that Riot made for his character's introduction to League of Legends, the mural does come back into play. It's just... a little different, mostly because this series hadn't been fleshed out at all when that video came out in 2015. I think the scene from the show is meant as a nod to people who have kept up with the lore and also gives lore knowledge to those who don't have it.
I always felt at the ending it was powder trying to finish herself off rather than jinx trying to kill ekko
This is the episode where it goes from great to epic. That Jinx and Echo fight at the end is one of my favorite things from any show. It only gets better from here too!
Marcus is such an underrated character. He is the most real, the most realistic character in the show. He is a good man who is trying his best to do the right thing, but always fails to do so, because he has so much to loose. His position, reputation, his daughter. People want to believe that in his situation they would do the right thing, truth is, most people would do what he did, just take coin and instead of doing the right thing, do best they can. It is unfortunate that so many people dismiss Marcus as just crooked cop, when he is so much more.
He would have never been in that situation if he hadn't sold out, everything he did wasn't because he was a good man in a bad spot, he was a dirty cop desperate to keep his position while he helped destroy and kill thousands of people
I 100% agree.
He's not a good man, he's a bigot blinded by his hate. Now he's not unredeemable evil and he clearly is sinking in his poor choices but he's not a good man. Perhaps a good father but that doesn't make a good man. He certainly has depth and tries at times to redeem himself but he fails at every one of those opportunities. He's a bigot who wants to protect his people from the 'wrong kind of folk'.
And Silco tricked him when he had Grayson killed, basically making him an accomplish. And then Silco showed up in his home and more or less threatened his daughter. He tries to resist in small ways, like sneaking Vi away and telling Silco she was dead, but he's really trapped between a rock and a hard place.
Just to remind you the seconds after Grayson's death: 'This was not the deal!'. He literally went to the Devil to sell his soul.
It’s crazy how many people who I’ve seen react to this show never look at things from Piltover’s POV. People from the Undercity blew up an apartment building, killed the former Sheriff and a few other enforcers, blew up 6 other enforcers (nearly 7 but Cait survived), and stole technology that’s extremely powerful and can be used to create nuke-level weapons….of course Piltover should create their own countermeasures!
People don't often choose to take the side of an obvious oppressing force that's responsible for everyone else's hardships. Piltover is directly responsible for the poverty and violence Zaun experiences past and present. They created the environment necessary for Vi & Powder's parents to feel the need to rebel and for Viktor to acquire his terminal disease, they created a system that empowers the Chem barons. Piltover is extracting all the wealth, health, and labor of Zaun. That's how they got so powerful.
@@legitimatemedicine it’s not about “taking the side” of Piltover. It’s about recognizing the motivations of the characters and understanding why they’re reacting how they are.
@@legitimatemedicine the criminals in the undercity empower the chem barons, not Piltover.
@@legitimatemedicine and another one under the influence of dualism
Also Jayce and Viktor do want to genuinely help the people. That is their goal. While Jayce may lose track of it for a bit because of outside influences, both of them live in the topside and genuinely want to help them.
"Ugh it's so good!!" 😂 Yes!!! I love how you were talking how the animation was more subdued and i was just waiting for the Ekko X Jinx fight scene!! 😃
Jinx is more Schizoaffective and Borderline Perspnality Disorder than DID actually. She`s also a talented ventriloquist in the Game which was implied with her mocking impression of Silco which will eventually become the "Fishbones" voice.
Marcus didn't work with Silco just for money. He did it because he hated that Vander stood for the under city and Silco offered to kill Vander and pay him. It was supposed to be a win win
I love how the show does parallels
Ekko made the choice to heal seconds before Medarda made the choice to respond with violence in fear.
That battle lives rent free in my head
I'm glad a show like Arcane and animated movies like the Spider-Man films and the TMNT film take animation into some new directions. I've gotten really tired of that sanitized Pixar/Dreamworks generic style that's been the mainstay since Toy Story.
Jinx didn't take the shot, though. She did when they used to play games, that is how Ekko still saw Powder inside even though he said Powder is gone.
Since I saw the preview that you already did episode 9......that mural in Ekko's hideout doesn't really come back into play BUT if you watch the champion trailer for Ekko for the game it DOES. Additionally there is a short comic about why some of the people on the mural are so important to him and why he preserves it. =)
I get CHILLS everytime I watch Ekko vs Jinx. This is my favorite episode of the show
Yes, the mechanical butterflies on the bridge were Jinx's creation as bombs. However, if you think back in episode 4 Progress Day, you catch a glimpse of a real mechanical butterfly. Also, in another episode you see Jinx tinkering with one of the mechanical butterflies most probably her attempt to make those bombs.
I like how over half the end talk was about Marcus and how much they hate them.
It's easy to look at someone else's decisions and say 'You should just do the right thing'. As if either of these two would stand up for 'what's right' if someone like a daughter's life was on the line.
It also ignores the fact his mentor was very much in a similar arrangement with Vander. Marcus is following in her footsteps, trying to hold things together. But the circumstances are different. Like you said - so easy to ignore these subtle but important notes from afar.
@@Matthew-bx5yf He wouldn't be in that arrangement with Silco if he hadn't been arrogant and rash and made a deal behind Grayson's back.
He's definitely an interesting character, he tries doing his best but falls woefully short and has been in over his head since the beginning. He has himself to blame for his end, and he also deserves some blame for everything that transpired
When Viktor disarmed the granate he didnt hesitate cause he was unsure if this was the right wire. He was unsure cause only him and Jayce are able to weaponize hextech and if the granate explode they both die.
When he turns and says: "There is always a choice." gives my chills everytime.
Also the hexcore react to organic matter and Viktor tries it with plants. They always dies because they are not resillient enough. With shimmer he made his body reslliant so he can stand the hexcore. Whatever happend to him ;-)
The thing with Marcus is that he's a single father, he wants to do the right thing, but that'll end up with him in jail, or in the ground, leaving his daughter alone.
Hard to believe a man with his status in the city doesn't get paid enough not to do this
viktor was gonna let the bomb go off, when he paused when he was cutting the wire. Also can't wait for them to see those other scenes with silco gonna be glorious.
Glorious evolution. Iykyk.
In the video game, Ekko has an ability to kind of go back in time a bit, so the scene seems to be sort of a play on that ability. Very cool design.
"Ugh it's exhausting. We get it," she says doing her damnedest to ignore all the nuances of an incredibly complex relationship unfolding between two deeply troubled characters
Marcus shouldn't be forgiven for what he has done but we should understand he is a product of his environment. Catline was able to see through the tribalism, but that is because she grew up with smart wealthy parents and she was also naturally much smarter than Marcus.
Ekko and Jinx grew up together in the Lanes, in the LoL game it is even suggested that Ekko had a crush on her.
Re: the mural
y'all have finished the season so this isn't a spoiler that the mural hasn't come back up
but I'm fully expecting someone to attack the firelight sanctuary and damage the mural. Either that's the wall they explode to get in, or it gets caught in the crossfire or something
Yeah, Marcus is a tragic character. He got in bed with Silco because he was a hot head, and then immediately got implicated in the murder of his mentor. Not much chance to escape without losing everything.
Echo beat her a**👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Why don't you think about Marcus as a character a little more. That's all I can say. Lol.. Like.. It's clear you don't like him, fair, but also it's a bit deeper than what you have him credit for.
It's always interesting seeing people blame Jayce for any of this.
4:46 "...he's been using his voice incorrectly, I feel like."
Classic. A man does the best he can in a completely fucked situation, and he still gets taken to task for it by the ladies. The dude almost single-handedly made Piltover a global power. And while he's made some blunders after the fact, big ones even, it's just kind of annoying to hear. My man Jayce is trying to walk the tightrope between progress and security, truth and politics, power and restraint.
But no, he just needs to "do better". Just because bad things come of a decision in the short term doesn't mean its a bad decision. In fact, it's often the opposite. Good decisions pay off dividends later, and bad decisions tend to pay off right away.
I'm not even defending Jayce's actions, I'm just saying I think its unfair to box him in as "the problem", when, if you recall Episode I, his fundamental value as a character is he wants to help people with magic the way it helped him. Meanwhile most of the other Councillors are only out for their own gain.
And no matter what you think about Piltover vs. Zaun, the fact remains that the lanes DO harbor criminals and actively encourage bad behavior, and they are as much to blame for their lot as Piltover is. So I dunno. Hard to blame him and the other Councillors for looking down on that sort of thing. Particularly after Jinx BOMBED Progress Day and stole HexTech components.
Then at 16:30 you say "HE'S SO EASILY MANIPULATED". Why do I get the feeling you feel this way simply because it differs from your own personal feelings on today's political climate? I don't know why the two of you are this suspicious of Mel. Yes she's manipulative, but I always read her feelings for Jayce to be complicated, if not genuine, from the get go. Even before she made her move, so to speak.
Her and Jayce have shared many intimate moments up until this point, without any hint of manipulation. Yet when she makes a valid point, you assume she's just trying to seize power. This is hilarious cuz it gets disproved the very next episode.
And Jayce is justified in taking Mel's point seriously here, manipulation or not. You both say the lanes are at a disadvantage already. But...Piltover doesn't have HexTech weapons. Right? If Zaun gets them first, that would PUT PILTOVER AT THE DISADVANTAGE, wouldn't it? So it makes sense to develop your own defenses NOW, so you're not caught with your pants down WHEN the undercity uses their new HexTech weapons.
I also have to point out that you girls go off about Jayce, while Viktor is performing technomagic without any supervision, help or even an idea of what will happen, using a HexCore that can THINK and seems to crave organic matter. And if you only knew anything about what Viktor becomes based on the game, I would hope you'd think twice about which dude is committing the greater sin here. XD
The fact that these casual moral statements were your knee-jerk reactions? I just think it says a lot about your characters, and less about Jayce's or Mel's.
TL;DR Grow up you two. XD
Careful of spoilers
Also, i might not agree with them all the time, but how long have we (viewers of Arcane) had time to process our thoughts on the story, also with the knowledge of the entire series? This is their first time reactions, and like many of the characters, are caught up in their own emotions and perspectives. Yes their perspectives are impacting their reactions, that's the whole point of the show. The cool thing about Arcane is that the more you watch, the more you can see how all the characters have their own perspectives, and it invites viewers to take a look at their own. I dont think it's helpful to demean these ladies' character because they dont have the same reaction as you
Huh???
@@silver9wolf6 It's not helpful? What am I hurting by criticizing them exactly?
Your point, while true, does nothing to dismiss what I said. I still think they're coming at the show with a weird lens and its led them to prematurely judge a character for his mistakes while completely missing everything good he's done up until this point.
You are correct that the great thing about this story is how it asks you to reflect upon your beliefs about social justice, etc. etc.
But that's not what they're doing in these moments. They aren't following the shows narrative and going "Hmm. This Jayce guy, he's really complex. He's going astray here, but this thing he did was really good." and so on.
They're just condemning him because they're following THEIR own weird narrative about right and wrong.
TL;DR They aren't engaging with the depth of the show much at all and their strong feelings about this or that come off as childish because of it.
@@silver9wolf6 they finished the series last week.
@wilder11 Hey! What I mean by not helpful is where you seem to say that their first time or knee-jerk reactions reflect poorly on their own character. And maybe I’m misinterpreting or over-reacting to what you were saying in your last paragraph and TLDR.
Arcane more than most shows nowadays requires a re-watch (or 7 XD) because there’s so much going on and we’ve gotten used to lazy writing, it’s easy on first watch to put characters into stereotypes.
I’m just saying that encouraging them to ‘take another look and see it from all the characters perspectives’ and just sharing your own perspective would probably be received better than telling them to grow up and stop being childish. That tends to make people defensive (or others defensive on their behalf, like myself) :)
I honestly agree with most of your points too. I like Mel and think she’s pretty genuine most of the time. I think people give Viktor way too much lenience in his desperation, and I think Jayce gets a lot of undeserved hate. They’re all intriguing, complex characters.
"silco and Vander are not the same thing" Honestly they are, Silco is just equal to the earlier younger version of Vander before the children changed his heart.
Im really hoping they pick up Blue eye Samurai, if they like this animation style. its a sleeper animation on Netflix. with an amazing story. its like Kill Bill Meets Afro Saurai, with a little Disney Mulan sprinkled into a very adult animation, with writers from the Marvel movie, Logan.
You two were worried about Breaking Bad/Barry messing Arianna up emotionally. Arcane is arguably on the same level emotionally.
We nearly there 😢🔥
As someone with complex PTSD, bipolar disorder, depersonalization (dissociation), and a past (thankfully long past) history of psychosis, I can say that it is VERY EASY to identify with Jinx.
Hey guys! I'm really enjoying your commentary, but I did just want to warn against the way you throw psychological terms around a little recklessly. Particularly BPD, cPTSD and DID are pretty poorly understood by most people, and misrepresenting them like this can both be offensive to people who do have these diagnoses, and may be confusing or dangerous to people who struggle with symptoms similar to what these characters are going through and might be led down the wrong path.
By all means call out individual symptoms you recognize (although those are also often misrepresented), but please leave the diagnosing to professionals. We're also taught to avoid doing things like diagnosing fictional characters for these same reasons. They're not our patients, they can't be held to human standards, and it's not appropriate to label them as such.
Anyway, I hope this is helpful, and I'm glad you're enjoying the show! It's very dear to me
Awesome reaction of my favorite Arcane!!!!!😊😊😊😊😊
Lil star wars Luke skywalker/darth vader vibes with Vi trying to save jinx...
The fact you called it so early still super impressive. Had to bite my tongue not to spoil it 😂
My favorite episode!
"Evil magician", I think I get what Maple meant. Silco appears to have a good sense of performance, purpose, and considers his audience in his actions. Magic, or illusion, is a competitive sport with people's perceptions and Silco appears to apply the same sort of premeditation when threatening people.
Yeah Jinx can change, but not back into Powder. She would become a new version of herself.
Wow, the ID hate goes so far that random rap unrelated to them gets flack for it.
These reactors miss so much.
Just like me LOL! And then I noticed more and more stuff that I missed in my first watch the more reactors I watch 😅
Comparing Imagine Dragons to King Push is a terrible injustice.
they compared JID to Pusha
the scenes are all good but ari face at the end hurts my heart, I went thru the same thing. the emotional gut punches are real, I hope you got a big hug after that 🌊🫂
The Marcus hate lmao.
I think I disagree with every discussion point you guys brought up, great video!
Gabagool
@@angeloalvarez5520 ova eer!
Lol Marcus is the most decent character in this show .. he isn't a good guy but he also isn't a bad guy and he has good intentions and he always try to do the good thing for his people , he is a good father and cares about the police officers that work under him .... i really dont get the overhating thing you got for him ... without him vi would have been litterlly dead , he protected her from slico ..... but i guess that doesn't matter because he got blood money and a character can't have flaws in your eyes.
Him saving Vi by putting her in an unnamed cell where she's beaten and possibly worse for years is not a kind act. If we assume the worst he had a teenage girl prison raped for years because he couldn't kill her. That's not kindness. The guy certainly is more egotistical and weak willed than straight up evil but what he does for Vi isn't kindness. He breaks the rules wherever it's convenient and when faced with the chance to set it right takes the easy way out.
His shortsightedness led to Grayson being killed and himself being indebted to a criminal. He acts rashly and is in way over his head, and now his only way forward is to escalate things even further. And he has himself to blame for that.
Don't get me wrong, I think he is a great character and there's definitely nuance in the reasons he has for acting a certain way. But let's not pretend like he was some kind of saint only doing the best he could in a corrupt system.
@@mormacil yes because you know that he specifically wanted her to get r*ped and beaten? When in the story does he have a chance to set things right? Besides blowing himself up there wasn't much he could do in his situation. I would argue that going to prison is definitely better than being executed, which one would you choose if it was your life?
Well, though he is not THE worst, or even THE bad guy, which nobody in the show is, the whole show is about how grey it all is.
Saying he "isn't a bad guy" is... i don't even know...crazy?
Putting innocent child in prison where she was beaten, possibly worse, for years - i would say, is alone worthy of being called, not just bad, but a complete piece of shit, that should never have any power over anybody. In this episode, he finds a thing he was looking for (the gem) and instantly just shoots a person who had it, he hesitates about Kaitlyn just because he knows her, she is topside, she was a cop and so on, otherwise he would just shoot her as well. He is a piece of shit.
A person can "care about his people", think he is doing the right thing all he wants, but if he is doing evil shit, it is still "evil".
During WW2, most german soldiers were convinced that they were doing the right thing. They were not.
@@praisethefirstborn6226 He could confess he had her imprisoned, that would've set it right. He could've quietly released her, that set it right. He could've not locked up a child without due process. He had lots of choices. The fact if he wanted or not for her to be raped is entirely irrelevant if it happens it's still a gross action by him. While intent matters a lack of intent doesn't clear you entirely.
Personally I rather die than be beaten and raped for years on end with all the trauma that comes with it. It's the more humane choice.
I was sitting on this one for weeks now.
Good Job Arianna.
As you said it I was like "how the fuck did you figured that out?"
Just wanna note at 15:45, Poor Jayce. Man got friendzoned by Cait and the only time she really mentions him is when SHE needs something.
I didn’t forget the way she threw homie’s flowers!
He got friendzoned because he's barking up the wrong tree.
Shits about to get real. Also, the show changed it’s theme song just for you guys! Also, good call Arianna. And I know Mel has her agenda, but I think she genuinely cares for Jace.
Wait, this isn't Stranger things?
:)
I just came here to see if there was an explanation for the missing 1pm Stranger Things.
I had to go to the upside world to watch it. And it was worth it.
but it IS a feel good show!
Wdym they have advantage? Zaun has shimmer. Good luck fighting against those monsters without hextech.
The whole point why Silco does this is to make life better for the people living around him. If he starts weaponizing them into monsters, the whole point goes away
@@minartson Not really. Zaun definitely did prosper thanks to shimmer. For Silco, it was a necessary sacrifice to avoid getting completely left behind by Piltover.
Jace is basically a very smart Himbo
One thing to remember about this show is that the game it's based off has 160+ playable characters. This translates to a LOT more people having 'plot armor' than you'd usually expect, both on the bad and the good side.
160+ characters in the entirety of the game, meaning that only about 140 are human beings living in a world where there's *billions* of humans. Sticking specifically to the show, that's only 10 champions out of two big cities with hundreds of people, and only 3 of them have had near-death experiences and survived. It's not plot armor, it's just a character surviving something, which is a thing that always happens with action dramas like this.
Great reaction
Man half animal is ras vastaya like elf but animal half human for region ilonia
I mean. A lot of people coming to Marcus' defense are missing the fact that he's largely responsible for his own situation. When Grayson was still Sheriff, Marcus had a huge bug up his butt and downright prejudice against the Undercity, believing in his superiority and nobility and decency while *taking literal blood money* and committing state-sanctioned violence against people for the crime of *disrespect.*
Mathematically, at the time, it would not appear he *had* a daughter. So Marcus made a deal with the devil believing himself the moral superior. It turns out the devil is the devil, and instead of doing the right thing, he just kept digging his own grave.
The easiest solution - don't betray Grayson in the first place. Your boss, who is clearly grooming you to be her replacement some day, who is carefully trying to walk you from the lofty heights of your own self-importance into the delicate, ugly truths of the real world. A person who he KNOWS is good and is trying to do the right thing. Nope. Gotta jump up that corporate ladder. Gotta get the respect he "deserves." Gotta seize those "opportunities."
Marcus is the quintessential ACAB example. He's a garbage rotter who deserves what he got and whose daughter deserved better. I'm not saying it'd be easy, but you gotta learn from those mistakes, my guy.
Marcus was right about the undercity. Jayce went shopping there one time and they followed him home to steal from him later and when they did it they blew up a building and hurt people. their crimes were literal crimes, not just "disrespect" like your insane rant proposes.
Well, that fight scene was cool. Just to say something positive about the adaptation of Ekko.
The lies...
wow whoever did that autotune on arianna, good job
After arcane you guys need to react to attack on titan, it’s amazing!!!
👍🏾
The worst reaction to Echo's arrival and his fight with Jinx I've ever seen. Unsubscribed. Bad reaction boo.
Ekko can rewind time a few seconds. It's one of his abilities. He got shot, but he turned back time and avoided it.
I know that's his in-game power, but i dont think he has that in the show (or yet if that' something they want to do). He survived getting shot because he has a chestplate on (you can see the bullet flattened on it).
Ekko uses hextech to rewind time in the game, it's not his natural power, he doesn't have his toolset yet, the stroy takes place before you see him in-game.
Th Ekko V Jinx is a breathtaking splendor within absolute perfection, not just in the visualization but also in storytelling, which is why this masterpiece show is so rightfully renowned.. sheeeeeeesh 🥹👊🏻