GM 3.6L STAGE 1 & 2 TIMING SIMPLIFIED
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- For those of you technicians out there getting confused by the instructions in the service procedures-cleanliness and pay attention to detail!
I'm gonna put this out there right now and I'm not trying to be harsh or critical for anyone who's taken this job on who is not in the professional automotive industry.
1. This job is not something that you will enjoy on the floor in your home garage; especially if it's AWD
2. I'm not making a step-by-step how to do everything, why? Because that's too time consuming and I think it is critical larger engine work like this is done by a trained, experienced, and well rounded technician. Too many chances for creating more problems if you are not experienced.
3. I will answer questions, but it's difficult for me to walk you through everything...this channel was designed and geared towards those who work on cars professionally...this procedure is not the difficult part of this job, TRUST ME.
4. GM (ACDELCO) PARTS ONLY!!! Replace all components, not some...ALL of it gets done or you're just wasting your time and will be in there again!!! Always replace the valve covers if heavy deposits! No shortcuts guy's...you do it right or like I said...you'll be doing it again!
5. Clean these engines from top to bottom using brake cleaner. Blow everything out thoroughly to include oil passages with compressed air. Clean valves using carb cleaner and compressed air. Be sure you get the inside of your oil pan too...if she's a disaster when you open her up...remove the oil pan to ensure you get it cleaned out. You're not going to hurt the engine doing this as long as you change the oil twice after you button her up. The rest will evaporate and burn out through PCV...Done hundreds of them this way and they are solid afterwards!
The other thing that other video's are failing to tell you is those phasers/actuators should be replaced everytime you do a chain job, you're just shooting yourself in the foot if you don't!
Also, the Intake PHASERS/ACTUATORS are different from one another from bank to bank, they're clocked different...also very important to know. However, the EXHAUST PHASERS/ACTUATORS are interchangable.
Use only OEM ACDelco parts, stay away from aftermarket trash, PERIOD!
If you want to try and accomplish this without doing it in two stages as some will claim is easier or possible with specific tools...well have fun, because you'll be hating life going in a second time. I am merely prewarning you...take it or leave it. YOU DO NOT NEED SPECIAL CAM HOLDING TOOLS FOR THIS JOB!!!
Many people screw this job up, because they're trying to take shortcuts-pure and simple! If you can't time this engine IAW Service Information then it's definitely beyond your skill level in numerous ways, not trying to be critical, but it's common sense. GM says this is how you time it; so why are we even debating whether or not it can be done another way. Everyone that's having trouble with it is NOT FOLLOWING PROCEEDURES, GEEEEE...I WONDER WHY 🤔?
Yes there's TSB's out there for the CKP reluctor wheel actually shifting and causing CMP/CKP correlation DTC's and the best way to rule that out is to physically check for this by removing the oil pan and measuring for it! I'll link a great page explaining how to do this below. If you're worried about that as a possibility it is only beneficial to remove oil pan regardless to clean out any deposits in the pan!
www.autoservic...
Thanks for watching and I hope you find it helpful!
For those of you technicians out there getting confused by the instructions in the service procedures-cleanliness and pay attention to detail!
I'm gonna put this out there right now and I'm not trying to be harsh or critical for anyone who's taken this job on who is not in the professional automotive industry.
1. This job is not something that you will enjoy on the floor in your home garage; especially if it's AWD
2. I'm not making a step-by-step how to do everything, why? Because that's too time consuming and I think it is critical larger engine work like this is done by a trained, experienced, and well rounded technician. Too many chances for creating more problems if you are not experienced.
3. I will answer questions, but it's difficult for me to walk you through everything...this channel was designed and geared towards those who work on cars professionally...this procedure is not the difficult part of this job, TRUST ME.
4. GM (ACDELCO) PARTS ONLY!!! Replace all components, not some...ALL of it gets done or you're just wasting your time and will be in there again!!! Always replace the valve covers if heavy deposits! No shortcuts guy's...you do it right or like I said...you'll be doing it again!
5. Clean these engines from top to bottom using brake cleaner. Blow everything out thoroughly to include oil passages with compressed air. Clean valves using carb cleaner and compressed air. Be sure you get the inside of your oil pan too...if she's a disaster when you open her up...remove the oil pan to ensure you get it cleaned out. You're not going to hurt the engine doing this as long as you change the oil twice after you button her up. The rest will evaporate and burn out through PCV...Done hundreds of them this way and they are solid afterwards!
The other thing that other video's are failing to tell you is those phasers/actuators should be replaced everytime you do a chain job, you're just shooting yourself in the foot if you don't!
Also, the Intake PHASERS/ACTUATORS are different from one another from bank to bank, they're clocked different...also very important to know. However, the EXHAUST PHASERS/ACTUATORS are interchangable.
Use only OEM ACDelco parts, stay away from aftermarket trash, PERIOD!
If you want to try and accomplish this without doing it in two stages as some will claim is easier or possible with specific tools...well have fun, because you'll be hating life going in a second time. I am merely prewarning you...take it or leave it. YOU DO NOT NEED SPECIAL CAM HOLDING TOOLS FOR THIS JOB!!!
Many people screw this job up, because they're trying to take shortcuts-pure and simple! If you can't time this engine IAW Service Information then it's definitely beyond your skill level in numerous ways, not trying to be critical, but it's common sense. GM says this is how you time it; so why are we even debating whether or not it can be done another way. Everyone that's having trouble with it is NOT FOLLOWING PROCEEDURES, GEEEEE...I WONDER WHY 🤔?
Yes there's TSB's out there for the CKP reluctor wheel actually shifting and causing CMP/CKP correlation DTC's and the best way to rule that out is to physically check for this by removing the oil pan and measuring for it! I'll link a great page explaining how to do this below. If you're worried about that as a possibility it is only beneficial to remove oil pan regardless to clean out any deposits in the pan!
www.autoserviceprofessional.com/4206/reluctor-wheel-woes
Thanks for watching and I hope you find it helpful!
@Cory A absolutely 💯 👌
!z
Where can I buy the whole rebuild overhaul kit? Engine and valves stuff? I want to rebuild everything new in it..
@@artiisa7007 Cough, rock... auto...
@@PaulysAuto Thank-you for being clear . I have been a mechanic for ,, well lets say a long dam time lol and this is the first 3.6 l timing job i have ever done . Looking at the phasers many would think the colored links would go on the triangular marks marked INT & EXH . At-least at first look that is what i thought . Without removing the phasers i took the time to clean them to investigate why each phaser had two marks . I was second guessing myself and even took out my dial indicator to measure #1 piston and valve lift to verify which mark i should be on . Had i watched your video first i would have saved time but then again i wouldn't have learned on my own . I came on RUclips to see if anyone took the time to explain the painted "L" & "R" and much to your credit you are the only one so far . Good job but speak up just a bit more lol . THANKS Brother !!
Thank you for sharing this. I have never had the chance to time one of these, there is a shop in my area , PRE CV19, that takes on all of these 3.6 jobs, they always have 1-2 of them going at the same time. The fact that you are taking the time to help and show others may give some shops more confidence on taking in these jobs. Keep up the good work!
Thanks Brian...better to do it right the first time and if this helps a tech do that...mission accomplished.
Perfect video for reference while doing the job. Nice and quick and the important details are covered
By far one of the only videos that are clear straight to the point I love your style bro keep it up
Thanks man, appreciate you.
The best video for 3.6 timing, thanks man ❤
No problem brother, thanks for the support 🙏
Just got tossed into one of these as an apprentice, thanks for the vid man
You're welcome take your time and do it right
Great video! I did mine back at the end of 2018. Wish I had this video at the time. There was plenty of info out there, and I didn't really have any trouble, but this video would have been a nice addition.
I did mine with the engine in the vehicle. Really, it wasn't a horrible job once I got all the tools lined up. It's just really time-consuming doing it in the vehicle.
Very good, thank you for the support and feedback.
I just wanted to share how simple the timing stages are. It's pretty straightforward once you've done a few of them.
Not alot of room to place that cover, but it can be done in car, not as easy to get them clean and that's critical on these.
How much did the repair end up costing you?
@@waynethomas1726 It's been a few years now, but I think it was less than $1000. If you go to my channel, I have a video up of all the tools I used. It's not a professional channel, so it's not really great, but it will give you an idea.
Thank you Pauly. Good job. Have a blessed and safe week to you and your family.
Thanks Billy appreciate your support man
KNOWLEDGEABLE Pauly Auto
Very helpful video thank you very much
God bless you and all your family around you
Pauly Auto
From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧
Thanks for being so kind and many blessings 🙌 my friend 🙏
Thanks for the video. Impressed at your speed.
Looks like you may have worked at a GM garage at some point in a previous life..😉
I appreciate your kindness and I'm thankful for you taking the time to watch.
You may very well be picking up on my energy correctly 🤣😇
Best one I’ve seen yet now I know I can do it in the car
Well, I wouldn't call it the best, but thanks for sharing, you're very kind and welcome. I am thankful that you found it helpful my friend! God bless you.
The best video for this I swear
Thanks Amanda, good to hear you found it helpful. God bless you.
Left head uses DOTS on the phasers, the right head uses ARROWS on the phasers. (just in case you didn't know this, Left and Right side of the engine is degermed by which side you would see if you were standing at the back of the motor looking forward. If you were standing on or behind the transmission looking towards the front of the motor, your left would be the left bank or head and your right would be the right bank or head.) Most "techs" would know this but the kids at the part store are NOT going to know this. People that knew that the left side of the car was the driver's side might get confused because the motors are often in sideways now. I've had many issues with getting wrong parts, like motor mounts...they'll go by front and rear sometimes or left and right on others. When the motor is sideways or "transverse" which side do THEY think is left or right? You might have to get in the habit of telling them "left is the radiator side, right is the firewall side". LOL It seems stupid and like something that shouldn't happen...but it does, often. I'm sure Pauly can attest to that.
I wanted to put up a quick comment here Pauly. The 2011 Acaidia that I did the timing on broke the chain on the right, phase two side of the timing. I thing the wear pad on the tensioner guide came off, caused an interference and the chain just snapped. FORTUNATELY....the cams were as such that no valves hit. I know it sounds like a one in a million thing but first I checked it with one of those inspection cameras on a stick thing and then I did a leak down test. To my shock and pleasant surprise, I had nearly perfect pressure. I'm about to put the new timing set on, we sent the old stuff back to see if Cloyes would warrantee it. I'm not holding my breath. But in the mean time we bought a new set and I'm putting it on now. I didn't like how "chinsy" that one was. It's captured very well on one end but the other end is held by two rather small tabs. I thought they looked a bit weak and I'm guessing the one I thought looked rather weak is the one that broke and bound up the whole system. That tab was broken off but I can't say for sure if it happened first and caused the failure or the chain broke for some other reason and that tab just got broke off in the process. I wanted to glue it or something because I didn't like how loose and crappy it looked. I'll be THOROUGHLY inspecting every piece of this kit. If something's questionable...it's going back. I don't care if the hoist is tied up an extra day or two...I'm not risking it this time. Just because it's the almighty Cloyes...doesn't mean you can't get a crappy piece!
The issue I had was not catching that the left side head uses round dots on the phasers where the right side used triangles/diamonds/arrow/pointers. Call em what you want. LOL The trouble I was having when I couldn't get it to run and had it back apart not knowing what to do...I was going by the painted marks on the new phasers. The intake cam phaser for the left hand side head was incorrectly marked, the ARROWS were painted, and I didn't catch it. It's easy enough to do guys, this is a HUGE job and it's easy to think you can trust the dealership to have things correctly marked but you CAN'T! You have to check everything. EVERYTHING! Like Pauly says, the exhaust phasers are interchangeable so you have to pay attention to the DOT vs ARROW on them. Don't go by the paint on your phaser marks. Like I said the brand new one I got from the dealership with the "L" engraved on it had the triangle mark PAINTED. I never gave it a second thought and used it. It was marked wrong. I'm very lucky it didn't cause any damage but compression and leakdown tests verified that everything was fine. But I could have saved myself a TON of work and a ton of stress if I had just paid attention to this vid that says, CLEARLY, left head uses DOTS. The right hand head uses ARROWS.
Thanks for your effort doing this vid Pauly!
No thank you for taking the time to share such a detailed comment!
Much love for those who share experiences ❤ ✨ 💛 🙏
@@PaulysAuto I just buttoned it up. Still have some wiring I can do while the cradle's down but the body will be back down in short order tomorrow. Hell, I've dropped this cradle several times now...I've gotten rather good at it! LOL I SOO hate to admit that...LOL But yea, I got really good at dropping the cradle on that piece of crap! I'm scared to death I'm going to end up being the 3.6 high feather guy LOL
I just realized I used the arrows for both heads, real bummer, engine is already back In the cat, gonna have to get it apart and redo the timing using the dots. Hopefully tying to start it with timing set to arrows on both sides didn't damage anything
@@PaulysAuto By the way, Cloyes did pay for a new timing set. Also, though I work on cars for a living, I'm not a professional. I have been working on cars since I was 10, I'm 55 now and what really helped me work like a professional without the certs, I went to school for engineering. An engineering degree, experience in that field enough years working on cars and you can do about anything. Again, where I made the mistake was I didn't notice that the dots were on one head and arrow on the other. I could have saved myself a lot of pain and suffering if I had noticed that when I took the motor apart. I had no idea it was such a complex timing set. This motor spun a bearing. I expected the timing to be the easy part! LOL...boy was I in for a surprise. Thanks again Pauly!
@@waynethomas1726 Well I'm so happy you got everything figured out, sucks that it spun a bearing. Thanks for sharing your story with me.
Excellent video man you went straight to it everything was well expanded i really appreciate that 👍. I'll definitely be looking for more of your videos.
Thanks Billy! Appreciate you 🙏
Great video easy to follow
Damn it! I wished I had found this video long ago and before the others. Great explanations!
I appreciate you taking the time to comment and watch. God bless 🙌
Well you just saved me and engine in my CTS! Thanks bud great instructional vid and again thanks for the save lol
I'm so grateful 🙏 I am so happy for that kind of feedback my friend...God Bless 🙌 you and enjoy this beautiful time of year!
This is the boat anchor cadillac uses.
I followed all the steps, my left bank and primary aligning marks are good. My left bank cam phaser marks are in the down right position at the moment so i cannot place the colored links from the chain on them! some people are saying to rotate the cams independently but i do not want to mess anything up.
You can move them, not an interference engine you'll be fine.
Terrible advice
It’s an interference engine
They are 180 out. Should make sure all marks on the cams are facing up before removing any of the chains.
@@EricA14396 Has reliefs. As long as you don't let the camshafts snap off the wrench!
I use a socket on the phaser bolt (16mm i think) and begin rotating it clockwise heavy into the spring load about 70% while I also hold it with a wrench on the camshaft hex from far back as I can get at it (20mm I think), so I have a full turn grip on it without smashing wrench or spring load passthrough snapping into valve cover etc.
So I begin the turn with a socket on the phaser bolt and then grip low on hex with a wrench then I switch torsion from the socket to the wrench hand and pass it through while catching the torsion before it snaps, and clearance for the wrench to do full swing is provided by this method.
While timing each side of this engine, you will want the camshaft flats to be facing upward aligned parallelly with its valve cover edge.
Happy playing catch the camshaft! (anyone who does this) . .
Really good explanation
Thanks for watching and have a great day 😀
I love your videos
Thanks son
Thanks for the advice much appreciated!
Thank God for you if it works on my aura 3.6 liter
Thank God for you too 🙏
I can learn from them
Yes absolutely!
When I pulled the timing cover off I didn't remove the solenoids or the sensors. I'm pretty sure the sensors are interchangeable but are the solenoids? My goal for the night is to get the chains on and the timing cover on. Maybe the oil pan on too but we'll see. So my only question is "are the solenoids location specific or can than go in any of the four holes? Thanks!
Yes all 4 solenoids are the same.
So if you roll it over will the timing Mark's ever line up again if not why
Old video, i know. But what happens when if when spinning the crank from stage 1 to stage 2 during reassembly, the valve spring tensions causes the crank/chain to rotate past the 8'oclock mark on the oil pump?
Excellent description! Are both upper chains the same length? Are all the makes on gears ? Do you drop the cradle to do the job or do it in the car? If the 3.6 I’d making noise do the chains rub on the cover or something else.
Hi man! Great video! My case is very complicated, i really need your advice.. I own Camaro 2011 V6 3.6 which throws P0008 P0016...
1. Timing Chain Replaced(Cloyes complete kit) / (done it in 1 stage, not in 2 stages, used locking tool)
2. 4 Cam Phasers Replaced(OEM)
3. 4 Selenoids Replaced(OEM)
4. 4 Cam Sensors Replaced(ACDelco)
5. Crankshaft Sensor Replaced(ACDelco)
Unfortunately nothing changed.. Still same codes. My mechanics double checked alignment... My car is running sluggish,poor.. What should we do next? Pls help
check crank reluctor, might have moved a slight amount.
Thanks for the details 👍🏻
You're welcome.
can not get my front timing cover on do i have bolts in the place ???
thanks for your help
You are most welcome my friend!
Thanks for the detailed video. How much should we expect to pay to have this job done at a shop? I have a 2010 Traverse AWD
$1800-$2500 would be about right, depending on what's all being done and shop labor rate.
Have an issue that i didn't think i would have. The crank was turned before stage 1 could be put on. How can you figure that out. Someone told me that you cant just line up the dots on the crank after that has been turned because its possible to be 180 degrees out. How do I determine it? How to set the crank?
Always remember number 1
Tdc
start fresh and execute
Thanks
have a question
At the end of the video you said the timing marks won’t line up again.
I’m asking because I have a no start issue before and after chain install. So now I’m pulling valve covers off to see if my marks at least line up on the visible cam phasers.
Trying not to Pull the timing Chain cover off.
Just trying to check the markings on the cam phasers. I would like to think I can roll the engine over enough for bank one to see the phaser marks and links lineup. And then of course rotate the engine a quarter turn or so To see bank 2 phasers lineup chain links.
Even though my original rollover but no start situation cause me to replace chain and found that the chain guide were gone But chain was still intact, my biggest mystery is that it could be something else why the engine will roll over but not start.
So I simply am checking my work on the chain without taking the chain cover off.
Will this test work by what I’m trying to do or do you have a recommendation on my no start issue.
Yeah it's a one time deal unfortunately I apologize for the late response. Once you rotate from the 1st phase they won't lineup again.
Have you ever replaced an oil pump on this engine? I'm trying to figure out if I need some sort of o-ring or sealant where the back of the pump contacts the front of the engine. There seems to be some sort of round groove around the hole. Thanks!
Sorry for the late reply there's no gasket It's a machined surface fit, I usually apply a light coat of anerobic sealer to the block ports and it works good, but only use a small amount.... It's something I've always done on every make and model... Must be working cause I haven't seen um back.
Doing this timing job also. What i found crazy is that all the rocker arms on the intakes were just laying there as well as a couple lifters. I bought new rockers since most were broke but they are loose compared to the exhaust rockers. What causes this? Is it bad lifters or will they pressurize when the oil pump starts running again? Thanks for the video it has been a big help and any info on this.
I'd suspect lifter issues...yes.
Which way do you turn the motor over for the second part of the timing? Anti clockwise or clockwise to the second mark
Clockwise from stage one
Thank you for the video! 3 times later I’m still getting a P0019. All new parts including phasers☹️. Any suggestions?
Vid is good to go. But not totally clear..Which cyl is tdc and on which stroke when you line up stage one timing marks on crank sprocket (presume crank sprocket could be lined up but not on correct stroke).
Re-watching vid maybe I missed something. Again the vid is good to go. Thanks for posting.
If you're overthinking you're already lost
My garage told me this engine has 2 reluctor Wheels and they think one wheel has slipped causing a timing issue on the left Bank and said they have to remove my engine to investigate 🙄
It's possible, but most of those issues were resolved by warranty work early on on the older platforms. A Cam/Crank Waveform Analysis with a lab-scope would be the best way to know before pulling the engine out.
Melling gears video uses stage 1 only for taking apart and putting it back thoughts?
I don't know, never strayed from doing it according to Service Information to be honest. I figure why reinvent the wheel 🤔...I've never done mine twice, so I'll stick to what factory published and keep it simple.
I got a question does the #1 piston need to be top dead center on phase 1? My friend is rebuilding his 3.6 and wanted to know. Thank you
I'm in stage one timing. Unfortunately the crank skipped a bunch of teeth turning counterclockwise to get from stage 2 to stage 1. In stage 1 timing can you turn left bank cams counterclockwise without chain on to get back on time without hitting pistons? The 1 and 3 cylinders are down but number 2 is up almost all the way in stage 1 btw. I have the 3.0 LF1 V6 in equinox, is this interference or non interference? Could I have bent a valve hand cranking cams or no?
It's not an interference engine. You shouldn't need to turn crank counterclockwise to get to stage 2.
Great video! I have 2011 buick lacrosse 3.6L I was driving 5 mph and then the engine shut-off , it's sound like starter I was trying to turn the engine with the ratchet on camshaft pulled and won't turned, I believe the engine locked or seized, do you think could be timing chain broken?
You need to try turning the crank
Any tips for a correlation codes on bank 2? Getting dtcs for both intake and exhaust on bank 2. All new OEM components, followed procedure, and by far the cleanest high mileage engine I've seen.
I also have the cheap autozone ones they arent marked much.
Great video! The only question I have is, does any one cylinder have to be at tdc or doesn't it matter? Is it still timed correctly no matter where cylinder 1 is in the stroke?
I usually start tear down with number 1 on the TDC Exhaust stroke, but no it doesn't matter, the two stage timing is straightforward and double check your marks...this video hits all the crucial points in a very short time, but that's because it's not as complicated as it seems 😉
Read my description and pay attention to details and you'll be good to go.
I can only do so much on this platform my friend.
Great vid. One of the best I've watched. Got one on the lift now, spun a #6 rod bearing BUT, it always made a clattering sound even when it was warn and restarted. I now know it's probably one or more of the phasers. But, I don't really know how to service them. I know you can't do a vid just for me but maybe a quick explanation of why they would clatter, something about the pin is supposed to lock at zero oil pressure but in this case at least one does not. Just buy new pins? Is there a kit? If so I'm finding squat about on FB. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I didn't read your description where it says to always change the phasers. Bummer, they're pretty spendy and many claim they rarely go. Maybe the "many" are ones complaining about having had to do the job 3 and even 4 times! I couldn't believe the guy who said he was doing it the fourth time! WOW
@@waynethomas1726 😁
So I'm doing this on my car and I set my timing on the passenger side(right side) already but I ran into an issue where I can't set my timing on the drivers side(left side) cause both cams are off somehow and I can't get either of them TDC any advise on how I can get them in the correct position to be turned to TDC?
Hi , couple of questions if u dont mind, when u took the old chains off what stage were u at,and what chain came off first. when u put the last chain on u had to rotate ur cams to flats up im assuming was it clock wise or anty clock wise
If you're overthinking, you already lost
So if this engine were to jump time would it not be worth fixing? Or would a new timing kit fix it? Guess I'm asking is this engine an interference engine or not. This video helped me slot with wanting to take on the job but I'm wondering if its worth it?
It's not an interference engine.
Best advice is to tear out cams and perform a leak down test on all six. You will then be able to determine if you have severe valve seating issues or excessive leak down via rings etc.
Check lifters and mic out cam lobes upon removal.
I have never seen a 3.6L jump time, not that it can't happen. Now I've certainly seen the chains stretch or have an actuator problem.
However, I have seen people incorrectly set timing by a tooth on the RH bank usually exhaust cam; in which it'll just have poor performance and a few correlation DTC's.
Is it worth it? Well how do you really know the condition of an engine without tearing it apart...answer you don't! You can run an in cylinder waveform to gauge it, but you can't be 100% without physically checking components upon removal.
😁😄
How many miles on the one you are working on? If you are at 200k or so you may need to consider a valve job regardless. It really depends on how much leak down you're getting, how clean the seats are, and how much you ran induction services throughout the entire 200K? Is this it's first set of chains?
Hopefully answered it for you?
Thanks for the info. I do have a question though. So I turned the crank to set on mark and noticed the right intake cam is popping. I don’t really know how those phasers work. Would my phaser be bad?
It shouldn’t pop. When you took off the chains did you follow the removal procedure?
Look at cloyes timing chains website. They have a very good 8 minute video on how to remove and replace the chains.
@@myboy051 i haven’t taken chains off yet. Been trying find info on why it’s doing that.
@@myboy051 thanks It’ll check that out.
@@myboy051 thanks for your time and feedback on this 👍
I'm doing the same job at home and noticed the camshaft brackets on the Right bank fit really snug is that expected? Also, phase one will put cylinder one at top dead center correct?
CAM Brackets?
Why are we using cam brackets?
No need for cam brackets on this job.
Sorry I meant camshaft caps
Isn't the last chain suppose to line up right where the window is??? Mellings chain guy puts his at the window where your first sat before you changed timing
I'm confident in my video...following service procedure here, done MANY MANY chain jobs on GM 3.6L. I am doing the two stage timing IAW SI.
I apologize, but I just can't tell you about aftermarket parts and their recommended procedures, because I have never used them for this job. I only use ACDELCO parts to prevent the possibility of not getting updated parts from the manufacturer.
just did mine on a equinox and the timing cover leaks i used red rtv any recomendations for sealant
ACDELCO
The engine you could fix it
Yes Garrett, it's fixed 😂👍 love you young man! (This is my son commenting on his mother's phone FYI viewers).
Do u mnow what sensor right bellow crank pully
hey mate I have an issue where I have changed phasers an tensioners an when I roll the engine the actuators move an or jump the timing, engine rolls over smooth though Ive fixed this a couple times an can't seem to figure it out as I'm not worried about the timing marks only that the cams dont follow north to south as they go pearshape, I don't think it's a reluctor issue though as I was driving the car lastweek fine til I pulled it apart an my issues that the cam phasers roll even new ones.
Pauly, if you remove the cam phaser from the camshaft, how do they line up before you tighten them back on? Does that pin on the back sit within a hole on the cam?
yes you'll see it
@@PaulysAuto Thanks. I just subscribed!
@@chrisstromberg6527 I appreciate your support 🙏
Hey buddy
Does this work with the 3.0l sidi motor as well?
You know that's a good question 🤔
I would imagine so, haven't ever done chains on the 3.0L TBH.
I would need to look this up to be sure.
Yes, it should have the dot on each side of the crank, indicating that it is 2 stage timing.
Also be sure to clean the valves properly (however you can without using additive into the gas tank.
In a sidi system, the valves don't get cleaned by the gas at all, they get infested with carbon every 20-30k miles.
So the best way to clean them is to open up the motor and clean them manually.
I'm not a fan of Direct injection. Port injection is best.
@@DevJB thank you
I’m on it now
Do them timing chain s mess up dat often cause its alot videos on them
Very common to have chain stretch issues.
Dumb question so jus line up timing marks on crank shaft number 1 doesn't have to be tdc
Start by putting number 1 at TDC on it's exhaust stroke, your stage 1 mark should be aligned accordingly on the crank, remove all the old chains, then the bank 1 cams are likely to roll on you a bit, but it's ok, because you will be moving them a bit once bank 2 secondary and the primary chains are set, then you'll roll crank to stage 2 mark and will be setting the bank 1 secondary.
The marks are not gonna lineup anymore once you roll it over to stage 2 mark on bank 2 secondary and your primary.
is that a genuine gm chain? i ordered one from amazon that is supposed to be genuine gm. the box had been opened so i am questioning it. it was marked made in Slovakia. my links colors look identical to yours. also the little white tag on the pull pins were marked made in Slovakia. is that correct for genuine gm?
Nothing but... If it's not from a GM approved dealer I'd be in question.
Yeah dont always believe the marks. I took mine apart and got all my marks lined up before disassembly except the crank was off one tooth. The dealer and cloyes all said it must have skipped a tooth. I disagreed cuz top dead was not where all the marks lined up. But they insisted. I knew I should have went with my gut feeling but instead listened to the pros. Now the car stumbles at idle and levels out after the phasers engage. It's not enough to bend valves so I've been running until I have time to do all over again.
I'm not following, I unfortunately have never experienced this. It's all in the video straight up. Follow the description. I'm 100 percent confident in that.
@@PaulysAuto it must be an oddity. I could send a pic if you have an email to share. Either way great video thanks for sharing!
@@briannorton1301 I feel bad for you, I know how frustrating it can be to do all that work and then the car says "no I'm not playing nice today".
I really wish I could help you out, but it's tougb to do on social media at times you know?
I can't find any information on my 2013 3.6l 323hp V6 Camaro LT. The timing on mine goes smoothly on the left as yours does in the video, but when I get to the right side to install chain with timing marks the lobs on my cam shafts are not the same as you show in the video. I put the motor back together and it doesn't run properly. I'm back to the same spot on timing again and having the same issue with the cam lob position not where you show in the video. Is there something different about the 2013 Camaro? Any input or info on my model would be greatly appreciated.
‼️Guys I can really use some help here!!!! I accidentally turned the crank without the chains now I don't know where the Piston or the position should be for stage 1 timing🙏🏼??🙏🏼
Roll your cams over to where you need them; then set the crank to stage 1 mark, this engine is not interference.
@@PaulysAuto ,, Mr Paul I'm still having a little bit of chain slack on bank 1 after replacing the tensioners with GM tensioners is that normal for Bank 1??
@@zikiflx yes they'll pump up with oil pressure once it's running.
@@PaulysAuto 👍 thanks a lot,, I'm hoping and crossing my fingers that this engine will run good after I close it up and I will make sure to send you a donation for taking the time and respond to me👍👍
@@zikiflx Keep your money right now times are tight and you need to keep your money I'm OK ok I'm just glad you were able to figure it out.
Pauly.... Should one consider changing the oil pump on a 2011, ~140k mile Traverse when doing a timing chain job like this, or it is not needed? Thanks.
Do you have oil delivery problems?
Do you have any evidence that it wasn't producing adequate oil pressure?
@@PaulysAuto Hello :) . No, I don't think it does, but we haven't opened the engine yet. I am in the process of buying timing chain parts, and was curious if you as a routine change the oil pump too when doing this job.
@@juanee2 no I don't typically.
@@PaulysAuto Ok, thank you for your reply and video, much appreciated. 😊
Mine lined up with everything, but when I turn the engine over the cam sprocket makes a loud clicking sound, is this because of the variable timing ?
Did you replace the cam phasers?
@@waynethomas1726 Turns out it was the cam phasers that were shot, I put everything back together and it started misfiring on bank 1, took everything apart, and the cam phaser fucked, and it jumped a tooth. Put 4 new ones and shes all good now 🙃
Actually you can do both sides in stage 1
Seems like everyone who attempts this seems to have problems, but hey, if you can do it then get it done... I don't know why, but mine always run right when they're done... the first time ofcourse, but thanks for watching!
What do you do if your cam phasers don’t line up correctly with the stage timing?
Roll them over and line them up.
Hi Pauly, mate im going around circles! this is the forth time i strip the engine and put it back together! I have followed every step got to do with the timing chains and after installing the new chains to the marks and after doing some revolutions I get slack in the primary chain! Any ideas what am I doing wrong? the car starts fine, rattles on cold start and the the rattle fades when the car starts to warm up. No fault codes though.
Are you sure it's the chains that are rattling? How's your oil pressure? It's possible that the pump isn't producing enough pressure to pump up the tensioners.
@@PaulysAuto first of all I would like to thank you for the quick reply!
Secondly, earlier today, i redone the chains again and i also installed brandnew oil pump. I have installed all three chains to marks and all is good and they were tight as! BUT when i rotate the crank for few revolutions the primary chain has some slack at the top? is that normal?
@@Mon-Aro That's perfectly normal That slack will get taken up once the oil pressure comes up and the tensioners are pumped up
Hi i removed my rockers covers and had a quick look ,i then decided to rotate the engine for the timing marks but the i went anty clock wise and came to a stop ,i then checked the rockers and noticed right side last rocker on inlet side had come off , im not sure weather i caused the issue or it was there ,my code was p0008, if i did cause it how do i fix it ?looking forward to ur reply .
Good job 👍👍
Thank you I'm glad you enjoyed it hoped that it helped
@@PaulysAuto yes it did
@@jfromthedesert9847 Excellent!
Thank you so much
You're welcome 😊
I was really surprised to find a tightening sequence that said to torque them in sequence to 14 lb/ft and then an additional 60%. You may have a torquewrench that does both but mine doesn't. wouldn't it make more sense to use a torque spec only on something like that? What do you do? Thanks
I use my Snap-On digital torque angle torque wrench.
You could always buy a cheap digital torque angle attachment for a ratchet.
@@PaulysAuto That's what I have. I have a digital, click and bar type torque wrenches and one of those inexpensive angle finders that I use on a breaker bar or ratchet. He, I have that eco-tec and will have to do a timing set on it soon. Do you have a vid for doing them? If not maybe some pointers such as if any special tools are required or how you can get away without one etc. I got that 3.6 back together and the starter wouldn't engage. I'm not sure how but a common ground that ties in with the transmission control module either lost it's ground or just needed a better one. I had to break down and buy the damn manual for the diagram. Man did that pizz me off! But it did help me to get the starter working. It doesn't want to start though. It's nearly fires up. In fact the last time I tried it was nearly running before the battery ran down. As soon as I can get that one running and out of the shop I've got to put the chain on that e tec and put the motor in a Saturn for a neighbor. So any tips would be more than welcome. Your vid really helped me understand the timing setup on that motor and I'm sure it helped many more. If there's any way I can I'll pass it and any others you have around to those that need it.
Hi, can ask what stage timing , 5, or 9.were u in before removing chains on right side also were u tdc before removing r s chains when u went to left side did u rotate the crank if so to what stage timing, after u replaced the chainns in stage 1 did u rotate the crank to stage 2 and what timming mark was it 5,or 9 haope u with me .cheers
Great video, with more detail than other you tube vid. I'm getting ready to do this job, I want to replace my cam phasers as long as I'm there do you have any video of replacing them?
No, it's straight forward, you will need to hold the cam with wrench and torque them with a torque wrench ofcourse.
I apologize for late response, RUclips didn't notify me of your comment till today???
Question no this video is a little old now
Had a cheap eBay timing chain kit go bad on an 07 Arcadia so going with the cloyes as a replacement after breaking the motor down in vehicle when the evergreen brand name eBay timing kit tensioner failed
It jumped time on the front Bank then the intake valves and the worst part is it broke three of the cam caps my question is you can get the valves and all the other parts but is the cylinder head cam cap can you get that separately or do you have to get an entire new cylinder head.
It sucks because I should have inspected the vehicle first after already ordering the new timing chain kit new camshafts and new GM phasers just to be wondering now if the head is toast.
If I were questioning the cylinder head I'd have a reputable machine shop inspect it prior to putting it back together. Better to know 100% before spending time and money on her again.
That really sucks, I'm sorry to hear all of this!
Let us know what you find out ok?
As far as getting the cam caps, I don't know, they might only come with the head...maybe talk to a good GM parts guy and see.
@@PaulysAuto
Thanks for fast reply
Hard to get any dealer info on the weekend
But I'll definitely make some calls tomorrow into some local machine shops to see if the cam caps can be purchased separately
Or if their machines specifically to each individual head when they're cast at the factory.
Hopefully I'll find out tomorrow and post a reply. And lesson learned to everybody else watching this video avoid cheap eBay Chinese crap parts job will take three times as long now cuz you doing the repair twice and initially the cylinder heads were fine and I had no bent valves.
If I just would have bought the Cloyes kit to begin with I won't be in this boat now needing valves had gaskets and a possible head just to save a few hundred bucks.
@@aaronwildman3652 yessir
Should cylinder 1 be top dead when setting stage 1 or 2 ?
I set it to TDC before stage 1 and move cams as needed during stage 2...it is not an interference engine so no worries there 😉
I need help. I assembled the engine block and timing and everything on an engine stand and somehow one of the cams is off by a tooth. I couldn't get it to start even though it would come damn close to running on it's own. So I scanned for trouble codes and it said one cam on one bank was too far advanced. I was so careful to make sure the links were in the correct location before I assembled it I know for a fact the timing was correct at that point. Now it's all back in the in the car and I'm going to have to attempt to fix it in vehicle this time. I'm a little worried though, if I somehow ended up a tooth off while having the motor on a stand right in front of my face I'm concerned it'll be even easier to mess up trying to do it in the car. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. To refresh, everything is new except for the 4 solenoids. New phasers, timing set....everything else was new. Is it possible that the jump could be related to the solenoids?
Where can I buy parts for 2010 Chevy traverse I’m rebuilding the engine
GM parts counter.
Hey paul when u removed the stage 2 chain what timing mark were u set at, 5,or 8, im having alot off trouble following the procedure re timing procedure, as everyone leaves bits out or does it differently. i found ur quick giude in reply to a comment but there u refer them as banks can u clarify please, would be apriciated
Bank 1 is your right bank...Bank 2 is your left bank. Remember that left and right as if your sitting behind the engine driving it. So when you're looking at it from the front...as I am in the video...the left Bank (Bank 2) is going to be on your right.
If you set the crank sprocket to stage 1 timing mark before removing all the chains etc, you'll be good to go, remember it's not an interference engine, so as long as you follow the video and set the timing correctly in both stages, you will be fine.
@@PaulysAuto stage 1 timing is 9 oclock or 5 oclock a
@@poogzie stage 1 is 5 o'clock on Crank on the dot on oil pump
In Stage 1 timing and 2 does it matter were the piston is on number 1 tdc.
Can you please tell me the specs torque for front cover and valve covers? Thank you 🙏
Paul, when I roll the engine over like you say to make sure the chain is seated. Is the popping noise from the tensioner and cam phaser normal for this process.
If you're talking about the tensioner resetting due to no oil pressure then yes, as long as you follow the procedure to the letter you have nothing to worry about 😉 watch it again and make sure, but if you are paying attention then you will know without question you're on point. Question is, did you read my description?
@@PaulysAuto Yes, did Paul thanks for the quick reply. I know you say only use AC Delco. What's your take on the Cloyes timing kit? I'm just curious.
@@xiongfamily5358 never used their product, but when I do big jobs like this, I don't like to worry. If the manufacturer updates a part, remember that aftermarket takes alot longer to update accordingly 😉
They all ways complain about never getting timing marks to line up again try 114 turns and back to marks again.
🤣 awesome 👌
Hi paul i got a mechanic to do it but he set everything at 9 0clock he stated thats how he does them ,he put them on i put the car together he took a fuse or relay out and jumped it to turn it with out it firing up once he fired the motor up it started to misfire then multiple misfires also a knocking noise in the manifold or appear to be the manifold can u help .
Hi paul my mechanic timed my chains at 9 0clock he said would be fine now i have multiple misfires code p0300 he still insists the timing is fine can u advise would be appreciated.
Hi which is bank 1 and ban2? in australia if ur standing in front of the vehicle left side is bank 1 stage 2 timming?
ASE tech says to never disturb the bolts on the oil pump...just wondering if you have not heard of that or do you feel this is bogus advice?
What does "ASE Tech" say will happen? I guess I'm failing to understand the question. They're not torque to yield bolts? Furthermore, how does the oil pump seal on this platform again...? Well, considering it's a machined surface to the block...so if "ASE Tech" is concerned about oil pressure issues, why not remove it and inspect it for scoring? And if no issues, then re-install with a fine coat of anaerobic sealer on the machined surfaces and torque it down to spec? What's the logic here?
Did "ASE Tech" have a reason to believe there was an oil pressure issue prior to selling the job?
@@PaulysAuto the logic is that the oil pump manufacturers say to not disturb those bolts to avoid messing with the tolerances and seal on the oil pump. Just wanted to share that with you...not trying to criticize just share what i am learning.
@@PaulysAuto No he was just sharing what oil pump reps had told him. Do not disturb the bolts on the oil pump. Just slide the new guide unto the old bracket...kinda weird hey as the kits give you the new bracket for the oil pump.
This "ASE Tech" thinks it's fascinating how much bogus advice is out there 😉
Is the stage 2 required ? I did it with the cam locks. Car doesnt run rough anymore but im still getting the timing codes and now my oil filter keeps collapsing and i lose oil pressure after like 50 miles of driving
Hello, so I’m in the process of changing timing chains on this specific engine. My driver side chain & crankshaft chains were so loose when I went to align the crank to stage one the chains both slipped. My question is what position do my cams need to be in before I start the timing chain process? O & the car just ran great just had a very slight barely noticeable rough idle & a P0008.
Thank you, Dave
As long as those marks lineup with the chain accordingly...you'll be good to go...it's not an interference motor so you can not screw it up.
When you start at bank 2 secondary chain, your bank 2 camshaft flats should be parallelly level with the valve cover edge.
Then you set the b2 chain, then primary chain.. then you rotate the crank bolt clockwise very slowly without passing the bank 1 dot. Matching up the crank dot with bank 1 dot. Then you make sure your B1 camshaft flats are parallelly level with the b1 valve cover edge or very close)
Then you set B1 chain while also you may need the assistance of a wrench on the camshaft hex neck per B1 camshaft while you tweak or slightly need to move the phaser to grip the chain where you need it.
You will want new tensioners, chains and crank gear plus crank bolt at bare minimal in any timing chain job on any Alloytec.
Spin the 2 camshaft intermediate idler gears which are 43ft lbs, if they feel gritty resistance then replace them both with new bolt included.
If the guides are smooth and not worn or cracked, no need.. but make sure they are 17 to 18 ft lbs. While in there, clean gasket crap really good with plastic razor blades and brake clean on rag with gloves.. . And inspect\clean and replace gasket from water pump. If the blades are broken or there is a crack, replace it while you're in there, regardless, silicone gasket maker product ends up falling into the water pump while you scrape and brake clean the timing cover and its glue channels. So it's best to just separate it before you clean it. Any questions about Alloytec just ask..
@@PaulysAuto not meaning to bug i have a 3.6 07 Saturn aura xr and on one cam all the rockers came off what could cause that ?
@@brittanyncharles20 weak valve springs. Did you remove the cams and inspect them for damage? You'll want to measure your lobes and journals using a micrometer and check to see if you have uneven wear and see if they are out of specification.
@@DevJB Water pump always gets done when I do chains, pan comes down too. If she's on the floor I'm putting it back to new. I have laid this out in description. Timing this engine is the easy part.
In my case, nothing on my car is lined up, due to me taking heads off and having them ported and a whole lot of other work, only thing left to do is set timing up to have my car back up and running. Now when setting stage one timing, do I automatically just turn the crank to stage one timing or do I keep turning it to stage 1 timing til piston is at TDC? Before installing my chains and moving on to stage 2. Please lmk ASAP :)
Marks are what matter 😉 set her and rotate CAM's as needed.
@@PaulysAuto and the engine is non interference correct?
@@damiancastro9370 yessir
@@PaulysAuto thanks for the help!!!🙏🏽
@@damiancastro9370 No problem
What happens if I accidentally change the Left intake actuator for the Right Intake actuator?
nothing same
EXHAUST LIKE I SAID
but but this video is Old old
newer 3.6L RPO'S I really don't know
I don't do chain jobs anymore on 15 and newer...GM seems to have resolved the issue TBH
I have searched and can't find a reason for the 2 stage timing? The links line up whether or not you rotate the crank to the 2nd stage or not. What is the purpose of rotating the crank just to install the 3rd chain?
During your search did you look in Service Information?
@@PaulysAuto I don’t believe so. I have seen some explanations from Holden saying they only use the stage 2 and skip the stage 1. I’d like to understand what the purpose is of this timing method is.
Noway im put those aftermarket camphaser on my engine. No but thanks btw
Is it normal for one of the cam gear to come loose? If so can it still be re timed with new chain kit?
You changed the whole slide on the oil pump?? Does that not damage the oil pump removing that slide bracket??
No.
i did mine myself . my acadia ran like a swiss watch for about a year.... now it does'nt want to run..
i got no idea why....................
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