Well, some channels get a little luck, and the algorithm promotes them at the right time, and things take off from there. Lots of things factor into a successful channel, in my opinion.
The number of subscribers on RUclips isn't the main indicator of the success of a channel. The main indicators are views and how long a person watched a video. You can make the best 15 minute video on youtube but if the average watch time is 3 minutes youtube will probably just pass you by... It's sad but true.
@@generaljeanmoreau6853 There are cuts, but more to tidy things up, I suspect. Certainly talks off the top of his head, showing that he knows his stuff.
@@horseradishpower9947 very true. So it makes me frustrated that someone who really knows his stuff has less of a following than a hipster with a good media presence 😤
On a side note, I love that Ian Holm has played both Bilbo and Frodo in the past. He played Frodo in the BBC radio adaptation and he played Bilbo in LOTR obviously
I actually didn’t mind the problems as much the first time I saw it, mainly because I was happy to see them include things I didn’t e left like the Stone Giants.
It's nice to see someone take on CinemaSins. They always drove me insane with their "sins". Not to mention people always being "it's comedy you can't take it seriously" but that is one of the weakest arguments surrounding it.
I feel like CinemaSins just couldn't find much to talk about and thought he'd try to be funny instead just for the sake of having a video. Also, don't know if it was intentional but the part where you say "...don't even seem to take the complaint in a logical direction." it's followed by Saruman saying "Because there is none!"
15:41 I think CinemaSins is just pointing out that the Great Goblin's tune is that of the children's nursery rhyme "Nick-Nack Paddywhack, give a dog a bone, this old man came rolling home" or thereabouts.
At this point, criticism from people who actually get movies is silly. The guy isn't a film student. He is a comedy clicky fast editing dude at this point.
@@teddtbhoy he’s equally as bad. Where one is the need for criticism to the point of rarely getting any right the other is the need for praise to the point of praising what shouldn’t be praised
Jackson actually says that STING was the only one they wanted to glow so it would have center stage. The others glow but we do it as the audience see it so we aren't distracted... Many things were changed , either added for benefit or clarification and to tie in movies.
Even has a fan of J.R.R. Tolkien I can get enjoyment out of the hobbit trilogy because I do look at it as Peter Jackson did not want to direct it but he stepped in to direct it after Guillermo Del Toro had to leave the project I’ll look at it as it could’ve been worse
Saruman does smoke, Merry and Pippin find his personal stash in Isengard. I do not recall if it is in the movie however, and definetly not in the Hobbit.
Yeah, the thing is he tries to keep it a secret because he initially made fun of Gandalf for it but then later tried it and liked it, and didn’t want Gandalf to be like “I told ya it was good” lol
Great debunking, as always. 20:30 Honestly the thing with "Oh, the eagle again!" makes me a bit mad. Because if cinemasins referenced the book, then they should have known why the eagles were there and why they attacked the Goblins and Wolves.
@@MagusMarquillin That's true. But I personally think that most of their take downs are just no funny... Because they are often outstretched, and rely too much on a grumpy tone that would hopefully bring the audience to an agreement with them.
@@squashedeyeball Agreed, it just feels hipster to me, if not misanthropic. I prefer CinemaWins; after then fun he actually weighs the pros and cons a bit so it feels like a fair review, with a lot of positivity thrown in.
I think the rock does look like a bear, and is a reference to the Carrock (Beorn’s Rock) from the book. Even though I don’t think it looks that way in the book.
There's plenty to hate about and to point out as flaws of The Hobbit trilogy, but CinemaSins 100% just makes clickbait BS and sinned these movies without really watching them.
Yeah, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. They DO take place in the same world after all, and a sense of continuity is an important part of these stories!
Another reason why the eagles did not fly the group closer to the mountain is the fact well, there is a dragon inside there that could smell the eagles. And that well the eagles don't want to go near a dragon.
Unpopular opinion but I actually like the Hobbit movies, not as much as I like LORT but I do like them. I don't mind all of Balin's exposition stories I don't get bored during them and gives you a bit of back story and introduction to Azog instead of just "ok he's here now", and I don't mind exposition as a whole cus u need to know what's goin on in a movie and I know there's the whole "show don't tell" thing but sometimes that's not always the best option cus of run time and other things. I don't mind that some of the dwarves were made to look more "normal" than the others, just shows that not all dwarves are the same and I don't even mind the inclusion of Taurial (if that's how you spell her name) and the little love story between her and Kili it didn't impact the story that much, it didn't take away from the main focus of the movie that much and when you learn about the tension between elves and dwarves it kinda gives that Romeo and Juliette feeling which I don't mind either lol. The only problem I had with the movies is that fact that they killed off Smaug far to quickly. but this is all just my opinion. Sorry for the rant and misspelling lol. Cool vid tho
I recently re watched The Hobbit trilogy and found it quite bearable, which was a pleasant - unexpected - surprise. I think Jackson has fixed up the barrels-down-the-river scene so that it does not look so fake, and is now rather exciting; also he has dealt with other squeamish aspects of the film..... or is it just that I am getting senile in my old age :-) Looking forward to watching the extended "extended" 4K versions.
I'm glad you enjoyed the movies, but the only time I saw the movies was when they were in theatres. As a big fan of Middle Earth, I thought the movies did not come close to doing the books justice in my opinion. There was no reason to completely change the storyline with Azog surviving, adding in the weird romantic subplot between Fili/Kili and an elf, the spiders in Mirkwood were way too big, the black arrows were shot out of scorpion ballistas instead of a handheld bow, and the battle scenes were incredibly silly. By the Battle of Five Armies, I was wondering if I was watching the right movie, as it veered so far from the book.
About the fighting scenes where goblins go down in one casual backhand hit while Thorin is only stunned by eating a full frontal giant mace… If you’re playing roleplaying games, there are two kinds of rules systems. One kind where humans have about 8-20 hit points, that never change. In that kind of game Aragorn wouldn’t have more than that. Isildur and Glorfindel would still be at 21. And you only raise the skills you practice. Getting endgame weapon skills take years of dedicated hard work, as well as practical experience. And the other kind is the one with levels, where noobie low lvl chars have 6-12 HP, and high level characters with obscene stats have hundreds of hit points. No secret which kind Peter Jackson is playing here. But I’d argue that reading the books it sure as hell looks like characters are gaining levels when they do cool stuff. Like travel with wizards and being present (in the party) at momentuous events. Pippin and Merry come back from their adventures and are able to treat big bad robber militia guys as one-hit mooks. And I know they grew a couple of inches, but if this world was strictly pig farming realistic, they would still be about half as strong and also probably have less experience with weapons than the assorted bandits and mercs that control the Shire. I agree that a lot of the fighting scenes in the Hobbit films are over the top and silly (and mostly child friendly). It’s clearly by design. I don’t really agree with that choice, but then again, my world building preferences are a lot more gritty and pseudo-realistic than even Tolkiens. All I’m saying is that in order to stay true to the books, the way they are written, it is completely reasonable to have protagonists who are epic and larger-than-life. I think that the LotR films do a better job of it than the Hobbit films. But that’s not even an opinion, it’s more like a statement of my personal taste.
Lmfao I didn’t even notice the mistake when he said and even when I read your comment the first time! I had to re read it 3 times to realize the mix up lmao
I never understood why they ever could be any fun, its not funny or interesting if 90% of your criticism is needless hater nitpick .... for me they are the perfect example of retarded people thinking they are the smarter kid in the classroom lol, CinemaWins is worth following though.
If in case eagles took dwarves to erebor ,i'm pretty sure all of them would easily be noticed by dragon and get cooked as in the end movies shows how smaug notice the tiny little bird on the mountain.
More or less agreed. I could have done without the Azog subplot & Goblin-town fightscene, too. A couple of very minor nitpicks: 1.) Hobbits are human, that is they are neither Elves, Dwarves nor Orcs. "It is plain indeed that in spite of later estrangement Hobbits are relatives of ours: far nearer to us than Elves, or even than Dwarves. Of old they spoke the languages of Men, after their own fashion, and liked and disliked much the same things as Men did." Also, whereas all of the other races get their creation story in Silmarillion, Hobbits do not. I am pretty sure it is mentioned somewhere explicitly that they are an offshoot of Men, but I couldn't find the reference after a cursory search. Anyway, it does seem that the Hobbit kids do like very much the similar things that humans do, both in the books and in the movies, even if the adult hobbits tend to be more staid and 'respectable'. 2.) Wizards and pipeweed: As you no doubt know, Saruman does get into the habit of pipeweed by the War of the Ring. In The Unfinished Tales: "Saruman had long taken an interest in the Shire - because Gandalf did, and be was suspicious of him; and because (again in secret imitation of Gandalf) he had taken to the "Halflings' leaf," and needed supplies, but in pride (having once scoffed at Gandalf's use of the weed) kept this as secret as he could." But yes, I agree both with the criticism that pipeweed would be MJ (it clearly isn't, despite how much of a joke it is and has been for decades), and they also totally ignore that if that would be all there is to it, we would see a whole host of halfling and dwarven wizards, since they smoke pipe-weed. Of course, in Middle-earth the Wizards, the Istari, are Maiar and hence in a totally different class of beings than just learned humans in many other fiction. And now I will have to go back to see your other videos. Keep up the good work! :)
I would add that the Eagles are associated with Manwe and just like Ulmo helps through dreams & suggestions at waters, Manwe sends the birds.. I cannot remember the place where that was written in the Silmarillion. Perhaps someone can help me out here?
13:12 "Saruman never smokes that we see" - sure, but Saruman does have a massive stash of pipe-weed which Merry and Pippin find (and help themselves to) in "The Two Towers" - so it's a safe bet that he does smoke, a lot. And he sources it all the way from The Shire, which is probably at least part of the reason why he goes to live there later ... albeit not in the films. 14:26 The reference to Final Fantasy VII and Shadow of the Colossus is just pointing out that the film has turned into a videogame at this point due to excessive CG, i.e. nothing on-screen is real photography anymore, everything is CG, and it's basically ceased to be a "film" and turned into something more akin to a pre-rendered videogame cut-scene. Happens a lot these days, but The Hobbit trilogy is particularly bad for it.
Yes, Saruman WAS supposed to be evil at that point, or at least working for himself. He was definitely trying to downplay the threat of Sauron at that time and had been resisting any attempts Gandalf was making to make a strike towards him.
Smoking tobacco is absolutely a way to relax and yes, to those who are not used to smoking tobacco, yes, it does give you a buzzing "high" feeling that I could consider relaxing. Why else do you think in scenes in various movies when people are stressed that they bum a cigarette from someone during a conversation?
16:50 I think the screw-up might be because LoR is so Frodo-centric that Tolkien never mentioned Gandalf's sword glowing - Gandalf himself actually doesn't wield it that much (explicitely).
Tolkien Lore, would you consider doing a video on the various editions of The Lord of the Rings, including your opinion on which edition you think is best and/or most accurate? Thank you.
Not too many handrails on medieval draw bridges. On the premise that middle earth is somewhere between a fallen civilisation & on the verge of war, 'Elf & safety' appears to be an unreasonable expectation.
I loved the hobbit movies and the LOTR movies so much until I read the books. I was introduced to Tolkien because of the movies so I didn’t realize how much was changed. Thanks for your videos. This has become one of my favorite channels to watch!
To be honest, the movie may not be special showing 35 seconds of logo's up front. If it's a sin, it's a sin and it's gotta get its notch. If they all do it, they need to learn to not do it. Or at least not that excessively. Make the world a better place, one less logo at a time.
Hey! I expected to see some Benidict Cumberbatch Draggon Goodness when I went to watch the first one! XD Lolz, I think that sin come from two things, show don't tell and every one hides the big bad to make a big reveal cliche.
CinemaSins has become the Beavis and Butthead of the commentary/review sphere. Most of what they do now is just list things as if that in of itself is funny. "He he, this guy produced it." "He he, yeah and they used a font for the titles." "He he, this person was in something else before this."
Could you do me a huge favor? Please fix the spacing on your swords & Prancing Pony sign. Maybe it is due to their varying sizes or maybe because of the lens you are using, but the negative space between the items appears to be random. It makes me grit my teeth. Maybe you can do something to balance their heights too. This is more difficult as the swords all sit at different heights in their hangers, so the can't really be all at the same visual level.
So, a complete aside and maybe something for a future video but did you register the fact that in the first volume there is a reference to heavenly bodies that correspond to those we see? 'Red Borgil' = ie; Mars. 'Remnirath, the netted stars' = ie; The Milky Way, or 'Menelvagor' which, I'm pretty sure is Orion. And isn't the light or Earendil really a reference to Venus? Perhaps you already know this, Mr. Geek, but in Homer, what we call Venus was called the Morningstar - inasmuch as it could be see for a long time past sunrise and sometimes in mid-day, before humans filled the upper atmosphere with burnt carbon particles. I myself have seen Venus burning bright hours after sunrise in the Andes. Thoughts?
"Refer to the books too much"?!?!? WTF?!?!? The books came before the movies! And, just between you and me, the books are soooo much better than the movies.
Does anyone remember the weird Robert Webb program that cinema sins tipped off? The one where he was pointing out weird 'sins' in various films and tv. But in a good way
actually glad, that i love these movies I can definitely see why people don't like them and also agree, that they had so much more potential and could have been so much better. But I really love them and can see the beauty in those movies :D
One thing you might have been wrong about is Saruman definetly smokes i swear ive seen him smoke in the 1st movie and im sure its in the books and movies that he likes weed from the Shire which is ironic with how he sees halflings
Sword: Very clearly blue CS: "haha the sword is clearly a shade of colour metal should be" Yeah I'm going to assume they are saying dumb inaccurate shit about the movie in order to drum up comments about it and drive viewer interaction.
Cinemasins is like a cuckoo clock with broken hands - basically useless and far too annoying for you to care or pay attention when they occasionally get stuff right.
The problem with CinemaSins, for example, is that they barely point out the crap changes and added things that Warner Brothers did in each of the Hobbit films, and all of the crap lotr changes and added things that Peter Hackson, his wife, Fran Walsh, and the other filmmakers did that made all of the Hobbit and lotr films into crap adaptations and Bollywood movies. CinemaSins pretty much critique the things that do not matter in each of the films at all, LOL!
Still awesome logic man, well done.:) Ya, i too watch sometimes CinemaSins ,but just for the jokes, because their sins many times make no sense. they just try to be funny by force and attack others for no reasons :( Many from their sins sadly are just stupid. :(
Most of the sins are satire and nothing more, really. Taking them as serious and legitimate criticism is wrong. Some of them are so dumb that it's a dead giveaway that it's made with humor in mind. I really like your debunking by the way, but don't take it too seriously.
In a world where Magic legit exists and fantastical races like Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, and Goblins exist... ridiculous kinda is the norm. Also, this Movie is not for kids. Check the rating again. PG-13 is not for kids. It’s for teenagers at best. Anyone younger is recommended at having an adult, or responsible teenager to know when to cut out darker and more “adult” stuff.
The movies are alright if you look at the movies with what they had to work with. They're alright if you just want to sit down and watch something with you girlfriend.
There are many excellent Tolkien channels on RUclips. Yet, hands down, you repeatedly prove to be my favorite. You speak my thoughts and opinions every time you make a video like this.
Yeahhh... I immediately called BS when I saw that hit Azog lands on Thorin. Thorin should be dead. His skull should be powder so fine Radagast would have tried to smoke it
Regarding the Eagles in the Hobbit do you seriously think they're going to risk waking the freaking dragon they KNOW is sleeping within that Mountain those crazy dwarves are heading for?! In the Lord of the Rings there's Sauron and the fact they'd be carrying the one Ring neither of which the Eagles would want anything to do with and didn't until the One Ring was destroyed and Sauron collapsed because the One Ring was the source of his remaining power?!
Hobbits gets progressively weaker with each film. Not defending CenemaSins at the slightest, though. Their chanel got very boring very soon. Your video is very good.
10:40 Agree, it does have a light glow to it, not obvious but still pretty clear if you pause. The glowing sword has been shown before in daylight and not only in caves tho, you can see it in daylight when Aragorn sends Frodo away right before he starts fighting the Uruk hai in the first movie. In that scene the sword has the same light glow it has here. About the eagles, really dont like the explanation saying they are afraid of getting shot at so they cant fly them closer to the destination. I mean, they could easily fly way above the range of an arrow comon, and while doing that they could also just fly around any settlement, its not like there is a lot of them anyways, what we see its mostly forest between them and the mountain. Also not sure why men even would start firing at some eagles just passing by. Really good debunking video overall, lots of things you point out that makes Cinema sins look stupid. But at 7:28 you do the same thing you did in earlier debunking videos, intentionally misunderstand a " sin " which is obviously just a joke.
The point is you can’t tell the difference. All their sins are presented the same way whether legitimate or just a joke. As to the Eagles that’s from the books, which they refer to in their ROTK video.
@@TolkienLorePodcast But even if the explaination why eagles wont fly them to the mountain is from the books, its still a very bad one imo. Was curious why you think its good since you used it in the video. The other one you mentioned was them not wanting to leave their home is also a bit strange, since they could fly all over middle earth. Rescuing Gandalf in Isengard, attacking orch army at the lonely mountain, even flying to the black gate attacking another orch army AND Nazguls. All this possible, but not flying around some human village, or flying high enough to avoid an arrow :)
It’s not a bad explanation IMHO. The Eagles don’t owe the Dwarves any special favors so why put themselves at greater risk? Bear in mind they’d be flying straight toward settlements and a *dragon* lol. But the main point is that CinemaSins already used that as a reason to sin ROTK so they can’t now sin them for the exact opposite.
I don't like or admire Peter Jackson's film making. His King Kong was an atrocity of longevity over pacing. However, the Hobbit stuck closer to the book than LOTR did. It was far too bloated of course, running to 3 very lengthy films whereas the source material was far more concise, but I found fewer things to complain of than I did in LOTR. Jackson's habitual grossness still offends as well as his inability to be brief but effective. The characters and appearance of Thorin's party was well realised, although Thorin was unrecognisable from Tolkien's description. Bilbo was well represented by Martin Freeman and Smaug was splendidly malevolent but the idea of the Dwarves fighting him was un-necessary and out of character. The battle sequences were ridiculously overblown and drawn out to a tedious extent. Still, apart from Jackson's habitual excesses, it stuck closer to Tolkien's story than LOTR
@@TolkienLorePodcast So that means the drug references, and their equivalent sins, are even more unnecessary because they are not smoking narcotics, but pipe tobacco. Still not good for you, but isn’t the same thing at all. Thanks for clarifying!
I don't know why we just looked down upon it when it was a healing instrument throughout time and also if you use recreationally you feel good you don't notice the depression the tolls life is taking on you makes you calmer not worry really people just want to push an agenda that oh it's bad well I know for a fact they're liars even since I was younger.Elijah
How does this channel not have more subscribers? It's clear, simple explanation of complex Tolkien lore. One of my favorite Tolkien channels
Well, some channels get a little luck, and the algorithm promotes them at the right time, and things take off from there.
Lots of things factor into a successful channel, in my opinion.
The number of subscribers on RUclips isn't the main indicator of the success of a channel. The main indicators are views and how long a person watched a video. You can make the best 15 minute video on youtube but if the average watch time is 3 minutes youtube will probably just pass you by... It's sad but true.
He also talks with no cuts I only saw a few people does that on RUclips and the only guy i know is the dude that does gun reviews
@@generaljeanmoreau6853 There are cuts, but more to tidy things up, I suspect. Certainly talks off the top of his head, showing that he knows his stuff.
@@horseradishpower9947 very true. So it makes me frustrated that someone who really knows his stuff has less of a following than a hipster with a good media presence 😤
15:43 I think it's the similarity to the melody of the nursery rhyme "this old man". Is that in any way a sin? No, not really.
I don’t think the two melodies are that similar really. Maybe it’s more generally about the fact that he’s singing at all?
On a side note, I love that Ian Holm has played both Bilbo and Frodo in the past. He played Frodo in the BBC radio adaptation and he played Bilbo in LOTR obviously
When you watched this movie for the first time, did you ever imagine you'd be defending it?
I actually didn’t mind the problems as much the first time I saw it, mainly because I was happy to see them include things I didn’t e left like the Stone Giants.
Since when is it a 'sin' to reference the source material in a review? Once more, a first-class skewer job. Well done.
It's nice to see someone take on CinemaSins. They always drove me insane with their "sins". Not to mention people always being "it's comedy you can't take it seriously" but that is one of the weakest arguments surrounding it.
I feel like CinemaSins just couldn't find much to talk about and thought he'd try to be funny instead just for the sake of having a video.
Also, don't know if it was intentional but the part where you say "...don't even seem to take the complaint in a logical direction." it's followed by Saruman saying "Because there is none!"
15:41 I think CinemaSins is just pointing out that the Great Goblin's tune is that of the children's nursery rhyme "Nick-Nack Paddywhack, give a dog a bone, this old man came rolling home" or thereabouts.
The tune doesn’t sound the same to me... maybe I’ll have to go back and listen again.
This old orc,
Drank my rum
He did swiftly lose his thumb
With a nick knack paddwhack,
Give a warg a bone
This old orc came rolling home.
yes but he then sinned it for no reason.
I love any debunking of cinemasins. It’s like shooting fish in a barrel, it’s so easy to make that particular numbskull look stupid.
Yeah, their formula was fun at first, but then they got delusions of adequacy. I stopped watching their videos years ago...
@@horseradishpower9947 that’s why I like Cinema Wins, I just like hearing someone enjoy something. I think the format suits something more positive.
@@teddtbhoy Haven't watched him in years, should see what he has done recently...
Thanks for that!
At this point, criticism from people who actually get movies is silly.
The guy isn't a film student. He is a comedy clicky fast editing dude at this point.
@@teddtbhoy he’s equally as bad. Where one is the need for criticism to the point of rarely getting any right the other is the need for praise to the point of praising what shouldn’t be praised
Jackson actually says that STING was the only one they wanted to glow so it would have center stage. The others glow but we do it as the audience see it so we aren't distracted... Many things were changed , either added for benefit or clarification and to tie in movies.
CinemaSins sin CinemaSins 'We're not film makers, we're Aholes. ' ' We don't follow our own rules '
Well then I don’t have to either, do I? ;)
@@TolkienLorePodcast not taking a dig at you, Im pointing out that they themselves dont take everything they mention seriously.
The "This old man came rolling home" sin is because the way it is sung uses the same tune as Knick Knack Paddy Whack.
The CinemaSins duo need to follow the example of the Blue Wizards and disappear.
Even has a fan of J.R.R. Tolkien I can get enjoyment out of the hobbit trilogy because I do look at it as Peter Jackson did not want to direct it but he stepped in to direct it after Guillermo Del Toro had to leave the project I’ll look at it as it could’ve been worse
Saruman does smoke, Merry and Pippin find his personal stash in Isengard. I do not recall if it is in the movie however, and definetly not in the Hobbit.
@grimlock1992 and in the book
Yeah, the thing is he tries to keep it a secret because he initially made fun of Gandalf for it but then later tried it and liked it, and didn’t want Gandalf to be like “I told ya it was good” lol
8:16 this is a reference to horses being injured and euthanized while filming these movies
Great debunking, as always.
20:30 Honestly the thing with "Oh, the eagle again!" makes me a bit mad. Because if cinemasins referenced the book, then they should have known why the eagles were there and why they attacked the Goblins and Wolves.
I don't think their intention is to be honest, it's more to take down popular films by any means possible/"comical".
@@MagusMarquillin That's true.
But I personally think that most of their take downs are just no funny... Because they are often outstretched, and rely too much on a grumpy tone that would hopefully bring the audience to an agreement with them.
@@squashedeyeball Agreed, it just feels hipster to me, if not misanthropic. I prefer CinemaWins; after then fun he actually weighs the pros and cons a bit so it feels like a fair review, with a lot of positivity thrown in.
@@MagusMarquillin Indeed. Honestly I haven't watched these channels in years. But they had good moments for me as well.
I think the rock does look like a bear, and is a reference to the Carrock (Beorn’s Rock) from the book. Even though I don’t think it looks that way in the book.
I recently watched the Hobbit trilogy again. Numerous scenes, "Yup, that'll be fun to get past in the video game..."
I completely agree with you! But each of the lotr films had a ton of that, also.
There's plenty to hate about and to point out as flaws of The Hobbit trilogy, but CinemaSins 100% just makes clickbait BS and sinned these movies without really watching them.
I think the landmarks to draw in connections to LotR is a fine way of bring it all together.
Yeah, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. They DO take place in the same world after all, and a sense of continuity is an important part of these stories!
Another reason why the eagles did not fly the group closer to the mountain is the fact well, there is a dragon inside there that could smell the eagles. And that well the eagles don't want to go near a dragon.
Unpopular opinion but I actually like the Hobbit movies, not as much as I like LORT but I do like them. I don't mind all of Balin's exposition stories I don't get bored during them and gives you a bit of back story and introduction to Azog instead of just "ok he's here now", and I don't mind exposition as a whole cus u need to know what's goin on in a movie and I know there's the whole "show don't tell" thing but sometimes that's not always the best option cus of run time and other things. I don't mind that some of the dwarves were made to look more "normal" than the others, just shows that not all dwarves are the same and I don't even mind the inclusion of Taurial (if that's how you spell her name) and the little love story between her and Kili it didn't impact the story that much, it didn't take away from the main focus of the movie that much and when you learn about the tension between elves and dwarves it kinda gives that Romeo and Juliette feeling which I don't mind either lol. The only problem I had with the movies is that fact that they killed off Smaug far to quickly. but this is all just my opinion. Sorry for the rant and misspelling lol. Cool vid tho
Me too! I actually thought the first one was a lot of fun!
"Well, they didn't have OSHA, I guess."
I recently re watched The Hobbit trilogy and found it quite bearable, which was a pleasant - unexpected - surprise. I think Jackson has fixed up the barrels-down-the-river scene so that it does not look so fake, and is now rather exciting; also he has dealt with other squeamish aspects of the film..... or is it just that I am getting senile in my old age :-) Looking forward to watching the extended "extended" 4K versions.
I'm glad you enjoyed the movies, but the only time I saw the movies was when they were in theatres. As a big fan of Middle Earth, I thought the movies did not come close to doing the books justice in my opinion. There was no reason to completely change the storyline with Azog surviving, adding in the weird romantic subplot between Fili/Kili and an elf, the spiders in Mirkwood were way too big, the black arrows were shot out of scorpion ballistas instead of a handheld bow, and the battle scenes were incredibly silly. By the Battle of Five Armies, I was wondering if I was watching the right movie, as it veered so far from the book.
"This old man come rolling home" mention is for the CinemaSins a sin because they think that this scene is too silly.
14:27 Also XII is Twelve, not Seven (VII).
Not sure what you’re getting at.
Oh wait, the time stamp was weirdly showing wrong, I get it lol. Good catch!
@@TolkienLorePodcast Thanks! :D
Hats off to TG for rewatching these terrible films AND the terrible CS videos just for our entertainment.
About the fighting scenes where goblins go down in one casual backhand hit while Thorin is only stunned by eating a full frontal giant mace…
If you’re playing roleplaying games, there are two kinds of rules systems.
One kind where humans have about 8-20 hit points, that never change. In that kind of game Aragorn wouldn’t have more than that. Isildur and Glorfindel would still be at 21. And you only raise the skills you practice. Getting endgame weapon skills take years of dedicated hard work, as well as practical experience.
And the other kind is the one with levels, where noobie low lvl chars have 6-12 HP, and high level characters with obscene stats have hundreds of hit points. No secret which kind Peter Jackson is playing here. But I’d argue that reading the books it sure as hell looks like characters are gaining levels when they do cool stuff. Like travel with wizards and being present (in the party) at momentuous events. Pippin and Merry come back from their adventures and are able to treat big bad robber militia guys as one-hit mooks. And I know they grew a couple of inches, but if this world was strictly pig farming realistic, they would still be about half as strong and also probably have less experience with weapons than the assorted bandits and mercs that control the Shire.
I agree that a lot of the fighting scenes in the Hobbit films are over the top and silly (and mostly child friendly). It’s clearly by design. I don’t really agree with that choice, but then again, my world building preferences are a lot more gritty and pseudo-realistic than even Tolkiens. All I’m saying is that in order to stay true to the books, the way they are written, it is completely reasonable to have protagonists who are epic and larger-than-life.
I think that the LotR films do a better job of it than the Hobbit films. But that’s not even an opinion, it’s more like a statement of my personal taste.
Cinema Sims is a comedy channel, not a serious critique channel. I watch it and this for entertainment purposes. Thank you both.
Glue-blowy material, lol. Glad to know I'm not the only one who gets hopelessly tongue-tied.
Lmfao I didn’t even notice the mistake when he said and even when I read your comment the first time! I had to re read it 3 times to realize the mix up lmao
CinemaSins has so many cringe commentary just trying to stretch their material, and ruin the good points they actually occasionally have
totaly agree, at their start they were kinda funny, and novelty...but ever since they became uber popular.....they just became huge cringe....
Out of the Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, and The Return of the King, which book is your favorite and why?
I never understood why they ever could be any fun, its not funny or interesting if 90% of your criticism is needless hater nitpick .... for me they are the perfect example of retarded people thinking they are the smarter kid in the classroom lol, CinemaWins is worth following though.
If in case eagles took dwarves to erebor ,i'm pretty sure all of them would easily be noticed by dragon and get cooked as in the end movies shows how smaug notice the tiny little bird on the mountain.
Exactly!’
More or less agreed. I could have done without the Azog subplot & Goblin-town fightscene, too. A couple of very minor nitpicks:
1.) Hobbits are human, that is they are neither Elves, Dwarves nor Orcs. "It is plain indeed that in spite of later estrangement Hobbits are relatives of ours: far nearer to us than Elves, or even than Dwarves. Of old they spoke the languages of Men, after their own fashion, and liked and disliked much the same things as Men did." Also, whereas all of the other races get their creation story in Silmarillion, Hobbits do not. I am pretty sure it is mentioned somewhere explicitly that they are an offshoot of Men, but I couldn't find the reference after a cursory search. Anyway, it does seem that the Hobbit kids do like very much the similar things that humans do, both in the books and in the movies, even if the adult hobbits tend to be more staid and 'respectable'.
2.) Wizards and pipeweed: As you no doubt know, Saruman does get into the habit of pipeweed by the War of the Ring. In The Unfinished Tales:
"Saruman had long taken an interest in the Shire - because Gandalf did, and be was suspicious of him; and because (again in secret imitation of Gandalf) he had taken to the "Halflings' leaf," and needed supplies, but in pride (having once scoffed at Gandalf's use of the weed) kept this as secret as he could."
But yes, I agree both with the criticism that pipeweed would be MJ (it clearly isn't, despite how much of a joke it is and has been for decades), and they also totally ignore that if that would be all there is to it, we would see a whole host of halfling and dwarven wizards, since they smoke pipe-weed. Of course, in Middle-earth the Wizards, the Istari, are Maiar and hence in a totally different class of beings than just learned humans in many other fiction.
And now I will have to go back to see your other videos. Keep up the good work! :)
The horse comment/sin was a dig at the allegations of animal cruelty on the set of tge films, especially with the horses.
Wasn’t aware of that.
I would add that the Eagles are associated with Manwe and just like Ulmo helps through dreams & suggestions at waters, Manwe sends the birds.. I cannot remember the place where that was written in the Silmarillion. Perhaps someone can help me out here?
I think it’s in the Valaquenta but not sure.
I feel like sinamins wouldn't accecpt/like divine intevervention as an explanation
13:12 "Saruman never smokes that we see" - sure, but Saruman does have a massive stash of pipe-weed which Merry and Pippin find (and help themselves to) in "The Two Towers" - so it's a safe bet that he does smoke, a lot. And he sources it all the way from The Shire, which is probably at least part of the reason why he goes to live there later ... albeit not in the films.
14:26 The reference to Final Fantasy VII and Shadow of the Colossus is just pointing out that the film has turned into a videogame at this point due to excessive CG, i.e. nothing on-screen is real photography anymore, everything is CG, and it's basically ceased to be a "film" and turned into something more akin to a pre-rendered videogame cut-scene. Happens a lot these days, but The Hobbit trilogy is particularly bad for it.
Bear in mind that Saruman may not have started getting pipe weed by the time of the Hobbit though.
Yes, Saruman WAS supposed to be evil at that point, or at least working for himself. He was definitely trying to downplay the threat of Sauron at that time and had been resisting any attempts Gandalf was making to make a strike towards him.
Smoking tobacco is absolutely a way to relax and yes, to those who are not used to smoking tobacco, yes, it does give you a buzzing "high" feeling that I could consider relaxing. Why else do you think in scenes in various movies when people are stressed that they bum a cigarette from someone during a conversation?
16:50 I think the screw-up might be because LoR is so Frodo-centric that Tolkien never mentioned Gandalf's sword glowing - Gandalf himself actually doesn't wield it that much (explicitely).
Tolkien Lore, would you consider doing a video on the various editions of The Lord of the Rings, including your opinion on which edition you think is best and/or most accurate? Thank you.
I'm with you. I was doing a little research and needed to watch the hobbit for details... I just didn't! I watched a review instead
It's a bear.
This is so petty. I love it.
How I needed this ♥️
Keep it up , I think you’ll have arleast 25k subscribers by 2022 if not more thats minimum
Not too many handrails on medieval draw bridges. On the premise that middle earth is somewhere between a fallen civilisation & on the verge of war, 'Elf & safety' appears to be an unreasonable expectation.
I loved the hobbit movies and the LOTR movies so much until I read the books. I was introduced to Tolkien because of the movies so I didn’t realize how much was changed. Thanks for your videos. This has become one of my favorite channels to watch!
I do really like The Hobbit trilogy, despite some bad stuff (elves) Peter Jackson added (elves)
Those movies got me into reading the books
To be honest, the movie may not be special showing 35 seconds of logo's up front. If it's a sin, it's a sin and it's gotta get its notch. If they all do it, they need to learn to not do it. Or at least not that excessively. Make the world a better place, one less logo at a time.
I enjoy cinemasins, and I enjoyed this video. This is discussion, people. This is not war.
The movie is *Literally* titled: The Hobbit: An Unexpected *Journey* Come on, Jeremy!
Cut me a break!
It's always nice to see someone take CinemaSins to task for their nonsense.
Thankfully efap has done it a couple times, joker, infinity war, and rise of skywalker
Hey! I expected to see some Benidict Cumberbatch Draggon Goodness when I went to watch the first one! XD Lolz, I think that sin come from two things, show don't tell and every one hides the big bad to make a big reveal cliche.
its like he resents the movie belonging to the genre that it does
Saruman smokes weed in the Jackson films,
Merry and Pippin find some in his store room
Also that candle was in bilbos bedroom, why would the dwarves go in there?
CinemaSins has become the Beavis and Butthead of the commentary/review sphere. Most of what they do now is just list things as if that in of itself is funny.
"He he, this guy produced it."
"He he, yeah and they used a font for the titles."
"He he, this person was in something else before this."
Could you do me a huge favor?
Please fix the spacing on your swords & Prancing Pony sign. Maybe it is due to their varying sizes or maybe because of the lens you are using, but the negative space between the items appears to be random. It makes me grit my teeth.
Maybe you can do something to balance their heights too. This is more difficult as the swords all sit at different heights in their hangers, so the can't really be all at the same visual level.
Fear not, improved studio coming soon lol
The Hobbit movies are terrible tho
If you've never smoked tobacco, the you'll not know of the rush when you have your first smoke in themorning.
So, a complete aside and maybe something for a future video but did you register the fact that in the first volume there is a reference to heavenly bodies that correspond to those we see? 'Red Borgil' = ie; Mars. 'Remnirath, the netted stars' = ie; The Milky Way, or 'Menelvagor' which, I'm pretty sure is Orion. And isn't the light or Earendil really a reference to Venus? Perhaps you already know this, Mr. Geek, but in Homer, what we call Venus was called the Morningstar - inasmuch as it could be see for a long time past sunrise and sometimes in mid-day, before humans filled the upper atmosphere with burnt carbon particles. I myself have seen Venus burning bright hours after sunrise in the Andes. Thoughts?
He definitely mapped constellations to our own. After all, the story is fictionally set in pre-historic Europe. Might be a good video topic :)
"Refer to the books too much"?!?!?
WTF?!?!?
The books came before the movies!
And, just between you and me, the books are soooo much better than the movies.
Does anyone remember the weird Robert Webb program that cinema sins tipped off? The one where he was pointing out weird 'sins' in various films and tv. But in a good way
Uh, the carrock absolutely looks like a bear and it was intentional foreshadowing of Beorn.
actually glad, that i love these movies
I can definitely see why people don't like them and also agree, that they had so much more potential and could have been so much better.
But I really love them and can see the beauty in those movies :D
Yeah, at least it was an entertaining movie in its own right!
@14:28
CinemaSins: playing Final Fantasy 7
Subtitles: Final Fantasy 12
Viewers: 😶😶😶 What?
One thing you might have been wrong about is Saruman definetly smokes i swear ive seen him smoke in the 1st movie and im sure its in the books and movies that he likes weed from the Shire which is ironic with how he sees halflings
We find out he started the habit, but it seems to have started after The Hobbit, probably whenever he got in bed with the Sackville-Bagginses.
I prefer to watch Cinema Wins videos, and only when CS makes fun of movies I either didn’t like, or don’t care about.
Sword: Very clearly blue
CS: "haha the sword is clearly a shade of colour metal should be"
Yeah I'm going to assume they are saying dumb inaccurate shit about the movie in order to drum up comments about it and drive viewer interaction.
Cinemasins is like a cuckoo clock with broken hands - basically useless and far too annoying for you to care or pay attention when they occasionally get stuff right.
They're a Cuckoo Clock stuck at 12:00.
The problem with CinemaSins, for example, is that they barely point out the crap changes and added things that Warner Brothers did in each of the Hobbit films, and all of the crap lotr changes and added things that Peter Hackson, his wife, Fran Walsh, and the other filmmakers did that made all of the Hobbit and lotr films into crap adaptations and Bollywood movies. CinemaSins pretty much critique the things that do not matter in each of the films at all, LOL!
He said he wants to fight you. Are you going to respond?!
He lives near you and totally called you out.
Not tight or secure??? I don't see any dwarves dropping onto the grill.
Still awesome logic man, well done.:) Ya, i too watch sometimes CinemaSins ,but just for the jokes, because their sins many times make no sense. they just try to be funny by force and attack others for no reasons :( Many from their sins sadly are just stupid. :(
You had to watch this again? Don't they have laws about cruel and unusual torture in your country?
Most of the sins are satire and nothing more, really. Taking them as serious and legitimate criticism is wrong. Some of them are so dumb that it's a dead giveaway that it's made with humor in mind. I really like your debunking by the way, but don't take it too seriously.
Satire would actually require being funny, Cinema Sins fails at this.
With rare exceptions.
6:03 "Hobbits are not humans, they have very different Habbits."
Is a Hobbit child call a Habbit? One Sin!
Habit, not habbit lol
Really good job. Thanks man
In a world where Magic legit exists and fantastical races like Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, and Goblins exist... ridiculous kinda is the norm. Also, this Movie is not for kids. Check the rating again. PG-13 is not for kids. It’s for teenagers at best. Anyone younger is recommended at having an adult, or responsible teenager to know when to cut out darker and more “adult” stuff.
I think you figured out the sins franchise. It’s cool to complain. I hope it’s a fad that goes away.
Your so rite
All the cgi orcs looked terrible.
The movies are alright if you look at the movies with what they had to work with. They're alright if you just want to sit down and watch something with you girlfriend.
No they are boring
There are many excellent Tolkien channels on RUclips. Yet, hands down, you repeatedly prove to be my favorite. You speak my thoughts and opinions every time you make a video like this.
Glad to hear it!
Yeahhh... I immediately called BS when I saw that hit Azog lands on Thorin. Thorin should be dead. His skull should be powder so fine Radagast would have tried to smoke it
Regarding the Eagles in the Hobbit do you seriously think they're going to risk waking the freaking dragon they KNOW is sleeping within that Mountain those crazy dwarves are heading for?!
In the Lord of the Rings there's Sauron and the fact they'd be carrying the one Ring neither of which the Eagles would want anything to do with and didn't until the One Ring was destroyed and Sauron collapsed because the One Ring was the source of his remaining power?!
Happy to jump on board another “fuck cinemasins” train, because fuck cinemasins.
I can actually kinda see the bear in the rock
One dislike, I guess CinemaSins saw this video. : )
Your channel is very very good should have 100k subs in time be patient and keep it up 👍
Hobbits gets progressively weaker with each film. Not defending CenemaSins at the slightest, though. Their chanel got very boring very soon. Your video is very good.
First viewer! I'm new to your channel! I actually really like the first movie, and I don't like the hate towards it. : )
10:40 Agree, it does have a light glow to it, not obvious but still pretty clear if you pause. The glowing sword has been shown before in daylight and not only in caves tho, you can see it in daylight when Aragorn sends Frodo away right before he starts fighting the Uruk hai in the first movie. In that scene the sword has the same light glow it has here.
About the eagles, really dont like the explanation saying they are afraid of getting shot at so they cant fly them closer to the destination. I mean, they could easily fly way above the range of an arrow comon, and while doing that they could also just fly around any settlement, its not like there is a lot of them anyways, what we see its mostly forest between them and the mountain. Also not sure why men even would start firing at some eagles just passing by.
Really good debunking video overall, lots of things you point out that makes Cinema sins look stupid. But at 7:28 you do the same thing you did in earlier debunking videos, intentionally misunderstand a " sin " which is obviously just a joke.
The point is you can’t tell the difference. All their sins are presented the same way whether legitimate or just a joke.
As to the Eagles that’s from the books, which they refer to in their ROTK video.
@@TolkienLorePodcast But even if the explaination why eagles wont fly them to the mountain is from the books, its still a very bad one imo. Was curious why you think its good since you used it in the video. The other one you mentioned was them not wanting to leave their home is also a bit strange, since they could fly all over middle earth. Rescuing Gandalf in Isengard, attacking orch army at the lonely mountain, even flying to the black gate attacking another orch army AND Nazguls. All this possible, but not flying around some human village, or flying high enough to avoid an arrow :)
It’s not a bad explanation IMHO. The Eagles don’t owe the Dwarves any special favors so why put themselves at greater risk? Bear in mind they’d be flying straight toward settlements and a *dragon* lol. But the main point is that CinemaSins already used that as a reason to sin ROTK so they can’t now sin them for the exact opposite.
Since when do movies based on a book trump the book? The written works from Tolkein are the only cannon in mu opinion
I used to watch cinema sins. But after awhile he just gets on your nerves. Good job🤘
I don't like or admire Peter Jackson's film making. His King Kong was an atrocity of longevity over pacing. However, the Hobbit stuck closer to the book than LOTR did. It was far too bloated of course, running to 3 very lengthy films whereas the source material was far more concise, but I found fewer things to complain of than I did in LOTR. Jackson's habitual grossness still offends as well as his inability to be brief but effective. The characters and appearance of Thorin's party was well realised, although Thorin was unrecognisable from Tolkien's description. Bilbo was well represented by Martin Freeman and Smaug was splendidly malevolent but the idea of the Dwarves fighting him was un-necessary and out of character. The battle sequences were ridiculously overblown and drawn out to a tedious extent. Still, apart from Jackson's habitual excesses, it stuck closer to Tolkien's story than LOTR
Hobbit films are trash
how can the '77 animated version be better? I don't know. But it is.
And it's only 90min
Isn’t “pipe weed” tobacco, not marijuana?
Yes.
@@TolkienLorePodcast So that means the drug references, and their equivalent sins, are even more unnecessary because they are not smoking narcotics, but pipe tobacco. Still not good for you, but isn’t the same thing at all.
Thanks for clarifying!
What do all of the other races believe about Gandalf and the other wizards? What do they believe wizards actually are?
Hard to say really
I don't know why we just looked down upon it when it was a healing instrument throughout time and also if you use recreationally you feel good you don't notice the depression the tolls life is taking on you makes you calmer not worry really people just want to push an agenda that oh it's bad well I know for a fact they're liars even since I was younger.Elijah