SS Californian: Could She Have Saved Titanic Victims?

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  • Опубликовано: 24 ноя 2024

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  • @TheGreatBigMove
    @TheGreatBigMove  2 года назад +272

    Why do you think Californian's crew failed to go to Titanic's aid?

    • @ThatSamuel24
      @ThatSamuel24 2 года назад +50

      There's still ice to worry about which would make it hard to get there

    • @Zipshysa
      @Zipshysa 2 года назад +17

      The Smithsonian's documentary a few years ago called Titanic's Final Mystery posited a pretty solid theory: a cold water mirage from the Labrador Current not only made the iceberg impossible to see until they practically hit it, but the Californian couldn't see anything that wasn't distorted by the mirage -- rockets, Morse lamps... they might not even have been able to tell it was the Titanic at all outside of the mirage bubble. The evidence presented in the documentary is pretty convincing, too. They used survivor testimony (everyone talked about how cold it suddenly became), visual distortions (the stars were very bright and "active," firefly-like artifacts near lamps) and they found this obscure source where a fishing ship was in the area illegally, but they took accurate temperature readings by the hour and there was a sharp drop at around the same time the survivors said there was. Captain Lord may have been an absolute terror to serve under, but he probably wasn't lying when he said he thought he was looking at a completely different ship that didn't fit the profile of the Titanic.

    • @georgethomas7814
      @georgethomas7814 2 года назад +56

      @@mrplane4205 get him up again -- who hasn't been called when something didn't look right. It would of been simple -- get operator up -- hear distress message -- inform captain -- get underway. At least they could of done something

    • @AndyHappyGuy
      @AndyHappyGuy 2 года назад +30

      In the end, they still came to assist after finding out that the Titanic had sank. They didn't just completely ignore Titanic. If they knew that those rockets were distress rockets, I'm sure they would've come to their aid sooner.

    • @Blu3_SK33
      @Blu3_SK33 2 года назад +16

      Cause titanic was a death ship!! Titanic was Designed 2 go down since day 1!

  • @IvyroseGullwhacker
    @IvyroseGullwhacker 2 года назад +1890

    The Californian is a classic example of what I call the "Eh it's fine" affect. You keep seeing things wrong/unusual/out of sorts, but you just assume everything is fine and you're overthinking it. When in fact, something is really wrong. We see this all the time today from massive engineering disasters to our everyday lives.

    • @AndyHappyGuy
      @AndyHappyGuy 2 года назад +69

      "Should we make this already extremely top heavy ship more heavy with extra lifeboats, AND fill it to its capacity of 2570? Yeah, it's fine."

    • @jmcrapo32
      @jmcrapo32 2 года назад +29

      No, the Californian was waiting for colored rockets because it was supposed to be ready to rescue the passengers and crew of the “Titanic” after captain smith and his officers purposefully crashed the “Titanic” into an iceberg, which is also why they waited nearly an hour to sound alarm or do anything to begin distress operations, including evacuating passengers. Even when they did start evacuating they left life boats go half empty at first, and only begun filling them when the ship began to notably sink as if they anticipated someone else to come along and save them. Everyone involved in this insurance fraud plot is now burning in hell for the murders of over 1500 innocent passengers and crew that died in that disaster.

    • @michaela.mcgonigle6624
      @michaela.mcgonigle6624 2 года назад +154

      @@jmcrapo32 how long did it take you to come up with that one?

    • @strangeluck
      @strangeluck 2 года назад +55

      Yes, it's called normalization bias. Captain of the Californian really blew it.

    • @randomrazr
      @randomrazr 2 года назад +41

      @@jmcrapo32 wut

  • @michaelz7683
    @michaelz7683 2 года назад +1448

    This may be a biased hindsight, but I feel like if im seeing rockets from a ship that appears to be leaning some way in the water. I'd wake up the wireless operator to at least listen in and see if there is a distress call

    • @starrsmith3810
      @starrsmith3810 2 года назад +109

      Even I think they should have woken him up sooner and I’m fairer towards the Californian then most people.

    • @williamcarter1993
      @williamcarter1993 2 года назад +78

      it is hindsight. rockets could get fired off for any reason, not just distress.
      Also, with the night being so dark, you wouldn't be able to see the list of a ship. So, if anything, you'd have seen a big liner on a maiden voyage and probably assumed that they were celebrating for the passengers.

    • @flametitan100
      @flametitan100 2 года назад +181

      ​@@williamcarter1993 Rockets don't get fired off for "any reason." These aren't cruise ships; they're immigrant ships that double as mail and cargo delivery, in an age when the oceans were incredibly busy with traffic. Company signals could be fired off for the purposes of identification and communication, _but_ these were highly standardised and regular as to be unmistakable from distress signals.
      Now, they might not indicate that the ship was _sinking,_ per se. They might be saying something as simple as "Engines failed; need towing;" situations where you'd need assistance of some kind, but not necessarily a full on rescue and evacuation. Either way, if they could not identify if they were company signals or not, it's pretty negligent to not at least try to radio the other ship and assess the situation.

    • @nathanbond8165
      @nathanbond8165 2 года назад +4

      @@flametitan100 hello I can shed some light into the rocket problem recently they actually found unused rockets at the Titanic wreck site and contrary to James Cameron's own movie and popular belief that they were firing white distress rockets by the way at the time White Rocket syndicated distress we now know that Titanic was firing the wrong color Rockets buy eyewitness testimony on the Californian the proper interval for a distress rocket is to fire one white rocket every minute now we know from testimony of the officers aboard the Californian that Titanic was not following Maritime protocol by firing a rocket every 1 minute and they were using the wrong color rocket so it is very easy to see how the crew on the Californian would have thought that Titanic was having a celebration or using company signal Rockets instead of the international distress White Rocket in a 2012 documentary featuring James Cameron pigmented that they used white distress rockets in his movie but we now know that that was not the color Rockets Titanic actually was using that night so again it is blunder and screw up by the crew of the Titanic that exacerbated This Disaster

    • @nathanbond8165
      @nathanbond8165 2 года назад +4

      @@flametitan100 I'm sorry but you're just wrong this is another myth that's grown from inaccurate movies and propaganda from the White Star Line to cover their ass we now know from the Rockets found in the Titanic at the bottom of the ocean they were not white Rockets they were multicolored Starburst Rockets James Cameron admitted that he used the wrong color Rockets it is movies in 1912a distress rocket was a white Starburst rocket to be fired at exactly one minute intervals that would signify a ship in distress based on testimony and now that we know they were using multicolored rocket Titanic screw did not follow Maritime protocol which added to further confusion aboard the Californian now we also know that the Californian did eventually try to communicate with the Titanic with the Morris lap but the problem is is that the distance between the ships Morris lamps are only effective within a 15-mile radius the distance of the ships must have been greater than 15 miles because they couldn't read each other's Morris lamps the Morris lap signals were garbled and they couldn't make out each other's codes which further proves that the Californian was much further away from the Titanic than people want to believe you have to remember that even before the passengers got off the Carpathia in New York City lies Spin and propaganda by the White Star Line and the British government had begun to cover up the disaster as not to shake the faith and confidence of the public in traveling on their ships two almost immediately lies and half-truths and stories started about the Titanic disaster so that's the problem and those lies and half-truths have existed and persisted for nearly 100 years but now the truth is finally coming out because we have discovered so much more forensic and archaeological evidence at the wreck site that disproves all perjured and lies that of testimony that was given in the board of inquiry trials after the sinking in 1912 to be frank Charles lightoller and other surviving officers lied and perjured themselves in the board of inquiry at the behest White Star Line company because they wanted to continue to have a career with the company as most of them did go on to have long and distinguished careers

  • @Cyynapse
    @Cyynapse 2 года назад +808

    fun fact: you can actually see the Californian in Titanic 1997. Cameron left it in a single shot as a single pixel light on the horizon just so people wouldn't say he forgot about it.

    • @astrinymris9953
      @astrinymris9953 2 года назад +146

      There was also a deleted scene of the interchange between Cyril Evans and Jack Phillips. I wish they'd left it in, but I realize that the movie was already hella long.

    • @krogdog
      @krogdog 2 года назад +53

      Is it right after Molly Brown says:
      “Now there’s something you don’t see every day” ?
      I’ve watched the movie a few times looking at that spot and I still don’t see it 🤷‍♂️

    • @madwelder9768
      @madwelder9768 2 года назад +31

      @@krogdog yea its really there its just a flicker it's hard to see just a flash or 2

    • @meganalguire1238
      @meganalguire1238 2 года назад +15

      Do you know the time stamp in the movie where you can see the Californian?

    • @SamirJzVFX
      @SamirJzVFX 2 года назад +3

      @@meganalguire1238 .

  • @rmp5s
    @rmp5s Год назад +265

    It's INSANE to think there was a ship within visual range during all that...

    • @yirmiyahu7265
      @yirmiyahu7265 Год назад +6

      Nakakapanghinayang.

    • @kathythompson2434
      @kathythompson2434 Год назад +17

      It seems ridiculous to think the distress rockets were perhaps company signals. To who? They were too far away from the company.

    • @MatteoRamaccioni84
      @MatteoRamaccioni84 Год назад +1

      Well they could only see the masts lights not the full ship

    • @scabbycatcat4202
      @scabbycatcat4202 10 месяцев назад +7

      @@MatteoRamaccioni84 Well they could see enough to comment- "she looks a bit awkward out of the water doesn't she" ? That is the most damning evidence of all. Those that have tried to exonerate Capt.Lord need look no further than the testimony given at Lord Mersey's enquiry.

    • @MatteoRamaccioni84
      @MatteoRamaccioni84 10 месяцев назад +1

      @@scabbycatcat4202 i'm not trying to defend Lord, i'm just basing it on true and documented facts, that phrase was never said. We know that she was about 10 Miles away, from that distance the earth curvature and the cold water mirage can distort light and make it not visible. They could only see the mast lights. The morse signals were also distorted so they tought it was a mast light flickering.

  • @chrishickory7907
    @chrishickory7907 2 года назад +154

    "Gee. That ship looks like it's sinking! And they're firing flares!"
    "Alrighty, Goodnight!"

    • @dancingtrout6719
      @dancingtrout6719 2 года назад +7

      And in the Morning they Reacted By Throwing The Scrap Log Book Over Board...lol

    • @yanasimitchiyska9289
      @yanasimitchiyska9289 9 месяцев назад +1

      😂

    • @fmyoung
      @fmyoung 5 месяцев назад

      @@dancingtrout6719 I think that's no joking matter

    • @dancingtrout6719
      @dancingtrout6719 5 месяцев назад

      @@fmyoung how about this joke :: 3rd class werent allowed to go too Heaven

  • @carydonnell8323
    @carydonnell8323 Год назад +76

    How you can clearly see rockets being fired from another ship and see a large chunk of that ship listing with your own eyes yet fail to take action is beyond me.

    • @misterwhipple2870
      @misterwhipple2870 9 месяцев назад

      They brought that out at the trial, and it was still white-washed. The prosecutor did his damnest to string up the deck officers and the captain for it, but he failed.

    • @erichinansen4238
      @erichinansen4238 8 месяцев назад +3

      Everyone knows what white flares , rockets mean at night and at sea ....DISTRESS ....CQD CQD ( __ .__ . __ __ . __ __ .. )/// It's a CQD old man , come quickly !!! Marconi operator on Californian should have been advised when rockets were seen ....no excuses !!!! God rest their souls .

    • @misterwhipple2870
      @misterwhipple2870 8 месяцев назад +3

      @@erichinansen4238 Cyril Evans was asked that very question in court. He had to take an examination on that and other subjects to be licensed as a Marconi operator, but in court he squirmed out of that question over and over, and refused to give a straight answer.

    • @erichinansen4238
      @erichinansen4238 8 месяцев назад +1

      @@misterwhipple2870 protecting his Captain ? ? Unlikely everyone on Titanic could have been saved by Californian but death toll would be lessened .

    • @misterwhipple2870
      @misterwhipple2870 8 месяцев назад +3

      @@erichinansen4238 Protecting his own ass. His Captain dug his own grave and he could not have been saved. Yes, I addressed that at best Captain Lord could have saved only a few hundred. Better than nothing.

  • @erinclarke2695
    @erinclarke2695 Год назад +47

    Can you imagine Stanley Lord’s “Oh I done fcked up” moment when he heard Titanic had foundered

    • @FalconFlyer75
      @FalconFlyer75 5 месяцев назад +3

      Tbh he has reason to be ticked off
      He made the decision to stop for the night and deal with the ice in the morning and the titanic did not
      As a result they sank and his reputation went down with them
      Can you imagine that being done to you because of someone else’s mistake
      Yes he should have paid more attention to the titanic situation but that wouldn’t have been needed if they stopped for the night in the first place

  • @doctoremil2678
    @doctoremil2678 2 года назад +413

    From what I can see, the Californian's crew absolutely should have at least tried to conduct a rescue operation, though their efforts very likely would have been futile.

    • @Urlocallordandsavior
      @Urlocallordandsavior 2 года назад +27

      Oftentimes, doing an action is still "commended" from my experiences.

    • @KLC6432
      @KLC6432 2 года назад +40

      Agree - even well documented that the Olympic was 500 miles away and steamed towards her position.

    • @dancingtrout6719
      @dancingtrout6719 2 года назад +7

      @@Urlocallordandsavior agree but their action was too throw the scrap logbook over board...lol

    • @detcordxxxi
      @detcordxxxi 2 года назад +8

      The optics of at least pretending to assist would've definitely helped in the case of public opinion.

    • @GOLDTR1GGER
      @GOLDTR1GGER 2 года назад +2

      There was a 2 hour window where California could have had enough time to come to the rescue.
      But yet the sister ship Britannic only took 55 minutes to sink and only 30 people were lost to the sea.
      I bet California was a staging post to rob the Titanic and explosives was charged in the high pressure of the boiler and engine rooms

  • @souravkarmakar7041
    @souravkarmakar7041 Год назад +18

    *sees a house burning
    Lord- ohh, they are having a bonfire..
    -But i think i heard screams
    Lord-Ohh, thats nothing, they are probably excited.

  • @shotty2164
    @shotty2164 2 года назад +70

    People that defend Stanley Lord fail to realize that even if the ship that was shooting rockets wasn’t the Titanic, as some claim, the fact is that Stanley Lord still ignored SOME vessels distress signals. He didn’t even bother to ask his Marconi operator to wake up and see what was going on, because he didn’t want to take the chance on finding out that something really was wrong and having to act. He was a sociopath, and was only concerned about himself.

    • @mikhailiagacesa3406
      @mikhailiagacesa3406 8 месяцев назад +7

      I'll have to inform the Californian's owners of your 'opinion'. lol.

    • @insane_rail_lover
      @insane_rail_lover 7 месяцев назад +1

      @@mikhailiagacesa3406the Leyland Line? Sorry but they’re long gone

    • @andrewstackpool4911
      @andrewstackpool4911 6 месяцев назад

      Absolute rubbish! But par for the course from the ignorant. And you may be interested to know that he has been exonerated

    • @misterwhipple2870
      @misterwhipple2870 6 месяцев назад +2

      @@andrewstackpool4911 So was O. J.

    • @Rodizime
      @Rodizime 6 месяцев назад

      I'm pretty sure the SS Californian warned the Titanic about the nearby icefields in the area

  • @mofoprada
    @mofoprada 2 года назад +568

    I see both sides to be true.
    The crew of the Californian are scapegoats for the unrealistic expectation that they could have saved all 1,500 lives that night. There is no saying how long it could have taken them to reach Titanic, with the ship’s engines being off & navigating around a dangerous ice field.
    However, the sheer fact that the captain did not wake up the wireless operator after the first distress rocket were fired is inexcusable. A response to one of Titanic’s radio messages & a call to action would have easily made them heroes, similar to Carpathia’s crew.
    They didn’t have to reach Titanic that night, since that was not a guarantee (given a lack of definitive time). But simply waking up the wireless operator & answering the rescue call would have been enough.
    Instead, this ship, it’s crew and captain will forever be linked with infamy & one of history’s biggest what-ifs.

    • @mexicanofr7762
      @mexicanofr7762 2 года назад +1

      1496 died

    • @jackdale9831
      @jackdale9831 2 года назад

      "Engines" aren't boilers. Within 30 minutes, Lord could have been chugging-along, getting faster & faster up to 14 knots. If 19 miles away, Lord would've arrived, 30 minutes - an hour before the plunge. If not all, hundreds could've been saved. Hundreds would have already drowned in steerage & some of the lower cabins, long before the plunge. The Olympic {REAL, Titanic}, 500 miles away, still TRIED to sail to the wreck, as should have Lord & the Californian,--a practically empty-ship.

    • @mofoprada
      @mofoprada 2 года назад +43

      @@jackdale9831 There is no definitive estimate on how long it would have taken the Californian to get the boilers & engines ready to sail after the ship stopped at night.
      There is no definitive knowledge of exactly how far was the Californian was from Titanic, even though 15-20 miles seems to be a reasonable distance.
      Assuming the Californian gets running in 30 minutes or so, they would have to navigate around the same ice field that doomed Titanic. No one knows if they would have run into issues on the way to rescue Titanic’s people.
      The Californian could not guarantee anything that night as far as having enough time to operate a rescue mission.
      However, they are responsible for not waking up the wireless operator to find out what was actually going on that night with the Titanic.
      If they wake up the wireless operator & go to Titanic’s aid, that would have been enough that night.
      Whether they make it in time to save people before Titanic sinks will forever be a guessing game…

    • @jp-legal
      @jp-legal 2 года назад +17

      "There is no saying how long it could have taken them to reach Titanic, with the ship’s engines being off & navigating around a dangerous ice field"
      Really?
      Yet we can say it almost exactly, because that is what happened next morning.
      He got the mayday message at 5:30 and arrived 8:30 at the wrong position which the Titanic gave and he needed over half an our to come to the right site at about 9:00. You are able to do the math. So Lord needed 3.5 hours
      Cruising through ice field at night he would have been more careful, less fast as the next morning. So he would have needed at least 4 hours in dark night and icefield.
      So mayday call was at 0:15 . Californian would have lightened the steamer and come to rescue.
      2:20 sinking of Titanic.
      3:30 Carpathia arrives with Rostron.
      4:15 Californian would have arrived, almost an hour later than Carpathia
      How long do you think you can swim in almost freezing water?
      Please do not state we cannot say when it is obvious that we can have educated guesses at least. It is embarrassing.

    • @jp-legal
      @jp-legal 2 года назад +5

      @@jackdale9831 Why do you think they needed more than 3 hours the next day?

  • @Kaidhicksii
    @Kaidhicksii 2 года назад +163

    I just watched A Night to Remember last night, and most critically beforehand, I heard Captain Lord's side of the story. While I don't remember all the details, he adamantly defended to his dying days that there wasn't much he could have done anything about the situation. I assume he meant that his engines were shut off and it'd take some time to relight them, not to mention then having to navigate the icefield. What do I think? While the Californian was a small, slow ship built specifically for carrying cargo, with only a handful of crew, trapped in an icefield, and then coupled with the standards at the time for not having the Marconi on 24/7, I call sheer incompetence on their end. WHO, IN THEIR RIGHT MIND, would stop a ship in the middle of the night, in an icefield in the middle of the ocean, to fire company signals? What kind of stupid idea is that? On top of that, they saw that the ship appeared to be listing, and they attempted to communicate with her to no avail. Why in the blazing hell would the obvious not pop in your mind to even suggest waking up the radio operator, and try to contact her via Morse code?
    Long story short, there were a lot of factors at play that night. It's impossible and wrong to place all the blame on the Californian, as there were a lot of things that they simply couldn't control. However, there were equally as many very simple things that they did have control over but didn't try. That's the important thing here: they could've at least tried.

    • @dancingtrout6719
      @dancingtrout6719 2 года назад +11

      they threw the scrap logbook over board

    • @annabellelee4535
      @annabellelee4535 2 года назад +7

      And gone down from hitting an iceberg? No, there was nothing they could do, there is doubt that they even saw the Titanic. No, the fate of the Titanic falls squarely on the shoulders of Cap't Smith.

    • @aj6954
      @aj6954 2 года назад +2

      @@annabellelee4535 They didn`t see the Titanic, they couldn`t, they were 20 miles away. They had no idea what was going on, too far away to see any coloured rockets, yet Capt Lord spent the entire night enquiring about them. And all this wasn`t the fault of Smith, it goes much higher, although he could have refused the trip.

    • @annabellelee4535
      @annabellelee4535 2 года назад +6

      @@aj6954 Captain Smith sailed too fast in an ice field, why would Smith refuse the trip and Captain Lord was awakened with news that there was a signal rocket and he told the crew to signal to them and nothing happened.

    • @aj6954
      @aj6954 2 года назад +1

      @@annabellelee4535 Lord was expecting to see coloured rockets, but the only ones seen by his crew were white and were fired from a ship that definitely was not Titanic. It was Smith`s final trip before retirement, his pension depended on him taking it, but with J P Morgan`s involvement, he would have been justified in walking away.

  • @sandpiperr
    @sandpiperr 2 года назад +81

    Yeah, I agree it's very dubious as to whether they Californian could actually have saved the passengers who weren't in lifeboats, but it seems pretty clear that the Californian should have at least made more effort to figure out what was going on with the Titanic when they saw the rockets.

    • @supercomicgirl6425
      @supercomicgirl6425 2 года назад +14

      I agree. Should of woken that damn operator and find out what was going on with the ship they could see in the distance.

    • @Borninthe80s.
      @Borninthe80s. Год назад

      @@supercomicgirl6425 how’s it the damn operator was he not allowed to go to sleep

    • @tomcurda4203
      @tomcurda4203 10 месяцев назад

      That would have required an officer of the watch with initiative. Herbert Stone did not have it.@@supercomicgirl6425

    • @stephanietheentertainer1989
      @stephanietheentertainer1989 9 месяцев назад

      Agreed!

    • @derekheeps1244
      @derekheeps1244 8 месяцев назад +2

      Titanic took around two hours , or longer to sink . Californian could easily have steamed to meet her , in fact titanic could , had they made contact have steamed halfway to meet her , they could have hove to and transferred passengers directly . All entirely feasible .

  • @lavality4221
    @lavality4221 2 года назад +139

    The Californian actually was shown in James Cameron’s 1997 version, it’s really easy to miss, there’s a certain scene where the bow is already going under and you can actually see in the distance a very small blinking light on the horizon, it’s pretty cool

    • @gessicafarias8738
      @gessicafarias8738 2 года назад +2

      Yes!

    • @whovianhistorybuff
      @whovianhistorybuff Год назад +20

      It's just after molly brown says "now there's something you don't see every day" you can spot the light just as titanic fires off rocket.

    • @tomcurda4203
      @tomcurda4203 10 месяцев назад +1

      Not important.

    • @mohammedhisham2519
      @mohammedhisham2519 9 месяцев назад +1

      On which side of the screen

  • @repowers2
    @repowers2 2 года назад +181

    Even if California could have magically gotten there before the final plunge, the logistics of getting hundreds of panicked people from a sinking ship (whose lifeboats were already launched or in unlaunchable positions), across deadly cold water, and up the side of another large ship, in the dark, with a very small crew, would make it a huge challenge.

    • @gromert
      @gromert 2 года назад +37

      Hugh challenge indeed. Based on the timeline, distances and speed, it seems unlikely that Californian could have arrived in time to save anyone not already in a lifeboat.

    • @PeggyR70
      @PeggyR70 Год назад +10

      But couldn't California have arrived before the ship sank?

    • @PeggyR70
      @PeggyR70 Год назад +12

      But it wouldn't have been that dark. California had lights and presumably a search light.

    • @zetandpeligaming
      @zetandpeligaming Год назад +25

      You've also got to consider that the operation of getting people to lifeboats would be impacted if they were aware a ship was only 20 minutes away. They could send the boats towards its know location and Californian could launch its own boats to recover those in the water.
      Let's assume Californian and Carpathia could go the same speed. Carpathia was 58 miles away and got to the Titanic site In 4 hours. If Californian was 20 miles away that's 1hr and 20 minutes. If Californian had headed straight there then it would have an hour at the site. Long enough to launch its own lifeboats at least even with no-one in them.
      Some reports say it was 6 miles away, which means it would have taken about 30 minutes to get to the site of the Titanic, leaving almost 2 hours to ferry everyone off.
      The likelihood is everyone still on board in engine spaces etc would have died, but at least a good chunk of people that fell into the water ~1000 people could have been saved?

    • @Marky2216
      @Marky2216 Год назад

      Factos

  • @Unownshipper
    @Unownshipper 2 года назад +204

    This is a very well-made video. I especially liked the use of animations and ending this with Eternal Father, Strong to Save. The only thing I felt was missing was an explanation of what "company lights" are in this context (advertisement lights, communication rockets, anything other than distress signals?) for the uninformed. Because this is the internet, I'm sure you're going to be blasted by some for taking such a strong position on Captain Lord's actions, but I thought you argued your case well.

    • @flametitan100
      @flametitan100 2 года назад +20

      They're private night signals, primarily for the purposes of identification and communication. For example, when a White Star Ship approached Cobh at night time and was in need of a pilot for harbour navigation, they would fire two green flares, a rocket throwing two green stars, and then two more flares.
      The big thing though is that they're regular patterns, and coloured as a rule. Titanic's distress signals were all white, though they weren't fired at the regularity the BOT suggested (around once a minute.)
      EDIT: Looking it up, the 1/minute rule only applied to guns or other explosives. For Rockets and Socket signals it merely had to be "short intervals."

    • @someonespadre
      @someonespadre 2 года назад +2

      Anglican hymns are the best hymns

    • @jaynichols7932
      @jaynichols7932 Год назад +1

      @@flametitan100 That's a great explanation regarding the rockets - never knew that

    • @AdamLattin-kb4dc
      @AdamLattin-kb4dc Год назад

      Hmm

    • @johnarat9618
      @johnarat9618 Год назад

      @@flametitan100 Titanic's distress signals were white, yet the SS Californian did nothing. I am curious, what was the requirement for distress rocket colors back then?

  • @shahancheong9792
    @shahancheong9792 2 года назад +117

    Say what you will defending or convicting Lord - the simple fact of the matter is - he didn't do enough. If they were serious about contacting the other ship, they would've woken up the radio operator, turned on the set and made contact. The fact that he, or the officers, or anybody else, never thought to do this, is really the crux of the matter.
    Everything else one might forgive or excuse. Not recognising the ship, not detecting the morse lamp, mistaking the distress rockets. But deliberately not making every effort to contact the other ship, which they suspected was in distress, by not bothering to wake up the wireless operator and turn on the set, is the one thing you can't excuse or ignore.
    Even if it made no difference to the outcome, they could at least have said that they made every effort to help. But they didn't. That's what gets me.

    • @abloogywoogywoo
      @abloogywoogywoo 2 года назад +14

      The Senate that deemed his inaction reprehensible and ensured he would never captain another ship again, said, we don't question your failure to respond to the Titanic's distress and cries for help, its that you knowingly failed to respond to _someone's_ cry for help.

    • @theoddstrokesswimmingvideo1314
      @theoddstrokesswimmingvideo1314 2 года назад +10

      The problem is Californian did respond with morse lamp but neither Titanic nor Californian could make out each other's signals. Likewise Marconi wireless was a relatively new technology, if Lord was asleep and woken out of a sound sleep, off watch, by his officers and asked what to do, he would have gone back to standard operating procedure: visual signals. Whether it was because he was groggy and didn't remember the wireless, or he would have thought that his officers would have already tried wireless communication but it had failed ( as let's face it, the Marconi devices were finicky, as proven by Phillips and Bride spending most of April 13, 1912 fixing their machine on Titanic.) can be debated. But it would be the officer of the watch that would be ultimately responsible, especially if he did not disclose all attempts to contact the ship with the Captain. While Captain Lord took a brunt of the wrath of the US and British Inquiries, Stone and Grove should share more of the blame, especially if Lord was not given full disclosure. Indeed, Lord's reaction upon hearing the wireless messages seems to show that had he been aware of the full scope of the disaster Californian would have made an attempt at rescue. Indeed why Stone did not think to wake Evans is baffling nearly one hundred and ten years later. It seems the officers of the Californian fell back to tradition instead of utilizing all of the technology available to them.

    • @benwilson6145
      @benwilson6145 2 года назад +3

      You are wrong, Flares were not a distress signal at that time.

    • @abloogywoogywoo
      @abloogywoogywoo 2 года назад +5

      @@benwilson6145 They were. Titanic was firing the wrong colour, because that's all they had. Nevertheless the crew of the Californian knew Lord was an unpleasant captain to work under and wouldn't wake him up for anything. Not even a ship that's firing flares or visibly listing on the horizon.

    • @abloogywoogywoo
      @abloogywoogywoo 2 года назад +6

      @@theoddstrokesswimmingvideo1314 The crew of the Californian also made a grave error in not sending the messages to Titanic via a Master's Service Gram, which would force Jack Phillips to notify his captain immediately. The problem with Lord was, the man was a complete sociopath, he never showed during his career he once cared about the lives of his crew, his passengers or other ship's crews and passengers. It was reported his crew were fearful of waking him. Honestly I couldn't blame them. Being stuck on a ship, no being stuck at all, with a sociopath is NEVER a pleasant experience.

  • @flametitan100
    @flametitan100 2 года назад +254

    10:09 I should note: The 58 mile distance for _Carpathia_ is based on Boxhall's CQD position, rather than the actual distance between the two ships. In reality, they were more like 43-45 miles apart.

    • @karlbark
      @karlbark 2 года назад +6

      At about 10km distance, they would have dipped out of sight from each other. (Below the horizon).
      -greetings, K from 🇮🇸

    • @TitanicHorseRacingLover
      @TitanicHorseRacingLover 2 года назад +2

      Yes. That is right.

    • @oilersridersbluejays
      @oilersridersbluejays 2 года назад +1

      @karlbark greetings Icelander 🇮🇸 from a Canadian! 🇨🇦

    • @KB4QAA
      @KB4QAA 2 года назад +24

      @@karlbark That is not true. That figure is perhaps reasonable for two people each at the surface of the water. It is NOT true for watch officers on the bridges with elevations of +20 meters (60feet) or more looking at one another and looking at the others large ships. On this crystal clear night with lighted ships, the visible distance could easily approach 20 miles/45km. (retired sailor).

    • @flametitan100
      @flametitan100 2 года назад +3

      Why are we talking about ship visibility on a comment about how the _Carpathia_ was closer than she estimated herself to be?

  • @OfftheWallTales
    @OfftheWallTales 2 года назад +76

    The one issue I see is that you said the "shut up" was because he was tired and stressed. In fact, most of these wireless operators went to school together and knew each other. The equipment was new so they were all relatively young. So they'd sometimes radio each other things that would be graphic for the time (I believe in a court case they were afraid to even read 'hell').
    They tended to have shorthand for shut up, and all knew it was meant playfully because the wireless operator was busy. So it'd essentially be like if I was in sales and a friend called me to tell me the weather, while I was talking to several customers. I'd probably reply back on the phone "shut it, I'm trying to work here" as a joke, because I figure I can get the weather later.
    It was nothing malicious. Just two young adult men who were friends for a while and joked about in very vulgar ways during the time.

    • @Ometecuhtli
      @Ometecuhtli Год назад +5

      The Marconi operator calling him "old man" is also a sign of familiarity and not him trying to mock him as his "father". The Olympic was also telling them to shut up when trying to establish communication with Titanic which they all understood, the sad thing is even if Phillips relayed the message to Smith it would've made little difference as ships at the time wouldn't slow down until they themselves spotted the ice field.

    • @fmyoung
      @fmyoung 5 месяцев назад

      That's right I don't think Evans called it a day because of Jack Phillips's rude reply I think he was just plain tired

  • @wacky_duck1095
    @wacky_duck1095 2 года назад +11

    titanic: HELP US WE'RE SINKING!
    californian: eh, you're fine

    • @DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY
      @DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY 2 года назад +1

      Carpathia: We’re coming as quickly as possible! We’ll be there within four hours!

  • @jetsons101
    @jetsons101 2 года назад +82

    That night things were very different, no GPS, cell phones. no voice communication of any kind. The wireless was like a "party line" from years ago with everyone trying to communicate over each other. When it comes to blaming the crew of the Califorian, the captain has sole reasonability. I think that Jack Phillips should take part of blame because Ice Warnings are a bit more important than passenger messages. Great video, nothing like good back stories.

    • @marksherrill9337
      @marksherrill9337 2 года назад +7

      Yes. The radio operator was not part of the titanic crew but was an independent organization. Is that true if all ships? Don’t know but I would think an ice warning could be or possibly not be important to a radio man depending on what he understands about ice.

    • @combatwombatcreations8569
      @combatwombatcreations8569 2 года назад +13

      @@marksherrill9337 the Marconi men made their money based of the number of passenger messages they had sent. iceberg warnings didn’t make them any commission so they were often overlooked. Idk for sure but that’s my understanding also if u want to know more there is a great video by oceanliner designs about jack Phillips being “rude” to the Californian.

    • @Erikaaaaaaaaaaaaa
      @Erikaaaaaaaaaaaaa Год назад +1

      Jack Philips did give the ice warnings to the captain. They had received lots of ice warnings before the Californian sent theirs. The reason he didn't share Californians warning is almost certainly because there was no need, Captain Smith was already very well aware of the ice field.

    • @Spright91
      @Spright91 Год назад +5

      There was a whole host of people to blame for the whole thing. The captain for going full steam knowing there were icebergs, the radio operator for ignoring the warning the governing bodies regulating lifeboats the officers of the californium.

  • @melemental304
    @melemental304 2 года назад +90

    Excellent video! Perhaps a logical follow-up to could Californian have saved Titanic victims would be looking at other response and rescue efforts from the era, specifically the Republic in 1909.

    • @Ometecuhtli
      @Ometecuhtli Год назад +2

      The lesson that should've prevented the Titanic disaster.

  • @andrewreynolds4949
    @andrewreynolds4949 2 года назад +312

    If the Californian had its boilers turned off and cold, it’s probable it would have taken considerable time to relight them. Assuming they see the distress rockets and then wake up the radio operator to ask what’s going on, then relight the boilers, then pick their way though the ice field carefully so as not to sink themselves, that would most likely have been a considerable amount of time. I don’t know enough about the timescales involved, but I suspect the Californian in that scenario would not have arrived quickly enough to save “all the passengers “. They probably would have made a difference, but considering the dark and the chaotic nature of a sinking and the following rescue, I think there would likely still have been considerable loss of life.

    • @lucassb937
      @lucassb937 2 года назад +34

      I was thinking about that issue of the boilers. Certainly they wouldn't turn off all of them, in order to keep the heat of the ship I suppose... Relight the cold ones would sure take a lot of precious time. Then, considering the boilers that may still be on, could they produce enough speed for the Californian in order to arrive to the Titanic in time and make any difference?

    • @THOMistheshit
      @THOMistheshit 2 года назад +67

      The boiler's most certainly were not off and cold. bringing a ships steam pressure up would be a process taking sometimes 2 days.

    • @nathanbond8165
      @nathanbond8165 2 года назад +38

      They would keep the service boilers on but yeah to get enough steam pressure to run the engines would take 30 min minimum and yes the it was so dangerous that night in the ice field that's why they stopped for the night... do you know how dangerous it has to be for a ship to stop sailing? It's a big deal to stop a ship considering time schedules and contract performance and late delivery fees... so yeah

    • @nathanbond8165
      @nathanbond8165 2 года назад +18

      @@lucassb937 no the two ships were farther away from each other than people think... they could not read each other's Morris lamps that have a max range of 15 miles so we know that they were at least 15 plus miles away probably more like 20 to 25 miles and fastest the Californian could have gone at night in a ice field is maybe 7 to 9 knots per hour plus the half hour to fire the boilers so she would have beat the carpathia by maybe 1 hour still too late save people out of the 28 degree water which kills in less than 15 minutes

    • @patrickhavice4541
      @patrickhavice4541 2 года назад +39

      The boilers we're absolutely not off, but in an "idle" configuration. This way you could keep essential functions like heat and light without keeping full steam pressure. If they had seen the first rockets, woken up the Marconi operator, got news of the sinking, it would likely have only taken 30 or so minutes to get enough steam to move the ship, and the steam would build pressure and therefore increase speed as they travelled.
      As for the ice, these ships were all equipped with the same rockets Titanic fired, which could light up the entire area around them for many seconds or minutes. Add that to the fact that the Californian was slower and smaller, meaning it could turn much faster than the lumbering Titanic, means that the ice field should only have been a moderate risk, with plenty of people watching.
      And what I've seen most reliably reported for distance was approximately 15-17 miles. The Morse lamps are only effective at 15mi. But the crew said that they saw it and recognized that it was flashing, which means they would have had to have been close to that range. 15mi is not far to travel, even back then in those slow ships. It's my opinion that, had the crew of the Californian acted with the same drive and motivation as the crew of the Carpathia, they could have arrived at Titanic in enough time before the final plunge to collect hundreds of people from the ship and from the water after the sinking.

  • @JP-su8bp
    @JP-su8bp 2 года назад +57

    Even if Californian's crew had reacted at first sign of trouble and proceeded at best speed in spite of the obvious danger, I think it highly unlikely they could have arrived before Titanic sank. That said, they sure ought to have tried.

    • @dancingtrout6719
      @dancingtrout6719 2 года назад +15

      well they did manage too throw the scrap log book over board ...lol

    • @Ometecuhtli
      @Ometecuhtli Год назад +1

      About 2 hours in broad daylight, 2:30-3:00 under those conditions so unless you can last 1 hour in frigid cold waters you didn't stand a chance.

    • @fmyoung
      @fmyoung 5 месяцев назад

      They ought to have tried yes according to int'l maritime law

  • @PygmalionFaciebat
    @PygmalionFaciebat Год назад +6

    I think you forgot a very important point in this case. The captain of the Californian stopped the machines for a reason, and the crew of the Californian even told Titanic that reason, saying "we have stopped, because we are surrounded by icebergs, its to dangerous to go further in the night, at this point" ...That what their last message to Titanic meaned (they said it shorter, but thats what it meaned).
    Carpathia on the other hand was far more away from the icefield, and also their machines werent shut down. So even with the iceberg-warnings they got that night, they had reason to feel much more guilty to shut down the machines when they got clear signs that the Titanic is in danger.
    Again: the Californian felt incapable of moving for a reason. They were surrounded by icebergs. So its not only a question of time to start the machines again (which usually could mean hours, as far i read), but it was also more than dangerous. And with shut down engines, AND the awareness of beeing surrounded by an icefield in the middle of a night at newmoon, its much easier to deal with the bad feelings, than a captain of the Carpathia, who had fully running engines, and with far less ice sourrounding his ship.
    So its really hard to blame him.
    I come to the same conclusions as the investigators back then: maybe it could saved lifes - yes. But we cant say it for sure. Under those conditions its even more than possible, that Californian also would have needed help, if they striked an iceberg by trying to help the Titanic.

  • @thierryschilbach2909
    @thierryschilbach2909 2 года назад +60

    It beeps, flashes, shoots very bright rockets, lists in the water and then just randomly disappears? And not one of the officers mentions to their captain that they are witnessing a ship sinking. I think the crew on the bridge of the Californian that night should have even been able to hear Titanic’s steam blow, as very loud noises travel extremly far on water. I agree that captain Lord was lazy to investigate the situation himself, but the crew should have also informed him about the list or simply express their honest view on this situation. It just isn’t good seamanship to just sit there and not expect the worst.

    • @dwlopez57
      @dwlopez57 2 года назад +13

      They didnt realize they were seeing a ship "sinking" a ship sailing over the horizon would appear to be going down. That's what they thought they saw. I think it's a reasonable assumption. So you cant blame them for not reacting to something they didnt know was happening

    • @tinyelephant1533
      @tinyelephant1533 2 года назад +11

      @@dwlopez57 They may not have known it was sinking right away, but they sure as hell knew things weren't exactly right, and should've been able to piece it all together. A large, stopped ship (sitting in about the same spot for hours) listing in the water, rockets being fired, and the knowledge that Titanic was already in the area should've given it away.

    • @jamie91995
      @jamie91995 2 года назад +6

      @@tinyelephant1533 it was hard to see if the ship was actually listing because of the horizon. The rockets were not fired in the correct interval, for distress signals, and the Morse lamp and rockets were distorted by a mirage effect. All they would’ve seen is the lights of a ship in the distance, some flickering lights and what looks like rockets being fired at random.

    • @tinyelephant1533
      @tinyelephant1533 2 года назад +5

      @@jamie91995 They still should've been able to put that together. Even with the "all they would have seen" stuff, putting all of it together definitely can be interpreted as a ship in distress. One of the officers directly described the ship as looking "queer" in the water so they probably saw something was wrong with its positioning. The rockets, even if fired at random, coupled with the sudden stopping of the ship, and the "queerness" of it should have at the very least prompted them to wake up their Marconi operator.

    • @TheRafark
      @TheRafark 2 года назад

      Should of been charged.

  • @George-Hawthorne
    @George-Hawthorne Год назад +7

    Their lack of action condemns them, most notably failing to wake up their radio operator. Even if they were unable to save more lives. Trying and failing is still better than not trying at all.

  • @itsjohndell
    @itsjohndell 2 года назад +60

    Lord and his Officers certainly have some accountability for not recognizing Titanics plight but how soon they could have raised steam and plodded towards her is another question. This was an excellent video and I bow to your research. One point though, Cameron did in fact film much about California but had to cut it because of "Titanic"'s already long run time. However there is one very brief shot when her bow was down where California is seen, without comment. Can't cite the time frame off hand but it is mentioned in the comments on the DVD release. His original cut ran over 5 hours and Theater chains balked as that would only allow one showing per day including a needed intermission. Been waiting years for the full original cut but to no avail. Maybe someday.

    • @ShockTheSystem
      @ShockTheSystem 2 года назад +4

      I've seen a clip where you can see Californian's mast light but it's very difficult to spot even with the video's narrator telling you where exactly it is.

    • @annabellelee4535
      @annabellelee4535 2 года назад +2

      Actually there is doubt that the ship was the Titanic that the Californian saw, and that the Californian was the ship that the Titanic saw. Since each signaled the other, but without any response. The Californian thought it was a freighter that they saw turn and steam away, not a ocean liner.

    • @scabbycatcat4202
      @scabbycatcat4202 10 месяцев назад

      It is very well documented that they kept steam on throughout the night in case of emergencies- such as that which happened.

  • @Overwatch9
    @Overwatch9 Год назад +11

    A large part of the ship sticks out of the water "seems normal to me"

    • @Ometecuhtli
      @Ometecuhtli Год назад +3

      "Queer" but I guess mom prohibited you from using that word.

    • @fmyoung
      @fmyoung 4 месяца назад

      "She looks rather to have a big side out of the water" (Apprentice James Gibson)

    • @concept5631
      @concept5631 2 месяца назад

      ​@@Ometecuhtli 🤨

  • @DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY
    @DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY Год назад +8

    Today is the 108th anniversary of the day the SS Californian sank in the Mediterranean Sea after she was torpedoed by a German U-Boat and she still hasn’t been found.

    • @robertolmstead1346
      @robertolmstead1346 6 месяцев назад +1

      From what I read, her wreck is deeper than Titanic and a search would be extremely difficult at that depth.

    • @concept5631
      @concept5631 2 месяца назад

      RIP

  • @scottlewisparsons9551
    @scottlewisparsons9551 2 года назад +18

    Thank you for another great video. I find it very difficult to comment about something that happened in 1912 when communication was completely different to what we have today. Also, seamanship has evolved with better education, training, etc. Having watched your very informative and well researched video, my comment is that I think that they could have done better! Have a good day everyone from Sydney Australia.

  • @adamhickey396
    @adamhickey396 2 года назад +31

    A great book about this subject is The Titanic and the Indifferent Stranger by Dr. Paul Lee. Really goes in depth with charts/positions, atmospheric conditions and the possible locations of other ships around the icefields.

  • @ReveredDead
    @ReveredDead Год назад +3

    Such sheer incompetence by both Captains. One was overly confident, the other was uncaring and unattentive to anything out of the ordinary.

    • @fmyoung
      @fmyoung 5 месяцев назад

      I know, Cpt Lord apparently didn't want to sacrifice his nice and toasty warm bunk also he thought he'd get off the hook at court by stating how "prudent" he was in laying stopped for the night while Cpt Smith chose to fling his ship through the ice. "It will take me about 15min to do this" he told reporters in Boston. That slap on Cpt Smith was to backfire on him

  • @gilbydog7350
    @gilbydog7350 Год назад +5

    One word for the Californian's actions: Negligence.

    • @fmyoung
      @fmyoung 5 месяцев назад

      The Californian was, in the late Walter Lord's words, a ship "presided over by a cautious captain and an uninspired watch"

  • @Soundbrigade
    @Soundbrigade 2 года назад +59

    The weather conditions were a bit “off” that night. The water was at freezing temperature but the air was pretty warm, thus causing heavy refraction, making the sea look like an endless carpet almost reaching up the sky (a mirage). That’s one of the reasons the iceberg wasn’t spotted until it was too late and also a reason why California’s crew didn’t interpret the distress signals correctly.
    So even IF the ships could spot each other, the atmospheric condition could severely disturb the sightings.

    • @Ophhxiya
      @Ophhxiya 2 года назад +4

      yes

    • @markg999
      @markg999 2 года назад +8

      Yes...and Capt Smith still didn't think of maybe atleast slowing down Titanic down some in tough conditions to spot an iceberg.

    • @Ophhxiya
      @Ophhxiya 2 года назад +10

      @@markg999 he wanted to impress the world by arriving a day early

    • @comusrules1244
      @comusrules1244 2 года назад +10

      @@markg999 I’ve been reading/watching Titanic info for years. This video has made me conclude the same thing. Captain Smith was completely careless. The captain is the ultimate authority on a ship. And ultimately responsible for its actions. He shamefully disregarded the sea conditions. Sad.

    • @detonater1348
      @detonater1348 2 года назад +4

      @@Ophhxiya it was not his idea but ismay who convinced him on speeding to impress the press and set a record. Still could've disagreed but yet again it was not his idea to speed.

  • @detcordxxxi
    @detcordxxxi 2 года назад +341

    When Captain Lord woke up at 4:30am and realized what happened, he ordered the Californian to head to the scene to assist. But they didn't arrive on scene until 8:30am. So that would lead me to believe that the time it took the Californian to get her steam up, start her engines, and sail to the Titanic's position, was roughly four hours as well. Let's shave an hour off to account for the sluggish reaction and lack of urgency due to their lingering normalcy bias. That's still too late for the Californian to have saved anyone. Had Lord woken up at midnight after being told about Titanic's distress call, and taken immediate action to get the steam up and engines back on line and sail full speed to the Titanic's position, he would have arrived at around 3:30am. Still too late to save anyone not in a lifeboat. Regardless of the actions Lord and the crew of the Californian took that night, they still would've just been spectators.

    • @DocHorror666
      @DocHorror666 2 года назад +123

      I don't think anyone really disputes that Californian couldn't have saved everyone, it couldn't have taken 2000+ people. However the issue people have Lord is that he literally did nothing.

    • @Unownshipper
      @Unownshipper 2 года назад +48

      I think that's probably true, and by the laws and (admittedly lax) policies of the time, one could hardly call them guilty of anything. The only real difference is how history would remember the crew. Had they rushed to the scene as described, they'd be remembered as heroic as the Carpathia and its crew instead of with frustration and borderline contempt.

    • @detcordxxxi
      @detcordxxxi 2 года назад +56

      @@DocHorror666 Granted. But we have the hindsight of over 100 years later. If Lord had sent a message to Titanic saying, "We are building our steam up and re-starting the engines and will be underway as fast as possible," he wouldn't have been so demonized.

    • @desireegrisham3892
      @desireegrisham3892 2 года назад +3

      Nonsense.

    • @detcordxxxi
      @detcordxxxi 2 года назад +13

      @@desireegrisham3892 It's called an "opinion." o·pin·ion
      /əˈpinyən/
      noun
      a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

  • @DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY
    @DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY 11 месяцев назад +4

    Captain Stanley Phillip Lord was awakened 3 times during the Titanic sinking to be informed about the distress rockets, but he just claimed that they were just being used for a celebration and didn’t even bother to have the wireless operator awakened to check on the radio messages until around sunrise.

  • @Clouseau63
    @Clouseau63 Год назад +6

    While I agree with your ultimate conclusion that the Californian "may" have been able save some souls, I have an issue with your statement: "Stanley Lord's inaction stands in sharp contrast with the heroic actions of Captain Arthur Rostron of Carpathia" - Rostron was responding to a clear and unequivocal CQD (or SOS) from Titanic advising she was going down and requesting assistance. Lord had no such wireless message on which to act, so comparing their "actions" is a little unfair. Rostron got the 911 call from the victims of the house fire - Lord smelled a little smoke from down the block. That being said, I do think Lord was negligent for (at the very least) failing to wake up his wireless operator based on what some of his officers & crew had reported seeing. This was a very well done and interesting video - thanks!

  • @ExothermicRxn
    @ExothermicRxn Год назад +2

    A few points based on actual available evidence about the SS Californian:
    The rockets were fired at uneven intervals, that too when it was already way too late. Captain Lord had ordered the wireless operator twice to send out warnings about the ice and the position of these sightings. He had also asked his officers on watch throughout the night to keep him updated.
    After stopping at around 10.20pm, he had gone around the Californian to observe the ice field, then he went to the engineers’ cabin and informed the chief engineer of the decision to stop. At this point they noticed the the lights of an approaching ship and Lord asked Evans (the Marconi wireless operator) which ships were in the area. Evans noted that he only knew of the Titanic being in the area, and Lord replied that the approaching steamer looked too small to be the Titanic. Nevertheless, Lord ordered Evans, once again, to warn all ships in the area about the iceberg and he specifically ordered to him to inform the Titanic that they were stopped in a field of ice. This was because he was worried about an approaching ship being damaged if they didn’t have the appropriate warning or about heeding the warning and stopping too close to cause a collision because of any potential drifting.
    At about 11pm, Californian ship time, after a 17hour day, Lord left the bridge and went down to the Chart Room. He had ordered 3rd officer Groves (on watch until midnight) to inform him of any changes or updates and to inform 2nd officer Stone of the same instructions when he took over watch around midnight. Lord then went down to rest on the settee in the Chart Room.
    Here is where much of the problems and myths arise because 3rd officer Groves’ testimony in the British inquiry (2 May-3 July) makes big claims implicating Lord and even 2nd officer Stone to some extent. He asserts that he saw the Titanic, that it was 5-6 or 10-12 miles (he gives conflicting statements), that he informed Lord who refused to do anything, that he informed Stone that he saw Titanic and that Stone failed in rousing Lord to inform him of the ongoing disaster, and that he chatted to Evans about seeing the Titanic and tried to listen in on the Marconigram. It’s worth noting that the statements he makes in his testimony are contradicted by the written statements about the details of the watch from midnight to 4am submitted by Stone and apprentice Gibson (who joined Stone on watch from around 12.15am) on 18 April to Captain Lord. Groves’ testimony is also contradicted by the testimonies given by wireless operator Evans, Captain Lord, chief officer Stewart, and 2nd officer Stone. His testimony is also contradicted by the testimonies given by Captain Moore of the SS Mount Temple (one of the first ships to acknowledge receiving Titanic’s first distress wireless call, the ship was to the west of the ice field that Titanic was to the east of, distance between Mount Temple and Titanic’s wreck is around 60mi/97km) and Captain Rostron of the RMS Carpathia (the ship that rescued the Titanic’s survivors on the morning of 15th April). Yet, the British Inquiry took his word over that of all others, especially of the senior officers with far more experience than him. The discovery of the Titanic’s wreck in 1985 threw further doubt on Groves’ testimony, since the positions he gave are completely at odds with were the ship actually was relative to the SS Californian’s recorded and independently verifiable position.
    It’s also worth noting that the accusations of Lord giving false testimony about his position or of having wrongly calculated his position that are based on Gibson’s testimony don’t hold up to scrutiny. Gibson’s own written statement dated 18 April contradicts the testimony he gave in May-July to the British Inquiry implying Lord’s inaction and stating that Stone was concerned about the ship in their view and the supposed distress rocket signal. Stone’s written statement and his testimony is clear that there was no indication that the ship they had in view was in distress, nor that the rockets fired were distress signals.
    Another falsehood that’s perpetuated is that Lord maliciously changed the ship’s logs. There is zero evidence for this. All Leyland Line ships had a “scrap log” where observations or calculations could be noted in real time and the official log which had the final details noted in based on the scrap log. Leyland Line company policy required that the scrap log be destroyed at the end of each day, and this was proved by the documentary evidence and the company lawyer at the Inquiry. Nevertheless, it is still asserted that Lord was acting maliciously and trying to cover for himself, when he was simply following company policy as he had done in all previous journeys.
    We now know that both the US Senate Inquiry and the British Wreck Commissioner’s Inquiry were wrong in accepting the Titanic’s last wireless CQD/SOS coordinates because of the discovery of the wreck by Dr. Ballard and team in 1985. Both inquiries chose to assert that the Californian’s reported position was wrong (/maliciously misreported by Lord) and the Titanic’s reported coordinates in the wireless distress calls were correct. With the available evidence now, we can say for certain that the Californian’s reported position was correct and it was not 5-6 mile or 10-12 miles north of the Titanic. It was at a distance of around 20-21 miles, with the Titanic to the south east of it below. The reappraisal of the 1912 British Inquiry in the 1992 by the British Marine Accident Investigation Branch concluded that even if Lord had been informed of “distress rocket signals” and he had woken his wireless operator to establish contact and then made his way over, the SS Californian would not have reached the Titanic until after it had already sank.

    • @mariamatheson5300
      @mariamatheson5300 Год назад +2

      They wanted a scapegoat for the whole disaster and it was Captain Lord.

  • @robg4472
    @robg4472 Год назад +3

    I doubt they could have saved everyone but it is quite plausible that had they acted that some additional lives could have been saved.

  • @Hurricane0721
    @Hurricane0721 2 года назад +36

    I recently watched a documentary about mirages on the ocean. The night the Titanic sank was coincidentally perfect conditions for nighttime mirages on the ocean. I now believe that the crew of the SS Californian may have gotten a bad rap by the judgment of history. I now believe that the mirages were so distorting in nature that the crew of the SS Californian likely couldn’t visually tell that the Titanic was in distress thanks to those mirages.

    • @jeffbenton6183
      @jeffbenton6183 2 года назад +6

      Interesting hypothesis. Thanks for posting a counterpoint to what was said in the video. I'm curious to see what the response to that claim would be. By the way, do you remember the name of the documentary? Some documentaries are very well-researched and avoid jumping to conclusions, while others are the complete opposite (i.e. Ancient Aliens). Most, of course, are somewhere in between.

    • @zeddeka
      @zeddeka 2 года назад +3

      @@jeffbenton6183 this is the one in the link below - he makes a very good case that "super refraction" played a significant part in the disaster and the role the Californian played
      ruclips.net/video/UxQvij8Ttug/видео.html

    • @erinburke9711
      @erinburke9711 2 года назад +1

      It's called Titanic’s Final Mystery.

    • @Eltanin25
      @Eltanin25 2 года назад

      @@erinburke9711 Yeah and there is also a book which is more detailed about it. The author is Tim Maltin and the book is called A very deceiving night.

    • @Eltanin25
      @Eltanin25 2 года назад +1

      @@jeffbenton6183 This mirage theory is in fact very well researched, look up the book by Tim Maltin called A very deceiving night. He even found a ship log of a German ship which reported seeing such mirages some four days prior close to this area. It makes quite a lot of sense and could also explain, why the Titanic's lookouts saw the iceberg so late.

  • @MICHAEL_MAY_8
    @MICHAEL_MAY_8 Год назад +5

    You knew there was ice everywhere.
    You saw the morse lamp flickering from the ship.
    You saw multiple rockets fired from the ship.
    And you witnessed the same ship listing to one side.
    And you STILL didn't do anything???? Dude.....

    • @fmyoung
      @fmyoung 5 месяцев назад

      Indeed indeed....

    • @fmyoung
      @fmyoung 4 месяца назад

      A small newspaper in Clinton Massachusetts at the time, the Clinton Daily Item, printed a shocking story claiming that the Californian refused to aid the Titanic. The source of the story was her carpenter, James McGregor, who stated that she was close enough to see the Titanic's lights and distress rockets. It was this story, not Ernest Gill's affidavit, that raised the first serious charges against Cpt Lord and his officers .

  • @JafuetTheSame
    @JafuetTheSame 2 года назад +8

    I saw another pretty good video here on YT about Californian simple stating that there indeed could have been something "fishy" about its crew behaviour, but the main reason was they were actually on the other side of the ice field and simply were afraid to go through it in the dark and believed other ships are closer and respond quicker.

  • @elcordobes-i1h
    @elcordobes-i1h Год назад +2

    There is 1 lesson I've learned in life. Never, but never assume that someone else is going to come to your aid. You and only you can prevent and protect yourself from harm.

  • @oufukubinta
    @oufukubinta Год назад +45

    I blame Captain Smith for going all speed ahead in darkness in a known ice field

    • @pondking2801
      @pondking2801 9 месяцев назад +9

      Under the conditions that normally prevailed at the time at that location, lookouts would routinely see icebergs about 30 minutes away giving plenty of time to maneuver. Speed was not an issue, nor would binoculars be used for an iceberg watch as the field of view was too narrow. Unaided vision is best to locate icebergs against the horizon. The real issue was the unusual atmospheric conditions resulting in a false horizon, so instead of the 30 minute warning they reasonably expected, the lookouts only noticed the iceberg just before the Titanic struck it. Note that there has been no other accident like it, even though many other ships transited ice fields at similar speeds in the decades before and after.

    • @erichinansen4238
      @erichinansen4238 8 месяцев назад +1

      Criminally irresponsble ...they had ample warning with Morse messages . I believe that Jack Phillips .Marconi operator of Titanic ...felt some responsibility for concentrating on passenger telegrams to the extent that he & Bride did ....buuuut they did repair the system...allowing their signal to travel hundreds of miles. CQD ...the morse messages was how they earned their wages btw. ....God rest those two brave lads !!

    • @derekheeps1244
      @derekheeps1244 8 месяцев назад

      It was standard procedure back then

    • @ajbhuiyan4589
      @ajbhuiyan4589 7 месяцев назад

      Bruce Ismay actually talked to Captain Smith into lighting the last boiler so they could reach New York a day early and the ship picked up speed of 25 knots

    • @tomilehtsaar
      @tomilehtsaar 6 месяцев назад

      @@ajbhuiyan4589 not true, titanics 1st boiler room wasnt even used, debunking any record breaking theory

  • @admiraltogo2
    @admiraltogo2 2 года назад +19

    Best book I have read on this subject is Strangers on the Horizon by Samuel Halpern. Goes to great length to establish what the distance likely was from Titanic to Californian based on the visablity of certain lights and when they disapeared from view. His conclusion was that Californian was 12-14 miles away.

    • @jmcrapo32
      @jmcrapo32 2 года назад

      This is assuming that the vessels that witnesses from the Californian and the Titanic claimed to see were each other when in fact both were looking at the Sampson which was an illegal sealing vessel operating between them, the Californian was 17-20 nautical miles away from the Titanic (Olympic). The Californian did not witness the sinking of the Titanic, by the time they finally arrived to the location it was already far below the surface.

    • @AndyHappyGuy
      @AndyHappyGuy 2 года назад

      @@jmcrapo32 this is assuming that you're a person with no life, jealous of people more successful than you. Therefore, you cope by spreading rumours about people who are more successful than you, saying that they are murderers or want to hurt you.

    • @jmcrapo32
      @jmcrapo32 2 года назад +1

      @@AndyHappyGuy the type who believes everything they are told by NEWS and the so called authorities. I call these types sheeple. There is more than enough evidence to suggest something suspicious about the entire affair. Maybe try thinking for yourself instead of letting yourself be manipulated. Trust no one and question everything.

    • @AndyHappyGuy
      @AndyHappyGuy 2 года назад

      ​@@jmcrapo32 first of all, you can't call us "sheep" since YOU follow the word of the people who started this fear mongering blindly. At least I don't listen to the news like it is law, you listen to your bull asses like they are your gods.
      second of all, do you know ANYTHING about the construction of Titanic? When Olympic was brought in for repairs, Titanic looked like THIS ruclips.net/video/4QnwbStYcyw/видео.html Do you think they could fit out that ENTIRE thing, with no visible boat deck walls, no visible B-deck cabins, only one funnel and probably no engines and machinery in just 6 WEEKS? Don't tell me that they had 144 days, because they didn't, Olympic had to go out after 6 weeks, so they could only have 6 weeks to fit out "Titanic".
      Moreover, wouldn't you think that the people of Belfast would think that it was strange, when an empty hull suddenly became fully completed within 6 weeks, all during the time of Olympic's repairs? I wouldn't think so Mr. Crapo.
      In conclusion, you're wrong. Stop spreading this fear just because your jealous of the success of certain people. Have a good day, and have a horrible night.

    • @AndyHappyGuy
      @AndyHappyGuy 2 года назад

      Oh yeah, I suggest you watch the entirety of the video I linked in my comment, ( ruclips.net/video/4QnwbStYcyw/видео.html ) you're so wrong that even CNN looks like a legitimate source.

  • @brycetomecek5065
    @brycetomecek5065 2 года назад +3

    Fantastic video as always.
    Never get tired of your content.
    Leave no stone unturned and keep these videos coming!

  • @privacyiskey83
    @privacyiskey83 2 года назад +13

    They just didn’t believe it was possible that Titanic could sink just like the crew of Titanic who were going too fast for the conditions.
    Titanic was destined to sink without help.

  • @wherezenith2856
    @wherezenith2856 10 месяцев назад +1

    Now I know why Philips heroically stayed as long as possible on the Titanic and had no interest in saving himself. I'd imagine he felt guilty for not relaying the crucial message of the ice field.

    • @DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY
      @DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY 9 месяцев назад +2

      While Cottam heroically sacrificed his good night sleep and didn’t buy the insult the officers on deck gave him when he first informed them about the Titanic’s distress call.

  • @mayureshrasam1708
    @mayureshrasam1708 8 месяцев назад +1

    luck for those surviving 700 passengers of titanic was that morse operator of Carpathia before sleeping tried to check for one last time and heard distress from Titanic.

    • @DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY
      @DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY 8 месяцев назад +1

      He wasn’t even trying to check. He was merely wearing his headphones while on no official duty at all, just in the process of getting undressed before shutting down for the night when he just accidentally heard the Titanic’s distress call.

  • @Alex-cw3rz
    @Alex-cw3rz 2 года назад +6

    Even just waking up the wireless operator to ask if they are okay would have been the bare minimum and they didn't do that.

    • @DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY
      @DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY 11 месяцев назад

      Yeah, mainly because they were just afraid of navigating that dense part of the iceberg field while it was still dark so they just waited until sunrise when it was too late to check on the radio messages.

    • @fmyoung
      @fmyoung 4 месяца назад

      Cpt Lord thought it was all he would have to do in court to explain why his ship lay stopped for the night while Cpt Smith chose to fling the Titanic right through the ice. "It will take me about 15mins to do this" he told reporters in Boston. That slap on Cpt Smith's face was to backfire on him .

  • @MarshallDog
    @MarshallDog 2 года назад +7

    I think the Californian was definitely negligent of its duty to assist a ship in distress. However, I don't think it would have made much difference. Titanic was barely able to launch its own lifeboats before the ship sank, so my thought is those people were probably going into the water whether there was another ship available or not.

  • @malligrub
    @malligrub Год назад +1

    That was sheer incompetence. If you knew something was weird, you were in the middle of an icefield and saw another ship with the naked eye tilting in the water, flashing SOS lights at you, at least get the damn wireless operator FFS. They were less than 20miles away...

  • @shawnd567
    @shawnd567 Год назад +2

    If the California contacted the Titanic and both ships headed towards each other, they would have met in ~30 minutes.

  • @OtherWorldExplorers
    @OtherWorldExplorers 2 года назад +11

    Can anyone confirm. I'd once heard that those firing rockets were because of maneuvering difficulties and for other ships to steer clear not for distress.

    • @flametitan100
      @flametitan100 2 года назад +4

      Depends. There's a lot of different signal patterns, with the distress pattern being the most ambiguous, simply saying "a rocket or shell, , throwing stars of any colour or description, fired one at a time, at short intervals."
      Now, _how short is a short interval?_ We don't know. The Titanic Historical Society says that they should have been fired once a minute, and that the Californian failed to respond because they were fired at too long of intervals to correctly identify as distress signals. However, they're basing this off of the regulation of "A gun or other explosive signal fire at intervals of about a minute," which a separate classification of distress signal from the Signal Sockets the _Titanic_ carried in lieu of a cannon.
      In any case, rockets were not fired for no reason, even if not as a distress signal, and it was always in good practice to try to reach the ship and see what was going on if you couldn't identify the signal pattern.

    • @nathanbond8165
      @nathanbond8165 2 года назад

      @@flametitan100 all of you people are ignoring the very reason why the damn California was in the ice field it was so dangerous to try and navigate the ice bill that's why they stopped Saline wasn't like these two ships were sailing side-by-side in a race the California had stopped because it was too dangerous to continue to go forward there for the mindset of the captain and the crew would have been the safety and preservation of their own ship first which is why they told the radio operator to warn all the ships in the area that they had stopped sailing because of the dangerous ice field that was Titanic's chance to save herself that final warning from the California that said hey old man we have stopped for the night because of the ice field that was Titanic's Saving Grace that apparently either never made it to the captain or he frequently disregarded when another ship tells you we have decided to no longer go forward because it's too dangerous and you keep moving at full speed it's your fault not their fault

    • @nathanbond8165
      @nathanbond8165 2 года назад

      @@flametitan100 this seems to be something that no one understand how dangerous the situation was that night for a captain of a ship to order his ship to stop for the night is a very serious thing-ask any truck driver if your wheels are turning you're not earning!!! the amount of coal and Fuel and resources that you would burn while you sit there not moving on the open ocean is not to be taken lightly and for the captain of the Californian to decide to burn and waste Cole which by the way was in very short supply because of a coal strike back in Britain at this time means that it was extraordinary really dangerous that night and is also the reason why they sent out a warning to All Ships in the area that it was so dangerous that they could not continue selling and we're going to wait until the dawn so they could maneuver around the icebergs and yet the Titanic just kept plowing at full speed right into the same icefield almost as if it was on a kamikaze run anyway you slice it it was sheer arrogance and hubris of the captain and officers aboard Titanic to think that they would be able to see an iceberg big enough to harm the ship and they were wrong and 1500 people paid with their lives because of there hubris and lack of attention to safety

    • @dancingtrout6719
      @dancingtrout6719 2 года назад

      @@nathanbond8165 stop arguing in the morning they threw the scrap log book over board

  • @szilardretkes2703
    @szilardretkes2703 Год назад +3

    This is terrible, I didn't even know about this second ship being so close to Titanic until today 😢😢😢

    • @fmyoung
      @fmyoung 5 месяцев назад

      I know eh and I hear they didn't come because they were surrounded by ice but then the Carpathia herself made it safely to the very same ice-infested area by means of a vastly increased number of lookouts and safely plucked all the survivors from the lifeboats

  • @randyvac01
    @randyvac01 2 года назад +19

    In my mind the one thing gets me every time someone talks about the Titanic and Californian. The last ice warning the Californian sent, and Titanic ignored it. The two ships were so close to each other that the signals were deafening. So, in my mind if I was the radio operator on Titanic and heard the last ice warning as loud as it was, I would have written it down and immediately contacted the bridge. Think about it, the louder the signal is the closer you are to the transmitting ship. Large ice field ahead and ships being so close to each other, I should take it seriously. Unfortunately, to me I blame the European maritime law regulators for the sinking. They had many chances to fix the loopholes and outdated regulations at the time but didn't.

    • @Erikaaaaaaaaaaaaa
      @Erikaaaaaaaaaaaaa Год назад +2

      Jack Philips had already shared multiple ice warnings with the bridge. Captain Smith was well aware of the ice field and had posted extra outlooks to keep an eye out. It's exceedingly unlikely that yet another warning would have magically changed his mind about proceeding when all the previous warnings hadn't.

    • @Ometecuhtli
      @Ometecuhtli Год назад

      Unfortunately that was much the case at the time, ships didn't usually stop until spotting ice themselves.

    • @littlemissy2883
      @littlemissy2883 Год назад

      The reason the volume was turned up on the Titanic's radio system is so the operator could hear the signals coming from Cape race, as it was so far away, not because the two ships were close to each other,

  • @philsurtees
    @philsurtees 2 года назад +2

    *Short answer:* we don't really know.
    *Long answer:* we don't really know.
    *Conclusion:* we don't really know.
    Great video though; well made and interesting...

  • @katiebunny3396
    @katiebunny3396 Год назад +2

    The Californian should have tried. It makes me think if the guy was drunk or under the influence. It’s horrible they could have saved lives.

  • @TitanicHorseRacingLover
    @TitanicHorseRacingLover 2 года назад +10

    In my view, the "Californian Affair" happened because of miscommunications between officers and the Captain. I certainly do not think Lord was "lazy." That is silly. Stone should have gone down to the wireless operator's room and woke him up. After all, Stone, the OOW, had the watch. Either he or Gibson, the Apprentice said that a ship would not fire rockets at sea for nothing, so why didn't they wake up the operator or make a stronger case to the Captain and INSIST he come and look. Lord should have come up to look. I definitely think the Californian officers are being scapegoated. No one would have ever HEARD of Captain Lord had Captain Smith had that beautiful liner crash into an iceberg. As for whether The Californian could have saved everyone, please, people have this fantasy of Lord sailing through the ice on a white stallion and saving everyone. First of all, the engines are cold. They have to turn them on. He has to plot out a course. It took him 2 1/2 hours to get to the site in the daylight. Look, the Californian's sin, so to speak, is NOT TRYING, which they should have tried. Lord made bad decisions, but he and his crew are not murderers and all. How many people could he have saved? It depends on when he got there. Transfering passengers from one ship to another is not as easy as people think it is, either.

  • @Maritime_History
    @Maritime_History 2 года назад +7

    Today is the 10th anniversary of the sinking of the Costa Concordia.

  • @MAXIMILLIONtheGREAT
    @MAXIMILLIONtheGREAT 2 года назад +48

    They warned the Titanic that they (the Californian) was completely surrounded by ice, stuck in place, and shutting down for the night.
    Not only could they not have helped more than they did, if their warning had been heeded, there would've been no Titanic disaster.

    • @Borninthe80s.
      @Borninthe80s. Год назад

      There wasn’t much they could do though they were stuck by the ice

    • @AdilAlsuhaim
      @AdilAlsuhaim Год назад +4

      @Nega Knivez Jack Phillips fixed the radio, despite Marconi's company instructing operators not to fix it, and wait until they dock in New York.

    • @Bippe
      @Bippe Год назад +6

      @@robloxdude7564 He (radio operator on Titanic) got an iceberg warning of the area Titanic were going into and did not pass it on to the officers on watch. Commander Lightoller of the Titanic said that if he only had gotten that message he would have slowed the ship down. He also thinks that Captain Smith might had stopped the ship all together until morning. So not giving the message to the officers was a big contribution to the sinking of the Titanic.

  • @tiffanyricker9674
    @tiffanyricker9674 2 года назад +5

    How could it be Californian's fault if they didn't know what was happening?

    • @jackdale9831
      @jackdale9831 2 года назад

      Because SOME of them KNEW the titanic {--REAL Olympic} was GOING to be Scuttled! With a bent keel, the REAL Olympic could NOT be Certified, which means it could NOT carry passengers, generating monie$ for White Star. Like ALL of us, with NO income from a ship that can no longer "earn its keep", White Star Lines would go Bankrupt, selling its assets --the REAL Titanic to, maybe, Cunard, its rival. Unfit for passengers, Olympic might have been sold abroad, broken-up, or used as a nearly 900' Barge, which would bring in very little revenue. The liners nearly Identical, they were "SWITCHED",--the Real Olympic-relabeled-the titanic, now on the bottom,--the REAL titanic, relabeled the Olympic, served, --flawlessly, until sold for scrapping in 1935. The titanic {Real Olympic} was a "dog" waiting to viciously "BITE" his Master, economically. By over-insuring the "Dog" with the cheaper insurance of a NEW ship, JP Morgan could save his company, White Star, put his Dog to "sleep", and establish "US-Dollar-imprisonment", via funding the FED. Was Morgan callously to kill his passengers? Absolutely NOT, the titanic'd be scuttled near the Californian,--all would be WELL, --All Saved. the "Dog" sent to its grave 2 1/2 miles down . Unfortunately, the "sinking-condition" arrived sooner than intended, the "Dog" Fatal-ly bite-ing 1500 of his passengers & crew. Sinking within sight of Lord's rescue-ship, the Craven-Coward Lord spurning even the chance to save some, Lord stealthily smacked Morgan in the Mouth, while Lord damaged his own career, through the inaction of Human Decency, on his part.

    • @fmyoung
      @fmyoung 5 месяцев назад +1

      Cpt Lord knew what was going on he just didn't feel like giving up on his nice and toasty warm bunk

  • @roberts.arnone1808
    @roberts.arnone1808 2 года назад +5

    Excellent work here! I can’t agree with you more. The crew from the Californian might have been able to save more lives. I think if they were going to make the decision to investigate what was happening with the Titanic, they would have had to act quickly. Then make their way through the ice soon after seeing the first rockets. And as you had expressed the Californian was a slower ship, about 12-13 knots was her top speed. Most likely she wouldn’t reach that while navigating through the ice. I think it’s safe to say that by the time the Californian did reach the Titanic, she would be gone and then the Californian would be pulling bodies out of the water. Given the size of the Californian’s crew it would have been no easy task as to rescue those struggling in the water and there would still be many casualties, but maybe not as many. I think that’s what’s so great about the Titanic disaster, it’s full of many ifs.

  • @AussieGunzel
    @AussieGunzel 2 года назад +6

    It's ironic that both Leyland and White star line are both owned by international mercantile marine company.

    • @jackdale9831
      @jackdale9831 2 года назад

      JP Morgan owned Leyland and most of the other. No-one other than Morgan could arrange for a empty-ship except for a bale of 1500 jackets/sweaters in #2 hold to await the approach of the titanic REAL Olympic to be sunk next to it, except an ice-berg holed-it nearly 20 miles from its goal, where it would have suffered a coal-bunker explosion, & then sunk, Lord picking everybody up and being a Hero.

  • @Maritime_History
    @Maritime_History 2 года назад +5

    Californian was a slow ship. It took her 1 month to complete her maiden voyage. She also had to get through the ice field to reach to Titanic. I'm unsure if she would have been able to save more lives.

    • @dancingtrout6719
      @dancingtrout6719 2 года назад

      he threw the scrap log book over board

    • @Eltanin25
      @Eltanin25 2 года назад

      @@dancingtrout6719 Oh, read the inquiry transcripts! The first officer did it, because it was company policy. 1/O was responsible for rewriting the entries from scrapbook to logbook, the other officers then control it and sign it and the 1/O cut out the page from the scrapbook and destroyed it. That was normal every day. :-)

    • @Ometecuhtli
      @Ometecuhtli Год назад +1

      Probably arrives at 2:30 am at the earliest, 3:45 am if distance is 17 miles away, only if they took immediate action after seeing Titanic's rockets (12:30 am) and after confirmation from wireless operator. There's also a strange parallel people try to draw with Carpathia steaming at full speed towards the sinking site but in the case of Californian it still had to plan its course to navigate an ice field and probably 6-7 knots is a more reasonable speed for a ship that never exceeded 12 in operation.

    • @fmyoung
      @fmyoung 5 месяцев назад

      The Carpathia had to get through the ice too and she succeeded thanks to a vastly increased number of lookouts. That's what Lord could've done too in order to make it through. Cpt Lord always said his ship was 19mi away; Robert Ballard maintains she was only 10mi away; therefore, the Californian could've easily come to the stricken ship's assistance

    • @fmyoung
      @fmyoung 5 месяцев назад

      @@dancingtrout6719 I know....

  • @ShadowMk3
    @ShadowMk3 Год назад +6

    Responsible for the loss of life? No. Responsible for NOT saving ANY life? Absolutely yes. Doesn't matter at what time they finally got there, the point is a response to the first rocket would've brought them there before Carpathia almost guarenteed

    • @ShadowMk3
      @ShadowMk3 Год назад

      @K O I highly doubt other ship crews are dumb enough to potition themselves on top of a sinking vessel. The point is they could've started rescuing people freezing and dieing in the water and increase the survival rate.

  • @jeanglendinning1860
    @jeanglendinning1860 2 года назад +3

    there is an earlier movie about the Titanic disaster called ' a night to remember' in which the Californian is mentioned, i think it was made circa 1958 based on the book of the same title which was printed in 1954. the author was a Walter Lord

  • @TorontoJediMaster
    @TorontoJediMaster 2 года назад +8

    @ 1:23, you say "Californian was eastbound....". No, she was *westbound*. She was sailing from London (after initially leaving Liverpool) to Boston.
    @3:35, Phillips angrily brushing off Evans was largely due to Evans forgetting a crucial piece of wireless courtesy. If one was to interject on an operator transmitting, like Phillips was doing, the interjecting operator started by sending out a quick signal that indicated he was asking permission to cut-in.. (It was the wireless equivalent of putting up your hand to speak.) Evans forgot to do this, and just barged in. That's what upset Phillips. Evans later said he'd realized at the time what he'd forgotten and wasn't offended by Phillips' (who he was friends with ashore) rebuke.
    @7:30, I wonder if the outcome would have been different if Chief Officer Stewart or Third Officer Groves (who was described by one author as the best of the lot on "Californian") had been on the bridge during the night? What is so hard to grasp is why Stone (as Apprentice Gibson wasn't the one in charge) or Lord didn't have the simple initiative to rouse Evans and have him find out if anything was wrong. It was literally the easiest thing to do and had no risk or downside. They could even have told Evans to come on duty a half-hour later in the morning, to make up for any lost sleep.
    Coming to the aid of "Titanic" would not have been particularly difficult from a technical standpoint. Steam had been kept up in the boilers on "Californian" in case of emergency, so they could've started right away. They had a visual pinpoint on the location, so navigating wouldn't have been complex. Admittedly, they may have had to maneuver around ice, but they still could've gotten there in a reasonable amount of time. (A likely scenario, if Evans had been roused and learned of what was happening: Captain Lord would've compared the stated position of "Titanic" versus the lights and rockets seen by his crew. This would've been reported back to Captain Smith. Captain Smith would then have told Captain Lord to simply hone in on the lights, while correcting their stated position for other ships coming.)
    How many more lives could have been saved? It's very unlikely that "Californian" could have saved all 1500 who were lost. There simply wasn't time. The only possible way to come close to that would have been to maneuver the two ships so close that a gangway could be stretched to enable passengers to just cross over to the rescue ship. On the open sea, with one vessel sinking (and at an increasing rate) it's not a practicable option. Lord probably would've, best case, arrived between 1:45 and 2am. He would've gotten as close as he dared (keep in mind, the lifeboats were all around and he had to be careful about them) and sent all of his lifeboats over to take people off as best they could. How to get people into boats that were already in the water is another problem. Able bodied men could likely have gone down ropes (like Arthur Peuchen did to join the short handed crew of Boat #6), but even that would be a slow process when time was of the essence. Ironically (and definitely counter-intuitively) the quickest way to fill boats from "Californian" (and any "Titanic" boats that would've offloaded and gone back for more people) would've been for people to jump from the lower gangway (or the deck as it got lower) with a boat nearby and crew ready to pull people out of the water. (The water was fatally cold, but I believe that if they were pulled out right away most people could endure it.). The boats from the two ships would perhaps have had time for one offload before "Titanic" sank. Once that happened, all they could do would be to try and rescue as many people from the water as possible. It's uncertain if any survivors in the water could have made it to "Californian" itself. That would depend on how close Captain Lord would try to get to the mass of people. His main concern would be not running down any swimmers or boats. IF he could have gotten close enough, he could have used his cargo booms and nets to try and rescue people from the water.
    Overall, between the lifeboats of both ships (boats from "Titanic" being able to offload and return) and directly pulling people from the water, I think it's realistic that "Californian" arriving could have saved at least 400-500 more people. They might've been able to save more if they had some extra good luck or something, but 400-500 is a reasonable number given the factors.
    However, even if they'd gotten there so late they only saved literally ONE extra person, at least they would have made the effort. Captain Lord would've been regarded as a hero who at least tried to get there. (Nobody would fault him for a good effort that came up short.)
    After the rescue, they still would've required "Carpathia" and perhaps one or two other ships as well ("Mount Temple" and possibly one other). "Californian" was indeed primarily a cargo vessel. They had room for only 47 passengers. What's more, they surely didn't have provisions to provide for over a thousand people they now had on board, for the three or four more days to reach port. They definitely would've had to transfer most survivors over to other (passenger) vessels more able to provide for them. (Liners had more food, linens, beds, doctors on board, etcetera). "Californian" might've kept as many as she could berth and feed until they reached Boston (of course, they'd more likely divert to New York if they other rescue vessels were going there), but others would be transferred as soon as other ships arrived and it was light enough to see what they were doing.
    So, Captain Lord all but certainly wouldn't have been able to get there in time to save everyone who was lost. But, he likely could've saved hundreds more. And, even if he couldn't save anyone extra, if he'd come as soon as they saw rockets and roused Evans he still would've been lauded for making the effort.

  • @longlakeshore
    @longlakeshore 2 года назад +10

    Lord was scapegoated. HIs wireless officer did due diligence and was ignored. Titanic charged full speed into an ice field on a moonless night despite (almost in spite) of repeated ice warnings. Titanic did not carry enough lifeboats for her passengers and crew. Lord had stopped for the night. Had he decided to investigate he would have had to risk his own ship in the ice field traveling to Titanic's position. It was Monday morning quarterbacking to blame him when the fault lay fully on White Star and Captain Smith. If you're going to hold a dead man in contempt it should be Smith--who had also retired for the night.

    • @pearldragon6508
      @pearldragon6508 2 года назад +1

      Monday morning quarterbacking? (Not from USA)

    • @longlakeshore
      @longlakeshore 2 года назад +1

      @@pearldragon6508 Most American football games are played on Sunday. On Mondays a lot of criticism and second guessing of what should have happened in games is debated.

    • @DominionSorcerer
      @DominionSorcerer 2 года назад +1

      The Titanic didn't go full speed into an ice field and Captain Smith took the Titanic a lot further south than the planned route because they'd been warned of ice along it.

    • @longlakeshore
      @longlakeshore 2 года назад +5

      @@DominionSorcerer Smith did not slow. He ignored ice warnings. Other ships in the area stopped for the ice. He didn't.

    • @DominionSorcerer
      @DominionSorcerer 2 года назад

      @@longlakeshore The Titanic wasn't going top speed, it went slower than usual. He didn't ignore ice warnings. The last and most important ice warning wasn't even given to him because the message wasn't labled as MSG.

  • @williamlouie569
    @williamlouie569 2 года назад +3

    Captain Lord : I am going to bed.. Do not disturb me.

  • @tart8228
    @tart8228 Год назад +9

    one thing I've never heard while in this rabbit hole....how far did titanic travel after hitting ice berg? if not far is it really fair to ask california to venture into the ice field that just sunk another ship?

    • @mariamatheson5300
      @mariamatheson5300 Год назад

      Agree.

    • @fmyoung
      @fmyoung 5 месяцев назад +1

      The Carpathia made it safely to the very same ice-infested area by means of a vastly increased number of lookouts

  • @theminingassassin16
    @theminingassassin16 Год назад +2

    It doesn’t matter if Californian could have saved Titanic’s passengers. The fact that the captain didn’t even try is what disgusts me the most.

    • @nicoaf324
      @nicoaf324 Год назад

      Lord was tired it was past midnight he was not going to risk sailing in the ice field and endanger his crew and ship. It was standards operating proced. to turn off the Marconi wireless radio. Capt Lord was actually pretty smart about this and made the right decisions since he didn't have enough to go on. Had E.G. Smith and Titanic crew been using common sense and not wanting to break a Atlantic steam record and endangering thr lives of all aboard, and heeded iceberg warning like they should have, the Titanic would have slowed down and stopped for the night. Would have risked your life your ship and your crew for uncertain lookout reports when it was after dark and you knew the danger out there. The Titanic Capt and Crew are fully to blame for the sinking. Some are in hell for their actions that night

    • @dovetonsturdee7033
      @dovetonsturdee7033 Год назад

      @@nicoaf324 So, because Lord was 'tired' it was too much of an effort for him to have his Marconi operator woken up to check what was the problem with the ship firing rockets? Is that really your opinion?
      Lord didn't have 'enough to go on' because he didn't bother to find out. He did not need to move his ship, he simply needed to switch on his wireless.
      How fortunate that Rostron was not 'too tired' to bother either.

  • @philnorman9425
    @philnorman9425 2 года назад +9

    The first duty of a ships Captain is the safety of his ship and the welfare of his crew (and passengers). In stopping at the edge of the Ice-belt Captain Lord was acting as a Capt. should, furthermore, other shipping was alerted to the ice hazard. Titanic, having been warned chose to proceed, the recklessness of Capt. Smith stands in contrast to the better seamanship of Capt. Lord. (Note: most shipping lines had a standing instruction to their ships not to enter the Ice-belt at night, this why so many surrounding ships on either side of the ice-belt were stopped). The mad dash of the Carpathia although heroic was also desperate and reckless. Still, no one will dare gainsay the heroism of that rescue for fear of rebuke. However, the question must be asked; given the extremely dangerous conditions, what would the public and official sentiment have been had the Carpathia foundered. Had the Carpathia sunk we would now say this was evidence of more bad seamanship. If it had not been for the outrageous and vindictive behaviour of one particular US Senator who was hell-bent on vilifying Captain Lord, his reputation would not have been sullied, then or over subsequent years. Notes: The Marconi Wireless operators on ocean liners at that time were advertised to passengers as a service they could avail themselves of. Their principle function was to the passengers and not to the ship, the fact that the operator passed a message - ice warning - to the Bridge was a courtesy not a duty. Many things were changed in Maritime law after Titanic, wireless became 'ship first'. Life-boats became; one place for each soul on board etc. One thing not mentioned in this particular interpretation of this event, is the commonly held belief put about by the owners of Titanic that she was the first unsinkable ship. This may have led Capt. Smith to act the way his did, willing to suffer some damage in exchange for the Blue Riband, he surely would have won if he'd made it. It also played a part on the Bridge of the Californian. It is a matter of record that for the first hours the Watch crew and Officers thought the Titanic may have been setting off rockets as a celebration. She was after all unsinkable and they knew it, and by the time the seriousness of Titanic's condition became evident it was too late. To start her steam engines and to raise enough 'head of steam' combined with her slow speed would have seen her arrive late, if at all. The first duty of a ships Captain is the safety of his ship and the welfare of his crew (and passengers) this is the law of the sea. Rescue or assistance may be attempted but not at the peril of the aiding ship or vessel or her crew.

  • @junoknobloch3830
    @junoknobloch3830 2 года назад +5

    There was a mirage effect on the ocean that night curving light around the horizon. It's the main theory of why the titanic hit the iceberg. They were seeing a calm sea on the false horizon while the icebergs they were passing close to were hidden from view. The point I'm making is we don't know how close the californian was from titanic

    • @fmyoung
      @fmyoung 5 месяцев назад

      Cpt Lord always said his ship was 19mi away; Robert Ballard maintains she was only 10mi away at the most .

  • @newcarpathia9422
    @newcarpathia9422 2 года назад +9

    In addition to having seen the rockets and the officers thinking that the ship had a big side out of the water, Lord didn't do one simple thing: Wake the wireless officer to find out what's up. No amount of name-clearing by Lord apologists can condone his failure to do that.

    • @MrDaiseymay
      @MrDaiseymay 2 года назад +1

      JUST WATCH ''WAS THE TITANIC, SUNK ON PURPOSE'' and the Californias part, falls neatly into place. Go treat yourself--everybody.

    • @frankmarkovcijr5459
      @frankmarkovcijr5459 2 года назад +1

      Monday morning quarterbacking 110 years after the disaster lacks credibility.

  • @srrealism1530
    @srrealism1530 Год назад +7

    To the Californians defense, they did warn the Titanic about the ice. Twice.

  • @V-max97
    @V-max97 Год назад +1

    This is where the switch conspiracy falls apart. If you are expecting a distress call you stay awake and order your radio operator to stay up also.

  • @TheAwsomeSawse
    @TheAwsomeSawse Год назад +2

    It is a bit strange to me that they would ignore the distress rockets. I understand the wireless operator going to bed and a rescue being a struggle but ignoring all the warning signs is just dense.

  • @garthtimmins2852
    @garthtimmins2852 Год назад +10

    Californian had stopped and shut down her engines for the night. It has been speculated that even if the crew had recognized the situation for what it was, by the time they were able to get up steam and safely navigate through the ice, they might not have arrived before Titanic sank. After the Titanic disaster the maritime rules were changed to require all ships to have at least one wireless operator on duty at all times. I'm glad that I didn't have to decide who was at fault.

    • @mariamatheson5300
      @mariamatheson5300 Год назад

      Good point.

    • @shawnd567
      @shawnd567 5 месяцев назад

      Californian was 20 miles away. Being "shutdown" doesn't mean what you think it does. The boilers are kept running for axillary systems. Just the main propulsion is shut down. They could have easily stoked the boilers and got running within 30 minutes. Given the ice, I'd estimate it would have taken 1.5 hours to get to the Titanic. 2 hours total. The CQD (SOS was sent at 1215, received 1220. So let's say the Californian starts moving at 1230, they would have arrived to see the Titanic sink into the water and start rescuing those in the water.

  • @paulhunter6742
    @paulhunter6742 Год назад +4

    The Californian should at least have awaken Radio Operator and make contact with Titanic. Negligence and just plain being lazy.

  • @tiffanyjo4546
    @tiffanyjo4546 Год назад +4

    I believe they could’ve tried and would’ve made it before the Carpathia, even in the ice field with the smaller crew, and slower vessel. If only they were within a closer distance than the 58 miles away the Carpathia was. I think they truly ignored the distress signals due to the fear of the ice and the previous communication with the titanic.
    Either way, the Carpathia had some truly good crew who risked their lives turning their vessel in the complete opposite direction, navigating through the ice to save people. It’s sad 6 years later it would be subject to a German attack and ultimately sink.

  • @IC82Hillford
    @IC82Hillford Год назад +2

    The Californian literally saw the Titanic, and that not all was well. Yet did nothing. It should have at least tried to help.

    • @fmyoung
      @fmyoung 4 месяца назад

      A small newspaper in Clinton Massachusetts at the time, the Clinton Daily Item, printed a shocking story claiming that the Californian refused to aid the Titanic. The source of the story was her carpenter, James McGregor, who stated that she was close enough to see the Titanic's lights and distress rockets. It was this story, not Ernest Gill's affidavit, that raised the first serious charges against Cpt Lord and his officers .

  • @joqu6971
    @joqu6971 8 месяцев назад +1

    The scrap log book disappeared from the California, they were closer than Lord claimed. Ignoring those rockets and not waking the wireless operator to call the ship in distance firing rockets

  • @AndyHappyGuy
    @AndyHappyGuy 2 года назад +7

    In the end, they still came to assist after finding out that the Titanic had sank. If they knew that those rockets were distress rockets, I'm sure they would've come to their aid sooner.

  • @andrewrobinson8305
    @andrewrobinson8305 2 года назад +5

    What the Californian’s officers were watching on the horizon that night took them by surprise and was a little ambiguous. Strange, but not directly alarming.
    Only in hindsight the next morning did it dawn on them that they’d been witnessing the sinking of the Titanic.

    • @SeattlePioneer
      @SeattlePioneer 2 года назад +3

      Hmmmm. I remember a vaguely similar situation when I was mountain climbing in the Olympic Mountains of Washington State in 1980. My partner and I were nearing the summit of a mountain when we heard a series of dull explosions in the distance. My best guess was that the US Navy was having some kind of gunnery exercise in Hood Canal, 10-15 miles away. When we got to the summit, it was a beautiful day. We could easily see Mt Baker 50 miles away, and Mt Rainier 40 miles away. We couldn't see Mt St Helens because there was an off kind of vertical clouds preventing us from seeing that peak.
      On our way down the trail later in the day, we encountered a person who told us Mt St Helens had exploded. That mountain was 60 miles away from us.
      Some times you just don't know, and your best guess is just plain wrong.

  • @davinp
    @davinp 2 года назад +5

    With all the ice in the area, Californian would have difficulty navigating to Titanic safely

    • @fmyoung
      @fmyoung 5 месяцев назад

      The Carpathia had difficulty too yet she made it safely thanks to a vastly increased number of lookouts

  • @KonradvonHotzendorf
    @KonradvonHotzendorf Год назад +1

    Maybe corporate should have hired more wireless operators to keep a 24 hour watch

  • @Ryan-hl4ur
    @Ryan-hl4ur Год назад +2

    I saw their capt. making all kinds of excuses & how it wouldn't have mattered. I think Titanic passengers would disagree.

  • @keith536
    @keith536 Год назад +3

    Come on people, lets get real. Captain Smith, along with his wireless operators IGNORED multiple ice warnings, even one that came from The Californian. Lord should've thought something was amiss, but you have to blame the Captain of the Titanic and his cocky, smart ass Marconi operators that told The Californian to shut up. And they did... BUT the tragedy of the Titanic and all of the fatal hiccups changed a lot of rules and regulations. Sad it had to happen.

  • @bradfry5403
    @bradfry5403 2 года назад +7

    There was most certainly enough going on around them that they could of least woken Evens up, even when left to look for a missing lifeboat they failed ,as the missing boat was right there and was eventually found a month later.

    • @steverogers8163
      @steverogers8163 2 года назад +5

      It's safe to say that the crew of the California was not the pride of the fleet.

    • @SeattlePioneer
      @SeattlePioneer 2 года назад +1

      >
      They had a responsibility perhaps, to search. They did. The search produced no results.
      Tough. It is not at all an easy task to find a small boat on a very big ocean. Them's the breaks.

  • @icbiceps1
    @icbiceps1 Год назад +3

    The difficulty in judgement is that we are looking at it knowing the history and the outcome. Wireless communications were in their infancy. They were a fun tool to be used by the rich. There were no rules or even guidelines as what to be done. SOS was born that night. So many things to take into consideration. You presented a good case against Captain Lord. But sending up flares in the night also were not standard procedure. Sadly all of these became standard safety protocols. But lifeboats also were to blame. If all the life boats Titanic had were filled (65) the saved lives would have been over 1000. Too many variables to make judgments more than 100 years later. But good work!

  • @rekunta
    @rekunta Год назад +2

    1:19
    Going from Liverpool to Boston is _”eastbound”?_ I’d always figured going from England to America was a westerly journey. 🤔

  • @davinp
    @davinp 2 года назад +2

    The officers on the Californian misinterpreted the color of the rockets Titanic sent out. Also unfortunately, the wireless operator had turned off his wireless for the night and did not get Titanic's distress call. The Captain of the California chose to ignore it

  • @mike-mz6yz
    @mike-mz6yz 2 года назад +5

    thank you so much for this video. I get so tired of people acting like the Californias actions are totally understandable. I mean at a minimum Lord could have asked his radio operator to check if there was any odd chatter before going to bed. He shut off the radio at 11 40 so its not like he would have been in a deep sleep already.
    Heck he might have checked before the distress signals and still not taken action, but that at least I could understand. Him doing nothing at all is inexcusable even if he couldn't have actually helped.

    • @DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY
      @DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY 11 месяцев назад

      Yeah, and even if he was in deep sleep, he still could’ve been awakened to check on the messages the same way the Carpathia’s captain was in deep sleep, but was able to quickly spring into action after he was awakened by his radio operator who just accidentally heard the Titanic’s distress call.

  • @silvertbird1
    @silvertbird1 Год назад +4

    Excellent and reasonable analysis, with which I agree. As you say, simply compare and contrast Californian’s actions with Carpathia’s. There was ample evidence to investigate, and all Capt Lord had to do was awaken the wireless operator and have him to turn on the set. Then they would’ve known the entire story. It’s possible Californian might not have arrived in time to save lives, but they should have made the effort - and now we shall never know.

  • @kittikorn6674
    @kittikorn6674 Год назад +5

    >hey iceberg ahead
    >STFU
    >NOOO WE'RE SINKING HEEELLLPPP

  • @rallytonight8491
    @rallytonight8491 Год назад +2

    It’s silly to say that ALL 2,200 people would have survived if the Californian had made an effort to help, but it’s undeniable more could have been saved if she had.

  • @unknownalien5424
    @unknownalien5424 Год назад +1

    It's a delight to see so many ship experts here talking about the boilers of Californian being cold and thus concluding how it would have taken more time to reach titanic. I mean really? These PoS did not even try even after so many signs. They did not even make radio contact. Whether on not they could have saved more, they did not even try to save any. It seems their sleep was more precious than those poor souls in water. The captain should have been charged with mass manslaughter.