According to some Titanic historians, 2nd Class passengers were invited into 1st Class if a 1st Class passenger knew of someone travelling 2nd Class. There was evidence of a 2nd Class male who spent a large time in the 1st Class Smoking Room playing cards with a 1st Class passenger he knew. So the barriers between 1st and 2nd class was weak compared to the barriers with 3rd class.
@@tallman2210 Alfred Nourney of Cologne. He was from 2nd Class, but when the ship hit the iceberg he was in 1st class smoking room playing cards with William B Greenfield, a New York furrier and Henry Blank as jeweler from New York.
The requirement for strict segregation of third class passengers was at the insistence of the US Immigration. As is noted in the video, 1st and 2nd Class passengers did not have to undergo medical examination on arrival in New York and the immigration authorities did not want these people to have unnecessasary contact with third class passengers who might have an infectious disease (and who would be subsequently denied entry on health grounds to the US). Covid passports aren't really anything new!
thanks for letting me know this i always want to know new stuff about the titanic but all the videos i see i already know about so this was a new fact i learned
The titanic actually had a reputation for having very good 3rd class accommodations and said accommodations were considered by many to be comparable to 2nd class on most other ships.
Not just Titanic. Olympic Class and White Star Line ships in general were known for always being one step ahead in terms of Third Class comfort. They even forbade the booking agents to use the word “steerage.” Clean and comfortable Third Class accommodations were a huge selling point for White Star Line.
Wow, thanks for covering this! 1st and 3rd always get the attention. I imagine that had I been traveling on Titanic (assuming a similar relative income level) I would have been in second class, and therefore I would have been able to put my wife and kids in the boats and…. yeah… I’m glad I wasn’t on that ship!
So true, 1st class and 3rd class always gets attention but 2nd class doesn't probably because the 1st class is the main class it has the most luxurious cabins and accomodations such as dining saloon, reception room, grand staircase, lounge, reading and writing room, cafe parisen, smoking room, etc. 3rd class also gets the attention because most of its passengers are irish, they have interesting culture at music,etc. and also because most 3rd class got trapped in gates while Titanic was rapidly flooding, and also because the famous "Scotland Road" were used by many 3rd class passengers. Also, one of the main reasons why they get attention is because of the 1997 Titanic movie, rose was 1st class and jack was 3rd class. But i agree with you 2nd class also deserves to get attention
it is important to note that life boat boarding was not consistent on both sides of the ship, so you may have made it out alive. One side was boarding all passengers 1st and 2nd class while the other did women and children first. You didn't want to be a 3rd class peasant though.
Actually, most of us would be in third class. The lowest, lowest-paid people would never ever be able to purchase a Titanic ticket. You must not forget that one ticket would be easily 1000-2000 $ (today money second class) for a couple days. Also most of the money back then was divided only into two-class, you either have money or don't. Most people in the third class gave everything, they have for the journey. It is the same like nowadays in airplanes. Which class do you buy on the plane?
By percentage, the 2nd class men had most of the fatalities. Of course, among all the heated arguments over which class was treated the best/worst, everyone forgets that the largest group to die was the crew - all those trimmers, firemen, engineers, cooks, waiters, stewards...
Hi from Toronto Canada. Really enjoyed This video. I think 2nd class had really nice accommodations. They were better than most ships. I agree that 2nd class is not talked about enough. I'm a very big TItanic nerd.Thanks for this.
Hey there Claire, I agree with you 100% - the second class accommodations are the most intriguing and least discussed. Also from Toronto, ALSO a HUGE Titanic Geek! :)
@SA S Hey there fellow Ontarian. I am off to the wineries of the Niagara Region on Sept 17 - and I plan to drink from 11am - 7 pm w/lunch at Queen's Landing somewhere in-between! LOL You raise some good points re the survival rate of the men of all classes and 2nd class bearing the worst case. Very true, the second class gentlemen had the Edwardian etiquette but not necessarily the "wealth and stature" to get into a boat. I've always been really intrigued by the 2nd class on the Olympic class; the dining saloon could seat 564 passengers and yet, they only had two lounges, one of which ladies couldn't use until post WWI. Where did they sit during the day? What did they do? Also the second class promadade space is very limited and the two entranceways to the dining saloon are small (both off the stairwells) so, I often wonder how/where they queued for dinner. In my view, the GREAT CRIME of the TITANIC is that 300 seats in the boats went away half empty. The first and Second officers knew the lifeboat capacity was 1200 ppl, the ship carried 2200 .. yet they allowed them to be lowered with 300 EMPTY seats! CRIMINAL!
My great-great grandmother revisited Wales from the US around 1908 using White Star Line. Our heirlooms are actual White Star 2nd Class menus, stationary and her letters describing the voyage and trip that she mailed back to the local newspaper. Unfortunately I cannot recall the name of the ship but glad she went when she did!
A small detail not covered is that while in first class you would book a stateroom and pay for the number of people in your party; In the 2nd and 3rd classes you were booking your berth (or bunk). Thus if you were traveling solo there was a good chance you would be sharing your cabin with a roommate.
True although 2nd class cabins were not as cramped with bunk beds in the way 3rd class was. You'd usually have one nice sturdy set of bunks, with a sofa/couch on the other side of the room, plus a fairly nice wash basin in the middle. I also heard that if there were not enough 2nd class passengers booking a sailing, they would actually sell 2nd class staterooms as lower end 1st class based on occupancy.
@@kyleenglot9184 I also read somewhere or maybe I was looking at deck plans, but there were some spaces down on the lower decks in the stern that were referred to as "configurable" cabins. The description made it sound like the walls could be moved, kind of like cubicle walls today.
It has come to light recently that the senior Mrs Hart greatly sensationalized her premonitions to the press and Ava Hart , being so young probably reiterated her story. Letters written by the Senior Mrs Hart sent out from Titanic while in Ireland paints a very different picture. In these letters , Mrs Hart never mentions any ominous foreboding tale and instead marvels at the ship and how she was enjoying her days. She had not in fact spend her days asleep and nights awake. This all came into a podcast discussing with famous Titanic historian Don Lynch , and the team from Honor and glory. But , May I say, well done on this video ! Second class is often of ignored , and being a huge a Titanic buff myself , I’m often impressed when learning something new which you have done with the 1st and 2nd interchangeable rooms. I assume that father Browns was a upgraded 2nd ? That would make more sense to me due to the class differences. Captain smith himself was of middle class. I found your video extreme thorough and I’m going to check out your other videos! Cheers from Texas 😊
I don't think I can agree. Eva Hart herself said that her mother stayed up all night. Mrs. Hart probably wrote that telegram to calm her relatives down.
Of all the classes of people on Titanic, Second Class male passengers suffered the second highest mortality rates aa a proportion of the total number after male waiters and cabin stewards. I believe that this was because the second class British men abided by the social norms of their time, knew their place and did not seek to save themselves by taking places in lifeboats.
The priority was "women and children" first. Even John Astor-the richest man on the ship- could not get on a life boat and retired to the gentleman's smoking to die like a gentleman.
@@keldonmcfarland2969 Not quite. Murduck misunderstood the order Women and Children First, as Women and Children only. Lightaller on the other side had more sense. The number of survivors I gave was from the actual roll of names and not based on anything else. I actually went down the list and counted the dead and survivors.
@@PelsckoPolesko The account I read mentioned Murdock, but it could have been wrong. It mentioned that Murdock pulled the gun to control the crowd and possibly shot himself in the end. And I read that version was debunked.
@@Moxiell Murdoch didn't care about that order at all., if no women were available he allowed men in . Lightoller was bad enough to just force them out
LOL speaking of classism, this whole video was riddled with "you can watch my other, better videos if you are a patreon, but to you second and third class RUclips watchers, never mind." OUCH.
Great video as usual. Was always fascinated with Titanic when I was kid and it's nice to rediscover it in more detail through these videos as an adult. Keep up the great work, brother.
Second class travel was upmarket and similar to what is now business class on aircraft. The majority of passengers were of course, third class (equivalent to tourist in an aircraft) and for many of those this would have been considered luxurious compared to the life and homes they had left.
This is the topic I have always wished there was more on. Other than a few pictures and brief mentions we never hear about second class. Second class has always felt easier to identify with since those were the "normal" people, but there's a total dearth of info/content on it, not just on Titanic but the entire body of liner history just about omits it entirely!
Sadly the boring things in life end up getting forgotten. We remember first class for the opulence and luxury, and third class for representing the plight of society’s poorest looking for a new life. First and third are easy to contrast because of how polarized they are. But second class is ‘everyone else’. They aren’t masters of the universe, nor are they someone looking for a better life. They’re the ordinary people.
Thank you for this! I've always been interested in Titanic's Second Class precisely because, as you've stated, the emphasis has generally been on First and Third. And, like many other viewers, I'd have gone Second Class if I were on Titanic. Probably many Second-Class passengers would have traveled First on other, less expensive, ships. What also intrigues me is the fact that some of these passengers would have been more educated and cultured than some of those in First. They'd have included professionals, such as doctors, lawyers, academics, and engineers--what we today would consider white-collar, upper-middle-class professions. Neither the British and the American upper classes placed great value on education in the humanities and sciences, and they wouldn't have needed professions because they didn't need to work. Probably Second Class was where you'd experience the more interesting conversations. I also remember reading somewhere that, of all the passenger categories on board, the one with the highest per capita mortality rate was Second-Class men.
That is an excellent and interesting point about 2nd class being more educated! When one considers that a lot of 1st class passengers got rich by making deals (street smarts), getting tips and having a talent for investments, which does not require a degree or profession
Did anyone notice the thumbnail image had TITANIIC (with a double I) on it? Fantastic, very informative video. I knew almost nothing about the second class facilities until now.
After reading the second class Dinner menu . Some roast spuds with green peas / turnip topped of with spring lamb Finished of with some fresh fruit . Would be fantastic right now .
I have worked on the SS Rotterdam,( 1959) and all dining room chairs have a large metal hook under the seat to tie them down to the dining room floor in case of rough weather. ( thick elastic rubber bands were used in order to keep them in place and safe for the one using it while remain somewhat flexible) And all furniture is "ridiculously" heavy. And a large number of it was bolted to the floor.
Slightly off topic. I don't get why there have been fewer and fewer ocean liners. I mean, cruise ships are ridiculously popular. I think I'd have a panic attack aboard an airplane and fear the height and it falling out of the sky in a fireball. I'd feel more comfortable on a ship making overseas travel.
Thanks for the great content! I've been noticing a lot of airlines adopting a similar allocation of three classes of accommodation - business class, a premium economy class that is actually comfortable, and economy class - with the fewest seats given to the premium economy, or "second" class. I think this goes to show that a true social middle class in the modern Western world is vanishing and we really have regressed to a Robber Baron economy like that at the turn of the 20th century.
This is cool as I do not recall hearing much about the second class of the ship. Imagine how frustrating it must have been to be Mrs. Hart? People who are highly intuitive struggle with knowledge beforehand. In those days it would not have been welcomed and she would have been socially mocked had she told anyone other than her family of her premonition. I hope to see more content. Thank you 🤔🇺🇸❤️
Actually I think they had more respect for psychic phenomena back in the day. If you live in a 200 year old house in England, seeing ghosts is not such a big deal, but everything in America is newer and people are always “freaked out.”
A very good profile of a majorly overlooked aspect of TITANIC history. One thing you didn't mention, is how 2nd class men had the lowest survival rate among the passengers, OR crew - 9 or 10%. Beesley was a VERY lucky man.
@@helenhoward5346 Percentage-wise. Only around 1 out of every 10 male 2nd class passengers found a seat in a lifeboat. Beesley himself would have been among them had he not luckily happened to be in the right place at the right time.
Very Good. Thank You. I have been a Titanic "fan" since I was a child and saw "A Night to Remember". I went to one of the exhibits when it was in Las Vegas a few years ago. Very good commentary and very educational.
Titanic was certainly luxurious for its time, but the Olympic class in general could feel quite Claustrophic at times, with fairly low ceilings. The Lusitania and Mauretania had sought to get past that problem by use of sky lights and, in Lusitania's case, a lighter colour scheme which made it feel more spacious. It wasn't until the Imperator class that the problem was solved. The uptakes to the funnels were split, allowing rooms of much bigger size.
14:40 - 2nd Class Dinner would have been a three course meal, typical to what is served in modern restaurants. The starter was always a soup based dish. The main course had a lot of choice, from fish to lamb to curried chicken etc, which would be served the vegetables. Desert course and then after dinner coffee with fruits, nuts was served. So in a way, a scaled down version of 1st Class dinner.
I think it was more elaborate than that. I think the Haddock shown in the menu was a separate fish course between the soup and the main course. I also suspect that the nuts fruit and cheese would have been in addition to the desert. In fact, when I compared this menu to the First Class menu I was almost tempted to this menu.
@@Ben-xe8ps I read from a Titanic historian that 2nd Class were served a three course meal, so this would mean a soup for a starter, then main course, then desert.
@@johnking5174 Having read something does not necessarily make it so. If you look at the menu the gaps between the soup, fish and main courses imply that they are separate courses.
@@Ben-xe8ps I prefer The second class menu. First class had too many courses. Keep in mind, the women’s stomachs and lungs were squeezed by corsets, making it difficult to eat.
Most of us most definitely wouldn't have been second class passengers. We wouldn't even be likely to be on the Titanic at all. Life was different. Intercontinental travel was so much rarer
Like now, most of us would be third class passengers. Things haven't really changed that much. If you fly, then its 1st class for the very rich, business class for the relatively well off, and for most, it is tourist class.
Everyone is talking about 1st thru 3rd Class, but nobody ever talks about us 4th Class mice who were just trying to get to America, where there are no cats and the streets are made with cheese.
Had a Haitian working for me in my welding shop. We were discussing the titanic one day when he brought up that he was related to a Haitian engineer in 2nd class. Even had the same last name. Laroche.
If I were in Titanic I'd probably travel third class. This is because the third-class tickets were incredibly cheap and even so, Titanic's third class was comfortable even by modern standards. Every passenger had his own berth, the quarters were clean, and the meals hearty, plentiful, and actually pretty tasty. Titanic even had open deck space for third class, which wasn't common in ships at the time.
If I've planned to do only 1 crossing yes, Titanic's 3rd class is where it was at. Instead of large rooms they actually had cabins, a dinner room with good meals, seemed to attract a lot of people as during its maiden voyage it was almost 3/4 full.
I dont see the "problem" with the 1rst and 3rd class difference in acomodation, considering the huge difference in price... also considering that Titanic 3rd class was equivalent to a 2nd class in any other ship, 3rd class offered clean bedsheets, 3 meals a day included in the fair, not to mention smoking room, and 2 common use rooms, as well as some cabins that had wash stand, and they had its communal bathroom were they would actually bathe.... in any other ship, a 3rd class passenger didnt have 3 meals included on the tickerd, nor a tub or bathroom for them to wash, much less a washstand in their cabins, and most of them didnt offer a cabin at all much less bed sheets or even electricity, there were ships with electricity on them but they didnt put it on 3rd class, they had to use oil lamps and bring with them the food for them to eat during the duration of the trip. And before anyone comes saying "but they were locked down to drown"... that shit is fake, that never happened, 3rd class survivors gave account of that.
Due to the present day wealth inequalities, we, the middle class is actually equivalent to the then third class NOT the second class. Yes we would have been confined from the life boats
Out of 1st ,2nd, and 3rd class I wanna learn about 2nd because 1st and 3rd are the ones we know most about no one talks about 2nd it’s the forgotten class. It’s not the poorest of the poor and not the richest of the richest.. To me it’s really interesting.
Great vdo. Everyone always talks about the First and the Third class but the 2nd class was often ignored incl the film Titanic. Thanks for showing us the 2nd Class life.
I must admit, the first time I watched one of your videos...well, anyway. Few days later ran across another one of your productions and...pretty good. Then another...damn that's pretty interesting. Another...this guy knows what he's talking about. Now...I watch em all, they are great. Really fill in a lot of historical gaps in the popularized history of history, such as it is. Great work, I'm liking & subscribing right now! Thanks for the effort, it's quality stuff!
I'm glad you said 'safely' because the reality was that Titanic only had one voyage, and on that, 1st was the only class to travel because that gave you the best chance of survival.
The simpler 1st class cabins with similar design as some of the 2nd class cabins were intended as accommodation for accompanied servants to wealthy 1st class passengers
She was the most beautiful most graceful most majestic object man has ever created and will remain so for all time....wtf happened people!!! Why can't they do this anymore you'd think with time things would become even better but they have not and idc I'm glad Titanic will forever hold that status she deserves it
Some passenger liners were designed with four classes. The Willem Ruys, for example, originally had four classes. Later, when acquired by Flotta Lauro, as the Achille Lauro, second, third and fourth classes were amalgamated into a single Tourist Class. I travelled on the Achille Lauro in 1967, in what had been, originally, a fourth class cabin. Of course all of the public rooms of Tourist Class were available.
The bedroom accomodations for the second class, look comfortable enough. And the dining room, through a little crowded, is not bad, considering one was traveling in a ship. Besides the menu show, for dinner is tasty and enough. unless one is accustomed to special dishes. The video is very interesting. and the dialogue good- Congratulations!
Thank you ! that's so rare that much info about the second class ! I'm curious : what about the music ? Did the band play the same music heard on the 1rst class ?
The separation of human beings , being solely dependent on the size of your pocket book has 'never ended' in this 'modern' world of ours. Extremely sad and it also makes me wonder how advanced as a society of living creatures we are compared to animals.
i never really seen allot about second class it was always either first or third class that was talked about and more pictures, but i was really curious to know more about second class i always tought it was a mix between first and third class which im right. but i would hate being seated next to people i don't know has i hate making conversations with strangers.
If I had been on Titanic I would actually want structure elements as part of my room and I'm not just saying that I think it looks super cool I love old machinery iron plates rivets and shit....badass imo
Enjoyed the video a lot, thank you. One pedantic point if I must - it's accommodation, not accommodations. Same as the plural of vinyl records is vinyl, not vinyls.
i watch a lot of Titanic films on here ,all of them with the same stories and photos ,this is the 1st one with new (new old) pics and stories i did not know except the lady with the premonition
Excellent video! If I may make a video suggestion. I really enjoyed your videos on the coaling and firing process of steam powered ocean liners. In such manner, since your videos are very informative and spot on, I would like to see a video on how steam ships took on water for their boilers. Did they have on board tanks? Take in sea water then have a procedure for desalination if there was one? Did the list of a ship in rolling seas have a effect on how much water was injected into the boilers? Cunard vs White Star etc. Thank you in advance!
Thank you, Randall. I don't know if I could make an entire video on that subject, but I will keep it in mind and possibly write it into the script of another video. Great suggestion!
One of the few 2nd Class passengers Gerard Keane sold his small farm at Gallowshill Cratloe County Clare Ireland and embarked at Cobh Co Cork, note this is where Fr Browne entered the ship and as a amateur photographer took all those iconic interiors shots of the ship, his Bishop was very annoyed that he entered the ship and sailed away with wealthy USA acquaintances, and he sent him a telegram ordering him off the ship at South Hampton. In those days priests obeyed their bishops!!!!!… My home is on the land of the late Gerard Keane land and our boundary stone wall is made from the stone of his farm house 🏡
If you were traveling in Second Class aboard Titanic, where on the ship would you spend most of your time?
Boat Deck
I would be in the library or my cabin
Out on the poop deck waiting for Rose.
My cabin
Leaning over the rail on B deck, heaving my guts out.
According to some Titanic historians, 2nd Class passengers were invited into 1st Class if a 1st Class passenger knew of someone travelling 2nd Class. There was evidence of a 2nd Class male who spent a large time in the 1st Class Smoking Room playing cards with a 1st Class passenger he knew. So the barriers between 1st and 2nd class was weak compared to the barriers with 3rd class.
What was his name?
@@tallman2210 Alfred Nourney of Cologne. He was from 2nd Class, but when the ship hit the iceberg he was in 1st class smoking room playing cards with William B Greenfield, a New York furrier and Henry Blank as jeweler from New York.
The requirement for strict segregation of third class passengers was at the insistence of the US Immigration. As is noted in the video, 1st and 2nd Class passengers did not have to undergo medical examination on arrival in New York and the immigration authorities did not want these people to have unnecessasary contact with third class passengers who might have an infectious disease (and who would be subsequently denied entry on health grounds to the US). Covid passports aren't really anything new!
thanks for letting me know this i always want to know new stuff about the titanic but all the videos i see i already know about so this was a new fact i learned
@Diana H LOL well back then there wasn’t many requirements to immigrate to the USA...
Great video. My great grandaunt was a 2nd class passenger from Ireland. Her name was Nora Keane and she survived the sinking
That is fantastic , how cool!
The titanic actually had a reputation for having very good 3rd class accommodations and said accommodations were considered by many to be comparable to 2nd class on most other ships.
Not just Titanic. Olympic Class and White Star Line ships in general were known for always being one step ahead in terms of Third Class comfort. They even forbade the booking agents to use the word “steerage.” Clean and comfortable Third Class accommodations were a huge selling point for White Star Line.
The poor souls . They had never eaten so well and experienced such accommodation .
I would venture to add that, financially speaking, "most of us" would probably be sailing 3rd class, not 2nd. :)
@@mousetreehouse6833I would argue that fact, if I didn’t agree
Because other ships had only two classes
People only like to hear about extreme wealth or extreme poverty but this video makes the most boring class quite entertaining!
This is the question I’ve been asking since the second grade and no answers for. Thank you for finally revealing it to me
Your narration is spot on, no fluff just a great voice to listen to. Great info and images, Thanks.....
Thank you kindly!
I agree
My wife said that is what she likes about me the fluff on my back
Agreed. This was a little different than most docs, in a good way.
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Wow, thanks for covering this! 1st and 3rd always get the attention. I imagine that had I been traveling on Titanic (assuming a similar relative income level) I would have been in second class, and therefore I would have been able to put my wife and kids in the boats and…. yeah… I’m glad I wasn’t on that ship!
Yep! I agree. 2nd class always gets forgotten.
So true, 1st class and 3rd class always gets attention but 2nd class doesn't probably because the 1st class is the main class it has the most luxurious cabins and accomodations such as dining saloon, reception room, grand staircase, lounge, reading and writing room, cafe parisen, smoking room, etc. 3rd class also gets the attention because most of its passengers are irish, they have interesting culture at music,etc. and also because most 3rd class got trapped in gates while Titanic was rapidly flooding, and also because the famous "Scotland Road" were used by many 3rd class passengers. Also, one of the main reasons why they get attention is because of the 1997 Titanic movie, rose was 1st class and jack was 3rd class. But i agree with you 2nd class also deserves to get attention
it is important to note that life boat boarding was not consistent on both sides of the ship, so you may have made it out alive. One side was boarding all passengers 1st and 2nd class while the other did women and children first. You didn't want to be a 3rd class peasant though.
Actually, most of us would be in third class. The lowest, lowest-paid people would never ever be able to purchase a Titanic ticket. You must not forget that one ticket would be easily 1000-2000 $ (today money second class) for a couple days. Also most of the money back then was divided only into two-class, you either have money or don't. Most people in the third class gave everything, they have for the journey. It is the same like nowadays in airplanes. Which class do you buy on the plane?
By percentage, the 2nd class men had most of the fatalities. Of course, among all the heated arguments over which class was treated the best/worst, everyone forgets that the largest group to die was the crew - all those trimmers, firemen, engineers, cooks, waiters, stewards...
Hi from Toronto Canada. Really enjoyed This video. I think 2nd class had really nice accommodations. They were better than most ships. I agree that 2nd class is not talked about enough. I'm a very big TItanic nerd.Thanks for this.
Hey there Claire, I agree with you 100% - the second class accommodations are the most intriguing and least discussed.
Also from Toronto, ALSO a HUGE Titanic Geek! :)
@SA S Hey there fellow Ontarian. I am off to the wineries of the Niagara Region on Sept 17 - and I plan to drink from 11am - 7 pm w/lunch at Queen's Landing somewhere in-between! LOL
You raise some good points re the survival rate of the men of all classes and 2nd class bearing the worst case. Very true, the second class gentlemen had the Edwardian etiquette but not necessarily the "wealth and stature" to get into a boat.
I've always been really intrigued by the 2nd class on the Olympic class; the dining saloon could seat 564 passengers and yet, they only had two lounges, one of which ladies couldn't use until post WWI.
Where did they sit during the day? What did they do?
Also the second class promadade space is very limited and the two entranceways to the dining saloon are small (both off the stairwells) so, I often wonder how/where they queued for dinner.
In my view, the GREAT CRIME of the TITANIC is that 300 seats in the boats went away half empty. The first and Second officers knew the lifeboat capacity was 1200 ppl, the ship carried 2200 .. yet they allowed them to be lowered with 300 EMPTY seats! CRIMINAL!
I’m in Toronto too 😊
My great-great grandmother revisited Wales from the US around 1908 using White Star Line. Our heirlooms are actual White Star 2nd Class menus, stationary and her letters describing the voyage and trip that she mailed back to the local newspaper. Unfortunately I cannot recall the name of the ship but glad she went when she did!
That is wonderful!
A small detail not covered is that while in first class you would book a stateroom and pay for the number of people in your party; In the 2nd and 3rd classes you were booking your berth (or bunk). Thus if you were traveling solo there was a good chance you would be sharing your cabin with a roommate.
True although 2nd class cabins were not as cramped with bunk beds in the way 3rd class was. You'd usually have one nice sturdy set of bunks, with a sofa/couch on the other side of the room, plus a fairly nice wash basin in the middle. I also heard that if there were not enough 2nd class passengers booking a sailing, they would actually sell 2nd class staterooms as lower end 1st class based on occupancy.
this is still true today -on ferries at least,you book a bed in a 4bed cabin and the rest 3 beds are still booked by other people
@@kyleenglot9184 I also read somewhere or maybe I was looking at deck plans, but there were some spaces down on the lower decks in the stern that were referred to as "configurable" cabins. The description made it sound like the walls could be moved, kind of like cubicle walls today.
It has come to light recently that the senior Mrs Hart greatly sensationalized her premonitions to the press and Ava Hart , being so young probably reiterated her story. Letters written by the Senior Mrs Hart sent out from Titanic while in Ireland paints a very different picture. In these letters , Mrs Hart never mentions any ominous foreboding tale and instead marvels at the ship and how she was enjoying her days. She had not in fact spend her days asleep and nights awake. This all came into a podcast discussing with famous Titanic historian Don Lynch , and the team from Honor and glory. But , May I say, well done on this video ! Second class is often of ignored , and being a huge a Titanic buff myself , I’m often impressed when learning something new which you have done with the 1st and 2nd interchangeable rooms. I assume that father Browns was a upgraded 2nd ? That would make more sense to me due to the class differences. Captain smith himself was of middle class. I found your video extreme thorough and I’m going to check out your other videos! Cheers from Texas 😊
I don't think I can agree. Eva Hart herself said that her mother stayed up all night.
Mrs. Hart probably wrote that telegram to calm her relatives down.
Excellent topic. I am so glad someone is covering this often overlooked portion of the Olympic Class liners.
My Great Great Grandfather Travelled second class on the ship and went down with it whilst his daughter survived and became my great grandma.
I'm sorry for your great great Grandfather.
Gratitude! Enjoyed every minute of this presentation and learned much more about the second class accommodations!
Of all the classes of people on Titanic, Second Class male passengers suffered the second highest mortality rates aa a proportion of the total number after male waiters and cabin stewards. I believe that this was because the second class British men abided by the social norms of their time, knew their place and did not seek to save themselves by taking places in lifeboats.
The priority was "women and children" first. Even John Astor-the richest man on the ship- could not get on a life boat and retired to the gentleman's smoking to die like a gentleman.
@@keldonmcfarland2969 Not quite. Murduck misunderstood the order Women and Children First, as Women and Children only. Lightaller on the other side had more sense. The number of survivors I gave was from the actual roll of names and not based on anything else. I actually went down the list and counted the dead and survivors.
@@Moxiell you mixed them up, it was Lightoller who mistook it as Only.
@@PelsckoPolesko The account I read mentioned Murdock, but it could have been wrong. It mentioned that Murdock pulled the gun to control the crowd and possibly shot himself in the end. And I read that version was debunked.
@@Moxiell Murdoch didn't care about that order at all., if no women were available he allowed men in . Lightoller was bad enough to just force them out
"Both trains experienced delays".
Ah. So British Railways haven't changed much.
Yes of course it has, they weren't replaced with busses.
You have caused confusion and delay
The second class always interested me and was never talked about, thank you for this video!
This was very well done. Very informative and "spot on." It's too bad the format was interrupted by ads at odd times instead of at natural breaks.
Thank you for this, it was so well done. Seems like the first and third class get a lot the focus, but this was really unique. ❤
Yes, this was very interesting indeed !!
not a lot of people pay attention to this class, good job!
I’m so glad there is this channel to answer questions we have been frustrated by not finding the answer to anywhere else!!
Great job guys!! 👍
Does not look bad at all.
How many days did passengers enjoy b4 iceberg.
Similar to Esther Hart,Andrea Doria survivor Lilliana Dooner had premonitions about being on a rescue ship,the Cape Ann,before the collision.
Very interesting to have an insight of the Titanic. It is still, to this day, a fascinating topic.
LOL speaking of classism, this whole video was riddled with "you can watch my other, better videos if you are a patreon, but to you second and third class RUclips watchers, never mind." OUCH.
Great video as usual. Was always fascinated with Titanic when I was kid and it's nice to rediscover it in more detail through these videos as an adult. Keep up the great work, brother.
@0:55 that picture of the Laroche family is great. I noticed that the daughter has the same exact right eyebrow raise as her dad....
Second class travel was upmarket and similar to what is now business class on aircraft. The majority of passengers were of course, third class (equivalent to tourist in an aircraft) and for many of those this would have been considered luxurious compared to the life and homes they had left.
This is the topic I have always wished there was more on. Other than a few pictures and brief mentions we never hear about second class. Second class has always felt easier to identify with since those were the "normal" people, but there's a total dearth of info/content on it, not just on Titanic but the entire body of liner history just about omits it entirely!
A death of information always irritates me.
Sadly the boring things in life end up getting forgotten. We remember first class for the opulence and luxury, and third class for representing the plight of society’s poorest looking for a new life. First and third are easy to contrast because of how polarized they are. But second class is ‘everyone else’. They aren’t masters of the universe, nor are they someone looking for a better life. They’re the ordinary people.
Thank you for this! I've always been interested in Titanic's Second Class precisely because, as you've stated, the emphasis has generally been on First and Third. And, like many other viewers, I'd have gone Second Class if I were on Titanic. Probably many Second-Class passengers would have traveled First on other, less expensive, ships. What also intrigues me is the fact that some of these passengers would have been more educated and cultured than some of those in First. They'd have included professionals, such as doctors, lawyers, academics, and engineers--what we today would consider white-collar, upper-middle-class professions. Neither the British and the American upper classes placed great value on education in the humanities and sciences, and they wouldn't have needed professions because they didn't need to work. Probably Second Class was where you'd experience the more interesting conversations. I also remember reading somewhere that, of all the passenger categories on board, the one with the highest per capita mortality rate was Second-Class men.
That is an excellent and interesting point about 2nd class being more educated! When one considers that a lot of 1st class passengers got rich by making deals (street smarts), getting tips and having a talent for investments, which does not require a degree or profession
Did anyone notice the thumbnail image had TITANIIC (with a double I) on it?
Fantastic, very informative video. I knew almost nothing about the second class facilities until now.
After reading the second class Dinner menu . Some roast spuds with green peas / turnip topped of with spring lamb Finished of with some fresh fruit . Would be fantastic right now .
I have worked on the SS Rotterdam,( 1959) and all dining room chairs have a large metal hook under the seat to tie them down to the dining room floor in case of rough weather. ( thick elastic rubber bands were used in order to keep them in place and safe for the one using it while remain somewhat flexible) And all furniture is "ridiculously" heavy. And a large number of it was bolted to the floor.
Great video! We hear so much about first and third class. Little is known about second class.
What a great topic. I have always wanted to know about Second Class on Titanic. You only ever hear about steerage and FIrst Class.
Love the ship animation, Red lines ect.
Great Video - I often say that it is the 2nd class section of the ship which is least known yet probably most interesting.
Slightly off topic. I don't get why there have been fewer and fewer ocean liners. I mean, cruise ships are ridiculously popular. I think I'd have a panic attack aboard an airplane and fear the height and it falling out of the sky in a fireball. I'd feel more comfortable on a ship making overseas travel.
Watched and enjoyed from Nova Scotia Canada 🇨🇦, home of many gravesites of unfortunate passengers who perished at sea on that fateful night.
So honored to be one of the first million viewers!
Thanks for the great content! I've been noticing a lot of airlines adopting a similar allocation of three classes of accommodation - business class, a premium economy class that is actually comfortable, and economy class - with the fewest seats given to the premium economy, or "second" class. I think this goes to show that a true social middle class in the modern Western world is vanishing and we really have regressed to a Robber Baron economy like that at the turn of the 20th century.
This is cool as I do not recall hearing much about the second class of the ship. Imagine how frustrating it must have been to be Mrs. Hart? People who are highly intuitive struggle with knowledge beforehand. In those days it would not have been welcomed and she would have been socially mocked had she told anyone other than her family of her premonition. I hope to see more content. Thank you 🤔🇺🇸❤️
Actually I think they had more respect for psychic phenomena back in the day. If you live in a 200 year old house in England, seeing ghosts is not such a big deal, but everything in America is newer and people are always “freaked out.”
A very good profile of a majorly overlooked aspect of TITANIC history.
One thing you didn't mention, is how 2nd class men had the lowest survival rate among the passengers, OR crew - 9 or 10%. Beesley was a VERY lucky man.
Crazy stuff. Are you talking about percentage wise? I'm sure it's very high but it'd be interesting to see the demographics of survivors and victims.
@@helenhoward5346 Percentage-wise. Only around 1 out of every 10 male 2nd class passengers found a seat in a lifeboat. Beesley himself would have been among them had he not luckily happened to be in the right place at the right time.
Very Good. Thank You. I have been a Titanic "fan" since I was a child and saw "A Night to Remember". I went to one of the exhibits when it was in Las Vegas a few years ago. Very good commentary and very educational.
Same! I went to the exhibit for my birthday when I lived in Vegas, I’ve been fascinated with the Titanic since I was a kid
I saw that exhibition as well. It was so creepy, as they even replicated the cold!
@@ColtraneAndRain That was really interesting and unique. "Cool" pun intended
@tim tucker I remember reading Night.. back in 7th grade, so I would have been...13, so 1968 (?). And I was hooked.
A Night To Remember is a brilliant movie.
Thank uou for covering the 2nd class accomodations. It's high time this get covered
You* you must have went to a democRAT school
That £38 fee to get upgraded to first class is over 6 thousand dollars in today's money ;-;
I don’t know? Isn’t it closer to $1,000? Still a lot of money
I just looked it up at and i turns out its £4,452,34 in todays money.
@@tallbeard7111 not bad when you consider how luxury it was.
Thanks
Well the most expensive suite aboard Titanic was $100k in today's money* I believe.
*Added clarification
Titanic was certainly luxurious for its time, but the Olympic class in general could feel quite Claustrophic at times, with fairly low ceilings. The Lusitania and Mauretania had sought to get past that problem by use of sky lights and, in Lusitania's case, a lighter colour scheme which made it feel more spacious. It wasn't until the Imperator class that the problem was solved. The uptakes to the funnels were split, allowing rooms of much bigger size.
14:20 making long time friends on the Titanic seems like a bit of gamble in hindsight
14:40 - 2nd Class Dinner would have been a three course meal, typical to what is served in modern restaurants. The starter was always a soup based dish. The main course had a lot of choice, from fish to lamb to curried chicken etc, which would be served the vegetables. Desert course and then after dinner coffee with fruits, nuts was served. So in a way, a scaled down version of 1st Class dinner.
I think it was more elaborate than that. I think the Haddock shown in the menu was a separate fish course between the soup and the main course. I also suspect that the nuts fruit and cheese would have been in addition to the desert. In fact, when I compared this menu to the First Class menu I was almost tempted to this menu.
@@Ben-xe8ps I read from a Titanic historian that 2nd Class were served a three course meal, so this would mean a soup for a starter, then main course, then desert.
@@Ben-xe8ps 2nd Class food tended to avoid french cuisine unlike 1st Class who enjoyed a lot of french cuisine.
@@johnking5174 Having read something does not necessarily make it so. If you look at the menu the gaps between the soup, fish and main courses imply that they are separate courses.
@@Ben-xe8ps I prefer The second class menu. First class had too many courses. Keep in mind, the women’s stomachs and lungs were squeezed by corsets, making it difficult to eat.
There should be a movie focusing more on the 2nd class passengers.
I think Eva Hart's story is pretty interesting.
SOS Titanic does
@@davidpar2 Oh cool, I haven't actually seen S.O.S Titanic.
Most of us most definitely wouldn't have been second class passengers. We wouldn't even be likely to be on the Titanic at all. Life was different. Intercontinental travel was so much rarer
Like now, most of us would be third class passengers. Things haven't really changed that much. If you fly, then its 1st class for the very rich, business class for the relatively well off, and for most, it is tourist class.
Absolutely fascinating and so well done! Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Everyone is talking about 1st thru 3rd Class, but nobody ever talks about us 4th Class mice who were just trying to get to America, where there are no cats and the streets are made with cheese.
Nice reference.
By the way, Titanic had a ship's cat! She didn't survive 🙁
Had a Haitian working for me in my welding shop. We were discussing the titanic one day when he brought up that he was related to a Haitian engineer in 2nd class. Even had the same last name. Laroche.
2nd class men had the lowest survival rate while 2nd class women had a very high survival rate.
Honestly, I would rather 2nd class than 1st class because I just feel more comfortable as your not high or low. you’ve probably once had this felling.
Thank you for the shout out Grat Big Move!!!
You bet
If I were in Titanic I'd probably travel third class.
This is because the third-class tickets were incredibly cheap and even so, Titanic's third class was comfortable even by modern standards. Every passenger had his own berth, the quarters were clean, and the meals hearty, plentiful, and actually pretty tasty. Titanic even had open deck space for third class, which wasn't common in ships at the time.
What
@@Angelaaa1015 What was posted is pretty accurate.
If I've planned to do only 1 crossing yes, Titanic's 3rd class is where it was at. Instead of large rooms they actually had cabins, a dinner room with good meals, seemed to attract a lot of people as during its maiden voyage it was almost 3/4 full.
Thank you. I hope i get to see the video about the bathrooms some day.
every time you said second class it felt like a jab hahaha awesome analysis thank you, introduced me to a fascinating new subject
I dont see the "problem" with the 1rst and 3rd class difference in acomodation, considering the huge difference in price... also considering that Titanic 3rd class was equivalent to a 2nd class in any other ship, 3rd class offered clean bedsheets, 3 meals a day included in the fair, not to mention smoking room, and 2 common use rooms, as well as some cabins that had wash stand, and they had its communal bathroom were they would actually bathe.... in any other ship, a 3rd class passenger didnt have 3 meals included on the tickerd, nor a tub or bathroom for them to wash, much less a washstand in their cabins, and most of them didnt offer a cabin at all much less bed sheets or even electricity, there were ships with electricity on them but they didnt put it on 3rd class, they had to use oil lamps and bring with them the food for them to eat during the duration of the trip. And before anyone comes saying "but they were locked down to drown"... that shit is fake, that never happened, 3rd class survivors gave account of that.
Due to the present day wealth inequalities, we, the middle class is actually equivalent to the then third class NOT the second class. Yes we would have been confined from the life boats
It's a complex discussion but there is some truth to what you are saying.
Out of 1st ,2nd, and 3rd class I wanna learn about 2nd because 1st and 3rd are the ones we know most about no one talks about 2nd it’s the forgotten class. It’s not the poorest of the poor and not the richest of the richest.. To me it’s really interesting.
This video is actually genuinely underated and damm
6:44 '... being off-limit...'
Jack: 😏
FANTASTIC video, what an awesome overview
Very good indeed - never thought about this until now. Thank you.
Great vdo. Everyone always talks about the First and the Third class but the 2nd class was often ignored incl the film Titanic. Thanks for showing us the 2nd Class life.
I must admit, the first time I watched one of your videos...well, anyway. Few days later ran across another one of your productions and...pretty good. Then another...damn that's pretty interesting. Another...this guy knows what he's talking about. Now...I watch em all, they are great. Really fill in a lot of historical gaps in the popularized history of history, such as it is. Great work, I'm liking & subscribing right now! Thanks for the effort, it's quality stuff!
Thank you! That means a lot.
@@TheGreatBigMove 👍👍
I was waiting a long time someone explaining the second class
Another great video, never dissapointed with your work!
Thank you!
Excellent video! I had never seen some of those pictures before.
Todal AWESOME!!!! LOVE ALL THE PICTURES AND OLD MOVIES!!!!
I'm glad you said 'safely' because the reality was that Titanic only had one voyage, and on that, 1st was the only class to travel because that gave you the best chance of survival.
Been a member of Fox Star Line since he started it. Great group of people!
The simpler 1st class cabins with similar design as some of the 2nd class cabins were intended as accommodation for accompanied servants to wealthy 1st class passengers
Is it just me or does he sound more energetic than usual 😅
She was the most beautiful most graceful most majestic object man has ever created and will remain so for all time....wtf happened people!!! Why can't they do this anymore you'd think with time things would become even better but they have not and idc I'm glad Titanic will forever hold that status she deserves it
Some passenger liners were designed with four classes. The Willem Ruys, for example, originally had four classes. Later, when acquired by Flotta Lauro, as the Achille Lauro, second, third and fourth classes were amalgamated into a single Tourist Class. I travelled on the Achille Lauro in 1967, in what had been, originally, a fourth class cabin. Of course all of the public rooms of Tourist Class were available.
2nd class has allways interested me, shame most people would only recognise 1st and 3rd.
The bedroom accomodations for the second class, look comfortable enough. And the dining room, through a little crowded, is not bad, considering one was traveling in a ship. Besides the menu show, for dinner is tasty and enough. unless one is accustomed to special dishes. The video is very interesting. and the dialogue good- Congratulations!
Thank you ! that's so rare that much info about the second class ! I'm curious : what about the music ? Did the band play the same music heard on the 1rst class ?
Stumbled across your channel today and I subbed before this video was complete. I look forward to seeing more!
I’m happy there was no music in the background!
The separation of human beings , being solely dependent on the size of your pocket book has 'never ended' in this 'modern' world of ours. Extremely sad and it also makes me wonder how advanced as a society of living creatures we are compared to animals.
to be fair, most of the class segregation was actually for health and safety purposes.
Thank you for going over my favorite class, it needs more attention. It is perfect accomodation for a fellow like me
Amazing job! Thanks for the consistently awesome content!
Glad you enjoy it!
i never really seen allot about second class it was always either first or third class that was talked about and more pictures, but i was really curious to know more about second class i always tought it was a mix between first and third class which im right. but i would hate being seated next to people i don't know has i hate making conversations with strangers.
No one forces you to have a conversation. Stay silent.
Maybe you’re just awkward around strangers .
If I had been on Titanic I would actually want structure elements as part of my room and I'm not just saying that I think it looks super cool I love old machinery iron plates rivets and shit....badass imo
Idk how this information will benefit me in the future but I watched the whole thing anyways
it shall slowly drag you deeper and deeper into Titanic lore and the Titanic community…
and once you’ve been dragged, you can never go back…
;)
Enjoyed the video a lot, thank you. One pedantic point if I must - it's accommodation, not accommodations. Same as the plural of vinyl records is vinyl, not vinyls.
Awesome video. I love the images, so interesting. Thank you so much. I love ocean ocean liners. ❤️
i watch a lot of Titanic films on here ,all of them with the same stories and photos ,this is the 1st one with new (new old) pics and stories i did not know except the lady with the premonition
Excellent video! If I may make a video suggestion. I really enjoyed your videos on the coaling and firing process of steam powered ocean liners. In such manner, since your videos are very informative and spot on, I would like to see a video on how steam ships took on water for their boilers. Did they have on board tanks? Take in sea water then have a procedure for desalination if there was one? Did the list of a ship in rolling seas have a effect on how much water was injected into the boilers? Cunard vs White Star etc. Thank you in advance!
Thank you, Randall. I don't know if I could make an entire video on that subject, but I will keep it in mind and possibly write it into the script of another video. Great suggestion!
Great video! Would love to hear your analysis on First & Third classes
Wow, well researched!!
Great video. Like others said, spot on narration and editing. Subscribed for sure ⭐
One of the few 2nd Class passengers Gerard Keane sold his small farm at Gallowshill Cratloe County Clare Ireland and embarked at Cobh Co Cork, note this is where Fr Browne entered the ship and as a amateur photographer took all those iconic interiors shots of the ship, his Bishop was very annoyed that he entered the ship and sailed away with wealthy USA acquaintances, and he sent him a telegram ordering him off the ship at South Hampton. In those days priests obeyed their bishops!!!!!… My home is on the land of the late Gerard Keane land and our boundary stone wall is made from the stone of his farm house 🏡
Third class was actually good for 3rd class. Its said they slept better and ate better then they would have done at home.
Thank you for this!