The watch market is dead 💀 Juan from Opus Time talked about this on his channel. The CPO program is a museum for used Rolex watches. None of those watches are selling. Most of the transactions are between flippers and grey market dealers.
In Denmark there are several Rolex scandals ongoing now. The market is so inflated now, everyone want to sell Rolex. Rolexes from the 80s for fucking 6-13.000£ 😂 some of them look absolute terrible condition. I’m sticking to Tudor and Omega. I can get them for 5-20% off retail price . Which is a realistic price. Rolex have some great watches and they look beautiful. But man it’s such a shady market in everywhere and any country. Not worth it.
I ended up going grey yesterday for a sub date. Couldn’t be bothered with the AD games anymore. The price of subs has dropped to a point where I don’t mind paying the small premium to get one. In absolutely no way would I ever think of buying from CPO.
@@rossi1878I got mine from Trilogy Jewellers in Hatton Garden. Fair prices and a great service. Being able to just walk in to a store and walk out with the watch you want is a nice feeling in today’s market. Forget about the ADs mate. They are too busy feeding their VIPs and making us regular customers wait years to spend thousands of pound at their store. It’s a joke.
Can source one for one fairly easily, they’re not a huge premium now but if you want new from AD go for the non date im well informed waiting time in those is only in weeks not months
I was in a 1916 Company Rolex AD recently. They wanted $34,000 (USD) for a 126710 Pepsi. You can get one from Bob's Watches for around $22,000 right now. CPO pricing is nuts when the only premium they offer is what you could get yourself for $800 by buying a Rolex elsewhere and sending it to Rolex for a full service. The only downside is you have to wait 4-8 weeks for it to come back from service.
No chance that the pre owned system will sustain. At some point they have to realise that the grey market will see far more sales than any pre owned program. People spending money always do research and they’re going to be left holding the bag at some point when they aren’t shifting units. I don’t think there’s a chance in hell of Rolex controlling the grey market pricing. Margins alone will see it fall apart. It’s almost like they’re trying to put people off using the AD’s on both new and used. What a shambles.
Agree the prices are high on CPO, but do all people really do research? There are a lot of uneducated buyers out there that either don’t know or don’t care. My AD told me the CPO is slow, but people are buying. Personally, I think grey dealers are a rip off too. Much better deals to be found on places like Moda or the reditt watch exchange. Yes, they may technically be grey dealers but not like those on RUclips or with brick and mortar stores.
nkuwan You are so well-informed about luxury watches. You've obviously done your due diligence and the comparison to the US is very informative...because of course, I live in New York. thank you very much
Vinny, I live in the US, and have no idea why the AD’s think the CPO program can command substantial premiums over new Rolex models. I did want to ask if AD’s will negotiate CPO pricing, or do they stand firm on their CPO prices?
I had a look at a 116713LN the weekend, it was at goldsmiths in the CPO program, the bezel was over polished and had a lot of play in it, and they wanted 15k 🤣🤣
I have my r serial 16610 which I have owned for seventeen years; purchased pre-owned of course, The Rolex thing doesn't bother me as I despise the maxi case; ruined the lines of the sub'
Good informative video as ever Vinny👍 so, if the CPO prices are higher - what kind of prices are they offering for our watches - are the offers coming in higher than a grey market dealer?🧐
Fantastic video Vinny. I can only assume that the Rolex CPO programme is aimed at consumers who arent savvy about the way the grey market works and are prepared to over-pay for the apparent safety blanket of buying directly from Rolex. I would buy from and sell to a trusted grey dealer every day of the week vs deal with Rolex CPO - but I am clued up on the market!
well this is unknown to me but would sure make for an interesting analysis, i’ll do some research, I think they will be paying a lot less than greys do
Hey Vinny , very good video . I can do better editing in your videos which can help you to get more engagement in your videos . Pls lmk what do you think ?
Is it worth paying the grey market prices or do you think the prices will continue to drop this year? The Pepsi gmt on the grey market is literally double the price at the moment.
Keep well away i would say for a while from the pepsi, there’s so many other much cheaper gmt alternatives in the Rolex lineup, batmans can be found for under 12k now
Great content as always Vinny👊🏻👊🏻 I think your best point is the fact that they can pull your pants down if you absolutely want to walk out of the shop that day with one on your wrist. They tried to make this about “peace of mind” when it’s just an added level of control and taking advantage
Thanks man! and sure i think there’s a long way to go before we can say prices are fair, I will do this video again in a couple of months to see if there’s any change
This is what Rolex should do, make it almost like leasing a car: ‘we will sell you the steel sports watch you want as long as you agree to trade it in in great condition in 3 yrs; you’ll get priority for whatever model you want at that time.’
Great info as usual. I can't see CPO succeeding long term unless it settles at around 10% above grey market which itself remains too high IMO. That would be reasonable, especially with older watches which are most likely to be frankened. Funny that WOS are asking such high prices for used Rolex when they are discounting other brands like crazy as are many other UK retailers. I recently bought a Zenith 384 chrono freely advertised in a WOS sale at 45% discount. The "crash" is over but I see all prices (Rolex included) trending down for the foreseeable future
People say the market is dead but I’m in Mayors every other week and people are always buying ROLEX. It’s alive and well, it’s just a new time and we are sorting out the prices post pandemic.
I reckon alot of the grey market dealers will use the CPO to up their prices and push the market, you know because their honest and customers come 1st lol
Great job - and please do these videos every month or 2. I think we all knew this program would be a joke… and we haven’t been proven wrong. And 💯 - Rolex for all the talk about ‘watches are to be enjoyed, not treated as assets’ (recent CEO interview) they LOVE the free publicity and agree they are playing games with the Daytonas and GMT allotments to keep resale prices high. If they were serious about getting a better cut of the grey market money they could just raise the new prices which would shake out much of the grey dealers; Rolex would make more money and the watch enthusiasts would be happier.
the Rolex CPO initiative was always designed to deal with the problems associated with the grey market and price escalation and the higher prices was also understood. It is going to be interesting as Rolex moves further into the higher end space. Rolex are super watches but I do think the prices are too high and in my opinion we will continue to see a price correction.
agree with you concerning CPO's intentions, i think Rolex also looked at the money grey dealers were making and thinking what the hell is going on here, these guys are making more than us? we want a piece of that cake!
Buying a CPO watch can enhance your chances of purchasing other watches at retail price. Previously, individuals often purchased watches they did not desire simply to be added to a retailer's preferred customer list. Now, they can select the watches they genuinely want, pay a premium for them, and improve their likelihood of obtaining their preferred models at retail prices from their AD.
@@mahmoudghoneim8004 great point! id rather have the original unpolished piece with scratches any day! Thats a drawback of the program for real enthusiasts
The watch market is dead 💀 Juan from Opus Time talked about this on his channel. The CPO program is a museum for used Rolex watches. None of those watches are selling. Most of the transactions are between flippers and grey market dealers.
Bingo. In Denmark it’s a shit show atm, yet so many try to sell their Rolex for dumb prices
The watch market is dead, drop drop drop a little more
Floating face-down in a backyard pool
We are talking about used.... slider condition material watches in this channel 🤣😅😂
The greys likey hate that guy to shreds 😂love Jaun and “keno “
In Denmark there are several Rolex scandals ongoing now.
The market is so inflated now, everyone want to sell Rolex. Rolexes from the 80s for fucking 6-13.000£ 😂 some of them look absolute terrible condition.
I’m sticking to Tudor and Omega. I can get them for 5-20% off retail price . Which is a realistic price.
Rolex have some great watches and they look beautiful. But man it’s such a shady market in everywhere and any country. Not worth it.
I ended up going grey yesterday for a sub date. Couldn’t be bothered with the AD games anymore. The price of subs has dropped to a point where I don’t mind paying the small premium to get one. In absolutely no way would I ever think of buying from CPO.
Can I ask which grey market dealer you bought from bud? In the market for one myself. Seemingly no chance of obtaining one from AD.
@@rossi1878I got mine from Trilogy Jewellers in Hatton Garden. Fair prices and a great service. Being able to just walk in to a store and walk out with the watch you want is a nice feeling in today’s market. Forget about the ADs mate. They are too busy feeding their VIPs and making us regular customers wait years to spend thousands of pound at their store. It’s a joke.
Yeah I have come to same conclusion, 10% premium I can handle.
Can source one for one fairly easily, they’re not a huge premium now but if you want new from AD go for the non date im well informed waiting time in those is only in weeks not months
If the no date waiting list was only weeks then why are there so few on the grey market dealers like that Honest Watch Dealer?
I was in a 1916 Company Rolex AD recently. They wanted $34,000 (USD) for a 126710 Pepsi. You can get one from Bob's Watches for around $22,000 right now. CPO pricing is nuts when the only premium they offer is what you could get yourself for $800 by buying a Rolex elsewhere and sending it to Rolex for a full service. The only downside is you have to wait 4-8 weeks for it to come back from service.
No chance that the pre owned system will sustain. At some point they have to realise that the grey market will see far more sales than any pre owned program. People spending money always do research and they’re going to be left holding the bag at some point when they aren’t shifting units. I don’t think there’s a chance in hell of Rolex controlling the grey market pricing. Margins alone will see it fall apart. It’s almost like they’re trying to put people off using the AD’s on both new and used. What a shambles.
Agree the prices are high on CPO, but do all people really do research? There are a lot of uneducated buyers out there that either don’t know or don’t care. My AD told me the CPO is slow, but people are buying. Personally, I think grey dealers are a rip off too. Much better deals to be found on places like Moda or the reditt watch exchange. Yes, they may technically be grey dealers but not like those on RUclips or with brick and mortar stores.
nkuwan You are so well-informed about luxury watches. You've obviously done your due diligence and the comparison to the US is very informative...because of course, I live in New York. thank you very much
Everyone keeps saying the watch market is dead but the prices aren't 😂
Vinny, I live in the US, and have no idea why the AD’s think the CPO program can command substantial premiums over new Rolex models. I did want to ask if AD’s will negotiate CPO pricing, or do they stand firm on their CPO prices?
absolutely not, they would not want to engage in haggling as it is seen as ‘dirty’, in the UK haggling is a dying art anyway now sadly
I had a look at a 116713LN the weekend, it was at goldsmiths in the CPO program, the bezel was over polished and had a lot of play in it, and they wanted 15k 🤣🤣
Damn not great, i have to say from what i’ve seen i thought their finishing wasn’t bad so that’s interesting to hear!
I have my r serial 16610 which I have owned for seventeen years; purchased pre-owned of course, The Rolex thing doesn't bother me as I despise the maxi case; ruined the lines of the sub'
I went to one and asked about a black 40mm Explorer II. They wanted 11.5k usd, can be found all day long for 7k, 40%!!
The Muppet boiler room secondary watch market is dead
KEEENOOOO
unbelievable?
@@vinnyfranciswatches but true!
How much do Boucher, torneau etc offer the owner for their watches compared to what the gray market would buy them from you for?
Just found you on my feed. Subscribed immediately. Keeping it real.
Thanks for subbing and welcome, please do look back at some of our previous videos as you may find something similarly interesting, cheers
Vinny’s Videos Are Always Great. 👍
Thanks very kind, keep up the good work too!
Cpo sends them out to be “authenticated and serviced” also pretty sure they offer a warranty as well.
Complete overhaul aswell , and they only accept 4/5 condition most watches get turned down due to heavy wear or visible damage
I believe it’s only 2 yrs. Not like buying a new model.
They wanted 28k for an early 2000s Coke at the AD. They must be out of the mind. There were literally chunks of the case missing.
Good informative video as ever Vinny👍 so, if the CPO prices are higher - what kind of prices are they offering for our watches - are the offers coming in higher than a grey market dealer?🧐
thanks a lot! honestly i think they’d be paying even less, but maybe that’s for another video, thanks for the idea!!
Fantastic video Vinny. I can only assume that the Rolex CPO programme is aimed at consumers who arent savvy about the way the grey market works and are prepared to over-pay for the apparent safety blanket of buying directly from Rolex. I would buy from and sell to a trusted grey dealer every day of the week vs deal with Rolex CPO - but I am clued up on the market!
Thanks and there’s are many people who really like CPO though i won’t lie so i think it’s here to stay
So I’m guessing the CPO will be offering a considerable more than the grey market when selling?
well this is unknown to me but would sure make for an interesting analysis, i’ll do some research, I think they will be paying a lot less than greys do
Hey Vinny , very good video . I can do better editing in your videos which can help you to get more engagement in your videos . Pls lmk what do you think ?
Is it worth paying the grey market prices or do you think the prices will continue to drop this year? The Pepsi gmt on the grey market is literally double the price at the moment.
Keep well away i would say for a while from the pepsi, there’s so many other much cheaper gmt alternatives in the Rolex lineup, batmans can be found for under 12k now
@@vinnyfranciswatchesis that including VAT? Been looking in the us market and it seems higher than that plus sales tax.
Great content as always Vinny👊🏻👊🏻 I think your best point is the fact that they can pull your pants down if you absolutely want to walk out of the shop that day with one on your wrist. They tried to make this about “peace of mind” when it’s just an added level of control and taking advantage
Thanks man! and sure i think there’s a long way to go before we can say prices are fair, I will do this video again in a couple of months to see if there’s any change
Great review of this rather crazy strategy. At least 1916 are market focused
Thanks and yes because they have past experience on grey market as ‘watchbox’
CPO program must fail as long as you don't have brand new products to trade in.
This is what Rolex should do, make it almost like leasing a car: ‘we will sell you the steel sports watch you want as long as you agree to trade it in in great condition in 3 yrs; you’ll get priority for whatever model you want at that time.’
Dealers will pay more and sell on for more watches with CPO paperwork, that will bridge some of the delta
Whether they will pay more I don't know but greys will certainly add a substantial premium to any CPO watch they get their hands on.
Great info as usual. I can't see CPO succeeding long term unless it settles at around 10% above grey market which itself remains too high IMO. That would be reasonable, especially with older watches which are most likely to be frankened. Funny that WOS are asking such high prices for used Rolex when they are discounting other brands like crazy as are many other UK retailers. I recently bought a Zenith 384 chrono freely advertised in a WOS sale at 45% discount. The "crash" is over but I see all prices (Rolex included) trending down for the foreseeable future
I do believe they will get more and more competitive and it will add a new influence to the market so that will be interesting to see
People say the market is dead but I’m in Mayors every other week and people are always buying ROLEX. It’s alive and well, it’s just a new time and we are sorting out the prices post pandemic.
I reckon alot of the grey market dealers will use the CPO to up their prices and push the market, you know because their honest and customers come 1st lol
good video VINNY - thanks. ~. JDS/CT
No problem 👍 thanks
Good and interesting, thanks. One small point, please pronounce the word, 'homage', correctly.
Great job - and please do these videos every month or 2. I think we all knew this program would be a joke… and we haven’t been proven wrong. And 💯 - Rolex for all the talk about ‘watches are to be enjoyed, not treated as assets’ (recent CEO interview) they LOVE the free publicity and agree they are playing games with the Daytonas and GMT allotments to keep resale prices high. If they were serious about getting a better cut of the grey market money they could just raise the new prices which would shake out much of the grey dealers; Rolex would make more money and the watch enthusiasts would be happier.
Would love to know what Rolex pay for you to trade to them ?
so would I l! definitely a topic for another video, i’ll do some research
the Rolex CPO initiative was always designed to deal with the problems associated with the grey market and price escalation and the higher prices was also understood. It is going to be interesting as Rolex moves further into the higher end space. Rolex are super watches but I do think the prices are too high and in my opinion we will continue to see a price correction.
agree with you concerning CPO's intentions, i think Rolex also looked at the money grey dealers were making and thinking what the hell is going on here, these guys are making more than us? we want a piece of that cake!
@@vinnyfranciswatches they will definitely want that 🍰
also CPO watches come naked,. no box or papers. try to sell those..
True! which did surprise me to find actually, though CPO naked pieces are more rare and limited to vintage from what i have seen
Rolex CPO prices are utter madness. I will take my chances with the grey market or any market for that matter before I go the CPO route.
That’s cool, i agree it is still too expensive but i am intrigued to see if it becomes more competitive
Buying a CPO watch can enhance your chances of purchasing other watches at retail price. Previously, individuals often purchased watches they did not desire simply to be added to a retailer's preferred customer list. Now, they can select the watches they genuinely want, pay a premium for them, and improve their likelihood of obtaining their preferred models at retail prices from their AD.
No win situation
CPO will implode like the Titan
Haha what a simile 😂 quite fast then 😂
Buying from a Rolex AD is the only way, new or CPO. The grey market is awash in fakes.
Rolex CPO = The ancient mauseleum of past Relics that no one wants to keep......lolol
Hi Vinny, sent you an email, leaving a comment here to make sure you received it.
Mr viney get ready to get black listed @ goldsmith 😂😂😂😂😂
i’m quivering in fear
One must be stupid to purchase any high-end watches especially Rolexes…
Let me If I understand your video. AD has become grey market and grey market has become AD
I have seen mid 2000s-2010s Daytona's for sale through CPO boutiques with a 10k premium over the grey market 😂
If I wanted to purchase a watch from the 70‘s, I would trust CPO way over Grey
This is good point which i feel is a view many others do share, as i said for that sub, it probably is worth the 1k more for that peace of mind
What about those who want an original non overhauled used vintage watch, those are the majority of customers who buy vintage.
@@mahmoudghoneim8004 great point! id rather have the original unpolished piece with scratches any day! Thats a drawback of the program for real enthusiasts
Buy any real Rolex and convert it to “cpo” with a service.
❤❤❤❤
nkuwan is best watch factory!!!
My dady bought one #nkuwan and he loves it. It had been there for over 10 years when he went out with it.
I only go to mamacoo to buy a mirror copy watch！