Freud: It's called the Oedipus Complex, every man secretly wants to sleep with his mother Oedipus who just gouged out his own eyes and exiled himself because death was not enough of a punishment for what he had done: IT'S CALLED THE WHAT?!!!??!!
My GOD!! I never realised he was the same John Green. This is like my first John video, I've always been more of a Hank Green fan. I had no bloody clue and now I feel like an idiot!! Also, how did this guy write that? Why do I find it so hard to believe??
wow I was listening to him thinking it would be a shame of someone so enthusiastic about literature didn't write something turns out he wrote a very successful novel I didn't read it though my cousin did she liked it I thought the author must've been a woman cause from what I've gathered it's a young adult romance novel? I don't read young adult novels, they make me wanna kill myself but that's admirable
If I remember correctly, greeks almost never performed a story more than once, shows were almost always brand new under usual circumstances. And on top of that they usually weren't written down, many were expected to be forgotten once the play was done. The fact that any survived to the modern day is the crazy part.
It's one of the old myths that Crash Course just repeats. Modern beliefs tend to argue that the Great Library was destroyed the same way all Libraries are destroyed over centuries of lack of government funding and neglect. A journalist did quite a good book investigating ancient sources. But it prolly wasn't one event. Nor was the library just a storage space for books it functioned also like a university or research faciility. But yes it is sad that so many texts were lost.
I believe that this story tells us, that you cannot understand the consequences of actions, so if the Great Library wasn't burned, we would likely not exist. At least if a phrophecy of your birth doesn't exists:)
They talk comedic tragedy. Where one goes to do something to prevent something and ends up causing what they we're trying to fix to be worse unexpectedly. I think they must reference some kind of devine paradox.
I've always found the mistake of many Greek heroes to be the instinct to run from their fate, rather than confront it. Had Oedipus presented the prophecy and his concerns about it to the king and queen of Corinth, he would have learned the truth of his heritage and might not have ever traveled to Thebes.
66 Roses But then many of these Greek heroes' parents try to kill their children to escape from "their" fate. Guess Oedipus just got terrified reading these stories on the news xd
that doesn't work. Laios and Jocasta had already tried to thwart the prophecy by trying to kill eddie. so they were due their retribution before he ever made the choice to leave corinth
He could have prevented that fate from happening by doing a few things. He was a fool though and decided to kill and marry without thinking.I could have decided. No I will not do this. And then live his life as a hermit or something "
@@nicolep168 You do know he lived 2.5k years ago. No ancient writer questions the use of slaves. What would you say later generations would accuse us of and be astonished that we never even questioned the practice. Hint there's always something.
@@sharmilairom2102 the entire point of being a philosopher is that you're supposed to think hard about stuff and question it. if this "great" philosopher spent all his time thinking so much and came to the conclusion that some people are simply meant to be slaves then he was a fuckwad, even for those times
Thank you for saying that Oedipus does NOT have an Oedipal complex because I got confused with one of my literature questions. It was asking me how does the Oedipal complex apply to the story and I, having read and fully understood the story, was really confused because as you said, he never *wanted* to kill his father in the first place.
0:19 "Ancient playwrites really specialized in families; you have wives killing husbands, parents killing children, children killing parents, siblings killing each other- Oh, and they also wrote tragedies" Well-played, John, well-played
According to one of my professor, the play was written at a time a law about involuntary homicide was created in Athens, so the debate about fate and free will was vibrant in the city.
John Green talks Fate, Family, and Oedipus Rex on the most recent episode of CrashCourse Literature. Fate, Family, and Oedipus Rex: Crash Course Literature 202
Aren't you are judging the character of Oedipus a bit too much by today's standards? He was much closer to the ideal Greek in personality and drive than you seem to give him credit for. One of the things that this play introduced (as far as we know) is the idea that a character's greatest triumph, the action that makes them the hero, can also be their tragic downfall. I would say that this still puts it in the realm of tragedy, though it is much more on the fringe than other plays.
DW42536387384 In short.... Student of Plato who was in turn a student of Socrates. Teacher of Alexander the Great Polymath Arguably, the root of the scientific method. While not a direct parallel, Aristotle emphasized the concept of measurable evidence and avoidance of subjective values in examining the world.
DW42536387384 Invented the syllogysm Had a lot to say on nearly every subject and, while Plato did this too, he had a general theory of knowledge, and classified the kinds of information. Mostly known for unifying the thoughts of earlier Greeks, who he thought were concerned with the nature of change, by explaining the four causes.
you should make more of these literature crash course. I think everyone would agreed they are brilliantly made and that it helps us learn more about the stories we are reading. Btw thank you for this video!!
That Chewbacca open letter is 100 times more interesting after episode VII. WAIT HE NEVER SAID HE WAS REFERRING TO THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY DID JOHN GREEN SEE THE FUTURE
Jonathan Joestar I know. The Yuuzhan vong saga. It sucks that disney axed so much canon, but I think that particular saga crossed the line by killing movie characters. As if they didn't know that ep 7 would be out one day!
In Vector Prime of The New Jedi Order series, Chewie dies to save Anakin solo as the Yuuzhan Vong use a dovin basal to pull a moon onto a planet to destroy him. The survivors barely escaped on the Millennium Falcon
Oh I recognized the green light symbol! (Great Gatsby, I will never forget your lovely symbolism.) Also very subtle advertising of Crash Course Psychology and TFIOS, very subtle indeed.
This is great, made me consider some angles that didn't occur to me when I read Oedipus like 25 years ago. I'd always read the "big mistake" as being made of smaller mistakes & character flaws (the shepherd choosing not to tell Oedipus who his father is for instance, and Oedipus' own short temper & propensity for treating people shabbily as the flaw that led him to kill a stranger who turned out to be his father).
I am German and we just read that book in school and can I just thank you for this amazing video? Though it was in English John Green made me understand the story of Ödipus better than 3 weeks of German class. He explained everything in the best way and helped me a lot. Now I just have to convince my teacher to watch this in school as a summary, thank you so much John Green!
John Green An open letter to science. Dear Science, Please work harder to create a time machine so that we may go back in time to the Library of Alexandria before it burning. There is much knowledge to be gained. Thank You, that is all.
Just talked about this in theatre class last year, and now we talked about it in English. I found this video very helpful for describing Greek theatre, I shared it with my brother, and the class. It's just so wonderful!
There's a reason that's in quotes. :) Here's another one, "Those who would have the truth instead of a comfortable lie have never been uncomfortable enough."
One thing Mr Green forgot to mention is that if you weren't a male citizen and you were caught attending a play you would be tortured to death in public. Athenian society was a great historical culture. It laid the basis for many of the ideas we still pursue, but it was part of the ancient world, which wasn't just another country but a truly different world and completely alien to our modern understanding. It was the beginning of our attempts to understand the world around us but, like all human beginnings, it was steeped in ignorance and delusion.
I agree, but to say it was a different world makes it sound like they operated under different moral codes. moral codes are not decided by humans, they exist outside of us. if we accept that morality supersedes human perception, and also accept that everyone has access (particularly the greeks) to the tools of logic, every culture has the capacity to come to the understanding that slavery and the oppression of women is wrong
Jennifer Kellett Why would morality supersede human perception? If we removed all the humans from the world, there would be no morality nor any use or want of it because there wouldn't be any humans to perceive of it. I think moral codes are entirely decided by humans, but not like laws that are created and struck down, but that evolve from society and from culture. We think many things the Greeks did were wrong, but we can only see from our own perspective. Perhaps one day people will look back on us, and think all lot of what we did was wrong. Certainly, if ancient Greeks saw us today, they would have much to say that we are doing wrongly.
I loved The Theban Plays. It was tragically beautiful. My favorite quote is from when he gouges his eyes out. “Til bloody tests ran down his beard- not drops But in full spate a whole cascade descending In drenching cataracts of scarlet rain”. I got chills when I read that.
Hubris was considered to be a great error in ancient Greece and attempting to defy the fates by trying to avoid a prophecy would be hubris since he would be setting himself above a group of goddesses.
Loved it, like I love just about all the Crash Course's John does. But it still falls short of the great essay on Oedipus, "Planes, Trains, and Plantains."
Two days of binge-watching +CrashCourse and it's wonderful content. Suprised I didn't find your channel sooner as it is full of everything I love - mythology and literature. this channel has become a fast favourite/addiction +John Green
This episode was fantastic, and I'm really happy you brought up the fact that we, the audience, already know the story. Even back in the day Oedipus was a well known myth, so the entire audience was familiar with the details. Sophocles was able to use that knowledge to ramp up the dramatic tension, and even millennia later you can feel that tension building with every scene you read (or see, but I don't know how many productions of Oedipus Rex are put on these days). It's the ultimate non-twist ending but it's still incredibly compelling. Also! Just curious, but will any of the books/plays in this series be two parters? One thing I really liked about the first lit series was that the two episode format let you focus on different things in each episode and show just how multifaceted all of those works were. Keep up the good work, I'm happy to support all y'all on Subbable
I'd guess that according to Freud, the Oedipus Complex resides in the unconscious. Even though Oedipus may be consciously avoiding killing his father and laying his mother, he is still unconsciously driven towards it. The idea is that the fates are even involved in our own psyche.
I seriously hope this can help me with my Oedipus exam that I have to do XD thanks so much!!! Writing about Oedipus' hamartia and the way that fate had an interesting play throughout the play will be interesting to try and write about :D
I think that Ned's "missed mark" is that he is absolutely unwilling to compromise. Which makes him a really honorable man, but leads to his death and it puts his family in more danger than they would be in had he compromised.
Elise Baldwin Yeah, you could easily argue that his honor, naivety, or just stupidity was his flaw, but you could also go with what John said next. GRRM may be implying that the universe doesn't reward goodness or punish evil, which is only kind of a terrifying thought.
CallMeNiel I agree! It is a really scary thought that the universe is random. And I totally understand why ancient Greek theater would want to not create that sort of fear. I wish we had a modern equivalent type of group experience as being basically required to go to the theater. I think experiencing things that address collective societal fears as a group could go a long way to healing deep seated fear and prejudice.
Elise Baldwin He _did_ compromise when he realized his family would be in danger. The deal was that he'd confess his crimes and get sent to the Wall. Everything started because Joffrey messed up that arrangement.
Elise Baldwin CallMeNiel Great points. GRRM's series is equal parts captivating and horrifying. It flies in the face of conventional fantasy (referring to the genre). Whereas most fantasy presents an idealisation of the primary world ('what should be' with clear moralistic and ethical connotations), GRRM presents a (re)created world that is apparently more "realistic" or "true", a representation of the greed, corruption and chaos in the primary world. Ned's death is so shocking because it reminds us of all the injustice in the primary world and confirms our deeply held fears about a lack of purpose, meaning or moral justice in the world. We're left unsatisfied and deeply disturbed about the 'natural' disorder of things.
Great episode. But I'm kind of sad that the (old) greek comedy is left out. It was an important part of the festivities, too. It directly commented on social issues (war and state politics) and powerful persons' behaviour (Sokrates and Kleon). Those people where even in the audience and had to watch themselves being ridiculed without being able to do anything against it. Some even say that Aristophanes' plays lead to Sokrates' death, although I doubt that. Yeah, anyway. Another topic for an other time ;)
Mr. Green really pretty fair to Oedipus, treating him respectfully as a proper thoughtful, investigative hero ought to be regarded. I hope he's as kind to Hamlet; the prince of Denmark usually gets written off as being too indecisive, too thoughtful, or as having an Oedipus complex, when he's really trapped between two worldviews.
I have a friend writing on how according to Aristotle's philosophy presented in Nichomachean Ethics, Oedipus is happiest at the end of the play... real interesting.
i thought Oedipus' tragic flaw was that he wouldnt quit searching for something though everyone knew it would destroy him and those around him. all the characters basically tell him, at some point, abandon this quest, run away. i feel oedipus' represents that "to the bitter end" struggle (spoilers, kinda like the dark tower series by stephen king where the main character is ultimately destroyed because he cant stop until he goes as far as he can along his journey even after putting the main part of his journey to rest and fixing the problem). oedipus is tragic and scary because he's like our own pursuit of curiosity, which bites us in the ass if we take it too far.
Timothy Wood Would his decisive mistake then be staying in the city after he found he killed the king? He needed to know who killed him in order to lift the plague, but finding out the truth about his parents wasn't necessary, at least from where i'm sitting.
In a future season of Crash Course Literature, could you maybe cover the rest of the Oedipus cycle? We're doing Antigone right now in Theatre and I really like it. (I'm playing Haemon and get to sass the king.)
What I have learned from Oedipus: prophecy never, ever ends well. Prophets and oracles are really just punishment by the gods when mortals try to reach beyond their scope.
+John Green From whence come the idioms and implications surrounding the disparagement: "pretentious"? Is it accurate to opine that pretense once carried ignominy not for the fact of pretending but for the gall of what was pretended? Is it come of a common source to this and developed so to make /what/ one is pretending to vestigial? Is the contemporary offense based on the notion of someone pretending they're better than you, smarter than you, richer than you, or just as? Where's the foul, why's'it, and where'd it come from?
Freud: It's called the Oedipus Complex, every man secretly wants to sleep with his mother
Oedipus who just gouged out his own eyes and exiled himself because death was not enough of a punishment for what he had done: IT'S CALLED THE WHAT?!!!??!!
I ALWAYS THOUGHT HE WAS KIDDING
HE ACTUALLY WROTE THE FAULT IN OUR STARS
+Gene Garland lol
My GOD!! I never realised he was the same John Green. This is like my first John video, I've always been more of a Hank Green fan. I had no bloody clue and now I feel like an idiot!! Also, how did this guy write that? Why do I find it so hard to believe??
lol, I've always seen the book but never the author
he's in the film too
wow I was listening to him thinking it would be a shame of someone so enthusiastic about literature didn't write something
turns out he wrote a very successful novel
I didn't read it though my cousin did she liked it I thought the author must've been a woman cause from what I've gathered it's a young adult romance novel?
I don't read young adult novels, they make me wanna kill myself
but that's admirable
"Father Killer, and a mother ...." This is why I love John Green.
Everyone said it in their brains. Had to pause the video to laugh a bit in appreciation.
Btw, why Father with capital F and mother with normal m?
A. J. Probably because "father" was the beginning of the sentence
A. J. Btw, why Everyone with a capital F and brains with a normal b?
Well I guess both of you failed to see the pun. Can't have everything I guess.
A. J. Nope, I stared at your statement for ages, but I still can't see a pun. Explain?
he wrote 123 plays, and we got seven of them,
I feel bad for the guy who worked hard for them but 116 of them didn't survive
how did we know that Sophocles wrote 123 plays? Was it ever cited? (genuinely asking a question here)
If I remember correctly, greeks almost never performed a story more than once, shows were almost always brand new under usual circumstances. And on top of that they usually weren't written down, many were expected to be forgotten once the play was done. The fact that any survived to the modern day is the crazy part.
Wait, are you telling me that I wasn't supposed to preform a ritualistic animal sacrifice before voting?
Yeah, was that not tolled to at the polls?
TheSH1N1GAM1 it’s optional
And that's where we get the term "Oedipus Complex" from
Oedipus: Fuck you, I didn't even know she was my mother
Yah I know right, that always bothered me!
Does anyone else get extremely angry and sad that the great Library of Alexandria was burned?
ye
It's one of the old myths that Crash Course just repeats. Modern beliefs tend to argue that the Great Library was destroyed the same way all Libraries are destroyed over centuries of lack of government funding and neglect. A journalist did quite a good book investigating ancient sources. But it prolly wasn't one event. Nor was the library just a storage space for books it functioned also like a university or research faciility. But yes it is sad that so many texts were lost.
I believe that this story tells us, that you cannot understand the consequences of actions, so if the Great Library wasn't burned, we would likely not exist. At least if a phrophecy of your birth doesn't exists:)
Yes.... yes we do
"They also wrote tragedies!" That was perfect.
Came looking all the way for this comment!
Eska or desna?
I WAS GONNA SAY THE SAME THING
THAT WAS HILARIOUS
And so does John
" . . . and they also wrote tragedies."
As it turned out, that was well-timed; I had to wipe the water I was drinking off my monitor.
or did they write sins?
+Ana Schon I approve this reference.
They talk comedic tragedy. Where one goes to do something to prevent something and ends up causing what they we're trying to fix to be worse unexpectedly. I think they must reference some kind of devine paradox.
Father killer and mother-- *john stops talking* hahahaha
Miguel Fernando Bilan Some guy also says a line like that at the end of the the tragedy if I remember correctly
Oedipus Rex, the worst dinosaur.
I've always found the mistake of many Greek heroes to be the instinct to run from their fate, rather than confront it. Had Oedipus presented the prophecy and his concerns about it to the king and queen of Corinth, he would have learned the truth of his heritage and might not have ever traveled to Thebes.
66 Roses But then many of these Greek heroes' parents try to kill their children to escape from "their" fate. Guess Oedipus just got terrified reading these stories on the news xd
that doesn't work. Laios and Jocasta had already tried to thwart the prophecy by trying to kill eddie. so they were due their retribution before he ever made the choice to leave corinth
He could have prevented that fate from happening by doing a few things. He was a fool though and decided to kill and marry without thinking.I could have decided. No I will not do this. And then live his life as a hermit or something "
What would have been the point of the story? ahahaah
The whole point of the story is: There is no escaping fate.....:/
john: Aristotle
me: oh a respected philosopher
john: whom i DESPISE
me: ew aristotle, icky
yeah, kinda tainted by the fact that he was a huge misogynist and racist. Different times though ig
@@hackneyedstudios4699 apperently he supported slavery. Yikes
@@nicolep168 You do know he lived 2.5k years ago. No ancient writer questions the use of slaves. What would you say later generations would accuse us of and be astonished that we never even questioned the practice. Hint there's always something.
@@sharmilairom2102 that's a good point
@@sharmilairom2102 the entire point of being a philosopher is that you're supposed to think hard about stuff and question it. if this "great" philosopher spent all his time thinking so much and came to the conclusion that some people are simply meant to be slaves then he was a fuckwad, even for those times
"Ignorance is bliss, but bliss is boring."
Well you wouldn't know so still a bliss
@@DANGER10101 stamp
Thank you for saying that Oedipus does NOT have an Oedipal complex because I got confused with one of my literature questions. It was asking me how does the Oedipal complex apply to the story and I, having read and fully understood the story, was really confused because as you said, he never *wanted* to kill his father in the first place.
I keep getting distracted by that yellow book with red writing next to John cause it looks like a toblerone package
same! lol
Same!!!
I got distracked by Titus
the yellow one is "KILLING THE FAITH"
this comment is so old, but it’s the amazing adventures of kavalier and clay by michael chabon!!!! best book ever!!
0:19 "Ancient playwrites really specialized in families; you have wives killing husbands, parents killing children, children killing parents, siblings killing each other- Oh, and they also wrote tragedies"
Well-played, John, well-played
i don't get the joke
The joke is that you hear all of the horrible things that go on in Greek plays, then John implies that those are some of the lighter topics
No Kardashians in Star Wars, but there are Cardassians in Star Trek.
My first thought exactly
According to one of my professor, the play was written at a time a law about involuntary homicide was created in Athens, so the debate about fate and free will was vibrant in the city.
Did you just make a reference to a certain 20th century book, old sport?
+Pompus Ivictus I salute you sir, even though I must say comparing the Kardashians to Scott Fitzgerald is sacrilege...
+Pompus Ivictus I've only seen a few episodes of this series and so far he's referenced said book quite a bit.
Pompus Ivictus which book?
John Green talks Fate, Family, and Oedipus Rex on the most recent episode of CrashCourse Literature.
Fate, Family, and Oedipus Rex: Crash Course Literature 202
Father-killer and a mother, you know. I'm dying...
Aren't you are judging the character of Oedipus a bit too much by today's standards? He was much closer to the ideal Greek in personality and drive than you seem to give him credit for.
One of the things that this play introduced (as far as we know) is the idea that a character's greatest triumph, the action that makes them the hero, can also be their tragic downfall. I would say that this still puts it in the realm of tragedy, though it is much more on the fringe than other plays.
Nathan Leung isn't he supposed to say authors names instead of swearing?
John Green got any tips on analyzing literature's deeper meaning. I don't get and I like fully understand what I take part in
In this story; John is a mostly good character who makes a big mistake; trusting Aristotle. He later has a recognition and a reversal.
Would you say it's Chewbacca's HAIR-oism that was his undoing?
We need crash curse philosophy to see you fighting with Aristotle.
I agree and I want to learn who Aristotle is.
DW42536387384
In short....
Student of Plato who was in turn a student of Socrates.
Teacher of Alexander the Great
Polymath
Arguably, the root of the scientific method. While not a direct parallel, Aristotle emphasized the concept of measurable evidence and avoidance of subjective values in examining the world.
DW42536387384
Invented the syllogysm
Had a lot to say on nearly every subject and, while Plato did this too, he had a general theory of knowledge, and classified the kinds of information.
Mostly known for unifying the thoughts of earlier Greeks, who he thought were concerned with the nature of change, by explaining the four causes.
Ohmanohmanohman that would be the best!
DW42536387384
For the most part in Philosophy you either agree with Plato or you agree with Aristotle.
Perfect opportunity to use "mother Faulkner" wasted!
I miss literary curse-word substitutions.
you should make more of these literature crash course. I think everyone would agreed they are brilliantly made and that it helps us learn more about the stories we are reading. Btw thank you for this video!!
That Chewbacca open letter is 100 times more interesting after episode VII.
WAIT
HE NEVER SAID HE WAS REFERRING TO THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY
DID JOHN GREEN SEE THE FUTURE
The bird entrails never lie my friend.
Chewbacca was killed in one of the books.
Jonathan Joestar I know. The Yuuzhan vong saga.
It sucks that disney axed so much canon, but I think that particular saga crossed the line by killing movie characters. As if they didn't know that ep 7 would be out one day!
EHW2 moon thing
In Vector Prime of The New Jedi Order series, Chewie dies to save Anakin solo as the Yuuzhan Vong use a dovin basal to pull a moon onto a planet to destroy him. The survivors barely escaped on the Millennium Falcon
I love the graphics for the crash course series! The animated characters are so cute!
Damn you Crash Course!!!!
That's right, I'm reading about Oedipus at the moment.....READING!!!
Damn you Crash Course!!!!
(I'm angry because you made me read, not because of the information you gave or your awesome informative videos)
Boeiend Ookboeie wut
Αμαρτία simply means mistake, error or miss. It is the same as sin.
7:13 * throws cup at brother * * flips off other guy * beautiful😂😂
Oh I recognized the green light symbol! (Great Gatsby, I will never forget your lovely symbolism.) Also very subtle advertising of Crash Course Psychology and TFIOS, very subtle indeed.
Well, don't I feel like a stupid history teacher--I HAD NO IDEA this was the same guy who wrote "Fault in Our Stars"!!
+Dee McKinney For half a second I thought you were talking about Sophocles, the one who wrote Oedipus Rex, and I was reeeeeeaaaally confused.
Am enjoying the Literature Crash Course, and love your passion for the subject, John. Thank you!
You mean you passed up a Star Trek reference there? (Cardassians vs Kardashians) ....such a missed reference there..
Obviously a Warsie, not a Trekkie, as evidenced throughout these videos literally all the time.
There once was a man named Oedipus Rex;
You may have heard about his odd complex;
His name appears in Freud's index;
Because he LOVED his mother...
Hooray for Tom Lehrer!
I am but a midget standing on the shoulder of a giant.
Sorry if you are a midget, or a giant.
Wait a second. Wait a second. Is this the same John green who wrote the fault in our stars??!?!
+Nick Ramirez yes
+Nick Ramirez I know, I've been watching these videos for a while now, and I just realized that.
Yeah
Nick Ramirez yup
yep, and a bunch of other books
Courage, my favourite cowardly dog! A+ to the graphics team for that one.
This is great, made me consider some angles that didn't occur to me when I read Oedipus like 25 years ago. I'd always read the "big mistake" as being made of smaller mistakes & character flaws (the shepherd choosing not to tell Oedipus who his father is for instance, and Oedipus' own short temper & propensity for treating people shabbily as the flaw that led him to kill a stranger who turned out to be his father).
I am German and we just read that book in school and can I just thank you for this amazing video? Though it was in English John Green made me understand the story of Ödipus better than 3 weeks of German class. He explained everything in the best way and helped me a lot. Now I just have to convince my teacher to watch this in school as a summary, thank you so much John Green!
John Green An open letter to science.
Dear Science,
Please work harder to create a time machine so that we may go back in time to the Library of Alexandria before it burning. There is much knowledge to be gained.
Thank You, that is all.
"... Some were lost in the burning of the Library of Alexandria." #triggered
Just talked about this in theatre class last year, and now we talked about it in English. I found this video very helpful for describing Greek theatre, I shared it with my brother, and the class. It's just so wonderful!
"It is always better to live the truth than to live a lie."
There's a reason that's in quotes. :)
Here's another one, "Those who would have the truth instead of a comfortable lie have never been uncomfortable enough."
Its just not the same without the weekly electrocutions...
Maximilien de Robespierre felt the same about beheadings... until it was his neck beneath the steel. :)
One thing Mr Green forgot to mention is that if you weren't a male citizen and you were caught attending a play you would be tortured to death in public.
Athenian society was a great historical culture. It laid the basis for many of the ideas we still pursue, but it was part of the ancient world, which wasn't just another country but a truly different world and completely alien to our modern understanding. It was the beginning of our attempts to understand the world around us but, like all human beginnings, it was steeped in ignorance and delusion.
I agree, but to say it was a different world makes it sound like they operated under different moral codes. moral codes are not decided by humans, they exist outside of us. if we accept that morality supersedes human perception, and also accept that everyone has access (particularly the greeks) to the tools of logic, every culture has the capacity to come to the understanding that slavery and the oppression of women is wrong
Jennifer Kellett
Why would morality supersede human perception? If we removed all the humans from the world, there would be no morality nor any use or want of it because there wouldn't be any humans to perceive of it. I think moral codes are entirely decided by humans, but not like laws that are created and struck down, but that evolve from society and from culture. We think many things the Greeks did were wrong, but we can only see from our own perspective. Perhaps one day people will look back on us, and think all lot of what we did was wrong. Certainly, if ancient Greeks saw us today, they would have much to say that we are doing wrongly.
Jennifer Kellett
And to build on what Leo said, let's not forget that it was the Greeks who originally developed our Western ideas of logic.
Jennifer Kellett Morality is Wholly and completely a human invention!
Jennifer Kellett
Morality is a human invention. There are no absolute moral codes but we are working on improving things to allow us to live together.
I loved The Theban Plays. It was tragically beautiful. My favorite quote is from when he gouges his eyes out. “Til bloody tests ran down his beard- not drops But in full spate a whole cascade descending In drenching cataracts of scarlet rain”. I got chills when I read that.
Hubris was considered to be a great error in ancient Greece and attempting to defy the fates by trying to avoid a prophecy would be hubris since he would be setting himself above a group of goddesses.
OMG I HAD NO IDEAD. I paused the video and he did wrote it... I still worship u John
Kudos to Thought Bubble on the rolling FATE boulder of doom. Nice reference.
Loved it, like I love just about all the Crash Course's John does. But it still falls short of the great essay on Oedipus, "Planes, Trains, and Plantains."
I bet Sophocles got all the Oedipussies!!!
OOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!
...okay I'm leaving, I'M LEAVING!! STOP TRHOWING ROCKS!!!!
Thank you for the Gatsby reference 😂😂
Love the Gatsby reference
Thank you John Green for being so awesome. You give me good books to read and explain the literature I don't understand.
Keeping up with the Cardassians! XD
Two days of binge-watching +CrashCourse and it's wonderful content. Suprised I didn't find your channel sooner as it is full of everything I love - mythology and literature. this channel has become a fast favourite/addiction +John Green
This episode was fantastic, and I'm really happy you brought up the fact that we, the audience, already know the story. Even back in the day Oedipus was a well known myth, so the entire audience was familiar with the details. Sophocles was able to use that knowledge to ramp up the dramatic tension, and even millennia later you can feel that tension building with every scene you read (or see, but I don't know how many productions of Oedipus Rex are put on these days). It's the ultimate non-twist ending but it's still incredibly compelling.
Also! Just curious, but will any of the books/plays in this series be two parters? One thing I really liked about the first lit series was that the two episode format let you focus on different things in each episode and show just how multifaceted all of those works were.
Keep up the good work, I'm happy to support all y'all on Subbable
Wow, the most shocking thing I learned from this is that he wrote The Fault in our Stars. I had to go look it up just to be sure. Awesome!
John Green is never going to stop referencing that green light.
I for one, now interpret that green light as a symbol of John Green.
Poplopo I for one interpret John Green as a symbol of that green light.
I'm learning so hard right now! I think this with every Crash Course!
I'd guess that according to Freud, the Oedipus Complex resides in the unconscious. Even though Oedipus may be consciously avoiding killing his father and laying his mother, he is still unconsciously driven towards it. The idea is that the fates are even involved in our own psyche.
I seriously hope this can help me with my Oedipus exam that I have to do XD thanks so much!!!
Writing about Oedipus' hamartia and the way that fate had an interesting play throughout the play will be interesting to try and write about :D
oh good ol' John Green. never forgets to endorse his own work
THANK YOU SO MUCH I FINALLY UNDERSTAND THIS PLAY AND I HAVE A TEST COMING UP YOU ARE A SAINT.
i think the super bowl should be called the mega cup.
Man, the fire of Alexandria really was the greatest calamity of literature history.
Gotta write my Oedipis essay tonight muaahaha perfect timing John!
I have a test in AP English on Oedipus the King on Monday. Thank god for Crash Course.
I saw the word Oedipus and I thought it would be Crash Course Psychology.
"Aristotle was wrong about everything."
That's where you're wrong my dude.
So...I'm confused. He said Greek Theater began with ritual animal sacrifice, but WASN'T like voting. What's he mean?
Haha, I was joking--implying I thought animal sacrifice was a normal part of voting.
Its about us what we do in our lives and how we act
*****
Voting is optional in some places now. Not Australia though.
I only ever vote because they give me bacon for shoving up. Anything else sounds uncivilized to me.
Voting for bacon is uncivilized. Some countries who vote for that, have government and citizens who are complete morons, thinking about junk and S.
wait, did you say you wrote the book "the fault in our stars"? ...the book that sappy movie was based off of?
yes
Yep John Green
it would be really useful if John Green can make more of videos on literature...
You're doing Lit Crash Courses again! YESSSSS!!!
Crash course world politics,how cool would that be?
"And they also wrote tragedies" I love this show. I learn more here then in actual English class.
When you think of it, Oedipus's fate could have been changed had his parents not tried to kill him. It all could have been avoided before it started.
I think it's a prime example of one of the oldest literary tropes: the self-fulfilling prophecy.
The green light was a Great Gatsby reference 🥂
4:50
Somebody's never hard about Eddard Stark.
I think that Ned's "missed mark" is that he is absolutely unwilling to compromise. Which makes him a really honorable man, but leads to his death and it puts his family in more danger than they would be in had he compromised.
Elise Baldwin Yeah, you could easily argue that his honor, naivety, or just stupidity was his flaw, but you could also go with what John said next. GRRM may be implying that the universe doesn't reward goodness or punish evil, which is only kind of a terrifying thought.
CallMeNiel I agree! It is a really scary thought that the universe is random. And I totally understand why ancient Greek theater would want to not create that sort of fear. I wish we had a modern equivalent type of group experience as being basically required to go to the theater. I think experiencing things that address collective societal fears as a group could go a long way to healing deep seated fear and prejudice.
Elise Baldwin He _did_ compromise when he realized his family would be in danger. The deal was that he'd confess his crimes and get sent to the Wall. Everything started because Joffrey messed up that arrangement.
Elise Baldwin CallMeNiel Great points. GRRM's series is equal parts captivating and horrifying. It flies in the face of conventional fantasy (referring to the genre). Whereas most fantasy presents an idealisation of the primary world ('what should be' with clear moralistic and ethical connotations), GRRM presents a (re)created world that is apparently more "realistic" or "true", a representation of the greed, corruption and chaos in the primary world.
Ned's death is so shocking because it reminds us of all the injustice in the primary world and confirms our deeply held fears about a lack of purpose, meaning or moral justice in the world. We're left unsatisfied and deeply disturbed about the 'natural' disorder of things.
John Green I loved the Chewbacca Open letter. If only that was considered canon still....damn Disney.
The Cardasians are from Star TREK, John from the past. GET IT RIGHT.
Great episode. But I'm kind of sad that the (old) greek comedy is left out. It was an important part of the festivities, too. It directly commented on social issues (war and state politics) and powerful persons' behaviour (Sokrates and Kleon). Those people where even in the audience and had to watch themselves being ridiculed without being able to do anything against it. Some even say that Aristophanes' plays lead to Sokrates' death, although I doubt that. Yeah, anyway. Another topic for an other time ;)
i love this channel , you should start doing music history
A million times yes! It would be amazing to have a music history/theory crash course.
Mr. Green really pretty fair to Oedipus, treating him respectfully as a proper thoughtful, investigative hero ought to be regarded. I hope he's as kind to Hamlet; the prince of Denmark usually gets written off as being too indecisive, too thoughtful, or as having an Oedipus complex, when he's really trapped between two worldviews.
I still don't think the hate on Aristotle is justified.
I really love your analysis, it's funny but still educative.
I heard someone yelling in the background on 12:39-12:41
OHMYGOD JOHN GREEN I'M STANNING SO HARD JOHN GREEN IS MY ONLINE TEACHER WOW I CAN DIE PEACEFULLY NOW
I'd love to see you do a show on Huckleberry Finn! (:
I have a friend writing on how according to Aristotle's philosophy presented in Nichomachean Ethics, Oedipus is happiest at the end of the play... real interesting.
i thought Oedipus' tragic flaw was that he wouldnt quit searching for something though everyone knew it would destroy him and those around him. all the characters basically tell him, at some point, abandon this quest, run away.
i feel oedipus' represents that "to the bitter end" struggle (spoilers, kinda like the dark tower series by stephen king where the main character is ultimately destroyed because he cant stop until he goes as far as he can along his journey even after putting the main part of his journey to rest and fixing the problem).
oedipus is tragic and scary because he's like our own pursuit of curiosity, which bites us in the ass if we take it too far.
Timothy Wood Would his decisive mistake then be staying in the city after he found he killed the king? He needed to know who killed him in order to lift the plague, but finding out the truth about his parents wasn't necessary, at least from where i'm sitting.
great
Love how he threw in that advertisement.
Boy howdy did that blood oath put him in a bind in Force Awakens. That conflict tho
YOU ARE MY SAVIOUR! Thank you so much for making this video... I have trouble comprehending literature and this is exactly what I need!
poor Chewbacca he got smashed by a moon
David McConville ya thought would probably be awesome
David McConville Dang Yuuzhan Vong.
Wait what?
***** So you know how he died, but not why?
starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Destruction_of_Sernpidal
It did happen?
At least in "Oedipus at Colonus", the sequel, Oedipus finally gets a happy ending :)
In a future season of Crash Course Literature, could you maybe cover the rest of the Oedipus cycle? We're doing Antigone right now in Theatre and I really like it. (I'm playing Haemon and get to sass the king.)
I love Antigone!
What I have learned from Oedipus: prophecy never, ever ends well. Prophets and oracles are really just punishment by the gods when mortals try to reach beyond their scope.
+John Green From whence come the idioms and implications surrounding the disparagement: "pretentious"? Is it accurate to opine that pretense once carried ignominy not for the fact of pretending but for the gall of what was pretended? Is it come of a common source to this and developed so to make /what/ one is pretending to vestigial? Is the contemporary offense based on the notion of someone pretending they're better than you, smarter than you, richer than you, or just as? Where's the foul, why's'it, and where'd it come from?
Did anybody realise that Oedipus learned the lesson of "What has be seen cannot be unseen" _without_ actually watching 2girls1cup?