Dewalt or Generic 20V Power Tool Battery, Which One Last Longer?
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- Almost 2.5 years later and the results are in. Which 20V cordless tool battery performed better? The Dewalt name brand or the Banggood Generic? The results may surprise you!
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What kind of results have you had with your lithium power tool batteries? Let me know in the comments.
How did you get a replacement battery from dewalt ? Only 1year out of 3 covers the cells. No manufacturer provide more than one year warranty for lithium cells. That’s a fact.
DeWalt herein NZ 3 year warranty 1 year service.
One way to significantly lengthen life is to NOT run them til they stop. Once you see them down to 1 bar, just swap it.
Even though these batteries are probably limiting depth of discharge to 10-15%, swapping them before they are at the bottom of the 1 LED will really extend their lifespan. However, thats really shocking considering they're all touted as having several hundred of more recharge cycles as the norm.
Correct… batteries last longest when they’re run down to about 15-20%… they should also not sit fully charged for extended periods… 20% is a safe storage charge
Some brands don't have a power meter. You have no way of knowing until the tool stops.
The initial price you paid for each battery is crucial to your test. If the Dewalt was more than twice as expensive initially (which it probably was based on recent prices) then the no-name battery was a better value.
Exactly. Not having to deal with the receipts or going through a frustrating warranty process might even be worth the extra cost if the value wasn’t less than half. Just order a new one and be done with it.
1:04
Finally.
Someone actually came back to do the long term update that they promised.
It’s annoying spending time to go back through the videos on a channel, just to see they didn’t do the follow up. Even from guys who said they set a reminder to do so.
Thank you.
I have 3 6ah flexivolt dewalt batteries that are 1 and half years old, each of them have been put on charge at least 120 each as they get used on a daily basis and still going strong.
I do not run them to flat all the time, that's the quickest way to destroy your batteries. Different types of batteries have different characteristics and you have to do your charge cycles accordingly. For all those that say dewalt is crap, they dont last long - they do if you take care of them as one should with all your tools.
My batteries mostly just fade away. They tend to run down faster and faster as they get older. Thanks for the video it left me all charged up.
I would have thought that these battery packs would have charged a lot more than 20 something times each.
lithium loves to stay about half charge. going to flat is terrible for them
spend $50 for a spot welder that comes with strips, spend $20 for new batteries and with a little bit of work swap out your Dewalt batteries with new ones, now you have a new Dewalt battery, I own 9 Dewalt batteries and have no idea if any of them have a warranty. I suppose if I were on a very tight budget I would've kept that info handy. NOTE: with an adapter (around $25) you can use any other tool even 18-volt tools and visa versa. so I can use my Craftsman, Ryobi and Hercules (harbor freight) with my Dewalt batteries
I’m using the same dewalt batteries but 5Ah version, 8 in total and they get charged atleast twice maybe 3x a week and been doing so since 2018 when I brought them, so that’s how many charge cycles, 3years +300 cycles. All going strong 💪
Yeah, I'm not sure at this point why mine did last. I know there are guys like you getting hundereds of charges out of them. Thanks for watching!
I got one of the first Bosch 14,4v Li drill and 2x batteries available in South Africa. I am only a weekend warrior but I'd swear that drill is 12+ years old and everything is still going strong. I built a 15 foot by 20 foot workshop with it, supports, A-frames, roof, inner walls and ceiling. I drilled around 1000 holes and screwed in the same amount of screws (soft pine). I built my first CNC router with it; getting everything lined up entails a lot of unscrewing and screwing 5 and 6 mm screws. Countless handy man jobs. I must have charged both batteries hundreds of times. I have not noticed any significant run time loss from the 1,5 ah batteries yet.
If it's 12 years old it is more than likely NiCad batteries. I just chunked my last nicad pack a few months ago and it was 7 years old. I could easily get a nicad battery to last 5+years and these lithiums are starting to fail after 2.3 years. Thanks for watching!
I have some M18 batteries that are way more than 3 years old that I can still charge to what the battery reports as all bars on. It might be interesting to do an M18 vs DeWalt comparison.
For the price of these damn batteries, they should last far more than 3 years.
Great video, I have several DeWalt batteries the 6Ah batteries seem indestructible and hold charge for a long time. I forgot about the warranty, but now I have a replacement for a 5Ah battery on the way.
Thanks for watching!
Those results can’t be typical. The Dewalt 20v should get several hundred cycles. I’m a red fan and in construction no exaggeration we have more than 25 m18 batts from the 3.0 to 6.0. (5.0 are best bang for $) Some of the older 3.0 are more than 5 years old and still take a good charge. I don’t have an exact count but they have hundreds of recharge cycles. If I’m not mistaken I think they are rated for 300+ cycles ? Good job keeping a log on the charge counts a great idea. You should post more vids🙂
I'm with you. I thought for sure these batteries would last longer than they did. Thanks for watching!
I do interior trim carpentry work and I use DeWalt tools all the time. It must be time that breaks your battery down because I have charged all of my batteries probably over 1,000 times and they still work perfectly fine. I bought generics in the past whenever I was just starting out in this line of work. The generics do out a whole lot faster. Usually something starts to short out on the inside. I have some DeWalt batteries that I have had for over 10 years and they are still going. I am absolutely amazed that yours only went that many times. I wouldn't even be able to buy these tools if that's all I got out of them because I would be going through them in about a month. That test just doesn't seem to make any sense. I don't know what the issue is but I've never had a DeWalt battery go out when I haven't even charged and drained it 30 times. I don't count the number of times I charge but I know some of them have hit close to 1,000. When you do this stuff for a living you realize how much better than name brand is than the off-ramp. It's that way in basically every cool. You use them everyday and put them through rigorous work, only the name brand stuff holds up. It sounds to me like you may have ended up with a defective DeWalt battery and the other battery is just doing what it would typically do. I have never had a DeWalt battery go out after twenty-something uses. Something is wrong! That's definitely not the way my DeWalt have held out. I have over 20 years in this industry and I've pretty much tried every brand and every battery there is
You can also open those batteries up and replace the little batteries that are inside with different ones. You can build your own battery for a much cheaper price. That's a good use for your old ones
Thanks for a follow up very interesting results. I use Milwaukee M 18 the same two batteries for six years never had a problem never had any fade...
Thanks for sharing
I have some Makita Lithium Ion batteries that are over 10 years old and still going strong. But, I rarely let them fully discharge before charging them.
My uncle that’s been an electrician for 30 years is still using his massive nicad makita tools!
I have had a set of rigid drills with lithium ion batteries since 2013. They probably don’t last as long as they did back then, but they still do what I need them for. I had a set of porta cable drills before that, and they just stopped charging one day. I did notice a big decrease in performance on those.
Thanks for your comment.
It's odd because I have a couple of 20V 2AH Dewalt batteries that are 10 years old with countless charges on them and they still hold a charge and work for a fair amount of time. I got another 2AH battery with a tool purchase a little over two years ago and that one stopped charging last week. When I put it in the charger it just flashes quickly indicating a malfunction.
I already contacted Dewalt and will get it replaced, but it seems perhaps the newer batteries aren't holding up like they used to do. A typical lithium battery should easily get 300-500 charge cycles which is probably about what the old ones got (if not more). These newer batteries failing so soon is not right.
My original Dewalt batteries (that are still in use today) have a 2013 date, the one that just failed says 2021. I did not count the number of charge cycles on it but I don't use it all that often so 25-50 charges sounds reasonable. It definitely should last a lot longer, now I wonder how long the replacement will last.
Ive got a pair of Ryobi 2.4 lithium ion batteries from about 2008 that still work.Maybe don't last as long as they dod but still pretty good value!
Every time he picks up one of those batteries take a drink
23 charge cycles is a joke right. And if you are Lucia? Mayonne batteries are typically rated at five hundred cycles two eighty percent not to failure
I had a 2013 battery last me to last summer. Trick is to plug the charger in first then the battery. After the battery is charged, remove the battery then unplug the charger. You will prevent shorts in the battery with this method
nothing can beat Makita batteries, my 3ah lion once are 15 year old
Hey , thanks
No problem!
I've taken apart dozens of ni-cad and lithium batteries/ laptops to drills. 99 percent of the time it's 1 failed cell.
If you can get the failed one out and replace it your good to go. I make large battery packs with the good ones otherwise.
They run my router phone and laptop when power goes out. Bangood des have them for $34.99 now.
Thanks for watching!
im surprised no one mentioned that the cell size and configuration are different, that dewalt uses a single row of larger 21700 cells (5s1p0) where as that generic is using 2 sets of smaller 18650 cells 5s2p configuration.
GREAT VIDEO 👍🏻
Thank you! 👍
I would say 1 cell has failed in each Probably 5 x 18650 cells so you could probably replace one...Just have to be a bit careful matching voltages when doing so.
I have some Ryobi batteries I've had for 5 years still going strong. However I have a couple that only lasted for around 2 at around $50 each.
Are the 5 year old batteries Lithium-Ion? or Nicad?
@@MakingStuff Lithium-ion.
Me too
Im Ryobi and use no name replacements. They last long enough to forget how long they last. I charge them about 3 times a year. Ryobi full line of tools in use and not a regret. They also work in EVERY 18 volt Ryobi tool made the last 20 years. Thats hard to beat.
I use 5.2Ah "multistar" rc batteries, I didn't count but they work well.
Also check temperature, lithium performs at half capacity at low temperature.
You might also want to check the raw voltage of each battery, there might be an imbalance.
There's also a possibility that the charger goofs.
Litium batteries do not like to be fully charged or discharged. They are most stressed at the extreme ends of the charge cycle meaning that the battery degraids faster. Using a tool that drains the battery quickly is also adding stress to the battery. After drilling that many holes I would imagine the batteries are quite hot which is also bad for them.
As a general rule of thumb, ideal operation for this kind of battery is to charge it to about 90% of maximum capacity and discharge it to 20% to improve the lengevity of the battery (this is how I charge my mobile phone). For tools that do require a lot of power having a larger capacity battery is ideal meaning the power draw is shared between all the cells that make up the battery.
I would be curious how 2 batteries held up after 2 years of use as normal vs the 20%-90% suggestion above and see if I'm talking rubish.
How do I charge a battery to 90% capacity? I am using a Dewalt charger. It handles everything automatically.
@@MakingStuff I'm afraid I don't have a good answer to that, sorry. Only thing I can think of without special or even custom built equipment, which would a bit unreliable, would be to time how long it takes to charge to full and stop it from charging with a bit less time than that.
You can measure the voltage of the cell with a volt meter which would give you an idea of its state of charge. I would imagine this battery fully charged would be about 20 volts and discharged might be as low as 16 volts.
@@MakingStuff a year on and I probably know a little bit more about batteries as I have now assembled my own 7s10p lithium ion battery out of used laptop batteries. I am not going to claim to being an expert, but in terms of charging what you need what is called a "constant current constant voltage" power supply (think lab bench power supply). How this works is you tell the power supply how much current (amps) you want to charge the battery with, then you tell it what the maxium voltage you want it to be charged to.
With lithium-ion based batteries which has a very specific voltage curve (the higher the voltage, the higher the charge, and a specific voltage means a specific state of charge), this is not nessassarily true for other lithium based batteries but I think most power tool batteries are lithium-ion. So you can set the power supply to charge to 4.1v per cell which is about 90%.
My understand is that most power tool batteries have 6 cells in series for the 90% 4.1v per cell you would charge to 24.6 volts. You can also choose to charge the batteries at a slower rate (lower current) than the charge the battery comes with which is also healthier for the battery.
Just noticed you dropped your MPCNC video and reminded me of this, looking forward to seeing it as I made the low rider version of the MPCNC about the time this video came out :D
OMG the after market battery they cost way less!! so why would you even consider it?
25 - 28 charges seems extremely low count. I'm all DEWALT kind of man and I have baterries 4 - 5 years old. However I'm avoiding draining them down to the bottom. Also even if I don't use them I would still make a habit to put them on charger.
Actually I don't remember ever having any DEWALT battery failed. I just loose them.
I have probably 15 different dewalt batteries. Only had to use the warranty on two of them. But the 2 I did were the funny shaped ones. A 3 and a 6, which people say these have 21700 cells. Coincidence? Not sure.
My low end 1.5s still charge and run after 7 years of constant use. You just cant run them until failure constantly.
Good follow-up on the original video.
Instead of simply recycling the packs, why not open them and replace the bad lithium cells (as Sick Vic mentioned in another comment)?
That's a whole project video by itself. You can also add a battery tab spot welder project.
Another idea, mount a tab spot welder on the cnc...
Yeah I think I will open them up and see if I can find a bad cell. Thanks for your comment!
Let me ask a question. Do you run these batteries in the ground each and every time and or put them on the charger while hot? If either of these were being done then that is why they went bad so fast. If you were not using these bad practices then id say you got a “bad” dewalt battery but got a new one on warranty claim, and a POS Chinese battery that surprises nobody when it goes down after less than 30 charge cycles. Anyway, those are my thoughts. Good luck - God bless brother !
I'm wondering if you may have a faulty balance system in your charger.....I'm still getting 90-95% charge capacity on 3 batteries with 2017 and 2018 manufacturing dates...
I don't think so, I have some Dewalt batteries from 2013 that still work okay with god knows how many charges, I got another one couple years ago with a 2021 date and it just died (won't charge at all) and it has been charged on the same charger as the 2023 batteries that are still working. I suspect something may have changed in recent years with these batteries, need more data but I am seeing a fair number of premature failures with newer Dewalt batteries.
Depleting them completely and throwing them on a fast charger is the worst thing you can do to li-ion cells. More than likely one or more of the cells got over discharged and got damaged, and by repeating it multiple times, it totally destroyed it. Over discharging a li-ion cell does permanent irreversible damage. Doing it multiple times and you run the risk that the damaged cell refuses to take a full charge (possibly no charge at all) which may cause your charger to overcharge the other cells and damaging them.
Good to know, thanks
No problem!
I have batteries from 2014 still going strong and they get used almost every day, wtf did you do to only get less then 30 charges
It sounds like the NiCad batteries are the better value, that's what I would buy. I'm glad Dewalt sent you a replacement.
@@foobarturkey He said they were cheaper and would easily last 5 years, out of the 3 the lithium should be the more powerful battery, I don't know how the other 2 compare to each other.
I just threw away (recycled) the last nicad pack I had for my older dewalt tools. It was 7 years old. MFG date 04/2014. The older nicad packs seem to last longer. Thanks for watching!
Dewalt battery :
Price $74.5 ($149/ 2 batteries)
Holes: 62
Charges: 46
Total holes = 62 * 46 = 2852
Holes per $ = 2852/75.5 = 38.3
Banggood battery:
Price $42
Holes: 63
Charges: 28
Total holes = 62 * 46 = 1764
Holes per $ = 1764/42 = 42
This doesn't account for the loss of capacity, but we can see that the performance is pretty similar for both batteries.
If it were me, i'd go with the cheap battery and replace the lithium cells when they fail.
However, i'm pretty sure you got unlucky with that Dewalt battery, it should hold for longer than 23 charges.
Also the batteries are about a fourth of the cost so you could buy four batteries for the price of one Dewalt that you can get to out of so you still win with a cheaper battery
universal lithium battery charging rule: 1) NEVER discharge below 20%. 2) NEVER charge if above 80%. 3) once charged, remove battery... DO NOT LEAVE IT ON THE CHARGER! Li batteries in good condition do not leak much.
this applies to ALL lithium batteries. your cell, your car, your tools, your toys... ALL. you should be able to get many hundreds of charge cycles. my nearly 4 year old cellphone still performs like new as do all my dewalt batteries. and i use the batteries on some tough tools like the chain saw and the pole saw as well as the more normal tools like the drill and grease gun.
20% I agree. 80% I disagree.
Dewalt batteries are double, or more, than the generics out today. Heck, the 5.0 aH generic is half the price of a 3 aH Dewalt brand.
I would be suspicious of my charger. what charger are you using? seing that both are doing g the same thing.
So given this was just one sample of each, I'd say they are about the same with or without warranty replacement. I'd expect hundreds of charge cycles, not tens of charge cycles. The fact that you only got 10's of cycles life means to me the batteries are being driven outside of their longevity ratings (over discharged and/or over charged). This is a design flaw then - in both.
Great video by the way...I got so pulled into the content I forgot to thank you for the follow up. Thanks!!! This was a great video.
The charger seems ok- it appears to do individual cell monitoring as it charges which is good, I suspect it is over-discharging that's the issue, as the two I have had fail both had 0v single pairs inside when they did the reduced capacity/2 led thing happened- that's one thing that lithiums hate- if one cell is lower than the rest and gets 'reversed charged' when using the tool- that will destroy a lithium doing it just once- it then goes short circuit and won't charge up again- end of battery if you can't do your own repacks (for those that don't know- if one cell is down in voltage compared to the rest, while using the tool, that cell goes down to 'dead flat' while the rest still have power, then as the current from the rest of the cells continues to pass through the 'flat' cell, it actually starts to 'charge' that cell in reverse ie (+) is driven (-) and vice versa- death for a lithium... If you ever hear that distinct 'drop in speed' in the motor- STOP using it immediately and charge- don't keep using it- thats what kills them...)
@@steved2136 Thanks Steve - that was a good run down of how these things work.
I haven't used dewalt, but the ones I use have a BMS built into the battery pack which will balance the cells and cut them off if one cells goes below a preset voltage level, so they never die like described in the video. I use a cheapie brand here in Australia- Ozito. I use them till they have one bar left then charge, but a few times the tool has stopped - run out of power. But then they just charge up again no problem. Had these for 4-5 years, bought spare batteries and charger a couple of years ago that have never been unwrapped as the original batteries are still operating just fine. Maybe charged/discharge 150 times (guess).
I am using a charger made by Dewalt, not sure of the model number. So you are saying maybe my charger is defective and over charging the batteries? Thanks for watching!
@@BenMitro Another Aussie lol... The dewalts definitely have no BMS internal inside the battery- pulled em apart to repack and its only batteries in there- not really the best design imho- I don't think they really knew what they were doing when they did the swap to lithiums so they cheaped out and just had the BMS inside the charger for charging only, not a good design...
You can get new cells put into those battery packs. No idea how much that costs.
Not a fair comparison. The DeWalt battery has only 5 cells. The other has 10 cells inside.
I have Ryobi lithiums that are beyond 5 years old. Still have full charge. I can check the dates if you care.
Hmmm. No dates on the Ryobi batteries. I have one that I believe is about 10 years old, 4 that are roughly 5 years old, and 1 that is about a year old. I recall recycling at least one, but that was because it got wet (whoops).
Thanks for your comment.
28 charges for generic @ $42ea = 56 charges for $84 (if you bought 2 of them) = $1.50 per charge
23 X 2 = 46 charges for Dewalt @ $75 = $1.63 per charge
Same thing I was thinking. But I beat the shit outa my genuine Milwaukee batteries and they still work as good as new. Probably have well over 100 charges on them over the past 4 years
Great math!!
$34.99 now
Thanx,I thought it would be easier to check the comments than doing all that math myself.
You need to do surgery. You need to open them up, separate the 10 different cells, put a multimeter on each individual cell, and find out which cell(s) failed, and replace them. When they only charge to two bars, it usually means that a cell or two failed/died. You can buy individual lithium cells online. After you do that, you should be restored back to full power for another 3 or so years. I have 9 DeWalt batteries (no generics) most of them are around 4 to 5 years old, and still have full power. I do have individual cells go out on occasion. I change them, and they go back to full power.
Here's what I did. It'll probably make sense, and you should do it this way too...
Buy 10 fresh LG HB4 1500mA lithium batteries. Replace all of the cells in your failing DeWalt battery pack. Test the cells that came out of it, discard the bad cells and use the good cells to replace bad cells in other battery packs.
The reason why I did it this way is obvious, but for the purpose of being thorough, I'll explain....
I didn't want to put a brand new cell mixed in with older cells. I wanted all cells to be around the same age and have about the same amount of run-time hours as well as charge cycles. Therefore, I didn't just throw in a new cell amongst the older cells in my DeWalt battery pack. I have 10 fresh cells in it. I tested all of them, threw out the bad and kept the good. The next time one of my battery packs would only charge to two bars, I'd open it up, test the individual cells, throw away the bad cell(s) and replace the bad ones with a used cell from the ones that I saved from my first time. That way you're not putting a fresh cell into a used battery pack, and all should have near equal amounts of run-time hours and charge cycles.
It costs less than trying to buy brand new DeWalt 20v battery packs!
Good luck!!!
Buy an aftermarket charger and it’ll fully charge them both… I had the exact same issue
Also did you use a rapid charger, or normal charger, rapid chargers will ruin your batteries because they don't charge all of the cells equally.
I've had the 2 light thing- it usually shows a dead cell or pair of cells ie 0v(the bigger AHR ones use a pair of 18650's in parallel, the smaller ones a single) and you can replace the failed ones and its as good as new. In total I got 6 of these batteries, and had 2 fail identically so far.... Quite frankly I am dubious of the quality of the cells used, I replaced them with quality ones as the factory cells failed (in fact I replaced the whole pack in the second one that failed, and its looking much better- longer run time than the originals despite having a smaller ahr rating on the cells- which again makes me wonder about the quality of the original cells- in both the OEM and the aftermarkets
I'll crack open the Dewalt and see if any of the cells are bad. The Dewalt had Samsung brand cells.
@@MakingStuff 2 of my Dewalts have Samsung, 2 have 'unmarked' except for capacity, and the 2 aftermarkets were also unmarked
I don’t know man. For the difference in price, you may as well go with a name brand lithium ion. The key Is don’t run it down all the way. Should last a good long time.
What do you mean 28 charges? I have gotten 100s on mine and still going
When any battery, nicad or lithium looses it's charge in a few days, I recycle them.
Those batteries are very different, The Dewalt looks like it only has 5 cells in it and the generic has 10 ...
The fake battery has more cells. Makes sense
You failed to show charts like you said. Still waiting.
dont run the battery all the way down.
and dont store battery on low charge. or full charge. storing batterys. have it at 80%
23 charges is really bad. i think draing them fully is not good for them.
Yeah, I think I learned that the hard way. I have changed my charging habits, only time will tell. Thanks for watching.
20 charges....that's embarrassing....
If they're "starting to fail" and have only lost 25-40% of their capacity then they haven't reached their "end of life", right? The differences in the number of charges is probably just your uneven usage of each pack in your projects. The Dewalt could have more charge cycles left in it before failing. I would continue the test until they won't take a charge or won't spin the drill at all after a charge. What am I missing?
Only lost 40% of capacity is certainly well within what most would consider failing. For the kind of money they are charging, yeah thats a lot that you're missing.
@@boots7859 Do you drain the remaining 40% of the gasoline out of your tank and then fill up at the station again? Keep using the packs until they actually don't spin the drill. Anything less is a waste of money.
@@boots7859 When you've used up 40% of your next bottle of wine and paycheck, please send them over to me! I'll make sure to put them to good use. :^)
I disagree. If your car all of a sudden went 40% less miles on a tank of gas you would certain think that something had failed and needs to be repaired. Thanks for your comment!
23 charges?? That's really weird. I've never had any platform only last that long. Oh well. Guess anything is possible
You had similar experiences to me. I did a similar test and in the end, like yours, it didn't even matter - they stopped manufacturing the battery I had, so regardless of what I learned, I couldn't benefit from it. The generic batteries are Saturday night special hit and run jobs. Unfortunately, we need a somewhat reputable third party to step up and manufacture batteries that doesn't go out of business or swap to another name the next time their snake oil carriage rolls around.
Well said. Thanks for watching!
Once they dont take a charge u can jump start them and they will charge again
How do you do that ?
5.20.22 no ww3
Sorry but it is not fair to do warranty claim for bad battery after 2 years of usage, that is normal wear and tear. you will see some performance loss for every battery.
The battery fails, they offer warranty. What's not fair about that?
@@MakingStuff My immediate response too. Perhaps the question/statement is badly worded and just unclear?
If Dewalt didn't want to give you a new one they wouldn't have given it a 3 year warranty. Dewalt says it is fair.
@@enduman because Dewalt know that pack is trash or the batteries are subpar, 23 charges only!, that's worse than the worst chinese pack.
Lithium batteries should not be run till dead. My dewalt 3ah are over 8 years old and have hundreds if not thousands of charges. And the still change full 3 bars
Yeah, I have since changed my battery charging routine. Thanks for watching!
Me fastforwarding.
Bro your charger is junk. My Dewalt batteries some of them are pushing 10 years old and I have hundreds and hundreds of charges on them
Lithium batteries are lithium batteries. The difference is how the power tool itself is made.
Not true, there are many types of lithium batteries