We have a Harrison 950mx here and I don't know how I would get on without it. And this is an all electronic music studio. The console is just a large front end for a bunch of a hardware. 16 mono channels and 8 stereo. Stereo synths on stereo channels and mono synths... you get the idea. Each channel sent to either the red bus or the black bus. One bus is for recording stereo and one for mono. That's 3 channels total on our precious Mytek 8x192 AD/DA. I dont know how else I would this and save on expensive conversion. Channel counts on conversion add up in price pretty quickly. And we have a lot of synths. And outboard. Console has aux channels too so that saves on both latency and conversion channel count again. For things like Lexicon FX outboard etc. And I guess last but not least with the Harrison we get all analogue signal path to the monitors. Can hear the analogue synths in, well analogue. :) No conversion necessary when monitoring. I don't know how else I'd do all this. But if your use-case is split console like you said in the video then yeah you're stuck. We just use ours as a big input router and to save on conversion channels. Sure it has a nice sound but whatever. That's not even a consideration for us. All the best post console mate. Cheers.
A couple weeks ago I picked up my Presonus StudioLive 64S. I have 1/4" & XLR patchbays with all my outboard gear hooked up. I have a 20 channel snake for easy hook ups for inputs. For me I like having everything all hooked up and ready to go, plus the flexibility of what the console is capable of. I'm more productive than before and the console inspires me to create and get in the zone.
I have a small Presonus Series 3 and i totally get it. I have everything permanently connected and my DAW is configured so that it just works. I can walk into my studio, power it all up and write and record. That's how it should be. Painless.
That may be ok for people working out of their homes or just doin EDM, hip hop, rap., or just mixing. I would have a very hard time recording a 50 person choir with a live band or doing pre production work for national touring acts with just a mouse and a keyboard,
I'm very happy to see a true opinion of pros and cons in a hybrid system stated in such a lucid way. Today I find it very difficult to watch videos on RUclips which people really expose the 2 sides, the joys and sadness, of working with a console. Congratulations on the video.
11:15 Andrew that’s for the Pro Tools Operator - those studios are designed for an engineer and a recordist (now PT Op), producer(s), etc. I even have a great rolling side desk workstation (but because we have an S6…)
Totally. I was that op for 6 years at eastwest, good gig when everyone is all there. This video is me just sharing my experience has to do with my personal studio and workflow.
Consoles look impressive and can be useful in large multi-input tracking situations like recording bands and small orchestras but for modern computer based production, they are largely unnecessary and just get in the way typically. The solution to a producer desk in the middle of the console is not to buy a $100k console with a producer desk, instead just buy two small consoles, like SSL Big 6, and put them on each side of your producer desk. With higher end plugins, analog summing boxes, a high quality analog stereo mic / eq / compression / ADC channel strip combo, you can imprint analog goodness all over your tracks and masters without the bulky console taking up space in your studio.
Nice to hear your experience. I started like 30 years ago but didn't have the money to get good ADDA converters and ended up with a pro tools Mix with 882 system. THose were plain horrible converters. Later moved on to HDX, had a little more money and purchased an SSL4056E/G console. It had some automation and an old computer with floppy disks; It sounded pretty good and you needed to work a lot less hard to put everything on it's place. Then I talked with Bob Katz and he told me: dude, 882 suck, you want the best ADDA? Get a prismsound. So I got them on test and boy what a difference. In the end I sold the SSL and kept the prismsounds and worked in the box. SSL E are great but they are old and require constant maintenance. Not a month goes by and come channel has something broken. The send knobs have issues, the routing doesn't work due to bad contacts, sold the damn thing. I feel in the box tech is still not as good sounding as a top analogue console but with a little more work you can get there imo. You don't have the cables and as you say for productions without huge amount of live musicians it's perfect.
This makes so much sense. Totally understand and being new to all of this, gives me perspective and helps me know what I should think about doing, opposed to what I might "want" to do. Thanks!
I had wondered how you were making use of it. I',m with you that my workflow is just such that a console (While awesome aesthetically and sonically) would just get in the way and cause more headaches than problem solving. Workflow is 100% key, so sacrifices must be made to ensure productivity is kept. Thanks for letting me live vicariously through you in having it for a limited time, but like you said, you never know you don't need something until you have it for a while and see. Cheers and looking forward to the new studio videos.
Love the slow music "memories" sequence at the end. So touching. I totally understand where you are coming from and take the same approach to gear... if I'm not getting use out of it move it along. For me it's mostly swapping out synthesizers, but I've done similar things with preamps and, of course, that massive Sony MCI MXP-3036 console I restored. The lack of a producers desk was part of the issue with that console, but of course I built a custom shelf for keyboard/mouse and faderport. So I moved it along. To me a reason to keep a console like the Trident (or the Sony) would be if you want to standardize and really be familiar with your preamps and EQs. It's fun to have lots of choices, but it's quicker and easier to just have one good choice that works across all sources. And let's face it, you can record any source with a good preamp. You don't actually "need" an alternate preamp for vox, or drums or whatever. Having alternates is just a preference.
at the studio i came up in, we were patching around as much of the console's circuitry as we could get away with, i never got nostalgic for the tone of the board because i was always fighting with the day to day changes in sound. since about 2010, all you really need are good mic pres and conversion and a solid monitoring setup.
Something to consider... now that your console is gone, get a summing mixer so that you can still get the benefit of an analog summing buss while mixing in the box. They're rackmount so they don't take up much space, but give you the best aspects of an analog desk. Looking forward to seeing the new setup once you've moved everything. Cheers!
Why not use a summing mixer like the Neve 5060 centerpiece?? Route your groups thru the analoge channels after you’ve done in the box? Multiple examples of why this should work. Check Brad Wood on his setup.
Sounds like the right move. I think a board like that only makes sense in specific situations these days like you said. I bet it was fun to play with though!
good luck with your studio. I love hardware music gear and have a lot. it does get to a point where we have too many things. space and ability to focus is very important
This is really helpful! I am in a similar position. I have a bunch of hardware drum machines and synthesizers that I would like to have always "on" without having to re-patch. I'm very curious to see what you do next in the studio...
Hell yeah, ppl gonna learn analog is not the way anymore, we have the tech to replicate any analog, its a waster of money, all you need is a mini pc and a touch screen monitor, portable studio
Bcuz I record myself I never got around to buying a mixing console but I wanted an SSL console SO BAD but didn’t see the need (nor did I have the money) I do have preamps and hardware EQs and compressors to give me an “analog” sound
I use a small Presonus StudioLive 32SC mixer in my tiny home studio. I have it because i like to have a lot of inputs to get to my DAW. I have a lot of stereo keyboards, a few microphones, and a guitar input. I hate spending time patching and re-patching. I'm still trying to figure out how to mix from my DAW using my mixer. I'm a hands on guy and using a mouse is counter intuitive. But sadly, it's how I have to do it right now.
I agree with lots of this...but....there were a couple of times in this video where you were doing exactly what I think mixing is all about...and that is using both hands on controls at the same time, you just cant beat tweaking 2 EQ parameters at the same time, moving across EQ rapidly etc, Im also just started with the UC1 SSL and its great, I think people are def moving towards a more tactile approach, i.e. keyboard and mouse mixing is not giving the feedback to the user...anyhow...look forward to see the new setup ;-)
Damn dude... I can't believe it. I was really looking forward to more content with this board. About halfway through I thought you were going to mention the routing issue from a previous video as the reason you were replacing it for a different one.. not getting rid of it all together because of the computer ergonomics. I hate to say it but this whole saga seems like a hasty purchase fueled by GAS and analog excitement. The fact that you had to figure out after the purchase that it didn't have the routing you wanted shows a lack of research. I waited years before buying my first mixer... Read the manual more times than any book in my life. Drew up input and output lists over and over. Imagined myself using it and where I might have issues with it until I knew it was the right one for me and what I do. And that was all for a $1600 Mackie 1640i that I still have to this day (still their best console to date). If I may, I recommend you not tell people the Trident is a good starting off point. It's like 7 Grand man! If anything recommend used Allen and Heath live consoles or old Soundcraft's. They can be had for a fraction of the cost of that board with more inputs, more routing and less pain to the wallet if it doesn't end up working out. I bought a used 32ch GL2200 for $600 rhat has little wear and an insane amount of functionality for the studio and live with no regrets.
Good advice. However, shaming someone for being able to afford gear is not cool. With all due respect to starving students, being able to just buy a piece of gear you want is fun and enjoyable. Also, try making content consistently for at least a year and you’ll realize it’s not easy at all.
Having moved from a Toft Audio console into a console-less situation (with 40 channels of standalone mic pre’s) several years ago, I anticipated this exact video the moment I saw your video where you installed that console. But, having a dozen IRL friends who have gone through this same thing, I’ve just learned that everybody had to go through the same process of realization for themselves.
The struggle is real. I was using a 24 channel analog console for a long time and after I was done tracking I was fighting to work around it for everything else. Analog consoles with producers desks and automation are amazing but hard for many to justify. Depending on budget and what makes sense as a return on investment, anything ranging from the SSL controllers, to Avid S1, S3, S4 can serve a studio well. A lot of people complain that controllers are a big mouse and a waste of money. I feel ergonomics are so important and you'll work better, faster, and more efficiently with controllers, and it will show in your body of work.
What I like about analog console that I do not have to think what to adjust. I just do it. Fast and effective. Digital put me to "push and check" mode. It is just slow. I was thinking that a hybrid project with analog feel and digital engine can be gap-filler. but now we do not have such projects. They are simply two expensive. Motorized rotary encoder costs about 10-15$ And we would need: EQ: 6, Comp: 3: Gate 3, pan and gain: 210$ for 1 channel strip. 6000$ will cost only encoders for such 24 channel controller which give you a basic instant access to all channel parameters.
I’ve dreamt of having a real SSL since I first recorded on one back in ‘95 as a fresh faced 14 year old. It was mind blowing. But I genuinely wouldn’t have one now in 2024. I use an SSL UF1/UC1 and 2x UF8 along with 16 inputs of focusrite clarett and I’ve been fully in the box for 7 years now. It’s everything I could ever need. I love the old days but it’s just so much easier to get work done in the modern way.
The console in my old studio became our table. We only used it when we tracked drums, and even then we left it covered in everything because the pres and EQs were set. For day to day, I definitely don't miss it.
do you know how much money money Andrew just saved all of us!? he did the thing we’ve all dreamt of doing, and probably is revealing a truth. A truth We all know deep down inside is the reality. I still desperately want to own a console, but seeing this reaffirms what I know deep down, I don’t need it.
Really appreciate this, Andrew. It's SO helpful to hear your thinking behind getting and now selling your console. As well as Edwin's console. Rock on, brother. Keep us posted.
The beginning of the end 😢. A good example of a full time procrastinator. It all makes sense now. You were never interested in music....just a big hard on for gear... gear gear and more gear....these studio tours you do are so weird now....cats out of the bag.. you can fool people some of the time but not all of the time... therapy sessions coming up
lol yes - I want to get rid of gear to improve my music workflow. Therefore I’m interested in gear, not music. This may surprise you. These RUclips channels are businesses that support my work as a musician / engineer. Part of the business is with companies who make gear, allowing me to try and use products I’m interested in and experiencing in my own work. So, yes on the RUclips channels - there has been and will always be gear because we engineers and musicians enjoy trying stuff. Sorry to have fooled you with whatever you thought.
I don’t think there’s even a legitimate use for them in recording studio’s anymore. All you need is a shit load of good mic pres. people are just hooked on how cool they look.
I'm the opposite. I have the SSL controllers and NEVER USE THEM unless I force myself to. I use my cheap Soundcraft GB8 48ch console like crazy. Just cannot get used to controllers at all. Having said that, I have my entire mix room torn apart and rebuilding much like the last studio tour you produced this week. Console to the side, racks line the front and smaller roll desk in center with controller/keyboard/mouse. I am 99% of the time mixing and mastering however and only tracking occasionally.
For automation you could have added the Wes Audio NG Levelers. I added 32 channels of post processing automation for less than 5K. I did it at Mixing Music Analog
Just a good rack with a setup of 500 series preamps. No space used in the desk , and a summing rack unit at the end of the rack. Anything else via digital controllers. That's hybrid dude.
I totally agree with your reasons. I’ve found that a really good solution for analog summing is the RND 5059 or 5057. It does the glue thing really nicely without having to have a console in front of you.
sounds like an unfinished thought. you could have the little trident on the left side, same as your buddy does with the api, without any console on the right side. there you would have your important gear you need in critical listening position. and in the middle is always the desk, like your buddy. and i did the same with a small 80series neve.
Studios have consoles to impress clients. There are very few mixers that can afford to mix on consoles. It's way too slow, impossible to switch between projects, and recalls are a nightmare.
Sounds like you just need an SSL AWS 924 console. You can use it for recording, mixing, daw controller and it has recall! The only thing is that you won't have the space in the middle for the keyboard and monitor screen. Sad to see the console go 😭
I actually got angry at how many times he says "console" .... console... consul.... consull.. cawnsoul.... kahnsole.... kuansowl.... quansol.... ugughghuguhghg
This is good insight! I just sold my API The Box 2 Console after a similar period of ownership. Decided to go all in the box for mixing and had enough analog options for tracking already.
When you got console, I have to admit, I was having console envy but my procrastination ended up being a virtue for once. Thanks for the reality check at your own expense. Hit me up next time you are in LA.
Wow dude you have two real pultec’s…I have a small console SSL XDESK with eq’s, dynamics and Bus compressor just for bringing everything in a centralized location wired to my patch bay and out board gear. All controlled with my Avid Dock and S3
I mean, if you're gonna have a console - get a CONSOLE. Nothing against the Trident, they're "fine". But I don't think they really add much - they're very neutral. But if you're tracking, you want one with really good preamps. If you're mostly mixing, you want something that adds something (like great eq/dynamics), line amps you can drive a little bit, etc. This is why you have the old school guys tracking on Neve 80XX or API - but mixing on an SSL 4000E or G+. Yeah, having a console is expensive, they break, recall can be a real factor - but if I had the choice to mix ITB or on a 4000E, I'm going SSL every time.
I have the Toft (like I mentioned on your other vid) and it has the per ch switch, where the inputs switch from your mic ins-"big fader controls inputs levels" and then each channel has a "computer/tape return" controlled by a pot. THEN, you flip a switch and that is reversed...so each channel can be both live input and/or recorder mixer. Doesn't the Trident do the same? I have a DAW fader controller and will do some computer routing and ITB automation, but I just leave my analog faders at unity when I automate faders in the DAW...maybe that's a bad practice? I just like have the analog inserts and EQ's available to me without the headache of interfacing outboard via another interface send/return (and the extra AD/DA conversion and latency compensation). I do have some lesser monitors that I use with my fader controllers, so I'm not rubber-necking, like you mentioned. I don't really have a point, I guess. I do not work professionally like you. Maybe I'm just curious to hear your 2 cents...if you're ever board enough to chime in. Started watching your vid on the "songwriter space"...gonna go back and finish it now. Thanks for all yer advice!
I understand why you ended up frustrated with your console. As you suggest, the best solution is having the DAW screen and controller faders right in the middle of your analog console. I had the same problem and I ended up with a Neve Genesys Black. The screen and 16 DAW faders are integrated into the center of the console. All of the analog faders are also fully automated and the analog EQ and Dynamics are recallable. It's a fantastic console, but of course it ain't cheap.
I was interested in the Trident 68, but really likely to go with Neve 8424 when can afford it if stil set on a console. Many producers love the 8424 and integration with existing outboard gear.
i’ve always loved having a real analog console as well and it’s true they take up a ton of room! and if you have a small room to begin with it seems overkill. but, the summing and the consistent slew rate between channels for recording & mixing & the ability to split to different recorders like digital & tape is awesome. so i’m keeping mine! 🎉 i hear you though Andrew & completely understand. I’m sure you’ll get a Neve next 😂
Omg Andrew I cannot believe you're getting rid of your console this is a word of Pride from me thank you for getting me into having a music console❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
We've had DAWs since the late 80s... and it still astounds me that literally none of the manufacturers of consoles/controllers have been able to make something that solves this form factor problem... its almost as if they are afraid to...
There's so much more to this comment that I'm leaving but... I have a Tascam DM4800 console that is a digital studio console and it's freakishly able. I can run at up to 96k. I has 24 busses and option cards that can get you into the 2020's interfaces. I use it with Burl converters and a motu 112D interface. The Motu is the gathering point of my digital universe. The tascam is a control surface, an actual mixer when I need it. It's multi layered beyond all functions. I do nearly all my inputs digitally through the Tascam into pro tools. The tascam gives my 24 inputs and I use an additional 8 for sundry stuff I don't necessarily need to monitor all the time during tracking. Cymbal mics, aux room mics, etc. The Motu has a routing matrix that gives me a ton of options, the console has more options. I can print multiple sources together if I want. I can eq stuff on the board if I want. I can use compression on the board if I want. Is it spectacular? No. Is it totally fuctional? Absolutely. Unfortunately they abandoned this line of consoles in 2014 or so but wow, they are powerful. Did I mention a full control surface layer and transport controls? Well, it has it. Could it be better. Of course. Does it get the job done and then some? Absolutely. I'd love some influencer to get the ear of some company and truly complete the product that an amalgam of companies have been nibbling at.
I used to have a couple of different digital consoles over the years - DM3200, 01v, 02rs, this was like 15 years ago. For me, my workflow, the DM3200 got in the way. The Yamaha stuff I dumped when Yamaha killed mLAN by not making 64bit drivers for the new OSes.
@@PlottingTheDownfall for me, the dm4800 is just plumbing and the control surface. While it is connected to the computer via USB it doesn't transact with it. I also mix completely in the box. The mixer is just a big signal router for studio functions. For example, neve preamp - > burl input - > motu - > computer. Or the motu can loop all the burl captured data into the console to do things like sum two mics on a guitar amp or have the B3, piano, and wurlitzer all show up on the same pair of channels in protools by using the bussing on the console. I've been in the tascam ecosystem for a long time and absolutely acknowledge the anti intuitive routing of the interface, especially since it goes right to left on the screen. I wish the idea of a digital mixer for a studio tool was still a thing. Now they're all for PA applications.
Having all of the microphones running through the same electronics helps her feel more like a band. And so many people today they’re doing nothing but electronic-based music don’t need that but I think they’re missing out completely.
I agree, when I started out, there weren't a bunch of outboard pres. You used the pres in the console regardless of the source. And often times for overdubs, regardless of what it was--vocals, guitars, organ etc--you just moved the mic from one thing to another. It wasn't until the last few decades that gearpimps convinced us all we needed all these different preamps, one for guitar, one for drums, one for vulcan throat singers. etc. It's one of the reasons why I have a rack of 16 channels of Daking - all the same. Everything comes together sounding cohesive when it is time to mix. I only have two channels of a Neve style when I want to push inputs into heavy saturation to thicken up a source.
Awesome perspective on how the console workflow may not be for everyone. At the end of the day it is just another tool. The Audient 8024 has the option of producers desk and costs less than an API, Neve, or SSL. I’ve never worked on a big console, but did enjoy using a Tascam DP-01 before using a DAW; so I do miss the more tactile flow, and am not yet deep into automation. Anyways, looking forward to seeing the new studio and what new adventures lie ahead
Music RUclipsr things 😂 I GOT A DREAM CONSOLE!!!! 2 months later "I HAD TO GET RID OF IT" with a sad face thumbnail. MOVING INTO A NEW STUDIO!!! 2 months later. "It's not what I wanted" sad thumbnail. IS THIS THE BEST GEAR EVER??? 2 months later the gear is sold / not used by the RUclipsr. Not hating, but just kinda funny how similar it is for a lot of tubers lol
lol I've always been this way with "stuff" mostly because it's not about the stuff, it's about the sessions and the experience. But yes, when you make videos, it does look ridiculous.
I feel if you wanna get a console in this modern day, you need to get a hybrid console. I have had my SSL AWS924 for nearly 10years and still loving it. I can't imagine working without it.
Thank you for being honest about your reasoning. I found this really informative. One of your reasons for having the console was all the mic preamps. Do you have enough outboard preamps for the number of inputs you have, or is this going to reduce how much you can leave permanently plugged in? Would love to know how that aspect affects your workflow going forward.
All makes sense to me. One question though. Why didn’t you move the console to the side and have your computer, and controllers, in its place? Why not swap the computer and the console? Sounds like that could have been a potential fix
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I’m going to bookmark this video and watch it every time I go down an SSL console rabbit hole. 😂
Every day for the last week - I keep staring at a used Ssl XL desk on reverb. “Don’t… hit… the … offer… button”
🤣
Dude really just needed an Origin.
We have a Harrison 950mx here and I don't know how I would get on without it. And this is an all electronic music studio. The console is just a large front end for a bunch of a hardware. 16 mono channels and 8 stereo. Stereo synths on stereo channels and mono synths... you get the idea. Each channel sent to either the red bus or the black bus. One bus is for recording stereo and one for mono. That's 3 channels total on our precious Mytek 8x192 AD/DA. I dont know how else I would this and save on expensive conversion. Channel counts on conversion add up in price pretty quickly. And we have a lot of synths. And outboard. Console has aux channels too so that saves on both latency and conversion channel count again. For things like Lexicon FX outboard etc. And I guess last but not least with the Harrison we get all analogue signal path to the monitors. Can hear the analogue synths in, well analogue. :) No conversion necessary when monitoring. I don't know how else I'd do all this. But if your use-case is split console like you said in the video then yeah you're stuck. We just use ours as a big input router and to save on conversion channels. Sure it has a nice sound but whatever. That's not even a consideration for us. All the best post console mate. Cheers.
A couple weeks ago I picked up my Presonus StudioLive 64S. I have 1/4" & XLR patchbays with all my outboard gear hooked up. I have a 20 channel snake for easy hook ups for inputs. For me I like having everything all hooked up and ready to go, plus the flexibility of what the console is capable of. I'm more productive than before and the console inspires me to create and get in the zone.
I have a small Presonus Series 3 and i totally get it. I have everything permanently connected and my DAW is configured so that it just works. I can walk into my studio, power it all up and write and record. That's how it should be. Painless.
Sold my console, and never looked back. Once I got over the nostalgia of it all I realized I didn't need it.
Same bro. I want back and forth for years. Had to go through 4 consoles to get to the point where I’m never going back.
That may be ok for people working out of their homes or just doin EDM, hip hop, rap., or just mixing. I would have a very hard time recording a 50 person choir with a live band or doing pre production work for national touring acts with just a mouse and a keyboard,
I'm very happy to see a true opinion of pros and cons in a hybrid system stated in such a lucid way. Today I find it very difficult to watch videos on RUclips which people really expose the 2 sides, the joys and sadness, of working with a console. Congratulations on the video.
Excited to see the new space and setup!
11:15 Andrew that’s for the Pro Tools Operator - those studios are designed for an engineer and a recordist (now PT Op), producer(s), etc. I even have a great rolling side desk workstation (but because we have an S6…)
Totally. I was that op for 6 years at eastwest, good gig when everyone is all there. This video is me just sharing my experience has to do with my personal studio and workflow.
Consoles look impressive and can be useful in large multi-input tracking situations like recording bands and small orchestras but for modern computer based production, they are largely unnecessary and just get in the way typically. The solution to a producer desk in the middle of the console is not to buy a $100k console with a producer desk, instead just buy two small consoles, like SSL Big 6, and put them on each side of your producer desk. With higher end plugins, analog summing boxes, a high quality analog stereo mic / eq / compression / ADC channel strip combo, you can imprint analog goodness all over your tracks and masters without the bulky console taking up space in your studio.
Nice to hear your experience. I started like 30 years ago but didn't have the money to get good ADDA converters and ended up with a pro tools Mix with 882 system. THose were plain horrible converters. Later moved on to HDX, had a little more money and purchased an SSL4056E/G console. It had some automation and an old computer with floppy disks; It sounded pretty good and you needed to work a lot less hard to put everything on it's place. Then I talked with Bob Katz and he told me: dude, 882 suck, you want the best ADDA? Get a prismsound. So I got them on test and boy what a difference. In the end I sold the SSL and kept the prismsounds and worked in the box. SSL E are great but they are old and require constant maintenance. Not a month goes by and come channel has something broken. The send knobs have issues, the routing doesn't work due to bad contacts, sold the damn thing.
I feel in the box tech is still not as good sounding as a top analogue console but with a little more work you can get there imo. You don't have the cables and as you say for productions without huge amount of live musicians it's perfect.
Take a shot everytime he says "console"
This makes so much sense. Totally understand and being new to all of this, gives me perspective and helps me know what I should think about doing, opposed to what I might "want" to do. Thanks!
I had wondered how you were making use of it. I',m with you that my workflow is just such that a console (While awesome aesthetically and sonically) would just get in the way and cause more headaches than problem solving. Workflow is 100% key, so sacrifices must be made to ensure productivity is kept. Thanks for letting me live vicariously through you in having it for a limited time, but like you said, you never know you don't need something until you have it for a while and see. Cheers and looking forward to the new studio videos.
Love the slow music "memories" sequence at the end. So touching.
I totally understand where you are coming from and take the same approach to gear... if I'm not getting use out of it move it along. For me it's mostly swapping out synthesizers, but I've done similar things with preamps and, of course, that massive Sony MCI MXP-3036 console I restored. The lack of a producers desk was part of the issue with that console, but of course I built a custom shelf for keyboard/mouse and faderport. So I moved it along.
To me a reason to keep a console like the Trident (or the Sony) would be if you want to standardize and really be familiar with your preamps and EQs. It's fun to have lots of choices, but it's quicker and easier to just have one good choice that works across all sources. And let's face it, you can record any source with a good preamp. You don't actually "need" an alternate preamp for vox, or drums or whatever. Having alternates is just a preference.
at the studio i came up in, we were patching around as much of the console's circuitry as we could get away with, i never got nostalgic for the tone of the board because i was always fighting with the day to day changes in sound. since about 2010, all you really need are good mic pres and conversion and a solid monitoring setup.
Something to consider... now that your console is gone, get a summing mixer so that you can still get the benefit of an analog summing buss while mixing in the box. They're rackmount so they don't take up much space, but give you the best aspects of an analog desk. Looking forward to seeing the new setup once you've moved everything. Cheers!
Why not use a summing mixer like the Neve 5060 centerpiece?? Route your groups thru the analoge channels after you’ve done in the box? Multiple examples of why this should work. Check Brad Wood on his setup.
summing mixer would make more sense i feel like for that extra bump you wanted with the console.
Sounds like the right move. I think a board like that only makes sense in specific situations these days like you said. I bet it was fun to play with though!
good luck with your studio. I love hardware music gear and have a lot. it does get to a point where we have too many things. space and ability to focus is very important
your desk looks just like mine now but I’ve also got the UF1 which is sweet
This is really helpful! I am in a similar position. I have a bunch of hardware drum machines and synthesizers that I would like to have always "on" without having to re-patch. I'm very curious to see what you do next in the studio...
I can’t believe he got rid of something he just got. He just got the desk to place it in and went through all of that cabling expense and hassle.
Hell yeah, ppl gonna learn analog is not the way anymore, we have the tech to replicate any analog, its a waster of money, all you need is a mini pc and a touch screen monitor, portable studio
Bcuz I record myself I never got around to buying a mixing console but I wanted an SSL console SO BAD but didn’t see the need (nor did I have the money) I do have preamps and hardware EQs and compressors to give me an “analog” sound
I use a small Presonus StudioLive 32SC mixer in my tiny home studio. I have it because i like to have a lot of inputs to get to my DAW. I have a lot of stereo keyboards, a few microphones, and a guitar input. I hate spending time patching and re-patching. I'm still trying to figure out how to mix from my DAW using my mixer. I'm a hands on guy and using a mouse is counter intuitive. But sadly, it's how I have to do it right now.
I still want a Mackie 8 bus loved that console
It’s been a long day … without you my friend , and I’ll tell you all about it when I see you again
I agree with lots of this...but....there were a couple of times in this video where you were doing exactly what I think mixing is all about...and that is using both hands on controls at the same time, you just cant beat tweaking 2 EQ parameters at the same time, moving across EQ rapidly etc, Im also just started with the UC1 SSL and its great, I think people are def moving towards a more tactile approach, i.e. keyboard and mouse mixing is not giving the feedback to the user...anyhow...look forward to see the new setup ;-)
I had a Midas H3000 in my studio. Awesome desk, I just wasn’t using it.
Thought about a sum box?
That was quick :)
Thank god you have come to your senses
Lol
Smart move on the console.
Damn dude... I can't believe it. I was really looking forward to more content with this board.
About halfway through I thought you were going to mention the routing issue from a previous video as the reason you were replacing it for a different one.. not getting rid of it all together because of the computer ergonomics.
I hate to say it but this whole saga seems like a hasty purchase fueled by GAS and analog excitement.
The fact that you had to figure out after the purchase that it didn't have the routing you wanted shows a lack of research.
I waited years before buying my first mixer... Read the manual more times than any book in my life. Drew up input and output lists over and over. Imagined myself using it and where I might have issues with it until I knew it was the right one for me and what I do. And that was all for a $1600 Mackie 1640i that I still have to this day (still their best console to date).
If I may, I recommend you not tell people the Trident is a good starting off point. It's like 7 Grand man!
If anything recommend used Allen and Heath live consoles or old Soundcraft's.
They can be had for a fraction of the cost of that board with more inputs, more routing and less pain to the wallet if it doesn't end up working out.
I bought a used 32ch GL2200 for $600 rhat has little wear and an insane amount of functionality for the studio and live with no regrets.
_Seven_ grand? Lol, try *THIRTY* bro.
@@AnodyneHipsterInfluencer his trident is $17,500 new
@@AnodyneHipsterInfluencer damn! Ok. My point times 4! That RUclips money must be good!
He got it sent to him for free.
Good advice. However, shaming someone for being able to afford gear is not cool.
With all due respect to starving students, being able to just buy a piece of gear you want is fun and enjoyable.
Also, try making content consistently for at least a year and you’ll realize it’s not easy at all.
Iam setting up my own small home studio... I don't have any analogue mechine.
could you maybe move the console over to the side somewhere? or i have to keep watching this..
Console leaving is sad thing. You would probably feel differently if you had a whole live tracking room
take a shot every time he says console and you'll be dead from alcohol poisoning before the video is halfway done.
Sounds like you need a Neve 8424
totally agree
Gladly take it off your hands brother 🙏🏼
Consoles, controllers, and desks need to be more like big a** dinner tables. You gotta Jesus last supper the hell out of that thing with your friends
Having moved from a Toft Audio console into a console-less situation (with 40 channels of standalone mic pre’s) several years ago, I anticipated this exact video the moment I saw your video where you installed that console. But, having a dozen IRL friends who have gone through this same thing, I’ve just learned that everybody had to go through the same process of realization for themselves.
true.
i went through the same thing myself 😅
NEVE 8424 with Motorized Fader pack sounds like what you need
Seriously? Didn’t you JUST put that in? Didn’t you replace your racks and racks of Warm Pres with it??? Haha
Lol IKR. I saw this coming tbh. The grass is always greener and this guy is GAS personified so
The struggle is real. I was using a 24 channel analog console for a long time and after I was done tracking I was fighting to work around it for everything else. Analog consoles with producers desks and automation are amazing but hard for many to justify. Depending on budget and what makes sense as a return on investment, anything ranging from the SSL controllers, to Avid S1, S3, S4 can serve a studio well. A lot of people complain that controllers are a big mouse and a waste of money. I feel ergonomics are so important and you'll work better, faster, and more efficiently with controllers, and it will show in your body of work.
What I like about analog console that I do not have to think what to adjust.
I just do it. Fast and effective.
Digital put me to "push and check" mode. It is just slow.
I was thinking that a hybrid project with analog feel and digital engine can be gap-filler. but now we do not have such projects. They are simply two expensive. Motorized rotary encoder costs about 10-15$
And we would need: EQ: 6, Comp: 3: Gate 3, pan and gain: 210$ for 1 channel strip.
6000$ will cost only encoders for such 24 channel controller which give you a basic instant access to all channel parameters.
I’ve dreamt of having a real SSL since I first recorded on one back in ‘95 as a fresh faced 14 year old. It was mind blowing. But I genuinely wouldn’t have one now in 2024. I use an SSL UF1/UC1 and 2x UF8 along with 16 inputs of focusrite clarett and I’ve been fully in the box for 7 years now. It’s everything I could ever need. I love the old days but it’s just so much easier to get work done in the modern way.
The console in my old studio became our table. We only used it when we tracked drums, and even then we left it covered in everything because the pres and EQs were set. For day to day, I definitely don't miss it.
do you know how much money money Andrew just saved all of us!? he did the thing we’ve all dreamt of doing, and probably is revealing a truth. A truth We all know deep down inside is the reality. I still desperately want to own a console, but seeing this reaffirms what I know deep down, I don’t need it.
Just sharing what I’m doing - do your thing whatever it is.
As much as I would love a console… I know I would just sell it after a year for the same
Reasons 😂
Looks like it's time to get Harrison Mixbus and now you can take your console with you in your backpack.
Really appreciate this, Andrew. It's SO helpful to hear your thinking behind getting and now selling your console. As well as Edwin's console. Rock on, brother. Keep us posted.
The beginning of the end 😢. A good example of a full time procrastinator. It all makes sense now. You were never interested in music....just a big hard on for gear... gear gear and more gear....these studio tours you do are so weird now....cats out of the bag.. you can fool people some of the time but not all of the time... therapy sessions coming up
lol yes - I want to get rid of gear to improve my music workflow. Therefore I’m interested in gear, not music. This may surprise you. These RUclips channels are businesses that support my work as a musician / engineer. Part of the business is with companies who make gear, allowing me to try and use products I’m interested in and experiencing in my own work. So, yes on the RUclips channels - there has been and will always be gear because we engineers and musicians enjoy trying stuff. Sorry to have fooled you with whatever you thought.
Sometimes you have to come out of the thing before you can actually see the thing 😎 I hope
all older audio engineers who cam from these analog times are happy that these times are gone...
I love the piano riff at the end.
indeed, that was so chill and emotional!
I don’t think there’s even a legitimate use for them in recording studio’s anymore. All you need is a shit load of good mic pres. people are just hooked on how cool they look.
I'm the opposite. I have the SSL controllers and NEVER USE THEM unless I force myself to. I use my cheap Soundcraft GB8 48ch console like crazy. Just cannot get used to controllers at all. Having said that, I have my entire mix room torn apart and rebuilding much like the last studio tour you produced this week. Console to the side, racks line the front and smaller roll desk in center with controller/keyboard/mouse. I am 99% of the time mixing and mastering however and only tracking occasionally.
this is the modern day gear influencer full circle, thanks for being honest with us!
Funny to think of me as an influencer lol
I feel like if you had flying faders this would’ve been a different situation. Of course that’s super expensive but just sayin.
For automation you could have added the Wes Audio NG Levelers. I added 32 channels of post processing automation for less than 5K. I did it at Mixing Music Analog
Just a good rack with a setup of 500 series preamps. No space used in the desk , and a summing rack unit at the end of the rack. Anything else via digital controllers. That's hybrid dude.
he realised to let go of materials and go digital 😂
Gotta do what works for you but I was really enjoying your console centric work flow.
I totally agree with your reasons. I’ve found that a really good solution for analog summing is the RND 5059 or 5057. It does the glue thing really nicely without having to have a console in front of you.
Nice to hear that you continue to move forward. Sad to see the console leave . I remember your genuine excitement when you first got it .
You should get a Rupert Neve Designs Orbit. Console sound without the controls. I love mine!
sounds like an unfinished thought. you could have the little trident on the left side, same as your buddy does with the api, without any console on the right side. there you would have your important gear you need in critical listening position. and in the middle is always the desk, like your buddy. and i did the same with a small 80series neve.
Studios have consoles to impress clients. There are very few mixers that can afford to mix on consoles. It's way too slow, impossible to switch between projects, and recalls are a nightmare.
Sounds like you just need an SSL AWS 924 console. You can use it for recording, mixing, daw controller and it has recall! The only thing is that you won't have the space in the middle for the keyboard and monitor screen.
Sad to see the console go 😭
By the way, if you're still gonna be mixing you can have a good summing mixer 16 channel or 32 channel to obtain that analog console magic
I actually got angry at how many times he says "console" .... console... consul.... consull.. cawnsoul.... kahnsole.... kuansowl.... quansol.... ugughghuguhghg
Haha
Hahahaha I knew it 😂
love the thought behind making this move - hope it found a good home!
This is good insight! I just sold my API The Box 2 Console after a similar period of ownership. Decided to go all in the box for mixing and had enough analog options for tracking already.
Careful , that kid may be a vampire. My daughter freaked me out a little, but she turned out not to be one.
When you got console, I have to admit, I was having console envy but my procrastination ended up being a virtue for once. Thanks for the reality check at your own expense. Hit me up next time you are in LA.
Happy to help
Wow dude you have two real pultec’s…I have a small console SSL XDESK with eq’s, dynamics and Bus compressor just for bringing everything in a centralized location wired to my patch bay and out board gear. All controlled with my Avid Dock and S3
Drinking game every time he says “console”
I mean, if you're gonna have a console - get a CONSOLE. Nothing against the Trident, they're "fine". But I don't think they really add much - they're very neutral. But if you're tracking, you want one with really good preamps. If you're mostly mixing, you want something that adds something (like great eq/dynamics), line amps you can drive a little bit, etc. This is why you have the old school guys tracking on Neve 80XX or API - but mixing on an SSL 4000E or G+. Yeah, having a console is expensive, they break, recall can be a real factor - but if I had the choice to mix ITB or on a 4000E, I'm going SSL every time.
I have the Toft (like I mentioned on your other vid) and it has the per ch switch, where the inputs switch from your mic ins-"big fader controls inputs levels" and then each channel has a "computer/tape return" controlled by a pot. THEN, you flip a switch and that is reversed...so each channel can be both live input and/or recorder mixer. Doesn't the Trident do the same? I have a DAW fader controller and will do some computer routing and ITB automation, but I just leave my analog faders at unity when I automate faders in the DAW...maybe that's a bad practice? I just like have the analog inserts and EQ's available to me without the headache of interfacing outboard via another interface send/return (and the extra AD/DA conversion and latency compensation). I do have some lesser monitors that I use with my fader controllers, so I'm not rubber-necking, like you mentioned.
I don't really have a point, I guess. I do not work professionally like you. Maybe I'm just curious to hear your 2 cents...if you're ever board enough to chime in. Started watching your vid on the "songwriter space"...gonna go back and finish it now. Thanks for all yer advice!
I understand why you ended up frustrated with your console. As you suggest, the best solution is having the DAW screen and controller faders right in the middle of your analog console. I had the same problem and I ended up with a Neve Genesys Black. The screen and 16 DAW faders are integrated into the center of the console. All of the analog faders are also fully automated and the analog EQ and Dynamics are recallable. It's a fantastic console, but of course it ain't cheap.
This is hilarious lol he literally like JUST made a video putting that thing in. GAS is real people.
I was interested in the Trident 68, but really likely to go with Neve 8424 when can afford it if stil set on a console. Many producers love the 8424 and integration with existing outboard gear.
i’ve always loved having a real analog console as well and it’s true they take up a ton of room! and if you have a small room to begin with it seems overkill. but, the summing and the consistent slew rate between channels for recording & mixing & the ability to split to different recorders like digital & tape is awesome. so i’m keeping mine! 🎉 i hear you though Andrew & completely understand. I’m sure you’ll get a Neve next 😂
Omg Andrew I cannot believe you're getting rid of your console this is a word of Pride from me thank you for getting me into having a music console❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
I rather get rid of the computer before getting rid of the console 😂
Also, you can't get a Dangerfox desk. You can buy one, they will take your money, but the desk will never show up.
We've had DAWs since the late 80s... and it still astounds me that literally none of the manufacturers of consoles/controllers have been able to make something that solves this form factor problem... its almost as if they are afraid to...
Nothing you.
I'm just trolling, but breaking news! modern technology replaces old technology
There's so much more to this comment that I'm leaving but... I have a Tascam DM4800 console that is a digital studio console and it's freakishly able. I can run at up to 96k. I has 24 busses and option cards that can get you into the 2020's interfaces. I use it with Burl converters and a motu 112D interface. The Motu is the gathering point of my digital universe. The tascam is a control surface, an actual mixer when I need it. It's multi layered beyond all functions. I do nearly all my inputs digitally through the Tascam into pro tools. The tascam gives my 24 inputs and I use an additional 8 for sundry stuff I don't necessarily need to monitor all the time during tracking. Cymbal mics, aux room mics, etc. The Motu has a routing matrix that gives me a ton of options, the console has more options. I can print multiple sources together if I want. I can eq stuff on the board if I want. I can use compression on the board if I want. Is it spectacular? No. Is it totally fuctional? Absolutely. Unfortunately they abandoned this line of consoles in 2014 or so but wow, they are powerful. Did I mention a full control surface layer and transport controls? Well, it has it. Could it be better. Of course. Does it get the job done and then some? Absolutely. I'd love some influencer to get the ear of some company and truly complete the product that an amalgam of companies have been nibbling at.
I used to have a couple of different digital consoles over the years - DM3200, 01v, 02rs, this was like 15 years ago. For me, my workflow, the DM3200 got in the way. The Yamaha stuff I dumped when Yamaha killed mLAN by not making 64bit drivers for the new OSes.
@@PlottingTheDownfall for me, the dm4800 is just plumbing and the control surface. While it is connected to the computer via USB it doesn't transact with it. I also mix completely in the box. The mixer is just a big signal router for studio functions. For example, neve preamp - > burl input - > motu - > computer. Or the motu can loop all the burl captured data into the console to do things like sum two mics on a guitar amp or have the B3, piano, and wurlitzer all show up on the same pair of channels in protools by using the bussing on the console.
I've been in the tascam ecosystem for a long time and absolutely acknowledge the anti intuitive routing of the interface, especially since it goes right to left on the screen. I wish the idea of a digital mixer for a studio tool was still a thing. Now they're all for PA applications.
My mentor E-A Ski Has the Trident 68 and he's doing some Amazing things with it... Y'all better get one if you are interested.
Good luck with your relocation and moving away from the console setup. Looking forward to your new configuration.
Having all of the microphones running through the same electronics helps her feel more like a band. And so many people today they’re doing nothing but electronic-based music don’t need that but I think they’re missing out completely.
I agree, when I started out, there weren't a bunch of outboard pres. You used the pres in the console regardless of the source. And often times for overdubs, regardless of what it was--vocals, guitars, organ etc--you just moved the mic from one thing to another. It wasn't until the last few decades that gearpimps convinced us all we needed all these different preamps, one for guitar, one for drums, one for vulcan throat singers. etc. It's one of the reasons why I have a rack of 16 channels of Daking - all the same. Everything comes together sounding cohesive when it is time to mix. I only have two channels of a Neve style when I want to push inputs into heavy saturation to thicken up a source.
Wait what channel is this? Where is Andre Masters Music Channel?
It’s my second channel. Andrew masters channel is all studio tours now - gear, session and recording videos are over here now.
Awesome perspective on how the console workflow may not be for everyone. At the end of the day it is just another tool. The Audient 8024 has the option of producers desk and costs less than an API, Neve, or SSL. I’ve never worked on a big console, but did enjoy using a Tascam DP-01 before using a DAW; so I do miss the more tactile flow, and am not yet deep into automation. Anyways, looking forward to seeing the new studio and what new adventures lie ahead
Music RUclipsr things 😂
I GOT A DREAM CONSOLE!!!!
2 months later "I HAD TO GET RID OF IT" with a sad face thumbnail.
MOVING INTO A NEW STUDIO!!!
2 months later. "It's not what I wanted" sad thumbnail.
IS THIS THE BEST GEAR EVER???
2 months later the gear is sold / not used by the RUclipsr.
Not hating, but just kinda funny how similar it is for a lot of tubers lol
lol I've always been this way with "stuff" mostly because it's not about the stuff, it's about the sessions and the experience. But yes, when you make videos, it does look ridiculous.
I feel if you wanna get a console in this modern day, you need to get a hybrid console. I have had my SSL AWS924 for nearly 10years and still loving it. I can't imagine working without it.
Thank you for being honest about your reasoning. I found this really informative.
One of your reasons for having the console was all the mic preamps. Do you have enough outboard preamps for the number of inputs you have, or is this going to reduce how much you can leave permanently plugged in? Would love to know how that aspect affects your workflow going forward.
I’m fully in the box with a few outboard gear like mic pre ! Mix Bus and 1176 compressor
All makes sense to me. One question though. Why didn’t you move the console to the side and have your computer, and controllers, in its place? Why not swap the computer and the console? Sounds like that could have been a potential fix
a e s t h e t i c s