Testing The Burn Ability Of Insulation In Wall
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- Опубликовано: 15 июл 2021
- The majority of spray foam using your house would have a fireproofing additive and would have trouble Catching Fire but in this example is if you have a type without the additive such as the great stuff. A vapor barrier is very important in a wall so just the rockwool batt insulation it's more commonly used for an attic floor not a wall. Fiberglass proved to be pretty safe in the test but if you're worried they make fiberglass with a aluminum radiant / vapor barrier. They do make fire retardant spray foam but it's usually for commercial application but I don't see why you couldn't pay that company to put it in your house but you're going to pay. They make fire retardant paint especially for spray foam which I personally can't see it working very well since the heat of the fire will cause the foam to melt behind it leading to the collapse of the paint exposing it to Fire and on the other hand it's most likely the firewood start behind the Paint as a slow smolder first in the wall
I worked for 25 years in an Australian federal govt fire research laboratory. We did extensive testing of different insulation materials some years ago, which matched your testing. Congratulations on this video. Great information and well presented.
Great confirmation comment .. thank you.
Back when the Australian government actually acknowledged scientific evidence...oh how we miss those days 😅
You got it in one. The fire testing group is the only one surviving at North Ryde, NSW. The site had over 1200 in my day, now 20 or so. They are under threat still, hopefully building a new facility out near new international airport site
has austrialia gone very far in using sheeps wool as insulation? beyond 2000 did a bit on it a long time ago, i wondered if it'd ever make it here.
Wool is still available as a roof insulation as a blow in
Safety Inspector and Safety Instructor I wish people here in Florida made as much sense as this man here
you are the safety inspector? That means a lot coming from you
LMAO FLORIDA
@@misanthropyunhinged I came to comment exactly that. Just saying Florida is a joke by itself. Hilarious.
Damn everyone here hating on Florida.
@@pipemasterplays Its as mismanaged as China. Look at the sink hole with acidic radioactive waste going into it like a water fall.
I hope you realize by making this video you probably saved many lives. We owe you a deep hearted thanks
Think would prefer the old fiberglass insulation. Those foam sprays scary. Thanks Post. 👍👍
yeah, i was thinking of insulating the wall between my condo and the next with spray foam. Not going to do that now.
Or you read research on the topic and get proper information...
I agree! I was so excited about the new spray foam insulation, because it’s quicker to install.. but sounds like there’s a reason that we use what we use.
@@FuImaDragonlol you think if your wall catches fire the insulation will stop it or something? Y’all are so dumb.
Rockwool is used as a fire stop in commercial construction. It is actually rated for it.
Yea and it sucks when your the apprentice who has to go around and stuff and fire caulk it all.
how know not asbestos that grey wool looking stuff old 50's homes
Rock wool is a joy to handle and use It doest itch as bad as fiberglass
In Denmark its used for both residential and commercial. Its just a great product,
Rockwool is actually a molten rock byproduct, not fiberglass. Essentially rock fibers which is why it doesn't burn.
That's very interesting. I suppose same danger for inhaling a lot of it. Rock isn't very biodegradable.
Maybe slightly better than fiberglass though? It sure was fire resistant. Even proof.
Edit: Just found this info:
"The dust from rockwool can irritate the skin and eyes if a person comes into direct contact with it. Gloves and goggles should be worn when working with rockwool. This is why rockwool is not as harmful to breathe in as asbestos. Because rockwool fibers are short and thick, the body can easily expel them."
Rockwool FTW!! Seems well worth the price.
@@terminalpsychosis8022 Nice info!
@@terminalpsychosis8022 rockwool is way safer then fiber glass it also produces far less fibers during install (to the point only dust masks are required for install), the benefits and completely fire proof good sound blocking and in is vapor permeable. it is costly
@@TDREXrx9 You gotta wear gloves too but otherwise yes.
Rockwool is used as steam pipe insulation. No question it's fireproof.
Adam Savage quoting an expert he worked with: "The difference between science and screwing around is the act of writing it down." You are a science man.
Mythbusters looked like a REALLY fun place to work, just too bad it was in San Francisco.
@@txgunguy2766 why is that bad?
@@KDill29 look at his username. He’s a right wing nut, pissed that SF is insufficiently racist.
@@MegaBrokenstar lmao. True that homie
@@MegaBrokenstar "He’s a right wing nut, pissed that SF is insufficiently racist."
Since when are guns racist?
As a contractor, I'm surprised there are not more fire codes concerning the type and usage of different insulations. I really feel for fire fighters entering buildings using foam insulation! So scary....
I had read this is the reason we cannot have plastic panelling in houses. It is too bad, too, because the plastic looks really nice in some settings.
How bout all the pvc trim and plastic board and fake siding full of glue? What about big heavy glue-lams held up by new growth spruce or engineered crap? Not a good setup for anybody, least of which firefighters
Locally, firefighters enter building in closed-circuit breathers. In modern buildings there is simply too much plastic and other materials that smoke and gases produced in fire are too toxic to take risks. It is not just carbon mono/dioxide etc. is in days long gone. You are entering space filled with cocktail of many chemical compounds that can poison you for the rest of your life.
Even worse, there's the vinyl floors, polyester fabrics in clothing and vinyl and fabrics in window coverings, polyurethane sponge in the furniture, mattresses and bedding along with nylon and polyester carpet and padding making a hazardous stew of toxic chemicals during fires.
Polyisocyanurate solid board insulation performs well for fire resistance during fire exposure.
Pvc burns at 734f
There is like 10 different types of spray foams. The one I used is called Polynor made in Europe. Does not catch fire because inside the foam all the bubbles are made of Co2 which will actually put out a fire if melted or torched.
Having a hard time finding exact details but by that logic it's not fireproof but does better then other types but it's still fuel for the fire.
its a retardant but it is not fireproof
@user… prove it by testing it on a section of your home. Don’t forget to film that for RUclips!!
I can prove it because I did my research before buying so I know it works. I've tested it on open flame it lights but within seconds the flame dies. You should c02 and fire maybe you'll learn something too@@UTubePhoenix
So the small little itty bitty bubble bursts and lets loose a little itty bitty amount of CO2 “once”
The fire continues.
Post 10…. Giving us the content we didn’t know we wanted but when we see it, we know we NEEDED it!
Brilliant!
Yep I second that. I wish I could hangout with this dude seems like a cool dude
@@Justme-jt1ef
Yeah, I mean I would hang out with him because of vast interest/intelligence on different topics/subjects...
Same here! He's a cool, interesting dude.
Not all heroes ware capes, some just carry a camera and a rake.
@@Typhyr 👍
the spray foam hiding an inferno was legitimately terrifying
yes.!!!!!
This is the reason firefighters use hooks and axes fire can hide just remember where there’s smoke there’s fire.
Up until 13:21 I was wondering what you were talking about... Yeah, that's pretty terrifying!
Nightmare fuel fr
Alot of them use propane as the propellant.. so you have a bunch of propane bubbles inside of the foam.
My house is insulated with fiberglass and that's what saved our bathroom this past summer. Our house caught fire and aside from spots where the insulation was chewed through by rats, nothing was damaged that wasn't attached to the plastic plumbing pipes. Thankfully it didn't cost much to replace.
As an hvac contractor I've been advising people to use rock wool instead of spray foam ever since I heard about the product.
Na, spray foam is far superior and not the same as Great Stuff out of a can , this test is flawed.
@@Bigdoglittle Unless you live in a humid environment and your Air conditioner goes out and you can't get the part for a couple weeks because the shitty economy and your entire house becomes a breeding ground for micro organisms. Or if you have a small leak in your roof or wall that incubates rot. I've seen many spray foam jobs gone wrong. Never have I seen or heard anything wrong with rock wool. A far superior product.
@@Bigdoglittle exactly! Home insulation has boron (or something else Inert) added to it to make it less flammable. For just sealing windows and doors great stuff doesn't need it
@@bryansprecher As an electrician dealing with wires that are spray foamed is a pain in the ass.
@@Bigdoglittle I think your eyes and comprehension skills are flawed ...
As a Firefighter and fan of shows like This Old House, this is very enlightening.
I'm glad to see he's ignited, your intrest in residential construction.
lol then forget what you learned here and go look at the proper chemicals tests, nobodys can foaming a whole house
As a 40-year veteran of the fire service, thank you for the demonstration. But, the other consideration: when spray foam is applied, Sheetrock is then applied over the insulation. This limits the amount of air (ventilation/flow) which can enter the space and reduces the opportunity of fire spread. Leaving your test space open is not a true test of applicable conditions. While it is true that Fiberglas and rock wool insulation offer better safety from fire, in an open application, the spray foam may give you a higher R value for a lower cost, in a closed-space application. Might be worth another test. Especially if you can simulate an electrical short behind the Sheetrock. (And, of course, I just found your 2nd video on this same topic. Still, it how’s the wall space open, not closed up.)
@@CR-zh8xj 9
He burning great stuff foam out of a can, not closed cell spray foam which doesn't burn. Huge difference. This test is flawed.
I work as house builder and rockwool is the only insolation that is approved to use in my country because of its great fire resistance. Its also very easy to work with.
Same here in ours. It's not fun to work with that stuff though (i mostly used glass fiber from a few decades ago that we still had though, which was no fun to work with eighter)
@@xman7695 rock wool or basalt wool (the brown one) are better to work with than glass wool. Also, just make the building open for water wapor with vented facade and you get the most out of timber construction without being worried of condensation and mold.
And it’s a great sound insulator.
Euro
I loved how easy it was to install it.
Thank you for your demonstration and for all the info, including those in the comments. In the region where I live, some houses are still built with mud insulation in the ceilings due to hot weather in the summer time. Only in the last 6-7 years has rockwool/mineralwool/fiberglass become available in the market here. I was very glad when my hubby agreed to having miner al wool installed in the ceiling of our new addition to the house.
What region are you in?
Pretty much as I expected expected the foam board rolled slower up than I thought it would. Thanks for sharing your work with us today.
Post is a water bender, earth bender, and now a fire bender...my god 😳
D E A R G O D
"Previously, on the last Avatar, Post 10 drained a culvert, and today, he battles the Fire Of The Doors"
Isn't he a sparkie? He was always a lightning bender
Next he needs to bend air
Bonus points if he starts doing metal, lighting, ice, and control someone from blood
Rake bender too haha
In Swedish construction we use rockwool as the standard. If you use it for walls its extremely important you make perfect cuts with milimeter precision to not have any leakage that will cause condensation. Rockwool is fantastic material! but the rockwool mat you have in the video is for attics, you could use it on ventilation pipes aswell but usually the mats for ventilation comes with metal nets so you can put them easier on the pipes and keep the size on it. sorry for terrible explanation my native is swedish :D
Rockwool/Fiberglass as standard, barley ever with the paper though
If you use rockwool as wall / roof insulation, how thick do you insulate both? Cm?
Honestly rock wool I would pay for a good manufacturing to be made in the United States.
The fact your recycle literal slag from metal manufacturing is smart.
People who claim that the disadvantage is that it’s not biodegradable is stupid because when your building houses. You should build houses that last long periods of time if possible over hundreds of years old.
Who ever thought that we shouldn’t use Rockwool as a standard is stupid because we should build homes with quality and have these houses as fire proof as possible.
Foam I heard good things but this changed my mind because honestly. Every year state regulators often change policy for what is put into the material and as a product of that foam is now flammable… it’s because multiple reasons.
1. When first implemented into the market it had a slower application time because the chemicals used were less flammable. The chemicals that made it more expansive so that you can use less of the material which made it cheaper. It’s still the more expensive option…
2. It doesn’t matter if Rock wall to cover the walls because it will still eventually burn through that than reach the foam.
That’s why I believe rock wool should expand their markets all honestly.
@@mrpumperknuckles1631 i think in this global recession its going to take a while before they would expand into the US. Our production costs here in Europe have skyrocketed due to diesel and electricity prices going to the moon, so construction business is suffering into next year. Im a professional who works alot with insulation and in two years time prices of rockwool has nearly doubled.
Tho rockwool is very strong against fire it does eventually "get old" and cause extreme amounts of dust, and when you put your hand into 50 years old rockwool it breaks easily, but regardless of that fact. I think you get your moneys worth if something lasts for 50 years that at least should be cheap to buy in a normal environment with cheap electricity and diesel.
But the best part about rockwool is not the fire resistance, no no.. its the noise cancelling and it keeps your house from leaking heat or taking in cold from outside.
I onve built a small 10 square meter shed and used rockwool for it. It was 30 degree celsius outside but inside the shed it was 12 degree.
I think these foams have more downside then rockwool so for me the choice is easy
Oh... Swedes are always sticklers for millimeter precision!
This was not only fascinating to watch. It was extremely educational. Wow! Good experiment.
Rockwool/mineral Wool does not burn. 25 years as a Construction Inspector!
the electrical outlet is like I'm melting I'm melting
@@raven4k998 that outlet was also nowhere near the roxkwool
Neither does closed cell. This test is not accurate, he used Great Stuff out of a can.
Fire Department arrives on scene: "What the heck is going on here?" Post 10: "It's my science project".
As you spoke of "Spray foam Insulation" , I thought back a few decades ago to a type of insulation called "Urea formaldehyde foam insulation" it was sooooo dangerous . It was such a terrible fire trap . It would go up just like your burned out test frame work , or even worse . It's something else to stay away from when insulating .
Urea is an oxidizer, pretty insane that they would use that as an insulation. Basically installing accelerant into homes!
You showed it very well. I've showed up to a fire with a house that had spray foam in the walls. 4800 Sqft fully involved. The sky was full of burning pieces of spray foam floating in the air. Crazy town. To make a correction, Rockwool is just as good as spray foam when installed correctly (cracks taped), though costs a bit more.
🇳🇱rock wool is the best and is well resistant to heat and fire, it is used to make fireproof safes, among other things, greetings from hans from the Netherlands.👍👍👍🍀
how tall are you? i heard northerners in Netherlands are crazy tall
@@lordjaashin 1meter95
@@JCZ2601NL impressive. you're literally as tall as a giant
Is it a common insulation material in NL?
@@eustache_dauger mineral wool and expanded polystyrene EPS insulation board are one of the most common insulations all around europe
Now hes teaching us informative stuff, is there something this man can't do in regards to construction industry stuff
I consider the drain unclogging informative also as I didn't know it was such a big issue but I am also not very savvy when it comes to subjects like that or this.
What about HAY, i read that does not burn well...why the heck did you not include hay in this?
Maybe teaching with some accurate facts?
Build with steel stud framing. You make up the material cost through reduced labor cost...
if you have a good crew.
@@ghfjhloudz7607 because most people don’t live in a wigwam & insulate their walls with hay. & hay will most definitely burn idk who told you that but they are very wrong
That was very informative I’m a drywall contractor, and I appreciate it as I cover over all of these types of insulation, thanks for sharing!
Thank you for saving lives. This should be required viewing for all home builders.
This comes at an ironic moment. My smoke detector batteries started beeping during last night. They needed replaced, which I did immediately. Then, your demo this morning. Thank you, Post! I downloaded this demo to keep and study. You go out of your way to keep us informed and protected.
Haha mine does that to
What a twist.
I’ve sold a lot of the rock wool before and not only is it nearly fire proof but it’s also very good at sound proofing, enough so that you can barely hear the other person on the other side of the bundle
Well, it is made of rock so…
@@jameslastname9171 so its rocksolid for the job.
Couldn't agree more! Sound proof your bathroom walls with this stuff and no one will hear that toilet flush!
As someone looking into houses I can fix and improve, this info just made the list. Thank you for the info.
Fiberglass has nearly the same STC rating as rockwool and costs a lot less.. plus it isn't made with formaldehyde binders..
I'm late to seeing this, but THANK YOU!! We are about to start the official "planning" for our new place and we have been researching every possible aspect. Your video is straight up helpful.
I am a little late to the party, but thank you for this project, I have always been team rockwool, so this just validated. You rock dude this was epic.
Before you tore into the foam, you could see the velocity of the smoke exiting the top, that means there is still massive amounts of heat and thermal energy stored within a void space that is lacking enough oxygen to burn. When you poked holes in it, you reintroduced oxygen and caused a flashover in the void space.
Fire science is fun!
Technically a backdraft
But yes fire science is fun
After seeing how the left panel burned I can now understand how a home can mysteriously catch fire after it was believed to have been thoroughly extinguished the first time!
This is why we tear up houses as much as we do even for small fires. Smoldering Hot spots can be hiding in so many little spaces and reignite hours later.
That's the reason why we firefighters do overhaul, we literally break open walls and check through thermals to find embers
Overe here it is common practice that two or more firefighters stay at site for a few hours afterwards in case something reignites
You are such a thoughtful person, and I love how much your content is focused on helping.
I’m about to build an off grid home in Southern California. I NEEDED to see this video! Thank you so much!!
Rock wool is not a type of "glass insulation", it is spun rock with a much higher melting point, doesn't allow mold to grow in it if it gets wet, critters can't use it for nests, readers sound, and cuts very easily.
Glass is essentially melted rock so he’s not wrong.
@@seeqr9 yep, rocks are made of silica while glass is also made of multiple types silica like borosilicate or pyrex which is a different silica compound. Also glass refers to when chemicals arent able to crystallize because of differentiating solubility keeping Crystal's from being able to form which usually ends up being perfectly clear with Lil impurities. All slag and all obsidian and all basalt is technically glass and rock wool is made from basalt specifically which is volcanic rock and Idk if you've noticed but volcanic rocks weigh nothing because their made of glass that's all puffed up like foam. Basalt refers to the foamy type glass from valcanos while obsidian refers to the very pure silica glass produced by valcanos. Also rock wool and fiber glass and asbestos all cause the same problem from breathing them in but the difference is that rock wool and fibre glass are made in a way that the fibres are at controlled thickness which keeps them from being as small as asbestos so u are less likely to die from glass fibre or rock wool but both rock wool and glass fibre are very equally bad for your body and both should be handled with gloves and when using rockwool for insulation in homes your supposed to use a face mask just like with glass fibre but when using rock wool in the garden you dont really need a face mask. Also rock wool has a much higher melting point then fibre glass and is made from naturally occurring minerals and silica while glass fibre is made from pure recycled glass so it's pure silica and is very inert while rock wool can contain random minerals and animals like rats are less likely to use rock wool for bedding or nests while they are very likely to use fibre glass because of it being inert and basically they cant tell it's not just fur while with rock wool it can smell funny and Harbor bacterias because of the natural minerals in it and volcanic rock is naturally good for bacteria because its rich in minerals that bacteria love!
I had some rockwool laying around in my carport after a remodel and field mice and birds made nests in it. When I went to clean it up, it broke down in pieces and made a huge mess..
@@seeqr9 he is really wrong. Mineral wool and fiberglass look and install similarly, but that is where it ends. There are huge differences in different kinds of rocks and huge differences in the qualities and performance of these to insulators.
@@seeqr9 All rocks started out as melted rock. More specifically though, the glasses are rocks that cool so fast, minerals do not crystallize separately.
Because different minerals have different melting points (which also means "freezing" points when it goes from liquid to solid), the slower molten rock cools, the more time given for the different minerals to separate and crystallize out of molten solution, aggregate, and form microscopic and then visible crystals.
This is why you can visibly see individual crystals in granite, but surface formed basalt has much smaller crystals, and you will see maybe the occasional isolated crystal in glass when looking at it with a microscope. Because granite is formed in huge formations underground where its heat is insulated and it can cool over thousands of years compared to surface lavas which can cool from nearly instantly to a few days.
I hope this video goes viral. The fact that people are entrusting their lives to these dangerous products is terrifying. Thank you.
I made this video because I've seen other demonstration doing the same thing but never involving spray foam. I used spray foam in a lot of my projects when I do home repairs in flip houses the stuff is completely safe as long as the electrical system is good, as an electrical worker I always oversized the wires to prevent the hazard
@@post.10 a man of many talents
I just shared it on Facebook to hopefully help get things going on the viral bit.
@@post.10 as an Apprentice-looking-for-work, I salute you for that. #12 might cost more, but it's worth the safety and peace of mind for 15A circuits, especially places that are likely to have space heaters used (this is why I have a 20 A Single-outlet circuit for A/C and heater, NOTHING ELSE goes on that circuit)
Spray foam has excellent resistance to heat transfer and closed-cell blocks moisture. It is flammable so if a fire starts, get out. Follow codes when installing it that require an ignition barrier (drywall generally).
With fiberglass on a roof you may well rot out due to moisture intrusion.
The world needs to see this. I bet u are saving lives right now with this information.
Very cool demonstration! :) Thank you so much for doing this. When you poked the spray foam near the end, it reminded me of a marshmallow cooked over a camp fire. I'm considering having my off-grid house poured out of concrete, to reduce the risk of loss from fire or tornado damage. That being said, I'm assuming that I will still have to insulate it, so this is very good info to know!
As a fire Marshal I've often wondered this and was surprised to see this video done by you. Just shows how knowledgeable and versatile you are. This is an awesome video. I will apply this knowledge to my work. Thank you buddy. Can't wait to see the next drain video!
As a fire Marshall? You should already know this stuff. Don't they train firemen/women on this?
@Ll Walker we see these things in classes as well as in the field but at 3am in 19° smoky wet burned out structures our main objective is to determine point of origin. Many times there's nothing left to compare. My main point is it's nice to see a side by side comparison as building materials are varied in different structures.
@@walkermom100 It's always nice to insult others knowledge isn't it?
@@UltraGamma25 how is asking a question insulting someone? You're saying they should not know this information after being in a role for quite a number of years.
@@UltraGamma25 also a fire Marshall has a different role than a regular firefighter. A fire marshall investigates fires so they should.know these things.
I'm about to install a bunch of Rockwool today at my cottage. I feel much better about it now. haha
I love the stuff, it's far better than fiberglass. Instead of just stuffing it into a space and hoping it fits, the rockwool can be cut to fit intricate cavities with no air pockets. The fire resistance is just a bonus IMO. It's a superior insulator as well.
So glad this came up before I started my diy project!! Thank you for doing this experiment.
I only use the rock wool insulation with an exterior wrap and rodent mesh inside on both interior and exterior sides of the outside walls now, and foam in the corner gaps and eves (hard places to seal with rolled insulation).I like it because it’s easier to put up and I’m glad I used it in my shop after seeing this. I keep pests from tearing up my farm equipment and keep it in a lot warmer temperatures in winter which is nice not worrying about freeze damage and thawing out equipment after snow removal. It’s also got a big wood burner in the corner off it that I have a lot of safety measures in place but now feel better about my choices
I'm glad my house is full of that fiber glass (we saw when our neighborhood was still being built). This video actually brings more security to me as i get easily paranoid. thank you so very much for this video!
Here I am, a resident of eastern washington going "You got insulation?"
My apartment buildings were built on a budget in a desert like environment, but we get super hot summers and super cold winters and not a lot of moisture - yet I don't think there is an ounce of insulation in these walls. Ice can form on the walls in the winter, heat just radiates through the wall in the summer. If I could I'd take someone to court over this.
We had an horrific incident here in the Uk a couple of years ago at a high rise block of flats called Grenfell tower where a brand of foam insulation was attached to the external of the 1960s era concrete structure and covered with aluminium decorative panelling ,one of the flats caught fire and the insulation burned very rapidly between the panelling and the original structure causing an inferno which claimed the lives of over 70 souls ,various people have been blamed for bad practise and dubious decision making but nobody has been truly held accountable for the events of that night
The Grenfell fire was created by the CLADDING infill of very flammable polyethylene PLUS the chimney effect of the gap between the insulation and the cladding. Not helped by plastic windows held in place by foam, polystyrene, and rubber. The insulation was not suitable either, can burn as in this test, but the combination with the cladding and air maximised the inferno. Grenfell was far from the only building with this construction, turns out the UK was riddled with hundreds of similar buildings.
The inquiry has JUST ended (Nov 2022) report yet to come, and criminal investigations are now able to be progressed.
@@asilver2889
A great example to show why too much foam, plastic, and rubber-like stuff is a bad idea on any building.
In the UK I get lots of phone calls from firms trying persuade me that I should have my glass-fiber insulation removed and replaced by plastic foam.
No one is being blamed because the eco political issues were met and werecmore important than any other issues. considerations.
Bay number 2 reminded me of exactly that. Uncomfortably flammable material in a vertical arrangement, chimney draft, and we’re off to the races.
Thanks for taking the time and cost of doing this. It was really interesting. 😊
Post 10 is so eclectic in his content...thank you for the very informative video and stay safe!
You aren't lying when you say that it is a science project. You had a hypothesis. You came up with a test. You tested the hypothesis (quite well mind you) and in the end you can draw a CLEAR conclusion. This absolutely is 100% a science project.
Now the implication is that it's for high school or college. That's on them for assuming, you didn't say anything about school. It was a project in the pursuit of science, a science project.
Yep. The difference between this small science experiment and a full publishable study is doing it several more times and probably recording the temperature of each.
An integral analysis of the time spent above 250°C, with a resulting value measured in degree-minutes, would imo be a good proxy for how “dangerous” each insulation is.
Control against some variables by lighting every insulation with a fuse or other identical pyrotechnic device placed identically in each wall cell. That way ignition technique isn’t a factor.
This could become a whole study on the fire risk of various forms of insulation.
the test does not make sense because in reality the wall is not made as in the test, so the conclusions have nothing to do with a real scientific method
@@wallalo Read the previous comment on this thread. That's how you properly do it.
I hope someone gives you a medal, because you have certainly earned in my book. Thanks mate.
then send him a medal if he earned one in your book
@@lordjaashin he might not have a PO box
@@lordjaashin I live in Scotland and we only have blue Peter badges.
Great demo & great timing for me regarding some decisions I'm making. Thank you!
In our area (Great White North) Great Stuff (open cell) is no allowed for cavity style wall installation, more for sealing draughts in small quantities such as the perimeter. The closed cell is approved for this type of installation and has different properties. Rigid Board is used for draught sealing/heat loss in conjunction with Rockwool/Pink Fluffy batts as the fire barrier. I did a basement reno recently and used a combination of all 3 materials that passed fire and building inspection, as they were installed correctly. That being said, a lot of "foam in a can" is used by diyers for various projects without reading the label nor knowing what products are suitable for which purpose.
Your chanel is the most random but enjoyable topics ever
You can smell his perfume?
I learn more practical stuff from this channel than I have from my 3 college degrees. The Post 10 School of Practical Engineering totally rocks! This is super cool! 😊
I'm sorry your college failed you so badly...
You are absolutely awesome for making this video you save somebody a burned house and an investigation where it was too late when they Can watch your video and make a choice from there On what route they wanna take thank you
Thank you for this demonstration! This is definitely an eye opener!
Just got the break down from an insulation estimator, rock-wool is made from Lava rock melted down literally turned back into molten lava, which then through the process turns into to this cotton candy like material good to 5000 degrees, fiberglass same process but made from sand pretty interesting
yep, basalt (lava rock)
Mostly Correct! The difference is temperature. Glass melts at a much lower temperature than rocks. Glass even burns in many building fires when the fire is hot enough.
That means the "mineral wool" made from rocks is, by far, the best and safest in most applications.
@@laughingone3728 true. rockwool is painfully expensive but it's the most heat resistant.
The only thing better than rockwool is asbestos... I'll stick with the rockwool😅
@@Pantology_Enthusiast Not only that but rockwool is VERY water resistant, the basalt is already resistant but the oil used in it's manufacture improves it further. Fiber glass holds water quite well, making it easier for mold and mildew to form this trapped moisture can also cause corrosion and damage to wires and outlets, increasing the chances of fires.
@@Gargoyle364 oof, big time. Fiberglass is like a sponge.
In a year or so I’m building a camper van from scratch. I was considering spray foam for easy installation but not after seeing this. No way!
I'm thinking of doing the same in the future but I watched videos that said the reaction from the spray foam heats up the sheet metal of the van and you can get warped panels that can be seen externally but I'm definitely not doing it after seeing this video either.
Inb4 you use something even more flammable...
Why not? There is no reason why it should ever catch fire inside a metal van.
you can get fire risistant foam that works up to 1000 celcius like rockwool
both of them can burn in a serius fire, but so can metal
For my roof I used closed cell spray foam, but also used a partial layer of rockwool mineral wool.
To prevent condensation from occurring on the interior side of my house, I validated that the majority of the R value comes from the spray foam (even though RValue is less relevant for spray foam) (more than 2/3 of the R Value is from the foam).
The problem I had with just the closed cell spray foam is that it doesn't help with sound and actually amplifies it. Good to know that if a fire did happen that it would likely be stopped by the mineral wool before spreading from the sprayfoam.
I am a licensed Architect and that is why you have building codes. Paper or foiled back insulation is required to be protected by sheetrock or other sheathing as well as the other spray foam insulations or boards. Only the mineral wool or noards that are fire rated for exposure can be left exposed.
I see it all the time where contractors leave paper backed or spray foam insulation exposed in a basement or attic and I tell them they have to cover it.
You thought the fiberglass would do better than the mineral wool?
I specify mineral wool as sound insulation and it makes an ordinary wall a one hour fire rated fire stop.
It not only wont burn, it also keeps the other stuff in tbe wall from getting hot enough to combust.
My formula on a 5.5 inch wood stud wall is 3 inches of closed cell spray foam- 2" gives you a vapor barrier, and 2.5" of mineral wool so you dont have to shave the stuff to put in your electrinal boxes. This wall wont burn...
do you call out metal welded ariund 10 foot wide doors to backyard
Thermal barrier paint is painted on exposed foam insulation. Ignition barrier paint can also be used depending on the area.
The most intetsting man in the world!
he doesn't always set fires but when he does they're educational
iirc, post10 main job is as an electrician. cleaning culverts is his side hustle as a hobby
It's pretty shocking that building codes allow spray foam insulation. I had no idea it was so flammable.
Good vid, Post. 👍
I mean it also allows blown in cellulose.
The spray foam is supposed to be covered with intumescent paint or drywall, this would have prevented the fire.
@@evanrobinson7657 cellulose doesn't burn easily because it's treated with borax.
Two things. The combustion point of foam is formulated to be quite high. If your wires are hot enough to combust foam insulation, it's likely also hot enough to start burning wood and wire insulation. Second, these insulation would normally be protected from open flame by the gypsum or plaster wall finish which should protect the insulation from direct flame for the first 30 minutes
Wow. How horrible. 🤔 code also allows u to build with wood, plywood, paint, carpeting, and wall paper numb nutz.
Thank you very much for this informative video. I'm planning to improve the wall and attic insulation of my house. I thought about this modern stuff but the test result is more like the "Grenfell Tower" in London, England. So I better get the fibre glass. This is also proof how important electrical safety is. Also mounting and maintaining smoke detectors in your house.😁
A great presentation Young Man.
As a 35 Plus year veteran in the business. Nothing out performs the fiberglass or wool batt.
As long as it's installed properly.
Foam products too.!! Have there uses /do & don't. It's truly a science that requires a well trained Tech. Coming from a BPI,SST, certified Master installer, in my honest opinion nothing outperforms the fiberglass batt.
I swear by rockwool insulation, great stuff; imo the best insulation. Sure there are more environmentally friendly options like corks, cotton/denim, sheepwool but none of them provide the fire resistsance and moisture resistance of rockwool. In fact, the environmentally friendly insulations are often the worst kind of insualtion, zero fire and moisture resistance.
Rockwool, aka mineral wool is literally made from rocks, cant get more environmentally friendly that that
How toxic was that
I’d be interested to see a fire test on wool insulation. I remember seeing one on wool carpet vs nylon and the wool just smouldered and then went out
It's also bug and rodent resistant
@Unknown Alien yes it is, the fibers come loose while insulating and they go really deep in your lungs. Even when wearing a face mask it wil remain in the air for quitte a while. And the insulationvalue isn't that great
To quote many fire experts, "All fires stop burning... eventually."
There are underground coal and Peet fires that have been burning for decades and will continue for centuries.
That's the fire triangle for you: To have a fire you need air, heat and a fuel. Remove one of those, and the fire dies out.... The last one will eventually solve itself at one point.
@@LostWhits Ah, but they will someday stop burning. Eventually.
This is hugely informative as well as fascinating. Thanks so much! 💛🙏🏼
Perfect. That was very informative and well done. You might have saved some lives with the demonstration.
In my experience, “fire-resistant” materials are only resistant to a certain temperature. Over said temperature, they are extremely flammable.
Agreeed
definitely looks like what happened with the insulation board. at the beginning it didn't do much and the spray foam sealing the edges did most of the burning. eventually the temp got hot enough and the wood started burning, and the insulation board started to burn too, which is when it really took off.
But getting to and maintaining the heat required for some of those to take off is the key factor. If the fire can't maintain the temperature needed for the fire to stay light and spread under its own presence... it's just going to burn itself out. The two that burned are petroleum based.
mineral wool is made out stone. How do you imagine rock burning? Will it melt? Yes. rockwool states temperatures up to 1000c.
Flammability and combustability are two different properties. Normally this material is behind non flammable plaster and gypsum board so flammability isn't a big issue until the building is already lost. Meanwhile, the combustion point of the foam should be high enough that the wire insulation and wood are also close to combusting themselves
Not content with meeting the state DOT officials, Post 10 aims to meet the state fire marshal as well. ; )
Sorry to correct but I’m a builder in the northeast and we use R30 Rockwool insulation in any vaulted ceiling we build. It has to be 2x10 so there’s a space for ventilation. I prefer not to build that way I make double roofs instead. Rockwool is overall the best rodent pest resistant fire retardant water resistant also. A great combo is 2” of spray foam for air sealing then Rockwool. Great video
Post10. Had I not seen that this was your video, I wouldn't have watched it. Now, I'm so glad I did. Very informative.
I guess that’s why they use rockwool to insulate ovens and other high heat applications... it is not fiberglass, it is rock spun like fiberglass.
They use ceramic wool..
Excellent display……. Wow ! Makes me want to sell my house now ! Thank you for the eye opening display ….
I'm glad you posted this test! I just canceled my foam installation project in the attic...just bought rockwool instead.
Spray foam won't burn like that. He used great stuff which is a different type of foam. You canceled a job for no reason because of wrong information.
A plus on your science project
From a fire service perspective this is a great training tool, thank you for making it!
I always wondered what was best too. Thanks for the video, that was cool!
I always thought the spray foam was dangerous, thanks for doing this test!
I burned a Hollow Core bedroom door (found in most homes); the fire was incredible. I couldn't get within 15 ft of my fire pit. THAT would make a cool video!!!
all the interior doors in my house are hollow...
This is very important! My father early in my life taught me about plugging in device's when they are too much load for the socket. My late husband and both my boys had been trained professionally. But non of my girlfriends can answer any questions about electricity. Many have suffered fires and I have put out one electrical issue fire as I was visiting. Yes I believe in having ABC extinguishers available at home. Fire takes over much faster that a person can imagine. Thank you Post 10. I'm sharing this with a few friends. Keep these great videos coming. Take care..
you are so right if you haven't experienced a real fire the average person has no idea how fast a fire spreads it can engulf a room/car/rv in seconds
now i don't know anything about insulation at all but this was hands down really interesting experiment. glad i know now why fiberglass is the go to choice for insulation.
EXCELLENT! I always wondered about the spray insulation and fire!
Actually to give you a little info, I build houses in Texas and all we use is foam. We have had two homes in our town catch fire and nobody knew until the homeowners showed up. The foam houses are so tight that there was not enough oxygen for the fire to keep burning. Fire damage was minor.
Great info...makes sense....fire needs air to run and spread...I just built a hoise in New England and did spray foam exterior walls and fiberglass bats interior and cielings
Other ways to tighten home 😆
Probably nothing worse than spray foam though
@@anthonyman8008 Why do you say that? How about some evidence to back up that claim. At least elaborate on why you think there’s nothing worse than spray foam.
@@kirksatterwhite2473 learn to internet
@@kirksatterwhite2473 just look the video
Reminds me a bit of Grenfell. Pay for the cheapest materials, they burn quicker, if it's just a few cents cheaper per metre (or whatever they base it off), builders will use it sadly. Doesn't mean much if it burns quicker and more likely to spread and kill so long as they shave off some pennys
Fiberglass is the cheap and low-performance one
Grenfell Tower burnt down due to the fire spreading through the exterior walls via the cladding that was installed not via the insulation and the inside walls but yes they did use one of the cheapest cladding materials which was also not rated for the building height.
The Building was constructed in the late 1960s so it's likely that either Asbestos was used as the insulation or at some point was replaced with another low-cost material such as Fiberglass..
Bravo, thank you for quantifying the differences for closed va. Open cell in the north vs. south
I am So glad that I picked fiberglass insulation for the attic.
Having my new house under construction, one of my major decisions was open cell spray foam or rockwool. I live in north Texas. Here in the south, humidity is a huge factor. Thanks for this.
I also live in Texas, they did open cell in my place two days ago
Open cell spray foam loves moisture and growing stuff in it
closed cell spray foam if you can afford is an effective vapor barrier and is also has a class 1 fire rating.. meaning it is self extinguishing. it will only burn in the presense of constant flame exposure.. do not fear spray foam.. do the research .. my home burned 2 years ago, traditional insulation, on rebuild i opted for closed cell and did the whole house.. i made this decision as an active firefighter as well..
Get nice closed cell spray foam. Having R7 insulation, inert AND blocking, and structurally supporting burning stuff is great, along with being a physical barrier. I work with rigid closed cell foam professionally (as high performance foamcore-carbon fiber composite longboards). The stuff doesn’t mess around if you get the right stuff.
The lil can you can buy is nothing like the two-part polyol/isocyanate rigid spray foam that is applied. That stuff (spray foam) is used in fire safe buildings for a reason. It is REALLY good at taking a fire.
If it’s between open cell and rock wool, picking rock wool is the easy choice. If it’s between a nice rigid closed cell foam and rockwool, picking closed cell foam is the easy choice.
Anyways both work very very well and it’s a matter of the one you have is the one you want if you already have one of them.
Fire 🔥 and moving water 💦 are my two favourites and Post 🔟 has both covered. Cheers Kind Sir 👍🏽👍🏽
Thanks for shattering that. Good info!!!
Perfect time to find this. I'm about to insulate my wood shop and was considering the paneling because I can get it super cheap. Rockwood it is
There is a difference in the red fire foam. It’s rated for fire and is intumescent. It expands when it gets hot so as the fire try’s to burn a bigger hole, the foam keeps filling. Fire Caulk is the most common for top plates and bottom plates.
Great demo. One thing to note…
In most cases. commercially applied spray foam is a different formula that includes fire retardant. Different than what comes in a can.
Fire foam that we use around piping and other things is red coming out of the can
Sorry ,also known as fire stop
@@private8559 Great stuff out of a can is not fire retardant. You are spreading misinformation. Closed cell insulation does not burn like this.
@@private8559 Well, that Great Stuff in this example burned pretty hot, so there is that.
I've used the red firestop stuff successfully as tinder in a fireplace.
As someone who got out just in time from a building on fire I can't overstate the importance of taking this into account.
Love your videos man. Thanks for this comparison. Just recently bought my first home and have been binging like crazy on diy and insulation videos.. I wish other diy and builder channels would do this kind of comparison. Also love all of your culvert draining videos. Been watching your videos for sometime now.
fun fact, very finely ground and divided solids will combust regardless of material, even metal can combust when very finely divided
As can sand.
Grain Silo Explosions.
@@blipco5 I'm pretty sure, sand cannot burn. It's already burnt.
@@voidseeker4394 Some highly energetic chemicals can react with/burn sand. Being silicon dioxide, there is oxygen available in it. But unless you store incredibly nasty fluorine compounds in your home, there should be no problem.
Metal fires are very fun though, because any attempt to put them out with water will often break that water into hydrogen and oxygen and blow you right up.
@@Knuspabrot you're talking about extremely rare situations that don't happen in real life. flourine compounds will react catastrophically in high temperature long before it can react with glass powder. flourine compounds are nasty and will react with everything even at room temperature
I got to see testing like this at underwriters labs years ago on a school field trip. They burnt a 2 story house inside a giant warehouse.
Also, they tested how fast flame spread Horizontally for most material.
Exceptional video. Well-defined testing. Absolutely great.
I would like to see a simulation of an overloaded circuit and the burn rate on that. Not sure how you would rig that in a safe way but it would be interesting. Thank you for your informative collection of videos. I admire your awareness and effort to help the community as a whole to get out there and unclog drains and keep things out of the drains and clean in general.
Great job and keep posting 10
It’s good to see you uploading a video like this Post. It brings to light the inherent downfalls of certain insulations. It teaches people who may not know or realize these dangers. I would however like to bring something to your attention about a big difference between Rockwool and fibreglass. Fibreglass holds water like a sponge when it’s wet, thereby losing all of its insulating properties. Rockwool on the other hand, allows water to pass straight through and doesn’t lose its insulating properties. This is only one of the benefits of Rockwool over fibreglass. I won’t get into the issues of fibreglass sagging over time and creating voids in your walls. That’s a whole other can of worms.
Very, very scary how relatively small the panels were and how fierce the fire and big and dark the smoke plumes were. Can't imagine how that effect would multiply with more material to burn.
foam can burn so intensely, it can stop burning due to smothering itself.
... until it gets air again... then it erupts right back into it.
Already happened at least twice