What grows better mushrooms?
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- Опубликовано: 10 апр 2021
- There's been a lot of take lately about pine or softwood fuel pellets (SWFP) being bad for growing mushrooms on. This is not the case. I almost exclusively use SWFP, and get great yields. This video is a comparison of softwood to hardwood fuel pellets (HWFP). The HWFP is an American Oak, and the SWFP is Pinus Radiata grown in NZ. This species is considered an invasive species in NZ, and grows in huge numbers in the wild. Master mix is the substrate of choice, as it is a very high performer.
The test shows that SWFP is a viable option, performing only slightly worse than the HWFP.
HWFP came in at an average of 0.674g, and SWFP came in at an average of 0.62g. SWFP second flush came in at an average of 0.377g.
This means I get a nearly 1kg on average for every 4.8kg block, that has 2kg of dry substrate in it.
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Hey team, I actually mix my bags by weight, not by volume as I mentioned in the video. I was confused at the time of filming. I mix the bags and weigh them on a scale after I add pellets, then soy, then water.
interesting to see! I live in Vic and I get organic sustainable HWFP from Tasmania by the pallet. I've had some great success, with oysters and nameko on them :)
Do you get more mushrooms (fruiting) if you have more holes in your bag? For example, if I did a similar setup as you but had holes on top and bottom or in the back, would I get more yields?
@@Jason-33W hey dude i can answer this! You probably womt get more yeild but in some cases, the more holes means more air exchange, which can speed up colonization, in this set up it might not be the case, but in something such as buckets for growing, more holes around the sides, and maybe 1 at the bottom for drainage covered with micropore tape will help ensure maximum colonization speeds, and help avoid contamination. Adding extra holes after colonization wont increase yeild, but may provide a larger first flush in different growing techniques
@@willbeasley2077 Thanks! Great advice and knowledge to share.
How much water do you add per weight?
Bag slapping is just an innate human trait, compost, barley, malt, animal feed, wood pellets apparently. Brilliant stuff!
I love a good slap. Just feels right...
😂
@@OakandSpore slap the bag like in slapping a booty
Im^^
Doesn't just include bags, don't forget the HK slap
Thank you so much for making this! I can get softwood easily and cheap while hardwood is way more expensive, this puts to rest my worries about not having hardwood 👍
Very interesting comparisons. Thank you for going to all this work to produce usable data. Thanks for posting
i'm very late to the party, but i may have an answer to your final question : Variability in yields.
- I used tyndallization like you do in this video until recently, and also had variability in yields.
- I bought a real autoclave recently and the variability disappeared.
So i went back to tyndallize a few bags until i got one with lower yields to send to the lab, in which they found 2 strains of bacterias, dead. I think the bags aren't always sterilized with this method so the mycelium has to fight foreign bodies, even if it wins, the bacterias or whatever has already "eaten" some ressources and weakened the mycelium (since he has to use ressources to produce antibiotics).
The lab showed me the slices they did, and there were obvious zones with no mycelium and different color (where they found the bacterias), you may want to carefully slice your substrates that gave less yields to visually check this.
Very very very very very very very interesting! Thank you for this testing! Thank you for all your videos!
Thank you for the support!
Everytime you slapped a bag or tossed one around I cracked up. Also talking smack on American units is greatly appreciated!
Softwood is definitely much more economical for us in NZ then! Thanks for the video :)
Totally agree!
I can't find cheap hardwood pallets or hardwood sawdust here in Brasil. Knowing I actually can use softwood just saved me. Thank you so much.
Hey thanks for this video. I have only soft wood pines at my altitude and I've experimented a bit with some soft wood mulch. Good to see someone else use soft and get an equivalent flush.
#TeamSoftwood!
thanks for the videos man, very useful informations and nice to see how you working in the production
My pleasure!
I'm just loving watching you slap all the things in basically every video, but in this one you're just so slap happy you're just slapping the shit out of everything, I'm just sat here cracking up. Appreciate the effort as always, cheers!
haha nothing like a good bag slap.
What a great experiment! Thank you!
This makes me feel relieved, as hardwood fuel pellets are nonexistant in my country, but pine pellets are abundant.
I use a lot of fir pellets myself! Good job letting others know they can use them too
#TeamFir
Wow! Thank you so much for this, a very interesting experiment with a decent sample size :) I might just try growing oysters on pine cat litter pellets next time lol
It actually works
Awesome! Thanks Dr. Brain!
My pleasure mate!
Thank you. Very thoughtful
Hi, I am so grateful for your video as I live in South Africa and hardwood pellets are impossible to get here. So I'll be trying the pine pellets for sure, never have because everybody reckons they are shit for mushroom substrate. Thanks again and keep it up Bud. Kind regards Marcus Butler Pringle Bay SA
Good luck mate!
How did it work out bud? Did swfp work?
@@joshsmit7323 Hi Josh yes the pine pellets work like a bomb, with Oysters I don't even sterilise I soak the pellets in Hydrated lime and a bit of Gypsum for 30 hrs drain for about 2 hrs 10% bran sterilised in micro for 10 mins and pack bags that's it.
I am JHB how did you get on with the pinewood?
@@nashdaflash Not as well as i would have liked gone back to hardwood shavings
I was trimming the cluster stems as well and using them for stock till I saw Wicked Kitchens Mushroom stake.. GAME CHANGER... that cluster stem is GOLD
Great video! Thanks 😊
Glad you liked it!
Epic video. Was just the info I was looking for. What are your pasteurization temps and times that you are achieving? I have access to a lot of Douglas fir wood chips here in the US. I think it is similar to Pine, so I am eager to do some experimentation. Thanks again for the continent. It’s great super helpful.
Awesome post
So educative
hi! love your vids! I am curious if you find differences in taste between the two. I know this can't be a quantitative measure but it's nonetheless relevant imo. Another thing I was thinking about is that your yield maybe could improve in the future if you breed the strain specifically for growing on the softwood. Maybe that can make up the difference
No taste difference!
We appreciate the experiment. Tnx🤗
No worries!
Thank you very much for all this experiment!!! I want to ask the following: in my area( Europe -Greece) it's very hard to find hardwood pellet. Is it possible to grow oysters SOLELY on softwood pellet? Thanks in advance!
Thanks for the vid. I enjoy your channel. Didn't know if you mentioned it in the video but what size bags are you using? I've heard that the Phoenix Mushroom grew on pine and that Hericiums do as well. I grow mostly on straw. HW pellets are over priced for smokers vs the HW fuel pellets that I can't get here. And soy pellets are also hard to get in my area. So I'd like to see more interesting alternative choices for substrate. Thanks again and keep up the good work!
I use Unicorn XLT for this. I have grown very good coral tooth on pine as well. We don't have lions mane here, but coral tooth is it's cousin.
Looks like a fun hobby. I gather my share in the Pacific NW - Pounds of them :-) Thanks for taking the time to share your expertise - Cheers from Seattle ! 🍻
Some suggested that wood pellets don't need to be sterilized, as the process of turning sawdust into pellets means they're already sterilized. This might be a good news for people growing mushrooms at home.
Awesome video! I've wanted to experiment with softwood as all the literature seems to advocate only hardwood. Never really understood why. Good to know, that at least for oysters it works well! Thanks for the content.
Softwood actually does work for a lot of species, more than what people think.
@@OakandSpore Lion's Mane and Chestnut? Probably not Shiitake.
I’m struggling to find any hardwood sources up here in Akld. Will definitely give soft wood a go
@@OakandSpore Which species are viable for softwood ?
Oh here we go, finally!
Awesome video! now i would like to start my own booth at my local farmers market. I was thinking of Lions mane to start. Can you do a video on the business side and how to get one going? thank you
super interesting!!!
Hey mate, I've got 2 questions 1.) What's the weight of the grow bags? 2.) Can you grow Chestnut mushroom on softwood?
I'm still laughing at your comments... Great video Mate! I'm going to watch all of them. Thanks for making them,
When you started slapping those bags, I wasn’t sure if I was gonna be watching a mushroom video, or something a little different LOK
THANK YOUUUUUU!
love this tipe of experiment and vid, can i ask what is the temperature and the umidity for your incubation?
keep doing great stuff !
temps around 22c, humidity around 40% for incubation.
Have you tried using Eucalyptus sawdust ? What were the results, positives and negatives?
Awesome video. Thanks. Question: I'm wanting to put down some wood chips in my garden and mix in my spent mushroom substrate. I was under the impression it had to be hardwood and definitely not pine. But from your video, maybe it doesn't matter so much? Softwood/pine wood chips might be OK for garden mushis?
LIS, If you tried it let me know, im wondering the same, have access to free Fir sawdust i could grow mushrooms in (wine cap) but have only used straw before that i had to buy.
Could it be that the softwood soaks up more moisture than the hardwood hence the slow uptake of the mycyllium? Just a thought
Mate do you reckon you could use pine shavings or chips instead of pellets?
hey PLEASE let us know what oyster variety you used? I'm currently working on a phoenix oyster on pine
Lol, that bag slappin!
you rok man! inspiring me to build my own farm here in medico city
I just did a bunch of oyster bucket grows on un-supplemented softwood chip (i got arborist to dump) mixed with cardboard. 500gram 1st flush in the bathroom no climate controls. I figure that wasn't bad considering it cost nothing with minimal effort. Good experiment.
That's a good flush from bucket in the bathroom!
why would you grow shrooms in a bathroom :S ?
What about the second flush for hardwood?
Never stop slapping bags, you're a natural
Treat em mean, keep em keen...
I know it's been a few months since ce you posted this. But if I may, throw a hypothesis your way about why your blocks had such varying differences. You probably already figured it out by now but I belive it's due to temperature gradients /zones in your grow room. Also the VPD (vapor pressure deficit) is probably varying inside your fruiting chamber at different levels of your micro climate you've set up.
If you notice, the blocks ranged in size and weight, going from the top shelf to the bottom. What appeared to me was a difference in humidity and temperature levels as to relate to heat rising, cold sinking, and water vapor being dense so at the top where you have it distributed is high in humidity but diminishes as the vapor drops to the ground. Maybe this might be the answer to your problem because your processes, facility and otherwise knowledgability says to me you did everything right. Maybe a tad bit more mixing tho to evenly distribute. Could be you just got tired as you ran through to the end of making the last block lol a workout and a food source. Anyways Mush Love hope I could have helped in some way or another. Thank you for the videos !
Hey, phoenix oyster know to grow on pinewood, I want to know all other oysters also grow on pine wood substrate ?
Like pink oyster,blue Oyster, golden oyster, king trumpet and some other gourmet mushroom ?
Please reply back.
How much yall think the variety of mushroom would make a difference. What kind of mushroom was this
great video as always! more of a serious tone but what can i expect from a scientific experiment. have you considered cooling your incubation room to slow down growth when bags a ready before you need them to be? or potentially having a cooler incubation room for eager bags... just a thought...
I have, but the energy costs and setup costs behind running a cooler room would be quite high. The bags are cheap to manufacture, so if there is problems it isn't too bad.
@@OakandSpore oh yeah fair enough i forget other countries actually have nice warm weather... i imagine most of my costs would be heating the rooms to get to the perfect temps.
hi great video.... When the temp goes up to 29 do you do anything to cool it down or do you just leave it and keep RH high?
Fruiting a species that tolerates higher temps, is a possibility, or brute force it and crank your aircon to 21 to save yr shitake.
But the costs..... better to work with the seasons than against. Heard a lot of people struggle with this and even planning your species for seasons can be difficult. What's yr thoughts?
Pine pellets sold as cat litter at my local big name supermarket: £4.50 for 10l. Produced decent 1st flush P. ostreatus (Masters mix). Currently trying Lions mane on it. Keep on spanking!
Good work! Cat litter, the perfect substrate!
Watch out for any additives that might put into it.
Good point. Better check that.
Thanks for sharing this! Exactly what I was thinking of trying, I'm even more reassured now
You’re welcome! Lions mane doing well on it now, supplemented with wheat bran. LM runs really fast! Still not certain if this brand has any binding agents.
Does softwood pellets work on King Oysters?
Great vid- one question I was left with is: did the hardwood blocks not yield a second flush? I know that some growers absolutely get a hardwood second flush
They haven't second flushed yet, I'll make a video about it when they do!
@@OakandSpore so did you end up getting a second flush on your hard wood blocks? I am asking cause i grow italian oysters on eucalyptus pellets and hardly do i ever get a second flush
What if next time you make in home the wood chips from hard and soft wood instead of buying it? (I don’t think you can make wood pellets) I believe that some companies that make wood pellets are not trustable at 💯 because they maybe are mixing their product with other ingredients so that’s why you don’t see to much difference after the experiment…
It looks like this is the Phoenix Oyster, which grows well on pine. Would you recommend growing other species on pine? Love your videos. Thank you for sharing your knowledge!!
I grow pink, velvet, phoenix, coral tooth, and have grown shiitake on pjne
Were those 5kg substrate bags?
For the mushrooms that end up overgrown... what do you do with them if you can't sell them? If it was me.... I'd make mushroom jerkey!
Hey Tom, curious. would I be able too use pasteurized hickery pellets alone as a substrate?
I honestly have no idea. You'll want to add some sort of nitrogen additive, maybe soy hulls or wheat bran. Unless the hickory has some natural antifungal like walnut does, then it should work. We don't really have hickory here in NZ.
Very nice to see are you thinking on trying other types of mushrooms in softwood vs hardwood. I kinda have the same problem in terms of price hardwood here is insanely expensive i can literally buy 100 kg of softwood for the same price of 15 kg of hardwood.
Why use hardwood when you do't need to!
@@OakandSpore Yeah that is true but im just getting started growing mushrooms at home and everywhere i look they always say dont use softwood, i was actually gonna get some softwood for testing because im not paying that insane price for the hardwood, but this video showed me exactly what i was looking for
@@SUPERMILKPOTATOES make shure you use phoenix oyster mushroom
....and all I could focus on is the john dory on your shirt....😂
Best table fish, hands down.
why are you wearing a respirator? thanks!
I there a difference in taste for mushrooms grown on different substrates?
probabaly yeah but its almost nothing the biggest difference is in the yeald i think
Brown/italian strain can really grow on softwood
Have you tried growing on pine sawdust/shavings from a local sawmill or other form of pine other than pellets? I just can't wrap my head around why pelletization transforms pine into a viable substrate, does the toxic pine oils evaporate in the process? Or what do you think happens?. Love your channel
Would love to know that too
As an amateur grower I'd say that there is no difference between the pellets and sawdust. The pellets are just compressed together and they turn back into dust when they absorb moisture. The pine resin is essentially an anti fungal that helps protect the tree. Phoenix oysters specifically are known to be able to grow on pine. I am not yet aware of other species
I haven't finished the whole video yet I just got to the point where he introduced the mushrooms. All I have to say is Phoenix is known for preferring softwoods.
You should try the “goat mix” by mossy creek mushrooms
Let me know if I buy 10 bags how much it's cost., how much is the cost of shiping?
Is it posible to grow lions mane in pine softwood pellets
Try using a cement mixer to blend your sub-straight with water.
Because finding specific wood sawdust or pellets imposible in india but recently I have found organic pinewood pellets in pet store. pleased let me know is it possible to grow pink oyster on pinewood pellets.
Yes its possible. I use pine for pink oyster.
Mossy Creek said they had better success with softwood for lion's mane. They said that it actually out-performed the hardwood.
Hey, great video. I was wondering if anyone had success using softwood for growing lions mane. I'm trying it right now and waiting for the results.
Successful here. Only pasteurised, no supplement. Yiealds of 12% first flush
I'm that guy. Pounds forever!! LoL. Would be an interesting test to do the same, but with pasteurized substrate.
I love a good pounding...
Inoculate at a rate of 2% so for every 1000gm (1kg) you are are using 20gm of grain mix, correct?
Have heard many different % rates used, even all the way up to 20%.
Yes. If you pasturise with lime you need to use 10-20%, if you sterilize with steam you can drop it right back to 2%ish.
@@OakandSpore Good to know, for my first test run (yet to set up properly controlled.. Well anything) did very little sterilisation, and just used oak and soy pellets that were heat treated in there making, no extra lime or pasteurisation.. used about 200gm of grain mix to every 1000gm substrate, to basically overwhelm anything else that would want to compete.. Seemed to work okay, but not the way I would like to go long term.
Doesn't it depend on what kind of mushrooms your growing? For example, naturally lions mane mushroom grows on hardwood, so in this case I'd imagine hard wood would be superior
ideally yes, not required but hardwood is so much better..if my only choice were pine pellets..a sappy wood I'd be growing on straw before SW.
and Straw just sucks ass...not for the mushroom but for working with..straw is horrible to work w...its like sand..it gets everywhere on you an in clothes.
I wldnt rule out ever using SW, but as in this vid as example...pick atleast day sooner...Large wavy yet Flat as paper caps, in my area is un appetizing...and such a short shelf life.
Basically I wld not if other options are available, with Oysters being Oysters...Almost Anything can be a substrate... literally anything...what's big in your area besides SW or straw..lol
How do you prepare the substrate with pellets? Do you add any gypsum or any other thing or you only use de moisted pellets as the only substrate?
I use two tablespoons of gypsum mixed in.3 litres boiling water poured over 2 kilo of wood pellets.seal and cover with a blanket
@@royallan3717, no wheat bran at all?
@@JorgeMartinez-bruy 200 grams of wheat bran, just prepared one 2 minutes ago and had to up the boiling water
@@royallan3717, thanks for sharing your knowledge. Greetings from Uruguay, South America!
@@JorgeMartinez-bruy most welcome and all the best of luck growing….New Zealand
cool, Now do pre mixed vs in the bag
I might just do that!
@@OakandSpore Also Cutting the bags in a k shape vs a square. 30% hardwood and soy vs 60% softwood and soy. Top fruiting lions mane, cold weather mushrooms, and crossbreeding mushrooms. Thank you lol
Canada here, cracked me up with the pounds comment
You better use metric, Canada... Don't make me google it to check!
@@OakandSpore lol, yep, metric. The scale that actually makes sense lol.
Also is pine the one with antifungal oils?
Yes, but I think they are removed during the pelletisation process...
@@OakandSpore have you tried growing on pine sawdust from a local sawmill or other form of sawdust other than pellets?
We use pounds. N America is a lot about profit now not quality so ur wood is probably better and definitely u get more in yours . I hate how profit driven we Americans are.. much love many blessings and as always smile
Pleurotus ostreatus var. florida might be an interesting species for you.
Its a white colored pleurotus ostreatus which only fruits at warm temperatures.
It's not allowed in NZ.
@@OakandSpore What there a banned species in NZ?
So a "normal" pleurotus ostreatus is allowed but a variety from another county is banned?
I recently started to clone or take spore prints of wild mushrooms.
(At the moment pleurotus pulmonarius, pleurotus ostreatus and flammulina velutipes)
I try to isolate a new strain with the spores :)
Best regards from austria! Love your videos!
I want to buy your fruit of bags of mushroom, so how much it's cost per bag and how much is the shiping cost?
Are you in NZ?
Watch out you might get a strike with all that hard wood slapping 😂
Who on earth uses pounds. The same place that has six flags on the moon and still has their guns. ‘Merica!
i was wondering i started to make Oyster Mushroom and at a piont a lot of people wanna by my Oyster Mushroom , but this is all new to me and i started out waching your videos . here in the netherlands in supermarkets i see 150 grams for 1.60 euro . could you maybe give me advice for a price for like gram ratio to euro and perhaps whats ideal for a portion size , i have nobody in this field that can give me advice
is impossible for someone tell the rigth price of your mushroom.. only if he live in our city and know how much you pay for make that mushroom can give you a range of price.. he is from newzeland he probably don't know how much euros cost a liter of milk.. i am from italy and in italy the price is different by areas
egion.. and also change for the tipe of buyer... supermarket pay very low but buy big, littel fruit shop or resturant pay more and buy medium, singel citizen pay a lot but buy small..
also the tipe of mushroom make the price.. pack is base on the tipe of mushroom, can go to 100g to 500g.. at the market you sell what they ask, at the resturant you give box from 2 kg to 20kg tipe of mushroom and size of resturant matters.. ask at google in olland lenguage, browse for blog in our leanguage, look at what price you can buy the same mushroom in that moment, is the best shot you have to have an ideea.. bye
Oysters, €8,-/kg
King oysters €9,-/kg
Shiitake €10,-/kg
Oysters: 1,99 per 250gr
Shiitake: 99ct per 100gr
Prices from the market inGroningen
How much is a pound of oyster mushrooms,lion's mane and shiitake sold on farmers market approximately ? Greetings from New York!
Oyster is about $40 NZD per KG.
@@OakandSpore
Thx for replying! Keep up the great videos 🙂
👍👍👍
3:15 Why would you do it by volume! At least do the soft vs hardwood have the same weight of dry substrate in them? ... In my experience what seems to matter a bit more is fruiting room conditions, some places in the room just give beautiful mushrooms and others not so much. Anyway, great experiment! can't wait to see more.
I read the pinned comment haha nevermind.
Might want to overlay corrections where you have g instead of kg in your tables.
I do that to confuse Americans..
All the American BBQ fans silently thinking about ruining a brisket smoking with soft wood. Lol
That tasty pine flavor... Might work?
In my Mushroombook : Fist Thing....Hardwood IS good..
I was always told to mix masters mix by weight 🤔
I actually do mine by weight as well.. I got it wrong in the video.
I live in the us and I'm laughing my ass off of what your saying about us about the pellets
I love me some good pellets!
Maybe you can sell the mushrooms that look a little less good with a discount.
Mushrooms do like optimum disturbance
I know shiitake do, but have never seen a correlation with disturbance and oysters....
who on earth uses pounds... thank you it was bound to be said XD, nice video pal