Shop Talk: Is Wheel Balancing Worth It?
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- Опубликовано: 11 мар 2019
- Are you losing efficiency by not balancing your wheels? How balanced is balanced enough? What do you need to consider? Is it even possible to achieve perfect balance? Calvin and Truman argue about these things and more, and try to balance a wheel for themselves.
Questions or comments? Leave them below!
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Хобби
My wallet needs balance after I browse Park Tools...
Park is the Harley Davidson of bike tools. I have some tools I bought literally 35 years ago
At least, these are mainly made in the US not rubish tools made in China.
Park hand tools are pretty affordable, at least where they're made. There's far more expensive tools on the market. Would you rather buy Chinese made landfill that may barely finish the job one time?
If Park is expensive in your country find good stuff that fits your budget. Chea tools won't last long.
Good tools are an investment. I have reasonably priced good tools I have been using for decades. I use some of my grandfather's US made tools. They still work perfect. Talk about long term value!
Lol if you used tools everyday for a living you'd be calling park tools stuff very reasonably priced. I'm guessing you've never purchased or shopped for snap on, matco, cornwell or Mac tools... You'd be shocked.
linglingjr I worked on this crazy 5 axis machine 'tool' that cost $800k. Theres some expensive tools out there. It had a built in CMM inspection system so it could inspect its own work. We had it laser calibrated every 3 months.
Weight Weenies will faint when they see you added 12gr. to a rim.
Xaver von Treyer
If weight wenie uballanced 12g can be horible in terms of handling at high speeds.
Morten Reippuert Knudsen Weight weenies are usually not very fast and on the fat side. I speak from personal experience...
They will faint because they eat one meal every three days.
Drill holes in the rim then.
Couldn't possibly go wrong.
I don't ride it... I just spend time in the shed drilling holes in it, and posting lists on Web forums.
Lately I have been filling the tires with helium.
Exactly why I scrubbed my efforts to balance mine!
I balance my aero (55mm) road wheels on my aero road bike. I have found it to make a big difference at really high speed in terms of limiting the terrifying resonance an aero road bike can get at 50mph. It's fairly common here in Texas where the really high speed descents are often dead straight and on chip seal roads.
How do you balance?? What products do you use?
@@gersonFls7 ruclips.net/video/Rgj9Wsncx44/видео.html
I had a cheap bike many years ago and the vibration from the front tire bothered my hands. I have nerve problems when dealing with vibrations. I balanced the wheels with the tires off and marked the heavy side, then put the tire on without removing the weight and found the heavy part of the tire. I removed the weight and mounted the tire heavy side opposite the heavy side of the wheel and that was good enough. I think the answer to "is wheel balancing worth it" is if there is a problem that it will solve then yes, if there is no problem then no.
this series of videos is amazing. really gave me the confidence to go out and buy the tools I need instead of passing it off to some third party to repair
Is Calvin available for life coaching sessions? Asking for a friend.
I was expecting all the video to see you overlooking the tyre unbalance, but not! you are really great at what you do guys!
I work as a bike mechamic in Decathlon i’ve learned a lot of bikes in the past 1 year thanks to your youtube channel. I’ m saving up for a roadbike so I can go to work by bike. I ride a bmx and I couldn’t balance my wheels but i think it doesnt affect my riding.
I'm bicycle mechanic from Russia. I very like to see your videos. And this video is very funny.: )
does it relate to an alcohol in the spot? )
@@grafspirt Looool
ROAD BIKE: I just bought my first pair of DT Swiss carbon wheels and to my surprise, once mounted on the bike, both wheels bounced so much I was disappointed at first. But then soon added small strips of self-adhesive lead weights (for golf clubs) and managed to reach a very good result! I didn´t even remove the wheels from the bike, took me 10 minutes...
Had a slightly imbalanced deep section wheel. Sticked on some lead strips on the inner rim. Only like 3grams
Made a huge diffrence on high speed descents. Since it was a carbon rim, the imbalance transferred quite harshly onto the handlebars. Now I have more confidence, more control and less fatigue during higher speeds. It also feels smoother, nicer and more efficient. Cornering usually doesn't happen at these high speeds where grip could be lessened with an imbalanced wheel, but nevertheless it does technically increase grip
Did the exact same to one of my alu wheels. Found myself slowing down quicker then before on a straight. Didn't know what was going on untill I put the bike in a stand. Had quite the wobble. So I bought a new set of wheels. Then ordered some golf club balancing weight stickers and started balancing the wheel. After I was done it felt brand new again.
Exactly similar experience here. Riding downhill outside Boulder moderately fast (85 km/h) got harmonic resonance (speed wobble) so bad was loosing control and going across solid line into path of pickup truck. Barely gathered it in but scared the hell out of me. Learned to balance using the golf club weights. This is not really an issue for MTBers.
I was so distracted by the balance while riding my fat bike I got cloths lined by a tree branch. True story.
I had a terrible speed wobble, descending last season, with my tcr carbon wheels. I am running conti 5k 28, will wheel balance for sure this season for safety.
Just balance my life. Great video guys, keep up the great work!
An old boss when I was at the start of my mechanical career indicated that at higher speeds up on a bike stand, you’d always have a bit of resonance somewhere from exaggerated weight increases from torsional forces exacted on things like- tube manufacturing thickness, valve weight, reflector on the wheel. He never presented me with evidence for this, but it’s always been logically sound in my mind. I think it’s definitely a factor! Love the tech vids guys, you’re some pair on screen :)
For all the guys at park tool, thank you for all of your video aids. However, I have a few questions about suspension setup for trail bikes,, please cover that topic next. Thank you.
Used to do it on my motorcycle racing wheels, never on my bicycle wheels. On the motorcycle it made the ride smoother. On my road bicycle, IF I had a "front end wobble" it was always my head set. EXCELLENT EXPLANATION!!
I've been obsessed with this ever since I saw a mechanic balancing my moto wheels after a tire change.
Awesome video guys. If I was competing at a very high level on a 30mph speed machine I would balance before an important event. But hey, I'm old and slow and just ride to work mostly. A video about the balance impact of sealant in the tires would be fun.
I use lead tapes to balance my road bike tubeless wheels because the tubeless valves are pretty heavy. I think the improvement in traction and cornering stability is pretty noticeable, and it is a very cheap and easy upgrade.
Guys I trust you, you could have made a 2 second video saying "no" 😂
Definitely when I ride I feel the imbalances on the sharp corners. I like being grounded.
you 👍 .
Great video! I think I'll add "Pro Wheel Balance" to the service menu and charge customers a case of beer per wheel. 🤔
Well with the price of a truing stand, I would charge some real cash lol :=)
Great video folks! Thanks
Yes, I do balance my bikes wheels and recheck ever couple of month for rebalancing if needed. I do use lead tape (golf clubs) instead because it is more versatile. Besides, i do the whole process why inflated and ready to use tire and wheel. This could be more accurate, from my perspective. Please advice if I am right. Please keep posting great vids.
Fun video! Thanks for the lesson.
Balanced a wheel because it bothered my OCD, when I was done I still was the slowest in my group ride but my itch was cured and it was a fun experience figuring it out.
man, my wheels are unbalanced and I'm sure that like you if I do balance them i will still be the slowest in my group lol
CDO, it’s like OCD, but with the letters in the correct order.
If you're serious about wheel balancing, it has to be pH balancing all the way.
When I first balanced my wheels, with the same tailwind on the road, my best effort average speed in my favourite ~3min strava sector went from 41.6km/h to 46.2km/h. It's like aerodynamics, the faster you go the more wheel balance matters for performance. I've also got the 2nd fastest time in the fastest local sector that requires no downhill skill (~70km/h), it's a very popular bit of road here, I'm not all that strong and I did it with box section 32 spoke wheels... that were perfectly balanced.
never ever done it once ever, but now I got a bike I can easily exceed 20mph on, so now I am wanting to think more about this.
I just balanced my wheels the other day with some motorcycle weights. Because I still run inner tubes on my 26” hardtail (Trek 4900) it was pretty straight forward process. To be honest the only time I can feel the difference is when I ride with speeds above 35-40 km/h or when Im jumping. I definitely do like how the bike feels now.
Ps: All wheel setups are different and it takes different amounts of weight to balance them. For example I managed to balance my Nukeproof Generator wheels almost perfect with some minor tyre adjustments, while the wheel set on my hardtail took 22 grams in total to balance. Thats why I think there are so many different opinions on that topic.
I did. Found a difference of calmness at speed that i hadn't noticed b4. I used tungsten gulf weights. Came down to the frame feeling more planted. But my bike was way way out of balance. Like 30 grams off. So maybe it helped keep my hub bearings from wearing out. Hard to say.
Did a few other guys bikes. They had similar experience. Added a calmness to the bike.
Awesome approach... I'm so in love with you guys now :-D
So I think the question to ask is, is the imbalance due to the wheel being true or to roundness? I believe most imbalance issues in cars are due to the rubber of the tires being imperfect, in any case, the womps should not have a huge effect on watts but might impact your comfort and bearings, maybe suspension as well? If the womps is huge to where it is causing the tire to lose contact then that might be also unsafe 🙂 I can see how you might end up going crazy trying to balance wheels and tires on bike, especially since they change so much
This is playschool for adults, and It's awesome! 😂
I had a speed wobble above 45mph (downhill) which disappeared after I balanced the front wheel on my road bike. Since then I have checked all my wheels and corrected several!
Once I’ve determined the required weight and position of the counterweights (with tyres fitted) I use automotive balancing weights which are self adhesive and stick them on the inside surface of the rim. Then I tape over with electrical tape before installing tyre/tube being careful to put the them in exactly the same position on the wheel again.
No ugly fishing weights on my spokes!
I used to balance the propellers of my Radio Control airplanes on a similar way, takes time and is very important on high RPM.
Hi guys
I balanced my wheels a year ago and rebalance when I rotate tires from front to back and it has made a world of difference in comfort (less buzz in the toshie), handling at speed (you feel the grip of the road better and cuts sharper) and increased my top speed of 84 km/h to 93.25 on the same circuit (conditions were roughly the same as well as originally top speed test and is consistently faster then before.
It’s worth every minute of work, every gram of weight and if your as fussy as I am it’s worth the extra time to put lead golf club weights on the inside of the rim instead.
I was able to custom cut them to a perfect 3.4grms and 3.6grms and since they have glued backs they stick to the inside without worry.
All I can say is, do it, do it oh and do it!!
Oh yes I’m a roadie
Yes it matters in all vehicles with a wheel , on bikes you feel it when you go fast .
On Hybrid I could really feel it when going downhill at 50mph.
Hilarious, thanks guys! In fact, I replaced the valves on my tubeless carbon road wheels with aluminium Muc-Off valves and saved 4g per valve (original 60mm Mavic valve 9g, Muc-Off 60mm valve 5g, both with o-rings and washers). There's definitely less wobble on the stand. I also feel I can climb easier but that's certainly placebo ;)
That’s pretty funny, poking fun at balancing wheels. However, it is more important in the road riding world, particularly in the case of deep sections carbon wheels.
The deeper the section, the longer and greater the mass of the valve stem or valve extender. This relative imbalance towards the valve side is greater in the case of road wheels, because in general as a package (rim, tubular tape, tire, valve cap even, etc.) they are much lighter than MTB wheel systems.
Also, the relative speeds in terms of RPMs of the wheel can be much greater the road, particularly on descents.
For road racing and bmx racing, balancing is a good idea when you change the tire. For casual riding and mountain biking, close is good enough because the wheels will pick up debris as you ride which will then throw off the balance anyway. Given the time, if I had the tire in a truing stand I would spend the time to make sure the spokes are evenly tensioned before spending time balancing. A broken spoke is worse than an out of balance tire.
Yes i Do , I am a roady and I only balance the wheels after I have the Tube, tyre, cassette installed and it is inflated it to the proper pressure .
If you do this with a Tubeless Tire then it might not be worth the time .
Some companies make bike wieghts to balance wheels but i believe you can do it properly with golf club lead tapes.
As a bike tourer I had never bother with balancing my wheels just made sure they were built strong. Now I'm curious about one thing: do pro cyclists do balance their wheels? Thanks to you Park Tool.
I think it's important, really helps with handling, descents and stability, specially with deep section wheels, however, manufacturers do a good jobs in the design, so that the wheels are more or less balanced on common setups, that's why you don't notice it and think it's not important, but ask a motorsport person about it and they will tell you about it, the easy way is to do it with speed sensors magnets, one per wheel, adjusting the distance from the hub, no hassle, no weights, no drama 👌
Oddly satisfying. Thanks for posting.
Fun and informative. Nice style. You should gather a team of professional cyclists: track, road and mountain; take their best bikes and progressively worsen the balance of the front wheel, and then in a separate trial the rear, and see at what point each of them tells you they can tell the slightest difference in feel or performance.
This is so good I am running to the store for beer :)
The CPSC was on to something with mandated reflectors. They are perfectly calibrated to balance any wheel ;)
I've played with this idea on my road bike wheels. Only difference is I knew the tire and air would make a difference. Also where the weight was put made a difference on how much of a difference it made. Lighter weight on the outside of the tire was more effective than heavier weight on the spoke. As a compromise in my balancing plan was to place weights inside the rim under the rim tape. How did I do that you ask ? LOL I cut up 2 dimes, yep for 20 cents and a couple of hours (taking tires on and off) on a rainy day I had perfectly balanced wheels that made no difference in anything. Smooth road was still smooth and rough still sucked.
Another idea if you really want to try it yourself would be to use tire liners but only use small pieces where you think the weight is needed but remember to start with a fully inflated tire first. This a lot easier with tubes, trying all this tubeless would be a nightmare. Only good thing is on the bike stand at full speed but rear doesn't bounce. 👍
Funny and instructional. Loved it!
Thanks good info
pls do more video like this
i have a motorized bicycle an run inner tube tires. i always balancing them if i have to change a tire or tube. it may be silly to balance them but i feel it helps minimize vibration an wear.
Love this show!!
I balanced a road wheel to get rid of annoying resonance that occurred at certain speeds. Didn’t clearly make me faster but removed a distraction above 25 MPH
A remake of "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"
Thanks for the memories!
In my opinion, I feel it does matter! Wheel balance is important but only to a point. If there is a slight vibration, I would have to say there is really no effect on my riding. I’ve actually ridden a mountain bike with BOTH wheels imbalanced very slightly for quite a while and haven’t noticed any serious problems with handling or suspension. However, once the balance does become slightly noticeable (as demonstrated in this video at certain points) this can slightly alter the handling (depending on what type of bike you ride). In conclusion I believe that it’s not completely necessary, unless you truly notice a disturbance in the ‘force’.
Car tire balancers generally only balance at low speed (15mph) and more for wear than comfort. So unless you balance every ride, and after you have displaced the sealant, you will not get great results if using good quality hubs, rims and tires. If you have more affordable wheels, you may get a smoother ride as the quality control may be a factor. So unless you have very noticeable vibration on the bike stand, not worth the pain, you may increase the vibration by default. Good luck, and bring beer, you will need a drink... Love the content Cheers
I balanced my TT wheels, at high speed yes no wobble. Best thing I can take from this is, i know how to balance wheels now. Golf club lead weights work a treat...
I half way thought this was a serious video till the end! You guys should've saved us the time 😅
If someone rides the bike for speed, balanced tires may be important.
I was shocked as some spokes get lose on my 28mph e-bike (250 miles after the bike came fresh from the factory and the DMV for the initial certification;
two sheets of paperwork filled to the utmost and nobody checked the tires).
If you plan to go over 30mph regularly, it may be a good idea to attend more attention to your ride.
For slow riding: no it isn't worth if the bike handling isn't affected, you still may get slower
9:20 goosebumps man, goosebumps!!!
The only time I've ever noticed wheel imbalance while riding was when I was bombing down a steep paved road at 53mph. It was very apparent! But I've also done like 42 on a dirt road in moab and didn't notice anything. I figure for the most part if you're running tubeless sealant it probably balances it the tire when in motion. Just like semi-trucks use plastic pellets in their tires to balance them.
I have a cheap hybrid (~USD100) (MACH CITY MUNICH SINGLE SPEED). The wheel was totally not balanced but it wasn't noticeable in the ride.
Still my curiosity balanced it years ago.
Ride fatigue went down drastically the next day (the wheel was just a little more off than the one in the video without the wrench)
Braking power improved somehow.
The ride became stable at 40+ KMPH
I got a used bike from someone that had balanced the back wheel with loose copper sheets wrapped around 5 different spokes some had multiple strips and he was very proud of him self for fixing the bike... I haven't touched it and it works ok but if I need to fix anything on that wheel they are all coming off.
I think the axle is just bent.
If I spent a lot of time riding as fast as possible over either super bumpy terrain or doing massive jumps I would consider balancing the wheel as that stays consistent. The tires just come off to much for me to consider balancing it with those and the sealant/tube, however if I was riding pro and half a second on a five minute ride means something then I would consider balancing with the tire and just remember the position of it on the rim and make sure the bead is seated on the rim 110% correctly
I have a good few wheels with heavy spots which work like your test rig there without fitting special flushed bearings.
From watching them pendulum, indeed the heavy spot is the valve. Saw no need to balance the weight of a valve.
I balance every bike by first removing the stupid wheel reflectors, then making sure the tire is evenly seated on the rim. Always works for me. Also making sure that the rim is trued and not flattened out anywhere.
Just turn your bike upside down on the floor and spin the wheels at a reasonably fast speed. If the bike starts jumping then it needs to be fixed.
unreasonably*
common spelling error
@@anooshsoni2948 The equivalent of riding at 100mph of course
@@albr4 EXACTLY!
Your bike should never be turned upside down unless, of course, you are underneath it.
@@robtk3 I am not doing this out of spite
I can’t lie; the part of the video I was waiting the most for was 5:30 - Calvin and Truman finally drink their beers 😄
Root,that is, as in Root beer. Trust us, no drinking on the job.
@@parktool We need a Park Tool After Hours
Static vs. Dynamic balance. I fluid balance with GreenSlime , be sure to remove the big spoke reflectors is the first step.
I bet of a lot of problems have been resolved in this way and what a way to do it! Having a drink, milling over the problem then, yeah that's it, in progress working towards, good methodology! I am a thumbs up!
It made me a more patient person balancing my own wheels.
I balanced my old tubular 808s for my TT bike with some golf club weights and felt no difference for the speeds I ride for the amount of weight it took. I scrubbed the mission. I am flummoxed, however, as to why wheel makers don’t seem to take into account that tubulars with a valve added will not be very balanced.
A great episode! More beer files!
Funny how I balanced my rear wheel on my bike yesterday and today I see this video. It was useful, above 25km/h speed the whole bike was bouncing before balancing. After it was smooth and joyful so thanks for the tip using fishing weights. Now I used nuts in the valve stem; exact heavy point was opposite the valve.
Actually you should use Lead Golf Club weights. Stick them to the rim.
Also worth checking wheel is even circular? Bad spoke tension = egg = inbalance?
Yes, even if the weight is balanced, the wheel can be out of true and that have a more noticeable effect on stability
This! Back when I worked as a car mechanic I'd tell people it a was a waste of time trying to balance an egg, they couldn't understand why I'd recommend a pair or set of tires to correct a vibration.
Imbalance. Sorry, it's a compulsion...
Brilliant!
About 20 years ago there was a guy who did this locally, small cut up pieces of lead and crazy glue. To each his own
thank you
I have 4 bicks and all wheels were built by hand and I never balance my wheels I just make sure I true them properly all the way around .but thanks for the new info
Hilarious! Made my day. Funny, the watching the wheel turn with a sip of beer. Comic genius (well, almost).
I suggest you use lead Golf club weights. Not only are they malleable, but also come with an adhesive backing that you can put on/under tire strip so they are ultimately a clean look, absolutely no outside weights on rim or spoke. Works incredibly well on road wheels.
I could see as an issue with a road bike. For my Mt bike if it was really bad I maybe would look into it but I've had no issues up to 45mph with just a slight unbalance. Enduro bike with 2.6, 27.5 tires set up tubeless. Fun video though.
Danny Hart's old bike! Very cool piece.
I caught a serious speed wobble straight out of the neutral zone in a state champ road race a few years ago. It only happened that one time & I haven't been able to reproduce it. Headset & wheel bearings had the appropriate preload. My assumption is that the harmonic imbalances in both wheels alined so as to produce the wobble. I can't stand to add weight to my race wheels, so unless it reoccurs I've done nothing about it.
The advantage of going tubeless is epic but one tge great things is balance! As you ride the semi liquid E goop will help greatly to self balance the wheels! You will never be able to do this in a static machine! The semi liquid state of the goop will not allow this to happen in a static state wit in motion, it will level itself out automatically, equalizing the "forces" if the wheel, tire and goop to make it all perfectly balanced while in motion!
I find the heavy side of my wheel with a dummy stem insatalled, then I find the heavy side of the tire so when mounting it I can put them opposite each other. I store my bike hanging so the heavy side will go down then I rotate it 180 degrees and hold it there with a strap so when the sealent dries, that lighter side gets heavier. This way I am continually balancing my tire between rides.
We do this technique with remote control plane props. Vibration caused damage
Please give the option of Spanish translation.
Your technical explanations are excellent.
Disc and caliper well centered, but with 29-inch wheel with spokes and bushing badly centered and badly tensioned, always the disc will rosá to the tablets (oscillation).
I have a double-suspension bike (DB RECOIL 29ER) with 29-inch wheels, on the front with 9mm quick release and 10mm on the rear.
Does the types of closure influence NO BOOST AND BOOST?
I am using text translator.
I hope you understand me thank you 👋👋👋
I balance my car wheels when there is a wobble at the steering wheel at speeds around 100km/h. Balancing the car wheels helps me have a smoother drive so I can focus and enjoy my bike ride.
Would the sealant balance the tires? I know they have ceramic balance beads they put in truck tires that automatically balance the tire.
On my tubular carbon deep section wheels I use a valve extender without the stem and remove it for riding, this is not perfect but simple to do without adding more weight, the downside for me is that you just don't want to forget it when you're in need on the side of the road...the only time it happens to me I was save by my old spare tubular who fortunately have a standard Vittoria valve extender.
If you're not fortunate enough to live by a fishing store, there are other products/substances readily availlable that sell by the gram. Strickly for balancing purpose.
When going through chunk and stuff and all my suspension travel I notice no difference. In the air though I find it painful I have counterweighted wheels.
Would the join of the rim be the problem ? becouse its welded and not a pinned joined rim ? (welded join rims is stronger)
Made my tomorrow day! ❤👌😎
Never thought of it before but it gods that producers of the wheel did do it from the beginning.
I have this same problem, except that my disc rotor and cassete wobble too, and the wheel never fits the exact same way it did before so I have to realign stuff. Warped axle???
since I balance my wheels on my road bike all issue when descending fast I gone I'm more confident now to descent. I think its worth it.
Thanks
I'm watching from Costa Rica, I've ride my bicycle since my teens 90s'' until now 36 years old... I'm not really too much into mechanic until now... damn...