Fire Alarm Installation UK - Scout Hut Episode 9
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- Fire Alarm Installation UK - Scout Hut Episode 9
Join me as I replace a fire alarm system in this scout hut!
👀 This is the final part in the Scout Hut series. You can watch the other videos here:
Watch Episode 1 Here: • Cleaning Up Someone El...
Watch Episode 2 Here: • Consumer Unit Installa...
Watch Episode 3 Here: • Fault Finding Lighting...
Watch Episode 4 Here: • Installing LED Securit...
Watch Episode 5 Here: • Nightmare Floor Socket...
Watch Episode 6 Here: • Cable Tray Installatio...
Watch Episode 7 Here: • Fire Alarm System Faul...
Watch Episode 8 Here: • Testing A New Consumer...
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Light sensors coming on prematurely is due to Microwave can detect through walls.
Scouts will be having a lot of jumble sales to pay for all that time!
This Scout hut is solely responsible for Jordan being able to buy his new Model 3 😂😂
Did he ever say he was buying one? Could be lease hire.
Supersparks no doubt some 0% BIK goodness
I cannot believe that someone who "Installed" this fire alarm in the sound mind and concious left it in that state! Just imagine if a fire did happen and all the kids could of died!!!! Beyond gross neglience!!!! The "installer" should be reported and all of their work audited!!!! I think all fire alarm installers no matter which country your from should have a regulatory body like Gas Safe Register where they must register and be constantly monitored and aduited!
I agree but i also think there should be an Electrical Register (like Gas Safe). NOT ran by the NIC or the likes.
i'm from the u.s. but work in the industry. if i signed off and certified that system, it's my ass on the line. not sure how it is in the u.k., probably more strict. obviously they could go after my employer, but i'm personally responsible as well. also, it's a felony what that "installer" did
@@feelingtardy correct me if im wrong but in the US after a normal house rewire you get an Inspector to look at the jobs right? how often is that? in Uk we almost never get them if its one house , only if its a big job 3+ houses they come and they only look at each house/flat 5 mins. the amount of illegal work in uk is stupid and the worse thing is that if the installation has been made for a couple years they dont really procecute them
There must have been a fire alarm certificate issued for the building to be put into use?
But really, if that building required a fire alarm, they should not have been using it , so had something happened the scouts would have been in hot water as well as the original installer.
When you’re trying to identify cables you should try using a tone generator. I use the Tempo PTS 200 and it comes in really handy for tracing circuits and sorting out big bunches of cables if they’re not labelled.
Definitely, the things are a godsend
i got one too very handy
i need to get one of these. people need to label wires !
Just a heads up you should be using porcelain connector blocks for fire alarm systems not plastic 👍
Nice job ..don't forget the log books for the fire alarm and emergency lights for the client to fill in when he carry out the testing .👍
Classic, the wholesaler supplied some series 65 detectors, together with alarmsense detectors. I find this issue so regularly when tech supporting fire engineers, who are servicing systems. Electricians often don’t have smoke to fully test system when installing & don’t realise the system they have installed does not work. Fire alarms should be supplied & I installed by fully trained individuals.
The MCP next to the panel looks like it was fitted so that you keep it in the same zone as the rest of the devices in the zone. Cable from zone 1, down to MCP back to the outgoing cable (jointed) of zone 1..... Those Apollo bases that were initially installed will work with that CTec panel......For reference those panels have a 1 man walk test function... Saves running around silencing
The existing apollo detectors wouldnt have worked as they were standard conventional, the new Ctec panel was the 2 wire alarmsense which has conventional sounder outputs, but the zones are only compatible with alarmsense detectors.
Hi Jordan, I really enjoy your video's. I like the way you leave your mistakes unedited, no one is perfect, mistakes come easy when your tired. Your professional standards are high. Keep your videos coming look forward to them. The only criticism is the sound is too soft and muffled sometimes because you are not facing the mike, us old cretins can't hear the full sound spectrum. Good work thanks.
Thanks a lot
Brilliant series, you deserve a holiday after that epic amount of fault finding and work - hope the scouts appreciate how much safer everything is now!
You could have fitted sounder bases on the zones if you used an alarm sense panel and done away with the sounder circuit
This is an alarmsense panel
Do the integrated sounder bases on the smoke detectors require 4 core cable or do they just work on the 2 core cable straight from the zone wiring panel?
Just a tip for fire alarms, make sure you tape the fp that is coming into the panel. Just some reg that is constantly drilled into us fire alarm boys heads. Good work, first sparky I’ve seen that hasn’t actually done a shit job that someone will have to go back to correct
Thanks 😊
Amazing vid .I could only watch a few mins .How do you know the panal is knackered if was never even wired in?How do you know any of it bar the call pints were kncked too> I would hate u doing work for me, Sorry but you are just a rip off company,Unless the client as asked for all new then why are you putting it in without testing to see what is broken?
The panel is about 10+ years old. It also had 1 sounder circuit when it should have 2 sounder circuits
Shouldve left the sounders and just fitted a new one on its own circuit above the board
Beat me to it
I wouldn't have fitted alarm sense but just added the additional sounder above the panel
I just added the sounder beacon base in the disabled WC instead of adding a separate sounder circuit in the end.
@@artisanelectrics can use hear that sounder from the kitchen or from the toilet ???? I don't think so. That's why he and I said in my other review to put a sounder by the panel. YOU MUST HAVE 2 SOUNDER CIRCUITS.
A plastic fire alarm installed by an electrician-
Mains in PVC, no zone chart, back boxes absent on the detection, batteries appear undated.
There is a current reading taken my applying power to the controls, the the battery is then connected in series with probes on multi meter / clamp meter thing
This is reading will is the current taken to charge the just of CEF's shelf batteries, you need to be measuring the quiescent current & current in alarm
There is a 4mm earth stud in the control panel, it's designed for a ring crimped onto the CPC, personally I'd remove it & splash out £1.50 on brass earth block
With the toilets, I have found through personal experience that motion activated light switches are inconvenient, as when you are seated and about your business, you tend to be out of the range of detection and or moving very little. A sound activated switch would be much better as you can clap your hands to switch the lights back on. Should you be plunged into darkness whilst your trousers are around your ankles, and you have a potentially messy job to take care of in the dark.
Hi guys my name is kais and I was wondering is there any electricians looking for an apprentice. I’m currently finishing off my level 2 C&G .
Sorry guys my location is in Harrow
I hope you renewed the mains cable in fp 200 whilst you had the fire alarm panel out.
Not a chance it wasn't possible i'm afraid
I laugh at using fire proof cable. Why? Cause the cable to the switch board won't be fire proof so negates the effectiveness of it.
True
Carl Kokay well on commercial sites we always run a fire tuff (fp 200) from the section board to a fire alarm isolation switch then to the fire alarm panel normally below in fp as well. Then the cable is fire rated from basically point of entry to building to the panel.
@@cjkokay true its a waste of requirements, paper and time if you ask me , because your ring main/lighting circut cable isn't fp, its like that the glass on MCPs have to be saftey glass as pepole have cut themselves on the glass, i've had training on how to operate a call point what takes non saftey glass, i've even got a mcp what takes real glass and you can still get the glass for it and the hammer, but chances are of you breaking the glass with your elbow is quite high as pepole nick the hammers.
The job that’s just keeps giving 😂 everyday is a school day Jordan as a spark love it 😊
Totally!
What certification will you issue on completion of these works? I would be check to see if your insurance covers you to carry out fire alarm system works as it’s not something you would think of but also very often a higher level of cover.
Yes I issued a Fire Alarm Certificate
I've never seen the construction of a fire alarm system so this was really interesting. but I did just want to get some nice fine filler on the gap under the panel as the caulk didn't seem to leave a nice finish!
... and judging by the state of the other bodge jobs that you uncovered previously, I hope you checked that those FP cables weren't live!!! I'd imagine one labelled 'call point' may have actually been terminated into an FCU somewhere else in the building!!!!!
Bit late to the party but a tip with conventional/two wire fire systems, make sure you note in the panel or on the zone chart where the end of lines are, trust me at 3AM it is greatly appreciated! Thankfully i traded my cutters for a calculator so not an issue for me anymore :) I think you picked up most of the problems i spotted on the 1st video, I believe you are also correct that it should be FP back to the distribution board, i did find in the past that BAFE inspectors tended to have slightly different interpretations of the exact point at which the supply feed needs to be FP, but I have been out of the industry for quite a while so they have probably further clarified the requirements now
Thanks!
Sound levels were checked throughout i assume? :)
I'd bet, its part of the tests.
When you took the checkpoint panel off you should have realised it was a bi-wire and that you needed a bi-wire with alarmsense detection ya sausage
So many fire alarm rookie mistakes. Scary....
I have watched all the videos on this job, and it looks like it's had some kind of refurb done on it maybe a grant, and if that was the case I wouldn't be surprised if the electrical work was done by the builder as well, it just has all the signs of jobs I have come across where a builder has had a go and been out of their depth.
Because none of the stuff in that place is rocket science its everyday stuff to an electrician.
What qualification do you need as an electrician to install fire alarms?
nice video, however with closed doors, personally i would have added extra wires and used the zones to split the "area" to save time in activation... or better still fitted an addressable... i realise multiple ways to do things... just the way i would have done it....... open comment... is there enough DB for that area... am sure there is far to few detection devices in that hut too.
Thanks for your input
I tend to go addressable too. If there's only a couple of zones and the wiring integrity is good it's just a case of linking the ends. You can often use the sounder circuits as your cross path as the sounder circuits will tend to follow the zone circuits.
i hope you haven't been on the black market and paying an illegal hairdresser doesn't look like 3 months of growth , p.s. i hope you have doe a fire alarm course and have all the certs (;-)
Haha yeah my wife is an illegal hairdresser, she did the old bowler cut on me!
They Way you did the ISO-test, don’t tell you If you have a leak to Earth.😬 But otherwise a Nice job.💪🏻🇩🇰
Do you mean on the fire cable? - 17:45 he did an IR test with one lead on brown and blue together, and the other lead on earth
The surface box in the toilet you have put in does not meet regs, it needs fo be in a metal enclosure and also ceramic connector blocks need to be used on any joints thats have been done
Interesting thanks
Why would that be the case when the rest of the fire accessories are plastic with plastic terminals?
I was going to mention that... I have a nightmare getting ceramic blocks.
Jesus, what a cowboy install that was before you got there.....
Yep 🤦♂️
🫣🤠🤠
Where comes the assumption that deaf people will use disabled toilets come from? It makes no sense to me at all. There's nothing that prevents you from using the normal toilets when you cannot hear...
Also, shouldn't the wires go to in and out terminals of the detectors instead of being lied at the in terminals? As it is, the system has no way of monitoring that all detectors are still there. When going through them, the line is broken automatically when one is removed. This would also make wiring in the eol resistor so much easier as it wouldn't share the terminal with a wire of vastly different size.
Where comes the assumption that deaf people can't have other disabilities which require the use of a disabled toilet come from? Jeez
I am a 13 year old kid that loves these types of thing i cant tell you how happy i am to have met your channel it is so fasinating
Question, is it possible to do damage to the panel by either using a capacitor in place of a resistor or vice versa, or by shorting out L1 and L2 completely etc.
I don't think so, it just messes up the signalling. A bigger question would be whether the panel would survive one of those zones getting connected to 240V! A well designed panel should have some protection, as nearby lightning strikes will induce large transients in the zone wiring, but probably not enough to survive direct connection to the mains.
Interesting video, atleast it's all working know.! You would of thought the owner would have asked for the system to be monitored through to an alarm receiving centre as it's a building? I had a fire alarm fault years ago in a nightclub, there was basically water pouring through the ceiling into a smoke head. The ceiling collapsed hours later from the weight of the water etc. I always get the good jobs!!!
Brilliant series Jordan. Really enjoyed this. Can't wait for the next series.
Glad you enjoyed it!
What was the need to replace the exsisting panel? Was it not more expensive to change to a new panel?
much better to replace the panel with a decent quality one with compatible accessories imo.
@@jonathanstephens7804 It wasn't about quality, the issue is trust. Seeing what second-hand rubbish was installed in other areas, the existing panel and sensors were just not trustworthy.
That existing panel was a cb200, at least 20 years old now, the standard recommends a 10 year lifespan for fire panels.
Nice job on that floor outlet, for a floor outlet you would think that it would have been designed to sit in the floor more than just on it. makes me wonder if that was just a hinged flap outlet and not actually a floor outlet. Either way it looks nice and it looks flush with the floor.
Apollo do a great app helps you with the regs for future fire alarm jobs mate
I bet you did not expect it to unravel as bad as that.
I also think that the sounder types are different ( they must be the same sound type and the toilet should have been a vad to en54-23 so that may be an issue
Its horrible when you have to try and make the best of it
I felt your pain.
Scott Terrell thats most likely what the alarm circuit was doing in the wc that got a joint box on.
fun fact did you now that in the us by code you are not aloud to have a low voltege fa or fire alarm wires next to high voltige wire they have to be at a min of 5 feet away due to if one of the wires is on fire it does not damige the wire next to it . and did you now that fa or fire alarm wire is fire prof and that is why fa wire is red .and i am a fire alarm expert that is why i now this. KEEP THE GOOD WORK!!!!!
Excellent series of 9 videos covering a massive job. Well done ......enjoyed ever single one....nice workmanship!!😀
Just so you know you need to wire the l1 out terminal also. If you connect the heads incorrectly each head on the next link of wire loses power. Therefore if 1 head is removed all the rest no longer work
He demonstrated in the video that when he removed the heads in the hall, the end call point still functioned. Therefore he correctly tested the polarity and this point has been addressed.
I would definitely surface mount for a swift and clean installation. Seal all gaps with fire rated sealant. Jobs a goodun 👍
Really nice video I think the first panel was fitted by a cow boy I am north east uk based and looking at getting into the industry with fire alarms
Good call doing IR on the cables too. Can ya tell I'm commenting as I watch?! ;)
Special place in hell for people who put a sounder above the panel. Sorry. 😂 but how do you hear the panel key beeps when theres a sounder above the panel?
Lol
Yes although when I first started reading I was thinking you were going to talk about the installer who did the previous work?
You might have been better off putting the panel into test mode then it would have just done two bleeps when your were testing, I have done that in the past when I have tested my panel which I think is this same model as the one you tested.
I just couldn’t figure out how to do it
Just noticed is there a outside sounder strobe fitted its needed to alart fire brigade to the building and to were the fire panel is located ,good job
No there isn't
love watching the videos, very precise clear detail on how things should be done and having just completed my level 3 electrical installation course, by watching all you guys doing installations gives me the appetite to pursue a career in domestic installations although i'm in my 50's age doesn't bother me.
Fair play for doing this video, I would have got too frustrated with the job to bother filming but it’s great to see how you approach each hurdle
26:07 I think the zones (detectors, call points, sounder bases) use capacitors and the sounders use resistors
So I think the detector should have a capacitor not a resistor
Why are fire alarms so interesting. All they do is flash and sound
Will we ever see the end of this hell hut?? 🙄🙄🙄🙄🤣🤣🤣
It's against the regs the fire system must be wired in fire rated cable completely from the board and on a circuit of it's own non rcd
Scott Terrell non RCD preferred not a requirement.
There is a reg for the mains cable having to be fire rated cable, also needs to come from main incoming board not a sub board or local board
From Db to double pole fused spur and from fuse spur into panel must be FP. Also the MUST be a minimum of 2 sounder ccts! Other than that, lovely job and would be a nice service
@@stefanfreeman8905 double pole no longer a requirement
@PunjabrangDotCom as soon as you useca control panel that feeds the sounders and separate smokes, not a domestic class smoke detector it needs to be fire rated cabling throughout
Another top video I did not think you could put beacons on the detector circuit? Those cables coming out of the ceiling in the kitchen was probably for a beacon or sounder beacon. What was the fault on zone 1?
Is there no devices in the roof space?
No, not needed. Its just a loft.
Artisan Electrics , no worries dude thought I’d ask as when I’ve installed full systems myself previously (F/A designed by others) roof voids above I think 600mm have always needed them if there’s a detector below ceiling
@@artisanelectrics not technically your judgement call. Careful with that! Only a fire risk assessment can make that call, and if you decide it doesn't need them then it's on your neck if something goes wrong. This is why so many of my electrician friends are totally backing out of doing fire alarms. Too much at stake.
its hard to imagine anyone doing work like that, but there are several scenarios, i cant imagine a proper electrician doing that no matter how rough they are, and i am sure if it was a registered installer an organisation like the scouts would have been in touch with whoever they were or are registered with. Really there should have been detectors in the loft as well, and i guess if the place needed a working fire alarm they shouldn't have been using the building.
I hope C-Tec pay you a fortune for doing their job which they are incapable of doing, teaching people how to install/maintain these contraptions? C-Tec customer service is appalling
I don't know why but I've found this series fascinating .
No zone chart adjacent panel from what I can see
Coming from a fire alarm enginner neat job Jordan? Very thorough continuity and IR testing also . I wish most of the panels I came to looked like that inside . How have you gone about issuing a modification certificate ?
Thank you!
I just issued a modification certificate as normal
great video but did you tape up the ends?
its not a earth on a fire alarm panel its a screen
Thanks
Did you know on the control panel? If two yellow lights are flashing? That means there are faults?
Well Jordan, love your videos. I left sparking in 1996 and in the fire alarm game since. Recently started with a wireless fire alarm company using ems kit. You should check out their new smartcell kit ,30 devices max. 👍Best wished from Ireland.☘
Fire alarm is like a piece of cake my kit 15 and 16, they doing better than your job
Power up panel with eols in place to make sure you haven't got a dodgy panel
Fire alarm techs shouldn't do electrics and electrician's shouldn't do fire alarms. It's evident you hadn't a notion what you were doing and it's a life safety system at the end of the day.
Another good one Jordan.
with the ctec cfp if you take the cover off you can enter walk test where it automatically silences itsself after it has cleared instead of manually resetting it
Good vid, informative. Thanks for the details, always appreciated.
Thanks for watching!
Great Video as always Jordan...your content is always interesting to watch.
Learnt something here to about the end of line capacitors and resistors...never thought about why they had to be different. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
How did they manage to get insurance with out a working firealarm
🤷♂️
On the new alarms the some and heat detectors are the sounders to
Can’t stand this smug guy am a spark could not work with this dude he is up his own bottom
Hi can you make a video for floor plan please
I thought I was the only person that went into a complete state of panic with that specific noise. I absolutely despise it and no matter how many times i hear it it has the exact same effect every time
😬
Why only fit strobes in the loo? We have them in every room. What if your deaf and alone in the kitchen or hall?
I bet you were glad to see the back of that job. Nightmare job for you, great job for students or learners as that was such a variety of work there.
Would you not of disconnected the sounder circuits when testing the heads and mcp? Saves you having to have your ears blown off you. The visual indication on the panel will also verify the sounder has been activated so no need for the sore ears.
Good tip
@@artisanelectrics it's what we do whenever we are servicing fire systems. Saves the ears 😂
Does the fire alarm dial out to the Fire Brigade?
With some panels you can get a dialler on it.
what also isn't helpful is when you move into a house and your fuse board labels are hit and miss with some written on and some blank but in use. as that was the case , so i had to stand on a bench flipping the fuses to see what was what then labelled it from their, its a old fuse box as its just got one RCD. Trust me RCDS are great as i had a incident with a plug converter what converted two pin into 3 what was safer then the death adapters you get from china, so i plugged in a two pin walkie talkie charger," BANG" my thumb was shaking afterwards but i was black on my thumb for days but the rcd and i think the mcb kicked in this was ages ago at my dads old house. luckily it did not electrocute me but the supplier where i got the walkie talkies from issued me a refund which was good.
put into walk test next time Haha
It’s actually unbelievable on what you can get away with over there, no back boxes on detectors, cables no glanced into back, a beacon in disabled toilet passes as 2nd sounder cct, so main sounder cct fails no sounders in building but its ok we have a beacon in a disabled toilet that no one apart from user in toilet can see, if I did that over here and something happed I would be facing jail time without any leg to stand on, we even have to fit an external sounder above door indicating safe entry point for Fire service, shout the emergency light above door be an exit sign
Where are you then?
@@robertwilliams7222 Ireland as a guess
Barry Britcher correct Ireland, for last 20yrs served my time in Northampton, Milton Keynes .
Can you do more fire alarm videos
The easiest way to do a battery load test: grab a multi-meter, connect + of multi-meter to + of battery, then connect - of multi-meter and connect to - of battery. Make sure the multi-meter is set on DC VOLTAGE, It may not work on AC Voltage. Also, Put zone labels next to each device, It'll make it easier to point out which device goes to what zone in future maintenance.
Hi, I have a question. Is the Apollo 65 smoke detector, which has a red LED, able to take pictures or videos at the installation site? I would be grateful if you answer
great vid. are you getting the system commissioned or doing it yourself?
Sparks havnt got a clue when it comes to commissioning fire alarms haha ! They think they do !! I have commissioned loads over the years and there is always a snag on every single one
I did it myself with some expert help.
@@artisanelectrics great stuff. The whole commissioning thing used to confuse me. For years the company I worked for (Electrical) wired and installed and then got a fire alarm company in to commission. Being with NIC they have their own commissioning courses and Bafe accreditation but its a hefty price! Where does the law sit with this?
Loads wrong on this, Not a single ceramic block used, wrong mains isolater, no doc box for paperwork + zone chart😲
I love the fire alarms end i am jari
Good work sir...painful as it was :-D There's better, flusher, floor boxes than those suitable for the socket, but hey ho, money is tight i suppose.When i first started watching you messing with the alarm panel, ithought..."end of line capacitors?...theyr'e normally resistors" lol..ah well got the job done.
Forgive my ignorance but why is there a need for resistors and capacitors in the 'end of line' kit ?
Great vid... dib dib dib
So the system knows if a cable becomes cut
@@edcooper2396 thx
the old system wood of kill them beckus it dosent work
All the gear but no funking idea!!!!!
hey can i buy the old panel off you if you are going to toss it into waste
Haha sorry it got binned a long time ago now.
Nice bro,,,,!
What did you connect with first manual call points ...it looks u terminates them in wago connectors ...then how would first manual call point work then.??..
Please do one for south Dunedin