On the issue of invasives, some locations are more sensitive than others. In Hawaii, invasive species are running over the native ecosystem and destroying watersheds and poisoning ungulates.
@StefanSobkowiak yeah it's just tough, between high winds high soil ph, low moisture around 10 to 15 inches a year. Than you add in the cold where you can get down to 60 below zero in some of the worst years it just makes it tough that's also why I have livestock as well.
I'm fortunate to have a lot of those trees and shrubs as native to my property. I have added some redbud to my orchards for both reasons. My native honey locusts have the most wicked thorns you have ever seen. 2 inches or longer and tough. Had a few go through the sole of my boots. My grass and weeds grow fast and I let them go a bit long. Makes for good green manure and food for pollinators. Will have to check out that next video as I'm a couple years into grape vines and kiwis. They really took off this year. Now time to propagate some more. As usual sir, great info, thanks so much.
@@robertdouglas8895 have 12 ply tires on mine, no worries. Thankfully I don't have many, but may grow out a few to transplant out on land boundaries. Mix them in on some windbreak plantings.
I am so glad you brought Red Bud ( Cercis canadensis ) to the conversation. For years, I've seen my trees produce copious vegetation, which I use for compost and mulch, so I always believed their were nitrogen-fixing like other legumes. Many 'experts' say they don't fix nitrogen, but I do not see how they could produce such amazing vegetal growth and improve soil otherwise.
Ailanthus altissima, Paulownia tomentosa and many others don't fix nitrogen and grow even more foliage. So a nitrogen-fixing symbiont is not a necessity for good growth.
@@lorrainegatanianhits8331 Paulownia do fix nitrogen. Ailanthus is a weird one. It has been noted that it has the capacity to 'enable' neighbouring leguminous trees ( such as Black Locust ) to fix even more nitrogen and benefit from this. I'm not really sure how this works, but the data is still being crunched on this one. Ailanthus were originally native to North America, but died out after having become established in Eurasia at a later date. Now that it has been reintroduced to North America, it is an exceptionally rank grower and is mostly known as an invasive weed tree. It grows more vigorously here than in Eurasia.
If it makes lots of biomass, it can increase your souls fertility. Hardly matters if it fixes nitrogen. I love mulberry because they can be cut back over and over and still come back, they have no thorns and their wood is almost as durable as black locust.
I'm pretty excited. I'd forgotten about a batch of thornless honey locust seeds I'd scrounged from under a tree 2 years ago. Put them in a damp paper towel and so far 6 have sprouted! High hopes now to end up with 20, 30 perhaps 40 baby trees. And as my mentor Stefan has taught me, plant them out in the Fall!
Love your talks on the permaculture orchard. Close to our zone. We have sandy soil, a small property that receives daily am mist, and alders naturally here. So good the dark soil. Have followed some of your knowledge, Thank you Mr. Stefan Sobkowiak. Wonderful blessings parallel sowing, never comes back void.
Black Locust can quicly get out of hand here (8 feet in a few months!), so I just keep them pollarded and always have a lot of mulch, same with alders, which are continually planted by the surrounding forest. The locust thorns are not as much as a problem on the soft new growth. The goumis also grow strongly and even provide income from the great fruit. Always good to research general nitrogen fixing shrubs and trees, plant some and see what grows for you. Stefan got me started with this idea of planning space for them when installing my current permaculture orchard, but I was also able to stick other N fixing plants around the established trees with good effect. Many and continual Thanks, Stefan!
All plants help in fixing nitrogen. Most nitrogen fixation is done by soil-dwelling bacteria that don't have any specific symbiosis with any plant. In other words, nitrogen fixing trees and shrubs are not a necessity.
From a simple Google search for nitrogen fixing trees and shrubs: Some nitrogen-fixing trees and shrubs native to North America include: Black locust A tree that can grow up to 170 ft tall and is native to North America. It's a great soil improver and can grow in places where others can't. However, it can be thorny. Red alder A tree that's common in the Pacific Northwest. Ceanothus A shrub that's common in the Pacific Northwest, including deerbrush and snowbrush. Lupine A fast-growing perennial shrub with silvery leaves. There are several types of lupine, including silver, tree, miniature, wild, and riverbank. Siberian peashrub A deciduous shrub that can grow up to 10 ft tall and 10 ft wide. It's native to Central Asia and can fit well in orchards. Bayberry A semi-evergreen shrub that can grow up to 5-6 ft tall. It's related to wax myrtle and can create colonies via suckering. Other nitrogen-fixing plants include: Speckled alder Leadplant Groundnut Canada milk vetch New Jersey tea Purple prairie clover Showy tick trefoil Round-headed bush clover Wild senna
So inspired by all your thoughtful videos. Thanks for all the love and enthusiasm you put into them. Hoping to build up to start my own orchard here in Pennsylvania! Sending good vibes :)
Alders ring my property, they are weedy here. I also find the outer branches fall over and rot quickly. They are supposed to be one of the best wood chips for growing mushrooms. Have you heard of Bayberry? It is a native in Acadian regions. Waist high shrub, produces a berry that is highly prized as winter bird feed, and can be boiled to produce wax for candles.
We have abundant red alder. Dig the soil under a mature alder. So rich! Easy to grow. Seems to tolerate proper hedge laying (so far), and might coppice nicely. All that together, makes me think they're way more valuable than people expect. I'm getting ready to experiment with it as a sacrificial pioneer canopy over young fruit trees. I can cut them back over time to expose the growing fruit trees and shrubs, ultimately sacrificing them completely, into mulch, as a succession strategy. As long as the blackberries can be kept in check ...
Great points I was wondering why a new cherry tree was growing so fast. I realized there's a shagbark hickory nearby. Found it too is a nitrogen fixer. Will have to cut it every yr but a hickory bush might not be a bad thing. 😂
I bought a new property in Vermont and all of the access roads through the wooded areas were/are overgrown with Black Birch saplings so thick they were impassable while the wooded areas are easy walking older Hemlock, White Pine and Oak woods. It made me think they are obviously some pioneer type tree, but I was unsure since the soil in these woodland access roads would easily support any tree growth. While researching Alders for my area, I discovered they are in the birch family under a different genus. That reminded me of the Black Birch and I just discovered that they are suspected nitrogen fixers. It’s quite enjoyable to see all these dots connecting.
I love thornless honey locusts as shade trees around the house. They don't bother anyone & the leaflets blow away in the fall so you don't have to clean up mess. We've also got a redbud tree right off our patio that's humming with bees every spring. You can also make a delicate jam from the red buds in the spring.
I have red clay which is high in minerals but lacks any nitrogen. Sweet gum and autumn olive can take over my landscape because of their ability to fix nitrogen. I am often battlin the sweet gums taking over
Huge fan of your videos. Applying it on my own property. But please consider cutting back on the Stock video clips. I really liked your earlier style without all the interrutions. Now I kinda feel Im getting that tik Tok Vibe instead of the calming flow it used to have. Greetings from Denmark
Thank you for this great video! The treasure for me inside this video is to find out which are the Native species where I live, because they will be much easier for growing and get the results the soil needs; customized list for my place🤩🙏✨
I have a Sea buckthorn / Sea berry that is self fertilizing, it does have thorns however! It does not die back in western Norway, but I basically live right by the coastline north of Bergen. I planted one between two sweet cherries this year :) I've also made tons of air grafts to clone my trees! I've got a lot of peaches and apricot trees grown from seed that I hope will turn out well too :)
I need some help, Stefan. I have a ton of black locust trees that grow everywhere in my orchard. The more I cut them from the ground, the more they show up next year. How would you recommend dealing with them? I've noticed the thorns are not that large when they're young, I'm fine with that, my soil is poor, so now, that I've learned they improve soil I wouldn't want them out for good. I was thinking of using glyphosate first, but I don't like fighting nature. How should I integrate them in a permaculture approach? Kindly thank you for reading!
Depends what you want long term. They are preparing the way (you said poor soil) for other tree species to come in. Definitely not the glyphosate route. You can determine where you want to access and just keep them out of those access routes.
Loving your educational videos! Learning lots. Off topic, but I'm curious what the wire we see among the trees is? For grapes, or training branches? Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge!
Wire overhead for overhead sprays of whey and for frost protection, low wires hold old drip irrigation system. Random wires short are used for branch training.
Merci pour cette vidéo! La question qui me vient quand j'entends parler des fixateurs d'azote, c'est la portée de leur action. A quelle distance ils agissent. Cela aiderait à planifier leur disposition dans le verger. Merci d'avance pour votre réponse.
Black alder is one of my favorites (cause it grows naturally here, and really quick too), but i'm pretty sure chestnut and sycamore would be awesome as well
Black locust, yellow locust, yellow locust, and American Redbud are all good nitrogen-fixers, and the redbud has beautiful flowers which make great jelly in the, Spring, when few other fruits are yet avalable.
We have native redbud on our property & it is popping up everywhere. I never heard of making jelly with the flowers. They are excellent raw. Native American candy❤
Seaberries remind me of citrus fruit on a small scale. They are rich in vitamin c & e. Citrus like fruit that can be grown outdoors in Canada (max zone 3 - perhaps 2). But can be tricky to pick especially if the variety is thorny.
What about a Mimosa? I have a volunteer in my garden and I've left it because I love the tree, but also wondered since it is a legume. It is only about 1 foot tall now, but I know they are prolific growers.
Thank you! I have a Big black locust, and it seems as though the cold hardy kiwi planted at its base, doesn't like it... It appears to not want to touch it... Any ideas, similar experience?
Yep notheast wyoming is definitely a tough area to grown things with our high ph lay lol im getting ready to try planting buffalo berry. Our soil hear in wyoming is in general poor soil.
Hello, we live in Vermont, US and 5 years ago planted 3 types of apple trees, honey delicious, granny smith and Macintosh red. We have only gotten 2-3 apples per tree since a couple of years ago. We were considering fertilizing next spring plus some serious pruning. Any suggestions you can provide to increase production are very much appreciated. Regular viewer of your vlog, thanks for all the tips!
Almost all your suggestions are different types of (Elaeagnaceae). If you like these plant family so much, maybe a video about the similarities and differences of all of them would be good
I've got a few questions. Very interesting. How big an area versus hight will the tree/ bush fix nitrogen? I'm assuming it's the roots doing the work. Sunlight is an important consideration when planting, how do you balance the trees light needs with my tomatoes light needs? My salad stuff may welcome the summer shade, but these are questions I need to consider.
Am growing morels and Giant puffballs, would like to add giant garden mushrooms (stropharia) and shiitakes on logs. Really depends on your soil, if you are not using fungicides the best suited ones to your soil will begin to appear but some can be inoculated.
Ii'm building some of your birdhouse designs. Iv'e seen them with the front opening instead of the sides. Doe it matter which way? I notice you plans open to the side for maintenance. (sorry this is probably posted on the birdhouse video).
Thanks for pointing it out. It's a goumi. Not the same. Goumi is a fruit bearing nitrogen fixing shrub. Goji is a fruit bearing (smaller fruit) shrub but does not fix nitrogen. We have both but want a LOT more goumi, the fruit is wonderful and the birds love it.
I store my urine in a large gallon for 3 months. Boil it to 90 degree centigrade and allow to cool. I dilute 1 litre urine with 5 litres water and spray on the base and root of my plant or trees that is free Nitrogen that is organic. 50 litres of urine can fertilize a plot of 200 metres by 200 metres. You can do that once every 2 month. It is free Nitrogen. There is also small amount of potassium and phosphorus in it. Boiling to 90 degree centigrade will kill all pathogens in the urine. Ensure you don't take medicine or drug 48 hours before urinating. We don't want and drugs or medicine to interfer with our organic fertilizer. You can add other potassium and phosphorus to boost your yield.
Usually the nitrogen fixing trees are soil improvers, preparing the way for forest trees. Once the forest is established there are far fewer N fixing trees needed.
@@StefanSobkowiak another question. Would you know how the nitrogen behaves under the ground? As in, would it flow downhill below the tree or is it in a stable form only usable to the plants directly around it. I saw in another video. A gentleman had a large seabuckthron in a pasture. He chopped it down and everything downhill from the tree kept growing that summer. Grass would grow 1 or 2 feet a week.
From what understand. Nitrogen fix plants store the nitrogen in their rots and take it back up to produce flowers and fruit. So there is no gain unless you stop the plant from flowering and fruiting. Im I wrong about this?
Nitrogen-fixing plants, such as legumes (e.g., beans, peas, clovers), have a symbiotic relationship with bacteria (Rhizobium) that live in nodules on their roots. These bacteria convert atmospheric nitrogen into ammonia, which the plant can use to synthesize amino acids and other nitrogen-containing compounds. When the plant dies, the nitrogen stored in its tissues becomes available for other plants as the plant decomposes. However, nitrogen-fixing plants can also benefit the soil and other plants in several ways before they die: Root nodules release excess nitrogen: As the bacteria in the root nodules convert atmospheric nitrogen into ammonia, some of this nitrogen is released into the soil, where it can be taken up by other plants. This process is called "nitrogen fixation." Plant tissues release nitrogen: As the plant grows, it sheds leaves, twigs, and other tissues that contain nitrogen. These tissues decompose and release nitrogen into the soil, making it available for other plants. Rhizodeposition: The roots of nitrogen-fixing plants release organic compounds (e.g., sugars, amino acids) into the soil through a process called rhizodeposition. These compounds support the growth of beneficial soil microorganisms, which can improve soil health and fertility. Soil structure improvement: The root systems of nitrogen-fixing plants help improve soil structure by creating channels and pores, which can enhance water infiltration, aeration, and nutrient cycling. By planting nitrogen-fixing trees and other plants, you can improve soil fertility and support the growth of other plants in your garden or ecosystem. While it's true that the full benefit of nitrogen fixation occurs when the plant dies, the other benefits mentioned above can be realized throughout the plant's life cycle.
Pruning the plant each year will initiate a release of N . Use the pruning for mulch to return nutrients to the soil and assist in storing soil moisture while maintaining soil temperature. 🇦🇺
You are basically right. This video is mostly asinine. Nitrogen is the biggest boon to humanity ever created and harnessed. People used to toil on the soil for a meager 10bu/acre of wheat lol. The internet has gone cuckoo.
@@amontodd6483true. Not just the internet tho, many academics have lost it. Also, I would say that anthropogenic deposition of N is the single greatest thing humans have done, not just for themselves, but also for the entire biosphere.
Honey locust, coffeetree, and redbud all do not develop root nodules. Legumes that dont form nodules are only about half as good of a nitrogen fixer as the ones that do ( e.g. black locust, persian silk mimosa, black alder)
I have watched so many of your videos and learned a ton from you. Thank you for all that you've taught me. However, I wish you would please reconsider encouraging hundreds of thousands of people all over the globe to plant invasive species. These plants may be great on your farm, but when the birds eat the berries and spread them into wilderness that no one is maintaining, these plants are an ecological disaster. Where I live for instance, the autumn olives have taken over acres of my property. I've never seen a hole in the leaf of an Autumn Olive here. The insects here simply can't eat them. These types of plants are the perfect invaders because deer and rabbits won't eat them, birds love to spread their berries for miles around, and they can shade and outcompete every native plant because of their nitrogen fixing abilities. Outcompeting the native plants means no host plants for native insects. Fewer native insects means fewer native amphibians. The effects of these invasive nitrogen fixers displacing native plants ripples throughout the ecosystem, driving native plants and animals extinct. There are so many native nitrogen fixers for every climate, please encourage your viewers to focus on planting nitrogen fixers that are native to their region. Or direct them towards male nitrogen fixers that don't produce seeds without a female companion. People may think they're doing a good thing by using less chemical fertilizers, when in fact they may be having devastating unintended consequences for wilderness areas near their farm.
It depends on where the tree is and what trees are surrounding it. We have thornless and most of the trees on the farm are thornless. There are no native honey locusts growing wild nearby. So they cross with thornless and will give over 90% thornless seedlings.
@@StefanSobkowiak No. I have seen what happens, I have seen the trees, it is a nightmare in about 50 years time. Your Honey Locust a thornless Hybrid, and the seeds will be the original tree, which has thorns.
@@StefanSobkowiak AI says it is not a hybrid, yet I think it is acting like one. "No, thornless honey locust trees are not a hybrid and will not produce seeds that have thorns, but some offspring may have thorns" Once the thorny offspring grows up and seeds, you will have thorny trees everywhere.
@@StefanSobkowiak The thornless trees were given to farmers in USA and Australia back in the 1950s to improve the land. The farmers just planted them and did nothing else, by the 1980s almost all the trees that spread down the valley had giant thorns, I seen one go through a girl's foot.
Julius Hensel wrote BREAD FROM STONES. It along with his life lessons and wisdom are still used today and show their value in depleted plants. He was at the forefront of opposition for Big Fuel that had influenced the industrial farmers through their nitrogen rich fertilizers. It is disgusting how our lands and waters as well as bodies and minds have been poisoned over time as we are born onto this modern failures of repetition.
The soil life and the tree roots act as transport. In the UK a friend on heavy clay soil planted two cherry tree saplings, one a meter or so from a mixed hedge, the other 5 or 6m away. The nearer one is now 5 times as tall. 'Competition' isn't so harsh as we might think...
@@timbushell8640 Most of those trees are Taller than the Fruit trees especially when the fruit trees are young. And in His orchard he won't be able to plant Large trees that will take up all that space and still maintain an orchard. And these trees will also compete for nutrients in the soil along with root space. Your answer is overly simplistic and not really addressing my issue.
@karensmith4336 Yeah well how do you think a Short fruit tree will do next to a 100' locust tree ? And how much space will you lose if you start planting these Huge trees in your orchard?
@Toronado2 That depends entirely on how big of an area you have and what shape it is as well as what planting zone you're in. Keep in mind, you are not required to have at least one of each of these trees. These are suggestions for what you might want to choose from. Stefan is not going to be standing behind you with a bull whip watching to see if you make a 'wrong' decision. You may pick and choose. You don't even have to pick any of these.
Terra preta -- adding biochar mixed with compost tea up to 25% of total soil volume, up to three meters deep -- augments nitrogen fixing, soil fertility, and water management. Give it a shot. Also, consider Miyawaki forest methods with these nitrogen-fixing trees and shrubs.
@@StefanSobkowiak That is an awesome question! There are plenty who do it to the normal depth of SOCs, eight inches or so, maybe a bit deeper in raised beds, and they get decent results. What was found in the Amazon, black earth "do Indio", went down much farther, going back 2500 years and still active and fertile. The first people to do it did it a fraction of an inch a season on average, for five hundred years. They'd do 'cultural burnings' and then stomp the charcoal down into the dirt with their feet, the way people stomp wine, is the archeologists' best guess. But then, in those days people were more patient, I suppose. The way I've seen it happen in person was by accident, when a city buried the charred trunks of a patch burned down by wildfire in the 1950's. Thirty years later, the whole two acre area could not be flooded no matter how much it rained, and the meadow above it never went brown in the hottest, driest summer. Productive and fertile, without any treatment at all. I don't expect many would bury a forest and wait thirty years. My hope is, if you have an earth mover, a trencher only needs a few inches wide by 9-10' deep every so often the width of a field: fill the trench with terra preta and nature will take care of mixing it into neighboring soils by diffusion over time. This is not much different from putting in subsoil water retention trenches (biochar is hydrophobic, so terra preta acts like drainage tiles), and kills two birds with one stone if you have seasonal drought or flood issues, with proper design. Of course, that's a huge volume of biochar to make with cone fires or steel drum airless burners. Do it enough years over time, shifting the trench over a few feet each time, or cross-hatching with cuts at 90 degrees to the original, and in a generation, who knows? One day, when I'm ambitious enough, I hope to try it as a project.
@@bartroberts1514 great observations and intuition. I was thinking of using a post hole digger instead of a trench, since I would need far less biochar to start.
@@StefanSobkowiak Post hole digger is a good way to go, too. Having worked my way through summers as a gravedigger, I am well familiar with how much diffusion can mix soil below ground. I'd also thought of the potential of horizontal drilling techniques, such as used to install underground cables and pipes. That, after all, is the goal of terra preta: an underground pipe of water permeable nutrient base that creates drainage, storage and filtration while hosting nitrate-fostering microbes. I have no idea if these speculations will work, really, other than the way the pre-Columbians did it thousands of years ago. But it seems worth investing, if it can replace synthetic fertilizer, in research.
Urine is approximately 11-1-2 NPK. Nitrogen is the easiest free thing to get! That much nitrogen can become problematic: you need some more P and K. I have started cooking homemade bone meal slurry with the Instant Pot and my 600 watt blender. Best tomatoes ever this year.
Thank you, Stefan. I planted eastern redbuds in my trio’s for the beautiful blossoms and I have lots of black locusts on the property. Question: Any recommendations on where to buy Somerset grape vines from? Thanks.
@shaagarey469 @stefansobkowiak moringa does not fix nitrogen. it's related to brassicas and papayas. has nothing to do with legumes, just looks slightly similar to some leguminous trees. it is used as a "dynamic accumulator" and tolerates poor soil, but that doesn't make it a nitrogen fixer
I've read that nitrogen-fixing plants do not release their nitrogen into the soil until their roots die back. In the case of these trees, that would mean them having to die before you get the benefit of their nitrogen. Am I missing something? I don't want to wait for decades to add nitrogen into the soil. Clover is a better nitrogen fixer on the timescales we want, since its roots die back partially every year, or every week if you mow it weekly.
A hard prune or pollard cut will encourage the tree/shrub to self prune roots, which will release nitrogen into the soil. Geoff Lawton suggests doing your chop and dropping (pruning) when the moisture in the environment is over evaporation, aka wet seasons or rains. Hope this helps!
I heard the same. I don't think the plant needs to die though, but it should be a plant that stands up well to repeated pollarding or coppicing, which supposedly kills off some of the roots and as those decay, it slowly leaches off nitrogen into the surrounding soil
Plants will share their resources while living. Most people are not aware of this, I'm not sure if it's 'new' discovery or if the information is kept quiet to help sales of fertilizer.
False indigo is also a nitrogen fixer. I opted for clover and false indigo because I have a smaller space. I also wondered about licorice, because it too is a legume.
Black Locus is toxic to another trees (except grapes) and can be in some amount also to human. Its true that its also great nitrogen fixer mainly in dry areas. However this should have been also mentioned :)
It is not toxic to all plants. Many planta are growing faster, if there is black locust close to it. We have more black locust trees in Hungary, than the rest of Europe together. The biggest problem, that it is invasive. 30% of all trees in Hungary are black locust.
You sort of do need the legumes to provide the material and matter without decreasing soil nitrogen levels then grow big rooted plants to take the nitrogen carbon from the material matter and put it into the soil
My understanding of nitrogen-fixing plants is that they don't give up their nitrogen to other plants until they die. How does planting these trees do any good for the soil if you have to wait decades for them to die?
Nitrogen-fixing plants, such as legumes (e.g., beans, peas, clovers), have a symbiotic relationship with bacteria (Rhizobium) that live in nodules on their roots. These bacteria convert atmospheric nitrogen into ammonia, which the plant can use to synthesize amino acids and other nitrogen-containing compounds. When the plant dies, the nitrogen stored in its tissues becomes available for other plants as the plant decomposes. However, nitrogen-fixing plants can also benefit the soil and other plants in several ways before they die: Root nodules release excess nitrogen: As the bacteria in the root nodules convert atmospheric nitrogen into ammonia, some of this nitrogen is released into the soil, where it can be taken up by other plants. This process is called "nitrogen fixation." Plant tissues release nitrogen: As the plant grows, it sheds leaves, twigs, and other tissues that contain nitrogen. These tissues decompose and release nitrogen into the soil, making it available for other plants. Rhizodeposition: The roots of nitrogen-fixing plants release organic compounds (e.g., sugars, amino acids) into the soil through a process called rhizodeposition. These compounds support the growth of beneficial soil microorganisms, which can improve soil health and fertility. Soil structure improvement: The root systems of nitrogen-fixing plants help improve soil structure by creating channels and pores, which can enhance water infiltration, aeration, and nutrient cycling. By planting nitrogen-fixing trees and other plants, you can improve soil fertility and support the growth of other plants in your garden or ecosystem. While it's true that the full benefit of nitrogen fixation occurs when the plant dies, the other benefits mentioned above can be realized throughout the plant's life cycle.
@@nocapitals9833 "Root nodules release excess nitrogen" - This part I hadn't heard of before, that they leak nitrogen into the soil while they're still alive.
annual and perennial plants drop leaves as they grow, not just when they die. leaves are incredibly rich in protein (and therefore nitrogen). have you heard of chop and drop?
@@djmoulton1558 the best way to feed the soil is from above. when you learn to plant trees, you learn to top dress with fertilizer and mulch, not mix it into the planting hole. this is how plants get most of their fertility in natural systems, and that's what we imitate. this is why plants grow most of their feeder roots in the top few inches of soil. starting with nutrients above the soil allows them the most chance to get absorbed by the roots, rather than washing out and polluting the oceans. nutrients belong on top of the soil. most of the nitrogen is going to be absorbed by the plant that associates with the nitrogen fixer, and that's a good thing. leaves are a top-tier fertilizer, and the main fertilizer used by nature.
I love this guy and have been watching his channel for years. But I have yet to see the actual abundance of fruit on his trees. Is there any videos of harvest or actual fruit?
My husband and I bought a derelict property in the 1990’s. Can’t tell you how many times he had to fix the tractor tires due to the thorned honey locus.❤
I hate Russian Olive Tree's, they spread everywhere, but my livestock loves them & they do come back, even if you cut them down to the ground. They will shred a horse in a heartbeat. Honey Locust is another one i despise. It spreads by roots & seed, i have the thorn variety. I didn't know about some of the other's, so that's good to know.
Well, That’s disappointing. His very first recommendation is a “Honey Locust”……. Honey Locust is a NON-nitrogen fixing legume. Makes me question everything else he says, seriously, Show me a single study saying it fixes nitrogen and how many lbs per acre. Searching online I can see some academic sites claim it might fix nitrogen (which generally means a very low amount of nitrogen).
Mark have you ever grown either of them? What's the response to the soil, to plants nearby? Correct they are not at the top of the list but there is more than one quality to consider in the whole.
Theres shrubs too that grow faster. You can even use comfrey which is basically a weed that is nitrogen fixating and has a deep taproot (be careful because the taproot is so deep you will never be able to get rid of it) just chop and drop it around your plants and it grows super fast
Just learnt nitrogen is a worse greenhouse gas than methane. Even with the synthetic nitrogen added agricultural land has 40% less nitrogen in the soil than it once had. Why is this covered up
Want to learn even more? Check out my online courses : permaculture.study/courses/
Nice job! You do a great job expressing the issues in an easy to understand way.
On the issue of invasives, some locations are more sensitive than others.
In Hawaii, invasive species are running over the native ecosystem and destroying watersheds and poisoning ungulates.
@StefanSobkowiak yeah it's just tough, between high winds high soil ph, low moisture around 10 to 15 inches a year. Than you add in the cold where you can get down to 60 below zero in some of the worst years it just makes it tough that's also why I have livestock as well.
@@rossbrimmer5895 if it was easy almost everyone would be out there. Tough make a great weeding out of those that are too soft.
I have a baby black locust tree that popped up in the deepest part of my corn patch. I'll have to stop by and thank it for doing such good work.
Yes. Just don’t give it a hug or shake a branch. Lol
Transplant it immediately or be prepared to live with it where it is 😊
Thank the Lord who gave you the tree, not the tree.
@@scotth9828. Mother Nature provided the tree.
I'm fortunate to have a lot of those trees and shrubs as native to my property. I have added some redbud to my orchards for both reasons. My native honey locusts have the most wicked thorns you have ever seen. 2 inches or longer and tough. Had a few go through the sole of my boots. My grass and weeds grow fast and I let them go a bit long. Makes for good green manure and food for pollinators. Will have to check out that next video as I'm a couple years into grape vines and kiwis. They really took off this year. Now time to propagate some more.
As usual sir, great info, thanks so much.
Fortunately the honey locusts where I'm at don't have those wicked, tire-busting thorns like the black locusts. ^^;
They also flatten tractor tires. My dad spent many hours taking them out of our woods.
@@robertdouglas8895 have 12 ply tires on mine, no worries. Thankfully I don't have many, but may grow out a few to transplant out on land boundaries. Mix them in on some windbreak plantings.
I am so glad you brought Red Bud ( Cercis canadensis ) to the conversation. For years, I've seen my trees produce copious vegetation, which I use for compost and mulch, so I always believed their were nitrogen-fixing like other legumes. Many 'experts' say they don't fix nitrogen, but I do not see how they could produce such amazing vegetal growth and improve soil otherwise.
I have just planted redbud this year..so stoked to see your comment..I must learn more about this tree..I am in the southeast UK..thanks for sharing
Ailanthus altissima, Paulownia tomentosa and many others don't fix nitrogen and grow even more foliage. So a nitrogen-fixing symbiont is not a necessity for good growth.
@@lorrainegatanianhits8331 Paulownia do fix nitrogen. Ailanthus is a weird one. It has been noted that it has the capacity to 'enable' neighbouring leguminous trees ( such as Black Locust ) to fix even more nitrogen and benefit from this. I'm not really sure how this works, but the data is still being crunched on this one. Ailanthus were originally native to North America, but died out after having become established in Eurasia at a later date. Now that it has been reintroduced to North America, it is an exceptionally rank grower and is mostly known as an invasive weed tree. It grows more vigorously here than in Eurasia.
If it makes lots of biomass, it can increase your souls fertility.
Hardly matters if it fixes nitrogen.
I love mulberry because they can be cut back over and over and still come back, they have no thorns and their wood is almost as durable as black locust.
@@melaniemckenzie9282 The leaves are great for making wreaths, too. Wait till they start turning color, then preserve them.
I'm pretty excited. I'd forgotten about a batch of thornless honey locust seeds I'd scrounged from under a tree 2 years ago. Put them in a damp paper towel and so far 6 have sprouted!
High hopes now to end up with 20, 30 perhaps 40 baby trees. And as my mentor Stefan has taught me, plant them out in the Fall!
Love your talks on the permaculture orchard. Close to our zone. We have sandy soil, a small property that receives daily am mist, and alders naturally here. So good the dark soil. Have followed some of your knowledge, Thank you Mr. Stefan Sobkowiak. Wonderful blessings parallel sowing, never comes back void.
Black Locust can quicly get out of hand here (8 feet in a few months!), so I just keep them pollarded and always have a lot of mulch, same with alders, which are continually planted by the surrounding forest. The locust thorns are not as much as a problem on the soft new growth. The goumis also grow strongly and even provide income from the great fruit. Always good to research general nitrogen fixing shrubs and trees, plant some and see what grows for you. Stefan got me started with this idea of planning space for them when installing my current permaculture orchard, but I was also able to stick other N fixing plants around the established trees with good effect. Many and continual Thanks, Stefan!
Please post a list of the 20 best nitrogen trees and shrubs.
All plants help in fixing nitrogen. Most nitrogen fixation is done by soil-dwelling bacteria that don't have any specific symbiosis with any plant. In other words, nitrogen fixing trees and shrubs are not a necessity.
@@lorrainegatanianhits8331 Also , rocks are good since they leach minerals into the soil.
@@lorrainegatanianhits8331what about legumes?
Alder (black alder) is my favorite
From a simple Google search for nitrogen fixing trees and shrubs:
Some nitrogen-fixing trees and shrubs native to North America include:
Black locust
A tree that can grow up to 170 ft tall and is native to North America. It's a great soil improver and can grow in places where others can't. However, it can be thorny.
Red alder
A tree that's common in the Pacific Northwest.
Ceanothus
A shrub that's common in the Pacific Northwest, including deerbrush and snowbrush.
Lupine
A fast-growing perennial shrub with silvery leaves. There are several types of lupine, including silver, tree, miniature, wild, and riverbank.
Siberian peashrub
A deciduous shrub that can grow up to 10 ft tall and 10 ft wide. It's native to Central Asia and can fit well in orchards.
Bayberry
A semi-evergreen shrub that can grow up to 5-6 ft tall. It's related to wax myrtle and can create colonies via suckering.
Other nitrogen-fixing plants include:
Speckled alder
Leadplant
Groundnut
Canada milk vetch
New Jersey tea
Purple prairie clover
Showy tick trefoil
Round-headed bush clover
Wild senna
WOW! It is fun to watch this fellow. The passion almost overcomes the fanciful thinking. Stay safe.
So inspired by all your thoughtful videos. Thanks for all the love and enthusiasm you put into them. Hoping to build up to start my own orchard here in Pennsylvania! Sending good vibes :)
Go for it! Just start.
Alders ring my property, they are weedy here. I also find the outer branches fall over and rot quickly. They are supposed to be one of the best wood chips for growing mushrooms. Have you heard of Bayberry? It is a native in Acadian regions. Waist high shrub, produces a berry that is highly prized as winter bird feed, and can be boiled to produce wax for candles.
Yes if they both grow wild nearby USE them.
We have abundant red alder. Dig the soil under a mature alder. So rich! Easy to grow. Seems to tolerate proper hedge laying (so far), and might coppice nicely. All that together, makes me think they're way more valuable than people expect.
I'm getting ready to experiment with it as a sacrificial pioneer canopy over young fruit trees. I can cut them back over time to expose the growing fruit trees and shrubs, ultimately sacrificing them completely, into mulch, as a succession strategy. As long as the blackberries can be kept in check ...
Thank you for shouting this from the "mountain top." 🌱 ❤️
Great points I was wondering why a new cherry tree was growing so fast. I realized there's a shagbark hickory nearby. Found it too is a nitrogen fixer. Will have to cut it every yr but a hickory bush might not be a bad thing. 😂
Where did you learn that shagbark hickory is a nitrogen fixer?
@peterellis4262 I wish I remembered where I read it. Perhaps bad info paired with coincidence.
In NZ the native Kowhai and Kakabeak, tree lucerne all easy to grow from seed and birds love them
I bought a new property in Vermont and all of the access roads through the wooded areas were/are overgrown with Black Birch saplings so thick they were impassable while the wooded areas are easy walking older Hemlock, White Pine and Oak woods. It made me think they are obviously some pioneer type tree, but I was unsure since the soil in these woodland access roads would easily support any tree growth.
While researching Alders for my area, I discovered they are in the birch family under a different genus. That reminded me of the Black Birch and I just discovered that they are suspected nitrogen fixers.
It’s quite enjoyable to see all these dots connecting.
Good observation, most pioneers are soil improvers.
Thank you for teaching me about Nitrogen fixing trees.
I love thornless honey locusts as shade trees around the house.
They don't bother anyone & the leaflets blow away in the fall so you don't have to clean up mess.
We've also got a redbud tree right off our patio that's humming with bees every spring. You can also make a delicate jam from the red buds in the spring.
I have red clay which is high in minerals but lacks any nitrogen. Sweet gum and autumn olive can take over my landscape because of their ability to fix nitrogen. I am often battlin the sweet gums taking over
Huge fan of your videos. Applying it on my own property. But please consider cutting back on the Stock video clips. I really liked your earlier style without all the interrutions. Now I kinda feel Im getting that tik Tok Vibe instead of the calming flow it used to have. Greetings from Denmark
Noted!
Thank you for this great video! The treasure for me inside this video is to find out which are the Native species where I live, because they will be much easier for growing and get the results the soil needs; customized list for my place🤩🙏✨
Thank you for the wonderful video. I hope everyone is having a great day. Sheila Mink in New Mexico
You are so welcome!
I have a Sea buckthorn / Sea berry that is self fertilizing, it does have thorns however! It does not die back in western Norway, but I basically live right by the coastline north of Bergen. I planted one between two sweet cherries this year :) I've also made tons of air grafts to clone my trees! I've got a lot of peaches and apricot trees grown from seed that I hope will turn out well too :)
Wow, the Gulf Stream always amazes me how far North you can grow what we can't grow at 45 North.
I need some help, Stefan. I have a ton of black locust trees that grow everywhere in my orchard. The more I cut them from the ground, the more they show up next year. How would you recommend dealing with them? I've noticed the thorns are not that large when they're young, I'm fine with that, my soil is poor, so now, that I've learned they improve soil I wouldn't want them out for good. I was thinking of using glyphosate first, but I don't like fighting nature. How should I integrate them in a permaculture approach? Kindly thank you for reading!
Depends what you want long term. They are preparing the way (you said poor soil) for other tree species to come in. Definitely not the glyphosate route. You can determine where you want to access and just keep them out of those access routes.
Loving your educational videos! Learning lots. Off topic, but I'm curious what the wire we see among the trees is? For grapes, or training branches? Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge!
Wire overhead for overhead sprays of whey and for frost protection, low wires hold old drip irrigation system. Random wires short are used for branch training.
Have you tried goumi berries? I found a bunch growing under oak trees and I am thinking about moving some in the garden with the other fruit trees
Just tried some first time this year, will grow more. Very good.
Merci pour cette vidéo! La question qui me vient quand j'entends parler des fixateurs d'azote, c'est la portée de leur action. A quelle distance ils agissent. Cela aiderait à planifier leur disposition dans le verger. Merci d'avance pour votre réponse.
Environ la hauteur de l’arbre est la distance des racines.
@@StefanSobkowiak merci beaucoup 😊
Black alder is one of my favorites (cause it grows naturally here, and really quick too), but i'm pretty sure chestnut and sycamore would be awesome as well
Love the video and info, suggestion: cut your video time in half.
Black locust, yellow locust, yellow locust, and American Redbud are all good nitrogen-fixers, and the redbud has beautiful flowers which make great jelly in the, Spring, when few other fruits are yet avalable.
We have native redbud on our property & it is popping up everywhere. I never heard of making jelly with the flowers. They are excellent raw. Native American candy❤
try planting "newjersey tea shrubs" its a NATIVE shrub that fixes the nitrogen in the soil.
Seaberries remind me of citrus fruit on a small scale. They are rich in vitamin c & e. Citrus like fruit that can be grown outdoors in Canada (max zone 3 - perhaps 2). But can be tricky to pick especially if the variety is thorny.
What about a Mimosa? I have a volunteer in my garden and I've left it because I love the tree, but also wondered since it is a legume. It is only about 1 foot tall now, but I know they are prolific growers.
Great choice, it’s outside our climate zone.
This is awesome, thank you!
You're very welcome!
Really love ur video, am oganic farmer.gb.
Thanks and welcome
Thank you! I have a Big black locust, and it seems as though the cold hardy kiwi planted at its base, doesn't like it... It appears to not want to touch it... Any ideas, similar experience?
I'm not sure we planted any on the black locust, I think we only used grape. Good observation. Worth trying again.
Yep notheast wyoming is definitely a tough area to grown things with our high ph lay lol im getting ready to try planting buffalo berry. Our soil hear in wyoming is in general poor soil.
Good luck! There is usually some native plant that works well in every area.
Half of the plants he mentions "How well does it fix nitrogen? ... not sure" lol
Hello, we live in Vermont, US and 5 years ago planted 3 types of apple trees, honey delicious, granny smith and Macintosh red. We have only gotten 2-3 apples per tree since a couple of years ago. We were considering fertilizing next spring plus some serious pruning. Any suggestions you can provide to increase production are very much appreciated. Regular viewer of your vlog, thanks for all the tips!
Did they bloom? If so did you have a late frost? Otherwise it seems like they may be in the shade. Otherwise a renewal pruning should help.
1:55 I use my own urine. Sometimes dilated. The lease amount of work and expensive is what I use.
Almost all your suggestions are different types of (Elaeagnaceae). If you like these plant family so much, maybe a video about the similarities and differences of all of them would be good
In a few years when I’ve had a chance to see how and what they do over time.
You didn't mention my favorite one for tropical regions: Inga edulis!
I've got a few questions. Very interesting. How big an area versus hight will the tree/ bush fix nitrogen? I'm assuming it's the roots doing the work. Sunlight is an important consideration when planting, how do you balance the trees light needs with my tomatoes light needs? My salad stuff may welcome the summer shade, but these are questions I need to consider.
You can change the amount of sun by pruning the tree, even pruning them hard. The effect is about equal to the height of the tree in distance.
i was thinking of trying pigeon pea
Please partner with the arbor day foundation and ask them to sell these trees. thanks
question sir... what mushroom would you try in a orchard
Am growing morels and Giant puffballs, would like to add giant garden mushrooms (stropharia) and shiitakes on logs. Really depends on your soil, if you are not using fungicides the best suited ones to your soil will begin to appear but some can be inoculated.
@@StefanSobkowiak sir you are awesome. we are very rich, as in cow manure mixed deep . thank you so very much
Ii'm building some of your birdhouse designs. Iv'e seen them with the front opening instead of the sides. Doe it matter which way? I notice you plans open to the side for maintenance. (sorry this is probably posted on the birdhouse video).
It does make a difference in bird preference. If you open the side and there’s a bird inside they are used to escaping by the hole.
All true and informative... watching from glecious tv your new friend
Thanks for commenting and enjoying.
Most of leguminaceae family plants can fix atmospheric nitrogen in the soil. They can restore and reclaim the fertility of the soil.
Google says that Rooibos tea plant is also a Nitrogen Fixer.
Can't be grown except in Western Cape. People all over the world have tried.
@@karenessauthor My future Dream includes multiple greenhouses with varying microclimates.... so, challenge accepted (in the future lol)
Thanks Stefan
What about using clovers ?
Go for it, but you may need to renew it every 3-5 years.
Hi! @12:35, the subtitle said Goji, but you said Gumi. Are they the same thing? And if not, which one did you mean?
Thanks for pointing it out. It's a goumi. Not the same. Goumi is a fruit bearing nitrogen fixing shrub. Goji is a fruit bearing (smaller fruit) shrub but does not fix nitrogen. We have both but want a LOT more goumi, the fruit is wonderful and the birds love it.
I store my urine in a large gallon for 3 months. Boil it to 90 degree centigrade and allow to cool. I dilute 1 litre urine with 5 litres water and spray on the base and root of my plant or trees that is free Nitrogen that is organic. 50 litres of urine can fertilize a plot of 200 metres by 200 metres. You can do that once every 2 month. It is free Nitrogen. There is also small amount of potassium and phosphorus in it. Boiling to 90 degree centigrade will kill all pathogens in the urine. Ensure you don't take medicine or drug 48 hours before urinating. We don't want and drugs or medicine to interfer with our organic fertilizer. You can add other potassium and phosphorus to boost your yield.
Your house must smell interesting.
Yes, how do you deal with the smell?
50 liters of urine wont even make much of a difference on 10x10 meters. It wont do anything on 200x200. where did you get that nonsense calculation?
there is absolutely no reason to boil it. that is completely unhinged
😳🤔
question. can you interplant these into an already existing forest or would it destabilize the ecosystem or something? Im planning my own forest.
Usually the nitrogen fixing trees are soil improvers, preparing the way for forest trees. Once the forest is established there are far fewer N fixing trees needed.
@@StefanSobkowiak another question. Would you know how the nitrogen behaves under the ground? As in, would it flow downhill below the tree or is it in a stable form only usable to the plants directly around it.
I saw in another video. A gentleman had a large seabuckthron in a pasture. He chopped it down and everything downhill from the tree kept growing that summer. Grass would grow 1 or 2 feet a week.
Good question I don’t know, I thought it would stay put.
How large an area does a tree or shrub impact with fixing nitrogen?
About the height of the tree.
@@StefanSobkowiak thank you!
From what understand. Nitrogen fix plants store the nitrogen in their rots and take it back up to produce flowers and fruit. So there is no gain unless you stop the plant from flowering and fruiting. Im I wrong about this?
Nitrogen-fixing plants, such as legumes (e.g., beans, peas, clovers), have a symbiotic relationship with bacteria (Rhizobium) that live in nodules on their roots. These bacteria convert atmospheric nitrogen into ammonia, which the plant can use to synthesize amino acids and other nitrogen-containing compounds. When the plant dies, the nitrogen stored in its tissues becomes available for other plants as the plant decomposes.
However, nitrogen-fixing plants can also benefit the soil and other plants in several ways before they die:
Root nodules release excess nitrogen: As the bacteria in the root nodules convert atmospheric nitrogen into ammonia, some of this nitrogen is released into the soil, where it can be taken up by other plants. This process is called "nitrogen fixation."
Plant tissues release nitrogen: As the plant grows, it sheds leaves, twigs, and other tissues that contain nitrogen. These tissues decompose and release nitrogen into the soil, making it available for other plants.
Rhizodeposition: The roots of nitrogen-fixing plants release organic compounds (e.g., sugars, amino acids) into the soil through a process called rhizodeposition. These compounds support the growth of beneficial soil microorganisms, which can improve soil health and fertility.
Soil structure improvement: The root systems of nitrogen-fixing plants help improve soil structure by creating channels and pores, which can enhance water infiltration, aeration, and nutrient cycling.
By planting nitrogen-fixing trees and other plants, you can improve soil fertility and support the growth of other plants in your garden or ecosystem. While it's true that the full benefit of nitrogen fixation occurs when the plant dies, the other benefits mentioned above can be realized throughout the plant's life cycle.
Don't stop the plant from flowering or fruiting... just allow the flowers and fruits to return to the soil.
Pruning the plant each year will initiate a release of N . Use the pruning for mulch to return nutrients to the soil and assist in storing soil moisture while maintaining soil temperature. 🇦🇺
You are basically right. This video is mostly asinine. Nitrogen is the biggest boon to humanity ever created and harnessed. People used to toil on the soil for a meager 10bu/acre of wheat lol. The internet has gone cuckoo.
@@amontodd6483true. Not just the internet tho, many academics have lost it.
Also, I would say that anthropogenic deposition of N is the single greatest thing humans have done, not just for themselves, but also for the entire biosphere.
What about potassium and phosphorus fixers?
For those elements it’s more like concentrators since they are not in the air.
Great video! And its regimen, not regime
Sorry my French peeking through
Honey locust, coffeetree, and redbud all do not develop root nodules. Legumes that dont form nodules are only about half as good of a nitrogen fixer as the ones that do ( e.g. black locust, persian silk mimosa, black alder)
True
Moringa tree shrub?
moringa is not a nitrogen fixer. but it is a great plant for poor soils
May I ask, in what region do you live?. I'm in upper Michigan.
Similar climate, in Southern Quebec USDA zone 4
I have watched so many of your videos and learned a ton from you. Thank you for all that you've taught me.
However, I wish you would please reconsider encouraging hundreds of thousands of people all over the globe to plant invasive species. These plants may be great on your farm, but when the birds eat the berries and spread them into wilderness that no one is maintaining, these plants are an ecological disaster. Where I live for instance, the autumn olives have taken over acres of my property. I've never seen a hole in the leaf of an Autumn Olive here. The insects here simply can't eat them. These types of plants are the perfect invaders because deer and rabbits won't eat them, birds love to spread their berries for miles around, and they can shade and outcompete every native plant because of their nitrogen fixing abilities. Outcompeting the native plants means no host plants for native insects. Fewer native insects means fewer native amphibians. The effects of these invasive nitrogen fixers displacing native plants ripples throughout the ecosystem, driving native plants and animals extinct.
There are so many native nitrogen fixers for every climate, please encourage your viewers to focus on planting nitrogen fixers that are native to their region. Or direct them towards male nitrogen fixers that don't produce seeds without a female companion. People may think they're doing a good thing by using less chemical fertilizers, when in fact they may be having devastating unintended consequences for wilderness areas near their farm.
The Thornless honey locust will produce seeds that will be trees with Thorns, you will have to collect all the seeds.
It depends on where the tree is and what trees are surrounding it. We have thornless and most of the trees on the farm are thornless. There are no native honey locusts growing wild nearby. So they cross with thornless and will give over 90% thornless seedlings.
@@StefanSobkowiak No. I have seen what happens, I have seen the trees, it is a nightmare in about 50 years time. Your Honey Locust a thornless Hybrid, and the seeds will be the original tree, which has thorns.
@@StefanSobkowiak AI says it is not a hybrid, yet I think it is acting like one.
"No, thornless honey locust trees are not a hybrid and will not produce seeds that have thorns, but some offspring may have thorns"
Once the thorny offspring grows up and seeds, you will have thorny trees everywhere.
@@StefanSobkowiak The thornless trees were given to farmers in USA and Australia back in the 1950s to improve the land. The farmers just planted them and did nothing else, by the 1980s almost all the trees that spread down the valley had giant thorns, I seen one go through a girl's foot.
Best seaberry cultivar?
The Ukrainian selections because they are thornless. Don't know their names offhand.
Julius Hensel wrote BREAD FROM STONES.
It along with his life lessons and wisdom are still used today and show their value in depleted plants.
He was at the forefront of opposition for Big Fuel that had influenced the industrial farmers through their nitrogen rich fertilizers.
It is disgusting how our lands and waters as well as bodies and minds have been poisoned over time as we are born onto this modern failures of repetition.
Great book.
Looking for Australian native nitrogen fixers
Just try those exact words in a search.
Hey Stefan, How do you get the Nitrogen in the soil from these trees to the trees in your orchard?
The soil life and the tree roots act as transport.
In the UK a friend on heavy clay soil planted two cherry tree saplings, one a meter or so from a mixed hedge, the other 5 or 6m away. The nearer one is now 5 times as tall. 'Competition' isn't so harsh as we might think...
@@timbushell8640
Most of those trees are Taller than the Fruit trees especially when the fruit trees are young. And in His orchard he won't be able to plant Large trees that will take up all that space and still maintain an orchard. And these trees will also compete for nutrients in the soil along with root space. Your answer is overly simplistic and not really addressing my issue.
@@Toronado2
Most orchard trees are pruned to desired shortness. Being a short person myself, I have bonsai in mind.
@karensmith4336
Yeah well how do you think a Short fruit tree will do next to a 100' locust tree ? And how much space will you lose if you start planting these Huge trees in your orchard?
@Toronado2
That depends entirely on how big of an area you have and what shape it is as well as what planting zone you're in. Keep in mind, you are not required to have at least one of each of these trees. These are suggestions for what you might want to choose from. Stefan is not going to be standing behind you with a bull whip watching to see if you make a 'wrong' decision. You may pick and choose. You don't even have to pick any of these.
Terra preta -- adding biochar mixed with compost tea up to 25% of total soil volume, up to three meters deep -- augments nitrogen fixing, soil fertility, and water management. Give it a shot. Also, consider Miyawaki forest methods with these nitrogen-fixing trees and shrubs.
3m deep!! How do you do that?
@@StefanSobkowiak That is an awesome question!
There are plenty who do it to the normal depth of SOCs, eight inches or so, maybe a bit deeper in raised beds, and they get decent results. What was found in the Amazon, black earth "do Indio", went down much farther, going back 2500 years and still active and fertile.
The first people to do it did it a fraction of an inch a season on average, for five hundred years. They'd do 'cultural burnings' and then stomp the charcoal down into the dirt with their feet, the way people stomp wine, is the archeologists' best guess. But then, in those days people were more patient, I suppose.
The way I've seen it happen in person was by accident, when a city buried the charred trunks of a patch burned down by wildfire in the 1950's. Thirty years later, the whole two acre area could not be flooded no matter how much it rained, and the meadow above it never went brown in the hottest, driest summer. Productive and fertile, without any treatment at all.
I don't expect many would bury a forest and wait thirty years.
My hope is, if you have an earth mover, a trencher only needs a few inches wide by 9-10' deep every so often the width of a field: fill the trench with terra preta and nature will take care of mixing it into neighboring soils by diffusion over time. This is not much different from putting in subsoil water retention trenches (biochar is hydrophobic, so terra preta acts like drainage tiles), and kills two birds with one stone if you have seasonal drought or flood issues, with proper design. Of course, that's a huge volume of biochar to make with cone fires or steel drum airless burners.
Do it enough years over time, shifting the trench over a few feet each time, or cross-hatching with cuts at 90 degrees to the original, and in a generation, who knows?
One day, when I'm ambitious enough, I hope to try it as a project.
@@bartroberts1514 great observations and intuition. I was thinking of using a post hole digger instead of a trench, since I would need far less biochar to start.
@@StefanSobkowiak Post hole digger is a good way to go, too. Having worked my way through summers as a gravedigger, I am well familiar with how much diffusion can mix soil below ground. I'd also thought of the potential of horizontal drilling techniques, such as used to install underground cables and pipes.
That, after all, is the goal of terra preta: an underground pipe of water permeable nutrient base that creates drainage, storage and filtration while hosting nitrate-fostering microbes.
I have no idea if these speculations will work, really, other than the way the pre-Columbians did it thousands of years ago. But it seems worth investing, if it can replace synthetic fertilizer, in research.
Urine is approximately 11-1-2 NPK. Nitrogen is the easiest free thing to get! That much nitrogen can become problematic: you need some more P and K. I have started cooking homemade bone meal slurry with the Instant Pot and my 600 watt blender. Best tomatoes ever this year.
JUst what I need more brush on the property.
The Chapter heading has "Carnation" instead of Caragana. Not interchangeable ;)
Good catch!
12:44 how far away is your goumi from your apple?
About 10'
Thank you, Stefan.
I planted eastern redbuds in my trio’s for the beautiful blossoms and I have lots of black locusts on the property.
Question: Any recommendations on where to buy Somerset grape vines from? Thanks.
Just look up fruit nurseries or grape nurseries
Is a moringa tree, nitrogen fixing?
I think so, anyone have it?
@@StefanSobkowiak I do, cut & drop to harvest nitrogen…rareseeds has the dwarf variety, best for between trees…
David The Good uses them.
@shaagarey469 @stefansobkowiak moringa does not fix nitrogen. it's related to brassicas and papayas. has nothing to do with legumes, just looks slightly similar to some leguminous trees. it is used as a "dynamic accumulator" and tolerates poor soil, but that doesn't make it a nitrogen fixer
I've read that nitrogen-fixing plants do not release their nitrogen into the soil until their roots die back. In the case of these trees, that would mean them having to die before you get the benefit of their nitrogen. Am I missing something? I don't want to wait for decades to add nitrogen into the soil. Clover is a better nitrogen fixer on the timescales we want, since its roots die back partially every year, or every week if you mow it weekly.
A hard prune or pollard cut will encourage the tree/shrub to self prune roots, which will release nitrogen into the soil. Geoff Lawton suggests doing your chop and dropping (pruning) when the moisture in the environment is over evaporation, aka wet seasons or rains. Hope this helps!
I heard the same. I don't think the plant needs to die though, but it should be a plant that stands up well to repeated pollarding or coppicing, which supposedly kills off some of the roots and as those decay, it slowly leaches off nitrogen into the surrounding soil
Plants will share their resources while living. Most people are not aware of this, I'm not sure if it's 'new' discovery or if the information is kept quiet to help sales of fertilizer.
False indigo is also a nitrogen fixer. I opted for clover and false indigo because I have a smaller space. I also wondered about licorice, because it too is a legume.
Fungi spread everything everywhere…
Build cheap soil test kit. What's less and what's high elements in the soil then balance with nutrition u want in the human body or animal body
Black Locus is toxic to another trees (except grapes) and can be in some amount also to human. Its true that its also great nitrogen fixer mainly in dry areas. However this should have been also mentioned :)
It is not toxic to all plants. Many planta are growing faster, if there is black locust close to it. We have more black locust trees in Hungary, than the rest of Europe together. The biggest problem, that it is invasive. 30% of all trees in Hungary are black locust.
Which trees are affected?
@@StefanSobkowiak maybe he means black walnut?
@@JerzeyGardenZ yes, my mistake, sorry for that. Btw @StefanSobkowiak I like this channel. Nice to spread out a lot of yours experience.
Caragana is listed as toxic to microorganisms on u of t site. I was thinking of planting this but reconsidering.
!!
Tithonia Diversifolia rocks!!!
no autumn olive, extremely invasive, prohibited in most states.
... land of the free... odd that, but that isn't even the entire reach of RUclips.
I think I pointed it out, ours freeze back to the snow level every few years so it’s self pruning.
@@timbushell8640 read your deed.
@@StefanSobkowiak you did.
You sort of do need the legumes to provide the material and matter without decreasing soil nitrogen levels then grow big rooted plants to take the nitrogen carbon from the material matter and put it into the soil
Carbon/nitrogen... cyanide you mean? : )))
Why don’t you want honey bees 🐝? 10:36
We don't need them anymore and when we had them they caused over pollination that led to broken branches and tree tops. We don't thin.
My understanding of nitrogen-fixing plants is that they don't give up their nitrogen to other plants until they die. How does planting these trees do any good for the soil if you have to wait decades for them to die?
Nitrogen-fixing plants, such as legumes (e.g., beans, peas, clovers), have a symbiotic relationship with bacteria (Rhizobium) that live in nodules on their roots. These bacteria convert atmospheric nitrogen into ammonia, which the plant can use to synthesize amino acids and other nitrogen-containing compounds. When the plant dies, the nitrogen stored in its tissues becomes available for other plants as the plant decomposes.
However, nitrogen-fixing plants can also benefit the soil and other plants in several ways before they die:
Root nodules release excess nitrogen: As the bacteria in the root nodules convert atmospheric nitrogen into ammonia, some of this nitrogen is released into the soil, where it can be taken up by other plants. This process is called "nitrogen fixation."
Plant tissues release nitrogen: As the plant grows, it sheds leaves, twigs, and other tissues that contain nitrogen. These tissues decompose and release nitrogen into the soil, making it available for other plants.
Rhizodeposition: The roots of nitrogen-fixing plants release organic compounds (e.g., sugars, amino acids) into the soil through a process called rhizodeposition. These compounds support the growth of beneficial soil microorganisms, which can improve soil health and fertility.
Soil structure improvement: The root systems of nitrogen-fixing plants help improve soil structure by creating channels and pores, which can enhance water infiltration, aeration, and nutrient cycling.
By planting nitrogen-fixing trees and other plants, you can improve soil fertility and support the growth of other plants in your garden or ecosystem. While it's true that the full benefit of nitrogen fixation occurs when the plant dies, the other benefits mentioned above can be realized throughout the plant's life cycle.
@@nocapitals9833 "Root nodules release excess nitrogen" - This part I hadn't heard of before, that they leak nitrogen into the soil while they're still alive.
annual and perennial plants drop leaves as they grow, not just when they die. leaves are incredibly rich in protein (and therefore nitrogen). have you heard of chop and drop?
@@vlogsohard Yes, of course, but that refers to organic materials left on the surface, not to fixed nitrogen released beneath the surface.
@@djmoulton1558 the best way to feed the soil is from above. when you learn to plant trees, you learn to top dress with fertilizer and mulch, not mix it into the planting hole. this is how plants get most of their fertility in natural systems, and that's what we imitate. this is why plants grow most of their feeder roots in the top few inches of soil. starting with nutrients above the soil allows them the most chance to get absorbed by the roots, rather than washing out and polluting the oceans. nutrients belong on top of the soil. most of the nitrogen is going to be absorbed by the plant that associates with the nitrogen fixer, and that's a good thing. leaves are a top-tier fertilizer, and the main fertilizer used by nature.
Lupin flower plants are nitrogen fixers too put a few of them at the base of trees.🫡
Is there anything that could be done to combat Asian Jumping Worms in perma culture?❤
Thanks in advance 💖
No experience with them.
Those Russian Olive thorns though 😤
"Please post a list of the 200 best nitrogen trees and shrubs."
200! How about you do the research and post it.
I love this guy and have been watching his channel for years. But I have yet to see the actual abundance of fruit on his trees. Is there any videos of harvest or actual fruit?
Last falls walk was during a record abundance (look for september or october videos).
Я тебя нашёл - ура!!!
"what did plants do before the advent of synthetics?" -- it grew slower and steadier. . . which is not financially or social-sustainably viable.
My husband and I bought a derelict property in the 1990’s. Can’t tell you how many times he had to fix the tractor tires due to the thorned honey locus.❤
Absolutely, thornless all the way.
I hate Russian Olive Tree's, they spread everywhere, but my livestock loves them & they do come back, even if you cut them down to the ground. They will shred a horse in a heartbeat. Honey Locust is another one i despise. It spreads by roots & seed, i have the thorn variety. I didn't know about some of the other's, so that's good to know.
Try adding some seeds from thornless HL, the animals love the leaves and no thorns.
Is there a scientific study of how much nitrogen the different trees put in? I just see that a lot of the talk is vague
There are a few (at least one), I never looked up how they measured it.
Autum olives THORNY
Spread like wildfire every open area outcompete
Native plants
Scourge of homesteads
Great compost and free fruit!
Lucaena good
You left out my favorite: ceanothus
We have one on test, seems to need more humidity than we have.
Well, That’s disappointing. His very first recommendation is a “Honey Locust”…….
Honey Locust is a NON-nitrogen fixing legume. Makes me question everything else he says, seriously, Show me a single study saying it fixes nitrogen and how many lbs per acre.
Searching online I can see some academic sites claim it might fix nitrogen (which generally means a very low amount of nitrogen).
And of course he then mentions red bud…. Another NON-nitrogen fixer
Mark have you ever grown either of them? What's the response to the soil, to plants nearby? Correct they are not at the top of the list but there is more than one quality to consider in the whole.
Wouldn’t it waste more time waiting for a tree to grow than it would to use fertilizer? 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Theres shrubs too that grow faster. You can even use comfrey which is basically a weed that is nitrogen fixating and has a deep taproot (be careful because the taproot is so deep you will never be able to get rid of it) just chop and drop it around your plants and it grows super fast
Absolutely easier. May as well use all the pesticides as well and get on the treadmill, a lot of farmers are on it, join them.
Autumn Olive may fix nitrogen, but it also has allelopathic chemicals. Don't plant it.
Just learnt nitrogen is a worse greenhouse gas than methane. Even with the synthetic nitrogen added agricultural land has 40% less nitrogen in the soil than it once had. Why is this covered up
That is the question. It’s not covered up when you look at regenerative ag sites/ videos.
Maybe money is being made???
The air is 78% nitrogen. On a cloudless night it can freeze. Don't believe stupid claims, use your brain.
Just googled it nitrogen is not a greenhouse gas. Nitrogen containing compounds can be but nitrogen gas isn't.
@@Songer80 as nitrous oxide it is.
I just plant clovers around my fruiting plants.