I am Brazilian and currently practicing Agroforestry, also known as Syntropic Farming. I am also a certified permaculture designer. The key to syntropic agroforestry lies in the role humans play in the system, particularly through regular pruning and covering the ground with the material. This practice generates a significant pulse for the system, which accelerates regeneration by maximizing photosynthesis. Often, people unfamiliar with syntropic methods misunderstand its purpose and view it as a competitor to permaculture. However, the reality is different. Permaculture is a collection of techniques that address various aspects of human living, drawing from indigenous and traditional knowledge. In contrast, agroforestry is focused on restoring and creating agroecosystems. The two approaches complement each other well. You're viewing syntropic farming as a static recipe, but that’s simply not true. There are countless experiences and adaptations in different climates, scales, focus, etc. In fact, even within permaculture’s food forest strategy, you can apply syntropic techniques such as pruning, stratification, ground mulching, succession, and more. These methods are not exclusive to syntropic farming; they can enhance and complement permaculture practices as well.
Hi Filip! Thank you for the comment and sharing your experience. My intention wasn't to portray syntropic farming as a competitor to permaculture. In fact, I encouraged to combine the two systems especially if people live outside the tropics. I view Permaculture's water management strategies as unbeatable very first step to developing a site. This requires people to be super patient as they are keen to plant the trees straight away. While establishing syntropic food forest alone could work on sites where water is scarce, it sometimes may require so much more effort to keep the plants alive or bring the water in a complicated and costly way. Permaculture could fix these issues right from the beginning. That's why you don't see syntropic farming cases in deserts, but you see permaculture food forests in deserts. It doesn't mean syntropic farming is worse than Permaculture. I said both are wonderful systems, restoring the soil's health, increasing biodiversity and so much more. But we have to be realistic on sites where the conditions are harsh.
Many aspects of Permaculture could be used in Syntropic Farming. Also, in Syntropic Farming, almost all plants from all layers are planted at the same time, since many plants from higher layers grow slowly (like the biggest trees). The heavy pruning is used to not just add organic matter on the soil but to have more light going to the lower plants, increasing their growth. Planning on this system is pretty hard since you need to have a overall vision on what the system will be in like 10 to 20 years from the first seed planted, even tough you could plant many more types of crops before that time. Syntropic farming also could use machines to do the heavy work, but not many conventional machines unfortunately. And even though it is used as a regenerative farming, it have a big potential to large scale production.
Thanks for your input! That's why it's important to consult with an expert in this field. It's not that easy unless people have lots of time to experiment and money.
For an autonomous small grower like me I find 2 interesting things in Syntropic that I can apply in my own small Orchard-veggies garden. Plant densification and more pruning in order to improve my soil more rapidly and limit or even eliminate the necessity to import biomass. Be able to produce his own biomasse is a big advantage in an era where we will see more and more ressource shortages. For the rest I do not like the fact that we let the successions take place to harvest only what is available in the thriving stage.
I am from the western ghats of India and have been generally trying to understand how to proceed on a farm land I recently bought with an existing forest on it. While permaculture is quite spoken about around me, not much is happening about Syntropic farming. Thanks for the effort in presenting the fundamental approach of both.
Permaculture seems so much further reaching than syntropic farming, that syntropic farming almost feels like it is one more tool to be added to permaculture's toolkit. But the fact that syntropic farming is more specific in its purpose means that it may be more accessible to farmers who are completely new to the concepts both convey. Permaculture has so many aspects to it that it's possible a newcomer may become dissuaded from it entirely. A tldr may be: syntropic farming is a design technique while permaculture is design philosophy.
I agree, permaculture is very overwhelming to those who are not predisposed to it. Syntropic agriculture is agriculture and therefore is much easier to teach to regular farmers. I think especially in tropical climates it has a much better chance of reaching a wider audience and providing more impact simply because as agriculture it focuses on providing income for the farmer.
According to a permaculture coach on yt… he views permaculture as an umbrella category… food forests, regenerative and more are essentially permaculture… like succulents are an umbrella category, but not all succulents are cacti … but all cacti are succulents
I like drawing from both teachings to see what fits my needs. The thing I do worry about is when advocates of either practice focus so much on what works quickly that they encourage potential growers to use what I consider 'future invasives'. While I also want to have a food forest type set up, it can be hard when general advice is adamant about certain fast growing plants. I highly recommend anyone interested to reach out to your local plant experts as well to see what can be incorporated with your project! 🌳😀
I think there is a misunderstanding about syntropic agriculture mainly because its a whole different paradigm (wich its incredible important for permaculture) about how we understand our role and function as humans. In my experience every permaculture place that integrates syntropic principles to their food production system never goes back to the other ways they were doing it, not only the food forest and the orchard (that now can go toghether so the zonning of that changes), so there are completely complementary, and an incredible knowledge that makes opens more the experience to regenerate a place. Maybe the experience of Permadynamics in New Zealand can show better this. Cheers
There is myth that syntropic famirng its only for tropical climates because it was firstly developed in Brazil, but Ernst comes from Swizterland and talks a lot about how he took the knowledge that his parents teach him doing agroforestry systems wich was the way to do agricuture in those places before the green revolution, the second thing is that the main knowledge about food forests comes from the developments in the UK and are in temperate climate. Syntropic agriculture is a set of principles that can be used to create a food forest, a ecological restoration project, a comercial agricultural enterprice, and works in every climate. Please look out for more experiences from mediterranean and temperate climate if you want to know how it works there. The last thing is that the planting in lines its maynly because in the near future the intensive management of the places makes it more easy, but you can choose to plant in other ways, actually many small projects start with "abundance nests". I think that we should stop doing this comparinsons of things that are from the same side of the coin, permaculture is a vision with a set of principles that guide design of human habitats and syntropic agricultures is a practice that takes the principles and process that nature does to creat healthy ecosystems, when we combine both we have and incredible potential and actually as I mentioned in the comment before all the permaculture principles apply to syntropic agriculture in a very elegant and simple way. A best way to look it is that you have an agricutural systema that connects ecosytem process with human presence, witch to my understanding is exactly what permaculture wants to achieve and its the way many indiginous cultures developed.
Thanks for all the info. Ernst Gotsch publications on adopting syntropic farming to other climates seem to missing or unavailable. If you have access to resources guiding people on how to apply this system in other climates than tropical, feel free to share these resources here. I am sure people reading the comments will find it invaluable. Thanks for your input!
You say that in syntropic farming you plant in steps but according to my understanding, plants are planted all at the same time the first year. So while the trees are still small and growing you can harvest small plants and with time the small plants are disappearing because trees are making more and more shade and use more and more soil ressources. We then end up with a mature forest where you can harvest wood, fruits or nuts. Syntropic is not good if you want to produce vegetables for many years. Syntropic seems to me a good option if your end goal is to produce a forest.
I agree with you. From what I read about syntropic farming, plants are chosen and planted based on their role in the ecosystem and their stage in the succession process. Early successional species, which are fast-growing and short-lived, are planted first. These plants prepare the soil and create conditions for the next stage of plants, which might be slower-growing but longer-lived. As trees and larger plants grow, they begin to create more shade and compete for soil nutrients and water. I guess, the choice of syntropic agriculture depends on specific goals. If the primary objective is long-term vegetable production, adjustments in design and management are necessary. If the goal is to establish a forest system with secondary vegetable yields, syntropic agriculture might be well-suited.
Vegetable based syntropic farms just have biomass plants in rows (Eucalyptus and banana for example) wood would be chipped for use of the vegetables, or rotation with crops like cassava So yes you can produce vegetables for many years you can watch many documentaries of farms that function exactly as that
Did you really just study Agroforestry on the internet 😮 I am impressed you did an excellent job in gathering data! do you also speak Portuguese…? Anyway we’ll done
I think Syntropic farming is better for making profit and can compete with conventional chemical farming. Permaculture seems to be an off-grid community based self sufficient farming .
Thanks for watching and sharing your views, but I think characterizing Permaculture solely as off-grid community-based self-sufficient farming is an oversimplification.
@@granvisiointeresting, I am entering in to it all. Residential lot, going to swale and contour the back yard for permaculture personal grocery row garden/ food forest like say “David the good” and then out front implement a syntropic style with bananas, moringa, and sable palm trees, with saw palmettos potted in areas as well. Then maybe some understory style crops for experimentation with the palms and bananas and any pests the present to the weaker understory crops. Not mention any vining type plants even tomatoes for me would be incorporated as well maybe Seminole pumpkins. Anyways sorry for the nonsense just wanted your professional advice on if the front yard sound syntropic. Just enjoy learning from you all and it’s helping me so much with out even breaking any ground yet!! Thank you 🤙
@@granvisioferal foraging has me entertained in the idea of mandating some native salads and using in the ground cover to seed out good head varieties that may even grow in summer. Basically I am modern and have the ability to play primitive with no actual risk 😅so any suggestions on experimentation I’d love! I’ll leave it be for a few days and check back
@D.I.Y.G Hi! Okay your question is about the feedback on your plan of syntropic food forest. I am not an expert in syntropic farming, but it seems to me your front yard plan does sound syntropic. Also excellent choices of banana and moringa for fast growth and biomass production. Moringa is also highly nutritious. Sable Palm Trees and Saw Palmettos will add to the diversity and structure of your system. For understory crops, consider shade-tolerant crops like ginger, turmeric, and certain leafy greens that thrive under the canopy. Seminole pumpkins and tomatoes can be excellent additions. Ensure they have enough support and sunlight, especially in a densely planted area. Incorporate plants known to repel pests (e.g., marigolds, garlic) and attract beneficial insects (e.g., dill, fennel). Start with small areas, monitor the system, and be ready to make adjustments based on what you learn. Overall, I think your approach is thoughtful and well-planned. For a more thorough advice on syntropic farming, consult with an expert! Good luck!
@D.I.Y.G Hi! Great to hear about your projects! I have no experience in syntropic farming so I will offer you some permaculture guidance. 1. Keep experimenting that’s a good way to learn what will work in your local conditions. But you can also research and plant native edible plants whether it’s greens, herbs, or edible flowers. 2. Don’t worry about spacing, the more the merrier. You don’t want to expose any soil, so the weeds start to pop up! 3. If you have more space to fill besides edible plants, ground cover plants like clover or creeping thyme will help retain moisture, suppress weeds, and provide a habitat for beneficial insects. 4. To maximize nutrient use, pair deep-rooted plants with shallow-rooted ones. 5. Experiment with techniques to extend the plants growing season, like using shade cloths or mulching to protect plants from extreme heat, allowing them to grow even in the summer. 6. Focus on improving soil health through composting and mulching without digging the soil. 7. Experiment with different types of beds. If your plants struggle with heat, use sunken beds. If you have problem with drainage, use raised beds but well mulched. Check out circle gardens (2 feet deep holes filled with mulch and plant around them) where you can grow so many species with minimal work - as you keep throwing compost and irrigate only in one spot. 8. Keep a journal of your experiments, noting what works and what doesn’t, to refine your approach over time. For more tips, I invite you to check out our membership offer at join.granvisio.com
Amazing video! This is so helpful, well explained, and interesting about syntropic farming and permaculture. Videos like this make me hopeful and excited. Thank you!
I'm thinking also about the Miyawaki method. It would be interesting to see Miyawaki, syntropic, and permaculture all compared and contrasted, or to see all three applied or combined on one site. Thank you again for the information and food for thought!
Thanks, I've been looking for good answers to this question. I think for sure the techniques compliment each other, and are somehow two pieces of a puzzle about self sustainability. Love your videos, thanks for sharing your knowledge and good vibes!
Great information. it seems that syntropic ag, although well intentioned, is really missing the big picture of how humans will interaction with these systems long-term and how they fit around a community. Permaculture always accounts for cause and effect, in turn producing more efficient and multifaceted systems that serve the community not just the farmer. Thanks again for the great information you're sharing
In my experience permaculture mostly ignores the very real need for farmers to have income, most permaculture enthusiasts don’t live off their farm income. Farm provided income is one of the key points of syntropic Agriculture.
@@ottoflouer1750 Although many good things were outlined about Syntropics in this video, you have to keep in mind she only had access to partial online info. In fact, a large part of Syntropics is to connect humans with their role within the ecosystem since we have lost touch with that in our modern society and agricultural practices. It goes quite in depth with this the further you study it. So unfortunately, Syntropic Ag was not able to be completely and correctly represented in this explanation
Syntropic agriculture is a technique, whereas permaculture is a wholistic system that can incorporate many techniques to suit the specific local conditions of climate and micro-climate, soil conditions, topography, water cycles and waterways, and also integrating human settlements into the landscape.
very intelligent and informative comprison. I think there is a general lack of information on comparing both because of language zones. I think the best and most site approprite of both can be integrated for great results. You make very good points about choosing which to use. My criticism of both is a lack of sufficient concern for invertebrate and avian biodiversity conservation through native planting in the culture of many practitioners. I wish they would both push native plants harder especially as support plants. In my country there is blindness. why plnt invive lupins when we have hundreds of native N fixers as an example. It requires the courage and imagintion to raise natives for these roles and use them in plantings reflecting local ecosystems. its really not that hard. truth to place is also a point made by gotsch that is most often just forgotten. People calling creating a lush forest in a desert syntropic seems to violate this sensibility.
Hello I thank you very much for these valuable tips, I would love to start with a permaculture project on my own, although the yard where to start is relatively small (I am highly excited to start), which could be the first active steps to start this project?
Hi there! Thank you for your comment. Here are some excellent free resources to get you started: 1. Oregon State University's Intro to Permaculture: workspace.oregonstate.edu/course/free-introduction-to-permaculture This free course covers the basics of permaculture and is a good starting point for beginners. Websites and Blogs 3. Permaculture Research Institute: www.permaculturenews.org/ Offers a wealth of articles, videos, and resources on various permaculture topics. 4. Permies.com: A community-driven site with forums, articles, and videos on permaculture and sustainable living. 5. Permaculture Principles: permacultureprinciples.com/ Offers free downloadable guides and resources on permaculture design principles. If you would like personalized guide, consider joining our paid membership program at join.granvisio.com/. With this membership, you'll gain exclusive access to our Discord community, where you can get your questions answered daily. Prices start at €10 a month. Additionally, in Premium tier you can benefit from webinars and Q&A sessions that dive deep into permaculture design methods and practical tips. This interactive environment will empower you with the knowledge and resources needed to successfully apply permaculture to your area. Let me know if you have any questions!
According to my comprehension, in the Miyawaki method you plant indigenous plants and trees to create a diversified forest while in syntropic it is more farming where you plant edible plants that you will harvest for years until it becomes an edible forest with only big trees.
Yep and it's totally okay. In Permaculture people sometimes till the ground too or use Yeomans plow, which is non-invasive kind of ploughing, but the most important thing is in later stages of site development the rich, fluffy tops soil is developed. I wish the conventional farmers will wake up one day and see what they are missing out.
Comparing permaculture to syntropic farming is like comparing an industrial design process to a certain type of car. Different levels that are not comparable at all. Permaculture is an ethical design system (and not a gardening technique), and a permaculture system might according to the specific design project include syntropic agroforestry if this is a suitable element or it might not, when syntropic farming is not suitable for the project. To help decide whether you might want to implement a certain element in your system - to find out if your conditions are suitable - you can apply a permaculture design process. I would be really happy if at least pc designers could understand and communicate the difference between a design system and a garden element, and maybe then one day no-one would say "I made a permaculture garden" when they installed a herb spiral.
greetings from a permaculture practitioner from Croatia, as far as I can see this technique is interesting, but only 1 of many techniques that can be fully or partially used in permaculture, and only in its part that deals with growing food, it is not for me, but it may be interesting for some people , thank you for the video
I wish i know ten jears ago. Do not plant tree alone but in groups with pioner trees and nitrogen fixing trees. This was the kickstart for my forest garden and this needs to be on any permaculture book on the first page. Also of the benefits of regular pruning. Thx to ernst götsch!@!@
That's awesome you've learned about pioneer and nitrogen fixing trees from Ernst. The first Permaculture Guides with this info were published in 1978 and 1979 by the Permaculture founder Bill Mollison. The books are called Permaculture 1 and Permaculture 2.
@granvisio what whas new to me is the density ernst plants. In the line i did, trees are 10cm apart about 30species in total. fruits are asimina Diospyrus prunus crataegus and castanea And suport species Populus Salix Alnus Hippophae Mackia amurense Carangana Ulmus Idesia Liriodendron Betulus quercus Abies Laris Pinus Picea Pseudozuga Platanus Ficus Morus
@@swiss_arborist_barmetbaump3817 Thank you so much for sharing! For others reading your comment, can you mention your USDA hardiness zone - it may be useful for them.
what I don't understand is, is there anything that specifically makes the two styles incompatible? why can't a Syntropic kind of planting cycle be used to develop a Permaculture site?
I'm sorry that this is your impression from the video, but I haven't stated that the two are incompatible. In fact I encouraged to rely on permaculture strategies in combination with syntropic farming especially in Mediterranean and arid climates, because good water management practices are so crucial in these climates. I have nothing against syntropic farming. It's a wonderful approach. I've just seen people missing out going straight for row plantation according to syntropic farming forgetting how they will get water to the site with the least amount of effort (in Permaculture you don't plant until all water systems are in place). In climates where it pours constantly this is not a big issue.
@@granvisio apologies if I seemed to imply that I thought they were incompatible, I was just curious of ways that the two methods might be combined to get even better results. Thank you for explaining more details, I think I better understand now
@@Kavukamari No apologies needed. These topics are complicated and it's difficult to relay all the information in a short video. That's why I am grateful for the comments and questions. If you have more, please don't hesitate to ask.
Thanks for the video! Awesome research and infos. But i would like to add that thoss differences are much more theoretical and historical than practical, at least for those in Brasil. Permaculture and syntropic farming are almost used as synonims; the term most widely used is "agrofloresta", something like agroflorest, and people usually take all of these factors in consideration. I've never seen someone say that only does syntropic farming or permaculture.
I know you stated that your definition of Syntropic Ag came from online research, and there is a lack of clear online info, so I understand you are trying to answer the question based on the info you best had available. However, I would hesitate trying to define it if you do not truly understand it. For instance, although Ernst bought and started his current property in the early 80’s, his work on Syntropic Ag began years before that, and originated in Europe, before moving to different climates. Secondly, Syntropics is not focused toward Tropical climates as you stated, in fact, Ernst’s farm is in Bahia, which is Sub-tropical. It’s a good question you wish to answer, but perhaps consulting someone who is as knowledgeable in Syntropics as you are in Permaculture would have been the better approach.
Totally agree, I think you would benefit a lot consulting syntropic practitioners in your region, and I can assure your are gonna love it as a key philosophy to truly complement all the beautifull permaculture insights, they come from the same observations and experiencies!
Most permaculture I see in my area focuses mainly on plants that don't produce or are good for the region and many have lots of land, money, and nurseries that use slaves that they like to call volunteers.
Hi there! Thank you for your comment. Here are some excellent free resources to get you started: 1. Oregon State University's Intro to Permaculture: workspace.oregonstate.edu/course/free-introduction-to-permaculture This free course covers the basics of permaculture and is a good starting point for beginners. Websites and Blogs 3. Permaculture Research Institute: www.permaculturenews.org/ Offers a wealth of articles, videos, and resources on various permaculture topics. 4. Permies.com: A community-driven site with forums, articles, and videos on permaculture and sustainable living. 5. Permaculture Principles: permacultureprinciples.com/ Offers free downloadable guides and resources on permaculture design principles. If you would like a personalized guide, consider joining our paid membership program at join.granvisio.com/. With this membership, you'll gain exclusive access to our Discord community, where you can get your questions answered daily. Prices start at €10 a month. Additionally, in Premium tier you can benefit from webinars and Q&A sessions that dive deep into permaculture design methods and practical tips. This interactive environment will empower you with the knowledge and resources needed to successfully apply permaculture to your area. Let me know if you have any questions!
Syntropic farming is a recipe for planting forests, Permaculture is a way of life. Syntropic farming is just another tool (an excellent tool for planting food forests) in the Permaculture wardrobe.
@@normanvasquez5968 To summarise Syntropic farming as a “recipe for planting forests” is very far from the truth. I can see how it might be viewed like that from an outside and uninformed position, but nothing in the philosophy of Syntropics talks about it beings aimed towards growing forests.
@@SpibsTV Enlighten me please, because certainly all I have done is watch some RUclips videos and fast-read the Abundance Agroforestry guidebook made for Haiti. What I am missing?
@@normanvasquez5968 I will certainly do my best to shed a little more light on the subject, but there are people that could do it far more justice than me. Although Syntropics can certainly result in growing forests, and in a lot of cases that will be a product of the practice, it is more focused towards returning humans to their function within the ecosystem, and as a result, use practices that align with the structure of nature to benefit not just ourselves but the macro organism that is earth as a whole. If you watch any of the content where Ernst Gotsch, the founder of Syntropics, talks about it, you might see that calling it “a recipe for planting forests” is doing it a disservice. Hope this helps
Great information! I've been dying to build a permaculture garden...thought this fall would be the start of it. Honestly tho, your comment about permaculture involving social justice & now I'm totally turned off. Seriously? I hope I'm missing here.
I realize that the term social justice is political, but Permaculture being a holistic approach includes principles that extend beyond agriculture and land use to encompass social and economic systems as well. Permaculture's ideas challenge the way we currently organize society and the economy. If we learn from nature, we should rethink our economic and social systems to fit within natural systems, making everything more resilient. By understanding how nature works, we can change how people interact and organize to be more adaptable, fair, and beneficial for everyone. I believe permaculture intersects with social justice with its core ethics, especially, people care and fair share. People Care ethic emphasizes the importance of looking after people, promoting well-being, and ensuring that everyone has access to resources necessary for a good quality of life. Fair Share focuses on the fair distribution of resources and the idea that surplus should be returned to the system to support Earth Care and People Care. This includes sharing knowledge, resources, and opportunities to ensure equity and justice.
It's unfortunate that you let politics get in the way of something like this. I was a lifelong conservative voter who also happens to be environmentally conscious and would get grief from other conservatives for using the word sustainable in discussion. Absolutely ridiculous BS, and if people don't wake up and see the actual message behind the politicized words, this world is only going to continue to fall apart. And the only people this crap benefits are those who gain financially or politically from the intentional division being sown.
You're trying to compare 2 concepts fundamentally different. Sintropic farming is a specialisation of agroforestry, Permaculture is an open platform for sustainability. They are in different conceptual layer. Permaculture can integrate the sintropic module since they rely both on biomimicry and carbon. The picture of permaculture enunciated here is static although permaculture is not attached to a simple set of technique and is evolving over time. Permaculture us not a technique, it's an open platform. Personally I have integrated sintropic technique in my permaculture project to complement the set of features.@Anovafloresta
So if I have one square meter I should plant 20% Emergent 40% Canopy 60% Medium 80% Low 15%(I'm being kind) Groundcover That is 215% This is awesome Whoever said that they don't make new land is wrong We can make new square meters, and I'm assuming this applies for square feet of land as well, so long as we are really really bad at basic math.
Please site your source. It could be that: You made a mistake You overlooked something or... Some ignorant idiot is actually promoting a nonsensical fantasy to well meaning people
Hi there! Thank you for the comment and for being kind :) I should have done a better job presenting this chart. According to this guide (terrasintropica.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Syntropic_Farming_Wikifarmer_April_2022.pdf) and other syntropic forest guides, the numbers I gave in the video are correct. The way to interpret them is different. You take into consideration a three-dimensional space, and not only horizontal space but also vertical. So, you have a row of trees, and you stand in the middle, for example, and look up in the sky seeing already mature species and you see how much space they’ve taken. I hope this helps!
The percentage spaces mentioned are not exclusive to each category of plants, the categories overlap each other, since their canopy occupy different levels of space vertically.
@@granvisio I looked up your source. It is nonsense. 1) If I want to follow this method how do I calculate how to fill 100%(which is impossible) of a given volume with plants when I need to somehow more than double that volume for this work? 2) If we are considering a 3 dimensional space(cuz that's the world we live in) then shouldn't we be taking into account row spacing? A typical corn field has rows so tight that the leaves of one plant are touching the leaves of all around them? If that is the goal then a typical corn field is the best solution. Terrasintropica looks to be doing a fine job to me but...not at math. They need to rework the explanation of their system. I promise you that no one has ever planted 220% of any given space either in 2 or 3D.
Sure thing! Thanks for your comment. Both systems can be applied at the same time and people do it successfully. I was warning against relying just on syntropic farming in climates other than tropical or subtropical. I think people would really struggle in a desert, for a example, without applying permaculture strategies suited to a desert.
Syntropic agroforestry is permaculture. Is a pratical/efficient/fast way to create a productive forest and still grow something in the meantime... in a attemp to do it comercially... it can be seen as one more tool, a technic, a way to do permaculture, like holistic grazing. A conventional orchard (even " industrial") also can be consider permaculture...because its "permament". There s no absolute requirements nor absolute forbides...one can use sintetic fertilizers, and even herbicides and other cides... can till, no till... can use swales and ponds, or not. Guilds, no guilds. Pionneers, or not. There s no fix way to do permaculture. Its very difficult to say something is, or is not, permaculture. Bill mollison said: "its creating a nice place to live"....It can be many many things. What you defined as permaculture is just what we see "typicaly" by the self called permaculturists. Usually aply to small homesteads, for families or small communities. But...suposely one can do permaculture in a balcony, in pots! This is a great thing, its very plastic and adaptable. and also a curse...because if anything can be permaculture...maybe its nothing really! Thats why people are fighting over labels. The brand wars.
Thank you for sharing your perspective. You’re right that permaculture is adaptable and there’s no single, rigid way to implement it. However, permaculture is guided by core ethics and design principles that help define what qualifies as permaculture practice. The fundamental ethics of permaculture-care for the earth, care for people, and fair share-inform the design principles and choices within a permaculture system. These principles encourage practices that enhance ecological health and sustainability. While permaculture is flexible in its application, anything that significantly contradicts these ethics or principles, such as extensive use of synthetic fertilizers, herbicides, or practices that cause long-term environmental harm, falls outside the scope of what is considered true permaculture. Permaculture avoids synthetic inputs and extensive tilling because they can undermine soil health and biodiversity, which are crucial for creating resilient and sustainable systems. That said, minimal and strategic tilling can sometimes be justified, particularly in the early stages of establishing a permaculture site. In essence, permaculture is about working with nature, making informed and ethical choices, and designing systems that are regenerative and self-sustaining. It’s a balance of flexibility and adherence to its guiding principles, ensuring that all practices support the long-term health and resilience of the environment.
@@granvisio where is the permaculture ethics of a few plants in pots in a balcony? Swales (and ponds) badly done can damage the land. As can introducing invasive species...and let it go uncontroled, like happens often in permaculture sites. This and other examples can be as badly some "conventional" pratices. Even defining what is "earth care" can become an endless philosofical discussion... From my house i see a big agriculture valley, farmed for about 8 centuries, that was subject to all kinds of agriculture (and non agro) pratices, intensive ones, and chemical ones...the parts that are abandon for 15 years become a forest! Would we call it a case of centuries old good "earth care"? When you say : "the true" permaculture...already means theres no definition. If it was clear this kind of religious language would be unnecessary. Althou i consider myself a permaculturist im out of business so i do not care about labels and brand wars. Its just funny. And i liked your video.
First, I am glad you enjoyed the video and I am happy to respond to your comment and shed more light. Regarding the ethics of a few plants in pots on a balcony: Permaculture ethics-care for the earth, care for people, and fair share-can be applied at any scale. A small balcony garden might seem insignificant, but it embodies the principles of using available resources wisely, reducing food miles, and promoting biodiversity, even if on a small scale. It’s about the mindset and intention behind the actions. It's true that poorly implemented swales, ponds, or the introduction of invasive species can cause harm. These mistakes are often due to a lack of proper planning, knowledge, or experience, rather than an inherent flaw in permaculture principles or ethics. Just as in conventional agriculture, the outcome depends heavily on the skill and knowledge of the practitioner. The aim in permaculture is to continuously learn and adapt to prevent such issues, prioritizing ecosystem health. Defining "earth care" can indeed be complex and nuanced. While it can lead to philosophical discussions, the core idea is to foster practices that support long-term ecological balance and health. The fact that abandoned agricultural land can revert to forest illustrates nature's resilience and the potential for recovery, but it doesn't necessarily equate to proactive "earth care" as advocated in permaculture, which guides people to work harmoniously with nature from the outset. When I refer to "true" permaculture, I mean practices that align closely with its core ethics and design principles. While permaculture is flexible and adaptable, its foundation lies in these principles and it is my duty as certified Permaculture Designer to teach about them. So I used the term "true permaculture" to differentiate practices that genuinely seek to embody these principles from those that might misuse the label for practices that do not align with permaculture's ethos. Permaculture is framework for sustainable living and agriculture that aims to foster resilience and ecological health. It’s understandable that people have different interpretations and applications, but the core principles remain a valuable guide. Thank you for engaging in this conversation.
I see a major weakness in designing with the more narrow syntropic farming system as described here. If you design and implement a system that fails to incorporate ALL of the principles of Permaculture, you will inevitabily have major gaps in that design.
lol these permaculture definitions make it sound like a government - ism . silly . how humans behave among one another doesn't really have anything to do with methods of cultivating plants, but ok whatever. i see what various people mean by stating our language needs to evolve...maybe go back to greek where we can coin our own terms again.
I am Brazilian and currently practicing Agroforestry, also known as Syntropic Farming. I am also a certified permaculture designer. The key to syntropic agroforestry lies in the role humans play in the system, particularly through regular pruning and covering the ground with the material. This practice generates a significant pulse for the system, which accelerates regeneration by maximizing photosynthesis.
Often, people unfamiliar with syntropic methods misunderstand its purpose and view it as a competitor to permaculture. However, the reality is different. Permaculture is a collection of techniques that address various aspects of human living, drawing from indigenous and traditional knowledge. In contrast, agroforestry is focused on restoring and creating agroecosystems. The two approaches complement each other well.
You're viewing syntropic farming as a static recipe, but that’s simply not true. There are countless experiences and adaptations in different climates, scales, focus, etc. In fact, even within permaculture’s food forest strategy, you can apply syntropic techniques such as pruning, stratification, ground mulching, succession, and more. These methods are not exclusive to syntropic farming; they can enhance and complement permaculture practices as well.
Hi Filip! Thank you for the comment and sharing your experience. My intention wasn't to portray syntropic farming as a competitor to permaculture. In fact, I encouraged to combine the two systems especially if people live outside the tropics. I view Permaculture's water management strategies as unbeatable very first step to developing a site. This requires people to be super patient as they are keen to plant the trees straight away. While establishing syntropic food forest alone could work on sites where water is scarce, it sometimes may require so much more effort to keep the plants alive or bring the water in a complicated and costly way. Permaculture could fix these issues right from the beginning. That's why you don't see syntropic farming cases in deserts, but you see permaculture food forests in deserts. It doesn't mean syntropic farming is worse than Permaculture. I said both are wonderful systems, restoring the soil's health, increasing biodiversity and so much more. But we have to be realistic on sites where the conditions are harsh.
Many aspects of Permaculture could be used in Syntropic Farming. Also, in Syntropic Farming, almost all plants from all layers are planted at the same time, since many plants from higher layers grow slowly (like the biggest trees). The heavy pruning is used to not just add organic matter on the soil but to have more light going to the lower plants, increasing their growth. Planning on this system is pretty hard since you need to have a overall vision on what the system will be in like 10 to 20 years from the first seed planted, even tough you could plant many more types of crops before that time.
Syntropic farming also could use machines to do the heavy work, but not many conventional machines unfortunately. And even though it is used as a regenerative farming, it have a big potential to large scale production.
Thanks for your input! That's why it's important to consult with an expert in this field. It's not that easy unless people have lots of time to experiment and money.
For an autonomous small grower like me I find 2 interesting things in Syntropic that I can apply in my own small Orchard-veggies garden. Plant densification and more pruning in order to improve my soil more rapidly and limit or even eliminate the necessity to import biomass. Be able to produce his own biomasse is a big advantage in an era where we will see more and more ressource shortages. For the rest I do not like the fact that we let the successions take place to harvest only what is available in the thriving stage.
I was literally wondering this question this week and then BAM! I see your video. Perfect!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks so much for watching!
I am from the western ghats of India and have been generally trying to understand how to proceed on a farm land I recently bought with an existing forest on it. While permaculture is quite spoken about around me, not much is happening about Syntropic farming. Thanks for the effort in presenting the fundamental approach of both.
Thank you for the comment and best of luck with your land development!
The nice thing about the syntropic mindset is it’s geared towards providing income right from day 30 through year 30.
Permaculture seems so much further reaching than syntropic farming, that syntropic farming almost feels like it is one more tool to be added to permaculture's toolkit. But the fact that syntropic farming is more specific in its purpose means that it may be more accessible to farmers who are completely new to the concepts both convey. Permaculture has so many aspects to it that it's possible a newcomer may become dissuaded from it entirely. A tldr may be: syntropic farming is a design technique while permaculture is design philosophy.
Thanks for watching the video and sharing your thoughts!
Great explanation!
I agree, permaculture is very overwhelming to those who are not predisposed to it. Syntropic agriculture is agriculture and therefore is much easier to teach to regular farmers. I think especially in tropical climates it has a much better chance of reaching a wider audience and providing more impact simply because as agriculture it focuses on providing income for the farmer.
Well said
According to a permaculture coach on yt… he views permaculture as an umbrella category… food forests, regenerative and more are essentially permaculture… like succulents are an umbrella category, but not all succulents are cacti … but all cacti are succulents
yes to me permaculture is a way of designing syntropic farm systems. Great video!
I like drawing from both teachings to see what fits my needs. The thing I do worry about is when advocates of either practice focus so much on what works quickly that they encourage potential growers to use what I consider 'future invasives'. While I also want to have a food forest type set up, it can be hard when general advice is adamant about certain fast growing plants. I highly recommend anyone interested to reach out to your local plant experts as well to see what can be incorporated with your project! 🌳😀
Thanks for sharing the advice!
I think there is a misunderstanding about syntropic agriculture mainly because its a whole different paradigm (wich its incredible important for permaculture) about how we understand our role and function as humans. In my experience every permaculture place that integrates syntropic principles to their food production system never goes back to the other ways they were doing it, not only the food forest and the orchard (that now can go toghether so the zonning of that changes), so there are completely complementary, and an incredible knowledge that makes opens more the experience to regenerate a place. Maybe the experience of Permadynamics in New Zealand can show better this. Cheers
There is myth that syntropic famirng its only for tropical climates because it was firstly developed in Brazil, but Ernst comes from Swizterland and talks a lot about how he took the knowledge that his parents teach him doing agroforestry systems wich was the way to do agricuture in those places before the green revolution, the second thing is that the main knowledge about food forests comes from the developments in the UK and are in temperate climate. Syntropic agriculture is a set of principles that can be used to create a food forest, a ecological restoration project, a comercial agricultural enterprice, and works in every climate. Please look out for more experiences from mediterranean and temperate climate if you want to know how it works there. The last thing is that the planting in lines its maynly because in the near future the intensive management of the places makes it more easy, but you can choose to plant in other ways, actually many small projects start with "abundance nests". I think that we should stop doing this comparinsons of things that are from the same side of the coin, permaculture is a vision with a set of principles that guide design of human habitats and syntropic agricultures is a practice that takes the principles and process that nature does to creat healthy ecosystems, when we combine both we have and incredible potential and actually as I mentioned in the comment before all the permaculture principles apply to syntropic agriculture in a very elegant and simple way. A best way to look it is that you have an agricutural systema that connects ecosytem process with human presence, witch to my understanding is exactly what permaculture wants to achieve and its the way many indiginous cultures developed.
Thank for watching and sharing your view!
Thanks for all the info. Ernst Gotsch publications on adopting syntropic farming to other climates seem to missing or unavailable. If you have access to resources guiding people on how to apply this system in other climates than tropical, feel free to share these resources here. I am sure people reading the comments will find it invaluable. Thanks for your input!
You say that in syntropic farming you plant in steps but according to my understanding, plants are planted all at the same time the first year. So while the trees are still small and growing you can harvest small plants and with time the small plants are disappearing because trees are making more and more shade and use more and more soil ressources. We then end up with a mature forest where you can harvest wood, fruits or nuts. Syntropic is not good if you want to produce vegetables for many years. Syntropic seems to me a good option if your end goal is to produce a forest.
I agree with you. From what I read about syntropic farming, plants are chosen and planted based on their role in the ecosystem and their stage in the succession process. Early successional species, which are fast-growing and short-lived, are planted first. These plants prepare the soil and create conditions for the next stage of plants, which might be slower-growing but longer-lived. As trees and larger plants grow, they begin to create more shade and compete for soil nutrients and water.
I guess, the choice of syntropic agriculture depends on specific goals. If the primary objective is long-term vegetable production, adjustments in design and management are necessary. If the goal is to establish a forest system with secondary vegetable yields, syntropic agriculture might be well-suited.
Vegetable based syntropic farms just have biomass plants in rows (Eucalyptus and banana for example) wood would be chipped for use of the vegetables, or rotation with crops like cassava
So yes you can produce vegetables for many years you can watch many documentaries of farms that function exactly as that
Did you really just study Agroforestry on the internet 😮 I am impressed you did an excellent job in gathering data! do you also speak Portuguese…?
Anyway we’ll done
Nice,
Strata is light requirement rather than space .
Very nice video!
That makes sense! Thanks for pointing it out! - We've came to this conclusion down in the comments about the math problem 😆
I think Syntropic farming is better for making profit and can compete with conventional chemical farming. Permaculture seems to be an off-grid community based self sufficient farming .
Thanks for watching and sharing your views, but I think characterizing Permaculture solely as off-grid community-based self-sufficient farming is an oversimplification.
@@granvisiointeresting, I am entering in to it all. Residential lot, going to swale and contour the back yard for permaculture personal grocery row garden/ food forest like say “David the good” and then out front implement a syntropic style with bananas, moringa, and sable palm trees, with saw palmettos potted in areas as well. Then maybe some understory style crops for experimentation with the palms and bananas and any pests the present to the weaker understory crops. Not mention any vining type plants even tomatoes for me would be incorporated as well maybe Seminole pumpkins. Anyways sorry for the nonsense just wanted your professional advice on if the front yard sound syntropic. Just enjoy learning from you all and it’s helping me so much with out even breaking any ground yet!! Thank you 🤙
@@granvisioferal foraging has me entertained in the idea of mandating some native salads and using in the ground cover to seed out good head varieties that may even grow in summer. Basically I am modern and have the ability to play primitive with no actual risk 😅so any suggestions on experimentation I’d love! I’ll leave it be for a few days and check back
@D.I.Y.G Hi! Okay your question is about the feedback on your plan of syntropic food forest. I am not an expert in syntropic farming, but it seems to me your front yard plan does sound syntropic. Also excellent choices of banana and moringa for fast growth and biomass production. Moringa is also highly nutritious. Sable Palm Trees and Saw Palmettos will add to the diversity and structure of your system.
For understory crops, consider shade-tolerant crops like ginger, turmeric, and certain leafy greens that thrive under the canopy. Seminole pumpkins and tomatoes can be excellent additions. Ensure they have enough support and sunlight, especially in a densely planted area. Incorporate plants known to repel pests (e.g., marigolds, garlic) and attract beneficial insects (e.g., dill, fennel). Start with small areas, monitor the system, and be ready to make adjustments based on what you learn.
Overall, I think your approach is thoughtful and well-planned. For a more thorough advice on syntropic farming, consult with an expert! Good luck!
@D.I.Y.G Hi! Great to hear about your projects! I have no experience in syntropic farming so I will offer you some permaculture guidance.
1. Keep experimenting that’s a good way to learn what will work in your local conditions. But you can also research and plant native edible plants whether it’s greens, herbs, or edible flowers.
2. Don’t worry about spacing, the more the merrier. You don’t want to expose any soil, so the weeds start to pop up!
3. If you have more space to fill besides edible plants, ground cover plants like clover or creeping thyme will help retain moisture, suppress weeds, and provide a habitat for beneficial insects.
4. To maximize nutrient use, pair deep-rooted plants with shallow-rooted ones.
5. Experiment with techniques to extend the plants growing season, like using shade cloths or mulching to protect plants from extreme heat, allowing them to grow even in the summer.
6. Focus on improving soil health through composting and mulching without digging the soil.
7. Experiment with different types of beds. If your plants struggle with heat, use sunken beds. If you have problem with drainage, use raised beds but well mulched. Check out circle gardens (2 feet deep holes filled with mulch and plant around them) where you can grow so many species with minimal work - as you keep throwing compost and irrigate only in one spot.
8. Keep a journal of your experiments, noting what works and what doesn’t, to refine your approach over time.
For more tips, I invite you to check out our membership offer at join.granvisio.com
Thank you! So happy I found your channel! This video is gold for me!
I'm glad you enjoyed it! Thank you for the comment!
Amazing video! This is so helpful, well explained, and interesting about syntropic farming and permaculture. Videos like this make me hopeful and excited. Thank you!
Thanks so much for the comment. Appreciate it!
@@granvisio Thank you for the quality educational and inspirational content!
I'm thinking also about the Miyawaki method. It would be interesting to see Miyawaki, syntropic, and permaculture all compared and contrasted, or to see all three applied or combined on one site. Thank you again for the information and food for thought!
Thanks, I've been looking for good answers to this question. I think for sure the techniques compliment each other, and are somehow two pieces of a puzzle about self sustainability. Love your videos, thanks for sharing your knowledge and good vibes!
Thanks so much for the comment! Glad you enjoyed the video!
Great information. it seems that syntropic ag, although well intentioned, is really missing the big picture of how humans will interaction with these systems long-term and how they fit around a community. Permaculture always accounts for cause and effect, in turn producing more efficient and multifaceted systems that serve the community not just the farmer. Thanks again for the great information you're sharing
Yep! Permaculture is so special for these reasons. We are really blessed for having access to this knowledge. Glad you enjoyed the video!
In my experience permaculture mostly ignores the very real need for farmers to have income, most permaculture enthusiasts don’t live off their farm income. Farm provided income is one of the key points of syntropic Agriculture.
@@ottoflouer1750 Although many good things were outlined about Syntropics in this video, you have to keep in mind she only had access to partial online info. In fact, a large part of Syntropics is to connect humans with their role within the ecosystem since we have lost touch with that in our modern society and agricultural practices. It goes quite in depth with this the further you study it. So unfortunately, Syntropic Ag was not able to be completely and correctly represented in this explanation
Syntropic agriculture is a technique, whereas permaculture is a wholistic system that can incorporate many techniques to suit the specific local conditions of climate and micro-climate, soil conditions, topography, water cycles and waterways, and also integrating human settlements into the landscape.
Excellent comparison between the 2 systems. Made me subscribe to your channel right away.
Thank you Michael! Glad you enjoyed the video!
thank you, may god bless you for what you're doing for humanity
Thanks for watching!
Very informative, Thank you
Thank you Carrie for watching and for leaving the comment. I appreciate your time!
very intelligent and informative comprison. I think there is a general lack of information on comparing both because of language zones. I think the best and most site approprite of both can be integrated for great results. You make very good points about choosing which to use. My criticism of both is a lack of sufficient concern for invertebrate and avian biodiversity conservation through native planting in the culture of many practitioners. I wish they would both push native plants harder especially as support plants. In my country there is blindness. why plnt invive lupins when we have hundreds of native N fixers as an example. It requires the courage and imagintion to raise natives for these roles and use them in plantings reflecting local ecosystems. its really not that hard. truth to place is also a point made by gotsch that is most often just forgotten. People calling creating a lush forest in a desert syntropic seems to violate this sensibility.
Hello I thank you very much for these valuable tips, I would love to start with a permaculture project on my own, although the yard where to start is relatively small (I am highly excited to start), which could be the first active steps to start this project?
Hi there! Thank you for your comment. Here are some excellent free resources to get you started:
1. Oregon State University's Intro to Permaculture: workspace.oregonstate.edu/course/free-introduction-to-permaculture
This free course covers the basics of permaculture and is a good starting point for beginners.
Websites and Blogs
3. Permaculture Research Institute: www.permaculturenews.org/
Offers a wealth of articles, videos, and resources on various permaculture topics.
4. Permies.com: A community-driven site with forums, articles, and videos on permaculture and sustainable living.
5. Permaculture Principles: permacultureprinciples.com/ Offers free downloadable guides and resources on permaculture design principles.
If you would like personalized guide, consider joining our paid membership program at join.granvisio.com/.
With this membership, you'll gain exclusive access to our Discord community, where you can get your questions answered daily. Prices start at €10 a month. Additionally, in Premium tier you can benefit from webinars and Q&A sessions that dive deep into permaculture design methods and practical tips. This interactive environment will empower you with the knowledge and resources needed to successfully apply permaculture to your area. Let me know if you have any questions!
Can you do a comparison with Miyawaki method?
According to my comprehension, in the Miyawaki method you plant indigenous plants and trees to create a diversified forest while in syntropic it is more farming where you plant edible plants that you will harvest for years until it becomes an edible forest with only big trees.
@@denisdufresne5338 thank you
For both things a lot of study and work. We are begining both in misiones - argentina and you forget the bio-dinamic
Syntropic sometimes tiles the ground, but its just the first stage.
Yep and it's totally okay. In Permaculture people sometimes till the ground too or use Yeomans plow, which is non-invasive kind of ploughing, but the most important thing is in later stages of site development the rich, fluffy tops soil is developed. I wish the conventional farmers will wake up one day and see what they are missing out.
@@granvisio Its because both are labor intensive in comparison to monoculture. But permaculture and syntropic (agriforestation) are the future.
thank you
You're welcome! Thanks for watching!
Comparing permaculture to syntropic farming is like comparing an industrial design process to a certain type of car. Different levels that are not comparable at all.
Permaculture is an ethical design system (and not a gardening technique), and a permaculture system might according to the specific design project include syntropic agroforestry if this is a suitable element or it might not, when syntropic farming is not suitable for the project.
To help decide whether you might want to implement a certain element in your system - to find out if your conditions are suitable - you can apply a permaculture design process.
I would be really happy if at least pc designers could understand and communicate the difference between a design system and a garden element, and maybe then one day no-one would say "I made a permaculture garden" when they installed a herb spiral.
beAuTiFuL 💜
greetings from a permaculture practitioner from Croatia, as far as I can see this technique is interesting, but only 1 of many techniques that can be fully or partially used in permaculture, and only in its part that deals with growing food, it is not for me, but it may be interesting for some people , thank you for the video
I'm in Italy. So, hello neighbor! This is exactly what I was trying to convey. Glad you liked the video. Good luck with your permaculture projects :)
@@granvisio hello neighbor 🙂
I wish i know ten jears ago. Do not plant tree alone but in groups with pioner trees and nitrogen fixing trees. This was the kickstart for my forest garden and this needs to be on any permaculture book on the first page. Also of the benefits of regular pruning. Thx to ernst götsch!@!@
That's awesome you've learned about pioneer and nitrogen fixing trees from Ernst. The first Permaculture Guides with this info were published in 1978 and 1979 by the Permaculture founder Bill Mollison. The books are called Permaculture 1 and Permaculture 2.
@granvisio what whas new to me is the density ernst plants. In the line i did, trees are 10cm apart about 30species in total. fruits are asimina Diospyrus prunus crataegus and castanea
And suport species
Populus
Salix
Alnus
Hippophae
Mackia amurense
Carangana
Ulmus
Idesia
Liriodendron
Betulus
quercus
Abies
Laris
Pinus
Picea
Pseudozuga
Platanus
Ficus
Morus
@@swiss_arborist_barmetbaump3817 Thank you so much for sharing! For others reading your comment, can you mention your USDA hardiness zone - it may be useful for them.
@granvisio my hardines zone is around 5 to 6.
what I don't understand is, is there anything that specifically makes the two styles incompatible? why can't a Syntropic kind of planting cycle be used to develop a Permaculture site?
I'm sorry that this is your impression from the video, but I haven't stated that the two are incompatible. In fact I encouraged to rely on permaculture strategies in combination with syntropic farming especially in Mediterranean and arid climates, because good water management practices are so crucial in these climates. I have nothing against syntropic farming. It's a wonderful approach. I've just seen people missing out going straight for row plantation according to syntropic farming forgetting how they will get water to the site with the least amount of effort (in Permaculture you don't plant until all water systems are in place). In climates where it pours constantly this is not a big issue.
@@granvisio apologies if I seemed to imply that I thought they were incompatible, I was just curious of ways that the two methods might be combined to get even better results. Thank you for explaining more details, I think I better understand now
@@Kavukamari No apologies needed. These topics are complicated and it's difficult to relay all the information in a short video. That's why I am grateful for the comments and questions. If you have more, please don't hesitate to ask.
Thanks for the video! Awesome research and infos. But i would like to add that thoss differences are much more theoretical and historical than practical, at least for those in Brasil. Permaculture and syntropic farming are almost used as synonims; the term most widely used is "agrofloresta", something like agroflorest, and people usually take all of these factors in consideration. I've never seen someone say that only does syntropic farming or permaculture.
Thanks for the info!
I know you stated that your definition of Syntropic Ag came from online research, and there is a lack of clear online info, so I understand you are trying to answer the question based on the info you best had available.
However, I would hesitate trying to define it if you do not truly understand it.
For instance, although Ernst bought and started his current property in the early 80’s, his work on Syntropic Ag began years before that, and originated in Europe, before moving to different climates.
Secondly, Syntropics is not focused toward Tropical climates as you stated, in fact, Ernst’s farm is in Bahia, which is Sub-tropical.
It’s a good question you wish to answer, but perhaps consulting someone who is as knowledgeable in Syntropics as you are in Permaculture would have been the better approach.
Totally agree, I think you would benefit a lot consulting syntropic practitioners in your region, and I can assure your are gonna love it as a key philosophy to truly complement all the beautifull permaculture insights, they come from the same observations and experiencies!
Most permaculture I see in my area focuses mainly on plants that don't produce or are good for the region and many have lots of land, money, and nurseries that use slaves that they like to call volunteers.
what a good video!
Thank you for watching! Appreciate the comment!
@@granvisio hope it spreads cause It is a wonderful system
Permaculture Is more than farming. Its a lifestyle and design method.
It is indeed! Thank you for watching!
Hello ma'am I am from the western ghats in India and want to practice permaculture any input would be helpful
Hi there! Thank you for your comment. Here are some excellent free resources to get you started:
1. Oregon State University's Intro to Permaculture: workspace.oregonstate.edu/course/free-introduction-to-permaculture
This free course covers the basics of permaculture and is a good starting point for beginners.
Websites and Blogs
3. Permaculture Research Institute: www.permaculturenews.org/
Offers a wealth of articles, videos, and resources on various permaculture topics.
4. Permies.com: A community-driven site with forums, articles, and videos on permaculture and sustainable living.
5. Permaculture Principles: permacultureprinciples.com/ Offers free downloadable guides and resources on permaculture design principles.
If you would like a personalized guide, consider joining our paid membership program at join.granvisio.com/.
With this membership, you'll gain exclusive access to our Discord community, where you can get your questions answered daily. Prices start at €10 a month. Additionally, in Premium tier you can benefit from webinars and Q&A sessions that dive deep into permaculture design methods and practical tips. This interactive environment will empower you with the knowledge and resources needed to successfully apply permaculture to your area. Let me know if you have any questions!
Syntropic farming is a recipe for planting forests, Permaculture is a way of life. Syntropic farming is just another tool (an excellent tool for planting food forests) in the Permaculture wardrobe.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
@@normanvasquez5968 To summarise Syntropic farming as a “recipe for planting forests” is very far from the truth.
I can see how it might be viewed like that from an outside and uninformed position, but nothing in the philosophy of Syntropics talks about it beings aimed towards growing forests.
@@SpibsTV Enlighten me please, because certainly all I have done is watch some RUclips videos and fast-read the Abundance Agroforestry guidebook made for Haiti. What I am missing?
@@normanvasquez5968 I will certainly do my best to shed a little more light on the subject, but there are people that could do it far more justice than me.
Although Syntropics can certainly result in growing forests, and in a lot of cases that will be a product of the practice, it is more focused towards returning humans to their function within the ecosystem, and as a result, use practices that align with the structure of nature to benefit not just ourselves but the macro organism that is earth as a whole.
If you watch any of the content where Ernst Gotsch, the founder of Syntropics, talks about it, you might see that calling it “a recipe for planting forests” is doing it a disservice.
Hope this helps
Great information! I've been dying to build a permaculture garden...thought this fall would be the start of it. Honestly tho, your comment about permaculture involving social justice & now I'm totally turned off. Seriously? I hope I'm missing here.
I realize that the term social justice is political, but Permaculture being a holistic approach includes principles that extend beyond agriculture and land use to encompass social and economic systems as well. Permaculture's ideas challenge the way we currently organize society and the economy. If we learn from nature, we should rethink our economic and social systems to fit within natural systems, making everything more resilient. By understanding how nature works, we can change how people interact and organize to be more adaptable, fair, and beneficial for everyone.
I believe permaculture intersects with social justice with its core ethics, especially, people care and fair share. People Care ethic emphasizes the importance of looking after people, promoting well-being, and ensuring that everyone has access to resources necessary for a good quality of life. Fair Share focuses on the fair distribution of resources and the idea that surplus should be returned to the system to support Earth Care and People Care. This includes sharing knowledge, resources, and opportunities to ensure equity and justice.
It's unfortunate that you let politics get in the way of something like this.
I was a lifelong conservative voter who also happens to be environmentally conscious and would get grief from other conservatives for using the word sustainable in discussion.
Absolutely ridiculous BS, and if people don't wake up and see the actual message behind the politicized words, this world is only going to continue to fall apart.
And the only people this crap benefits are those who gain financially or politically from the intentional division being sown.
You're trying to compare 2 concepts fundamentally different. Sintropic farming is a specialisation of agroforestry, Permaculture is an open platform for sustainability. They are in different conceptual layer. Permaculture can integrate the sintropic module since they rely both on biomimicry and carbon. The picture of permaculture enunciated here is static although permaculture is not attached to a simple set of technique and is evolving over time. Permaculture us not a technique, it's an open platform. Personally I have integrated sintropic technique in my permaculture project to complement the set of features.@Anovafloresta
Thank you for sharing! Best of luck with your projects!
So if I have one square meter I should plant
20% Emergent
40% Canopy
60% Medium
80% Low
15%(I'm being kind) Groundcover
That is 215%
This is awesome
Whoever said that they don't make new land is wrong
We can make new square meters, and I'm assuming this applies for square feet of land as well, so long as we are really really bad at basic math.
Before one of you idiots responds
"but...3d man!"
100% of any volume is still 100% of that volume
Please site your source.
It could be that:
You made a mistake
You overlooked something or...
Some ignorant idiot is actually promoting a nonsensical fantasy to well meaning people
Hi there! Thank you for the comment and for being kind :) I should have done a better job presenting this chart. According to this guide (terrasintropica.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Syntropic_Farming_Wikifarmer_April_2022.pdf) and other syntropic forest guides, the numbers I gave in the video are correct. The way to interpret them is different. You take into consideration a three-dimensional space, and not only horizontal space but also vertical. So, you have a row of trees, and you stand in the middle, for example, and look up in the sky seeing already mature species and you see how much space they’ve taken. I hope this helps!
The percentage spaces mentioned are not exclusive to each category of plants, the categories overlap each other, since their canopy occupy different levels of space vertically.
@@granvisio I looked up your source. It is nonsense.
1) If I want to follow this method how do I calculate how to fill 100%(which is impossible) of a given volume with plants when I need to somehow more than double that volume for this work?
2) If we are considering a 3 dimensional space(cuz that's the world we live in) then shouldn't we be taking into account row spacing? A typical corn field has rows so tight that the leaves of one plant are touching the leaves of all around them? If that is the goal then a typical corn field is the best solution.
Terrasintropica looks to be doing a fine job to me but...not at math. They need to rework the explanation of their system. I promise you that no one has ever planted 220% of any given space either in 2 or 3D.
Why not do a permaculture project with a syntropic food forest? Both are completely complementary 😄👌🏽 don’t separate, just integrate 😁👍🏽
Sure thing! Thanks for your comment. Both systems can be applied at the same time and people do it successfully. I was warning against relying just on syntropic farming in climates other than tropical or subtropical. I think people would really struggle in a desert, for a example, without applying permaculture strategies suited to a desert.
Syntropic agroforestry is permaculture. Is a pratical/efficient/fast way to create a productive forest and still grow something in the meantime... in a attemp to do it comercially... it can be seen as one more tool, a technic, a way to do permaculture, like holistic grazing.
A conventional orchard (even " industrial") also can be consider permaculture...because its "permament".
There s no absolute requirements nor absolute forbides...one can use sintetic fertilizers, and even herbicides and other cides... can till, no till... can use swales and ponds, or not. Guilds, no guilds. Pionneers, or not.
There s no fix way to do permaculture. Its very difficult to say something is, or is not, permaculture.
Bill mollison said: "its creating a nice place to live"....It can be many many things.
What you defined as permaculture is just what we see "typicaly" by the self called permaculturists. Usually aply to small homesteads, for families or small communities. But...suposely one can do permaculture in a balcony, in pots!
This is a great thing, its very plastic and adaptable. and also a curse...because if anything can be permaculture...maybe its nothing really! Thats why people are fighting over labels. The brand wars.
Thank you for sharing your perspective. You’re right that permaculture is adaptable and there’s no single, rigid way to implement it. However, permaculture is guided by core ethics and design principles that help define what qualifies as permaculture practice.
The fundamental ethics of permaculture-care for the earth, care for people, and fair share-inform the design principles and choices within a permaculture system. These principles encourage practices that enhance ecological health and sustainability. While permaculture is flexible in its application, anything that significantly contradicts these ethics or principles, such as extensive use of synthetic fertilizers, herbicides, or practices that cause long-term environmental harm, falls outside the scope of what is considered true permaculture.
Permaculture avoids synthetic inputs and extensive tilling because they can undermine soil health and biodiversity, which are crucial for creating resilient and sustainable systems. That said, minimal and strategic tilling can sometimes be justified, particularly in the early stages of establishing a permaculture site.
In essence, permaculture is about working with nature, making informed and ethical choices, and designing systems that are regenerative and self-sustaining. It’s a balance of flexibility and adherence to its guiding principles, ensuring that all practices support the long-term health and resilience of the environment.
@@granvisio where is the permaculture ethics of a few plants in pots in a balcony?
Swales (and ponds) badly done can damage the land. As can introducing invasive species...and let it go uncontroled, like happens often in permaculture sites. This and other examples can be as badly some "conventional" pratices. Even defining what is "earth care" can become an endless philosofical discussion...
From my house i see a big agriculture valley, farmed for about 8 centuries, that was subject to all kinds of agriculture (and non agro) pratices, intensive ones, and chemical ones...the parts that are abandon for 15 years become a forest! Would we call it a case of centuries old good "earth care"?
When you say : "the true" permaculture...already means theres no definition. If it was clear this kind of religious language would be unnecessary.
Althou i consider myself a permaculturist im out of business so i do not care about labels and brand wars. Its just funny.
And i liked your video.
First, I am glad you enjoyed the video and I am happy to respond to your comment and shed more light. Regarding the ethics of a few plants in pots on a balcony: Permaculture ethics-care for the earth, care for people, and fair share-can be applied at any scale. A small balcony garden might seem insignificant, but it embodies the principles of using available resources wisely, reducing food miles, and promoting biodiversity, even if on a small scale. It’s about the mindset and intention behind the actions.
It's true that poorly implemented swales, ponds, or the introduction of invasive species can cause harm. These mistakes are often due to a lack of proper planning, knowledge, or experience, rather than an inherent flaw in permaculture principles or ethics. Just as in conventional agriculture, the outcome depends heavily on the skill and knowledge of the practitioner. The aim in permaculture is to continuously learn and adapt to prevent such issues, prioritizing ecosystem health.
Defining "earth care" can indeed be complex and nuanced. While it can lead to philosophical discussions, the core idea is to foster practices that support long-term ecological balance and health. The fact that abandoned agricultural land can revert to forest illustrates nature's resilience and the potential for recovery, but it doesn't necessarily equate to proactive "earth care" as advocated in permaculture, which guides people to work harmoniously with nature from the outset.
When I refer to "true" permaculture, I mean practices that align closely with its core ethics and design principles. While permaculture is flexible and adaptable, its foundation lies in these principles and it is my duty as certified Permaculture Designer to teach about them. So I used the term "true permaculture" to differentiate practices that genuinely seek to embody these principles from those that might misuse the label for practices that do not align with permaculture's ethos.
Permaculture is framework for sustainable living and agriculture that aims to foster resilience and ecological health. It’s understandable that people have different interpretations and applications, but the core principles remain a valuable guide.
Thank you for engaging in this conversation.
@@granvisio its nice to have an open discussion on a subject we love.
Your videos are very well done, i really like them. Tanks.
Thank you!
I see a major weakness in designing with the more narrow syntropic farming system as described here.
If you design and implement a system that fails to incorporate ALL of the principles of Permaculture, you will inevitabily have major gaps in that design.
Thanks for watching and sharing your view!
lol these permaculture definitions make it sound like a government - ism . silly . how humans behave among one another doesn't really have anything to do with methods of cultivating plants, but ok whatever. i see what various people mean by stating our language needs to evolve...maybe go back to greek where we can coin our own terms again.
thank you
You're welcome! Thank you for watching!