So I know it's a provocative title but to be clear I have a huge amount of respect for Joey and his team. Movies are a very powerful tool for our outreach to non-vegans so I just want to make sure we're making the best ones possible! What did you all think of Pignorant? Am I off base here?
I think the pig rescue thing was a good part of the ending, yes some viewers may have forgotten he rescued two piglets, but after seeing horrors other piglets face, It is good to reconnect the viewer back to those rescued babies.
I thought the mission to obtain the footage was the one of the best parts of the movie. That he is willing to die to expose this. If he just showed the footage without any of the months of planning & execution that went into getting that footage it wouldn't be as impactful. Now nobody can claim fake footage or oh, that's footage from another country!
That's a great point. Luckily I've never heard that excuse but I also don't go out and show footage to non-vegans (yet). But from what I understand that's a pretty common accusation from Carneys.
Brilliant documentary. It really drew me in on the 39 minute mark when Juliet Gallatley started explaining about the absolute despair and misery that factory farm pigs have to endure, so well explained. Then the documentary ramped up and got very intense as Joey and Dan went on a mission to get that footage.
I bought it (not rented it) for $4.99 on my Amazon Prime, and I don’t ever buy anything, especially with videos lol So that says a lot about how I feel about Joey’s activism’s style. I liked your take on the suggestions for it to be better. Given it was was Joey’s first film, it was definitely an awesome try for the first go around. Something you didn’t talk about was, what I got out of the video the most, which was about the hypocrisy with the RSVCP labeling on the packaging, which I thought was new point I’ve never thought about before, so I’m glad he touched on that, because everything else, I had already seen in other RUclips videos, including by Joey himself. But you did talk about the Red tractor, and the farmer “dealing” with the sick/injured pig (which was voted best farm), and I had forgotten about those scenes, so, your point about the continuity of the film stood out to me given the fact I forgot some things so easily. Thanks:)
Exposing the horrific cruelty of animals is essential, I could never be hypocritical of any video produced to bring attention to suffering and violent death of animals. I applaud and admire Joey Carbstrong for his important work,I can't imagine the vegan movement without him. Every ethical vegan should be speaking up for the animals, remaining silent does nothing to help the Animals !
I have no quibbles of any kind about this film. Storytelling can be done in more than one way and the way he chose worked well for me and others I know.
I saw the first 46 minutes of Pignorant and I have to say it was very hard for me to understand why these slaughter houses could do such evil acts on such innocent sentient animals. I admire Joey and his crew for taking the risks that they did and applaud them for giving information that I'm sure so many people are not aware of.
I donated to Joey and bought the film on Amazon as further support, but , as a vegan who already has enough trouble sleeping at night from thinking about the suffering of pigs and other animals, I couldn't bear to watch it. However, the film makers no doubt ( I hope) knew who their target audience was ---non-vegans. I hope they have made the film in a way that will get those people to watch it to the end once started and to get the film in the first place.
Same here. Although I don't lose sleep at night over thinking about farmed animals' suffering, I do think of them all the time everyday. And thinking of the ways of rebuttals to trolls as well as hoping to contribute anyway I can to animal rights.
I don't agree that getting slaughterhouse shut down should have been an important part of the story. Its the way Hollywood films work, giving a happy ending to the story. People leave feeling completed and removed, like the work has been done. Its great to celebrate success stories of animal rescue, The Gentle Barn, Animals Asia, Soi dog foundation, Asher House, Beagle Freedom Project etc etc. BUT, these animals are equivalent to lottery winners. And when you consider the pure humongous large scale of slaughter and animal suffering we cause, there's a need to keep people engaged and outraged, not comforted and completed. The one thing i tend to disagree with most vegans on is the focus on slaughter. Whilst this is horrendous, what is worse to me is that these animals are conceived in suffering, born into suffering and live their whole lives from the first breath to the last breath in extreme suffering. People point to nature "red in tooth and claw", as the Victorians termed, to make animals seem cold and heartless. But to me an African savannah where hunters and hunted coexist, is nowhere near as extreme as the suffering we cause. Having said that, there is a lot of focus on how pigs live their lives compared to the enormous potential for love and life that is denied them in their billions.
I think there’s a very good reason vegans are and should focus on the slaughter. One of the most common pretexts vegans hear is “look, I agree with you about the suffering aspect, that’s horrible. But if the animal was raised and killed humanely, then it is morally acceptable” or “I only source my animal products from local small farms that treat their animals well”. By focusing too much on the suffering, people start interpreting the issue to be strictly about the quality of an animal’s life before slaughter. They get the idea that the issue is with the way farming animals is currently done. They don’t get the idea that the issue is with the fact that we are farming animals at all and killing them. Of course, it is possible to raise animals who have lived good lives who are killed painlessly. But this is welfarism NOT veganism. Vegans reject the idea that animals are resources and commodities to be used by humans. We are seeking to abolish that mindset and practice. We don’t want better treated slaves, we want no slaves at all. If we water down the message and give people the idea that it’s okay to use and exploit animals for human-use, then animals are never going to be emancipated from their oppression, and try as we might, no matter how many people say they are against the suffering, in order to mass produce animal products, animals have to suffer somewhere along the way, and people will continue to find a comfort zone by saying they are okay with better treated animal slaves. By abolishing the mindset that animals are to be used by humans as resources, we are able to kill two birds with one stone, since this also tackles the issue of human-induced animal suffering just as it does the issue of killing animals at a fraction of their lifespan.
@@johnchesterfield9726 I'm not sure that advocates should focus only on abolition. Encouraging society to transition away from a normal, natural and preferred behaviour will take time, if ever. But on a rights-based stance, we should want animals to be treated well while they are being raised for food (ie by protecting their right not to be treated cruelly). By supporting those farmers that do raise animals well and encouraging consumers to support them if they are not yet willing to forego meat entirely, there can be genuine progress for the care and welfare of the animals while gradually transforming society's attitudes towards them.
“Giving farm animals more space, more natural environments, more companions does not right the fundamental wrong [treating them as resources], any more than giving lab animals more anesthesia or bigger, cleaner cages would right the fundamental wrong in their case.” - Tom Regan, The Case for Animal Rights “If you really care about animals, then stop trying to figure out how to exploit them ‘compassionately’. Just stop exploiting them.” - Gary Francione
I like that you make such videos, I don't think Joey will be offended by your criticism since you're also helping this video to spread, that's the most important thing
I agree with one of your criticisms, just not as much - I was also disappointed that getting the slaughterhouse to shut down wasn't emphasized more, as it could have opened up the dialog about the power of activism to stop these industries. But he did say it, used it as the ending - though I wish it hadn't been at the beginning of the credits. We should have been shown more details about that, the dramatic big payoff after all, it would've been a more emotionally satisfying ending; for inspiration and even more of a call to action. I liked that it wasn't linear and jumped around to different subjects and timelines, interspersed factual/educational stuff with emotional/dramatic. That was an artistic choice that I appreciated. My other critique - I wish he could've somehow snuck in why vegetarian is no better than meat eater, as the non vegan viewer still walks away with "ok, meat eating bad, I'll go vegetarian then" which is SO frustrating! And the exploitation/use/rights vs. welfare issue - that we shouldn't be using animals as a resource at all, full stop. That all animals deserve the basic rights to not be exploited, harmed, killed; seen in the same way we see dogs in the U.S. But there's only so much he could've fit into one film, and on the other hand - I love that the pigs get the attention and dedication they're due. Though I would've liked more issues to have been tackled, this was a film dedicated to pigs and I can't fault him for that. I agree with everything you liked about it, and the last thing we need is for this review to convince people to not watch it - veganism and the animals needs this film to be viewed by as many people as possible! Despite its minor flaws, it's a great film for what it tackles and how it's done. It's not perfect but so what? For a first time feature film director, Joey showed he has much talent in this area and I look forward to his directing in the future. I thought it was a searing, moving, powerful and ultimately inspiring film. He deserves major kudos for it. Even if vegans don't want to watch it (you can fast fwd. through the awful parts), PLEASE at least rent it to help boost it's reach around the world! Isn 't that what we want most - more people to go vegan? Getting more people to watch this will help do that. That's worth way more than $1.99!
“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.” Teddy Roosevelt This is the first thing that came to mind after watching this.
I love that poem! I agree with the sentiment and give Joey mad props for risking his life and making this - but I don't think constructive criticism hurts anyone. Our goal is animal liberation and storytelling is an important avenue for changing culture.
Wow!! I started this video at it being 15 views, and then it jumped to 125 views!! I love it! It's so good to people who care about animals getting exposure. I also love this thing that I haven't really noticed till now. When you Natalie was kinda not so much, but kinda starting out as the juggling vegan. Your videos feel so different now. I can't quite picture on it, but it's cool to see. I also agree with most of what you were saying. I would just like to add that Joey could have easily started off the with there is no humane slaughter, and here is why, and the could have concluded, as you can see slaughter is not ethical for anyone. Not for humans involved, or the animals. Anyway good job Natalie!! It's been a while since I left a comment. I know this one is a long one. I love your videos though. You are a very smart individual. We are very lucky to have you on our side. 🫶🏻
Vegan for 10 years- I went vegan because it became clear to me how horrific these images would be and how my heart couldn’t ever bear to witness it. I could never watch these documentaries but they need to exist - expose this fucking monstrous cruelty
I agree it's not perfect but Joey himself admitted afterwards that he has a new found respect for film makers as he found it all incredibly hard work. Bear in mind that he isn't professionally trained as a film maker, I think he's done a good job and will only get better if he produces more. Ultimately, he's got something onto a mainstream service provider, which, we as vegans can all share, so it will help. Yes, it could have been better, but, maybe only with some professional guidance, which would have delayed the release, cost more etc. It's a tough one, I find many vegan videos don't have a great message or way of messaging (often I find them too direct or contrived) so I tend to be very picky about what I share, but I also appreciate how hard it is to get into the psychology of what works and what turns non-vegans away so I'm also grateful for their work. I guess there's no single way to convince people and everyone working in different ways, it all helps. Keep up the great work Natalie.
that's a fair enough point I guess, but at the same time should that be a storytelling masterpiece to entertain it could've opened eyes to even more carnists 🤷♂
Thanks for commenting! To be clear, I never said I didn't find it entertaining, just that the storytelling could have been better. Stories are incredibly important and have been used throughout history to change hearts and minds. When we tell better stories, we connect with more people and have more power to change the world. This power should not be underestimated.
@@Natalie.FultonJFC, it’s a documentary, not some made-up fake movie. Are you ok? You don’t like it? Then, go make your own movie or whatever. What an absolute waste of time and space you’ve created, mam. 🤦🏻
@@mattsapero1896its a documentary not just storytelling it's showing factual abuse of animals for an unnecessary purpose for profit why would he need to tell a better story that makes no sense and not the point of the documentary
I actually think that the disjointed timeline was good because it meant that the sometimes hard to watch negatives of pig farming and slaughter were not continuous.
My main issue is always that these types of things always seem like welfare content. Like "Gas chambers are the problem!" when really killing in any way is the problem.
Joey is very clear there is no humane way to kill an animal. Am I missing something? I’m already vegan so while I support Joey, I don’t want to watch it and subject myself to constant trauma.
No... that's not the right way to look at it ... People who are disconnected from reality need to see what's happening.. no amount of lecturing can help.. what Joey did was really commendable...
No, the welfare argument is just the entry point here to the main argument of animal rights. You have to meet the viewers where they're at to keep them listening, and then make a compelling case for the main argument.
@@claytheist6736 thing is, please at least rent it just so it can get more views from non vegans and spread to more people! And as Natalie said, it's not constant trauma at all, there are a few parts that are awful to watch but you can fast forward, most of it is not that.
Thank you so much for this video! You pointed out all the amazing and best parts of Pignorant, whilst gently and articulately explaining why you felt the way you did. I REALLY agree with every single point, and am so thankful for your honesty. Thank you for this! 👏🏻
I disagree. I thought the structure of the documentary was surprisingly good. I was fearing a half-assed copy of Cowspiracy, and, like you say, Joey's RUclips stuff is often a bit emotionally charged, so had fairly low expectations. However, the structure felt refreshing and unique to me. It made sense and I didn't get lost... and like you said, Joey kept his cool!
Joey is a HERO and deserves high praise. Showing how dangerous it was to get the footage was awesome storytelling because it drew you in on the edge of your seat!!! Then you have MORE empathy and compassion too for the real victims, the poor PIGS!!!!
Seems pedantic but I really appreciate discussing these kinds of documentary in terms of being a good documentary. I've been engaging in art and its criticism for a while longer than I've been really engaged with veganism (and ethics in general) and while I don't really care about whether this kind of documentary is "artistically valid" or something people are emotional creatures. Quite often you can theoretically understand that something is bad but until it hits emotionally people tend not to act on it (and then try to argue backwards that their view is still rational). In a lot of ways I don't think people will accept an argument until it works emotionally for them. Sometimes the theory can get you there, but art often is the way to help you emotionally understand.
and to me it was done artistically and was emotional, and I've been in the arts my whole life, love great filmmaking and worked in the film industry so I'm extra discerning too.
@homie3461oh yes it talked about their intelligence a lot, “more than a four year old child”, showed the puzzles they can solve etc, though I don’t remember what specific study they referenced. And again to me intelligence isn’t even the point, but when talking about pigs of course it helps to point this out, they’re the most equivalent to dogs so that can help sway people to see their own speciesism.
@@liawilbourn That's good to hear! I have to say I haven't watched as it impacts me negatively in a very unproductive way, I just appreciate actually using a critical eye on the film-making, even though it's a subject matter I'm already absolutely on board with.
Good criticism about the slaughterhouse being shut down and how that could have been more of an emotional high point or climax if you will, and then putting that into perspective with the scale of the industry and how much more work is to be done. But I really like that he kept the central vegan argument to the end, that was hugely powerful for me even though I'm already vegan. When he posed the question to the woman he was interviewing and fixed those piercing Joey eyeballs on her, I felt like I had just come to that conclusion all over again. Total gut punch. Excellent first effort!
It sounds like it was a LITTLE problem, overall you gave a lot of good feedback and it shows how hard Joey has worked over the years. He did say he's been working on it since 2019, so it's been a work in process. It will never be perfect.
I know Dan said on another channel that it was 2019 he was actually working in there, so it’s possible it was already finished when the slaughterhouse shut down much later, but I think (and correct me if I am wrong), they can’t say the documentary closed the slaughterhouse down as an objective fact. I remember when it happened and the company gave their reasons that it was planned to close, but obviously it seemed like such a big coincidence that it was after this investigation. It could well be that it did have something to do with it, but I don’t think there is any evidence to be certain at this stage one way or the other. Perhaps they wanted to be careful about this? Either way, it shutting down is great 😊
I think that although the slaughterhouse did get shut down that wasn’t supposed to be the priority. It’s the bigger picture of informing the public through this documentary of what goes on even in high welfare, RSCPA approved farms (which is a BIG thing here in the UK). People usually don’t buy non red tractor items. That’s what Joey was trying to convey. One slaughterhouse is just that but tackling the organisations is a whole different ball game.
i loved the documentary so much! and the in the free range scene, in the beginning of the scene i was so shocked that omgg this looks like a pig sanctuary but ofc instead of being taking care with love they are "taken care" for profit and then going to be slaughtered, anyways, i was shocked that they have so much space and they are outside, but when the scene zoomed in, we saw the truth of how one pig was so paralyzed and so many pigs were in their own feces, pigs are very clean animals they don't like to be around feces AT ALL! and also the most disgusting scene was how there were so so many piggies thrown in the dumpster and their bodies were rotting and maggots were eating them, and how the worker came in and was beating the paralyzed piggy to death, disguting ew. doesn't matter free range or factory farmed both are cruel to piggies period
Havent seen it yet but good points, you should have been there helping with directing. Maybe there was a reason to do it the way it was done. To highlight the most important parts, and the other important things people can watch on his youtube channel.
The wristwatch adds significantly to your credibility--as does your avoidance of evil cosmetics. Thank you, Ms. Fulton, for your excellent vegan activism and outreach!
Not sure why this video popped up in my feed. I’m not even vegan and never heard of this documentary, but I liked your review. It’s definitely something to think about; how we treat pigs.
Thank you for commenting! Yeah you should give it a watch. There's another great documentary called "Dominion" on youtube I would recommend any non-vegan to watch as well
Truth is usually a problem most people. It is easier to resist change. We have 2 choices accept things as they are or accept responsibility for changing.
I agree about the story telling; he did mention the shutdown of the slaughterhouse during the end credits but it should've been a whole climax. I found the parts interviewing people a bit boring. I've seen the Kip documentaries and so the whole "I tried to reach these people and didn't get any satisfying answers" thing just feels kind of repetitive. Those were the parts of the documentary where I actually stopped watching and picked it up later. I basically watched it in 30 minute chunks.
Thank you for the review. I’m vegan for the animals and don’t watch anything that shows any animal cruelty so this is the only way I’d know what was covered in JC’s movie. Also glad I found your YT site. Cool 👍
It is surprisingly not as graphic as you’d think, that is a good point. The free range farm was absolutely horrendous though man. 😖 Good review! I get what you’re saying about the victory with the slaughterhouse too! ✊
I really enjoyed the film. Its one of the first vegan docs that actually seems to be inviting in a weird way? Like yes theres gore and horror but also the story of the footage etc kept me gripped to like keep watching and see what happens next. Id be interested to see what non vegans think of it and how it got them. I learnt alot in it and was blown away by allot of the stuff too
I think they didn’t add the detail of shutting down the slaughterhouse because it happened after they got the footage- it was probably a timing thing. I love Joey. Very sincere, compassionate (not to mention good looking) person
Based on the title I thought I was going to dislike this take, but it wasn't too bad. I didn't feel the same about the timeline (you made it sound like an old person describing Pulp Fiction when it was released, lol), but maybe you got a point regarding the emotional high point. Regardless I loved the documentary.
Maybe Joey and Co didn't want to highlight the closing of the gas chamber slaughter factory because in reality, another one will most likely be started in another factory. Or he doesn't know exactly what happened with the closing of the factory.
Interesting! I haven't watched it yet. I'm nervous. My vystopia cup is full. Also, I would love to see a block buster animation film aimed at kids that has a great storyline, is educational and promotes veganism. Please creatives????
Someone makes an important documentary for the vegan movement that let's you see the horrific reality behind a slaughterhouse walls, that in fact helped closing a slaughterhouse, and you BIG PROBLEM is the film editing?.. :/
Thank you for commenting! My problem wasn't necessarily the editing, but the storytelling in general. I think if we're going to put time and resources into making documentaries, we should do our best to make them as compelling as we can. Great storytelling gets more eyes on it, and the people that see it, the more will take animal rights seriously.
Sorry it came across that way! Did you watch actually watch this video? It's in no way a personal attack on Joey - just a suggestion for more attention to storytelling in the future.
Draw the connections between the way animals are treated with the way some humans treat others. If our 'owners' could get away with it, they'd treat us just like they treat those animals. Maybe one day they will...
I like to buy homeless ppl rotisserie chicken. It feeds them for a while. What you said is silly. Animals are only worth food or pets. While a homeless person is more important than a billion chickens.
GarudaLegends, all sentient beings are worthy of living a cruelty free life. Consider buying vegan chicken and burgers for the homeless, if you can choose an alternative to abusing and killing someone why wouldn't you ?
@@jjradV no thanks. No one sells rotisserie vegan chicken, and all vegan fake meat is unhealthy. I love homeless ppl and dont hate to give them toxic vegan crap, with low nutrients. I would kill a billion chickens to feed like 2 homeless ppl for life. You hate humans, while i dont.
@@GarudaLegends That doesn't mean a chicken is unimportant. Humans are also animals. My family is more important to me than a stranger, does that mean its fine for me to kill a stranger?
I haven't seen the film yet but Dan Shepard was on Sky's morning episode of Vegan of Course and he talked about how close he and Joey came to ACTUALLY losing their lives to get the gas chamber footage because they were originally planning on getting into the gas chambers at 3:00 AM but Joey wanted to start an hour early. Afterwards they found out that's when the facility does their routine equipment inspections and they actually activate the machinery to make sure everything is working properly. Talk about realizing you literally avoided dying in a gas chamber. I think Dan said where he was if the gondola had started he would've been potentially crushed to death. If nothing else buy this film because of the tremendous amount of risk they took with their lives to get footage.
Go go, Joey! Now I really want to see this documentary! I'm very curious myself to see how the story was edited! However, Joey is the vegan hero of our generation.
Our opinions and beliefs don’t matter. Facts are facts, and if people choose to deny it, and turn a blind eye, then that’s on them. Many people don’t feel anything for animals, so they’re unlikely to change. The majority of people are capable of compassion and respect, so they can change. Factory farming has been around for 100 years, which is nothing. It won’t last.
I find it disappointing that you felt the need to criticise the documentary in a video on RUclips tbh - I see that trolls are using it with the clickbait title which they'll use as confirmation bias & to put other non-vegans off watching it. I thought it was excellent personally & covered all aspects that needed to be covered; the message was clear to me that the slaughterhouse was shut down but there were suggestions that it was due to be shut down anyway, so I wouldn't have wanted to concentrate on that aspect too much. It created the idea that humane slaughter doesn't exist & that pigs are sentient beings who deserve to not be exploited & not be slaughtered prematurely. The free range farm part was the most shocking to me & I've seen several other commenters on Joey's posts say similar. We need non vegans to watch it, not be put off from doing so.
I disagree! I made this review so that people would watch it, and it's working. Lots of people in the comments saying they're going to watch it now and form their own opinion. Many people were worried it would be too graphic
@@Natalie.Fulton If non-vegans watch it great - I just know that someone used the clickbait title negatively to put people off watching it, hence my concern, that's all
Hmmm interesting analysis , i haven't watched the movie yet , but maybe he or they didn't add the part about the one slaughter house getting eventually shut down , because of the awfully difficult cognitive dissonance that we vegan have to deal with when trying to convince carnists to become vegans , cause adding such good news footage at the end of such sad truth documentary could give them the feel better excuse for not getting to care long term for the tremendous suffering of the pigs , because that might build the excuse in their minds that sounds like this : { oh well , that one bad apple culprit in the industry has been taken care off by the ministry and they have shut it down now , so we don't have to worry much about more possible gross animal abuse or inhumane treatment of animals in slaughter houses } etc...
That is actualy incorrect on why it got shut down. First was covid and they had to go on 3 day weeks 4 day weeks. Second was there was a fire which massivly also slowed down production rate and finaly they were also competeing with the other sites for pigs and due to the low production rate it closed down. nothing to do with the documentary which came out 7 months after it closed.
As a meat eater, if you want to convince me to go vegan tell me what to eat that I can actually stomach, feels like a real meal, and isn't just animal-free junk food or pretend meats. Those are the barriers for many of us.
5+ Years carnivore now, when I was plant based for 2 years I watched all of the vegan propaganda films and I still drink milk and eat chicken so this would not change my mind about eating pork. I do want farm animals to be treated better while they are alive and believe that it would breed healthier animals which would be healthier for us to eat. In the beginning you said that many of the workers are depressed, many people in other jobs are also depressed as many people take up jobs for money and not as a hobby or something that they really want to do (I know the irony, who wants to go kill animals, but it's a general point). Any time you have killing there is crap, urine and blood all over and it's expected.
Hey Natalie, no idea who you are, you just showed up on my feed as I am a Vegan. I think you moan a bit too much, why don't you make a better documentary and show us how it is done? As for Joey, well done Joey!
Just a question I'm 15 years vegan and you say the ex slaughterhouse worker is vegan but doesn't look like your typical vegan...What do you mean by that...he is vegan their is no 'look'?
I wonder whether these kinds of documentaries do make that much of a difference? I admire all activists that shine a light on the injustice and cruelty of the animal food industry, but I am not convinced it makes *that* much difference. Veganism remains very much rejected by society in general and the proportion of people who identify as vegans remains stubbornly low. I suspect a completely different tack is needed.
I think documentaries can definitely influence public opinion. Think about Game Changers and Cowspiracy - no one was talking about the health/environmental effects of animal consumption before those (some people were, but more did afterward)
Last week I stumbled into an argument between a meat eater and a vegan. The vegan asked the meat eater why he won’t eat people, but he’ll eat pork. Deflated with no answer the meat eater crawled away. The weird part is that vegan was charged with 1 count of man slaughter after being seen gnawing on the arm of a gentleman who identifies as a carrot. It was madness
Keep an eye out for my upcoming youtube channel where I nitpick your videos. How does a video like this (click bait title and all) benefit the animals?
Thanks for commenting, and I always appreciate constructive feedback! I was pretty clear on how it helps the animals - by putting more focus on storytelling, we can connect more people to the vegan message. Stories have immense power
i dont like joey voice tone, GNgnngGNngng hes like male karen voice, Kevin Maeurdaeurrrr , hes too agressive, he put people in defence mode and shell up he can even be unproductive for veganism (ahimsa)
I kind of feel bad because i eat ground turkey a lot for chili, and I know they're killed this way too.. But i need to eat chili, so.. it sucks and sad, and wish there was a different method.. What my thought was for it, was to first dose them with Nitrous, so they go to sleep, then combine Nitrous and CO2, before going to full CO2 concentration.. so they are more or less asleep before killing them.
You will probably delete this comment! But I’ll write it anyway.. you said even in the best welfare farms there is horrific cruelty.. not really, I have been on a cattle farm in Norway 🇳🇴 and the animals there had a great life.. comfortable straw barns, lots of space to run (yes cows do run), water and food. And the cows hated the farmer so much when ever he walked around they would all follow him around the farm.. I suppose this is a sign of his cruelty towards them.. they were so terrified of him they wanted to follow him everywhere..
I get what you’re saying but it’s not only important how animals are treated during their life but also at their death. If they are using abusive and horrific practices to slaughter them, then it’s wrong.
It would be like you for example having a great life, but at your death, you are tortured and slaughtered. Does it make it that treatment right just because you had a good life?
In some countries and places yea they are raised and killed in horrific circumstances, factory farms etc but In the example i mentioned no they are killed with a bolt gun to the head and die instantly on the farm with zero suffering. I have seen it myself. Great life and quick death. If you believe no animal should be killed then that is another point. But remember all food production kills animals. On fruit farms they spray fruit with pesticides to kill millions of insects. How do you feel about that?
So I know it's a provocative title but to be clear I have a huge amount of respect for Joey and his team. Movies are a very powerful tool for our outreach to non-vegans so I just want to make sure we're making the best ones possible! What did you all think of Pignorant? Am I off base here?
I don’t use amazon prime video
Assuming because it costs money to watch.
I think it's important to break down like you are, to expand the impact of his and other activist's work.
I think the pig rescue thing was a good part of the ending, yes some viewers may have forgotten he rescued two piglets, but after seeing horrors other piglets face, It is good to reconnect the viewer back to those rescued babies.
Harsh but ok. Hes non film maker but hes got a halluva lot of passion. Joey
I thought the mission to obtain the footage was the one of the best parts of the movie. That he is willing to die to expose this. If he just showed the footage without any of the months of planning & execution that went into getting that footage it wouldn't be as impactful. Now nobody can claim fake footage or oh, that's footage from another country!
Well said.
That's a great point. Luckily I've never heard that excuse but I also don't go out and show footage to non-vegans (yet). But from what I understand that's a pretty common accusation from Carneys.
i swear its a deep fake that is what we will hear...look how easy the uk forgot about hugh and his showing what we do to chickens
💯✅💯✅💯✅💯✅
Brilliant documentary. It really drew me in on the 39 minute mark when Juliet Gallatley started explaining about the absolute despair and misery that factory farm pigs have to endure, so well explained. Then the documentary ramped up and got very intense as Joey and Dan went on a mission to get that footage.
I'm so glad he made this movie and that you're helping it to get more views ❤🌱
I bought it (not rented it) for $4.99 on my Amazon Prime, and I don’t ever buy anything, especially with videos lol So that says a lot about how I feel about Joey’s activism’s style.
I liked your take on the suggestions for it to be better.
Given it was was Joey’s first film, it was definitely an awesome try for the first go around.
Something you didn’t talk about was, what I got out of the video the most, which was about the hypocrisy with the RSVCP labeling on the packaging, which I thought was new point I’ve never thought about before, so I’m glad he touched on that, because everything else, I had already seen in other RUclips videos, including by Joey himself.
But you did talk about the Red tractor, and the farmer “dealing” with the sick/injured pig (which was voted best farm), and I had forgotten about those scenes, so, your point about the continuity of the film stood out to me given the fact I forgot some things so easily.
Thanks:)
Exposing the horrific cruelty of animals is essential, I could never be hypocritical of any video produced to bring attention to suffering and violent death of animals.
I applaud and admire Joey Carbstrong for his important work,I can't imagine the vegan movement without him.
Every ethical vegan should be speaking up for the animals, remaining silent does nothing to help the Animals !
I have no quibbles of any kind about this film. Storytelling can be done in more than one way and the way he chose worked well for me and others I know.
Very true - glad you found it compelling!
I saw the first 46 minutes of Pignorant and I have to say it was very hard for me to understand why these slaughter houses could do such evil acts on such innocent sentient animals. I admire Joey and his crew for taking the risks that they did and applaud them for giving information that I'm sure so many people are not aware of.
I donated to Joey and bought the film on Amazon as further support, but , as a vegan who already has enough trouble sleeping at night from thinking about the suffering of pigs and other animals, I couldn't bear to watch it. However, the film makers no doubt ( I hope) knew who their target audience was ---non-vegans. I hope they have made the film in a way that will get those people to watch it to the end once started and to get the film in the first place.
Same here. Although I don't lose sleep at night over thinking about farmed animals' suffering, I do think of them all the time everyday. And thinking of the ways of rebuttals to trolls as well as hoping to contribute anyway I can to animal rights.
I don't agree that getting slaughterhouse shut down should have been an important part of the story. Its the way Hollywood films work, giving a happy ending to the story. People leave feeling completed and removed, like the work has been done. Its great to celebrate success stories of animal rescue, The Gentle Barn, Animals Asia, Soi dog foundation, Asher House, Beagle Freedom Project etc etc. BUT, these animals are equivalent to lottery winners. And when you consider the pure humongous large scale of slaughter and animal suffering we cause, there's a need to keep people engaged and outraged, not comforted and completed.
The one thing i tend to disagree with most vegans on is the focus on slaughter. Whilst this is horrendous, what is worse to me is that these animals are conceived in suffering, born into suffering and live their whole lives from the first breath to the last breath in extreme suffering. People point to nature "red in tooth and claw", as the Victorians termed, to make animals seem cold and heartless. But to me an African savannah where hunters and hunted coexist, is nowhere near as extreme as the suffering we cause. Having said that, there is a lot of focus on how pigs live their lives compared to the enormous potential for love and life that is denied them in their billions.
never thought about it in lotto terms..so true and an awesome read
Well said.
I think there’s a very good reason vegans are and should focus on the slaughter. One of the most common pretexts vegans hear is “look, I agree with you about the suffering aspect, that’s horrible. But if the animal was raised and killed humanely, then it is morally acceptable” or “I only source my animal products from local small farms that treat their animals well”. By focusing too much on the suffering, people start interpreting the issue to be strictly about the quality of an animal’s life before slaughter. They get the idea that the issue is with the way farming animals is currently done. They don’t get the idea that the issue is with the fact that we are farming animals at all and killing them. Of course, it is possible to raise animals who have lived good lives who are killed painlessly. But this is welfarism NOT veganism. Vegans reject the idea that animals are resources and commodities to be used by humans. We are seeking to abolish that mindset and practice. We don’t want better treated slaves, we want no slaves at all. If we water down the message and give people the idea that it’s okay to use and exploit animals for human-use, then animals are never going to be emancipated from their oppression, and try as we might, no matter how many people say they are against the suffering, in order to mass produce animal products, animals have to suffer somewhere along the way, and people will continue to find a comfort zone by saying they are okay with better treated animal slaves. By abolishing the mindset that animals are to be used by humans as resources, we are able to kill two birds with one stone, since this also tackles the issue of human-induced animal suffering just as it does the issue of killing animals at a fraction of their lifespan.
@@johnchesterfield9726 I'm not sure that advocates should focus only on abolition. Encouraging society to transition away from a normal, natural and preferred behaviour will take time, if ever. But on a rights-based stance, we should want animals to be treated well while they are being raised for food (ie by protecting their right not to be treated cruelly). By supporting those farmers that do raise animals well and encouraging consumers to support them if they are not yet willing to forego meat entirely, there can be genuine progress for the care and welfare of the animals while gradually transforming society's attitudes towards them.
“Giving farm animals more space, more natural environments, more companions does not right the fundamental wrong [treating them as resources], any more than giving lab animals more anesthesia or bigger, cleaner cages would right the fundamental wrong in their case.” - Tom Regan, The Case for Animal Rights
“If you really care about animals, then stop trying to figure out how to exploit them ‘compassionately’. Just stop exploiting them.” - Gary Francione
I like that you make such videos, I don't think Joey will be offended by your criticism since you're also helping this video to spread, that's the most important thing
He can handle Piers Morgan, I would hope this doesn't phase him!
I didn't even know he had such a success with that footage, I completely agree it should have been highlighted
you've made me want to watch it now, so you've done a service to it
Great! That's the goal - getting eyes on vegan films
I’ll stick with my beef steak chicken fish and dairy meals
@@maxmcintyre5068 You're not a baby cow.
Let me guess the reason you vegan people are so upset about meat eaters eating animals is because you think that they are cute
You’re not the boss of my food choices I am
I agree with one of your criticisms, just not as much - I was also disappointed that getting the slaughterhouse to shut down wasn't emphasized more, as it could have opened up the dialog about the power of activism to stop these industries. But he did say it, used it as the ending - though I wish it hadn't been at the beginning of the credits. We should have been shown more details about that, the dramatic big payoff after all, it would've been a more emotionally satisfying ending; for inspiration and even more of a call to action.
I liked that it wasn't linear and jumped around to different subjects and timelines, interspersed factual/educational stuff with emotional/dramatic. That was an artistic choice that I appreciated.
My other critique - I wish he could've somehow snuck in why vegetarian is no better than meat eater, as the non vegan viewer still walks away with "ok, meat eating bad, I'll go vegetarian then" which is SO frustrating! And the exploitation/use/rights vs. welfare issue - that we shouldn't be using animals as a resource at all, full stop. That all animals deserve the basic rights to not be exploited, harmed, killed; seen in the same way we see dogs in the U.S.
But there's only so much he could've fit into one film, and on the other hand - I love that the pigs get the attention and dedication they're due. Though I would've liked more issues to have been tackled, this was a film dedicated to pigs and I can't fault him for that.
I agree with everything you liked about it, and the last thing we need is for this review to convince people to not watch it - veganism and the animals needs this film to be viewed by as many people as possible! Despite its minor flaws, it's a great film for what it tackles and how it's done. It's not perfect but so what?
For a first time feature film director, Joey showed he has much talent in this area and I look forward to his directing in the future. I thought it was a searing, moving, powerful and ultimately inspiring film. He deserves major kudos for it.
Even if vegans don't want to watch it (you can fast fwd. through the awful parts), PLEASE at least rent it to help boost it's reach around the world! Isn 't that what we want most - more people to go vegan? Getting more people to watch this will help do that. That's worth way more than $1.99!
“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.” Teddy Roosevelt
This is the first thing that came to mind after watching this.
I love that poem! I agree with the sentiment and give Joey mad props for risking his life and making this - but I don't think constructive criticism hurts anyone. Our goal is animal liberation and storytelling is an important avenue for changing culture.
Wow!! I started this video at it being 15 views, and then it jumped to 125 views!! I love it! It's so good to people who care about animals getting exposure.
I also love this thing that I haven't really noticed till now. When you Natalie was kinda not so much, but kinda starting out as the juggling vegan. Your videos feel so different now. I can't quite picture on it, but it's cool to see.
I also agree with most of what you were saying. I would just like to add that Joey could have easily started off the with there is no humane slaughter, and here is why, and the could have concluded, as you can see slaughter is not ethical for anyone. Not for humans involved, or the animals.
Anyway good job Natalie!! It's been a while since I left a comment. I know this one is a long one. I love your videos though. You are a very smart individual. We are very lucky to have you on our side. 🫶🏻
Thanks so much! Appreciate the kind words
Vegan for 10 years- I went vegan because it became clear to me how horrific these images would be and how my heart couldn’t ever bear to witness it. I could never watch these documentaries but they need to exist - expose this fucking monstrous cruelty
ive just gone vegan for that very reason. if i cant bear to watch it, how can i deal with paying for it to occur?
I agree it's not perfect but Joey himself admitted afterwards that he has a new found respect for film makers as he found it all incredibly hard work. Bear in mind that he isn't professionally trained as a film maker, I think he's done a good job and will only get better if he produces more. Ultimately, he's got something onto a mainstream service provider, which, we as vegans can all share, so it will help. Yes, it could have been better, but, maybe only with some professional guidance, which would have delayed the release, cost more etc. It's a tough one, I find many vegan videos don't have a great message or way of messaging (often I find them too direct or contrived) so I tend to be very picky about what I share, but I also appreciate how hard it is to get into the psychology of what works and what turns non-vegans away so I'm also grateful for their work. I guess there's no single way to convince people and everyone working in different ways, it all helps. Keep up the great work Natalie.
The purpose of his film was to expose this industry not to create a cinematic storytelling master piece to entertain you.
that's a fair enough point I guess, but at the same time should that be a storytelling masterpiece to entertain it could've opened eyes to even more carnists 🤷♂
Thanks for commenting! To be clear, I never said I didn't find it entertaining, just that the storytelling could have been better. Stories are incredibly important and have been used throughout history to change hearts and minds. When we tell better stories, we connect with more people and have more power to change the world. This power should not be underestimated.
@@Natalie.FultonJFC, it’s a documentary, not some made-up fake movie. Are you ok? You don’t like it? Then, go make your own movie or whatever. What an absolute waste of time and space you’ve created, mam. 🤦🏻
@@mattsapero1896its a documentary not just storytelling it's showing factual abuse of animals for an unnecessary purpose for profit why would he need to tell a better story that makes no sense and not the point of the documentary
Exactly how sick is this..
I actually think that the disjointed timeline was good because it meant that the sometimes hard to watch negatives of pig farming and slaughter were not continuous.
Exactly!!!
You're right. Also, Joey is a superhero. He did have the slaughterhouse shut down story in the doc. It was at the end in a short clip.
Joey is a hero for doing this
My main issue is always that these types of things always seem like welfare content. Like "Gas chambers are the problem!" when really killing in any way is the problem.
Joey is very clear there is no humane way to kill an animal. Am I missing something? I’m already vegan so while I support Joey, I don’t want to watch it and subject myself to constant trauma.
No... that's not the right way to look at it ...
People who are disconnected from reality need to see what's happening.. no amount of lecturing can help.. what Joey did was really commendable...
No, the welfare argument is just the entry point here to the main argument of animal rights. You have to meet the viewers where they're at to keep them listening, and then make a compelling case for the main argument.
have you watched it though? This is so NOT a welfarist film! He tackles the humane myth throughout the film.
@@claytheist6736 thing is, please at least rent it just so it can get more views from non vegans and spread to more people! And as Natalie said, it's not constant trauma at all, there are a few parts that are awful to watch but you can fast forward, most of it is not that.
Good quality doc he made
Thank you so much for this video! You pointed out all the amazing and best parts of Pignorant, whilst gently and articulately explaining why you felt the way you did. I REALLY agree with every single point, and am so thankful for your honesty. Thank you for this! 👏🏻
I disagree. I thought the structure of the documentary was surprisingly good. I was fearing a half-assed copy of Cowspiracy, and, like you say, Joey's RUclips stuff is often a bit emotionally charged, so had fairly low expectations. However, the structure felt refreshing and unique to me. It made sense and I didn't get lost... and like you said, Joey kept his cool!
Fair play to joey is all i can say
Nice review! I bought the film on Amazon but haven't watched it yet. Excited to check it out.
im vegan and studied media and communcation at uni, so this was really interesting to watch!
Joey is a HERO and deserves high praise. Showing how dangerous it was to get the footage was awesome storytelling because it drew you in on the edge of your seat!!! Then you have MORE empathy and compassion too for the real victims, the poor PIGS!!!!
Love love love Joey's activism. He is so passionate and dedicated an a true inspiration for all. Thank you for sharing.
Seems pedantic but I really appreciate discussing these kinds of documentary in terms of being a good documentary.
I've been engaging in art and its criticism for a while longer than I've been really engaged with veganism (and ethics in general) and while I don't really care about whether this kind of documentary is "artistically valid" or something people are emotional creatures. Quite often you can theoretically understand that something is bad but until it hits emotionally people tend not to act on it (and then try to argue backwards that their view is still rational).
In a lot of ways I don't think people will accept an argument until it works emotionally for them. Sometimes the theory can get you there, but art often is the way to help you emotionally understand.
and to me it was done artistically and was emotional, and I've been in the arts my whole life, love great filmmaking and worked in the film industry so I'm extra discerning too.
@homie3461oh yes it talked about their intelligence a lot, “more than a four year old child”, showed the puzzles they can solve etc, though I don’t remember what specific study they referenced. And again to me intelligence isn’t even the point, but when talking about pigs of course it helps to point this out, they’re the most equivalent to dogs so that can help sway people to see their own speciesism.
@@liawilbourn That's good to hear!
I have to say I haven't watched as it impacts me negatively in a very unproductive way, I just appreciate actually using a critical eye on the film-making, even though it's a subject matter I'm already absolutely on board with.
Good criticism about the slaughterhouse being shut down and how that could have been more of an emotional high point or climax if you will, and then putting that into perspective with the scale of the industry and how much more work is to be done. But I really like that he kept the central vegan argument to the end, that was hugely powerful for me even though I'm already vegan. When he posed the question to the woman he was interviewing and fixed those piercing Joey eyeballs on her, I felt like I had just come to that conclusion all over again. Total gut punch. Excellent first effort!
It sounds like it was a LITTLE problem, overall you gave a lot of good feedback and it shows how hard Joey has worked over the years. He did say he's been working on it since 2019, so it's been a work in process. It will never be perfect.
I respect your views but have a different view of this documentary. It was really powerful and lots of documentaries jump around ✌🏼 🌱
Glad you enjoyed it! Yes, art is subjective
@@Natalie.Fulton It's not art it's reality.
I know Dan said on another channel that it was 2019 he was actually working in there, so it’s possible it was already finished when the slaughterhouse shut down much later, but I think (and correct me if I am wrong), they can’t say the documentary closed the slaughterhouse down as an objective fact. I remember when it happened and the company gave their reasons that it was planned to close, but obviously it seemed like such a big coincidence that it was after this investigation. It could well be that it did have something to do with it, but I don’t think there is any evidence to be certain at this stage one way or the other. Perhaps they wanted to be careful about this? Either way, it shutting down is great 😊
Yep, good point! He didn’t want to take credit for it as that could’ve been an easy target by non vegans to debunk.
Interesting - I didn't realize there was doubt that joey had closed it down.
Yep, the slaughter house shut after they'd filmed the documentary. That's why he had to put in the extra bit as the credits rolled.
I love your constructive criticism, it was definitely good overall for his first documentary. I bought it so I can share with others in the future.
I think that although the slaughterhouse did get shut down that wasn’t supposed to be the priority. It’s the bigger picture of informing the public through this documentary of what goes on even in high welfare, RSCPA approved farms (which is a BIG thing here in the UK). People usually don’t buy non red tractor items. That’s what Joey was trying to convey. One slaughterhouse is just that but tackling the organisations is a whole different ball game.
I thought it was great😊😊😊
Seeing the free range farm broke my heart🥺🥺🥺😥😥😥 This documentary should be shown in schools💚💚💚
i loved the documentary so much! and the in the free range scene, in the beginning of the scene i was so shocked that omgg this looks like a pig sanctuary but ofc instead of being taking care with love they are "taken care" for profit and then going to be slaughtered, anyways, i was shocked that they have so much space and they are outside, but when the scene zoomed in, we saw the truth of how one pig was so paralyzed and so many pigs were in their own feces, pigs are very clean animals they don't like to be around feces AT ALL! and also the most disgusting scene was how there were so so many piggies thrown in the dumpster and their bodies were rotting and maggots were eating them, and how the worker came in and was beating the paralyzed piggy to death, disguting ew. doesn't matter free range or factory farmed both are cruel to piggies period
Havent seen it yet but good points, you should have been there helping with directing.
Maybe there was a reason to do it the way it was done. To highlight the most important parts, and the other important things people can watch on his youtube channel.
The wristwatch adds significantly to your credibility--as does your avoidance of evil cosmetics. Thank you, Ms. Fulton, for your excellent vegan activism and outreach!
Ban Slaughter
Not sure why this video popped up in my feed. I’m not even vegan and never heard of this documentary, but I liked your review. It’s definitely something to think about; how we treat pigs.
Thank you for commenting! Yeah you should give it a watch. There's another great documentary called "Dominion" on youtube I would recommend any non-vegan to watch as well
@@Natalie.Fulton Ok, I'll check it out. Thanks for the suggestion.
Great video. 💖🐖
Truth is usually a problem most people. It is easier to resist change. We have 2 choices accept things as they are or accept responsibility for changing.
I agree about the story telling; he did mention the shutdown of the slaughterhouse during the end credits but it should've been a whole climax.
I found the parts interviewing people a bit boring. I've seen the Kip documentaries and so the whole "I tried to reach these people and didn't get any satisfying answers" thing just feels kind of repetitive. Those were the parts of the documentary where I actually stopped watching and picked it up later. I basically watched it in 30 minute chunks.
Thank you for the review. I’m vegan for the animals and don’t watch anything that shows any animal cruelty so this is the only way I’d know what was covered in JC’s movie. Also glad I found your YT site. Cool 👍
Thank you and welcome aboard!
Good I know it wasn’t overly graphic. I’ll probably sit down with a can of beans and watch it this weekend 🫘
Wow - big spender!
✅
Thanks so much for the support! I really appreciate it
It is surprisingly not as graphic as you’d think, that is a good point. The free range farm was absolutely horrendous though man. 😖 Good review! I get what you’re saying about the victory with the slaughterhouse too! ✊
I really enjoyed the film. Its one of the first vegan docs that actually seems to be inviting in a weird way? Like yes theres gore and horror but also the story of the footage etc kept me gripped to like keep watching and see what happens next. Id be interested to see what non vegans think of it and how it got them. I learnt alot in it and was blown away by allot of the stuff too
It was free for people with Amazon Prime in the UK
I think they didn’t add the detail of shutting down the slaughterhouse because it happened after they got the footage- it was probably a timing thing. I love Joey. Very sincere, compassionate (not to mention good looking) person
Shame on you.
I agree with most of your points to be fair.
Based on the title I thought I was going to dislike this take, but it wasn't too bad. I didn't feel the same about the timeline (you made it sound like an old person describing Pulp Fiction when it was released, lol), but maybe you got a point regarding the emotional high point. Regardless I loved the documentary.
Maybe Joey and Co didn't want to highlight the closing of the gas chamber slaughter factory because in reality, another one will most likely be started in another factory. Or he doesn't know exactly what happened with the closing of the factory.
Good points!
very well done
Interesting! I haven't watched it yet. I'm nervous. My vystopia cup is full. Also, I would love to see a block buster animation film aimed at kids that has a great storyline, is educational and promotes veganism. Please creatives????
Someone makes an important documentary for the vegan movement that let's you see the horrific reality behind a slaughterhouse walls, that in fact helped closing a slaughterhouse, and you BIG PROBLEM is the film editing?.. :/
Thank you for commenting! My problem wasn't necessarily the editing, but the storytelling in general. I think if we're going to put time and resources into making documentaries, we should do our best to make them as compelling as we can. Great storytelling gets more eyes on it, and the people that see it, the more will take animal rights seriously.
I woul love to see it but it is not available on Amazon UK yet
I am a big supporter of joey
UPDATE it is now available on UK amazon
Insightful Natalie Faulton would be epic duo with Joey Carbstrong and Tarrion partridge and Dan team
Vogan for ever and ever!💚
Vegan After Dark!! Dan has a RUclips channel called Grumpy Vegan Grandad🌽🥗💪
Oh wow! Just made the connection that's the same guy
I don't agree .
This seems like a personal attack on Joey's activusm. He's doing important work
Sorry it came across that way! Did you watch actually watch this video? It's in no way a personal attack on Joey - just a suggestion for more attention to storytelling in the future.
It's pure clout chasing, this person just wants views off of the back of someone else's hard work.
Draw the connections between the way animals are treated with the way some humans treat others. If our 'owners' could get away with it, they'd treat us just like they treat those animals. Maybe one day they will...
And they did... in Mao's China as well as in Nazi Germany
I like to buy homeless ppl rotisserie chicken. It feeds them for a while. What you said is silly. Animals are only worth food or pets. While a homeless person is more important than a billion chickens.
GarudaLegends, all sentient beings are worthy of living a cruelty free life.
Consider buying vegan chicken and burgers for the homeless, if you can choose an alternative to abusing and killing someone why wouldn't you ?
@@jjradV no thanks. No one sells rotisserie vegan chicken, and all vegan fake meat is unhealthy. I love homeless ppl and dont hate to give them toxic vegan crap, with low nutrients. I would kill a billion chickens to feed like 2 homeless ppl for life. You hate humans, while i dont.
@@GarudaLegends That doesn't mean a chicken is unimportant. Humans are also animals. My family is more important to me than a stranger, does that mean its fine for me to kill a stranger?
I haven't seen the film yet but Dan Shepard was on Sky's morning episode of Vegan of Course and he talked about how close he and Joey came to ACTUALLY losing their lives to get the gas chamber footage because they were originally planning on getting into the gas chambers at 3:00 AM but Joey wanted to start an hour early. Afterwards they found out that's when the facility does their routine equipment inspections and they actually activate the machinery to make sure everything is working properly. Talk about realizing you literally avoided dying in a gas chamber. I think Dan said where he was if the gondola had started he would've been potentially crushed to death.
If nothing else buy this film because of the tremendous amount of risk they took with their lives to get footage.
Wow - that's terrifying!
Natalie, I like your unique style of videos. Great channel
great review
Natalie, you forgot to tell us the most important part -/did you write a review??
Thanks for the reminder! Just posted one on IMDB, left a rating on Amazon after I watched as well.
Well i hope you a film one day, withbthat strong storybline!
hopefully one day!
Go go, Joey! Now I really want to see this documentary! I'm very curious myself to see how the story was edited!
However, Joey is the vegan hero of our generation.
Bloody good points and video
Our opinions and beliefs don’t matter. Facts are facts, and if people choose to deny it, and turn a blind eye, then that’s on them. Many people don’t feel anything for animals, so they’re unlikely to change. The majority of people are capable of compassion and respect, so they can change. Factory farming has been around for 100 years, which is nothing. It won’t last.
I find it disappointing that you felt the need to criticise the documentary in a video on RUclips tbh - I see that trolls are using it with the clickbait title which they'll use as confirmation bias & to put other non-vegans off watching it. I thought it was excellent personally & covered all aspects that needed to be covered; the message was clear to me that the slaughterhouse was shut down but there were suggestions that it was due to be shut down anyway, so I wouldn't have wanted to concentrate on that aspect too much. It created the idea that humane slaughter doesn't exist & that pigs are sentient beings who deserve to not be exploited & not be slaughtered prematurely. The free range farm part was the most shocking to me & I've seen several other commenters on Joey's posts say similar. We need non vegans to watch it, not be put off from doing so.
I disagree! I made this review so that people would watch it, and it's working. Lots of people in the comments saying they're going to watch it now and form their own opinion. Many people were worried it would be too graphic
@@Natalie.Fulton If non-vegans watch it great - I just know that someone used the clickbait title negatively to put people off watching it, hence my concern, that's all
Hmmm interesting analysis , i haven't watched the movie yet , but maybe he or they didn't add the part about the one slaughter house getting eventually shut down , because of the awfully difficult cognitive dissonance that we vegan have to deal with when trying to convince carnists to become vegans , cause adding such good news footage at the end of such sad truth documentary could give them the feel better excuse for not getting to care long term for the tremendous suffering of the pigs , because that might build the excuse in their minds that sounds like this : { oh well , that one bad apple culprit in the industry has been taken care off by the ministry and they have shut it down now , so we don't have to worry much about more possible gross animal abuse or inhumane treatment of animals in slaughter houses } etc...
That is actualy incorrect on why it got shut down. First was covid and they had to go on 3 day weeks 4 day weeks. Second was there was a fire which massivly also slowed down production rate and finaly they were also competeing with the other sites for pigs and due to the low production rate it closed down. nothing to do with the documentary which came out 7 months after it closed.
I don’t agree about the editing. This is how modern movies are made. Story lines are going back and forth. You should be used to it by now.
👍🏻
I bought the film, but will probably never watch it.
As a meat eater, if you want to convince me to go vegan tell me what to eat that I can actually stomach, feels like a real meal, and isn't just animal-free junk food or pretend meats. Those are the barriers for many of us.
...
5+ Years carnivore now, when I was plant based for 2 years I watched all of the vegan propaganda films and I still drink milk and eat chicken so this would not change my mind about eating pork.
I do want farm animals to be treated better while they are alive and believe that it would breed healthier animals which would be healthier for us to eat.
In the beginning you said that many of the workers are depressed, many people in other jobs are also depressed as many people take up jobs for money and not as a hobby or something that they really want to do (I know the irony, who wants to go kill animals, but it's a general point).
Any time you have killing there is crap, urine and blood all over and it's expected.
You really live up to your title, meathead. Shallow narcissistic reasoning at its finest. 🥂
11 minute arm exercise xD
Hey Natalie, no idea who you are, you just showed up on my feed as I am a Vegan. I think you moan a bit too much, why don't you make a better documentary and show us how it is done?
As for Joey, well done Joey!
Constructive criticism not allowed, vegans should stick to that policy
@@jimmyobrien8738 With a clickbait headline like "My BIG problem with Joey...", I don't think "constructive criticism" was the main goal!
@@TT-rl4su what was then?
noice
Fair
Just a question I'm 15 years vegan and you say the ex slaughterhouse worker is vegan but doesn't look like your typical vegan...What do you mean by that...he is vegan their is no 'look'?
Sure - I understand there's no way to "look" vegan, but the public perception of vegans is typically white females
I wonder whether these kinds of documentaries do make that much of a difference? I admire all activists that shine a light on the injustice and cruelty of the animal food industry, but I am not convinced it makes *that* much difference. Veganism remains very much rejected by society in general and the proportion of people who identify as vegans remains stubbornly low. I suspect a completely different tack is needed.
I think documentaries can definitely influence public opinion. Think about Game Changers and Cowspiracy - no one was talking about the health/environmental effects of animal consumption before those (some people were, but more did afterward)
Last week I stumbled into an argument between a meat eater and a vegan. The vegan asked the meat eater why he won’t eat people, but he’ll eat pork. Deflated with no answer the meat eater crawled away.
The weird part is that vegan was charged with 1 count of man slaughter after being seen gnawing on the arm of a gentleman who identifies as a carrot. It was madness
@@ChadKasten-zv7lz So basically you had no intelligent critique for the video so you resorted to childish trolling.
I am a proud pignorant now it`s time for a ham and bacon sandwich. Yummy.
Keep an eye out for my upcoming youtube channel where I nitpick your videos.
How does a video like this (click bait title and all) benefit the animals?
Thanks for commenting, and I always appreciate constructive feedback! I was pretty clear on how it helps the animals - by putting more focus on storytelling, we can connect more people to the vegan message. Stories have immense power
It sounds to me like you were expecting a Hollywood movie on a Hollywood budget.
Nope! Storytelling is free
Lol at first I thought you paid 199$ to rent it.
i dont like joey voice tone, GNgnngGNngng hes like male karen voice, Kevin
Maeurdaeurrrr , hes too agressive, he put people in defence mode and shell up
he can even be unproductive for veganism (ahimsa)
I kind of feel bad because i eat ground turkey a lot for chili, and I know they're killed this way too.. But i need to eat chili, so.. it sucks and sad, and wish there was a different method..
What my thought was for it, was to first dose them with Nitrous, so they go to sleep, then combine Nitrous and CO2, before going to full CO2 concentration.. so they are more or less asleep before killing them.
You will probably delete this comment! But I’ll write it anyway.. you said even in the best welfare farms there is horrific cruelty.. not really, I have been on a cattle farm in Norway 🇳🇴 and the animals there had a great life.. comfortable straw barns, lots of space to run (yes cows do run), water and food. And the cows hated the farmer so much when ever he walked around they would all follow him around the farm.. I suppose this is a sign of his cruelty towards them.. they were so terrified of him they wanted to follow him everywhere..
I get what you’re saying but it’s not only important how animals are treated during their life but also at their death. If they are using abusive and horrific practices to slaughter them, then it’s wrong.
It would be like you for example having a great life, but at your death, you are tortured and slaughtered. Does it make it that treatment right just because you had a good life?
In some countries and places yea they are raised and killed in horrific circumstances, factory farms etc but In the example i mentioned no they are killed with a bolt gun to the head and die instantly on the farm with zero suffering. I have seen it myself. Great life and quick death. If you believe no animal should be killed then that is another point. But remember all food production kills animals. On fruit farms they spray fruit with pesticides to kill millions of insects. How do you feel about that?