This is a common thing though, I don't get why it's labeled as something unique about this movie. Game of Thrones has this in spades. There's probably 30+ different renditions of the main theme, varying in notes to create a different score.
Same goes up for Lex Luthor theme, its the Man of Steel theme in reverse. Yes ladies and gents, and than in Justice League we get this shit OST from Danny Elfman, please dont let him get anywhere near DC ever again.
"This is a common thing though, I don't get why it's labeled as something unique about this movie. Game of Thrones has this in spades" And GoT has very memorable music too. I never heard him saying it's unique to this movie. I heard him states some of the technique used in this movie to enhance the music. There's probably no technique that's unique to any movie, but by talking about what worked and what didn't, we still learn.
I'd say Superman's theme (from the Donner movies) gets the ever. That or the one from Burton's Batman. Wonder Woman's isn't bad, definitely more memorable than all the other recent offerings, but not in the same league as those two.
Nope 80s Superman and Tim Burton's Batman themes are utterly unforgettable. Darth Vader's Imperial March is the most epic ever. This theme is utter trash in comparison. It's about as cheap as her costume looks and a tittling around of same three notes is a totally lazy under the guise of a 7/8 time signature being mistaken as some sort of great writing.
I think it is smart that Rupert still had the WW theme in different ways. A more heroic kind of way, a mysterious way, and a more sorrow way. And of course, the badass version by Hans. Instead of just using the same score by Hans all the time, which is a great score for WW of course, I like that Rupert made his own version of the WW. You can still hear Hans' theme in it, but Rupert made different styles of it.
Watching this analysis made me realise there are similarities between this and the music of Metal Gear Solid (which makes sense as Rupert's brother composed those games).
And then what happened to this great theme and story in Justice League? I loved the Wonder Woman score and then it just seemed to go away. Can you do a breakdown of the Justice League movie score?
I was wondering why, despite my love of both movie scores and superhero films, the Wonder Woman score is the only one I've consistently listened to and enjoyed. Thank you for the reasoning behind it!
You're completely right. When I first watched the film in theatres I was disappointed when I didn't hear it in the first act, but then when it finally came, it was glorious. The perfect moment to showcase it.
TheWilczak -- ??? Why are you disagreeing with Verland? He's right. They did use her theme, but only very limitedly and not very well. (Compare/contrast with the rehash of Batman's theme from '89, which they used more prominently.) WW's theme *is* poorly done, by comparison. Why do you disagree with that?
Danny Elfman's work there was trash, completely unmemorable. the media kept saying "Oh lol he did Avengers Age of Ultron" wait, Age of Ultron had a different theme? pffff
You had me right up onto the end. Doesn't matter if a man or a woman is composing, it only matters who is composing. Gender doesn't make music, minds do.
I felt the exact same way. His ending statement that the one thing to make it better was something based off of gender translates to the soundtrack being worse because of the gender of the person that made it.
Joao, I want you to go to 4:00, his exact words before he prefaces the idea is, "Only one thing could make it better..." I understand how you could miss that, but in the end, your comment is wrong.
It’s as if the music is developing and growing with Diana as she develops from Diana, the innocent princess, to the empowering Wonder Woman that she has become.
And did they continue this kind of thought behind Wonder Woman's, Superman's and Batman's theme in Justice League? No? Oh yeah I forgot, Danny Elfman just wanted a symphonic Wonder Woman theme for like 20 seconds and then just play shuffle on his spotify playlist of his own and Williams's work. Great.
I totally agree. I love the motifs in MoS, BvS, and WW and they were just thrown away, more or less, for Justice League. Like, why was the Burton Batman theme in there? What purpose did it serve? Batman had two great musical motifs from BvS already - his theme that's sort of like the child-Bruce theme and then his theme as a broken-down, cynical adult who feels there are no more heroes left. Superman had that great main theme from MOS, his Clark Kent theme, and then the Krytonian lullaby theme (the track "Goodbye My Son" from MOS) as well.
Megajon you're right dude, blame Joss Whedon! Zack Snyder had junkie xl originally score this movie, as a matter of fact you can hear his theme for JL on RUclips and it's leagues (no pun intended) above what they got going now.
Here is the cool part, the wonder woman theme is a by product of Christopher Nolan's the Dark Knight and shows how that movie continues to be a genre changing super hero movie. The theme of the Joker was a point of consternation for Nolan and Zimmer until Zimmer had Tina Guo, the amazing celloist, experiment with her electric cello and came to the Jokers theme. Later when working on Wonder Woman for BvS he remembered her and what she could do and blammo, kick was rock cello for WW. So thank you Nolan, and especially thank the wonderfully talented Tina Guo.
I would love to see what Lisa Gerard would do if she got a super hero film. That said, this is my favorite hero theme since Tim Burton's Batman or the early 90s Flash show.
It never fails to give me goose bumps, raises the hair on my arms and legs. Watching Tina Guo woman play it is a numinous and blood tingling experience.
I remember the Spiderman movies from 2002 - 2007 had an AMAZING theme that was reworked into different renditions, depending on the mood of the scenes. Just stumbled upon the theme a couple of days ago and it sent shivers down my spine. Basicly, Danny Elfman (and probably other composers as well) had this idea 15 years ago.
Tina Guo also had a great input in the creation of the Wonder Woman epic theme. If I recall rightly, Hans Zimmer wanted to collaborate her after watching her YT videos. He took a lot of inspiration from her. It's no wonder, Zimmer loves to give woman voices in his music. So now I really perceive WW's theme as an hybrid of Zimmer, JL Junkie and Tina Guo.This theme really brings out the best of them all.
An excellent video ruined by people complaining in the comments, RUclips in a nutshell. How dare someone suggest that a woman get a job in Hollywood... it would definitely be great to have more female crew members next time, but nobody is saying to trod over men to achieve that. Literally, the salt over one person saying "It'd be cool to hear a female composer in the first big female-led superhero film" is ridiculous. Great vid, Dan
Yes, but to be fair, saying "It'd be cool to hear a female composer in the first big female-led superhero film" is pretty silly, too. I don't think anyone would complain about a woman composing for a movie about a man. They did the right thing by choosing a composer without regard to gender. If they would have happened to choose a woman, that would have been kind of neat, but not for any logical reason beyond the sense of symmetry. ...Now you have me wondering whether Superman had male makeup artists.
People are under the impression that Dan meant firing the current composer and hiring a female one. I can see why it sounded like that ("only one thing could make it better," poor choice of wording), but I don't believe that's what it was. Sometimes composers are wrapped up in another project when production starts on a sequel to a film they were involved with, so another composer takes their spot, works with established leitmotif, and adds their own bits and touches. If such an occasion presented itself, I think people would be interested in a female composer's take on a female superhero as a matter of fact, rather than a matter of bigotry and male exclusion. Also in case everyone somehow forgot: ruclips.net/video/tI2ASp0f7GU/видео.html
This video is basically a guide on,“How to slowly adjust your characters theme song to match your characters Growth and progression”.....and I love it😍,very useful to newbies who are doing music for their own Superhero characters.
There are actually people upset that he said he would like to hear what a women could do with the next wonderwoman movie, huh. Thats enough internet for today, this shit gets worse every day. Great video mate, keep it up.
lol, it was unnecessary, Those are great composers I'm sure, but just less of them. Why must there be a need of 50 50 female male ratio? What about Nursing why isn't there a call for Nurses to be 50 50? Or Any other female dominates fields?
Because that's the fucking irony, dude. Who the fuck cares if it is a woman or a man? Why do people have the urge to push this "A WOMAN DID IT"? Why does it matter what gender they are?
Ron Zhou Oh, but there is a call for exactly that. It's just that western societies tend to bias men against taking those jobs, not only because they tend to pay worse, but also because they're viewed as "soft" or "unmanly" or some other toxic and contrafactual bullcrap. Also, please note that advocating for more representation does not necessarily mean 50 / 50. It could also mean 65 f /35 m for example, but the main takeaway is just "more representation" regardless of the specific numbers.
The more I read, watch, and study this film, the more I appreciate it. I still haven't found a love for the penultimate battle sequence, but the rest of the film is exactly what I love about comic book films. It's witty, it's exciting, it's heartfelt, it's beautifully shot and choreographed, and above all, it sores. Films like this always excite me and give me the shivers. It's the same feeling I had when I first watched the Fellowship of the Ring when the fellowship fought in the mines of Moria. Or in Toy Story when Buzz falls with style. Or in Unbreakable when David Dunn realises his potential and saves those two girls. Or in The Incredibles when Elastigirl saves her two kids from the rocket. Or in Terminator 2 when he says, "Come with me if you want to live." Or in Casino Royale when Bond quips to Vesper, "That's because you know what I can do with my little finger." Or in The Avengers when Hulk punches the shit out of that Chitauri Leviathan. Or in Rocky at the end of his fight. Or in Shawshank Redemption when Andy crawls through a river of shit and comes out clean on the other side. Or in Schindler's List when Schindler sobs as he is surrounded by all those he saved. Or in The Matrix when Neo realises he's the One. Or in Sunset Boulevard when Norma Desmond goes in for her close-up...
That's true. It's has a really good OST. The OST of DC movies stick... I can't remember any music from Marvel Movies, aside from Guardians of the Galaxy...
This is a really good breakdown of the theme.I personally enjoyed and found it very iconic. And it just hit me that people never really talk much about themes from Marvel movies....i wonder why
I remember going to the cinema watching Wonder Woman with so much hype for the sountrack because I absolutely loved it in BvS. And it did not disappoint, the buildup to the moment were we here the BvS tune for the first time is great and I am fascinated by the fact that a lot of the other soundtracks are also different versions of this theme, even though you sometimes don't quite notice it.
It is great music and I could not care less what sex the person who created it was. Likewise the reason I liked the story wasn't because it had a great female lead but rather because it was a great story.
Can you talk about how they somehow continued this amazing vibe with the Cello and violin rendition in the trailer for wonder woman 1984 i love how it carries the mysterious but then badass and into triumphant vibe and then making that whole thing feel like the 80s
Fucking awesome movie, but you're right Dan, it'd be nice to have Diana's theme be composed by another woman. I'm still very glad we got such a strong lead actress and such a great director. Well done, ladies.
They applied the same thing in Steven Universe where each character's theme is presented by an instrument unique to them. When characters fuse both instruments play together and create a song unique to thay fusion character. Cool stuff~ Love how you pointed this out with Wonder Woman :)
Man of Steel did the exact same thing. You do not hear Superman's theme until the very end of the film. You do, however hear it echoed throughout the rest of the film in tracks like "Look to the Stars", "Sent here for a Reason", "Flight", and (one of my favorites) "This is Clark Kent". As for that woman composer would make it better claim. That seems entirely baseless to me.
Wonder Woman soundtrack is good but Man of steel is still the best in dceu. Imo Hans Zimmer did a very hard work and went god mode on Man of steel it was fucking perfection
He didn't say it would be better, he said "I'd love to see what a woman would do musically for the next WW film". Which could be worse, depending on who would be hired, but there's no inherent stating that either gender is superior - only that female composers STILL have a hard time of it in the movie industry in general, and this could be a nice way for THAT glass ceiling to take a crack or two.
This was a great video. As a serious collector of film music going on shy of 30 years, I wish more videos were done like this. Film music is not an easy task and its very under appreciated. There are many great female film composers, although I do miss the late and great Shirley Walker.
I personally don't care whether a woman scores a film or not. I mean, what does it matter whether a movie about a female is scored by a female? If they do good work, let them work I say. If they happen to be a woman, it changes nothing to me.
Great video!!! I love the Wonder Woman score and you have perfectly explained why even though her main theme was done by another composer, it still fits into the score grated for the film! I loved how the took that hardcore cello piece and then manipulated to create the movie's score, it's very clever. Also I 100% agree with you on the woman composer thing. I have noticed that most composers are male and I think it would be great to have a woman work on the music for the next wonder woman movie. Wonder woman has been about breaking glass ceilings in the filming industry and it would be great to see it continue that trend with its expansion.
This is what makes DC so great. Sure it may be full of misses and not everyone's cup of tea but the production, tone, the theme and settings are all superior and full of character. Not Marvel's cookie cutter strategies
I doubt many got annoyed by him saying women should be given the chance to score films. The thing is that the way he said it, it sounded like women should be given the job, simply on the merit of them being women. In which case, no, that's equally as stupid as not giving it to them for being women. There is a middle ground in which the best composer gets the job. If that is a woman so be it.
_"There is a middle ground in which the best composer gets the job. If that is a woman so be it."_ If that were his argument no one would be complaining. The thing is, he is explicitly arguing for the opposite.
+raider968 Inequality of outcome is not the same as inequality of opportunity. Or do you happen to think the NBA is incredibly racist towards white people? To suggest that a gender imbalance is proof of discrimination of any sort, is asinine and dishonest of the highest order. There aren't as many women in composition because there aren't many women choosing that career. End of story. Stop looking for discrimination where none exists.
raider968 haha advocating female superiority huh... damn you guys are insecure. Saying that you would like to see what a female composer does for wonder woman is little more than pontificating on a different take for the score. I swear some guys spend more time stressing over the presence of feminism than women do.
the music never fails to give me goosebumps everytime i hear it and i was almost kicked out the movie theater after i threw my hands up in the air shouting "YES" once it first came on
Dan: *States the objective, easily verifiable fact than film is a disproportionately male dominated industry despite many highly talented female creatives.* Men: I have never felt more attacked in my entire life how dare you.
That's not what people are upset over. They're upset because he talks about how amazing and incredible the current film composer is, and then he suddenly wants to throw the composer to the side because the he doesn't have a vagina. It's utterly retarded. Vaginas don't make your music any better or any worse, so choosing your composer on that factor is both sexist and stupid.
TwentyPercentDash, except that's not what he did. And even if he did, until it's more equal, that is exactly the thing to do if you want equality. You need to be extreme in order to push things into better balance. The ONLY way to get real shit done in this world.
George Daugherty, who gives a shit if the gender balance isn't equal when you tally up all the people who score movies? What would that even accomplish? Forcing an equal number of genders among composers won't make movies better. I want merit. I want the best person for the job. I want amazing music no matter who makes it. As for the second part of your comment- Oh do tell. What Dan Golding was suggesting in his video if not forced equality of outcome? If I'm wrong, then what was he suggesting? He marvel's at the composers skill, and then undermines it all at the very end by saying someone with a vagina would be able to score the movie better. Not someone with better composing skills; not someone more intimate with the source material of Wonder Woman; he wants someone with a vagina. As if vaginas grant you magical composing powers. It's absurd.
You're being a little stupid. Has very little to do with women composers. It has more to do with Wonder Woman specifically being scored by a woman. All the other films could be composed by anybody, that doesn't matter. That's it. And his is not forced equality of outcome. It's forced equality of OPPORTUNITY. There's a HUGE difference between the two. The best person for the job? Merit? Has NEVER happened, ever, in this industry and is VERY RARE in human history. Just very, very rare. If you want that reality, you're going to have to FORCE equality of opportunity down people's throats to FORCE merit to happen. Because if you don't, Merit will NEVER happen.
I remember when watching Batman vs Superman and that theme suddenly burst out when Wayne discovers the picture of Wonder Woman during WW1. I was "wow !!! what is is THAT ?!" That sudden burst of primitive, primeval, vibrant music, that banshee scream ! It was out of this world, and so right ! ANd when Diana finally appears as WOnder Woman, with that same theme, it just was perfect. And it is truly smart that in Wonder Woman Gregson-Williams took his time to reintroduce that theme, but incorporated it very subtly, in a more subdued way, from the start of the movie until finally she comes into her own after crossing no-man's land. That was brilliant, and added to the near perfection of that movie.
laz kar Elfman was replaced as the composer last June. He had several months to work on the score. He made only two or three new motifs and either revived old themes (Batman and Superman) or copied existing ones (Hulk and Avengers). Look at Michael Giacchino, who was replaced as Rogue One's composer in September 2016. He reprised old themes sparingly and composed multiple new motifs, and had half as much time to make the score as Elfman did.
I enjoyed the music analysis of this as I never realized it was the same theme played differently and I always wondered why I get goosebumps everytime that music comes up
It's utterly stupid that this movie did not get any nominations let alone Rupert not being even considered as a potential nominee. His work was remarkable, than any of the other movies I've seen.
This is interesting, I’ve been doing this the breakdowns of some of my own dance music for years. I always thought it became more dynamic and made the song unique. Really interesting stuff
I'm not sure if gender really makes a difference in writing music, perhaps a different perspective might offer something when writing lyrics but for something more abstract like non-vocal sounds I doubt it makes much of a difference.
Like with every art, it does. The way a woman and a man perceive a particular feeling is differen; obviously it is different from person to person as a whole, but it's made even more obvious when they are from a different sex. As such, any media seeking to transcribe the said feelings will give a very unique result. Unless the film studio is unhappy and ask for something way more conventional - which is what would most likely happen.
Maybe not, but Wonder Woman 2 would be a good opportunity to give a less known, but talented, female composer a spotlight in a very male-dominated industry.
Philip Cardillo, but then you're hiring based on gender, which is sexist. Why is it that people are demanding a female crew on Wonder Woman? Is it because the main character is a woman? By that logic, let's demand an all-male crew for films with a male lead. See how fucked up that sounds?
The Question- There's nothing special about Wonder Woman. There's been plenty of female film-makers, as well as plenty of strong female characters in action movies. Terminator, Hunger Games, Alien, Brave, Frozen, Divergent, Mad Max Fury Road, the 3 newest Star Wars films. People keep acting like it's a cinematic accomplishment to have a woman as a strong powerful lead, when it's been happening forever. Go back in time to the earliest films of cinema: Wizard of Oz and Gone with the Wind had strong female main characters. Wonder Woman is not revolutionary, and Patty Jenkins isn't either. For example, people got upset that Patty wasn't up for a Golden Globe in Directing. But if we all took a step back and looked at the history of the Globes, not a SINGLE Super Hero film has EVER been nominated for Best Director. Not even The Dark Knight. And yet people still falsely cried "Sexism!" Why are you stopping at Composer? Should the storyboard artist be female as well? How many amazing female Lighting Technicians are out there who could have been hired instead? How about Camera Operator? Gaffer? It's so arbitrary and random to demand a female composer, and ignore all the other important roles. The truth is that it's sexist to demand such a thing. Hire the best person for the job, and ignore their gender. The Hair and Make-Up team in films are female dominated. Why aren't people up in arms about that? The Costume Designer field is also female-dominated. Why aren't people demanding more male hires to make it even? See what I mean? Different people make different life choices, and you'll never have a perfect distribution of genders in a Meritocracy. If you had a rule to force the ratio to be 50/50, you'd shut out a bunch of great costume designers on the basis of their gender. And that's sexist.
Even Hans scoring 1984, didn't save it :( What a shame to have such talent by both in creating the theme, all of Harry's work, then a sequel with not much to place to move because of the terrible story.
The video was great until you pulled the gender card... It has nothing to do with the composer being male or female, skill is skill regardless of gender. A skillful composer can be either a man or a woman, this argument does not stand as it is a fallacy.
Glad to see someone sane here. The music doesn't "get better" if it's composed by a man or a woman. It gets better when talented people apply their craft into it, regardless of their gender.
i don't think he meant to say that the music itself would be better if there had been a female composer. surely the message he was trying to get across in "pulling the gender card" was that a movie with such a strong message of female empowerment would have been a great place to celebrate talented and worthy women who often don't get the same kind of chance men do in the industry, but are capable of just as much (if not more!)
Laura He pointed out that there are women that compose, so its not like this is a new thing. How do you say something is perfect and then be like, "oh but it wasn't a woman" I personally had no clue, nor did I assume the gender of the composer, it was good and I liked it. Nuff said. (Can I use a Stan Lee quote on a DC thing? =p) Wonder Woman was also a great movie because of the lack of pushing diversity just for diversity sake, instead they thought, hey, lets make a good movie. So they got what they thought were the best people for the job. I'm sorry that some of those people had penises.
If you're not thinking past the simple ratings of the movie - yes, you can have a film that lacks diversity and is good. However if you take into context the historical significance of the movie, the way the movie will affect the public / the movements and important things happening in the real world, a nonprogressive movie is pointless in this day and age. I guess your opinion on this matter simply depends on whether you believe that media / film industry should be an active advocate for important movements in the real world, or the film industry should simply serve itself.
Laura Miller I think that the movies are here to entertain us. You want it to stand the test of time. If you make a movie like The Last Jedi, which is universally hated today, imagine what it will be like in a few years. Trying to push an agenda instead of making a good film is what leads to a bad movie. Lets take a look at comics for a second, the X-Men have always been about racism. They don't shove it in your face. They fit it into the story to make sense. There have always been black, women and minority superheroes since its inception in the 50s (slightly before, but you get it). So, when I hear people say, "This is the first woman superhero movie." I laugh. This isn't even the first Wonderwoman movie. You know what made this movie good? The fact that they didn't push their agenda at all. There were strong women in the movie. There were strong men in the movie. There were cowardly men in the movie. Did it seem like they were cowards just because? No, they were cowards because it fit the movie. The screen writer and director may have had an agenda that they snuck in, but it wasn't forced and therefore didn't seem like we were being scolded for it. Wonderwoman isn't my favorite female superhero, that goes to Scarlet Witch. She will, most likely, never have her own movie and I'm ok with that. She isn't a main character (kinda =p). She does have many points were she is the pivotal point in a story. Like when she completely erased 90% of all mutants because she accidentally wished it. Or when she changed reality and made Magneto no longer her father. She was created in 1964. She is the strongest mutant that exists (currently, the only one stronger is dead). So, if you want to blame Hollywood for their lack of women, don't blame superhero movies or the lack of progressiveness in them. We don't want to be told how bad we are just because we are men. Things should be done on merit and if you want to see more women in certain fields, maybe you should go into those fields. On that note, what about the hypocrisy of Natalie Portman who has a production company, goes to the emmy's and says there should be more women producers, but the only woman producer she has is herself and 5 (iirc) men. Why doesn't she hire more women? Simple, they aren't there.
The last part of this video is implying that the genius composer from wonder woman should be replaced by somebody simply because he was born a male and the other person was born a female. Replacing him would be dumb, replacing him for that reason specifically and implying his gender is the "one thing wrong" with the score is dumb AND sexist.
But don't you see? This is a movie about a FEMALE superhero (heroine) - a male composer simply could not do as good a job for this movie as a female composer. This is also why this movie absolutely HAD to be directed by a woman!! Of course I'm being sarcastic. Gender shouldn't be a factor (either way).
It's his video, it's his opinion, he can say whatever he want to say. In an age when everybody claims that their opinion sholdn't be silenced, there are a big hypocrisy when they don't like other people opinion.
Agreed. It was a pointless comment in an otherwise thoughtful video. I appreciate some of the aspects of the film score more that I didn't realize were there before. That being said, every time I hear that electric cello I want to vomit and never stop vomiting.
Chill you guys. Zimmer, Elfman, Gregson-Williams & co. won't go out of business because someone points out that there are female composers who maybe should get a little spotlight. Heck, female or otherwise, I'd love to see more diversity among the big movie composers in general. I listen to soundtracks a lot and I genuinely do love the work these guys do, but it feels like almost all the big gigs go to the same four or five dudes and some of them are getting a bit repetitive for it.
So, music critics shit all over Transformers, and the Dark Knight Trilogy that have consistent themes, that are mostly used appropriately, and in the case of Batman Begins, the themes actually are developed over the film, like with "Batcave" to "Backup". But a movie score that steals most of its music from Steve Jablonsky, Hans Zimmer inspirational tracks, and even Howard Shore's Return of the King with the ending music, is praised by you guys. Just for having the basics of a developing theme.
Superultramegaa LastName this is what hOllywood films works these days, WW was not at all praised for its incedible music theme(copy from or not as others also do it) it was praise for its overall films perspective and it really creates a history to Wonder Woman and ordinary Women all over the world as it shows justice and power in feminine way but not like male roles are weak and useless.. Just look at her supporting characters including Steve Trevor... Amazing work of act... It can't be unseen... If this movie is overrated then it is okay as it really brings a little history in Women's directed film as a female lead role...
Freddy Lalremtluanga Vuite I actually found a lot of similarity between WW theme and the Legend Of Tarzan movie theme , it seems odd but both those movies had some sort of similar theme , especially WW training theme and Tarzan swinging theme.
Arrival to Earth is my favorite piece and when it made a sudden reappearence in The Last Knight after, to the best of my knowledge, being absent for at least 3 movies, I damn near exploded with joy!
I find something funny here: at 2.08, the one note up part is the exact notes for Junkie XL's Batman theme, which you even here in "Is She With You" when it cuts back to Lois trying to get the spear.
Why does it matter what gender the composer is? Good music is good music and you don't need to drag a woman to score a film just because lolvagina. I'm female and frankly all this "we need women here, here and here just because" is getting so tiresome to hear. Just get a fitting composer that works well with the film and its director like they did in the movie discussed in this video. Simple.
Great video, keep up the work! I personally hated the original WW theme from BVS, and thought it was overly bombastic and lacking grace. It just felt tacky. But aside from that, I found myself actually enjoying the score for Wonder Woman, and thought it was one of this year's more interesting and refreshing cinematic scores, and it managed to convey Diana's growth over the course of the movie.
This is just speculation, but I know that especially in directing, the tone of the movie is generally quite different depending on the gender of the director. Of course each director has his or her own specific way of directing, but between different sexes, there does exist a difference. Perhaps, just like with the director in WW, a female composer might have a different take on a musical score. I definitely understand the "best person for the job" mentality, but I also understand that the "best" is not easily quantifiable. What makes someone the "best?" Is it experience? Is it technique? Is it a personal quirk? Is it culture? Different people bring different qualities to a job, and so saying, "the best person for the job should get the job" can be (but is not necessarily) arbitrary. That's not to say that they should choose someone bad at the job, but that in a scene full of experts, one person isn't necessarily better than the next. Is Hans Zimmer a better composer than John Williams? They're different, and so it depends on what you want your soundtrack to sound like. If you wanted a electric, upbeat soundtrack, would you want Williams, or if you wanted an excited orchestral and more classical sound, would you want Zimmer?
because of representation mate. We can say "the job should go to the best one for it" all we want but we can't deny that some people are not even in the running for that job because of their gender race sexuality.
I agree that the motif that permeates this score is used well, but I have to disagree with the part about the BvS WW theme played in the middle of WW. I remember watching it and noticing the feeling of it being out of place. It came in and out weird, it was at a weird point in the movie and it never felt like it noticeably progressed.
I agree. The "disruptive" theme might have worked in BvS (and I feel it didn't) where WW just came out of nowhere. But I don't see any build up ever preparing me for it to be a non-disruptive part of the score but a natural progression. When I first heard it in the fight scene it really took me out the movie. It just sounds like it doesn't belong (again, something that might have worked in BvS, but not in WW's own movie).
I disagree completely. There was nothing "disruptive" about it in that scene. It doesn't have to play only when she appears suddenly. It worked just as well with the pause before the fight scene.
I agree. My wife hasn't seen BvS or heard the WW theme b4 and when she saw the scene where the WW theme comes in all obnoxious sounding, she said aloud "What is happening?!" I think RGW's score is much better than Zimmer's WW theme.
commenting channel. how so?? her theme even shifts to kryptonian theme by near end of the track, when Clark senses that Lois is in trouble. Is well molded.
So I know there's already a lot of debate and overdone outrage over what is just 1 or 2 sentences in the video, but I wanted to throw in something a little less reactionary with the hopes you read it, Dan. First of all I just wanted to say that this is another great video you've made, I always enjoy hearing what someone with your level of knowledge has to say on scores, and you and a couple other youtubers talking about this subject has definitely inspired me to look more and more into film scoring (I'm even thinking about doing it myself one day). That said, concerning the statement about wanting to hear a woman director, I don't necessarily agree or disagree (I just want to hear a good score in the end) and I respect your opinion, your right to have it, and (more importantly) express it, but perhaps this isn't a good "place" to do it. First of all, in this video the comment felt totally out of place. The video is about musical idetity, themes motifs and bombasticism (bombastic-ness? I don't know) and the whole essay sticks to those themes, and then suddenly your closing statement is "oh also this should have been done by a woman" (*cut to black*). Anoher important point is that this is your closing statement so to speak. It's literally the last thought you leave us with, it's essentially your conclusion, and it really takes away from all the great ideas and points you presented in the rest of the video. These are obviously far from the only reasons you've seen so much knee jerk reaction, but it certainly played a part. Another, perhaps bigger one of those reasons, (and something certainly in a grey area) is that really I feel like the comment doesn't just feel out of place in the video but on your channel as a whole. Now again I really want to be clear that I absolutely respect your right to own and express your opinion, and I'm not even sure I totally disagree. however, if you look at the current political climate in the west (which I'm sure is where at least 90% your viewers come from) saying that the score should have been written by a woman is a political statement. You may not have intended it to be, but certainly that's the first way it will be taken now by most people. And to me this is the crux of the issue; I just don't feel like most of your audience comes here to discuss or hear about politics - I know I certainly don't. I hope you'll believe me when I say It's not even that in this instance it was an idea that I'm not sure I support - you could have made a political statement I agree with and I still would have felt that maybe it was better left unsaid. I already have so many places I hear about politics, on twitter, on TV in real life, and even on youtube. When I come to this channel that's the farthest thing from my mind - I really just want to think and learn about music and storytelling - bringing politics into the mix makes that hard(er)d to do. Anyway ultimately it's you'er channel, and I nor anyone else can tell you what to do with it, we can only make suggestions and tell you what we want to see or hear. So with that said I hope you'll take what I said into consideration. (also sorry this turned out so long (also also you'll have to excuse spelling or grammar mistakes I really don't want to have to spellcheck this monster of a comment lol))
Well stated, Mabinogi. I felt the same way about the closing statement, but also feel tremendous respect for his insight and postings. The ending just left me feeling a bit... off. Great music is great music, regardless of the gender of the composer.
He didn't say it should be written by a woman. I think we all agree we need a good film and that comes from good work done male or female. However, Wonder Woman is unique in cinematic history for its financial success in portraying a female lead. This is worth mentioning in a video concerning this film. We all think a man could score the sequel just as well as a woman? So why so revolutionary to say a woman could score it just as well as a man. And yet apparently it is. Sometimes it's just nice to be brave and say what's on your mind. There was nothing wrong with what he said. Astonishing how fragile some people are.
*"Only one thing could've made it better: In a world where film music is clearly a male-dominated industry, but where amazing composers like* [insert names that I sadly have to admit I've never heard of before, or at least never noticed their names despite hearing their music] *do exist, I'd like to hear what a women does with the next Wonder Woman film.* That is the direct quote. All you folks deviating from that in your comments, take note. That being said, Who the fuck really listened to the music in films like Jackie, loved it and wanted to find out the composer, and honestly thought "OH IT's A WOMAN COMPOSER"?
You had my attention until around the 4:05 mark. The best composer for the film in question should get the job, regardless of whether that person is male or female. Hiring a woman to handle the next film's score in no way guarantees an improvement to the score, nor does it indicate any automatic uniqueness. If a female composer is given the task, I expect her to have earned it because of her talent and not because of her gender. If she does, great. If she doesn't, that's fine too. Prioritizing a composer's musical "voice" (for lack of a better word) based on gender is just asinine, especially after you spent the entire video discussing what "smart" job Gregson-Williams did. Logically, he's the composer who should continue to work on these films. I can tell you as someone who grew up competing in piano competitions and playing in recitals all over my region of the U.S., gender does not affect musical ability or even style of play (with the exception being very young children, and even then it's not ability but rather just a difference in priority). I find it very hard to believe that composing would differ in that sense.
Cello, violin general string organs make themes awesome. Seriously, the violins on DBS when UI is achieved, WW theme, string organs at another level of epicness
Like the vid but I'll never believe that the original from BvS should ever have been Wonder Woman's theme. There's just too much desperation in it. For me, it was meant to be Doomsday's music. The problem is that that version of Doomsday never lived up to how good the music actually was.
Dude, even if Dooms did live up.. He's an alien, in need of something from Jean-Michel Jarre or Kraftwerk or someones really wayout from the corners of the Milky-Way
The thing is, what was the music trying to convey at that point? I mean, we know it now as the Wonder Woman music, but it played throughout that final fight in BvS. Think about the emotions the music is trying to convey. It just doesn't match up to say that it's Wonder Woman's theme.
I think the theme portrayed WW in the best way possible , the mysterious god level force from the past , one that people could love but also fear , while the WW movie basically portrayed it as more heroic and hence blend in reducing the mystery from that theme , it fits for a WW fight theme , specifically fight , while Superman's theme is just everything!
This was great! You’re right, of course. Every time I see WW anything, that riff cuts through with those banging drums! I love Zimmer, he never fails producing sticking themes. Inception anybody?
I liked that they connected her theme with Batman's theme (when Wayne Industries van appears). We saw that in BvS, of course (Lois running and falling like a dumb), but i see Wonder Woman's (complete) theme as a Trinity team, because it's also connected with the Superman's one.
Why wouldn't it be obnoxious? You're telling me, a woman with a glow-in-the-dark rope and skimpy golden war armor in the middle of a World War isn't any less obnoxious than the instrument that plays such a theme?
Matthew Thomason So,,, why not? If a theme is that good in a fantasy setting, nonetheless hummable, I would like it to be as obnoxious as the genre is. Star Wars has an obnoxious brassy fanfare to begin to emulate the idea of exploring the Western/New Frontier, so why can't more movies be obnoxious?
Let me get this straight. You're praising a film's soundtrack for making use of a leitmotif and transforming that motif according to context? Are you suggesting that that is something to be praised now, never mind the actual execution? Even though this has been standard procedure for Hollywood scores for ages? Saying that "Wonder Woman contains some of the most complex film music of any contemporary superhero" is completely meaningless, considering that, generally speaking, superhero movies have extremely unremarkable soundtracks. This film is actually no exception. Even if we grant that it is, speaking in terms of superhero movies, in my opinion its soundtrack is still not particularly praiseworthy or musically interesting in any way. An interesting modern score would ditch the Hollywood orchestra, or, at the bare minimum, bring some new sounds into the mix (and NOT a freakin' electric cello), and be a lot more subtle in its approach to themes and structure.
Totally agree. I personally feel Hans Zimmer's score on Dark Knight is a better superhero score. My personal favourite is the Lord of the rings score. here is a fantastic break down on it by one of my fav youtubers ruclips.net/video/e7BkmF8CJpQ/видео.html
I never knew that those themes were essentially the same notes but one note is higher than the other.
This is a common thing though, I don't get why it's labeled as something unique about this movie. Game of Thrones has this in spades. There's probably 30+ different renditions of the main theme, varying in notes to create a different score.
Same goes up for Lex Luthor theme, its the Man of Steel theme in reverse.
Yes ladies and gents, and than in Justice League we get this shit OST from Danny Elfman, please dont let him get anywhere near DC ever again.
You should watch the lord of the ring's music analysis. It's awesome.
"This is a common thing though, I don't get why it's labeled as something unique about this movie. Game of Thrones has this in spades"
And GoT has very memorable music too. I never heard him saying it's unique to this movie. I heard him states some of the technique used in this movie to enhance the music. There's probably no technique that's unique to any movie, but by talking about what worked and what didn't, we still learn.
leit motif
Wonder woman theme is the most memorable superhero theme in a LONG time. Possibly ever.
I'd say Superman's theme (from the Donner movies) gets the ever. That or the one from Burton's Batman. Wonder Woman's isn't bad, definitely more memorable than all the other recent offerings, but not in the same league as those two.
So the Avengers theme just doesn't exist?
@@jamesdo8988 a single hero theme.. Not a team theme lol.
Nope 80s Superman and Tim Burton's Batman themes are utterly unforgettable. Darth Vader's Imperial March is the most epic ever. This theme is utter trash in comparison. It's about as cheap as her costume looks and a tittling around of same three notes is a totally lazy under the guise of a 7/8 time signature being mistaken as some sort of great writing.
ruclips.net/video/ptx5blJK-s4/видео.html
I think it is smart that Rupert still had the WW theme in different ways. A more heroic kind of way, a mysterious way, and a more sorrow way. And of course, the badass version by Hans. Instead of just using the same score by Hans all the time, which is a great score for WW of course, I like that Rupert made his own version of the WW. You can still hear Hans' theme in it, but Rupert made different styles of it.
Rupert certainly made a better and more memorable soundtrack than mediocre Elfman.
Its also cheaper. So they dont need to keep paying Zimmer and JXL. Its money saving. And clever.
Watching this analysis made me realise there are similarities between this and the music of Metal Gear Solid (which makes sense as Rupert's brother composed those games).
And then what happened to this great theme and story in Justice League? I loved the Wonder Woman score and then it just seemed to go away. Can you do a breakdown of the Justice League movie score?
Caden Presley I
Wonder Woman's theme is utter perfection.
1000% agreed Pat
It stayed with me even after the headache of BvS
And it took a few seconds for Danny Elfman to ruin it all :(
So good
Hamman Samuel watch Wonder Woman after man of steel and before bvs. It made me like bvs much more.
I was wondering why, despite my love of both movie scores and superhero films, the Wonder Woman score is the only one I've consistently listened to and enjoyed. Thank you for the reasoning behind it!
You're completely right. When I first watched the film in theatres I was disappointed when I didn't hear it in the first act, but then when it finally came, it was glorious. The perfect moment to showcase it.
And then in Justice League they completely forgot about her theme
Adrien Denèle they used it once when she saved the place from the bomb attack. Wish it was used more
It's in there but grossly and lazily transposed into a major key. It's very poorly done especially compared to WW
Verland Coker What?! No. Dumb.
TheWilczak -- ??? Why are you disagreeing with Verland? He's right. They did use her theme, but only very limitedly and not very well. (Compare/contrast with the rehash of Batman's theme from '89, which they used more prominently.) WW's theme *is* poorly done, by comparison. Why do you disagree with that?
Danny Elfman's work there was trash, completely unmemorable.
the media kept saying "Oh lol he did Avengers Age of Ultron"
wait, Age of Ultron had a different theme? pffff
ONE OF THE MOST ICONIC THEMES OF THE CENTURY.
that was Godfather's theme.
Godfather was last century.
nah
I think the Avengers theme is pretty memorable.
You seriously comparing that generic shit to this?
You had me right up onto the end. Doesn't matter if a man or a woman is composing, it only matters who is composing. Gender doesn't make music, minds do.
TheVoidRose Bravo!
I felt the exact same way. His ending statement that the one thing to make it better was something based off of gender translates to the soundtrack being worse because of the gender of the person that made it.
Joao, I want you to go to 4:00, his exact words before he prefaces the idea is, "Only one thing could make it better..."
I understand how you could miss that, but in the end, your comment is wrong.
Yeah, you right. Sex/gender really doesn't matter about this subject
@Joao, nothing to be sorry about, it was a mistake. You were right about it being an opinion of his though and that could be delved into a bit deeper.
It’s as if the music is developing and growing with Diana as she develops from Diana, the innocent princess, to the empowering Wonder Woman that she has become.
my wife and i loved this video. I didn’t even catch the depth of the composers genius
Wow 4 million subscribers
This theme sends shivers through my body everytime I hear it.
And did they continue this kind of thought behind Wonder Woman's, Superman's and Batman's theme in Justice League? No? Oh yeah I forgot, Danny Elfman just wanted a symphonic Wonder Woman theme for like 20 seconds and then just play shuffle on his spotify playlist of his own and Williams's work. Great.
Yeah, fuck Elfman. What a loss to any movie now.
Not just Williams. You hear snippets of Avengers, Ant-man, Hulk and Guardians themes, also.
Why blame him alone? Isn't it fair to put it on the directors too?
I totally agree. I love the motifs in MoS, BvS, and WW and they were just thrown away, more or less, for Justice League. Like, why was the Burton Batman theme in there? What purpose did it serve? Batman had two great musical motifs from BvS already - his theme that's sort of like the child-Bruce theme and then his theme as a broken-down, cynical adult who feels there are no more heroes left. Superman had that great main theme from MOS, his Clark Kent theme, and then the Krytonian lullaby theme (the track "Goodbye My Son" from MOS) as well.
Megajon you're right dude, blame Joss Whedon! Zack Snyder had junkie xl originally score this movie, as a matter of fact you can hear his theme for JL on RUclips and it's leagues (no pun intended) above what they got going now.
Here is the cool part, the wonder woman theme is a by product of Christopher Nolan's the Dark Knight and shows how that movie continues to be a genre changing super hero movie. The theme of the Joker was a point of consternation for Nolan and Zimmer until Zimmer had Tina Guo, the amazing celloist, experiment with her electric cello and came to the Jokers theme. Later when working on Wonder Woman for BvS he remembered her and what she could do and blammo, kick was rock cello for WW. So thank you Nolan, and especially thank the wonderfully talented Tina Guo.
I would love to see what Lisa Gerard would do if she got a super hero film. That said, this is my favorite hero theme since Tim Burton's Batman or the early 90s Flash show.
It never fails to give me goose bumps, raises the hair on my arms and legs. Watching Tina Guo woman play it is a numinous and blood tingling experience.
I remember the Spiderman movies from 2002 - 2007 had an AMAZING theme that was reworked into different renditions, depending on the mood of the scenes. Just stumbled upon the theme a couple of days ago and it sent shivers down my spine. Basicly, Danny Elfman (and probably other composers as well) had this idea 15 years ago.
Tina Guo also had a great input in the creation of the Wonder Woman epic theme. If I recall rightly, Hans Zimmer wanted to collaborate her after watching her YT videos. He took a lot of inspiration from her. It's no wonder, Zimmer loves to give woman voices in his music. So now I really perceive WW's theme as an hybrid of Zimmer, JL Junkie and Tina Guo.This theme really brings out the best of them all.
Similar building/adding/focus was done for MoS theme, which is why they are both so freaking perfect! Love them both!!
Very insightful. Wonder Woman has one of the best original scores I have heard in a long time.
An excellent video ruined by people complaining in the comments, RUclips in a nutshell. How dare someone suggest that a woman get a job in Hollywood... it would definitely be great to have more female crew members next time, but nobody is saying to trod over men to achieve that.
Literally, the salt over one person saying "It'd be cool to hear a female composer in the first big female-led superhero film" is ridiculous. Great vid, Dan
Yes, but to be fair, saying "It'd be cool to hear a female composer in the first big female-led superhero film" is pretty silly, too. I don't think anyone would complain about a woman composing for a movie about a man. They did the right thing by choosing a composer without regard to gender. If they would have happened to choose a woman, that would have been kind of neat, but not for any logical reason beyond the sense of symmetry. ...Now you have me wondering whether Superman had male makeup artists.
Owen Arkley ignore them. They are just trying to get attention. Pitiful.
People are under the impression that Dan meant firing the current composer and hiring a female one. I can see why it sounded like that ("only one thing could make it better," poor choice of wording), but I don't believe that's what it was. Sometimes composers are wrapped up in another project when production starts on a sequel to a film they were involved with, so another composer takes their spot, works with established leitmotif, and adds their own bits and touches. If such an occasion presented itself, I think people would be interested in a female composer's take on a female superhero as a matter of fact, rather than a matter of bigotry and male exclusion.
Also in case everyone somehow forgot: ruclips.net/video/tI2ASp0f7GU/видео.html
This video is basically a guide on,“How to slowly adjust your characters theme song to match your characters Growth and progression”.....and I love it😍,very useful to newbies who are doing music for their own Superhero characters.
There are actually people upset that he said he would like to hear what a women could do with the next wonderwoman movie, huh. Thats enough internet for today, this shit gets worse every day.
Great video mate, keep it up.
Chewz>..I doubt those are "PEOPLE" getting upset
George Barrett wow, so edgy
lol, it was unnecessary, Those are great composers I'm sure, but just less of them. Why must there be a need of 50 50 female male ratio? What about Nursing why isn't there a call for Nurses to be 50 50? Or Any other female dominates fields?
Because that's the fucking irony, dude. Who the fuck cares if it is a woman or a man? Why do people have the urge to push this "A WOMAN DID IT"? Why does it matter what gender they are?
Ron Zhou Oh, but there is a call for exactly that. It's just that western societies tend to bias men against taking those jobs, not only because they tend to pay worse, but also because they're viewed as "soft" or "unmanly" or some other toxic and contrafactual bullcrap. Also, please note that advocating for more representation does not necessarily mean 50 / 50. It could also mean 65 f /35 m for example, but the main takeaway is just "more representation" regardless of the specific numbers.
The more I read, watch, and study this film, the more I appreciate it. I still haven't found a love for the penultimate battle sequence, but the rest of the film is exactly what I love about comic book films. It's witty, it's exciting, it's heartfelt, it's beautifully shot and choreographed, and above all, it sores. Films like this always excite me and give me the shivers. It's the same feeling I had when I first watched the Fellowship of the Ring when the fellowship fought in the mines of Moria. Or in Toy Story when Buzz falls with style. Or in Unbreakable when David Dunn realises his potential and saves those two girls. Or in The Incredibles when Elastigirl saves her two kids from the rocket. Or in Terminator 2 when he says, "Come with me if you want to live." Or in Casino Royale when Bond quips to Vesper, "That's because you know what I can do with my little finger." Or in The Avengers when Hulk punches the shit out of that Chitauri Leviathan. Or in Rocky at the end of his fight. Or in Shawshank Redemption when Andy crawls through a river of shit and comes out clean on the other side. Or in Schindler's List when Schindler sobs as he is surrounded by all those he saved. Or in The Matrix when Neo realises he's the One. Or in Sunset Boulevard when Norma Desmond goes in for her close-up...
And then Elfman ruined it by playing it with fucking horns
Batman Elfman fucker
She went from warrior style to grandma style
Batman Ikr?
Then after the Batman, he'll be like "Wonder Woman only has one theme." LOL.
That man ruined the glory of our beloved heroes.
LMAO FACTS
Wait. Wait. *Wait*. Man of Steel sound track was beyond amazing. That music brought me to the edge of tears.
That's true. It's has a really good OST.
The OST of DC movies stick...
I can't remember any music from Marvel Movies, aside from Guardians of the Galaxy...
What about
Spider Man, spider Man, he does what ever spider Man does
Marvel more copypaste the soundtrack ok
Whatever you think about Man of Steel, the music was iconic.
The biggest musical mistake of Justice League was not using the MoS theme at all.
This should have been nominated for an Oscar-along with many other performances from this film.
Wait, they have electric cello?! I need to learn this.
This is a really good breakdown of the theme.I personally enjoyed and found it very iconic. And it just hit me that people never really talk much about themes from Marvel movies....i wonder why
I loved Rupert Gregson-Williams' musical score, so see no good reason to replace him.
I honestly felt that the score should have been nominated for an Oscar. Everything you have mentioned is what I love about the score/soundtrack.
RGW and Tina Guo both work for Hans Zimmer's Remote Control Productions, btw.
Yeah. What a shame.
TheWilczak why? cause he gave them a job so you can enjoy their work and movie scores??
I remember going to the cinema watching Wonder Woman with so much hype for the sountrack because I absolutely loved it in BvS. And it did not disappoint, the buildup to the moment were we here the BvS tune for the first time is great and I am fascinated by the fact that a lot of the other soundtracks are also different versions of this theme, even though you sometimes don't quite notice it.
It is great music and I could not care less what sex the person who created it was. Likewise the reason I liked the story wasn't because it had a great female lead but rather because it was a great story.
Can you talk about how they somehow continued this amazing vibe with the Cello and violin rendition in the trailer for wonder woman 1984 i love how it carries the mysterious but then badass and into triumphant vibe and then making that whole thing feel like the 80s
Batman TAS had the best music, especially with mask of the phantasm the tracks made by Shirley walker outshine this heavily.
Fucking awesome movie, but you're right Dan, it'd be nice to have Diana's theme be composed by another woman. I'm still very glad we got such a strong lead actress and such a great director. Well done, ladies.
They applied the same thing in Steven Universe where each character's theme is presented by an instrument unique to them. When characters fuse both instruments play together and create a song unique to thay fusion character.
Cool stuff~ Love how you pointed this out with Wonder Woman :)
Cassie Barns
My favorite fusion theme is Sardonyx or Opal's! What's yours?!
Cassie Barns hmm what is Steven universe? oh that show who has 6 month fucking LONG HIATUSES!!?! sorry salty
Tina Guo is literally one of my favorite cellists. She has such a fiery personality that really shows off in her passionate music.
Man of Steel did the exact same thing. You do not hear Superman's theme until the very end of the film. You do, however hear it echoed throughout the rest of the film in tracks like "Look to the Stars", "Sent here for a Reason", "Flight", and (one of my favorites) "This is Clark Kent".
As for that woman composer would make it better claim. That seems entirely baseless to me.
BowToWard86 His theme plays when he first takes flight after getting the suit.
Batman v Superman
That was "Flight". His theme is "What are you going to do when you are not saving the world?".
BowToWard86 I know what his theme is called but I thought it plays when he flew as well. Guess I was wrong.
Wonder Woman soundtrack is good but Man of steel is still the best in dceu. Imo Hans Zimmer did a very hard work and went god mode on Man of steel it was fucking perfection
He didn't say it would be better, he said "I'd love to see what a woman would do musically for the next WW film". Which could be worse, depending on who would be hired, but there's no inherent stating that either gender is superior - only that female composers STILL have a hard time of it in the movie industry in general, and this could be a nice way for THAT glass ceiling to take a crack or two.
Wonder Woman's theme is absolutely perfect all along the movie, it gives me shivers whenever I hear it
And then... They butchered this theme in Justice League. It went from super badass to grandma's day at the mall.
Well Said
This was a great video. As a serious collector of film music going on shy of 30 years, I wish more videos were done like this. Film music is not an easy task and its very under appreciated. There are many great female film composers, although I do miss the late and great Shirley Walker.
Thanks for the video :)
I personally don't care whether a woman scores a film or not. I mean, what does it matter whether a movie about a female is scored by a female? If they do good work, let them work I say. If they happen to be a woman, it changes nothing to me.
Tina Guo!! (I think that's how you spell it)
Dan, this is unbelievable. Keep up the excellent work!
i feel like pressing a thousand time the like button, great video
Great video!!! I love the Wonder Woman score and you have perfectly explained why even though her main theme was done by another composer, it still fits into the score grated for the film! I loved how the took that hardcore cello piece and then manipulated to create the movie's score, it's very clever.
Also I 100% agree with you on the woman composer thing. I have noticed that most composers are male and I think it would be great to have a woman work on the music for the next wonder woman movie. Wonder woman has been about breaking glass ceilings in the filming industry and it would be great to see it continue that trend with its expansion.
This is what makes DC so great. Sure it may be full of misses and not everyone's cup of tea but the production, tone, the theme and settings are all superior and full of character. Not Marvel's cookie cutter strategies
Loved the interpretation of the music. The subtlety of how the music changes is awesome indeed!
I doubt many got annoyed by him saying women should be given the chance to score films. The thing is that the way he said it, it sounded like women should be given the job, simply on the merit of them being women. In which case, no, that's equally as stupid as not giving it to them for being women. There is a middle ground in which the best composer gets the job. If that is a woman so be it.
_"There is a middle ground in which the best composer gets the job. If that is a woman so be it."_
If that were his argument no one would be complaining. The thing is, he is explicitly arguing for the opposite.
MG1995 I must have misinterpreted or misunderstood something then, could you explain what you heard and through which words, please?
What is the point in repeating his exact words, when you can just as easily watch the video?
+raider968
Inequality of outcome is not the same as inequality of opportunity. Or do you happen to think the NBA is incredibly racist towards white people?
To suggest that a gender imbalance is proof of discrimination of any sort, is asinine and dishonest of the highest order. There aren't as many women in composition because there aren't many women choosing that career. End of story. Stop looking for discrimination where none exists.
raider968 haha advocating female superiority huh... damn you guys are insecure. Saying that you would like to see what a female composer does for wonder woman is little more than pontificating on a different take for the score. I swear some guys spend more time stressing over the presence of feminism than women do.
the music never fails to give me goosebumps everytime i hear it and i was almost kicked out the movie theater after i threw my hands up in the air shouting "YES" once it first came on
Dan: *States the objective, easily verifiable fact than film is a disproportionately male dominated industry despite many highly talented female creatives.*
Men: I have never felt more attacked in my entire life how dare you.
That's not what people are upset over. They're upset because he talks about how amazing and incredible the current film composer is, and then he suddenly wants to throw the composer to the side because the he doesn't have a vagina. It's utterly retarded. Vaginas don't make your music any better or any worse, so choosing your composer on that factor is both sexist and stupid.
Are you OK?
TwentyPercentDash, except that's not what he did. And even if he did, until it's more equal, that is exactly the thing to do if you want equality. You need to be extreme in order to push things into better balance. The ONLY way to get real shit done in this world.
George Daugherty, who gives a shit if the gender balance isn't equal when you tally up all the people who score movies? What would that even accomplish? Forcing an equal number of genders among composers won't make movies better. I want merit. I want the best person for the job. I want amazing music no matter who makes it. As for the second part of your comment- Oh do tell. What Dan Golding was suggesting in his video if not forced equality of outcome? If I'm wrong, then what was he suggesting? He marvel's at the composers skill, and then undermines it all at the very end by saying someone with a vagina would be able to score the movie better. Not someone with better composing skills; not someone more intimate with the source material of Wonder Woman; he wants someone with a vagina. As if vaginas grant you magical composing powers. It's absurd.
You're being a little stupid. Has very little to do with women composers. It has more to do with Wonder Woman specifically being scored by a woman. All the other films could be composed by anybody, that doesn't matter. That's it. And his is not forced equality of outcome. It's forced equality of OPPORTUNITY. There's a HUGE difference between the two. The best person for the job? Merit? Has NEVER happened, ever, in this industry and is VERY RARE in human history. Just very, very rare.
If you want that reality, you're going to have to FORCE equality of opportunity down people's throats to FORCE merit to happen. Because if you don't, Merit will NEVER happen.
I remember when watching Batman vs Superman and that theme suddenly burst out when Wayne discovers the picture of Wonder Woman during WW1. I was "wow !!! what is is THAT ?!" That sudden burst of primitive, primeval, vibrant music, that banshee scream ! It was out of this world, and so right ! ANd when Diana finally appears as WOnder Woman, with that same theme, it just was perfect.
And it is truly smart that in Wonder Woman Gregson-Williams took his time to reintroduce that theme, but incorporated it very subtly, in a more subdued way, from the start of the movie until finally she comes into her own after crossing no-man's land.
That was brilliant, and added to the near perfection of that movie.
Nice video! I love Wonder Woman's soundtracks
i always get chills when that music plays whenever wonder woman shows up
Cue Danny Elfman...
ThereisnoDistrict12 that hack
laz kar Elfman was replaced as the composer last June. He had several months to work on the score. He made only two or three new motifs and either revived old themes (Batman and Superman) or copied existing ones (Hulk and Avengers).
Look at Michael Giacchino, who was replaced as Rogue One's composer in September 2016. He reprised old themes sparingly and composed multiple new motifs, and had half as much time to make the score as Elfman did.
LordStarscream100 Danny Elfman said once that he doesn't like to compose music from earlier films and that the director chooses what to do.
Oh the irony...
Doesnt stop the fact that Elfman is a shit composer to begin with.
I enjoyed the music analysis of this as I never realized it was the same theme played differently and I always wondered why I get goosebumps everytime that music comes up
It's utterly stupid that this movie did not get any nominations let alone Rupert not being even considered as a potential nominee. His work was remarkable, than any of the other movies I've seen.
*facepalm*
Why the end was just like Dragon ball z
who said Dragon Ball Z was bad?
This is interesting, I’ve been doing this the breakdowns of some of my own dance music for years. I always thought it became more dynamic and made the song unique. Really interesting stuff
I'm not sure if gender really makes a difference in writing music, perhaps a different perspective might offer something when writing lyrics but for something more abstract like non-vocal sounds I doubt it makes much of a difference.
Like with every art, it does. The way a woman and a man perceive a particular feeling is differen; obviously it is different from person to person as a whole, but it's made even more obvious when they are from a different sex.
As such, any media seeking to transcribe the said feelings will give a very unique result.
Unless the film studio is unhappy and ask for something way more conventional - which is what would most likely happen.
Claire, the director Patty Jenkins still tells the composer what she wants to hear. So a woman is still making those decisions.
Maybe not, but Wonder Woman 2 would be a good opportunity to give a less known, but talented, female composer a spotlight in a very male-dominated industry.
Philip Cardillo, but then you're hiring based on gender, which is sexist. Why is it that people are demanding a female crew on Wonder Woman? Is it because the main character is a woman? By that logic, let's demand an all-male crew for films with a male lead. See how fucked up that sounds?
The Question- There's nothing special about Wonder Woman. There's been plenty of female film-makers, as well as plenty of strong female characters in action movies. Terminator, Hunger Games, Alien, Brave, Frozen, Divergent, Mad Max Fury Road, the 3 newest Star Wars films. People keep acting like it's a cinematic accomplishment to have a woman as a strong powerful lead, when it's been happening forever. Go back in time to the earliest films of cinema: Wizard of Oz and Gone with the Wind had strong female main characters. Wonder Woman is not revolutionary, and Patty Jenkins isn't either.
For example, people got upset that Patty wasn't up for a Golden Globe in Directing. But if we all took a step back and looked at the history of the Globes, not a SINGLE Super Hero film has EVER been nominated for Best Director. Not even The Dark Knight. And yet people still falsely cried "Sexism!"
Why are you stopping at Composer? Should the storyboard artist be female as well? How many amazing female Lighting Technicians are out there who could have been hired instead? How about Camera Operator? Gaffer? It's so arbitrary and random to demand a female composer, and ignore all the other important roles. The truth is that it's sexist to demand such a thing. Hire the best person for the job, and ignore their gender.
The Hair and Make-Up team in films are female dominated. Why aren't people up in arms about that? The Costume Designer field is also female-dominated. Why aren't people demanding more male hires to make it even? See what I mean? Different people make different life choices, and you'll never have a perfect distribution of genders in a Meritocracy. If you had a rule to force the ratio to be 50/50, you'd shut out a bunch of great costume designers on the basis of their gender. And that's sexist.
Even Hans scoring 1984, didn't save it :( What a shame to have such talent by both in creating the theme, all of Harry's work, then a sequel with not much to place to move because of the terrible story.
The video was great until you pulled the gender card... It has nothing to do with the composer being male or female, skill is skill regardless of gender. A skillful composer can be either a man or a woman, this argument does not stand as it is a fallacy.
Glad to see someone sane here. The music doesn't "get better" if it's composed by a man or a woman. It gets better when talented people apply their craft into it, regardless of their gender.
i don't think he meant to say that the music itself would be better if there had been a female composer. surely the message he was trying to get across in "pulling the gender card" was that a movie with such a strong message of female empowerment would have been a great place to celebrate talented and worthy women who often don't get the same kind of chance men do in the industry, but are capable of just as much (if not more!)
Laura He pointed out that there are women that compose, so its not like this is a new thing. How do you say something is perfect and then be like, "oh but it wasn't a woman" I personally had no clue, nor did I assume the gender of the composer, it was good and I liked it. Nuff said. (Can I use a Stan Lee quote on a DC thing? =p) Wonder Woman was also a great movie because of the lack of pushing diversity just for diversity sake, instead they thought, hey, lets make a good movie. So they got what they thought were the best people for the job. I'm sorry that some of those people had penises.
If you're not thinking past the simple ratings of the movie - yes, you can have a film that lacks diversity and is good. However if you take into context the historical significance of the movie, the way the movie will affect the public / the movements and important things happening in the real world, a nonprogressive movie is pointless in this day and age. I guess your opinion on this matter simply depends on whether you believe that media / film industry should be an active advocate for important movements in the real world, or the film industry should simply serve itself.
Laura Miller
I think that the movies are here to entertain us. You want it to stand the test of time. If you make a movie like The Last Jedi, which is universally hated today, imagine what it will be like in a few years. Trying to push an agenda instead of making a good film is what leads to a bad movie. Lets take a look at comics for a second, the X-Men have always been about racism. They don't shove it in your face. They fit it into the story to make sense. There have always been black, women and minority superheroes since its inception in the 50s (slightly before, but you get it). So, when I hear people say, "This is the first woman superhero movie." I laugh. This isn't even the first Wonderwoman movie. You know what made this movie good? The fact that they didn't push their agenda at all. There were strong women in the movie. There were strong men in the movie. There were cowardly men in the movie. Did it seem like they were cowards just because? No, they were cowards because it fit the movie. The screen writer and director may have had an agenda that they snuck in, but it wasn't forced and therefore didn't seem like we were being scolded for it. Wonderwoman isn't my favorite female superhero, that goes to Scarlet Witch. She will, most likely, never have her own movie and I'm ok with that. She isn't a main character (kinda =p). She does have many points were she is the pivotal point in a story. Like when she completely erased 90% of all mutants because she accidentally wished it. Or when she changed reality and made Magneto no longer her father. She was created in 1964. She is the strongest mutant that exists (currently, the only one stronger is dead). So, if you want to blame Hollywood for their lack of women, don't blame superhero movies or the lack of progressiveness in them.
We don't want to be told how bad we are just because we are men. Things should be done on merit and if you want to see more women in certain fields, maybe you should go into those fields. On that note, what about the hypocrisy of Natalie Portman who has a production company, goes to the emmy's and says there should be more women producers, but the only woman producer she has is herself and 5 (iirc) men. Why doesn't she hire more women? Simple, they aren't there.
I still feel the chill on my spine whenever I hear WW theme song. Especially the distorted cello one.
The last part of this video is implying that the genius composer from wonder woman should be replaced by somebody simply because he was born a male and the other person was born a female. Replacing him would be dumb, replacing him for that reason specifically and implying his gender is the "one thing wrong" with the score is dumb AND sexist.
But don't you see? This is a movie about a FEMALE superhero (heroine) - a male composer simply could not do as good a job for this movie as a female composer. This is also why this movie absolutely HAD to be directed by a woman!!
Of course I'm being sarcastic. Gender shouldn't be a factor (either way).
That’s why I gave the video a thumbs down. Unnecessary injection of gender politics
It's his video, it's his opinion, he can say whatever he want to say. In an age when everybody claims that their opinion sholdn't be silenced, there are a big hypocrisy when they don't like other people opinion.
I love the end credits music, along with the graphics. So badass.
Having a man compose the soundtrack doesn't make it less.
Ikr dafuq was that last part about? Subtle way of saying 'i'm a feminist' or something?
Agreed. It was a pointless comment in an otherwise thoughtful video.
I appreciate some of the aspects of the film score more that I didn't realize were there before. That being said, every time I hear that electric cello I want to vomit and never stop vomiting.
Chill you guys. Zimmer, Elfman, Gregson-Williams & co. won't go out of business because someone points out that there are female composers who maybe should get a little spotlight.
Heck, female or otherwise, I'd love to see more diversity among the big movie composers in general. I listen to soundtracks a lot and I genuinely do love the work these guys do, but it feels like almost all the big gigs go to the same four or five dudes and some of them are getting a bit repetitive for it.
Ah those intoxicated males that are drowned by fear whenever someone says the words "female" "woman"
I love Rupert's works!! He is one my favorite film composers working today.
dc movies have better music, marvel trailers have better music
Alucard632 so true
marvel tend to recycle their music lol
I loved Wonder Woman! Amazing movie, awesome visuals!
So, music critics shit all over Transformers, and the Dark Knight Trilogy that have consistent themes, that are mostly used appropriately, and in the case of Batman Begins, the themes actually are developed over the film, like with "Batcave" to "Backup". But a movie score that steals most of its music from Steve Jablonsky, Hans Zimmer inspirational tracks, and even Howard Shore's Return of the King with the ending music, is praised by you guys. Just for having the basics of a developing theme.
Critics like only praises Wonder Women cuz its a women's film. The movie is mediocre at best
Superultramegaa LastName this is what hOllywood films works these days, WW was not at all praised for its incedible music theme(copy from or not as others also do it) it was praise for its overall films perspective and it really creates a history to Wonder Woman and ordinary Women all over the world as it shows justice and power in feminine way but not like male roles are weak and useless.. Just look at her supporting characters including Steve Trevor... Amazing work of act... It can't be unseen... If this movie is overrated then it is okay as it really brings a little history in Women's directed film as a female lead role...
Freddy Lalremtluanga Vuite I actually found a lot of similarity between WW theme and the Legend Of Tarzan movie theme , it seems odd but both those movies had some sort of similar theme , especially WW training theme and Tarzan swinging theme.
Arrival to Earth is my favorite piece and when it made a sudden reappearence in The Last Knight after, to the best of my knowledge, being absent for at least 3 movies, I damn near exploded with joy!
I find something funny here: at 2.08, the one note up part is the exact notes for Junkie XL's Batman theme, which you even here in "Is She With You" when it cuts back to Lois trying to get the spear.
Why does it matter what gender the composer is? Good music is good music and you don't need to drag a woman to score a film just because lolvagina. I'm female and frankly all this "we need women here, here and here just because" is getting so tiresome to hear. Just get a fitting composer that works well with the film and its director like they did in the movie discussed in this video. Simple.
yo I literally got chills down my spine when you played her theme song
Great video, keep up the work! I personally hated the original WW theme from BVS, and thought it was overly bombastic and lacking grace. It just felt tacky. But aside from that, I found myself actually enjoying the score for Wonder Woman, and thought it was one of this year's more interesting and refreshing cinematic scores, and it managed to convey Diana's growth over the course of the movie.
Those Gregson-Williams, man they're amazing
Just wondering why do you care about the composer's gender? Shouldn't ti just be the best person for the job?
This is just speculation, but I know that especially in directing, the tone of the movie is generally quite different depending on the gender of the director. Of course each director has his or her own specific way of directing, but between different sexes, there does exist a difference.
Perhaps, just like with the director in WW, a female composer might have a different take on a musical score.
I definitely understand the "best person for the job" mentality, but I also understand that the "best" is not easily quantifiable. What makes someone the "best?" Is it experience? Is it technique? Is it a personal quirk? Is it culture? Different people bring different qualities to a job, and so saying, "the best person for the job should get the job" can be (but is not necessarily) arbitrary. That's not to say that they should choose someone bad at the job, but that in a scene full of experts, one person isn't necessarily better than the next.
Is Hans Zimmer a better composer than John Williams? They're different, and so it depends on what you want your soundtrack to sound like. If you wanted a electric, upbeat soundtrack, would you want Williams, or if you wanted an excited orchestral and more classical sound, would you want Zimmer?
because of representation mate. We can say "the job should go to the best one for it" all we want but we can't deny that some people are not even in the running for that job because of their gender race sexuality.
Best theme for a comic book character of ALL TIME!! MCU, and DCAU!!!! Y’all need to do more like this!!!!!!
Great video mate. I think Wonder Woman is the best superhero film of the last decade.
That music gives me chills everytime
I agree that the motif that permeates this score is used well, but I have to disagree with the part about the BvS WW theme played in the middle of WW. I remember watching it and noticing the feeling of it being out of place. It came in and out weird, it was at a weird point in the movie and it never felt like it noticeably progressed.
I agree. The "disruptive" theme might have worked in BvS (and I feel it didn't) where WW just came out of nowhere. But I don't see any build up ever preparing me for it to be a non-disruptive part of the score but a natural progression.
When I first heard it in the fight scene it really took me out the movie. It just sounds like it doesn't belong (again, something that might have worked in BvS, but not in WW's own movie).
I disagree completely. There was nothing "disruptive" about it in that scene. It doesn't have to play only when she appears suddenly. It worked just as well with the pause before the fight scene.
I agree. My wife hasn't seen BvS or heard the WW theme b4 and when she saw the scene where the WW theme comes in all obnoxious sounding, she said aloud "What is happening?!" I think RGW's score is much better than Zimmer's WW theme.
commenting channel. how so?? her theme even shifts to kryptonian theme by near end of the track, when Clark senses that Lois is in trouble. Is well molded.
Yeah, it really messed up the whole tone of the film.
dud the music from batman vs superman was like its one saving grace, i got goosebumps when i heard "the red capes are coming" play.
So I know there's already a lot of debate and overdone outrage over what is just 1 or 2 sentences in the video, but I wanted to throw in something a little less reactionary with the hopes you read it, Dan.
First of all I just wanted to say that this is another great video you've made, I always enjoy hearing what someone with your level of knowledge has to say on scores, and you and a couple other youtubers talking about this subject has definitely inspired me to look more and more into film scoring (I'm even thinking about doing it myself one day).
That said, concerning the statement about wanting to hear a woman director, I don't necessarily agree or disagree (I just want to hear a good score in the end) and I respect your opinion, your right to have it, and (more importantly) express it, but perhaps this isn't a good "place" to do it. First of all, in this video the comment felt totally out of place. The video is about musical idetity, themes motifs and bombasticism (bombastic-ness? I don't know) and the whole essay sticks to those themes, and then suddenly your closing statement is "oh also this should have been done by a woman" (*cut to black*). Anoher important point is that this is your closing statement so to speak. It's literally the last thought you leave us with, it's essentially your conclusion, and it really takes away from all the great ideas and points you presented in the rest of the video. These are obviously far from the only reasons you've seen so much knee jerk reaction, but it certainly played a part.
Another, perhaps bigger one of those reasons, (and something certainly in a grey area) is that really I feel like the comment doesn't just feel out of place in the video but on your channel as a whole. Now again I really want to be clear that I absolutely respect your right to own and express your opinion, and I'm not even sure I totally disagree. however, if you look at the current political climate in the west (which I'm sure is where at least 90% your viewers come from) saying that the score should have been written by a woman is a political statement. You may not have intended it to be, but certainly that's the first way it will be taken now by most people. And to me this is the crux of the issue; I just don't feel like most of your audience comes here to discuss or hear about politics - I know I certainly don't. I hope you'll believe me when I say It's not even that in this instance it was an idea that I'm not sure I support - you could have made a political statement I agree with and I still would have felt that maybe it was better left unsaid. I already have so many places I hear about politics, on twitter, on TV in real life, and even on youtube. When I come to this channel that's the farthest thing from my mind - I really just want to think and learn about music and storytelling - bringing politics into the mix makes that hard(er)d to do.
Anyway ultimately it's you'er channel, and I nor anyone else can tell you what to do with it, we can only make suggestions and tell you what we want to see or hear. So with that said I hope you'll take what I said into consideration. (also sorry this turned out so long (also also you'll have to excuse spelling or grammar mistakes I really don't want to have to spellcheck this monster of a comment lol))
Well stated, Mabinogi. I felt the same way about the closing statement, but also feel tremendous respect for his insight and postings. The ending just left me feeling a bit... off. Great music is great music, regardless of the gender of the composer.
I think he was less saying it should have been composed by a woman and more that they should give a woman a shot in the next Wonder Woman film.
He didn't say it should be written by a woman. I think we all agree we need a good film and that comes from good work done male or female. However, Wonder Woman is unique in cinematic history for its financial success in portraying a female lead. This is worth mentioning in a video concerning this film. We all think a man could score the sequel just as well as a woman? So why so revolutionary to say a woman could score it just as well as a man. And yet apparently it is. Sometimes it's just nice to be brave and say what's on your mind. There was nothing wrong with what he said. Astonishing how fragile some people are.
*"Only one thing could've made it better: In a world where film music is clearly a male-dominated industry, but where amazing composers like* [insert names that I sadly have to admit I've never heard of before, or at least never noticed their names despite hearing their music] *do exist, I'd like to hear what a women does with the next Wonder Woman film.*
That is the direct quote. All you folks deviating from that in your comments, take note.
That being said, Who the fuck really listened to the music in films like Jackie, loved it and wanted to find out the composer, and honestly thought "OH IT's A WOMAN COMPOSER"?
MabinogiChristianJ perfectly said
Wonder woman's soundtrack is similar in Pirate's of Caribbean at 1:42 and this Wonder's soundtrack is so badass.
Good video except for the last few sentences about female composers. That's lame
Ronin 28 too lame....😂😂😂
Wonder Woman music theme is been my ring tone since the movie came out. I love it, will never change it
You had my attention until around the 4:05 mark. The best composer for the film in question should get the job, regardless of whether that person is male or female. Hiring a woman to handle the next film's score in no way guarantees an improvement to the score, nor does it indicate any automatic uniqueness. If a female composer is given the task, I expect her to have earned it because of her talent and not because of her gender. If she does, great. If she doesn't, that's fine too. Prioritizing a composer's musical "voice" (for lack of a better word) based on gender is just asinine, especially after you spent the entire video discussing what "smart" job Gregson-Williams did. Logically, he's the composer who should continue to work on these films.
I can tell you as someone who grew up competing in piano competitions and playing in recitals all over my region of the U.S., gender does not affect musical ability or even style of play (with the exception being very young children, and even then it's not ability but rather just a difference in priority). I find it very hard to believe that composing would differ in that sense.
@Random-Animezing : please read my response to "Marshall Dan"
Cello, violin general string organs make themes awesome. Seriously, the violins on DBS when UI is achieved, WW theme, string organs at another level of epicness
Like the vid but I'll never believe that the original from BvS should ever have been Wonder Woman's theme. There's just too much desperation in it. For me, it was meant to be Doomsday's music. The problem is that that version of Doomsday never lived up to how good the music actually was.
Dude, even if Dooms did live up.. He's an alien, in need of something from Jean-Michel Jarre or Kraftwerk or someones really wayout from the corners of the Milky-Way
The thing is, what was the music trying to convey at that point? I mean, we know it now as the Wonder Woman music, but it played throughout that final fight in BvS. Think about the emotions the music is trying to convey. It just doesn't match up to say that it's Wonder Woman's theme.
I think the theme portrayed WW in the best way possible , the mysterious god level force from the past , one that people could love but also fear , while the WW movie basically portrayed it as more heroic and hence blend in reducing the mystery from that theme , it fits for a WW fight theme , specifically fight , while Superman's theme is just everything!
This was great! You’re right, of course. Every time I see WW anything, that riff cuts through with those banging drums! I love Zimmer, he never fails producing sticking themes. Inception anybody?
You just have to ruin it in the end, didn't you?
I liked that they connected her theme with Batman's theme (when Wayne Industries van appears).
We saw that in BvS, of course (Lois running and falling like a dumb), but i see Wonder Woman's (complete) theme as a Trinity team, because it's also connected with the Superman's one.
The theme is built wonderfully, but I find the electric cello obnoxious and put of place. Really wish it were just the default orchestra instead.
Derango Memorable doesn’t equal good.
Why wouldn't it be obnoxious? You're telling me, a woman with a glow-in-the-dark rope and skimpy golden war armor in the middle of a World War isn't any less obnoxious than the instrument that plays such a theme?
The Avarice Of Esperance By that logic literally every sci-fi or fantasy film should have a loud, obnoxious theme.
Matthew Thomason
So,,, why not? If a theme is that good in a fantasy setting, nonetheless hummable, I would like it to be as obnoxious as the genre is. Star Wars has an obnoxious brassy fanfare to begin to emulate the idea of exploring the Western/New Frontier, so why can't more movies be obnoxious?
The electric cello is what made the theme what it is. It's wildly different from any other contemporary theme, and for a reason.
The playing of the electric cello is epic
Just had to throw in a little gender politics at the end, eh? Well I guess you've earned your good boy points then.
Sounds like you find "gender politics" really distressing.
U are an awesome guy bro
Never thought that it was the same theme music played throughout the movie
Let me get this straight. You're praising a film's soundtrack for making use of a leitmotif and transforming that motif according to context? Are you suggesting that that is something to be praised now, never mind the actual execution? Even though this has been standard procedure for Hollywood scores for ages? Saying that "Wonder Woman contains some of the most complex film music of any contemporary superhero" is completely meaningless, considering that, generally speaking, superhero movies have extremely unremarkable soundtracks. This film is actually no exception. Even if we grant that it is, speaking in terms of superhero movies, in my opinion its soundtrack is still not particularly praiseworthy or musically interesting in any way. An interesting modern score would ditch the Hollywood orchestra, or, at the bare minimum, bring some new sounds into the mix (and NOT a freakin' electric cello), and be a lot more subtle in its approach to themes and structure.
Totally agree. I personally feel Hans Zimmer's score on Dark Knight is a better superhero score. My personal favourite is the Lord of the rings score. here is a fantastic break down on it by one of my fav youtubers ruclips.net/video/e7BkmF8CJpQ/видео.html
It's the other way around. It's superman 78 that hasn't been topped yet when it comes to super-hero themes, with batman 89 being close.
Where the theme from bvs is playing in Wonder Woman is one of, if not the most badass scenes in the entire movie