First of all, I love this program. I can't afford both cable TV and the internet, so I rely on the internet for most of the television I watch. I subscribe to one or two premium channels but, as you may guess, I cannot afford too many. So when I find a good program like this shown on RUclips I become a dedicated fan. I think there are many that have made similar decisions. However, based on how the program is loaded onto RUclips, I have the feeling that those handling this channel have gotten poor advice, based mostly on marketing for other types of content. There are many schools of thought on this topic. But the most important consideration to succeed on RUclips is the type of content a channel offers. That will determine its audience and should determine how the content is loaded. And, frankly, while I really enjoy this program, I do not enjoy the haphazard way the content is offered. One school of thought insists videos should not be more than a certain length-- anywhere from 15 second to 15 minutes, they say, is the maximum. But that completely depends on the content and the platform. Really short videos are best put on Instagram and TikTok, as those platforms are specifically designed for viewing on a smartphone. People use those platforms most often when they are on the go and caught waiting-- when they are on a bus or train, or when they are waiting in line somewhere. They don't want to get too involved with any one video; they specifically want something short to fill a brief void. But these are not those videos. However, there is another whole audience that, like me, is at home, watching on a computer and interested in finding more in-depth content. I want videos that are at least 30-60 minutes long. My favorite channels offer videos of at least 25 minutes and others up to 3 hours. Looking over your playlists, I am discouraged to see that there is no one area where all the complete videos from Mayday: Air Disaster are set up in sequentially, perhaps with a different play list for each season. I did find this list, which is titled "Season 10..." but when looking at the playlist, I see all sorts of pesky short videos (clearly RUclips is trying to compete with TikTok, et. al.) and too often the videos not in sequential order or titled in a way (such as "Season 1: Episode 1," etc.) so that viewers can watch them without seeing the same video twice. Filmrise's channel does this very efficiently. One can watch most of the Forensic Files episodes without any trouble and without inadvertently re-watching the same video. Have playlists with shorts, by all means, but put them on a separate playlist. I don't want to watch shorts. In fact, I avoid them-- the offer very little in the way of valuable content. Mayday: Air Disaster is very valuable content, the kind many other channels would love to have. But it should not be trivialized or, at least, not randomly mixed together or taking the same content and re-posting it under different titles (which, I believe, is actually against RUclips policy), which only aggravates the audience you are trying to attract. At this writing you have 337K subscribers. You would pick up many more simply by organizing the channel to appeal to those that are most attracted to this kind of content.
I've never heard of Passion Fruit before, but the lead sing of the group La Bouche died in this crash. Her name was Melanie Thornton. La Bouche had two big hits in the US including Be My Lover and Sweet Dreams. The former also reached number one in Germany, Italy, and Sweden.
Wow those songs were really popular I had no idea! Thank you for sharing that, I wonder how much further the band would have gone, and would The Passion Fruits be as big as The Spice Girls?
Melanie Thornton one -half of the group LaBouche passed away on this same flight. R.I.Pardise Melanie! South Carolina will always love and you are forever be missed back home! 🙏🏿💐🕊
Funny, I just read something Mike Rowe said. "Just because you have a passion for something does not mean you have the skills to do it." That applies way too much to this captain.
Someone commented that one of the singers was also known as the artist La Bouche, who did the songs "Be My Lover" and "Sweet Dreams". I had no idea! Those were SUPER popular and fun songs that topped charts here in the US when I was growing up. I was shocked to hear that the artist perished on this flight. 💔
I was watching a documentary on Melanie Thornton, the former leader singer of the 90s dance/pop duo La Bouche. She was on this plane. The previous documentary that i was watching stated that Melanie was sitting in the emergency exit row, which means she was killed instantly. After watching this episode, i was baffled as to why she wasn't mentioned in this episode? I loved LaBouche and Melanie's voice was amazing! May her and the other victims rest in peace. 😢😥 😢
Runway 28 should have ILS installed before that law went into effect. Considering Switzerland is surrounded by mountains, ILS should have been mandatory.
Much like many safety regulations, they don't come around to it until something bad happens. Look at Titanic, the O'Hare Flight, Tenerife, even 9/11. (Can't believe it's been 20 years.) Look at all these disaster documentaries and all the safety features/regulations that came out afterwards. When it comes to disasters, Foresight is rare for most, but Hindsight is 20/20 for all.
@Ginge Herman Your comment would be easier to read if you put the quotes in the right spots, and didn't play with your caps lock key the whole time you were typing. Holy crap, spend some time figuring out how to type, set a profile on RUclips, figure out how it underlines misspelled words, so you notice....Be an adult, basically. I'm impressed how low people set standards for themselves these days.
I try to watch these without reading the comments first. So when I see a person speaking about their experience, it gives me hope that there are more survivors. 👍🏼
Traveling at near 180kph, that's race car speeds, imagine trying to read a yield sign while driving on an indy track but you have a window that is 10 inches wide which is all you can see. And remember you're doing this in twilight to night time conditions
@@alepepperoni2563 Not sure, can't remember. But I don't think so. The guy was a lifeguard. I'll have to look to see which episode it was. The Peru one was in the mountains, right?
While the captain’s actions are most directly responsible for this tragedy, the only way to prevent this happening again is to study the conditions that made it possible for him to be in position to make these mistakes in the first place: lack of oversight, lack of training, lack of serious consequences for previous errors, etc. Any airline that allows situations like this is ultimately accountable for any injuries or loss of life.
It's possible to imagine a scenario where close supervision on the part of the airline spots the pilot's navigational deficiencies and zeroes in on them. They put the pilot on paid leave until he either successfully completes an intensive remedial class and demonstrates basic navigation competence, or is permanently dismissed.
Yes. They faulted corporate culture in the report for prioritizing growth too heavily at the expense of some questionable hiring practices regarding its pilots, as I understand.
The Captains history is hilarious. Retracted the landing gear while stationary on the runway. LOL. I think the Simpsons had that mistake in one of their shows.
@@Suisfonia Retracting the landing gear while still on the runway, an instance in which no one died, was hilarious. However, at that point, the captain should have immediately lost his license and never been allowed to pilot an aircraft again. That funny incident was a warning of things to come, and it was ignored, sadly. The tragedy in in this video was in no way funny nor was bdweale implying that it was.
@@Geronimo2Fly He may not have been implying it, but that's how it came out; there was nothing funny about this guys past, considering it was a warning sign of things to come. Yes, no one died in that instant (though I thought he was referring to this crash) but that doesn't make any less disturbing.
There is - but he disabled it. From the report: "The commander was of the opinion that on the ground, with the landing gear under load, the function of the retraction mechanism was interrupted, as is the case, for example, with smaller aircraft. Actually, however, the corresponding safety device of the Saab 340 only prevented operation of the landing gear lever. The commander pressed down the lock release button, which overrode the safety device and the co-pilot brought the landing gear lever to the retract position. Contrary to the commander's assumption, the hydraulic pumps began to work and the retraction process could not be interrupted. The aircraft impacted on the ground and was a whole loss." It was the first hull loss of a Saab 340
I’m beginning to think that a younger head pilot might be safer the veteran pilots seem to think they know everything and kinda over rule their copilots thoughts
Well nowadays that actually has been addressed more aggressively. they try to teach the younger inexperienced pilots not to hold back and to say something if you think it is wrong. I think they've been training the veterans also to not behave that way. in a manner that puts a less experienced pilot in a position to not want to speak up. There have been several bad accidents that occurred solely because of this behavior
Well, that is addressed at well run airlines with CRM (cockpit resource management) training. It is exceptionally effective. It seems that Cross Air's CRM training was grossly inadequate.
R.I.P to Melanie and her crew. I came to this video after finding out its based on that crash. So much could have been done to prevent this crash which makes it sadder. 😢
I just figured out that these older experienced pilots are jealous of the younger ones and flaunt their position of authority up to and including making catastrophic errors because of the ego.
11:21 "the flight has hit Decision Height; 2400 feet above sea level, 1,000 feet above the ground." This is actually wrong. Decision Height is used on a Precision Approach (such as an ILS) and is the altitude where if you do not have the required visual reference to continue the approach you go missed; Decision Height is only a couple hundred feet above the ground. 2,400 feet is the Minimum Descent Altitude (MDA) which is used on a Non-Precision Approach (NPA) and is 1,000 feet above the ground, much higher than Decision Height. You remain at your MDA on an NPA until you have the required visual reference to continue the approach otherwise you go missed at your Missed Approach Point. There is no Decision Height on an NPA.
Unfortunately, a familiar scenario sets up here, similar to other plane crashes over the decades...weather issues, night flight. A captain with a somewhat inflated sense of his supreme knowledge of where he was and what he was doing in the cockpit. And a timid, young co pilot with much less experience, not wanting to question what the Captain was doing. So sad this is. Copilots, and of course pilots, need to keep in mind the souls on board the plane who trust them both to do the right thing. I hope lessons were learned from this tragedy.
Good summary, except that "a somewhat inflated sense of his supreme knowledge," is an understatement for this captain!! I've noticed in other vids that they had placed a much less experienced co-pilot with an older, more experienced pilot and the co-pilot was hesitant to question the captain. What's tragic about this is that the captain didn't get all his experience and flight hours from skill, but from LUCK. That steep descent was crazy at night in poor visibility in an area with hills and mountains. I don't understand why co-pilots don't speak up more, but then again, I second guess myself all the time. It's just that I am not responsible for the lives of dozens to hundreds of people, in situations where decisions need to be made in minutes or even seconds.
@@DonnaBrooks I was trying to be kind lol...you are right of course, this captain really was a poor example of what a pilot should be. He paid the price for that, but so did his crew and passengers. Tragic and unnecessary deaths.
Inflated attitude? Ego killed 500 people in Los Rodeos flight disaster with Van Zanten pilot 😢. The poor timid copilot couldn't stop the tragedy when they collided on the runway with Pan-Am. Worst flight crash in history, due to human error.😢
When I first watched the episode, I couldn’t believe how incompetent the captain was. He even wrecked a Saab 340 by retracting the landing gear while it was still on the apron.
I would have thought that there would be some built-in mechanism to prevent retracting the gear while there is weight on the wheels. Or something else. They have software that actively tries to prevent a stall, but nothing for the gear? Aside from the pilot of course.
My whole life I wanted to become a pilot for the love of planes , but watching these series shows me how companies would rather money over human life . This particular episode blows my mind that a be low average pilot is trusted with human lives . It makes me think now everytime I step on a plane is this pilot in the cockpit competent to fly.... wow!
I feel kind of bad. I admit I laughed when I watched the flight recorders being boxed and packed with packing peanuts for shipping. They just survived a Plane Crash. Packing peanuts?!
@@MathasarSalazar2 "After a crash they are fragile and sensitive to data loss," Serious question: What changed inside the boxes to make them more fragile? Was there some Crash Resistant mechanism in the boxes that was damaged to the point that it no longer would provide protection? The exterior looked OK..... Retired engineer: Expiring minds want to know......
@@MathasarSalazar2 thank you. I can see where materials already subjected to great stresses could become less resilient as a result. It was just weird, having heard again and again about the stresses those cases are expected to survive. Gives the impression that UPS could not only drop the box out of the back of a truck, they could then accidentally run over the thing with it and those puppies would keep on ticking. 😉
@@dd_ranchtexas4501 They do it to make sure the recorders aren't damaged any further than they may already be. That's really abt it, just a precaution. Kinda like when they pull the recorders out of water, they place the boxes in coolers of water to make sure they don't oxidize and ruin the data.
perhaps those 21 people had prior experience with that particular pilot and his notoriously close calls and getting lost and was like....yeah no....absolutely not
Sadly, many of those passengers wound up dying shortly afterwards from freak accidents such as a falling brick, a swinging sign, a beheading accident near a train, and an exploding hospital ward.
@@mcdonalds5972 Conversely, one of those passengers on the plane must’ve gotten really lucky recently. Maybe miraculously survived some kind of pile up or bridge collapse.
In the last 15 years, the worst year for flying was 2010, when 943 people world-wide died in commercial airliner crashes. Total people who flew worldwide in 2010 in ONLY the US, since my cursory search didn't show global, 554,711 millions. Yes, add six zeroes. Same period, just cars and light trucks, 5,009,806 millions. 32,885 people died in 5,409,000 traffic wrecks reported to police. More than 2 million more were injured. If one uses the total number of deaths worldwide versus the miles in just the US, its one per 588.2 million miles. For cars, ine death per 152.3 million miles.
I think the politicians that came up with that asinine plan should bear some responsibility. At the very least the law should have been brokered to say that in the event of marginal weather the agreement could be suspended to allow landing on runway 14 with the ILS system. The supervisor leaving early must have had something to do with the controller thinking she may not have had the authority to open runway 14. OR, the law should only have been made mandatory with the implementation of an ILS system on BOTH RUNWAYS. AND, I always thought that the prime objective of ANY pilot would be self-preservation. Passengers may be late or have to go to an alternate, but they arrive ALIVE and in one piece. This Captain must have taken flying lessons from Quagmire. R.I.P. to those who lost their lives through the ineptness of others.
he still made it 20 years though, despite the several accidents & mistakes, he must have made 1000s of successful flights. i wonder how he managed...??!
@@Suisfoniaprobably helped. I'm also thinking he probably just always got lucky, i.e. with similar easy fights without any difficulties. it's when something is different or for the extremely rare emergencies and that's when you need someone competent. even the worst pilot is clearly able to fly most of the time without crashing; otherwise, they'd have crashed before ever becoming a pilot. it's when trouble strikes... I'm assuming each time he fouled up was a more difficult than average flight
Growing in in a military family we flew all over the globe 🌎 amazing how many hours we spent in the air and never had any major problems but til this day I have not flown in over 20 years . Mainly because I never felt safe its like ok hope we make it whenever boarding a plane and in the military your basically forced to fly. So to all the people who want to fly and be a pilot just remember there's alot of these videos on RUclips.
These videos actually reinforce my love of flying, not make me scared of it. They show how much has to wrong for a crash to even have a chance of happening! At this point, I'm more scared of driving, even in rural Ohio, than of flying.
The Captain's narration struck me as something a flight instructor would do, and likely rather good communication. But if done in a superior manner, the F.O. may have felt more like a student and had already ticked off the Capt about the runway, and likely didn't want to risk doing so again An imbalance there that may have kept the F.O. from any further admonition. Especially when the Capt said he had ground contact, how could the F.O. be sure the Capt didn't? Truly very sad.
@@ZeitGeist_TV the #1 reason I don’t fly on regional airlines. Their standards are much lower, inexperienced pilots, and pilots who have been booted from the major carriers because of poor performance and/or mistakes
It would seem a whole bunch of people are responsible for this crash. Had 1 cross air employee done their due diligence, those 24 souls would've survived that day. Needless tragedy.
Which one person? To me, and I haven’t finished watching the video yet, it was just the captain, who should have made the decision to go around much sooner. The first officer could have been more insistent.
Horrible that he lied saying he could see the ground and sad that first officer didn't take command with all those people that list their lives R.I.P to them.
Of course he went past his minimums - he thought he was landing soon! By "ground contact" he meant he can see the ground and thinks he's nearing the runway, minding what the pilots of the previous plane said. I think having flown into that airport so many times made him complacent, along with his arrogance not allowing him to admit when he doesn't know something or made a mistake.
Though I feel bad 2 of the 3 Passion Fruits died, it is quite humorous that their rambunctiousness is exemplified in this doc via pillow fights and flicking light switches on and off. Did an 8 year old direct this episode?
I love the way he talks about the Girls. "The Passion Fruits were being quite noisy" As they are having a pillow fight right in front of him. LOL I wouldn't have been complaining,
Naw he was very tired and just wanted to get some sleep and he couldn’t do that when the passion fruits were laughing and being obnoxious. I know I would get annoyed by that if I were as tired as he was.
FIRST thing that should be done after these crashes is a TOXICOLOGY report of pilots. I dated one once........pressure causes alcoholism and substance abuse.
I agree. A car accident they run theses kinds of reports. Even though it feel like sometimes it easy to blame the pilots, I mean they are human and sitting back after a crash we can say they should have done .. in other videos, not this I e, I felt blaming the pilots was a scale goat.
There is no such thing decision height (DA) on a VOR approach. It’s a minimum descent altitude (MDA). This error illustrates the quality of the experts they have on this show.
As a professional pilot, I must criticize this episode for an inaccuracy. Runways are designated according to their magnetic heading, rounded to every 10 deg. which in this case is 140 deg. In radio-telephony 140 deg. is referred to as 1-4 or, one four, and not 14, and 2-8 for 280 deg., with each digit being verbalized. The zero, as the least significant digit in the series of numbers, is truncated. As a pilot, it makes my hairs bristle because such errors tantamount to disinformation which is technically unacceptable.
24 tombstones because of this empty suit of a Captain. Long career of incompetence and slipping through the cracks. Since he was a member of the training dept. he probably got a santa claus PIC check from one of his constituents.
Oddly, the captain (who was at fault) was right in the first place and they should have left the runway at 14 despite that it was "nearing 10:00." I understand this is a depiction but the junior first officer looked so smug about being right. I imagine it may have been like that in the real flight. A small victory, but if they stayed on the trajectory they were initially cleared for, runway 14, they would have landed safely. Of course this is no excuse for the poor judgement of the captain. It just goes to show that taking the hard way usually leads to difficulties. Take the smoother path!
They wouldn't have known if the First Officer was being smug. That is an actor playing him in a recreation. Those black boxes don't record video, so they had to assume from audio that he was being snarky/giving a smug look or improvise.
@@annihilator247x Sure, I know that. The real culprit was the bad judgement of the captain. The thing was the "victory" won by the FO wasn't a good thing overall. They had clearance to land with instruments but to avoid the noise ordinance which was only just starting if it even was, they had to use vision instead which caused this problem. Better to have gone with plan A.
I'm aware that was controlled flight into terrain. But what puzzles me is his disregard for the flight plan and nose down high speed attitude until he hit the hill. Was it possible suicide or onset of dementia. And the younger pilot I'm afraid was either ill trained so so terrified of him he would allow a crash. Bizzarre
Watching all these incredible videos, I wish public media and government put less pressure on investigators, so that they could perform their job properly and find the truth, not just to close the case under pressure of those who want immediate answers, some investigations were held for months and over a year. Investigators work is the clue to correction, prevention of new disaster and pilots trainings. Let them do their jobs❤
"Years of flying and flying hours don't say anything about competence." True, but it does appear that this man had the longest luck span of any human on planet Earth.
The pilot's record as an instructor pilot and his narration of steps taken as he approached belie the airline's effort to blame him. Furthermore, there's no indication from the cockpit voice recorder that the pilot had bullied or intimidated the co-pilot. And the co-pilot failed to narrate his own observations, such as "descending past minimum safe altitude". As for the oil pressure installation, the question isn't how you can fly with it upside down. The question is how can you install it upside down. Given the airline's maintenance record and the improper training of the co-pilot, I'd say the airline is at fault.
Sad story but Captain Lutz should only have been flying a Taxi cab. He failed all of his exams and should never have been able to fly! CrosAir is negligent and responsible for all those poor Souls.
After seeing so many of these videos I just don't understand why it would be so hard to have a video of events in the cockpit besides just a voice recording.. So you could actually see what happened! That shouldn't really be that expensive. Also why not an outside view showing if landing gear is down also. You can get a camera in your house showing whos at your front door for not too much money. So it shouldn't be financially prohibitive.
Politics was the basic cause of the problem. The lone ATC did not feel that she had the authority to change runways. I don't blame her. Further, she shouldn't have been left alone.
Watch part 2 here: ruclips.net/video/ErnbDuiy9QQ/видео.html
No. You’re not the boss of me! Lol
Isn't this the full episode, though?
Um I thought this was the full episode? Please explain if not! Loved this, but I'm confused.
First of all, I love this program. I can't afford both cable TV and the internet, so I rely on the internet for most of the television I watch. I subscribe to one or two premium channels but, as you may guess, I cannot afford too many. So when I find a good program like this shown on RUclips I become a dedicated fan. I think there are many that have made similar decisions. However, based on how the program is loaded onto RUclips, I have the feeling that those handling this channel have gotten poor advice, based mostly on marketing for other types of content.
There are many schools of thought on this topic. But the most important consideration to succeed on RUclips is the type of content a channel offers. That will determine its audience and should determine how the content is loaded. And, frankly, while I really enjoy this program, I do not enjoy the haphazard way the content is offered.
One school of thought insists videos should not be more than a certain length-- anywhere from 15 second to 15 minutes, they say, is the maximum. But that completely depends on the content and the platform. Really short videos are best put on Instagram and TikTok, as those platforms are specifically designed for viewing on a smartphone. People use those platforms most often when they are on the go and caught waiting-- when they are on a bus or train, or when they are waiting in line somewhere. They don't want to get too involved with any one video; they specifically want something short to fill a brief void. But these are not those videos.
However, there is another whole audience that, like me, is at home, watching on a computer and interested in finding more in-depth content. I want videos that are at least 30-60 minutes long. My favorite channels offer videos of at least 25 minutes and others up to 3 hours. Looking over your playlists, I am discouraged to see that there is no one area where all the complete videos from Mayday: Air Disaster are set up in sequentially, perhaps with a different play list for each season. I did find this list, which is titled "Season 10..." but when looking at the playlist, I see all sorts of pesky short videos (clearly RUclips is trying to compete with TikTok, et. al.) and too often the videos not in sequential order or titled in a way (such as "Season 1: Episode 1," etc.) so that viewers can watch them without seeing the same video twice. Filmrise's channel does this very efficiently. One can watch most of the Forensic Files episodes without any trouble and without inadvertently re-watching the same video.
Have playlists with shorts, by all means, but put them on a separate playlist. I don't want to watch shorts. In fact, I avoid them-- the offer very little in the way of valuable content. Mayday: Air Disaster is very valuable content, the kind many other channels would love to have. But it should not be trivialized or, at least, not randomly mixed together or taking the same content and re-posting it under different titles (which, I believe, is actually against RUclips policy), which only aggravates the audience you are trying to attract.
At this writing you have 337K subscribers. You would pick up many more simply by organizing the channel to appeal to those that are most attracted to this kind of content.
DON'T RECOMMEND CHANNEL‼️You can do your videos in HALF the time. STOP repeating what we already know❗
I've never heard of Passion Fruit before, but the lead sing of the group La Bouche died in this crash. Her name was Melanie Thornton. La Bouche had two big hits in the US including Be My Lover and Sweet Dreams. The former also reached number one in Germany, Italy, and Sweden.
Wow those songs were really popular I had no idea! Thank you for sharing that, I wonder how much further the band would have gone, and would The Passion Fruits be as big as The Spice Girls?
That's what brought me here.
Wow never knew that!! Great songs that people still listen to.
Holy crap, really?? I loved La Bouche back in the day, including those two songs. I had no she died. Damn. Thank you for letting me know. 💔
Melanie was brilliant, may she Rest In Peace. She should have been mentioned.
Melanie Thornton one -half of the group LaBouche passed away on this same flight. R.I.Pardise Melanie! South Carolina will always love and you are forever be missed back home! 🙏🏿💐🕊
She's the reason I'm watching this specific episode.
Wasn't Melanie Thornton (singer from La Bouche) on this flight as well? She did not survive. She was not mentioned once. Thats sad.
Completely sad, amazing singer as well
Melanie Thornton, formerly of La Bouche, was on this flight as well. She will always be missed. Sorry for the lost of all lives on this flight😢❤
She sat where the engine caught fire 😢
@@wonderful4life 😔
Funny, I just read something Mike Rowe said. "Just because you have a passion for something does not mean you have the skills to do it." That applies way too much to this captain.
Someone commented that one of the singers was also known as the artist La Bouche, who did the songs "Be My Lover" and "Sweet Dreams". I had no idea! Those were SUPER popular and fun songs that topped charts here in the US when I was growing up. I was shocked to hear that the artist perished on this flight. 💔
I was watching a documentary on Melanie Thornton, the former leader singer of the 90s dance/pop duo La Bouche. She was on this plane. The previous documentary that i was watching stated that Melanie was sitting in the emergency exit row, which means she was killed instantly. After watching this episode, i was baffled as to why she wasn't mentioned in this episode? I loved LaBouche and Melanie's voice was amazing! May her and the other victims rest in peace. 😢😥 😢
The cameraman has survived every air crash. He is a legend!
Bahhhhhhh you da man
🤣🤣🤣
😐
Dark sense of humor😂
The cameraman always survives
Runway 28 should have ILS installed before that law went into effect. Considering Switzerland is surrounded by mountains, ILS should have been mandatory.
Much like many safety regulations, they don't come around to it until something bad happens.
Look at Titanic, the O'Hare Flight, Tenerife, even 9/11. (Can't believe it's been 20 years.) Look at all these disaster documentaries and all the safety features/regulations that came out afterwards.
When it comes to disasters, Foresight is rare for most, but Hindsight is 20/20 for all.
@Ginge Herman absolutely correct! How many of these episodes have we seen that there was only one controller on duty!? More than a couple
@@jagirl966 couldn't agree with you more!
I love flying into Zurich. But definitely agree
@Ginge Herman Your comment would be easier to read if you put the quotes in the right spots, and didn't play with your caps lock key the whole time you were typing. Holy crap, spend some time figuring out how to type, set a profile on RUclips, figure out how it underlines misspelled words, so you notice....Be an adult, basically. I'm impressed how low people set standards for themselves these days.
I try to watch these without reading the comments first. So when I see a person speaking about their experience, it gives me hope that there are more survivors. 👍🏼
Same here.. the trouble is I'll watch these about crashes that I know well but I always hope for a better outcome for some reason
Until you notice if the interviews are from survivors or families
@@mikewhipkey6863 You get different little details from different docs about the same crash. I definitely appreciate that.
Watch the news and you will be informed!
“He didn’t realize this until some of the passengers started noticing the street signs were in Italian”… 😳😳😳
First of all, if they were close enough to READ small street signs...
@@mpscorporation6874 I doubt they were at 100 feet? who knows with this captain?.
Traveling at near 180kph, that's race car speeds, imagine trying to read a yield sign while driving on an indy track but you have a window that is 10 inches wide which is all you can see. And remember you're doing this in twilight to night time conditions
lol...
That captain retracting the landing gear while still on the ground is even more hilarious.
It’s always shocking to see how closely the actors look like the real people. Incredible production.
I just saw one where I'm 99% sure they got the real person, but too lazy to check.
@@aewtx was it the flight that broke in 2 near peru I think?
@@alepepperoni2563 Not sure, can't remember. But I don't think so. The guy was a lifeguard. I'll have to look to see which episode it was. The Peru one was in the mountains, right?
@@aewtx yes it was in the mountains, idk if the guy was a lifeguard though
Yeah it's good thing they don't look like fake people. It would look like a mime contest.
21 people who missed that flight. They were damn lucky.
Like the ones from the Titanic. Many claim they had a premonition😮
While the captain’s actions are most directly responsible for this tragedy, the only way to prevent this happening again is to study the conditions that made it possible for him to be in position to make these mistakes in the first place: lack of oversight, lack of training, lack of serious consequences for previous errors, etc. Any airline that allows situations like this is ultimately accountable for any injuries or loss of life.
It's possible to imagine a scenario where close supervision on the part of the airline spots the pilot's navigational deficiencies and zeroes in on them. They put the pilot on paid leave until he either successfully completes an intensive remedial class and demonstrates basic navigation competence, or is permanently dismissed.
Yes. They faulted corporate culture in the report for prioritizing growth too heavily at the expense of some questionable hiring practices regarding its pilots, as I understand.
The Captains history is hilarious. Retracted the landing gear while stationary on the runway. LOL. I think the Simpsons had that mistake in one of their shows.
Nothing hilarious about a bad pilot who got people killed.
@@Suisfonia Nobody died.
@@bneale 24 people died in this crash, including the pilot and co-pilot. So not sure where you got the idea that no one died.
@@Suisfonia Retracting the landing gear while still on the runway, an instance in which no one died, was hilarious. However, at that point, the captain should have immediately lost his license and never been allowed to pilot an aircraft again. That funny incident was a warning of things to come, and it was ignored, sadly. The tragedy in in this video was in no way funny nor was bdweale implying that it was.
@@Geronimo2Fly He may not have been implying it, but that's how it came out; there was nothing funny about this guys past, considering it was a warning sign of things to come. Yes, no one died in that instant (though I thought he was referring to this crash) but that doesn't make any less disturbing.
I would think there should be a minor safety feature to prevent gear from being retracted... when you're on the ground.
74 gear once said something that made me think there is
There is - but he disabled it. From the report:
"The commander was of the opinion that on the ground, with the landing gear under load, the function of the retraction mechanism was interrupted, as is the case, for example, with smaller aircraft. Actually, however, the corresponding safety device of the Saab 340 only prevented operation of the landing gear lever. The commander pressed down the lock release button, which overrode the safety device and the co-pilot brought the landing gear lever to the retract position. Contrary to the commander's assumption, the hydraulic pumps began to work and the retraction process could not be interrupted. The aircraft impacted on the ground and was a whole loss."
It was the first hull loss of a Saab 340
There is it’s called common sense
@@valerierodger7700 TY for the lesson! makes sense now,,,
I’m beginning to think that a younger head pilot might be safer the veteran pilots seem to think they know everything and kinda over rule their copilots thoughts
Well nowadays that actually has been addressed more aggressively. they try to teach the younger inexperienced pilots not to hold back and to say something if you think it is wrong. I think they've been training the veterans also to not behave that way. in a manner that puts a less experienced pilot in a position to not want to speak up. There have been several bad accidents that occurred solely because of this behavior
@@o0o-jd-o0o95 True, it's called CRM......
Well, that is addressed at well run airlines with CRM (cockpit resource management) training. It is exceptionally effective. It seems that Cross Air's CRM training was grossly inadequate.
@@o0o-jd-o0o95 I'm sure your correct but can you provide any examples I can't think of any
There's is no amount of money that they could pay me to be an air traffic controller. Too much stress for me!!
yes I wonder what would make a person ever want that much responsibility
@@pkorns1892 Then join us as an Aircraft Mechanic :)
@@cheery-hex they actually get paid loads of money but most of them quit just after few years due to extreme stress situations
Why was Lutz an instructor with such a poor command of BASICS?
They forgot the mention that La Bouche singer Melanie Thornton was also on the plane and died with the 2 Passion Fruit members
“I have ground contact”…well that was true.
Ouch. Literally.
In Soviet Russia ground contact has you.....too soon?
RIP to Melanie Thornton, Nathaly van het Ende and Maria Serrano Serrano
I wonder how many of the posters in the comments section even remember La Bouche.
@@Tomasquo I loved their music in the 90s! So sad they completely left Melanie Thornton out in this episode!
@@mattiesv703 I lived in Europe throughout the 90's. They were hugely popular there!
Melanie is what brought me to the video
Not forgetting all the other people who died.
R.I.P to Melanie and her crew. I came to this video after finding out its based on that crash. So much could have been done to prevent this crash which makes it sadder. 😢
I just figured out that these older experienced pilots are jealous of the younger ones and flaunt their position of authority up to and including making catastrophic errors because of the ego.
11:21 "the flight has hit Decision Height; 2400 feet above sea level, 1,000 feet above the ground."
This is actually wrong. Decision Height is used on a Precision Approach (such as an ILS) and is the altitude where if you do not have the required visual reference to continue the approach you go missed; Decision Height is only a couple hundred feet above the ground.
2,400 feet is the Minimum Descent Altitude (MDA) which is used on a Non-Precision Approach (NPA) and is 1,000 feet above the ground, much higher than Decision Height. You remain at your MDA on an NPA until you have the required visual reference to continue the approach otherwise you go missed at your Missed Approach Point.
There is no Decision Height on an NPA.
Unfortunately, a familiar scenario sets up here, similar to other plane crashes over the decades...weather issues, night flight. A captain with a somewhat inflated sense of his supreme knowledge of where he was and what he was doing in the cockpit. And a timid, young co pilot with much less experience, not wanting to question what the Captain was doing. So sad this is. Copilots, and of course pilots, need to keep in mind the souls on board the plane who trust them both to do the right thing. I hope lessons were learned from this tragedy.
Good summary, except that "a somewhat inflated sense of his supreme knowledge," is an understatement for this captain!! I've noticed in other vids that they had placed a much less experienced co-pilot with an older, more experienced pilot and the co-pilot was hesitant to question the captain. What's tragic about this is that the captain didn't get all his experience and flight hours from skill, but from LUCK. That steep descent was crazy at night in poor visibility in an area with hills and mountains. I don't understand why co-pilots don't speak up more, but then again, I second guess myself all the time. It's just that I am not responsible for the lives of dozens to hundreds of people, in situations where decisions need to be made in minutes or even seconds.
@@DonnaBrooks I was trying to be kind lol...you are right of course, this captain really was a poor example of what a pilot should be. He paid the price for that, but so did his crew and passengers. Tragic and unnecessary deaths.
The instant I heard the way they talked to each other and saw all those dirty looks I knew there was about to be a CRM fail.
Inflated attitude? Ego killed 500 people in Los Rodeos flight disaster with Van Zanten pilot 😢.
The poor timid copilot couldn't stop the tragedy when they collided on the runway with Pan-Am. Worst flight crash in history, due to human error.😢
those 21 who didn't board the plane are probably glad they didn't.
When I first watched the episode, I couldn’t believe how incompetent the captain was. He even wrecked a Saab 340 by retracting the landing gear while it was still on the apron.
Smh
And 20 plus years with the same airline... its chilling just thinking how many other close calls he had!
@@JasonFlorida yeah plus they had him training new guys so no telling how many incidents he could of been the cause of
I would have thought that there would be some built-in mechanism to prevent retracting the gear while there is weight on the wheels. Or something else. They have software that actively tries to prevent a stall, but nothing for the gear? Aside from the pilot of course.
@@hrdley911 Most aircraft have sensors that prevent that.
My whole life I wanted to become a pilot for the love of planes , but watching these series shows me how companies would rather money over human life . This particular episode blows my mind that a be low average pilot is trusted with human lives . It makes me think now everytime I step on a plane is this pilot in the cockpit competent to fly.... wow!
True. See Alaska Airlines Flight 261 for more on the money issue.
Why don’t you become a aircraft mechanic?
I feel kind of bad. I admit I laughed when I watched the flight recorders being boxed and packed with packing peanuts for shipping. They just survived a Plane Crash. Packing peanuts?!
After a crash they are fragile and sensitive to data loss, so a lot of care is taken to make sure they are transported safely. Good eye though.
@@MathasarSalazar2
"After a crash they are fragile and sensitive to data loss,"
Serious question: What changed inside the boxes to make
them more fragile? Was there some Crash Resistant mechanism
in the boxes that was damaged to the point that it no longer
would provide protection? The exterior looked OK.....
Retired engineer: Expiring minds want to know......
@@MathasarSalazar2 thank you. I can see where materials already subjected to great stresses could become less resilient as a result. It was just weird, having heard again and again about the stresses those cases are expected to survive. Gives the impression that UPS could not only drop the box out of the back of a truck, they could then accidentally run over the thing with it and those puppies would keep on ticking. 😉
@@dd_ranchtexas4501 They do it to make sure the recorders aren't damaged any further than they may already be. That's really abt it, just a precaution. Kinda like when they pull the recorders out of water, they place the boxes in coolers of water to make sure they don't oxidize and ruin the data.
@@MathasarSalazar2 thank you. You didn't get why she laughed? I think they are packed to protect them from everything else, not other way around
I'm astonished that neither the airline nor its insurance company forced them to fire Lutz after he wrecked the first plane.
WoW. 21.
People didn't show up for Flight...
That is so creepy strange ...
21 people..
perhaps those 21 people had prior experience with that particular pilot and his notoriously close calls and getting lost and was like....yeah no....absolutely not
They had to investigate if the maintenance team was trained to put in gauges right side up.
Those 21 passengers that didnt show up mustve had a premonition about the plane crashing
Sadly, many of those passengers wound up dying shortly afterwards from freak accidents such as a falling brick, a swinging sign, a beheading accident near a train, and an exploding hospital ward.
@@mcdonalds5972 Conversely, one of those passengers on the plane must’ve gotten really lucky recently. Maybe miraculously survived some kind of pile up or bridge collapse.
There's incompetence and then there's confident incompetence. Shame the latter is so dangerous, since it usually comes with more authority.
Somewhere in the world is the least competent pilot, and he is about to takeoff 😦
And i just want to tell them both.. good luck. We're all counting on you.
@@cameronscott6002 Hahahaha! Excellent 😊
Welcome aboard mister.
8:55 how are you gonna "go home early" and leave only one person!?
Trying to re-binge before the channel gets shut down like the last one did. Thanks for the constant episode ups!
I bet those groups of people (who didn't so up for this flight) are probably still swimming in happiness, till this day.
Now neighborhood eyewitness Brunner can launch his own airport noise complaint.
Sad that this is how the captain will be remembered
Some say it's safer to fly than drive. Granted there are many more car crashes, but how many car crashes take out hundreds of people at a time?
16,000 car crash per day 6 million each year 40,000 die in car crash each year
@Ace 200 hundred car, semi truck pile up
In the last 15 years, the worst year for flying was 2010, when 943 people world-wide died in commercial airliner crashes. Total people who flew worldwide in 2010 in ONLY the US, since my cursory search didn't show global, 554,711 millions. Yes, add six zeroes. Same period, just cars and light trucks, 5,009,806 millions. 32,885 people died in 5,409,000 traffic wrecks reported to police. More than 2 million more were injured. If one uses the total number of deaths worldwide versus the miles in just the US, its one per 588.2 million miles. For cars, ine death per 152.3 million miles.
@@MGower4465 How many loaded guns
In there carrier on bags and weapons
In there bags . Airlines Indents up 80%
I think the politicians that came up with that asinine plan should bear some responsibility. At the very least the law should have been brokered to say that in the event of marginal weather the agreement could be suspended to allow landing on runway 14 with the ILS system. The supervisor leaving early must have had something to do with the controller thinking she may not have had the authority to open runway 14. OR, the law should only have been made mandatory with the implementation of an ILS system on BOTH RUNWAYS. AND, I always thought that the prime objective of ANY pilot would be self-preservation. Passengers may be late or have to go to an alternate, but they arrive ALIVE and in one piece. This Captain must have taken flying lessons from Quagmire. R.I.P. to those who lost their lives through the ineptness of others.
he still made it 20 years though, despite the several accidents & mistakes, he must have made 1000s of successful flights. i wonder how he managed...??!
Probably had a first officer that was better and smarter than him.
@@Suisfoniaprobably helped. I'm also thinking he probably just always got lucky, i.e. with similar easy fights without any difficulties. it's when something is different or for the extremely rare emergencies and that's when you need someone competent. even the worst pilot is clearly able to fly most of the time without crashing; otherwise, they'd have crashed before ever becoming a pilot. it's when trouble strikes... I'm assuming each time he fouled up was a more difficult than average flight
Luck ran out unexpectedly and without warning.
ILS runway got shut down so neighborhood would not be bothered by noise... Sad.
Growing in in a military family we flew all over the globe 🌎 amazing how many hours we spent in the air and never had any major problems but til this day I have not flown in over 20 years . Mainly because I never felt safe its like ok hope we make it whenever boarding a plane and in the military your basically forced to fly. So to all the people who want to fly and be a pilot just remember there's alot of these videos on RUclips.
Aviation crashes are very rare and even in the event that one happens you still have ~95% chance of surviving
These videos actually reinforce my love of flying, not make me scared of it. They show how much has to wrong for a crash to even have a chance of happening! At this point, I'm more scared of driving, even in rural Ohio, than of flying.
That captain doing his best emperor Palpatine impressions. Goodnight the voice and mannerisms
Capt. Lutz would be one of the most irritating people to work for or to work with, if the actor's portrayal is anything close to being true to life.
the actors here are pretty good, so i'd say that Lutz wasn't great to work with
The Captain's narration struck me as something a flight instructor would do, and likely rather good communication. But if done in a superior manner, the F.O. may have felt more like a student and had already ticked off the Capt about the runway, and likely didn't want to risk doing so again An imbalance there that may have kept the F.O. from any further admonition. Especially when the Capt said he had ground contact, how could the F.O. be sure the Capt didn't? Truly very sad.
They try and make him look like that way so ppl watching get a bad feeling about him. it;s Hollywood,,
That cocky fool of a captain killed those people.
He shouldn't have been allowed to fly with his egregious record.
@@ZeitGeist_TV the #1 reason I don’t fly on regional airlines. Their standards are much lower, inexperienced pilots, and pilots who have been booted from the major carriers because of poor performance and/or mistakes
Doubtful.
There are more than a few of his like-minded colleagues in the comment section reading through these. Disturbing
@@ashleyreagan5543 yeah but it's cost effective. Sometimes you just need to grab a 60$ flight instead of $250 on Delta
I didn't realize they had full episodes on the official channel. Very nice
I can't believe there were apparently no beacons to warn pilots of this sloppy hillside 😮
I thought the same thing...
The Colgan Air flight that crashed in Buffalo killed 51 people , not 50 people. My girlfriend on that flight was 8 months pregnant .
Damn, bro..
I'm so sorry for your loss.
It would seem a whole bunch of people are responsible for this crash. Had 1 cross air employee done their due diligence, those 24 souls would've survived that day. Needless tragedy.
Which one person? To me, and I haven’t finished watching the video yet, it was just the captain, who should have made the decision to go around much sooner. The first officer could have been more insistent.
Or if the Germans hadn’t been selfish about sleep
The glass half full outlook: the world is overpopulated anyway, sooooo....🤷🏻♂️
@@animula6908 That was not a cause of the accident as it no way leads inevitably to an accident.
R.i.P ✝️ Melanie Thornton
May 13 1967 - Nov. 24th 2001
This is the crash that killed Melanie Thorton.
There should be a rule that if either pilot is uncomfortable with the approach, they abort the landing
Shame on the captain
Horrible that he lied saying he could see the ground and sad that first officer didn't take command with all those people that list their lives R.I.P to them.
The only thing missing from this video is the pilot doing a few Homer Simpson's " D' OH"
Of course he went past his minimums - he thought he was landing soon! By "ground contact" he meant he can see the ground and thinks he's nearing the runway, minding what the pilots of the previous plane said. I think having flown into that airport so many times made him complacent, along with his arrogance not allowing him to admit when he doesn't know something or made a mistake.
You are so right. He was just so wrong
Pride goes before a fall.
Though I feel bad 2 of the 3 Passion Fruits died, it is quite humorous that their rambunctiousness is exemplified in this doc via pillow fights and flicking light switches on and off. Did an 8 year old direct this episode?
I imagine that's fairly accurate b/c they do the show on witness accounts
Fantastic series!!_________
I love the way he talks about the Girls. "The Passion Fruits were being quite noisy" As they are having a pillow fight right in front of him. LOL I wouldn't have been complaining,
SAME!!
😄😄😄
He was probably pretending to be annoyed because he was there with his wife🤭🤭
Naw he was very tired and just wanted to get some sleep and he couldn’t do that when the passion fruits were laughing and being obnoxious. I know I would get annoyed by that if I were as tired as he was.
FIRST thing that should be done after these crashes is a TOXICOLOGY report of pilots. I dated one once........pressure causes alcoholism and substance abuse.
I agree. A car accident they run theses kinds of reports. Even though it feel like sometimes it easy to blame the pilots, I mean they are human and sitting back after a crash we can say they should have done .. in other videos, not this I e, I felt blaming the pilots was a scale goat.
wasn't this already uploaded on Wonder or On The Move?
Yup, definitely a repeat.
RIP Melanie Thornton 😢❤
Poor weather
Pilot error
Noise reduction law that was too harsh
They were on a straight line towards disaster
8:37 love how 3597 shows twice 😅
Yes I agree. ILS should have been mandatory, on all runways. F*** vor, unless it's daytime
I love watching these videos right before boarding a plane,is that normal....
I was on a 10hr flight once and they had a whole season of these on the flight entertainment list. I kid you not! I still watched them though 😆
He should have been let go because of his mistakes. That’s just so wrong he was allowed to continue. 🤨
This isn’t how pilots talk at all lol. This was weird to watch when it came to the pilot monologue part
I love the acting in the Mayday series 🙃😊😅
There is no such thing decision height (DA) on a VOR approach. It’s a minimum descent altitude (MDA). This error illustrates the quality of the experts they have on this show.
As a professional pilot, I must criticize this episode for an inaccuracy. Runways are designated according to their magnetic heading, rounded to every 10 deg. which in this case is 140 deg. In radio-telephony 140 deg. is referred to as 1-4 or, one four, and not 14, and 2-8 for 280 deg., with each digit being verbalized. The zero, as the least significant digit in the series of numbers, is truncated. As a pilot, it makes my hairs bristle because such errors tantamount to disinformation which is technically unacceptable.
24 tombstones because of this empty suit of a Captain. Long career of incompetence and slipping through the cracks. Since he was a member of the training dept. he probably got a santa claus PIC check from one of his constituents.
At least he wasn't flying a plane full of Asians.
Remembering Passion Fruit today... and everyone who lost their lives on that flight....so sad.
Oddly, the captain (who was at fault) was right in the first place and they should have left the runway at 14 despite that it was "nearing 10:00." I understand this is a depiction but the junior first officer looked so smug about being right. I imagine it may have been like that in the real flight. A small victory, but if they stayed on the trajectory they were initially cleared for, runway 14, they would have landed safely. Of course this is no excuse for the poor judgement of the captain. It just goes to show that taking the hard way usually leads to difficulties. Take the smoother path!
They wouldn't have known if the First Officer was being smug. That is an actor playing him in a recreation. Those black boxes don't record video, so they had to assume from audio that he was being snarky/giving a smug look or improvise.
@@annihilator247x Sure, I know that. The real culprit was the bad judgement of the captain. The thing was the "victory" won by the FO wasn't a good thing overall. They had clearance to land with instruments but to avoid the noise ordinance which was only just starting if it even was, they had to use vision instead which caused this problem. Better to have gone with plan A.
The captain was signing his own death sentence.
I'm aware that was controlled flight into terrain. But what puzzles me is his disregard for the flight plan and nose down high speed attitude until he hit the hill. Was it possible suicide or onset of dementia. And the younger pilot I'm afraid was either ill trained so so terrified of him he would allow a crash. Bizzarre
I don't know if you are going to do full episode about PSA flight 182 accident at San Diego.
From watching these videos, what policy do you think should be enacted by airlines or airports to make them safer?
Home base = Get-There-Itus = Buying the Farm! Just don't do it!
Melanie Thornton died on this plain and they never mention it. Strange
But she was no more important then anyone else.
@@midgie1166 Well, She was a singer and from a well known group in the early 90's.
@@CornpopOBD I know
Also, Crossair letting a pilot with questionable abilities to pilot their planes...well, shame on them too.
All I can think about is how a bunch of karens in Germany complained enough that an Airport in another country had to shut down a runway.
I don't think you have any clue about how loud a plane landing can be.
*WOW! This captain should never been able to fly a plane at all. retracting the landing gear whilst on the ground is insane!*
Watching all these incredible videos, I wish public media and government put less pressure on investigators, so that they could perform their job properly and find the truth, not just to close the case under pressure of those who want immediate answers, some investigations were held for months and over a year. Investigators work is the clue to correction, prevention of new disaster and pilots trainings. Let them do their jobs❤
Looks like they've been flying over the same spot over and over.
"Years of flying and flying hours don't say anything about competence." True, but it does appear that this man had the longest luck span of any human on planet Earth.
The pilot's record as an instructor pilot and his narration of steps taken as he approached belie the airline's effort to blame him. Furthermore, there's no indication from the cockpit voice recorder that the pilot had bullied or intimidated the co-pilot. And the co-pilot failed to narrate his own observations, such as "descending past minimum safe altitude". As for the oil pressure installation, the question isn't how you can fly with it upside down. The question is how can you install it upside down. Given the airline's maintenance record and the improper training of the co-pilot, I'd say the airline is at fault.
The day of this crash is known as the day euro-dance music died, because of death of Melanie, who was half of the duo la bouche.
I saw this one on TV.
Sad story but Captain Lutz should only have been flying a Taxi cab. He failed all of his exams and should never have been able to fly! CrosAir is negligent and responsible for all those poor Souls.
He retracted the landing gear with the plane on the ground? I always wondered what would happen if you did that hahahahahahaha
Whr was ground proximity alarm?
Do the pilots always film themselves? How'd they get that footage? Was it stored in the orange black boxes?
It’s a recreation for the show. Not the actual pilot just actors
@@jdmpdx3836 0h
"What does he mean by ground contact?" Just wait a minute.
Well, I'm happy the Germans got some peace and quiet on their side of the border.
After seeing so many of these videos I just don't understand why it would be so hard to have a video of events in the cockpit besides just a voice recording.. So you could actually see what happened! That shouldn't really be that expensive. Also why not an outside view showing if landing gear is down also. You can get a camera in your house showing whos at your front door for not too much money. So it shouldn't be financially prohibitive.
Politics was the basic cause of the problem. The lone ATC did not feel that she had the authority to change runways. I don't blame her. Further, she shouldn't have been left alone.