BANDS WHOSE DEBUTS WERE (ARGUABLY) A ROUGH START
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- #thrallsofmetal #review #reaction #retrospective #discussion #debate #debutalbum #whitezombie #btbam #pantera #chimaira #scorpions #faithnomore #shadowsfall #groovemetal #thrashmetal #altmetal #progressivemetal #heavymetal #lambofgod #kyuss #metalcore
Since we talked about a bunch of killer debuts from bands we figure it was time to go towards the other end of the spectrum and talk about some rough starts. Also, shout out to @JustAnotherHeavyMetalManiac for doing essentially his own version of this topic too. Go check out his video and subscribe! 
Развлечения
Hey Thralls, I just want to say thank you for the shoutout! You guys are my favourite channel, so it really means a lot! Thank you so much!
And also looking at the thumbnail, I totally agree with Devastation. Their debut doesn’t even come close to Signs of Life or Idolatry.
However, I do happen to really enjoy Lonesome Crow. Sure it’s not classic Scorpions maybe, but they wrote FAR worse albums later in their career. And besides, 16 year old Michael Schenker absolutely kills it.
Necrotic Nick- Hey! Not a problem, man! We always appreciate the kind words too. I saw that you covered this subject essentially so I thought I'd throw you a shout out as well. We went with more of a rough start theme on this one as that's a bit more broad and some of these albums I actually enjoy despite them arguably not coming out swinging as hard as they could.
I have to say The Haunted one threw me for a loop. i wasn't expecting to hear them mentioned. The timing of when it came out , the unapologetic ballsiness, and the thrashy destruction along with the songs being monsters for the most part were why I fell in love with it. It's actually my favorite.
@@BronYRaursGallow Made Me Do It is my fave
Surprised no Altars of Madness Jon😂 (I will never let it go)
😂🤣🤣
The Faith No More debut is great. They combined post punk and metal like no other band was doing in the mid 80s. I still have my original cassette and jam it all the time.
Necrotic Nick- I think it's decent but they got so much better especially when Mike Patton joined the band.
I agree that FNM got better with Mike. I look at the first 2 albums as almost a different band.
I still have it on cassette too. But other than As The Worm Turns & Pills For Breakfast, Introduce Yourself was a huge improvement.
I prefer both the chuck mosely albums to the real thing and album of the year
Ironic you start off with pantera & metal magic seeing as this video is released on dimes birthday, happy birthday darrell!
The Haunted Self-titled kicks ass, every song is killer.
Necrotic Nick- Think it's good but I think they really found their sound on the next 2 albums.
Judas Priest comes to mind. Also, Accept has a very different sounding debut from the others in the discography
Necrotic Nick- We thought about that one but we wanted to get some deeper cuts on here.
What Rocka Rolla is phenomenal!!
I've always dug Rocka Rolla. I prefer it to The Scorpions' debut, which I also think is cool.
90's was a thorn on the side of thrash metal. The first The Haunted record was a breath of fresh air for us thrashers by the end of the century
A few others come to mind now:
Cattle Decap
Bolt Thrower
Gorguts
Nightwish
Converge
While Made Me Do It is my favorite The Haunted album, their debut kicks ass!
I wore my Thralls of Metal shirt I won to work today, and the looks I got? Whoa, Nelly!. I've got to do it more often. But I digress.
I like this topic.
Harder to think of albums that started out rocky.
One that comes to mind is Dark Angel's We have Arrived.
Another is Sodom's Obsessed by Cruelty, as heavy as it was, it was sloppier than me after 3 beers.
Man, this is tough.
I have to disagree with you about the first SYL. Yeah, it was dumb, but it was f**king heavy.
And man, Devy was so angry, I like that Devy.
And I have to super disagree about the Haunted.
I love that album, and Dolving was so good.
Spat pure venom on that first album.
I loved it.
You guys are killing it.
Keep up the great work.
Necrotic Nick- Hey! Thanks for repping us chuckleheads, man lol. Yeah, I thought it'd be fun to go with the other end of the spectrum with the debut discussions. There's been a lot of suggestions showing up in the comments too so we might have to do a follow up like we did with the last one so hold on to your picks here. I dig but SYL's and The Haunted's debuts but to me they're rough starts compared to how much better the bands got later on and with both I don't think the bands got exactly what they wanted out of their debuts. The behind the scenes stuff with this topic really interesting. Thanks again, man!
My List:
Corrosion of Conformity - All Pre-Blind Material
Dream Theater - When Dream and Day Unite
The Gathering - All pre-Anneke material
Judas Priest - Rock N Rolla
Omnium Gatherum - All pre Redshift Material
Pantera - All pre Cowboys Material
pantera's power metal is a great album imo
Agreed on COC…their early material didn’t do anything for me
The gathering very trve
"Always" THE GATHERING is one of most important albums in my life :) "King for a day" is almost like definition of "death/doom". I really hate vocals on "Almost a dance". But the music itself is very good. "Like fountains" is amazing! My "dream come true" woul be to hear "Almost a dance" with Anneke vocals !
@@butchered_deathmetal I'll just listen to 80s Power Metal like Helloween or Early Blind Guardian instead.
UFO started as Garage Rock Psychedelic jam band. Their first 2 albums would really appeal to Lonesome Crow fans. It's strange that after Michael Schenker joined UFO, and they changed to a style quite similar to the Scorpions popular era. Considering how similar the single Scorpions album that he played on was to the first 2 UFO albums.
Necrotic Nick- I really haven't dove much into UFO honestly so I can say on that one but I do enjoy Lonesome Crow for the oddity that it is in Scorpion's discography.
Lonesome Crow is very underrated in my eyes. I recently ranked all their albums and it was honestly in the middle for me.
Necrotic Nick- Honestly I dig it but I like proggy, jam band stuff. I brought it up more as it being a bit of an initial flop with fans and critics and the band stating it was all over the place because they were searching for their sound. Listening to it you can pretty much hear them actively doing that in each song which I think is really cool.
This topic got me thinking of David Bowie, Alice Cooper and Genesis. All of those debuts (and probably more in that era) have the same "we don't have a sound yet so we'll just putz around with psychedelia and folk rock until we figure it out later" sound.
Necrotic Nick- Those are pretty good ones. We wanted to keep this more metal centric though.
I had a feeling that BTBAM would be mentioned.
I still really like it, even though they would definitely improve.
Thats a fair assessment of my favourite band faith no more i love em myself met chuck a few months before he died at a acoustic gig in the uk👍🏻 r.i.p. chuck.
Necrotic Nick- I still enjoy the Mosely era of the band for what it was but I'm a diehard Patton fan. I can imagine he was interesting to chat with. RIP Chuck.
Here's a true story about the first Quiet Riot. I was reading Bob Daisley's book and he was talking about Randy Rhoades mom. Apparently she was a very accomplished musician, who's opinion Randy really respected, and she told Randy that the first Quiet Riot album was not good music. Randy apparently went into his bedroom and cried. She did however like the first Ozzy album. Bob Daisly-For Facts Sake is a recommended read from a veteran of the business. He had lots to say about Sharon. He really liked Ozzy a lot, which is why he kept going back, but every time he did he'd get screwed over.
Necrotic Nick- I've heard that book is a good one. I know that Bob's relationship with Sharon was pretty contentious but that seems to be par for the course for a lot of people that have had run ins with her.
A few I can think of would be Edge of Sanity, Fates Warning, Dream Theater, Tiamat, Kamelot, Dying Fetus and Crowbar
Most of them are pretty good but all just overshadowed by what came after.
Strapping Young Lad debut is my favorite. Just the drums are a little thin. The Haunted debut is by far their best too!
Necrotic Nick- I gotta disagree on both there. City is SYL's magnum opus in my opinion and one of the most visceral albums of the 90's for me and I think The Haunted became even stronger songwriters with the next 3 albums. I still enjoy both debuts though.
@@thrallsofmetal I am probably biased as I bought those debuts when they first came out. I actually like 'Alien' more than 'City' as well. Somehow it's even more psychotic.
Symphony X - Self-titled, the only album that doesn’t have Russell Allen, so that’s worth mentioning. But I love this album regardless.
Dream Theater - When Dream and Day Unite, I don’t have any problems with this album; in fact it’s my favourite from them. But the period itself is rough since it lacked any promotion and a Tour. And the singer on the record, Charlie Dominici, wasn’t gonna stay long term. And most people associate Dream Theater with their stuff after when they got James Labrie.
Judas Priest - Rocka Rolla, I love this record. But not only does it not define the band, it consist of B-Sides to what the band originally wanted to debut with Sad Wings of Destiny. Though that doesn’t invalidate my enjoyment of the record.
Fates Warning - Night on Brocken, this was a demo released as their debut. Leaning heavy on the Iron Maiden Worship. Still good, but they would go on to do better things.
Manilla Road - After Midnight Live/Invasion, the former was just a broadcasted live performance in a studio that was shelved until many years later. But either way, very different from what they would do later. Still love them.
Yngwie Malmsteen - Rising Force, it mostly comprises of Instrumentals. Unless you’re into Instrumentals and guitar masturbation, this album is simply neat; not necessarily bad per se, but subsequent albums are vast improvements because they have actual songs.
Deep Purple - Shades of Deep Purple, half the album is covers and they would go on to do better stuff.
great topic! some of the best bands ever got off with a rough start but kept swinging for the bleachers and eventually struck gold
I always loved Chimaira's debut. Impossibility of Reason is arguably more of a masterpiece, but I really enjoy the debut too
Reek Of Putrefaction is my least favorite Carcass album. That includes Swan Song.
Necrotic Nick- I left it off because while Reek is lower on my list I'm less of a fan of Swan Song because at least Carcass were innovators with that debut.
I personally adore that album
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember seeing a State of Metal video on Virginia yet. Any plans to cover my home state sometime in the near future?
I'm surprised y'all didn't bring up Carcass or Napalm Death those 2 are the definition of a rough start 😂🤘
I would have loved to play Glamtera on my college radio show. Unfortunately I cannot do that, which sucked. I can only play 90s Pantera, but oh well. If I had a chance to do so, I would play the songs off of Projects in the Jungle. I Am the Night has some jams as well, but Projects in the Jungle is their best album of the glam metal years. I would love to play Celtic Frost's Cold Lake as well, but it's impossible for me unfortunately. Oh well.
Judas Priest
Sepultura's first album with Derrick Green
Necrotic Nick- I thought about throwing on Judas Priest but I went with some albums we hadn't talked about too much. I would count Against but technically it's not a debut.
I really like Against. It was written before Derrick joined the band though. It was a system shock at first but then I really grew to enjoy it
@@Gregbaltzer I've been thoroughly disappointed by exactly two albums as a youngster, Against and Saint Anger
@@joeylummox7330 I really like the songs Choke, Rumors, Old Earth, and that Japanese drumming song I fucking loved. My 2 disappointments as a kid were South of Heaven and the Black Album
@@Gregbaltzer South Of Heaven slaps. Now, everything after Divine Intervention, that's another story.
It's fun if I think that White Zombie's first album is probably my favorite ahahaha. Faith no More in my opinion haven't started being truly great until Angel Dust dropped. That's where the really good stuff is...and on the criminally overlooked King for a Day. Anyway, to each their own.
Necrotic Nick- I've tried multiple times to find something I like about Soul Crusher but for the life of me I just can't find anything I like about it. I'm a huge fan of The Real Thing but Angel Dust is the GOAT for me as far as Faith No More with King for a Day being a close 2nd.
You can probably imagine just how let down I was when I had already been into Kyuss for a few years and I finally got a copy of Wretch😅
Necrotic Nick- Yeah, I got Wretch after I had picked up all their other albums and while I didn't hate it I definitely was a bit let down.
Oh shit, you guts are live!
Yeah that Lamb of God album was one of the very few cds in my collection i got rid of because it just really didn't do anything for me. I wanted to like it but i don't know what it was but because of that i never really checked out their later albums. I like some songs but never listened to their albums as a whole. Its weird too because one of my old drummers from 19 years ago said alot of my guitar style was like Lamb of God at the time lol.
By the way Devastation's Idolatry is a classic. Souls of Sacrifice is a complete banger. I got the cd used about 24 years ago. I remember seeing about 20 cds of Idolatry original Combat print and thought that was kinda funny so i decided to check them out.
Necrotic Nick- I still have a copy. I decided to get the remixed one and it honestly didn't sound much better. There's still songs I really dig on it so it's not flat out terrible. Maybe the album had a subliminal impact on your playing lol. Idolatry was where I started with Devastation and man that album fucking rips. I have a reissue of it from years ago. I think it's a remaster to but holy shit the riffs on that album are so fucking good.
The first album I thought of when I read the video title was Wretch. Cool to see I wasn't the only one
Necrotic Nick- Yeah, that was one that stuck out to me when I made this list. Not really a bad album but it's not indicative of their overall sound at all.
Napalm Death definitely, although they did define a genre.
Maybe Motörhead since S/T is not on the same caliber as Overkill.
Necrotic Nick- I don't think Scum is a bad album and while it was a rocky start given the line up changes it still made a huge impact on music in general. Motorhead I might I agree with you even though I still dig that album.
Scum for me is ok, but they definitely got better. And I also like the first Mötorhead, but they definitely got better too.
Great discussion guys, once again. I’m laughing really hard about your comments on Rob Zombie’s lyrics, lolol haha. Werewolf McDoodoo fluffy tits, methed out Boomhauer. Oh man I’m dying over here, that is hilarious and I couldn’t agree more hahaha.
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! Yeah, even when I was a more diehard Rob Zombie fan I could never defend his lyrics. They're just fuckin' nonsense lol.
Great topic.
I agree on New American Gospel, that's actually my least favorite Lamb of God album, the mix makes it
unlistenable.
Not sure if it's already mentioned and if it's an unpopular opinion, but Napalm Death's Scum is the perfect album for this list, from the production to the fact that each side features a different lineup, you can hear it,
and not in the good way.
I bet people already mentioned Sodom, Kreator, Destruction (all 3 of them very sloppy), Carcass,
Bolt Thrower, Judas Priest, Saxon and Accept.
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! Yeah, we figured we'd go the opposite end of the spectrum from the last one we did. I think the songs themselves are pretty good on New American Gospel but the mix and Randy's vocals make it difficult to listen too. Scum and Reek of Putrefaction have definitely been mentioned on here but I still see them as pivotal albums since they're super influential. We may do a follow up this one with viewer input like with did for the last one.
Really love these videos gents! I don't have any suggestions at the moment, but I am thinking about the topic you talked about here. \m/ \m/
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! We've got a few ideas for topics for now so these are going to show up again.
Cobain said he was a fan of “Psycho head Blowout” by WZ in an interview. The “God of Thunder” Ep is awesome though. Only 2 originals but the disaster blaster re record improves the song a ton from MTDS. “Love Razor” is a killer WZ track as well. 2 gems if your a fan of La sexorcisto
Necrotic Nick- I guess Jon was pretty on the money with that Cobain guess lol. Yeah, I really haven't jammed the God of Thunder EP and that was namely due to Soul Crusher and Make Them Die Slowly kinda putting me off but I might have to give that one a whirl.
Nice. This was a good idea.
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man!
Megadaves first record is kinda mid. especially Mechanix. like, do you want to have relations with that car, Dave?
I know I already said this but Lonesome Crow is my favorite Scorpions album. I love those guitar tones, those big Sabbathesque riffs, and unconventional songs. Their later albums just became straightforward rock. I would say Kreator, Sodom, Carcass, Sepultura, and Bolt thrower had rough starts. I appreciate Reeks a little more now, but Reeks of Putrification sounds worse then most demos. in contrast Symphonies is probably my most go to Carcass album. I appreciate the first Kreator, Sodom, and Sepultura albums for what are but they had more youthful piss and vinegar in them than skill on their first albums , but they really had honed their skills and had a better production by their second albums. In Battle There is No Law is probably the easiest to listen to of all of these bands. I would also add Motorhead to the list, their first album(on Parole) was shelved for a number of years, and we got the self titled, and while I love the first album they really settled more into their sound with Bomber and Overkill. Slipknot-Mate, Feed, Kill, Repeat. The band says it was a demo, but we all know the truth that it was their first album. Judas Priest-Rocka Rolla. It's not the album the band wanted to make. The label and producer refused to let them put a lot of their club favorites on the album(which would end up on their second album), the producer took all the heaviness out of the guitars, against the wishes of the band, and this is what we got. Still, it's an album I put on more then Nostradomus, and it's a relaxing/chill listen. Ministry-With Sympathy. The album Al Jurgansen hated for a really long time. It wasn't the music he wanted to make, but was forced to by the label. White Zombie-Everything up to God of Thunder EP(which I like) is really hard for me to get into, even though I have the Let Sleeping Corpses Lie box set, so I've listened to it all once, at the most twice.
Necrotic Nick- Honestly, I dig Lonesome Crow as well but I put it on the list because it wasn't well received initially and the band said they were still searching for a sound at the point. It's a weird, kinda aimless but fun jam session of an album but I think when Uli joined it got better. Honestly, I dig a lot of that early stuff from those bands and honestly my biggest gripe with those might just be the production on them. Motorhead was in consideration for this one. I don't think it's a bad debut but it does feel like they hadn't found their sound yet on that one. I honestly forgot about With Sympathy lol. For me Ministry really starts at Land. I'm not even that much of a fan of Twitch to be honest. I still argue that Mate, Feed, Kill Repeat is more of a demo I know there's a debate there. I own a boot of it and it's pretty awful lol. I left off Judas Priest since we already covered that one in the ranking fairly recently and I wanted to get a good mix of stuff on here.
Hey... another great idea for a video.
Nonetheless I must disagree strongly with some picks. Heavy As A Really Heavy Thing is one hell of an album. I mean it's goofy and an extravaganza, a rare mix of bile and humour. And I agree it holds no water to City and Alien but IMO is better than The New Black, a record where half of the songs sound way more like Dev's solo project (some of them were indeed meant to, like Fucker) and leagues above the self-titled that is more based in straight Death Metal than SYL (and the one Dev had the less input). The Haunted's debut is also a blast and in this case it's even weirder, since it's my second favorite by the band, only surpassed by the pristine rEVOLVEr. This is full speed Slayer inspired madness. And yes, it came out at a time when it was most needed (during the Nu Metal plague). Finally, IMO, We Care A Lot is a great album. While being quite different, it's a burst of originality. Plus, it features excellent tracks (We Care A Lot, As The Worm Turns, Mark Bowen, The Jungle) and taking in account it was released in 1985 this is crazy ahead of its time. IMO it's on the same page as any other record by the band that is not named Angel Dust or The Real Thing (both on a league of their own) and better than the boring Sol Invictus.
P.s. : I also like Lonesome Crow but then again, I don't like any other Scorpions record, so I get the point. I prefer the psycho/prog nuances of this album but if the standard of excellence is their posterior work, indeed this was a wobbly start.
A cool topic which makes a interesting discussion. One album that’s to my mind is Bleeding Through’s debut Dust to Ashes. BT are one of my all time favorite bands but that album is by far their weakest and my least favorite.
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! We thought this would be a fun one to do. Honestly, I agree with that one. I don't own Bleeding Through's debut but I've jammed it and This is Love, This is Murderous blew that debut away.
@@thrallsofmetalPortrait of of the Goddess too
Speaking of Chimaira, Daath too. Futility isn't necessarily bad, but veeeeery rough. Compare that to The Hinderers.
Necrotic Nick- Man, I totally forgot there was an album before The Hinderer's honestly. I'm not sure If I've ever jammed it but I'll check it out at least.
The first Acacia Strain for sure
My answers would be Carcass and Cattle Decapitation but I might be the wrong person to ask since Grindcore isn't really my genre anyways. I will go with Symphony X and while we are at it, Dream Theater. Both seemed confused before they really captured their sound and evolved it. I still love When Day and Dream Unite though but would never say it's a "great start"
Necrotic Nick- Your most definitely not the first person to bring up Reek so don't worry about that. Cattle Decapitation I can see some arguments for too. I left off Dream Theater because I kinda dig that one and honestly I'm not that familiar with Symphony X's material so I can't really say on that one. We might do a follow up like we did for the last one about debuts just because we're getting some really good one's worth discussing here.
@@thrallsofmetal I understand completely. Carcass and Cattle's debuts are perfectly listenable as I just gave them another turn recently and have no problem with them. Dream Theater's is still one of my personal favorites with songs like Afterlife, Only A Matter of Time, A Fortune in Lies and obviously Ytse Jam. That is why my pick is Symphony X's for sure.
Fun video! I had a big list, but I figured I should pare it down to a handful:
Accept - Accept: It's not bad, but they definitely needed a few albums to get where they were going.
Anthrax - Fistful of Metal: A rough start and a different vocalist. There's some decent ideas, but definitely not like what they would do later.
Anvil - Hard 'n' Heavy: I know they're the hardest working band in metal, but their debut makes Kiss sound like Mozart.
Blind Guardian - Battalions of Fear: 80s Speed metal at the start, and it's pretty rough, though there are some decent moments. The power metal doesn't happen until their third.
Cirith Ungol - Frost and Fire: Another rough start before they really nail their heavy/doom style. The second half of this album is just bland.
DreamTheater - When Dream and Day Unite: I'm surprised this one didn't get on. (Maybe if ShredLord was in the video.) While it's not a bad album, it's very different, mostly in the production.
Kamelot - Eternity: "Call to the Sea" is a good ballad, but the rest doesn't feel very well put together. Again, they get better by the third album (especially with Roy Khan!).
Scorpions - Lonesome Crow: I like this as well (much more than Fly to the Rainbow), but it is definitely a different style than what they would become.
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! Honestly, there's only a few on here I know well enough to comment on and one of them is in the video. I still dig Fistful of Metal and When Dream and Day Unite but there's definitely an argument to be made there. We're probably gonna do a follow up to this one at some point so hold on to some of these.
I’m probably one of the few people that absolutely love White Zombie’s debut. They were influenced by the nearly unlistenable noise rock of Butthole Surfers, The Birthday Party, and The Fall and I don’t think they get enough credit for making a great album in that style. The album is also like proto-sludge metal with the dissonant and sometimes slow songs like Drowning the Colossus (the samples they used are very Eyehategod too), Tom Five (Tom Guay) was also hella influential on future noise rock guitarists (Kurt Cobain named him as a big influence).
Edit: not surprised you guys didn’t like it haha, admittedly I don’t listen to Soul-Crusher regularly but it is my go-to for ultra sweaty noise rock. I actually like Make Them Die Slowly less because it feels like a total compromise album before Yeunger joined the band and they had a marketable style. Good video nonetheless (and the methed out Boomhauer comparison is kinda accurate too lmao)
Ministry, alll of teutonic 4 , Fear Factory, Chimaira, Mastodon, Devastation...
Necrotic Nick- Some good one for discussion here but I think Endless Pain, Remission and Soul of a New Machine were killer but you could make arguments that Soul didn't make that much of an impact.
@@thrallsofmetal for me, it's sloppiness and poor production with Kreator,Sodom and even Destruction despite Infernal Overkill being a classic album (PtK was huge improvement over Endless Pain so is Persecution mania over ObC) Remission and Souls while being good experimental albums, were kind of all over the place.
Chimaira are the poster band for this. They went on an amazing run after Pass Out, and they’ve been a favorite of mine since. Pass Out was levels below the follow up material though for sure.
Necrotic Nick- I still feel like it was the timing of that debut that plays a big factor. Roadrunner probably signed them to capitalize on the nu metal thing but didn't bank on dying out so quickly so the band was stuck between two worlds essentially. There was potential though and they reached it with those next 3 for sure.
Dream theater and Opeth come to mind
Necrotic Nick- I honestly dig both of those but I can see the argument there.
Dream Theater yes, Opeth no.
Chimaira's Pass out of existence was a strong and interesting listen because of how different it sounds by comparing every generic nu metal releases in 01 with adding some extreme metal influence until 2 years later their 2nd album Impossibility of reason accomplishes the sound. And It looks like Slipknot's IOWA isn't alone of integrating extreme metal into nu metal that same year it released.
Necrotic Nick- I don't dislike it but it's really uneven like they didn't know which way to go with their sound. Nu metal was on it's way out but it was still clinging on a bit in '01 and you could tell the next thing was coming. Chimaira, Slipknot and even bands like Dry Kill Logic and Down the Sun were very much transitional bands but most of them grew out of it entirely, adapted or fizzled out.
I saw Chimaira’s “Pass out of Existence” and I clicked. Love that album to death, even though most don’t share that sentiment. For some reason it got lumped in Nu-Metal, which I never fully agreed on. It is a very heavy groovy album loaded down with double bass and rapid patterns, some industrial stuff, but overall I don’t hear the normal Nu-Metal cliches on this album. My only gripe with the mix is that Jim’s bass hardly cuts through at all. Looking forward to this 👍
Necrotic Nick- That was my first Chimaira album so I still have a soft spot for it but we go into a lot of reasons why it may have been a rough start with member changes, the timing of the release and them kinda be stuck between nu metal and the blossoming metal scene that was coming up with Killswitch Engage and Lamb of God.
@@thrallsofmetal Yeah they actually had a bit of hurdles with the album’s release, and it was kind of weird time.
An easy one for me is Obscura’s “Retribution.” I wouldn’t say it’s bad, it definitely has its moments. But the rest of their albums absolutely blow it out of the water as far as I’m concerned. I sometimes forget Cosmogenesis was not their first album lol.
Necrotic Nick- Honestly, I'd probably agree there. It's still good but when compared to Cosmogenesis it gets really exposed if only because Cosmogenesis corrected all the stuff that didn't hit as hard with the debut.
Chimaira debut album is one of there best impossibility of reason is definitely there best there 3 album was pretty but and there 4th is amazing but after that they fell off. The ep before they were signed is there best imo heavy as shit .
Necrotic Nick- They definitely fell off with their last 2 but that 3 album run from Impossibility of Reason to Resurrection is sick as hell. This Present Darkness has some killer stuff on it as did Pass Out of Existence but I don't think they had the focus yet but they had the potential.
White zombies frist album was a rough start but after that they went METAL with make them die slowly, God of thunder,devil music and ASTRO creep, personally for me make them die and devil music where my favorites
Necrotic Nick- Yeah, the pre-La Sexorcisto material is a bit rough to me but J Yuenger's inclusion steadily made them a tighter band over the years.
@thrallsofmetal you should really check out the make them die slowly songs with Jay on guitar live they sound amazing when he joined Their goal was to take the seven songs off that album and fix them live the way they wanted
I love the haunted debut. I think it looked at it was going to be at the gates 2.0. I think this album rips
Necrotic Nick- I still like it but I think the fans expected something closer to At the Gates and when compared to Made Me Do it, One Killer Wonder and even Revolver it does feel a bit lackluster.
Micheal came back for love drive
Necrotic Nick- I totally forgot about that. That was pretty short lived too.
@@thrallsofmetal killer album though
Agreed, La Sexorcisto is the best place to start for White Zombie
Necrotic Nick- J brought the riffs.
After the Burial maybe? This is a hard one for me 🤔
Napalm Death and Carcass comes to mind and I’m sure I will piss some people off for saying that 😅
Necrotic Nick- While I enjoy albums by both of those bands more than their debuts both Scum and Reek of Putrefaction are landmark, genre defining albums so I think they got off to a good start honestly.
@@thrallsofmetal Yeah and I absolutely respect those albums for what they did.. That being said, both personally and litteraly, I find those albums to be a very rough listen.
Kind of the definition of "Rough Listen," lol.
As i lay dying and killswitch engage and meshuggah
Necrotic Nick- I'd agree with the first As I Lay Dying but I still dig both Killswitch Engage's and Meshuggah's debuts. We might do a follow up to this one like we did with the last one so hold on to these.
Metal magic was just bizarre. Pantera absolutely found their actual sound later.
Necrotic Nick- Agreed. Lots of growing pains with that debut.
I´d throw in the mix:
Pestilence - well yes, it´s not that bad, but definitely not the sound they would grow to be
Benediction - Oh the production ...
Gorefest - this techy sound was just not theirs, they were way better doing the simple thing later
Anacrusis - it´s a shame people don´t know this band anymore ... except for the first album .... okay, it´s not that bad too, but too close to Slayer and badly produced, not their real sound
Necrotic Nick- Man, I honestly love all those albums. While Pestilence's debut was more of a thrash album it's still awesome. The only thing I could knock Benediction's debut on is probably the production but it still established their sound well. I love Gorefest's Mindloss. Honestly it's one of my favorite albums by them and the same with Anacrusis. It's all subjective though as we all here music differently.
@@thrallsofmetal Well opinions differ, that´s it.
At least You know Anacrusis, so I´m pleased.
Though my favourite will always be Manic Impressions. Top ten alltime Metal album. That good.
I would say SYL debute is great. It is just insane. There are cuple of monets where i just burst out laughing but its still special😂
And kyuss debute is primitive but still good... I have a fealing like Garcia is draggin his balls all over the studio
Necrotic Nick- I still enjoy it but it's pretty much got ADD energy and it can go off the rails a bit. I think they reigned it in on City and got way more focused on the rage and riffs on that one. Kinda the same with Wretch except I think they smoked more indica for the next album lol.
The Haunted is a good take. I wasn’t into that album at the time because I was getting into Metalcore. I think it’s a really good album now though. Great video.
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! I still enjoy that debut but I think The Haunted found their sound more on the next 2 albums rather than on the debut. The found away to still be thrashy but give it a bit of that old At the Gates sound too.
Is Contradictions Collapse a spicy take? I don't hate it, but it's immensely forgettable, especially given their later output.
And Orchid by Opeth. Actually the album that got me into Opeth, but I can't tolerate it after exploring the rest of their discography
Hot take but Deftones
Not a hot take, one of their worst albums for sure.
Necrotic Nick- I think there's an argument there. There might be an album I like less but in comparison to where they are now I might agree with that... I still love that album though.
The look on Jon's face when the box of Polaroids comes up. 🤌
Necrotic Nick- I always try to break him with a joke during these.
I think you missed the obvious one with Meshuggah though. Who still listens to their first album ? It sounds like bad Pantera. Two other bands that I love but have very "meh" first albums are Neurosis and Tool. Undertow is "ok" rock/metal but doesn't sound like what Tool will become. And for Neurosis, well before Steve Von Till joined, they were doing a really mediocre punk style which just wasn't anything remarkable.
We call this the Judas Priest effect. Their debut wasn't their worst but it's not a patch on what they would become. The same could be said for Accept and Saxon as far as older bands go.
Necrotic Nick- Yeah, we left off Judas Priest since we just covered that debut in a our ranking and it didn't get the highest of marks. We might do a follow up to this one like we did for the last debut album discussion honestly.
QotSA. I like that album, but it’s a far cry from Songs For the Deaf.
I’ll say it eventhough this may not be a popular take, just know when I say this, they’re my favorite band. Death’s Scream Bloody Gore is the poster child for this. Their first album was about a vision of what Chuck wanted to sound like. The execution is lacking. And it’s the only album from their catalog where that can be said.
Necrotic Nick- I think QOTSA's debut is awesome. Honestly it's still a favorite of mine but few things in their discography matches Songs for the Deaf in my opinion.
I'd say Prong-force fed
Undecided John lol oh man Nick you have me dying laughing!!!!
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man! I'm sure Jon's loving the new nickname lol
huge Unearth fan never liked Sting on Conscious. It has it's moments but overall would be dead last if i had to rank them.
I know it's a metal channel, but pink floyd immediately came to mind, at least in terms of commercial success
Necrotic Nick- I honestly, need to dive into the Syd Barrett material to really make that call.
Yes! Pink Floyd is my favorite band, but Piper At The Gates Of Dawn is absolutely not for me; for me Floyd begins with their sophomore record, Saucerful Of Secrets.
Gilmour >>> Barrett
I don’t know if this is a hot take, but Orchid by Opeth kinda bores the hell out of me
Necrotic Nick- Hey! Sup, man! I can understand that one and it's not my favorite by far but I still think it made pretty solid impact and it's one of the few in their discography that has some blackened vibes to it.
Fit For An Autopsy’s debut Process Of Human Extinction. It was alright but their second album Hellbound was so much better with the added melodies
Necrotic Nick- Honestly, I'd agree. I just thought that debut was stock deathcore when I heard it and I pretty much ignored the band until their last two which I think I solid albums.
Bolt Thrower- In Battle There Is No Law
I'll say this, it is not a bad album, I love grind, and BT only full on grindcore album, it's awesome. BUT!!!!! The production was not the greatest, songwriting was good, and the most obvious one, their later catalogs of BT are beyond better than their debut
D.R.I with the Dirty Rotten LP. The production is not great and the performances are mostly sloppy. Most of the songs were re done better on Dealing With It which was a huge step up overall. Then started leaninf into groove and found the style they stuck with from Crossover til Full Speed Ahead.
I have to mention Neurosis. To go from the crusty street punk of Pain of Mind to something like Souls at Zero in the span of five years is shocking, even if Pain of Mind did feature some well competent songwriting.
Necrotic Nick- Man, I totally forgot about that one. Honestly the first 2 Neurosis albums are kinda oddities when you think about it. Souls at Zero is where it really started to come together at least in my opinion.
@@thrallsofmetal Totally agreed. The Word as Law has always been their most interesting album to me. They're still a punk band but those heavier avant garde leanings really start to show up.
Then Souls at Zero shows up and brings seven trumpets with it. 😂
i would say Prong Force Fed Beg To Differ is just a better album have Prong The Vault dvd which is a great concert dvd
The Cannibal Corpse debut was questionable. I wouldn't call it a bad album. It's pretty good for a non technical Sepultura album minus the incredible guitar leads
Necrotic Nick- I still really dig that one and I'd say it's still a fan favorite to a lot of people. That's a tougher call for me.
Idolatry is possibly top 10 favourite thrash albums ever for me.
Necrotic Nick- That album is criminally underrated.
It's not Phil Labonte's clean vocals on that Shadows Fall album. It's guitarist Matt Bachand. Still pretty flat though.
Necrotic Nick- Man, I always thought those were Phil's because Matt got a lot better at singing on the later albums. Well, I didn't think Phil's growls were very good either.
I’d choose New American Gospel over every album post Sacrament. Also, JJ is 100%, Ashes of the Wake is indeed perfection…
Same. The production is ass but the songs are creative as hell and I don't think there were really other bands doing the same thing. It's exciting to listen to - which is what some of Lamb of God's later stuff lost in my opinion.
Necrotic Nick- I still like Wrath but honestly that's the last one I've really dug.
For me it's Carcass' debut. I will take dumbed-down/catchy Carcass (Swansong) over unintelligible Carcass. I respect it for being pivotal to Goregrind, but my respect ends there.
Necrotic Nick- I enjoy Reek for the swampy, gross but highly influential album that it is. I still can't get into Swansong minus a few songs. That album bored me to tears.
Surprised Anthrax ain't here
Dream Theater comes to mind immediately with this discussion. Not a terrible album but definitely not a great one compared to what would follow immediately after it.
Being a person who is not remotely a fan of old grindcore, I will also put Napalm Death and Carcass firmly in that category, although obviously their impact on the genre cannot be understated even if they're not my cup of tea, it's purely a personal take instead of an objective one. Also seen a couple of others say Judas Priest and Accept. I'd be inclined to agree with both, although I will say the 2nd Accept album was way rougher than the debut
Necrotic Nick- I had Dream Theater on the list for a bit but I honestly kinda dig that album and while I understand not everyone being big into grindcore Scum and Reek of Putrefaction I see as genre defining albums in terms of pioneering new ground in extreme metal in general so I left them off. Judas Priest was a consideration too but I honestly haven't heard Accept's debut so I can't say on that one. This one should be fun though.
I'd say The Jesus & Mary Chain's debut, Psychocandy, is the definition of a "Rough Start." 😂🤣🤣
Necrotic Nick- Honestly, I've never listened to that one so I might have to check it out just to hear it now.
@@thrallsofmetal It's a lot of FEEDBACK...and then Just Like Honey comes on.
But if you have listened to them, and I hope you have, Darklands is absolutely fucking essential.
I'll actually take the first LoG album over the formulaic, phoned in shit they've been doing as of late
I actually really like Pass Out Of Existence and This Present Darkness
Necrotic Nick- I think they're decent but they're also a bit aimless. The potential was definitely there though and when they got focused they killed it with the next 3.
@@thrallsofmetal Yeah, their “holy trinity” of Impossibility, Self titled, and Resurrection is incredible
I'm not a huge fan of LoG. But any big enough list of best metal albums ever, say top 25, really ought include Sacrament. That record has TEETH.
Necrotic Nick- Honestly, I prefer Ashes of the Wake to Sacrament but they're both solid albums.
I’d throw in Infernal Battles from Deathspell Omega. While their later albums are very experimental, well crafted, well written, and tight, the debut album is a pretty subpar generic offering of second wave black metal. Bad production, uneven mixing, countless lyrical cliches, generic riffs and vocals, I could go on.
Some other albums I’d include:
Behemoth - Sventevith (Storming Near the Baltic)
Voivod - War and Pain
Rush - Rush
Arch Enemy - Black Earth
Judas Priest - Rocka Rolla
Motörhead - Motörhead
No "...I dated a girl who was into..."-story from Jon??
Necrotic Nick- Not this time I guess.
I'm going to submit probably a not so popular pick and that pick is Megadeths Killing is My Business and Business is Good. Alot of it has to do with production but it being Mustaines answer or shot at Metallica it falls short. Sure it's faster but the songs are not as good, the performances are sloppy, and it's just not a good debut from the band that will release Peace Sells not long after this album. Just saying.
Novembre - Wish I Could Dream it Again: awful debut in terms of production, performances, etc. Later they would release some really great records and even re-record their debut (called Dreams d’Azure) which made it WAY better. They really hit their stride with Classica to Novembrine Waltz (3rd and 4th records).
Necrotic Nick- I'm still not very familiar with Novembre's material. It's just one of those bands I never got around to listening to but I might have to check it out.
Ministry
Necrotic Nick- I didn't think about that one until people started bringing it up. For me, Ministry starts as Land so I often forget about With Sympathy and even Twitch but I'd have to agree with you. We might do a follow up like we did last time so hold on to that one.
Undecided Jon is his new name lol
Necrotic Nick- It's kinda missing the "J" theme though lol
A methed out boomhauer. Nice!😄
Necrotic Nick- Thanks, man!