Powerful contrast in seeing the differences between scriptural statements of the Bible and the Islamic view. I really am greatful to have learned of your presentations and seem to find a greater understanding of issues I have wondered about for many years. May Allah bless you and reward you in this life and the next. Thank you!
Thank you Paul for another beautiful content. I learned about a solid reference book because of you. I am not sure if this is just a sufi interpretation though. My understanding of Islam, coming from a mainstream madrasa channel is that this understanding is the mainstream belief in Islam. All the concepts of friend of God, hadith qudsi, revelation to humans and animals are Quranic concepts. Indeed, the helennistic influences on christianity, hence the notion of trinity sounds rather forceful from monotheistic point of view. It reminds me of Greek mythology about gods, demigods and humans, where there's a continuous spectrum between creatures and the Creator. Btw, I think today's turmoil is exactly because of the mixed Christian message. In one hand christianity came with a message of truthfulness and morality, on the other hand, its trinitarian beliefs raise objections in human reasoning and science. Islam on the other hand, has intelligible theology and the message. It's message has a spectrum from justice to mercy. Has no celibacy issues, and offers a well preserved Book. Islam's issue is that its jurisprudence and its thought is not actively engaged with the current world. Therefore there's a huge inertia around it. So, my understanding is that especially when the western minds become Muslim and apply Islam to today's world, it will become a beautiful practical guidance for the future. Would like to hear your views on this. Assalamu alaikum
This hadith : Abu Hurairah relates that the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, said: Allah says: Whoever is at enmity with one whom I befriend should beware of having to do battle with Me. When a servant of Mine seeks to approach Me through that which I like best out of what I have made obligatory upon him, and continues to advance towards Me by dint of voluntary effort beyond that prescribed then I begin to love him. When I love him I become his ears by which he hears, and his eyes with which he sees, and his hands with which he grasps, and his feet with which he walks. When he asks Me I bestow upon him and when he seeks My protection I protect him. (Bokhari) Anas relates that the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, said: Allah says: When a servant of Mine advances towards Me a foot, I advance towards him a yard, and when he advances towards Me a yard, I advance toward him the length of his arms spread out. When he comes to Me walking, I go to him running. (Bokhari) Ayesha relates: the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, stood so long during his voluntary Prayer at night that the skin of his feet would crack; so I said to him: Messenger of Allah, why do you stand so long in Prayer when Allah has suppressed in you in the past and for the future all inclinations towards sin? He answered: Then should I not wish to be a grateful servant of Allah? (Bokhari and Muslim) In no way it means that the person becomes Holy only his whole being is very connected to God everything in his life is with God doing anything to please God. They are very humble usually they don't ask for much for themselves only for helping out God's creation. And yes God grant them with gifts every now and then but usually they don't talk about...they are almost like Angels on this earth...
Interesting,i was reading about the pope of the catholic church today that,he admited to a close friend of him (in private)that he believes that jesus is not god.
@@suflateef2049 based on the fact it was a later innovation that the Prophet (pbuh) and his companions did not practice. So please do not keep going after the subject that you know not about, as per the 4th Caliph Hazrat Ali.
What this Nabil guy is saying is an example of the height of ignorance amongst Muslims 🤦 really sad. Conflict amongst Muslims (especially about things that are less important or insignificant) is a powerful tool of satan and non-believers. @SUFLATEEF ignore such people. They're most likely not looking for knowledge, just fighting and to boost their ego.
Dear Christian brothers "Life can come without Father too, Did Hen come first or Egg, same for all Animals, who is Father of first animals each. "Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created Him from dust; then He said to him, "Be," and he was." Quran 3:59
" God Emptied" is "God Not"! The major corruption that Paul had done is that he deviated the pure monotheistic teachings ( to worship one and only God) of Jesus (pbuh) towards worshipping of an another being,equal to God. He Proclaimed that Jesus is someone equal to God,and introduced the theory of "emptied God": " Christ Jesus who, though existing in the form of God, did not consider his equality with God something to cling to, but emptied himself as he took on the form of a slave and become like human being " ( The letter of Paul to the Philippians 2:6) All the creations of God are submitted to and are dependent on Him...if according to Paul's theory God emptied Himself and took the form of a slave, then who was the master and controller of the Universe during that period of time, or does it suggest that there were two gods simultaneously, one emptied and another full of powers, but this is an open blasphemy and it leads to polytheism (to worship others equal to God) God Almighty has ever been and will ever remain the most powerful the only God. It is absolutely illogical to think of Him being emptied or devoid of Himself for any moment, because God " emptied" is God not any more
Very informative. Tim Winters is very interesting to listen to. Can you unravel this term "theopathic locution". It rather sounds like a disease! Like gastropathy or osteopathy.
In this verse, I think it seems pretty clear, that Paul is preaching that Jesus has the same nature as God-essentially a Trinitarian conception of Jesus and God. What is your view? ''For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily'' Colossians 2:9
@@BloggingTheology The commentaries on this verse are essentially saying that the Trinitarian interpretation is the most obvious. Here is an example: ''These words also emphasize the human aspect of Jesus. Some taught that Jesus was divine, but not fully human. Paul clearly noted Jesus was physically human while also fully divine (John 1:1). Though modern skeptics often argue belief in the deity of Jesus was a later development, Paul clearly believed and wrote about the deity of Jesus in this letter, which was written around AD 60-62. This was a teaching Paul said he received from the apostles after his conversion, which occurred within three years of the resurrection (Galatians 1:18). The doctrine of Jesus' deity is not a later invention, but the teaching of the eyewitnesses of Jesus.''
@@franciscollins18 how can we get correct answer from a cooked up text. There are many glaring contradictions in the Bible which does not require rocket science to prove but still they don't want to accept who can help? Only the day of Judgement will decide, so let us wait.
1. It is open to interpretation and doesn't say that explicitly 2. It is just a letter from Paul and his opinion. There is no evidence that Paul was inspired by God but a good argument can be made that he was the opposite.
Where did Winter’s get the idea ‘Jews shaped the monotheistic view in Arabia’? They had no effect on the polytheists who lived around them.Sounds like mere speculation. Similarly where does the notion of saint or wali come in? The Prophet (saww) is conveying God’s message to his servants. Winter seems to echo a common error in the Sufi enterprise . No Muslim would even consider that this was not God speaking through his servant, and not the Prophet(saww). Monotheism in Arabia and across the globe was shaped by Islam.
There were Haneefs in Arabia, prophet being one of them, they were strictly monotheistic before nebihood started. Haneefs claimed to follow the religion of Abraham and rejected the other deities of their clans and did not worship the idols of those deities.
This is all very well, but quoting John's gospel in order to dispel ideas of Jesus' divinity is like trying to put out a fire with petrol. Start with John 1 and you see exactly what the Gospel writer's Christology is. Everything (yes everything) else iin the gospel is subservient to that. So cherry-picking verses out of John's gospel to show that Jesus is not divine is 1. poor scholarship 2. ignorant as the the correct use of scripture 3. disingenuous But we are used to this. Muslims do like cherry-picking other peoples' scriptures, but cry foul when someone does it to the Qur'an. If you doubt the accuracy of John's gospel, fine. Jettison it if you want. But if you do insist on using what it teaches, do yourself a favour and treat it as a whole. Treating it otherwise only marks you out as a fool.
@@Gggggggglllk Christian theology is developed by taking scripture and deriving our understanding of God from scripture. Effectively it means going where scripture takes you, regardless of where you end up. What Paul (and Prof Tim Winter) do is take a philosophical stance and then cherry-pick those verses they like from scripture which support their philosophy, while rejecting or calling into question those which disagree with their views. The former method is honest, and empirically-minded. The latter method is effectively defining who God is, and then scrabbling around wildly trying to support your suppositions. Atheists often come up with the trope that God is made in man's image. Paul's way of doing things merely proves them right.
@@mikehutton3937 but brother how can you refer back to your scripture when your own scholars agree that Bible has been changed? Which scripture do we refer back to? There are hundreds of different bibles. Not different translations, different bibles. So what scripture are we referring to exactly. In my whole life I’ve never met 2 different Christians that believe in the same thing. Why is this?
@@Gggggggglllk There are errant translations, to be sure. But we're about as confident as you get that the Greek manuscripts we have allow us to translate the Bible into whichever language you like and retain the same teachings as those of the early church. If you're honest enough to translate it accurately and without bias, that is. I'm not quite sure what you mean by "different Bibles". The main difference you'll find is that the Catholic ("Jerusalem") bibles contain additional apocryphal books such as 1&2 Maccabees, Ecclesiasticus, and Judith. Omission of these books by Protestants is done on historical doctrinal grounds. We know what went on there. The inclusion of these books merely provides support for secondary doctrines which are held by Catholics but not other parts of the global Church. But they do not change the central themes or teaching of the church. No two people believe exactly the same things, and so you'll find this with Christians as well. But if you ask a Christian who Jesus is, what He taught, and what we must to to gain salvation, you won't end up with a lot of variation. When it comes to the core tenets of faith, Catholic. Orthodox, and Protestant all believe in the Trinitarian view of God, the divinity of Jesus as the Word and Son of God, in His death and resurrection, and that by believing in His name we can be saved. The treatment of the Bible is slightly different between different groups. Most Christians believe that the Bible is divinely inspired but written by men as the record of God's dealings with mankind through the nation of Israel through to the ministry of Jesus of Nazareth and the formation of the Church. What we don't believe (or at least the vast majority don't) is that the Bible is the directly dictated words of God. In that sense it is not seen as inerrant/divine in the same way as the Qur'an is believed to be by Muslims.
10:16 Arabian knew about monotheism not because of Jewish presence, cant believe the author who is a Muslim or sufi muslim, say that!! rather Ibrahim came to Arabia and Ismael!! and there were few montheist "haneefieen" in Arabia and they have name for them.. few generation before they were also.. only one Amar ibn luhahi brought first idols they corrupted the religions or a bit before.. what a statament!! i
Murad here is peddling the generic 19th century boilerplate. And he just assumes a pristine and uniform conception of Semitic monotheism, which was only then "diluted" in the Near East by pagan Hellenists. For one thing, the Near East hardly needed Greeks to be familiarized with the idea of polytheism, as Biblical history makes clear. He also has this baseless idea that the conception of Jesus as divine is some historically late distortion read into the Jewish writings of the New Testament by foreign minds under the influence of Hellenic thought. Again this is false. Historically we know that there were Jews even in pre-Christian times that had a multi-personal understanding of God, and a pre-Christian belief in a divine-incarnate Messiah, which is abundantly clear in the earliest, Jewish Gospel of Mark. Bart Ehrman, who Muslims love to cite, himself admits that the author of Mark believed Jesus was divine. Murad alludes to the Jesus poem of Philippians 2, which is one of the oldest extant pieces of Christian writing, though he seemingly fails to realize that it in all likelihood was written by a Jew who also clearly affirmed the divinity of Christ. I'm also amused by his understanding of the Gospel of John as affirming the Muslim view of Jesus, and that it was only misread by Christians under the influence of Euro-pagan thought. This seems like a popular notion among Muslims, despite the fact that the Gospel of John is most explicit in affirming Christ's divinity, and therefore contradicting the Islamic view of Jesus. In John 1 it's made quite clear that Jesus is divine incarnate. It would be amusing to see an attempt made to reconcile John 8:58, 14:6 and 17:5 with the Islamic idea of Jesus.
Read Sir Anthony Buzzards book. Unitarians will completely deny the trinity. The trinity is nowhere to be found in the Jewish scriptures. No rabbi will read the old testament and find God to be a man. Regarding Bart Erhman. He doesn't think that the gospels are reliable for one and demonstrates that the evolution of jesus divinity is made throughout the gospels. Certain statements made in John which are much more explicit to make a claim of divinity, are not to be found in the earlier gospels, which is very questionable in itself. Regardless of this. Please, yourself demonstrate where jesus explicitly claims to be God.
@@BloggingTheology That's only one interpretation. It's not an explicit denial, for one thing. For another, it's entirely in-keeping with Jesus in the Gospel of Mark to be cryptic in what he says, especially to the uninitiated. Mark 4:10-12: "And when he was alone, those around him with the twelve asked him about the parables. And he said to them, 'To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, so that ''they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be forgiven.'" In Mark 14:62, Jesus refers to himself as "coming in the clouds of heaven," which is a Biblical usage reserved for God. This is why the high priest he's talking to at the time loses it and calls for him to be executed for blasphemy. Even your boy Bart Ehrman admits that the Synoptics depict Jesus as divine.
@@yeahbuddy4712 Firstly, Ehrman states that the Synoptics and John affirm that Jesus is divine, so he'd disagree with your Unitarians. Trinitarian theology is ample in the New Testament, and there were certainly Jews who believed in a multi-personality divinity in the Old Testament, the "Two Powers in Heaven" sect. I've listened to Unitarians, but I find their arguments bizarre and against the plain reading of scripture, IMO. Christian writings since the earliest times affirm Jesus's divinity, the divinity of the Holy Spirit, etc., which I'm far more inclined to go with than anomalous, forced Unitarian interpretations. I mean, you yourself have just repeatedly asserted that the Gospels/NT writings DO affirm Jesus's divinity. So we both think the Unitarians are not on a firm footing. "Please, yourself demonstrate where jesus explicitly claims to be God." It's all so tiresome when Muslims pretend that Jesus never claims divinity in the New Testament. Revelation 1:8: "I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." Revelation 22:13: (Jesus, as evidenced by verse 22:16) "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." Also John 8:58: "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am." (This is of course a parallel to Exodus 3:14 wherein God proclaims himself to be "I am"/Ehyeh) Also relevant from John is 17:5: "And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed." In any case, the "high Christology" ideas of John can also be found in the earliest NT writings: Compare John 1:3 with 1 Corinthians 8:6. There are of course statements in the synoptic Gospels etc. that indicate Jesus is divine, but you wouldn't accept those as explicit, I imagine.
Dear Christian brothers "Life can come without Father too, Did Hen come first or Egg, same for all Animals, who is Father of first animals each. "Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created Him from dust; then He said to him, "Be," and he was." Quran 3:59
![ARGENTINA vs. BOLIVIA [6-0] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 10](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/C3wPtKNbAOA/mqdefault.jpg)
Powerful contrast in seeing the differences between scriptural statements of the Bible and the Islamic view. I really am greatful to have learned of your presentations and seem to find a greater understanding of issues I have wondered about for many years. May Allah bless you and reward you in this life and the next. Thank you!
Excellent Work Br. Paul
Greatly enjoyed it, thanks and take care.
nice , absolutely love this channel
Thought provoking video.
Excellent depiction of the truth.
*لا إله إلا ﷲ*
*لا إله إلا ﷲ*
*لا إله إلا ﷲ*
*لا إله إلا ﷲ*
*لا إله إلا ﷲ*
*لا إله إلا ﷲ*
*لا إله إلا ﷲ* *محمد رسول ﷲ*
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing this book part with us.
My pleasure!
How blessed we are to have *authentic* representatives in the West like Winter and Hanson. No wonder the Western media ignore them.
Jazakallahu khair brother. Interesting explanations.
Thank you Paul for another beautiful content. I learned about a solid reference book because of you. I am not sure if this is just a sufi interpretation though. My understanding of Islam, coming from a mainstream madrasa channel is that this understanding is the mainstream belief in Islam. All the concepts of friend of God, hadith qudsi, revelation to humans and animals are Quranic concepts.
Indeed, the helennistic influences on christianity, hence the notion of trinity sounds rather forceful from monotheistic point of view. It reminds me of Greek mythology about gods, demigods and humans, where there's a continuous spectrum between creatures and the Creator. Btw, I think today's turmoil is exactly because of the mixed Christian message. In one hand christianity came with a message of truthfulness and morality, on the other hand, its trinitarian beliefs raise objections in human reasoning and science. Islam on the other hand, has intelligible theology and the message. It's message has a spectrum from justice to mercy. Has no celibacy issues, and offers a well preserved Book. Islam's issue is that its jurisprudence and its thought is not actively engaged with the current world. Therefore there's a huge inertia around it. So, my understanding is that especially when the western minds become Muslim and apply Islam to today's world, it will become a beautiful practical guidance for the future. Would like to hear your views on this. Assalamu alaikum
Very thoughtful n pertinent analysis.
Agree
*لا إله إلا ﷲ*
*لا إله إلا ﷲ*
*لا إله إلا ﷲ*
*لا إله إلا ﷲ* *محمد رسول ﷲ*
5 Christian evangelist saw this video and disliked...
Sir, you should become some professor or journalist of philosophy & theology.
Evangelicals be like 😢
Good !
Sufi - coarse woollen garment (long tunic) - as worn by JC, perhaps?
This hadith :
Abu Hurairah relates that the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, said: Allah says: Whoever is at enmity with one whom I befriend should beware of having to do battle with Me. When a servant of Mine seeks to approach Me through that which I like best out of what I have made obligatory upon him, and continues to advance towards Me by dint of voluntary effort beyond that prescribed then I begin to love him. When I love him I become his ears by which he hears, and his eyes with which he sees, and his hands with which he grasps, and his feet with which he walks. When he asks Me I bestow upon him and when he seeks My protection I protect him. (Bokhari)
Anas relates that the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, said: Allah says: When a servant of Mine advances towards Me a foot, I advance towards him a yard, and when he advances towards Me a yard, I advance toward him the length of his arms spread out. When he comes to Me walking, I go to him running. (Bokhari)
Ayesha relates: the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, stood so long during his voluntary Prayer at night that the skin of his feet would crack; so I said to him: Messenger of Allah, why do you stand so long in Prayer when Allah has suppressed in you in the past and for the future all inclinations towards sin? He answered: Then should I not wish to be a grateful servant of Allah? (Bokhari and Muslim)
In no way it means that the person becomes Holy only his whole being is very connected to God everything in his life is with God doing anything to please God. They are very humble usually they don't ask for much for themselves only for helping out God's creation. And yes God grant them with gifts every now and then but usually they don't talk about...they are almost like Angels on this earth...
nice i like it and thank you
Most welcome 😊
☝❤
Interesting,i was reading about the pope of the catholic church today that,he admited to a close friend of him (in private)that he believes that jesus is not god.
Source?
@@adriandavid4279 i did not read it in english.have a look in youtube( pope does not believe jesus 'the man' was divine).
@@adriandavid4279 ruclips.net/video/MlBkBDwFIZA/видео.html
Matter of time before pope declares hes a Muslim
I was raised on the idea that innovation is forbidden (bid'a) and that pretty much covers a huge portion of Sufism. I can definitely see why.
@@suflateef2049 it 100% is
@@suflateef2049 based on the fact it was a later innovation that the Prophet (pbuh) and his companions did not practice. So please do not keep going after the subject that you know not about, as per the 4th Caliph Hazrat Ali.
What this Nabil guy is saying is an example of the height of ignorance amongst Muslims 🤦 really sad. Conflict amongst Muslims (especially about things that are less important or insignificant) is a powerful tool of satan and non-believers. @SUFLATEEF ignore such people. They're most likely not looking for knowledge, just fighting and to boost their ego.
@@suflateef2049 show me evidence they did
@@suflateef2049 cool story bro
Remember what happened to Roman when they chose multiple deities to worship besides him. (If you don’t know it was sacked and lost all its power)
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me ~ John 14:6
Dear Christian brothers "Life can come without Father too, Did Hen come first or Egg, same for all Animals, who is Father of first animals each.
"Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created Him from dust; then He said to him, "Be," and he was." Quran 3:59
" God Emptied" is "God Not"!
The major corruption that Paul had done is that he deviated the pure monotheistic teachings ( to worship one and only God) of Jesus (pbuh) towards worshipping of an another being,equal to God. He Proclaimed that Jesus is someone equal to God,and introduced the theory of "emptied God":
" Christ Jesus who, though existing in the form of God, did not consider his equality with God something to cling to, but emptied himself as he took on the form of a slave and become like human being " ( The letter of Paul to the Philippians 2:6)
All the creations of God are submitted to and are dependent on Him...if according to Paul's theory God emptied Himself and took the form of a slave, then who was the master and controller of the Universe during that period of time, or does it suggest that there were two gods simultaneously, one emptied and another full of powers, but this is an open blasphemy and it leads to polytheism (to worship others equal to God)
God Almighty has ever been and will ever remain the most powerful the only God. It is absolutely illogical to think of Him being emptied or devoid of Himself for any moment, because God " emptied" is God not any more
Very informative. Tim Winters is very interesting to listen to.
Can you unravel this term "theopathic locution". It rather sounds like a disease! Like gastropathy or osteopathy.
a disease! LOL
@@BloggingTheology
Maybe my spelling is erroneous?
@@sherifel-hadi3439 not at all 😀
@@sherifel-hadi3439 the term just appeared in the text. I have not come across it before.
Ana Al Haq uttered by Abi Yazid Bistami is not similar to the concept of incarnation God the Father within Jesus Christ
In this verse, I think it seems pretty clear, that Paul is preaching that Jesus has the same nature as God-essentially a Trinitarian conception of Jesus and God. What is your view?
''For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily'' Colossians 2:9
Does not the Holy Spirit dwell in born again Christians?
@@BloggingTheology The commentaries on this verse are essentially saying that the Trinitarian interpretation is the most obvious. Here is an example:
''These words also emphasize the human aspect of Jesus. Some taught that Jesus was divine, but not fully human. Paul clearly noted Jesus was physically human while also fully divine (John 1:1). Though modern skeptics often argue belief in the deity of Jesus was a later development, Paul clearly believed and wrote about the deity of Jesus in this letter, which was written around AD 60-62. This was a teaching Paul said he received from the apostles after his conversion, which occurred within three years of the resurrection (Galatians 1:18). The doctrine of Jesus' deity is not a later invention, but the teaching of the eyewitnesses of Jesus.''
paul was driven by lust for pig meat. Wake up
@@franciscollins18 how can we get correct answer from a cooked up text. There are many glaring contradictions in the Bible which does not require rocket science to prove but still they don't want to accept who can help? Only the day of Judgement will decide, so let us wait.
1. It is open to interpretation and doesn't say that explicitly
2. It is just a letter from Paul and his opinion. There is no evidence that Paul was inspired by God but a good argument can be made that he was the opposite.
Where did Winter’s get the idea ‘Jews shaped the monotheistic view in Arabia’? They had no effect on the polytheists who lived around them.Sounds like mere speculation.
Similarly where does the notion of saint or wali come in? The Prophet (saww) is conveying God’s message to his servants. Winter seems to echo a common error in the Sufi enterprise . No Muslim would even consider that this was not God speaking through his servant, and not the Prophet(saww). Monotheism in Arabia and across the globe was shaped by Islam.
There were Haneefs in Arabia, prophet being one of them, they were strictly monotheistic before nebihood started. Haneefs claimed to follow the religion of Abraham and rejected the other deities of their clans and did not worship the idols of those deities.
This is all very well, but quoting John's gospel in order to dispel ideas of Jesus' divinity is like trying to put out a fire with petrol. Start with John 1 and you see exactly what the Gospel writer's Christology is. Everything (yes everything) else iin the gospel is subservient to that. So cherry-picking verses out of John's gospel to show that Jesus is not divine is
1. poor scholarship
2. ignorant as the the correct use of scripture
3. disingenuous
But we are used to this. Muslims do like cherry-picking other peoples' scriptures, but cry foul when someone does it to the Qur'an. If you doubt the accuracy of John's gospel, fine. Jettison it if you want. But if you do insist on using what it teaches, do yourself a favour and treat it as a whole. Treating it otherwise only marks you out as a fool.
Okay but if anything you’re just proving that there are contradictions in the Bible?
@@Gggggggglllk Christian theology is developed by taking scripture and deriving our understanding of God from scripture. Effectively it means going where scripture takes you, regardless of where you end up. What Paul (and Prof Tim Winter) do is take a philosophical stance and then cherry-pick those verses they like from scripture which support their philosophy, while rejecting or calling into question those which disagree with their views.
The former method is honest, and empirically-minded.
The latter method is effectively defining who God is, and then scrabbling around wildly trying to support your suppositions.
Atheists often come up with the trope that God is made in man's image. Paul's way of doing things merely proves them right.
@@mikehutton3937 but brother how can you refer back to your scripture when your own scholars agree that Bible has been changed? Which scripture do we refer back to? There are hundreds of different bibles. Not different translations, different bibles. So what scripture are we referring to exactly. In my whole life I’ve never met 2 different Christians that believe in the same thing. Why is this?
@@mikehutton3937 & don’t be offended by what I say brother, I am not biased at all I just want answers.
@@Gggggggglllk There are errant translations, to be sure. But we're about as confident as you get that the Greek manuscripts we have allow us to translate the Bible into whichever language you like and retain the same teachings as those of the early church. If you're honest enough to translate it accurately and without bias, that is.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "different Bibles". The main difference you'll find is that the Catholic ("Jerusalem") bibles contain additional apocryphal books such as 1&2 Maccabees, Ecclesiasticus, and Judith. Omission of these books by Protestants is done on historical doctrinal grounds. We know what went on there. The inclusion of these books merely provides support for secondary doctrines which are held by Catholics but not other parts of the global Church. But they do not change the central themes or teaching of the church.
No two people believe exactly the same things, and so you'll find this with Christians as well. But if you ask a Christian who Jesus is, what He taught, and what we must to to gain salvation, you won't end up with a lot of variation. When it comes to the core tenets of faith, Catholic. Orthodox, and Protestant all believe in the Trinitarian view of God, the divinity of Jesus as the Word and Son of God, in His death and resurrection, and that by believing in His name we can be saved.
The treatment of the Bible is slightly different between different groups. Most Christians believe that the Bible is divinely inspired but written by men as the record of God's dealings with mankind through the nation of Israel through to the ministry of Jesus of Nazareth and the formation of the Church. What we don't believe (or at least the vast majority don't) is that the Bible is the directly dictated words of God. In that sense it is not seen as inerrant/divine in the same way as the Qur'an is believed to be by Muslims.
10:16 Arabian knew about monotheism not because of Jewish presence, cant believe the author who is a Muslim or sufi muslim, say that!! rather Ibrahim came to Arabia and Ismael!! and there were few montheist "haneefieen" in Arabia and they have name for them.. few generation before they were also.. only one Amar ibn luhahi brought first idols they corrupted the religions or a bit before.. what a statament!! i
Murad here is peddling the generic 19th century boilerplate. And he just assumes a pristine and uniform conception of Semitic monotheism, which was only then "diluted" in the Near East by pagan Hellenists. For one thing, the Near East hardly needed Greeks to be familiarized with the idea of polytheism, as Biblical history makes clear.
He also has this baseless idea that the conception of Jesus as divine is some historically late distortion read into the Jewish writings of the New Testament by foreign minds under the influence of Hellenic thought. Again this is false. Historically we know that there were Jews even in pre-Christian times that had a multi-personal understanding of God, and a pre-Christian belief in a divine-incarnate Messiah, which is abundantly clear in the earliest, Jewish Gospel of Mark. Bart Ehrman, who Muslims love to cite, himself admits that the author of Mark believed Jesus was divine. Murad alludes to the Jesus poem of Philippians 2, which is one of the oldest extant pieces of Christian writing, though he seemingly fails to realize that it in all likelihood was written by a Jew who also clearly affirmed the divinity of Christ.
I'm also amused by his understanding of the Gospel of John as affirming the Muslim view of Jesus, and that it was only misread by Christians under the influence of Euro-pagan thought. This seems like a popular notion among Muslims, despite the fact that the Gospel of John is most explicit in affirming Christ's divinity, and therefore contradicting the Islamic view of Jesus. In John 1 it's made quite clear that Jesus is divine incarnate. It would be amusing to see an attempt made to reconcile John 8:58, 14:6 and 17:5 with the Islamic idea of Jesus.
Jesus denies he is God in Mark 10.
Read Sir Anthony Buzzards book. Unitarians will completely deny the trinity. The trinity is nowhere to be found in the Jewish scriptures. No rabbi will read the old testament and find God to be a man. Regarding Bart Erhman. He doesn't think that the gospels are reliable for one and demonstrates that the evolution of jesus divinity is made throughout the gospels. Certain statements made in John which are much more explicit to make a claim of divinity, are not to be found in the earlier gospels, which is very questionable in itself.
Regardless of this. Please, yourself demonstrate where jesus explicitly claims to be God.
@@BloggingTheology That's only one interpretation. It's not an explicit denial, for one thing. For another, it's entirely in-keeping with Jesus in the Gospel of Mark to be cryptic in what he says, especially to the uninitiated. Mark 4:10-12:
"And when he was alone, those around him with the twelve asked him about the parables. And he said to them, 'To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, so that
''they may indeed see but not perceive,
and may indeed hear but not understand,
lest they should turn and be forgiven.'"
In Mark 14:62, Jesus refers to himself as "coming in the clouds of heaven," which is a Biblical usage reserved for God. This is why the high priest he's talking to at the time loses it and calls for him to be executed for blasphemy.
Even your boy Bart Ehrman admits that the Synoptics depict Jesus as divine.
@@ConsideringPhlebas Bart Ehrman is very clear that Jesus' disciples did not think Jesus was God.
@@yeahbuddy4712
Firstly, Ehrman states that the Synoptics and John affirm that Jesus is divine, so he'd disagree with your Unitarians. Trinitarian theology is ample in the New Testament, and there were certainly Jews who believed in a multi-personality divinity in the Old Testament, the "Two Powers in Heaven" sect. I've listened to Unitarians, but I find their arguments bizarre and against the plain reading of scripture, IMO. Christian writings since the earliest times affirm Jesus's divinity, the divinity of the Holy Spirit, etc., which I'm far more inclined to go with than anomalous, forced Unitarian interpretations. I mean, you yourself have just repeatedly asserted that the Gospels/NT writings DO affirm Jesus's divinity. So we both think the Unitarians are not on a firm footing.
"Please, yourself demonstrate where jesus explicitly claims to be God."
It's all so tiresome when Muslims pretend that Jesus never claims divinity in the New Testament.
Revelation 1:8: "I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."
Revelation 22:13: (Jesus, as evidenced by verse 22:16) "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."
Also John 8:58: "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am." (This is of course a parallel to Exodus 3:14 wherein God proclaims himself to be "I am"/Ehyeh)
Also relevant from John is 17:5: "And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed."
In any case, the "high Christology" ideas of John can also be found in the earliest NT writings: Compare John 1:3 with 1 Corinthians 8:6.
There are of course statements in the synoptic Gospels etc. that indicate Jesus is divine, but you wouldn't accept those as explicit, I imagine.
*لا إله إلا ﷲ*
*لا إله إلا ﷲ*
*لا إله إلا ﷲ*
*لا إله إلا ﷲ*
*لا إله إلا ﷲ*
*لا إله إلا ﷲ*
*لا إله إلا ﷲ* *محمد رسول ﷲ*
Dear Christian brothers "Life can come without Father too, Did Hen come first or Egg, same for all Animals, who is Father of first animals each.
"Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created Him from dust; then He said to him, "Be," and he was." Quran 3:59