Someone did this ....it was still like 500 bucks and I don't think anyone got the parts. I say we just make a build LIST and people just order the items on the list and assemble....that'll shake things up lol -Walsh
Knack Tactical is doing something similar. They're working on their v3 and it'll be a parts kit you can buy them you 3d print the housing and build it from there.
Not gonna happen. Build kits are illegal because the electronics would be considered the "laser system". There is literally no way to go around it, I looked into everything.
IR/NOD companies are like suppressor companies. The hold a market and don't want their outrageous pricing models and deliver a product that in any other industry would fail.
I think it depends on the company. I know at BE Meyers (local to me) they have a shit ton of people (engineers, etc) being paid a shit ton of money to develop their new (not yet released) laser device. Others I agree. Best example is the KGM suppressor I was considering when released was around $1000, later the same can on sale for more than 50% off on Botach. I have a real NGAL and the Somogear clone. Real one is definitely way better quality but worth 9x the price? Not sure about that haha
I really appreciate that you point out the reality of night engagement. When I teach NV and low light I have to get people to let go of shooting for moa and accept minute of man.
And most people don't realize.... white light is probably going to be used at one point. Simple things like "the guy in the red shirt is ours.. don't shoot him" completely changes the game
Absolutely As stated in many LAW videos, the bloom at 100 yards is a dinner plate or better, if you've got an accurately zeroed optic at 100 yards, why are you using the laser, point and shoot, using passive!!! The IR laser and vis laser is literally for active rapid engagements, CQB style stuff. In near peer environments your running passive anyway, I don't understand at all why a guy is focused on what it's doing at 100 yards at all.
I just ordered a Jerry-31 W.P. , External Battery Pack for the Jerry-31, Wilcox G24 lite, & Team Wendy Exfil Bump all Brand New from a trusted retailer for right about almost an even 5k🙌💪☝️🤙 My very 1'st N.V. unit & I can NOT even wait till the setup arrives on Saturday!!!
I just built some PVS-5/31's out of some FMA dummy PVS-31's and a AN/PVS-5C i got. Overall the build cost me around 1,600 bucks and a week of wiring and soldering and dremeling. I even retained the IR illuminator and the "high light gain shutoff" sensor. I've worked under nods for around 15 years now... and I consider these VERY usable. Certainly for the money a MASSIVE capability enhancement over sitting without nods and saving up longer. But if you are going to save up used car money for night vision... i would consider spending said small fortune on one of infiray's units with thermal fusion. Their monocular is similarly priced to the j-31's, and their bino setup (which im told has stellar thermal) will run you what bare bones pvs-31's will. Thermal fusion gives a massive advantage in target detection and sometimes even navigation over just getting super high spec tubes and glass. Im on the fence about getting a Jerry-CE COTI for my 5/31's or just saving up and one day getting the Jerry FB's with thermal fusion. But getting a slightly crisper image with slightly better light amplification and still missing the target indicators of the guy hiding in a shadow or in a bush.... doesn't seem to be worth the thousands of dollars extra you spend when compared to less optimal tubes paired with a thermal for the same price. Just my 2 cents.
Nice video, I appreciate the reference to my channel. In terms of price, I’ve recently learned a TON on lasers and am a mechanical engineer by trade. There are a ton of US regulations that require substantial administrative, engineering, and other liability associated costs. So the clones can be cheaper because they’re not abiding to those regulations or trying to certify the accuracy of the power ranges/wave lengths of their emitters. They also get a huge head start because they’re copying designs rather than engineering them in house. I do hope it puts pressure to keep costs reasonable (no way the L3 NGAL is worth the price tag) but there is a reason for at least some of that cost. You can get diodes that put out whole watts of energy for cheap, but doesn’t mean they will be reliable or have accurate/consistent outputs from what their spec sheet claims.
yea they get to skip the regulation and r&d portion so there is a ton of the cost but it still doesn't make sense. I'd like some pressure added. I'm a computer engineer by trade originally and was heavy into circuits and logic. The tech in a high end graphics card is 10x this and 1/3 the price. It just doesn't line up! thanks for stopping in and giving me some wisdom -Walsh
@@ThinLineDefenseCoI think overall it’s a decent time to be getting into the NV game. Lots of options out there and clones are only getting better and that will force US companies to continue innovating or trying to stick to as low of a price point as feasible. I don’t think the govt contracted units will be overly persuaded by the civ market, but one can hope..
Part of the regulation side scares me a bit with the clones. For example in your video having the low IR lasering advertising a nice 0.7mw (perfect for airsoft and still being pretty safe for eyes) but actually being nearly 5mw is the issue (granted its close to what the real one is on low). For the high setting its whatever as that has its own use but being advertised for airsoft and having the low setting be stout is something else imo.
Thank you for doing this video! I and MANY others are eagerly awaiting the release of the Holosun IRIS! We've been told that Holosun listened to the feedback on the switches and controls and are re-working them. So that unit might just be THE best value out there!
These companies are getting ready to learn what happens when you give into the greed that is non-permisive pricing. Its sad it took china to show them, but im glad someone did.
We had PEQ2A side mounted. No, its not exactly zeroed, but good enough for center mass shots, and your IR is also to designate targets, command and control. Its not a "scope" and doesn't need to be.
Great job! Thoughtful and practical. I am waiting for the Iris too. My Holosun rep has already started pushing the date back. Probably come out for next years SHOT show
I have a DBAL A3 and a Somogear NGAL. I got the DBAL first and when my NGAL finally came I compared the 2. I was surprised at how equal the quality is between the 2. Its the intangibles of how it feels in your hand, the button presses and switch movements that doesn't come through on video.
My buddy was active mil but recently got out and now is LEO on our local Sheriff SWAT team. He's used MAWL's, LA5's, PEQ15 and even NGAL's. He bought a Somogear NGAL and he says the same thing you said, the build quality is on part with those he's used in the past and the FP Peq15 that he has on his duty rifle. Time will tell about longevity but he has about 2k rounds, taking classes and being on the flat range and no problems yet. Really interesting.
ive been looking into making my own NVGs and im pretty deep in it but sourcing the sensors for them is a pain. maybe when i finish this ill tackle a PEQ build n post it somewhere
I agree, they all have an offset. I have a centerline mount for my real milsurp FP PEQ-15 and it still has an offset between IR and vis as well as beam divergence even though the emitters are centered above my barrel. I payed 2200 beans for that device so the fact that a 450 bean LAM is comparable is fairly impressive.
I have liked mine however I did have the pressure pad port break and cause the laser to stay constant on. This was caused by a "spring" like wire inside the port being broken. I ripped it out and it works fine however cant use pressure pads. So far this is the only complaint I have had. Pretty impressed with the unit.
Big brand IR is like Petland, that extra 1K is for replacements. Also, my friend, a Electric Engineer/FFL, built his own quad nvg for like 15K. 10K for 4 decent pvs14, and 4K for housing, the extra 1k goes to that special shaped glass.
Great video. I loved the insight regarding realistic engagement ranges under night vision. Soo many people thing active IR aiming is the end all to NV shooting. If the target is outside 100 yards you might want to switch to passive, and or a thermal scope.
in somogear's defense they do state everywhere that it is for airsoft use only. This i originally thought was just to avoid regulation and tax, but maybe this is genuine and would explain the lack of picatinny lug and interfacing issues with certain uppers.
Chinese companies cannot sell military equipment for export. This is how they get around this by putting for airsoft only when it works fine on real AR's
We need the PSA of night vision. Don't care about profit margins, just do the most affordable american made products. Give us tubes, lasers and thermals as affordavle as they possibly can be.
There are a ton of somogear reviews. Can you do a review of the invisible sight Ngal mk4. I know it’s a little more than the somogear. Maybe double. But is it worth it. I believe they added rail lugs. As well made it waterproof in addition it can hold zero up too 7.62. So it claims.
Nice review, at first i was like where's my anodized finish but very quickly i came to love the matte painted finish. Mine is missing the detent click on the laser elevation but haven't noticed any shift yet. I have the Somoboat switch but it doesn't like outputting full power on my Z-Bolt Blazer LEP torch so will probably upgrade to the real steel (Unity Axon Sync NGAL with Visible Override).
I've seen IR lasers up to 3 or 4k. I have to ask, why would anyone spend that much on a laser when you can get a 640x480 thermal scope for the same price? Seems like a no-brainer for night fighting.
I agree but NV and thermal engagements are way different. No one's clearing rooms with thermals, and before you say I'm a keyboard warrior or whatever I've been in 3/75 for 3 years so I have some credit to what I say. Thermal is good for longer distance engagements 100yds +. IR devices are mainly used by guys doing HVT raids or marking objects or overhead.
@@MrOkcboi77 potting is where they pretty much put glue around the electronics to help against recoil. A lot of the knockoff lights, optics, and lasers don't. Hence one of the reasons they're cheaper but also why they don't hold zero or break easily.
@@ThinLineDefenseCo that's awesome. I snagged a LS321R as my first IR device simply because I was getting so much mixed information/testimonials about the 1,200+ dollar options. I just couldn't see spending that much for a meh result. Plus with the LS321R they have a decent warranty and people that had them atleast all seemed happy with them. I enjoyed the video.
The battery cap lanyard is supposed to seize up. if you hold it in place you can take it off rather easy. It’s supposed to seize up to keep the battery cap from backing out and dropping the battery.
@@ThinLineDefenseCo dang, I’m working on a project to 3-D print a module myself. If you all come across those again, I wouldn’t mind the names. Also, I love your guys content.
The comment about the rail clamp and missing lugs highlights the reason why it’s cheaper but just scratched the surface. The Chinese NGAL invested how much R and D? How many engineers did it take to design it (copy)? How much in house unit testing did it go through? How much user field testing and feedback cycles? We are the testers. ;).
I'm just upset that an American company isn't doing what Holosun is doing with the Iris. In fact it feels like American companies do the opposite with shit like the MAWL being waaaaay more expensive than the rifles they sit on. Like dude, I just need a LAM that won't require a trust fund to purchase while also being duty capable and have the same form factor as an NGAL. We know if holosun can do it, an American company can do it too, they just don't want to! Invisiblesight would be the best answer, but his stuff is never in stock, I'd throw money his way if he'd ramp production up.
Another good video Walsh. I especially enjoy your attitude towards the “Ronnie’s”, living in some video game world. I just ordered the slightly more expensive Invisible Sight NGAL that by all account is a touch higher in quality. Even includes those lugs missing on the Somo Gear version. But it’s at least another six weeks out, so waiting as usual.
Also people need to keep in mind.. if realistic engagement distance is Sub 100 yards.. is UHP even worth it? The wash you get on FP at 100 yards is so nuts, my units on low power anyways. So not even just the point you bring up but just in general as a civilian i think FP units are sick and cool to have if you can afford them, but are they needed if youre just gonna run said unit on LP? great video btw man
yea a few viewers and I were talking that HP is nice to punch through high light or something but you'd generally keep it on low power and only use that high setting for very specific situations. We totally agree with you lol -Walsh
If you read Somogear's website it specifically says the different versions of the peq15 are all identical power and guts. Only the exterior markings are different.
@@Kycirion what’s your point? My point in this comment was is UHP worth spending 2k when you are rarely if at all going to use it when you can buy a civilian laser for half the price
Fuck it. Someone needs to break the IR gatekeeping and If I have to be the one to make a 100% American built IR laser that does not cost north of 1000 bucks then so be it. I'm may not be the first to try but I sure as hell am not last.
Anodizing protects the aluminum from corrosion. The aluminum hood hinges on my jeep corroded under the paint so bad that the paint buckled and chipped off. I would gladly pay another hundred bucks for anodizing. But then who knows if the guts in these things will outlast the housing.....
How does the Somogear perform after mounting it on a rifle and shooting hundreds of rounds? Zero shift? Breakage? I'm willing to bet one or the other if not both.
Nah was totally good. Ran this on two optic reviews and the main rifle review. Was still zero'd and set to torque. Only removed to show you all content. I wish it had locking lugs but it's just a clamp buddy. -Walsh
On point, with near peer adversary or just a guy with a $200.00 night vision coyote scope. Or a video camera with a nightshot option. Or just rip the ir filter off your iPhone's camera. You are so.......on point.
What you’re mentioning is a lack of proper tactics and usage regarding IR. That’s like saying ditch your visible weapon light because it can be seen if you use it.
@@ThinLineDefenseCo I definitely agree, he’s time have been, less than confidence inspiring, but his finished product, IS an NGAL. The somogear stuff just isn’t as robust as a PEQ or NGAL and still have issues. Recently his times and responses have been better
The extra $1000 went to mil industrial complex, you are just a poor civ that needs to pay contract price. The co alignment is really not an issue between lasers. It is more noticable the actual zero shift for distance like 100 yards and further it's not really usable due to right offset from optic. That becomes a silly argument anyway due to identification like you said.
For legal reasons they have to say that....so they can masquerade it as a toy. And I don't think any of them are made in America. Maybe the Designate IR-V but I don't think so
Other than just wanting to say it’s full power….why do you want that? I night hunt on 3k acres and can easily see my holosun LS117 laser @ 1k yard, much farther than I can shoot at night under nods with a 5.56 gun
Doing that as a service for others is illegal. The electronics are considered the "laser system" which would be FDA controlled. The person making, so in this case manufacturing them, would get fucked over really hard.
USS DBAL 😂 The takeaway from this video is pretty obvious. I like keeping more of my money. And the “official” switch is how much? It’s a switch……….jeez.
you turds made me pull it off for this review in the middle of testing. I'm just running it on a 556 though and there is little to no recoil. I looked at a bunch of other testing on ar10s and those guys had no issues. The zero held true for the full rifle and two optics tests though. But I said all that in the video.... -Walsh
Thank you for highlighting the garbage that is the IR and NV industry. I’ve hated every single unit I’ve seen. Zero competition in that field. The iris might fall on its face but if it does well then Steiner is in deep doodoo
The real problem is.... and I know this as a guy who works government contracts.. they "get" 😂$$$ contracts, their contracts overpriced the heck out of it because who cares 700billion in funding but the stipulation is they can't sell it for cheaper to the public, so customers assume it's made of unobtainium and we assume everything else is for airsoft.. I have a lpvo I paid 200 for that people always ask. What did it run u $900?
ugh...yea I know this one. I was a First Sergeant for quite some time. It's very annoying that our prices are just set in order to hook government contracts. It's very upsetting but look at companies like Trijicon that didn't make a new product for 10 years. You just ride the contract and do nothing....so all the companies try to do the same.
@@ThinLineDefenseCo exactly my point, someone entered the market and undercut the same design with a low price and high quality. I pray somogear can do that too given some time
trust me I GET complaining about the price of these units....but why don't we also complain about other parts....I think SCOPE MOUNTS are the worst offenders Scope mounts have little to no R&D, they are nothing but $25 pieces of aluminum that are marked up over 1500% sold for $300 to $500 then they have the balls to charge insulting prices for 5 degree offset and such. I am going to buy clones until the markets gets a grip.
The pricing of "brand name" is due to the US military, as is the shitty customer service, the military does not give a hoot what the costs are, they just write checks, if it doesn't work they pitch it and nabb another. I've had ZERO issues with Steiner, with scopes and RDS as far as customer service. If it works well enough for training and familiarization, if you gotta have the brand name get good with it at $500 and save the money to just have it.
I don't think Steiner has been known for good customer service but a few folks have mentioned that optic. I have a Dbal with a crane plug stuck in it for the last 2 years....so I'm not super excited to roll the dice with Steiner.
@ThinLineDefenseCo i cannot attest to a LAW, but I had a scope on a rifle i bought in 1997, fall from my own stupidity while getting another rifle out of the safe and the optic hit the concrete and the scope was toast. I also own a MPS on my pistol, it had stopped working. Steiner has a heritage warranty, and I can attest to their customer service, they fixed the MPS and due to its age they couldn't give me a like for like so what they sent was a quantum leap from what I had. I've had no issues with them.
The prices on these are utterly moronic! There is no reason besides GREED for them to cost this much, its disgusting I could make my own for like $150 to $250 and that includes the shell.
Then do it. If its so easy to make them so cheap then make them for $250 and sell than for $500, heck even for $1000. Youll never be able to keep up with demand and youll never be hurting for money ever again.
Guys you have to remember one important fact, you are not involved in an actual active combat war zone with bullets zinging past your ear, most of you are LARPing (news flash - NOT REAL Combat). Personally, I would not spend all that money, for $4800, could buy 10 Somogear NGALs and have plenty of replacements. For 95% functionally of the overpriced one, I’ll take it.
Υou have a new fan and channel follower . Since we talk the same language let me comment on this . 1st there are much better clones than the somegear . They will blow you away by how much closer or even better they are than the real steel item . IS-EG MKII NGAL is on of them with recoil lugs , full power , metal construction and stupid low price ...or is this the proper price ? Because 4000 us for a civil L3 Harris peq15 is stupid . Or is it not ? When it comes down to pricing dot forget cheep , ok let me correct ultra cheep Chinese labous vs USA labour . Even if we used the same body , same internals etc the product that came from the us would always be up to 3X price wise vs China ... Now if you ask me which you didnt but if you did I run a holosun LS117IR stand alone unit ( only IR lazer ) and a surefire m622 dual day and IR light bridged on the same switch ....try and beat that combo 😂😂😂😂
What it's called is a paradigm shift. When a workable solution is 1/5th the cost of any other solution, then the entire industry suffers a paradigm shift.
My somogear ngal didn’t even last a whole 30 round magazine. Now dealing with the company has been a nightmare… no more weird lasers for me. Save your money boys and girls and buy a decent laser. At least my holosun ls 321g has lasted a while
What issue are you having? Mine started shutting off while firing after about 100rnds. Turns out the battery cap just needed to be tightened down further. I'm between 800-1,000rnds so far and no issues. I'm scared to test the water resistance though
@@ThinLineDefenseCo You've got like 15 close ups of you fiddling with the ngal with like half inch long fingernails... shit's like not brushing your teeth.
I appreciated this video and the insight but, for what it’s worth, please don’t constantly preemptively defend yourself from Redditors or commenters. They’re going to comment anyway, and in my opinion all you do is sound a bit insecure and kind of annoying for normal viewers.
Oh I don't care, I just like making it more fun than just data and tests. Just lean into the jokes. At least I'm not trying to tell you that SDI isn't a scam lol -Walsh
Civilians... SMH. Great "Public Servant" attitude. Why would you not want ur fellow Americans to have the best gear possible? And I'm not talking about Somogear. I'm talking same weaponry as the military. Do you hate Freedom or love tyranny? Our Founding Fathers knew what they were talking about and We The People isnt specific to Law Enforcement and Military. Freedom is dangerous. Deal with it.
We need a US company to make a “IR Laser Build Kit” they will rake in the money.
Someone did this ....it was still like 500 bucks and I don't think anyone got the parts.
I say we just make a build LIST and people just order the items on the list and assemble....that'll shake things up lol
-Walsh
@@ThinLineDefenseCo Since it seems we're brainstorming here, what components are guaranteed a spot on the list?
Knack Tactical is doing something similar. They're working on their v3 and it'll be a parts kit you can buy them you 3d print the housing and build it from there.
That’s what phantom hill was supposed to be but apparently the guy closed the shop mid production of a batch.
Not gonna happen. Build kits are illegal because the electronics would be considered the "laser system". There is literally no way to go around it, I looked into everything.
IR/NOD companies are like suppressor companies. The hold a market and don't want their outrageous pricing models and deliver a product that in any other industry would fail.
There are a lot of suppressor companies AND you can make your own.
I think it depends on the company. I know at BE Meyers (local to me) they have a shit ton of people (engineers, etc) being paid a shit ton of money to develop their new (not yet released) laser device. Others I agree. Best example is the KGM suppressor I was considering when released was around $1000, later the same can on sale for more than 50% off on Botach. I have a real NGAL and the Somogear clone. Real one is definitely way better quality but worth 9x the price? Not sure about that haha
Discord has a great NOD group ongoing builds offs.
Captive markets are called "freedom" in some circles.
Your logic on IR vs PC's had me rolling like if i gotta choose between IR or mid to higher tier PC builds we gotta a problem 😂😂😂
Right?!!
I really appreciate that you point out the reality of night engagement. When I teach NV and low light I have to get people to let go of shooting for moa and accept minute of man.
And most people don't realize.... white light is probably going to be used at one point. Simple things like "the guy in the red shirt is ours.. don't shoot him" completely changes the game
Absolutely
As stated in many LAW videos, the bloom at 100 yards is a dinner plate or better, if you've got an accurately zeroed optic at 100 yards, why are you using the laser, point and shoot, using passive!!!
The IR laser and vis laser is literally for active rapid engagements, CQB style stuff.
In near peer environments your running passive anyway, I don't understand at all why a guy is focused on what it's doing at 100 yards at all.
Thank you we need more budgetish NV guys
Jerry 31s are about as budget as you could get and still have "decent" nightvision
@@MrBigJake75 true but the tubes are so budget they hate lasers apparently
I just ordered a Jerry-31 W.P. , External Battery Pack for the Jerry-31, Wilcox G24 lite, & Team Wendy Exfil Bump all Brand New from a trusted retailer for right about almost an even 5k🙌💪☝️🤙
My very 1'st N.V. unit & I can NOT even wait till the setup arrives on Saturday!!!
@@larrymarsico4059 should post a video to stop the j-31 hate
I just built some PVS-5/31's out of some FMA dummy PVS-31's and a AN/PVS-5C i got. Overall the build cost me around 1,600 bucks and a week of wiring and soldering and dremeling. I even retained the IR illuminator and the "high light gain shutoff" sensor. I've worked under nods for around 15 years now... and I consider these VERY usable. Certainly for the money a MASSIVE capability enhancement over sitting without nods and saving up longer. But if you are going to save up used car money for night vision... i would consider spending said small fortune on one of infiray's units with thermal fusion. Their monocular is similarly priced to the j-31's, and their bino setup (which im told has stellar thermal) will run you what bare bones pvs-31's will. Thermal fusion gives a massive advantage in target detection and sometimes even navigation over just getting super high spec tubes and glass. Im on the fence about getting a Jerry-CE COTI for my 5/31's or just saving up and one day getting the Jerry FB's with thermal fusion. But getting a slightly crisper image with slightly better light amplification and still missing the target indicators of the guy hiding in a shadow or in a bush.... doesn't seem to be worth the thousands of dollars extra you spend when compared to less optimal tubes paired with a thermal for the same price. Just my 2 cents.
Thanks for making everything clear about Somogear NGAL!!! Good luck!!!
Nice video, I appreciate the reference to my channel.
In terms of price, I’ve recently learned a TON on lasers and am a mechanical engineer by trade. There are a ton of US regulations that require substantial administrative, engineering, and other liability associated costs. So the clones can be cheaper because they’re not abiding to those regulations or trying to certify the accuracy of the power ranges/wave lengths of their emitters. They also get a huge head start because they’re copying designs rather than engineering them in house.
I do hope it puts pressure to keep costs reasonable (no way the L3 NGAL is worth the price tag) but there is a reason for at least some of that cost.
You can get diodes that put out whole watts of energy for cheap, but doesn’t mean they will be reliable or have accurate/consistent outputs from what their spec sheet claims.
yea they get to skip the regulation and r&d portion so there is a ton of the cost but it still doesn't make sense.
I'd like some pressure added. I'm a computer engineer by trade originally and was heavy into circuits and logic.
The tech in a high end graphics card is 10x this and 1/3 the price. It just doesn't line up!
thanks for stopping in and giving me some wisdom
-Walsh
@@ThinLineDefenseCoI think overall it’s a decent time to be getting into the NV game. Lots of options out there and clones are only getting better and that will force US companies to continue innovating or trying to stick to as low of a price point as feasible.
I don’t think the govt contracted units will be overly persuaded by the civ market, but one can hope..
Part of the regulation side scares me a bit with the clones. For example in your video having the low IR lasering advertising a nice 0.7mw (perfect for airsoft and still being pretty safe for eyes) but actually being nearly 5mw is the issue (granted its close to what the real one is on low). For the high setting its whatever as that has its own use but being advertised for airsoft and having the low setting be stout is something else imo.
A actually I voted for peanut butter sandwich reviews but this is what we got
Thank you for doing this video! I and MANY others are eagerly awaiting the release of the Holosun IRIS! We've been told that Holosun listened to the feedback on the switches and controls and are re-working them. So that unit might just be THE best value out there!
These companies are getting ready to learn what happens when you give into the greed that is non-permisive pricing. Its sad it took china to show them, but im glad someone did.
We had PEQ2A side mounted. No, its not exactly zeroed, but good enough for center mass shots, and your IR is also to designate targets, command and control. Its not a "scope" and doesn't need to be.
Great job! Thoughtful and practical. I am waiting for the Iris too. My Holosun rep has already started pushing the date back. Probably come out for next years SHOT show
Yeaaaaa I heard we're a few months out at least. I'll grab one as soon as they hit the shelves though.
-Walsh
That is disappointing to hear, I was hoping the Iris would be available q2..
Awesome review and comparison. I've enjoyed using my somo gear peq15. Looking forward for my ngal to arrive.
I have a DBAL A3 and a Somogear NGAL. I got the DBAL first and when my NGAL finally came I compared the 2. I was surprised at how equal the quality is between the 2. Its the intangibles of how it feels in your hand, the button presses and switch movements that doesn't come through on video.
My buddy was active mil but recently got out and now is LEO on our local Sheriff SWAT team. He's used MAWL's, LA5's, PEQ15 and even NGAL's. He bought a Somogear NGAL and he says the same thing you said, the build quality is on part with those he's used in the past and the FP Peq15 that he has on his duty rifle. Time will tell about longevity but he has about 2k rounds, taking classes and being on the flat range and no problems yet. Really interesting.
ive been looking into making my own NVGs and im pretty deep in it but sourcing the sensors for them is a pain. maybe when i finish this ill tackle a PEQ build n post it somewhere
This looks great and im just hoping more companies follow and start making things more affordable.
I agree, they all have an offset. I have a centerline mount for my real milsurp FP PEQ-15 and it still has an offset between IR and vis as well as beam divergence even though the emitters are centered above my barrel. I payed 2200 beans for that device so the fact that a 450 bean LAM is comparable is fairly impressive.
I have liked mine however I did have the pressure pad port break and cause the laser to stay constant on. This was caused by a "spring" like wire inside the port being broken. I ripped it out and it works fine however cant use pressure pads. So far this is the only complaint I have had. Pretty impressed with the unit.
I'm still wondering why gen2 green NVGs are still over $1500 for complete units.
Great review. Thank you! God bless! Be safe! 🤙🪖👮🙏🇺🇲
You too! take care
-Walsh
Big brand IR is like Petland, that extra 1K is for replacements. Also, my friend, a Electric Engineer/FFL, built his own quad nvg for like 15K. 10K for 4 decent pvs14, and 4K for housing, the extra 1k goes to that special shaped glass.
Whatttt😂 you mean 10k on IIT
Great video. I loved the insight regarding realistic engagement ranges under night vision. Soo many people thing active IR aiming is the end all to NV shooting. If the target is outside 100 yards you might want to switch to passive, and or a thermal scope.
Agreed, anything beyond 100 for passive PID is absurd. I hope Somogear and Holosun destroy the competition
in somogear's defense they do state everywhere that it is for airsoft use only. This i originally thought was just to avoid regulation and tax, but maybe this is genuine and would explain the lack of picatinny lug and interfacing issues with certain uppers.
I wonder if I can glue on a locking lug lol
Chinese companies cannot sell military equipment for export. This is how they get around this by putting for airsoft only when it works fine on real AR's
8:14 hell yeah that‘s sooo true. Anybody figured out how to remove that crane plug from dbal?
We need the PSA of night vision. Don't care about profit margins, just do the most affordable american made products.
Give us tubes, lasers and thermals as affordavle as they possibly can be.
And not from China. @palmettostatearmory where you at?!
Solid as always Walsh!
There are a ton of somogear reviews. Can you do a review of the invisible sight Ngal mk4. I know it’s a little more than the somogear. Maybe double. But is it worth it. I believe they added rail lugs. As well made it waterproof in addition it can hold zero up too 7.62. So it claims.
It's like a 8 month wait.... so next year, sure lol
Allegedly, holding zero on SCAR-L 😅
ruclips.net/video/gEs2-QgcZkA/видео.htmlfeature=shared
Nice review, at first i was like where's my anodized finish but very quickly i came to love the matte painted finish. Mine is missing the detent click on the laser elevation but haven't noticed any shift yet. I have the Somoboat switch but it doesn't like outputting full power on my Z-Bolt Blazer LEP torch so will probably upgrade to the real steel (Unity Axon Sync NGAL with Visible Override).
Hows Somogear NGAL in the field? Most of the year it snows and rains here, also negative degrees..
I've had excellent luck in several hours of 15-25 degree weather. I can't speak to water resistance yet though
@@Casper0844 thanks
Do they make a ir light metal version or is it standard om the real ones that the actual light isn't ir? Thanks.
I've seen IR lasers up to 3 or 4k. I have to ask, why would anyone spend that much on a laser when you can get a 640x480 thermal scope for the same price? Seems like a no-brainer for night fighting.
I agree but NV and thermal engagements are way different. No one's clearing rooms with thermals, and before you say I'm a keyboard warrior or whatever I've been in 3/75 for 3 years so I have some credit to what I say. Thermal is good for longer distance engagements 100yds +. IR devices are mainly used by guys doing HVT raids or marking objects or overhead.
17:09 but are the Somo Gear ones potted?
Yup, it's on the website. I think they only do the potted version now.
-Walsh
I'm completely clueless to anything NV. What does "potted" mean?
@@MrOkcboi77 potting is where they pretty much put glue around the electronics to help against recoil. A lot of the knockoff lights, optics, and lasers don't. Hence one of the reasons they're cheaper but also why they don't hold zero or break easily.
@@MrOkcboi77 definitely youtube it. It's pretty interesting
@@ThinLineDefenseCo that's awesome. I snagged a LS321R as my first IR device simply because I was getting so much mixed information/testimonials about the 1,200+ dollar options. I just couldn't see spending that much for a meh result. Plus with the LS321R they have a decent warranty and people that had them atleast all seemed happy with them. I enjoyed the video.
one thing I would try if it does not fit the rail try some heatshrink on the cross bar
Oh! That's a good idea
The battery cap lanyard is supposed to seize up. if you hold it in place you can take it off rather easy. It’s supposed to seize up to keep the battery cap from backing out and dropping the battery.
I'm not buying it. It's a hot piece of garbage
@@ThinLineDefenseCohahahaha
What are the names of the websites at 1:40?
no idea haha I just googled some basic terms and got down a rabbit hole of modules. I doubt that's the right stuff
@@ThinLineDefenseCo dang, I’m working on a project to 3-D print a module myself. If you all come across those again, I wouldn’t mind the names. Also, I love your guys content.
The comment about the rail clamp and missing lugs highlights the reason why it’s cheaper but just scratched the surface. The Chinese NGAL invested how much R and D? How many engineers did it take to design it (copy)? How much in house unit testing did it go through? How much user field testing and feedback cycles? We are the testers. ;).
Ordered an IS EG NGAL, but I'm excited for the Holosun IRIS.
I'm just upset that an American company isn't doing what Holosun is doing with the Iris. In fact it feels like American companies do the opposite with shit like the MAWL being waaaaay more expensive than the rifles they sit on. Like dude, I just need a LAM that won't require a trust fund to purchase while also being duty capable and have the same form factor as an NGAL. We know if holosun can do it, an American company can do it too, they just don't want to! Invisiblesight would be the best answer, but his stuff is never in stock, I'd throw money his way if he'd ramp production up.
Chinese manufacturering is amazingly cheap.
Somogear has started including spacers to fix the rail fit problem
OooOo fantastic!
Another good video Walsh. I especially enjoy your attitude towards the “Ronnie’s”, living in some video game world. I just ordered the slightly more expensive Invisible Sight NGAL that by all account is a touch higher in quality. Even includes those lugs missing on the Somo Gear version. But it’s at least another six weeks out, so waiting as usual.
Let me know how that goes for sure!! I heard it's awesome but a triarc level wait
-Walsh
Also people need to keep in mind.. if realistic engagement distance is Sub 100 yards.. is UHP even worth it? The wash you get on FP at 100 yards is so nuts, my units on low power anyways. So not even just the point you bring up but just in general as a civilian i think FP units are sick and cool to have if you can afford them, but are they needed if youre just gonna run said unit on LP? great video btw man
yea a few viewers and I were talking that HP is nice to punch through high light or something but you'd generally keep it on low power and only use that high setting for very specific situations. We totally agree with you lol
-Walsh
If you read Somogear's website it specifically says the different versions of the peq15 are all identical power and guts. Only the exterior markings are different.
@@Kycirion what’s your point? My point in this comment was is UHP worth spending 2k when you are rarely if at all going to use it when you can buy a civilian laser for half the price
🔥🔥🔥🔥
🔴
Is this.... good or bad?
-Walsh
How did it hold zero?
No issues. I used it for a few optic reviews and the rifle review and it sat strong. Pulled it off for this video.... as I said in the video
Fuck it. Someone needs to break the IR gatekeeping and If I have to be the one to make a 100% American built IR laser that does not cost north of 1000 bucks then so be it. I'm may not be the first to try but I sure as hell am not last.
Anodizing protects the aluminum from corrosion. The aluminum hood hinges on my jeep corroded under the paint so bad that the paint buckled and chipped off. I would gladly pay another hundred bucks for anodizing. But then who knows if the guts in these things will outlast the housing.....
How does the Somogear perform after mounting it on a rifle and shooting hundreds of rounds? Zero shift? Breakage? I'm willing to bet one or the other if not both.
Nah was totally good. Ran this on two optic reviews and the main rifle review.
Was still zero'd and set to torque. Only removed to show you all content.
I wish it had locking lugs but it's just a clamp buddy.
-Walsh
I am conflicted on the whole IR illuminator thing. It seems like a pseudo Batman signal declaring your position.
On point, with near peer adversary or just a guy with a $200.00 night vision coyote scope. Or a video camera with a nightshot option. Or just rip the ir filter off your iPhone's camera. You are so.......on point.
What you’re mentioning is a lack of proper tactics and usage regarding IR. That’s like saying ditch your visible weapon light because it can be seen if you use it.
The best option for an NGAL is the Invisible Sight NGAL
yeaaaa but his shipping times are like 9-15 years. It's not ideal when you get a suppressor approval faster than ordering one of those
-Walsh
@@ThinLineDefenseCo I definitely agree, he’s time have been, less than confidence inspiring, but his finished product, IS an NGAL.
The somogear stuff just isn’t as robust as a PEQ or NGAL and still have issues.
Recently his times and responses have been better
It comes with a free sammich pouch
Lmbo
my real NGAl is also stupid bright on FP. The retention lanyard is also just as crappy lol.
haha is it the same lanyard?? good grief
They could 100% give us quad nods laser illuminator switch in a package for like $1000 and that would still be hella marked up lol
The extra $1000 went to mil industrial complex, you are just a poor civ that needs to pay contract price.
The co alignment is really not an issue between lasers. It is more noticable the actual zero shift for distance like 100 yards and further it's not really usable due to right offset from optic. That becomes a silly argument anyway due to identification like you said.
WADSN NGAL $>100 .... why somo instead?
But on their own website, it says that these are ONLY for airsoft ans cant hold zero on a real gun....is this true ?????? Also isnt it chinese???
For legal reasons they have to say that....so they can masquerade it as a toy. And I don't think any of them are made in America. Maybe the Designate IR-V but I don't think so
@@ThinLineDefenseCo thank you 💯🔥 I'm going to get one!!!😁😁😁 idc if it's made in China 🔥
Anyone got a cousin in Mexico that can make a drop in full power IR laser guts to replace the neutered Civilian version.
Other than just wanting to say it’s full power….why do you want that? I night hunt on 3k acres and can easily see my holosun LS117 laser @ 1k yard, much farther than I can shoot at night under nods with a 5.56 gun
Doing that as a service for others is illegal. The electronics are considered the "laser system" which would be FDA controlled. The person making, so in this case manufacturing them, would get fucked over really hard.
Why the laser? My somo peq15 is nearly too damn bright on low. Better to have a brighter illuminator with real ND filters.
alright im sold somogear it is.
probably just take it apart and seal it with some epoxy and hot glue and she will be golden.
Doesn't it come potted?
@KN-cool ya but I don't trust the Chinese to qc those type of things. They have to cheap out somewhere haha
USS DBAL 😂
The takeaway from this video is pretty obvious. I like keeping more of my money. And the “official” switch is how much? It’s a switch……….jeez.
Fooled with the laser speed m6 yet?
Peep InvisibleSight NGAL series
Gate keeping laser companies are finally getting push back
Where does this guy mention if the NGAL held zero?
you turds made me pull it off for this review in the middle of testing. I'm just running it on a 556 though and there is little to no recoil. I looked at a bunch of other testing on ar10s and those guys had no issues. The zero held true for the full rifle and two optics tests though.
But I said all that in the video....
-Walsh
Somogear, Not just as good... Invisiblesight is pretty damn close. I can't wait to see this guys original TINAL when it comes out.
Goof video, only thing i dont like is calling the Designate and DBAL "The big boys" lol. MAWL, real NGAL, etc are the big boys
I want a shaw nasa font shirt!
He wearing the new agilite belt
Shhh.... we have a discount code coming too! Soon, I promise
@@ThinLineDefenseCo oh shit bet
Don't use washers. Use shim stock.
More videos cutting through the BS in the community please! PSA and Holosun for the poors. Sabre-line Holosun electronics anyone??
While it’s good, every somo gear I had eventually cracks at the body
Thank you for highlighting the garbage that is the IR and NV industry. I’ve hated every single unit I’ve seen. Zero competition in that field. The iris might fall on its face but if it does well then Steiner is in deep doodoo
The real problem is.... and I know this as a guy who works government contracts.. they "get" 😂$$$ contracts, their contracts overpriced the heck out of it because who cares 700billion in funding but the stipulation is they can't sell it for cheaper to the public, so customers assume it's made of unobtainium and we assume everything else is for airsoft.. I have a lpvo I paid 200 for that people always ask. What did it run u $900?
ugh...yea I know this one. I was a First Sergeant for quite some time. It's very annoying that our prices are just set in order to hook government contracts. It's very upsetting but look at companies like Trijicon that didn't make a new product for 10 years. You just ride the contract and do nothing....so all the companies try to do the same.
people gon cry about offset but at the same time run a 25 yrd zero with a 4'' optic height
hahha exxxactly...it's very odd
It feels a lot like Holosun vs an Aimpoint m5
but it's 2024 and Holosun is winning lol
@@ThinLineDefenseCo exactly my point, someone entered the market and undercut the same design with a low price and high quality. I pray somogear can do that too given some time
2nd!
Invisible Sights NGAL would be a better option
I need to try that one!
I agree, just wish his time frame for his builds was not 4-12 weeks which is what he quoted me.
@@MH_6160 modern life made us inpatient. I wouldn’t mind waiting that long
Are they comparable in price?
@@MH_6160 when were you quoted that timeframe? The website currently says 16-24 weeks. I've got one ordered. Hoping to receive it by AUG.
trust me I GET complaining about the price of these units....but why don't we also complain about other parts....I think SCOPE MOUNTS are the worst offenders
Scope mounts have little to no R&D, they are nothing but $25 pieces of aluminum that are marked up over 1500% sold for $300 to $500 then they have the balls to charge insulting prices for 5 degree offset and such.
I am going to buy clones until the markets gets a grip.
The crazy priced ones are pretty bad too. I use a warne xskel or primary arms glx for almost every scope.
The pricing of "brand name" is due to the US military, as is the shitty customer service, the military does not give a hoot what the costs are, they just write checks, if it doesn't work they pitch it and nabb another.
I've had ZERO issues with Steiner, with scopes and RDS as far as customer service.
If it works well enough for training and familiarization, if you gotta have the brand name get good with it at $500 and save the money to just have it.
I don't think Steiner has been known for good customer service but a few folks have mentioned that optic.
I have a Dbal with a crane plug stuck in it for the last 2 years....so I'm not super excited to roll the dice with Steiner.
@ThinLineDefenseCo i cannot attest to a LAW, but I had a scope on a rifle i bought in 1997, fall from my own stupidity while getting another rifle out of the safe and the optic hit the concrete and the scope was toast.
I also own a MPS on my pistol, it had stopped working.
Steiner has a heritage warranty, and I can attest to their customer service, they fixed the MPS and due to its age they couldn't give me a like for like so what they sent was a quantum leap from what I had.
I've had no issues with them.
Gubmint contractors build a 100X into their pricing. Anybody remember 800 dollar toilet seats?
shoot I just retired recently and military paper towels were like 80 bucks a roll... and they were horrible
The prices on these are utterly moronic! There is no reason besides GREED for them to cost this much, its disgusting I could make my own for like $150 to $250 and that includes the shell.
Then do it. If its so easy to make them so cheap then make them for $250 and sell than for $500, heck even for $1000. Youll never be able to keep up with demand and youll never be hurting for money ever again.
Guys you have to remember one important fact, you are not involved in an actual active combat war zone with bullets zinging past your ear, most of you are LARPing (news flash - NOT REAL Combat). Personally, I would not spend all that money, for $4800, could buy 10 Somogear NGALs and have plenty of replacements. For 95% functionally of the overpriced one, I’ll take it.
Complaining about the build quality and mounting system? It's advertised for airsoft, larper.
oh it is?? well this new and amazing information changes everything!!
God we're so lucky to have you around lol
-First Larper Walsh
Yeah, what the heck! Why are these so expensive? (China enters the chat) ..."Hehrooo"
Υou have a new fan and channel follower . Since we talk the same language let me comment on this . 1st there are much better clones than the somegear . They will blow you away by how much closer or even better they are than the real steel item . IS-EG MKII NGAL is on of them with recoil lugs , full power , metal construction and stupid low price ...or is this the proper price ? Because 4000 us for a civil L3 Harris peq15 is stupid . Or is it not ? When it comes down to pricing dot forget cheep , ok let me correct ultra cheep Chinese labous vs USA labour . Even if we used the same body , same internals etc the product that came from the us would always be up to 3X price wise vs China ... Now if you ask me which you didnt but if you did I run a holosun LS117IR stand alone unit ( only IR lazer ) and a surefire m622 dual day and IR light bridged on the same switch ....try and beat that combo 😂😂😂😂
What it's called is a paradigm shift. When a workable solution is 1/5th the cost of any other solution, then the entire industry suffers a paradigm shift.
this is like the quartz crisis in watchmaking
Yeah man, nothing sticks it to the big guys like IP theft and barely paid Chinese labor
People don't like it when Capitalism is Capitalism
My somogear ngal didn’t even last a whole 30 round magazine. Now dealing with the company has been a nightmare… no more weird lasers for me. Save your money boys and girls and buy a decent laser. At least my holosun ls 321g has lasted a while
yuck.... that's super annoying. I don't know anyone at somogear but I can certainly try to help you!
-Walsh
What issue are you having? Mine started shutting off while firing after about 100rnds. Turns out the battery cap just needed to be tightened down further. I'm between 800-1,000rnds so far and no issues. I'm scared to test the water resistance though
1th
Doesn’t fit?! Just add electrical tape
Would anyone else not be surprised if this dude was found to have body parts in his freezer with bite marks?
My freezer is filled with dinosaur chicken nuggets. Sorry
They all have bites in em though.
-Walsh
@@ThinLineDefenseCo That's exactly what someone with a half eaten human thigh in his freezer would say.
crazy how china is giving us our rights back with these offshore FP laser, than our own gov.
FDA...keeping us safe from giving lasik to each other lol
DUDE... clip your fingernails
how did you get this from this video? I need you to take a breath and reassess.
Because this is dumb
@@ThinLineDefenseCo You've got like 15 close ups of you fiddling with the ngal with like half inch long fingernails... shit's like not brushing your teeth.
no haha I work for a living. Cake hands are for cake hand jobs.
Why do you want cake hands?
I appreciated this video and the insight but, for what it’s worth, please don’t constantly preemptively defend yourself from Redditors or commenters. They’re going to comment anyway, and in my opinion all you do is sound a bit insecure and kind of annoying for normal viewers.
Oh I don't care, I just like making it more fun than just data and tests. Just lean into the jokes.
At least I'm not trying to tell you that SDI isn't a scam lol
-Walsh
@@ThinLineDefenseCo I guess I can understand that perspective.
civilians have no purpose for military grade ngals
It's just a flashlight in a different spectrum. You're saying civilians shouldn't own flashlights
It sounds kinda dumb
Civilians... SMH. Great "Public Servant" attitude. Why would you not want ur fellow Americans to have the best gear possible? And I'm not talking about Somogear. I'm talking same weaponry as the military. Do you hate Freedom or love tyranny? Our Founding Fathers knew what they were talking about and We The People isnt specific to Law Enforcement and Military. Freedom is dangerous. Deal with it.
@ nomercyinc6783 how deep is that boot in your throat
@@somnolentSlumber Stockholm Syndrome Deep! 😂👍🏻