4800 is awesome! Her carbody panels are riveted on, instead of welded like the rest. Worth visiting her at the PA Rail Museum! I stood there looking for a long time!
I actually got to see 4800 in person once on my Birthday when I went to the Strasburg Railroad and the Railroad museum of Pennsylvania. I had a blast man. And 4800 was definitely something to gawk at.
Got to see 4800 and 4935 back in 2004 at the museum in Strausburg - though 4800 wasn't accessible, got right up close to 4935 since she was inside. The size of these locos in person is incredible.
The transformer had oil was loaded with PCBs, which typically was removed when the engine was removed from service. The oil was a cooling thing that needed the PCBs to avoid all the bad things that happen with high voltages and surges. That alone is a reason for the engines never running again...
Just so we're clear - the reason they removed the transformers is because the PCB coolant is CARCINOGENIC... aka, it will give you cancer. Nasty stuff.
@@rodrossi9749To be fair, people didn't start to understand the hazard of asbestos until the 1930s. Main issue was, the claim came from Germany, and we Americans weren't about to take it from them at that point in history. Plus, it was cheap and abundant, so we weren't gonna put money into finding out if they were right so we could be forced into finding a more expensive alternative. So, we waited until the economy began to stagnate in 1989 to concern ourselves with it.
The Oil in the transformators is for cooling on the one hand and for insulation between the windings, so that there are no electric arc's in between them.
A GG1 operational restoration would be on the same level as 4014’s restoration. Would take an absolute feat of engineering. However, still likely less intensive than building T1 5550, so who knows. Anything is possible.
At least 4014 is still mostly the same internally aside from being converted to oil, whereas with the GG1 you can't really use the original electrical systems, due to the fact that they use highly toxic and illegal chemicals.
@@DanielChannel57 this is true. That’s why I said it would “take an absolute feat of engineering”. I was looking at 4014 as an example of the required cost rather than any technical bits.
If I'm not mistaken the Illinois Railway museum has the proper lines to operate an electric locomotive. They have Chicago southshore and South bend 803 which according to their site is operational.
The museum can create the voltage de-jure for the locomotive of the day. Amtrak announced that they were going to change from 25 cy to 60cy. So Metro North changed its system, and its new orders were for 60 cy equipment. Amtrak never made the change: New Jersey transit built equipment that could run on either 25 cy or 60 cy, that is why NJT equipment can go to New Haven for the football specials to the Meadow Grounds, but MNCR equipment cannot go to New Jersey. The 25 cycle transformer needs to be a big heavy, honking thing (shades of the GG1), but it can still handle 60 cy. MNCR's equipment was built with a light weight transformer that can do nothing with 12 cycle power. In either case the voltage was irrelevant, but MNCR equipment can run on 750v DC on the third rail a feat that NJT cannot do. But then, NJT equipment will not fit into Grand Central Terminal any way.
June 1981 I was coming back on the Broadway Limited when I checked the locomotive on the front of the train at Harrisburg PA and to my total surprised is was GG1 with fresh paint and smelling like transformers that had never gotten hot before. The GG1 had plaque on it stating it had been restored by a railroad club. South of Wilmington DE my ears were popping as we went under bridges. We had been passing what appeared to be Metroliner service with a 50 mph edge. Everything seemed to be getting out of our way. I clocked a mile at 22.5 seconds. That is 160 mph which would seem reasonable because I'd been in cars at 140 mph and we were going a large step faster. When we got into DC two of the passenger cars had smoke coming from the area of their axle generators. I was extremely aware of the high speed and walked the train. People didn't seem to notice. There was one women looking out the window and she looked scared, but didn't say anything.
There’s always the option of building a new one from scratch! Looks the part on the outside, but completely modernized internals for mainline running. :)
Boonton = boon-tin I used to frequent the URHS with my buddy Tom Gallo, whom I used to live next door to. He's a pretty well-known railroad historian and author, not to mention a great guy. I got to see lots of stuff at URHS and go into the cab of several of the engines, including the E60 and 4879 before she was also restored. Before too long they'll have 3372 running, and I never imagined NJT would pull an ALP-44 out of the deadline just to restore it and donate it, but I wish I could return there with Tom. Tom, if you're out there, I miss you buddy. I hope you're well.
Darkness, please. What’s it gonna take for you to do a video about Chicago & Northwestern 1385? There is so much to talk about for that locomotive, I think you’ll have a really good time talking about her. And did I ever mention that she once broke down and was then repaired in just 12 hours to pull a circus train?
GG1 4890 is in Green Bay Wisconsin at the NATIONAL RAILROAD MUSEUM!! And repainted Red with 5 stripes. But parked in the Lenfestey and FULLER Exhibit Hall since 2001; and parked next to BIG BOY 4-8-8-4 4017; and photos of 4017 and gg1 4890 are used in brochures!!
GG1 4890 and BIG CHUNGUS 4017 are besties forever and ever where else can you get your picture taken with them at the same time? (good luck getting a selfie with them both in the frame not happening)
My first real-life sighting of a working GG1 was in 1983, shortly before they were retired. I was on-loan from my parent company on the West Coast to Bell Labs in NJ, and my first trip into NYC via rail was in some fascinating very old cars pulled by a GG1. Absolutely beautiful machines.
There is another GG1 saved at a museum in Frisco, TX. Too, IIRC, the Illinois Railroad Museum has one along with one of the South Shore's "Little Joes".
One of my favorite electric locomotives; alongside Shinkansen E6, TGV Reseau, Eurostar e300, and ICE 3 class 403. Though that last one could some day be knocked off the top 5 favorites for me by one of the future electric locomotive designs being worked on in Europe.
I think the Illinois Railway Museum still runs an electric of a very similar design every now and then, a GE Little Joe from the Chicago, South Shore and South Bend. 🤔
Voltage and frequency are no where near what the Pennsy used. I seem to remember 25 HZ at 11k volts. Not used anywhere else that I'm aware of. So to get a GG1 to run anywhere would require huge transformers, a all-new electrical system and so on. Effectively gutting the engine and building a new one. Been inside one? The engineer's compartment is tiny.
I'd love for the URHSNJ to get some proper facilities to show off their collection. My state has such a rich railroading history; it's a shame we don't have a proper railroad museum. At least the excellent RR Museum of PA isn't too far away. I'd love to see a GG1 under power, but Darkness is right; even if you could restore one to operation, it could basically only run on the Northeast and Keystone Corridors, both highly-trafficked lines Amtrak would not be likely to allow excursions on.
I got to get inside of the GG1 at the RR Museum of PA. The electric motors were removed. I was told because of PCBs, didn't know about the asbestos. The neat thing in the Loco were the metal art deco water stations, like office water coolers with the big bottle on top, a scuttlebutt if one is a mariner.
From what I understand, it wasn't the motors themselves that had to be removed due to PCBs, but the transformers that relied on PCB oil baths. There are reports that about ten to fifteen years ago, a rail museum in upstate New York did move one of their GG1s a few hundred feet by hooking an arc welder directly up to the traction motor leads, bypassing the rest of the electrical system, but I've never been able to get confirmation of that.
I’ve heard different things regarding the mechanical soundness of the GG1. The general consensus is that none of them have their transformers and many have cracked frames. I think irm could theoretically run their GG1 on 600v DC but don’t quote me on that.
I rode behind d one in the 1980's from Elizabeth New Jersey into New York City. The passenger cars were of a similar vintage. I thought it was pretty cheap the way NJDOT was written in the side of the engine in white paint over the black paint which barely covered the old logo. The letters looked like they were written by hand with a small thin paint brush.
I believe there were two red GG1s, at least. One for the lightweight streamlined "Congressional Limited" (NY - Wash.) and the "Senator" (Boston - Wash.). I saw them frequently in the mid-1950's at North Philadelphia Station, which was a fantastic place for train watching. Florida trains, trains West and South, even the sometimes steam trains to Atlantic City all stopped here. Thanks for the video on the great GG1, workhorse for the PRR in electrified territory.
Beautiful Video! Never say never. A custom built generator car could be built and towed behind a GG1 eliminating the need for overhead power. Yes, there are other obstacles but nothing like this is impossible, it just needs strong will and funding. None of this is by any means easy, just possible.
Could you please talk about Spokane Portland & Seattle 700, Timken 1111, and Northern Pacific 328 in the future. I would love to see all three of those locomotives have their own individual videos, and they have incredibly fascinating stories behind them. I would especially love to see a video of NP 328 because my great-great grandfather drove that locomotive!
There used to be two GG1’s on a sliding in Oneonta, NY, near Maryland, NY off Rt. 7. They were moved 2 or 3 years ago. I don’t remember if it was CP Rail or Norfolk and Southern, which now runs on the old D&H lines from Binghamton to Albany. They were impressive to see.
The GG1 Electric locomotive was the Pennsylvania Railroad & the Pennsylvania Railroad was the GG1 ELECTRIC LOCOMOTIVE. I have seen many GG1 locomotives pull many Pennsylvania & Penn Central trains when I lived in Ridley Park, PA in 1963 and in Newark, DE from 1969 to 1972 when I went into the Navy.
Nothing wrong with that. If your'e ever down in Texas,here's a few great places to visit: Frisco:Museum of the American Railroad. Flatonia:Preserved Switching Tower 3,SP Caboose;viewing platform at the junction. Temple:Preserved Santa Fe Station;Santa Fe Steam Loco,two diesels,three cabooses. Also Katy Depot preserved as well. Galveston:Santa Fe Depot houses the railroad museum. Palestine/Rusk:Texas State Railroad. Grapevine:Grapevine Vintage RR.Runs from Grapevine to Fort Worth and back.Three vintage diesels.
Hello, so I have got this trainz app on my IPad, and one of the latest German Steam Locomotives on it is the 52 class, but with these odd almost square tenders which were called (and I could be wrong, so I apologize for that) “Steam Condenser” tenders. I am curious about that, and if you haven’t brought that sort of thing up in the past since I am a fairly new subscriber on your RUclips channel, would you be able to bring that up on a video some day? Just curious.
I’d love to see one of these workhorses come back to life but like you mentioned, it wouldn’t be feasible. I’m pretty sure the Illinois railway museum has some pantographs up or used to but I highly doubt this locomotive will ever go there
There actually is a way for GG-1 locos to operate, and without overhead lines. Modern diesel electric locomotives often power slugs. Perhaps reversing that idea, by making a slug into a power car, pulled by the GG-1, rebuilt with modern traction motors, removing the unusable PCB laden transformers. It could be done, but not economically. Thanks for the video. Jon, on the U.P., Pacific Coast Line, Santa Barbara Sub., M.P. 404.5
The Illinois Railway Museum has a 4.6 mile line that has overhead power. They run trollies and other electric locomotives from their collection. Not sure if it is set uo to run a GG1, but maybe?
I've often wondered if it would be possible to hotwire a preserved GG1's traction motors to a trailing diesel's prime mover, thus avoiding the missing transformers etc. I'm SURE it's a lot more complex than the overall idea feels! I know there were 5 tuscan red 5-striped GG1s, but were they delivered in TR, or originally painted in brunswick green?
Often wonder if some of these old electrics could be tied into a diesel like a slug, or at the very least act as a control unit so they could be run in preservation even without the catenary.
I don't think the electrical gear is of the same voltage and frequency. A loco could probably be rigged to do that voltage but it would be a crazy expensive alternator/generator. I think the GG1 had a horsepower output beyond what a single loco could provide too 😂
If it was to be done, the object wouldn't be to run the GG1 at full power, like any other road slug it would use any excess current the diesel's generator cranks out to help start the train, but above a certain speed it would cut out and all the motive power would be from the diesels and it would be a glorified control car. Admittedly got the idea from some old fireless steam locomotives. Seen a few brought back into running order by throwing big diesel air compressors behind them in makeshift tenders, charges their resevoirs in between bouts of switching action.
The only American heritage “railroad” in America which would have the infrastructure and capacity to run a GG1, would of course be the Illinois Railroad Museum, seeing as they already run steam, diesel/internal combustion, and electric locomotives.
I think for the purpose of running a GG1 and having it pull a set of like 7 full length passenger cars is possible. You could convert the pilot truck to power truck like on a modern electric/diesel, then either put a diesel engine inside, or run it off of the current over head system. Now a better rebuild would have the 6 wheel drive motor trucks fitted with a modern electric or electric/diesel type power system and then power it off the over head wires. It won't be the same but it will run.
I understand about the cost of running and restoring the gg1. But, the cost could be shared by establishing a dedicated foundation to raise the money as with PRR T1 from an earlier age, or even the cruise ship United States which is docked in Philadelphia. If overhead electric lines are the problem, then converting a gg1 to run on diesel or oil burning could be a solution. Preserving technology is crucial.
I believe there’s a GG1 in Virginia somewhere. I often catch glimpses of it on the Virtual Railfan YT channel. It’s kind of in rough shape, though. A big problem with any “electric” loco is compatibility with the power supplied by the overhead wire. There didn’t seem to be a standard for this, so both DC and AC systems could be encountered, along with different voltages. If operating on AC, you had to worry about frequency as well. The U.S. pretty much all uses 60 Hz, but Great Britain uses 50 Hz, and some countries may have used 25 Hz, though I have no personal experience with such things, so take this with a grain of salt. Finally, you had systems with overhead wire, and others with a third rail. Probably the easiest path to a functional GG1 is to take the body shell and lower frame and trucks (bogies) from a real GG1 and adapt an existing electric locomotive already in use on the Northeast Corridor to that body shell. A “kitbash”, in model railroader terms. The other option is to make the pantographs non-functional (you could raise and lower them, but they wouldn’t pick up electrical current), and gut the internals and put in a modern prime mover from a Tier-4 compliant diesel-electric locomotive and generator, etc… Again, it would look like a GG1, but would sound like an SD90MAC or ES44ACe or some such.
Yes it's at Roanoke, I see it in every Virtual Railfan Grab Bag video. Broadly speaking the US used two systems: If it was a Westinghouse system then it was AC 11,000 volts at 25 Hz. If it was General Electric it was DC at 3000 volts, although there were other voltages used in DC as well.
There has been some talk about restoring a unit to operation which currently is sitting abandoned in the woods alongside several others. These are beyond museum level restoration and have little curative value as most of the stuff in the cabs is gone or smashed. Gutting one of these for new internals and reinforcing the frames would be expensive, but it would allow for modern easily repairable equipment inside the vintage GG1 shell. Less expensive than building one from scratch, and it could be run often without the fear of ruining some irreplaceable components.
@@rodrossi9749 yes, a lot of the lighter built components are falling apart. However, the frames should be good aside from any potential stress cracks from fatigue over so many decades of use. You would definitely want to put a few new skin panels on there anyway, because it would make removing the old internals and adding the new stuff that much easier. Plus it would save a lot of time and money, trying to smooth out any surface imperfections caused by sitting in the woods for so long. Basically what you would be getting is a frame and the trucks to work with. Trying to restore all of the original internals would be catastrophically, expensive and incredibly time-consuming. Anything that could be salvaged from in the unit could be removed and worked on separately and put on display in a building. It might be cool to see the steam generator sitting by itself, if it is still even installed.
When battery powered locomotives get past their teething stages, a different kind of "cosmetic" restoration of a GG1 altogether could happen. Give it new tractive motors and internal components to connect to the pantograph lines but also loaded up inside with battery banks and an inverter-rectifier idk.Keep it visually the same on the outside. Someone could figure it out.
Good luck trying to get any actual genuine sample running again. The GG1s contained really hazardous chemicals due to their pantograph system. Replicas would be something that's in disguise and not reliant on a pantograph system.
Plenty of overhead power above the acela .......lets fund raise big red back to life! We have plenty of vintage diesel and steam locos prowling the rails....its only reasonable we restored an electric one.
You also have the problem of the PCB oil that cools the electrical systems. The GG1's were leaking it their entire life and I don't think that got better with time.
It's good to see such a well-loved loco in preservation, even if as you say the chances of her running again is pretty close to zero. Being part of a tramway museum I've seen first-hand what is involved in keeping just a heritage electric tram line running (at 700V DC), so setting up electrification for a heritage heavy rail museum at 11kVAC for the GG1 would be an order of magnitude higher. Personally though, I have to say I find the body design aesthetics of the GG1 pretty hideous, it's how the dual cabs are so far away from each end with the pantograph units *forwards* of the cab look really weird with what to me seems an unnecessarily steam-loco inspired layout. I can't imagine what visibility for the drivers would have been like. Maybe I'm just used to the *gasp* British Rail electric locos and similar designs in New Zealand. Still, we all have different tastes on what makes a loco look good, and I appreciate that there's plenty of people out there who would disagree with me. And that's okay. 🙂
The cab design came about because of a grade crossing accident during the early 30s which involved the loss of life of the engine crew (the loco involved had a box cab configuration). That (steeple cab) configuration of cab was also used on the PRR P5a modified class and the R1 2-D-2 and the DD2 2-B-B-2 locos.
all this hyperbole and no mention of Raymond Lowey who designed this locomotive, the S1 and the T1. As well as many famous Studebakers, BMW's and much of what Industrial design was what we experienced in the US
I think that PRR should have adopted British Railway's Brunswick Green instead of that dark shade... PRR's Brunswick Green aged really bad to flat black.
🦁🦁🦁🦁🦁🦁LION c LIKE No. 823 -----> The big problem is the OIL in the transformers. It is very toxic, and those locomotives that have any of that oil which may be leaking, they cannot even move the locomotive without its parking place becoming a toxic waste site. As long as it is not moved, no problem, if it is moved then you have a problem.
Okay, hear me out. We make it into a hybrid. We swap out the motors for modern ones, and attach a baggage car with a diesel generator and batteries. See if Toyota will foot the bill for research.
Um, Boonton is pronounced Boot'n - more-or-less. I may not know degrees of curve but... there's some local color for ya anyway. The Lacakwanna Cutoff will be an abject failure if they don't find a way to get there that takes less than three hours. (That's the kind of stuff I'm good at, little pithy truisms.)
I love that the prototype of the gg1s 4800 is still around and in a museum which her story is worth getting into.
4800 is awesome! Her carbody panels are riveted on, instead of welded like the rest. Worth visiting her at the PA Rail Museum! I stood there looking for a long time!
@@fredjacobs love old rivetside
@@Ohiotrucker1shame she has to sit outside, exposed to the elements, but there’s only so much room indoors.
I actually got to see 4800 in person once on my Birthday when I went to the Strasburg Railroad and the Railroad museum of Pennsylvania. I had a blast man. And 4800 was definitely something to gawk at.
Got to see 4800 and 4935 back in 2004 at the museum in Strausburg - though 4800 wasn't accessible, got right up close to 4935 since she was inside. The size of these locos in person is incredible.
The transformer had oil was loaded with PCBs, which typically was removed when the engine was removed from service. The oil was a cooling thing that needed the PCBs to avoid all the bad things that happen with high voltages and surges. That alone is a reason for the engines never running again...
Just so we're clear - the reason they removed the transformers is because the PCB coolant is CARCINOGENIC... aka, it will give you cancer. Nasty stuff.
Kinda like not being able to find an alternative to asbestos ????
Ridiculous.
@@rodrossi9749To be fair, people didn't start to understand the hazard of asbestos until the 1930s. Main issue was, the claim came from Germany, and we Americans weren't about to take it from them at that point in history.
Plus, it was cheap and abundant, so we weren't gonna put money into finding out if they were right so we could be forced into finding a more expensive alternative.
So, we waited until the economy began to stagnate in 1989 to concern ourselves with it.
The Oil in the transformators is for cooling on the one hand and for insulation between the windings, so that there are no electric arc's in between them.
A GG1 operational restoration would be on the same level as 4014’s restoration. Would take an absolute feat of engineering. However, still likely less intensive than building T1 5550, so who knows. Anything is possible.
At least 4014 is still mostly the same internally aside from being converted to oil, whereas with the GG1 you can't really use the original electrical systems, due to the fact that they use highly toxic and illegal chemicals.
The difference is that 4014 was actually possible without completely changing the technology
@@DanielChannel57 this is true. That’s why I said it would “take an absolute feat of engineering”. I was looking at 4014 as an example of the required cost rather than any technical bits.
If someone wants to make a GG1 operational, I think it would be better to just put a prime mover in one
If I'm not mistaken the Illinois Railway museum has the proper lines to operate an electric locomotive. They have Chicago southshore and South bend 803 which according to their site is operational.
Probably not 11kv 25Hz like the PRR used, though. South Shore used a different standard that isn't compatible with the PRR electrification.
The museum can create the voltage de-jure for the locomotive of the day.
Amtrak announced that they were going to change from 25 cy to 60cy. So Metro North changed its system, and its new orders were for 60 cy equipment. Amtrak never made the change: New Jersey transit built equipment that could run on either 25 cy or 60 cy, that is why NJT equipment can go to New Haven for the football specials to the Meadow Grounds, but MNCR equipment cannot go to New Jersey. The 25 cycle transformer needs to be a big heavy, honking thing (shades of the GG1), but it can still handle 60 cy. MNCR's equipment was built with a light weight transformer that can do nothing with 12 cycle power. In either case the voltage was irrelevant, but MNCR equipment can run on 750v DC on the third rail a feat that NJT cannot do. But then, NJT equipment will not fit into Grand Central Terminal any way.
June 1981 I was coming back on the Broadway Limited when I checked the locomotive on the front of the train at Harrisburg PA and to my total surprised is was GG1 with fresh paint and smelling like transformers that had never gotten hot before. The GG1 had plaque on it stating it had been restored by a railroad club. South of Wilmington DE my ears were popping as we went under bridges. We had been passing what appeared to be Metroliner service with a 50 mph edge. Everything seemed to be getting out of our way. I clocked a mile at 22.5 seconds. That is 160 mph which would seem reasonable because I'd been in cars at 140 mph and we were going a large step faster. When we got into DC two of the passenger cars had smoke coming from the area of their axle generators. I was extremely aware of the high speed and walked the train. People didn't seem to notice. There was one women looking out the window and she looked scared, but didn't say anything.
There’s always the option of building a new one from scratch! Looks the part on the outside, but completely modernized internals for mainline running. :)
Boonton = boon-tin
I used to frequent the URHS with my buddy Tom Gallo, whom I used to live next door to. He's a pretty well-known railroad historian and author, not to mention a great guy. I got to see lots of stuff at URHS and go into the cab of several of the engines, including the E60 and 4879 before she was also restored.
Before too long they'll have 3372 running, and I never imagined NJT would pull an ALP-44 out of the deadline just to restore it and donate it, but I wish I could return there with Tom.
Tom, if you're out there, I miss you buddy. I hope you're well.
Darkness, please. What’s it gonna take for you to do a video about Chicago & Northwestern 1385? There is so much to talk about for that locomotive, I think you’ll have a really good time talking about her. And did I ever mention that she once broke down and was then repaired in just 12 hours to pull a circus train?
GG1 4890 is in Green Bay Wisconsin at the NATIONAL RAILROAD MUSEUM!! And repainted Red with 5 stripes. But parked in the Lenfestey and FULLER Exhibit Hall since 2001; and parked next to BIG BOY 4-8-8-4 4017; and photos of 4017 and gg1 4890 are used in brochures!!
No offense but that GG1 needs to come home to the North East Corridor!
GG1 4890 and BIG CHUNGUS 4017 are besties forever and ever where else can you get your picture taken with them at the same time? (good luck getting a selfie with them both in the frame not happening)
My first real-life sighting of a working GG1 was in 1983, shortly before they were retired. I was on-loan from my parent company on the West Coast to Bell Labs in NJ, and my first trip into NYC via rail was in some fascinating very old cars pulled by a GG1. Absolutely beautiful machines.
The URHS of NJ is underrated imo.
The RR Museum in Frisco has a GG1 on display as well as a UP Big Boy and an IC Electric Suburban Commuter Train 😮😅
@@JohnPatterson-kz8jr thats crazy.
@@buecomet831 How's that crazy??
I thought that NS got a GG1 restored back to running about 15 years ago.
I remember seeing a photo of it in Trains.
@@JohnPatterson-kz8jr idk i just like trains in museums.
There is another GG1 saved at a museum in Frisco, TX. Too, IIRC, the Illinois Railroad Museum has one along with one of the South Shore's "Little Joes".
One of my favorite electric locomotives; alongside Shinkansen E6, TGV Reseau, Eurostar e300, and ICE 3 class 403.
Though that last one could some day be knocked off the top 5 favorites for me by one of the future electric locomotive designs being worked on in Europe.
I think the Illinois Railway Museum still runs an electric of a very similar design every now and then, a GE Little Joe from the Chicago, South Shore and South Bend. 🤔
Yeah, but like the AEM-7 they have there, it would take much more voltage to make it run even if they somehow found a way to make the GG1 operational
Voltage and frequency are no where near what the Pennsy used. I seem to remember 25 HZ at 11k volts. Not used anywhere else that I'm aware of. So to get a GG1 to run anywhere would require huge transformers, a all-new electrical system and so on. Effectively gutting the engine and building a new one. Been inside one? The engineer's compartment is tiny.
I'd love for the URHSNJ to get some proper facilities to show off their collection. My state has such a rich railroading history; it's a shame we don't have a proper railroad museum. At least the excellent RR Museum of PA isn't too far away. I'd love to see a GG1 under power, but Darkness is right; even if you could restore one to operation, it could basically only run on the Northeast and Keystone Corridors, both highly-trafficked lines Amtrak would not be likely to allow excursions on.
I got to get inside of the GG1 at the RR Museum of PA. The electric motors were removed. I was told because of PCBs, didn't know about the asbestos. The neat thing in the Loco were the metal art deco water stations, like office water coolers with the big bottle on top, a scuttlebutt if one is a mariner.
From what I understand, it wasn't the motors themselves that had to be removed due to PCBs, but the transformers that relied on PCB oil baths. There are reports that about ten to fifteen years ago, a rail museum in upstate New York did move one of their GG1s a few hundred feet by hooking an arc welder directly up to the traction motor leads, bypassing the rest of the electrical system, but I've never been able to get confirmation of that.
Transformer, that was what I meant. Thank you.@@rdfox76
Yes! You’re talking about one of my favorite engines! If only the Mikados were interesting enough to warrant a video, but I love these trains.
I’ve heard different things regarding the mechanical soundness of the GG1. The general consensus is that none of them have their transformers and many have cracked frames. I think irm could theoretically run their GG1 on 600v DC but don’t quote me on that.
Stunning design and the restoration makes it look new. Thank you for sharing.
I rode behind d one in the 1980's from Elizabeth New Jersey into New York City.
The passenger cars were of a similar vintage.
I thought it was pretty cheap the way NJDOT was written in the side of the engine in white paint over the black paint which barely covered the old logo.
The letters looked like they were written by hand with a small thin paint brush.
GG1's look like they want to go fast.
I believe there were two red GG1s, at least. One for the lightweight streamlined "Congressional Limited" (NY - Wash.) and the "Senator" (Boston - Wash.). I saw them frequently in the mid-1950's at North Philadelphia Station, which was a fantastic place for train watching. Florida trains, trains West and South, even the sometimes steam trains to Atlantic City all stopped here. Thanks for the video on the great GG1, workhorse for the PRR in electrified territory.
Beautiful Video! Never say never. A custom built generator car could be built and towed behind a GG1 eliminating the need for overhead power. Yes, there are other obstacles but nothing like this is impossible, it just needs strong will and funding. None of this is by any means easy, just possible.
I rode to the 1965 World’s Fair behind a GG1.
You could run an electric locomotive like that with a diesel power car which would make it an articulated diesel Electric.
Now that 4877 is in Brunswick green again, would that make her "Big Green?" 😂😂
Could you please talk about Spokane Portland & Seattle 700, Timken 1111, and Northern Pacific 328 in the future. I would love to see all three of those locomotives have their own individual videos, and they have incredibly fascinating stories behind them. I would especially love to see a video of NP 328 because my great-great grandfather drove that locomotive!
Thank you for a great video and history.
There used to be two GG1’s on a sliding in Oneonta, NY, near Maryland, NY off Rt. 7. They were moved 2 or 3 years ago. I don’t remember if it was CP Rail or Norfolk and Southern, which now runs on the old D&H lines from Binghamton to Albany. They were impressive to see.
The GG1 Electric locomotive was the Pennsylvania Railroad & the Pennsylvania Railroad was the GG1 ELECTRIC LOCOMOTIVE. I have seen many GG1 locomotives pull many Pennsylvania & Penn Central trains when I lived in Ridley Park, PA in 1963 and in Newark, DE from 1969 to 1972 when I went into the Navy.
My uncle worked on the production line of these works of art. He died back in 1974 from lung issues do to the aspedtis lining the pennsy used.
Trolley museum in Perris CA has catenary lines but it's not NEC level power.
They need to fully restore one of these beast
Nothing wrong with that.
If your'e ever down in Texas,here's a few great places to visit:
Frisco:Museum of the American Railroad.
Flatonia:Preserved Switching Tower 3,SP Caboose;viewing platform at the junction.
Temple:Preserved Santa Fe Station;Santa Fe Steam Loco,two diesels,three cabooses.
Also Katy Depot preserved as well.
Galveston:Santa Fe Depot houses the railroad museum.
Palestine/Rusk:Texas State Railroad.
Grapevine:Grapevine Vintage RR.Runs from Grapevine to Fort Worth and back.Three vintage diesels.
Hello, so I have got this trainz app on my IPad, and one of the latest German Steam Locomotives on it is the 52 class, but with these odd almost square tenders which were called (and I could be wrong, so I apologize for that) “Steam Condenser” tenders. I am curious about that, and if you haven’t brought that sort of thing up in the past since I am a fairly new subscriber on your RUclips channel, would you be able to bring that up on a video some day? Just curious.
I’d love to see one of these workhorses come back to life but like you mentioned, it wouldn’t be feasible. I’m pretty sure the Illinois railway museum has some pantographs up or used to but I highly doubt this locomotive will ever go there
There actually is a way for GG-1 locos to operate, and without overhead lines. Modern diesel electric locomotives often power slugs. Perhaps reversing that idea, by making a slug into a power car, pulled by the GG-1, rebuilt with modern traction motors, removing the unusable PCB laden transformers. It could be done, but not economically. Thanks for the video. Jon, on the U.P., Pacific Coast Line, Santa Barbara Sub., M.P. 404.5
The Illinois Railway Museum has a 4.6 mile line that has overhead power. They run trollies and other electric locomotives from their collection. Not sure if it is set uo to run a GG1, but maybe?
I've often wondered if it would be possible to hotwire a preserved GG1's traction motors to a trailing diesel's prime mover, thus avoiding the missing transformers etc. I'm SURE it's a lot more complex than the overall idea feels! I know there were 5 tuscan red 5-striped GG1s, but were they delivered in TR, or originally painted in brunswick green?
Often wonder if some of these old electrics could be tied into a diesel like a slug, or at the very least act as a control unit so they could be run in preservation even without the catenary.
I don't think the electrical gear is of the same voltage and frequency. A loco could probably be rigged to do that voltage but it would be a crazy expensive alternator/generator. I think the GG1 had a horsepower output beyond what a single loco could provide too 😂
If it was to be done, the object wouldn't be to run the GG1 at full power, like any other road slug it would use any excess current the diesel's generator cranks out to help start the train, but above a certain speed it would cut out and all the motive power would be from the diesels and it would be a glorified control car.
Admittedly got the idea from some old fireless steam locomotives. Seen a few brought back into running order by throwing big diesel air compressors behind them in makeshift tenders, charges their resevoirs in between bouts of switching action.
it'd be cheaper to build a working replica, at least then it'd have modern componentry
The only American heritage “railroad” in America which would have the infrastructure and capacity to run a GG1, would of course be the Illinois Railroad Museum, seeing as they already run steam, diesel/internal combustion, and electric locomotives.
Yeah knew that. Imagine them acquiring A GG1? That would be crazy. I mean they have the last operating Milw Little Joe
We could use it as a cab control car for a photo shoot, but that’s just what I think.
It's so nice to see a GG1 in Pensy colors, instead of the Penn Central abomination.
I think for the purpose of running a GG1 and having it pull a set of like 7 full length passenger cars is possible. You could convert the pilot truck to power truck like on a modern electric/diesel, then either put a diesel engine inside, or run it off of the current over head system.
Now a better rebuild would have the 6 wheel drive motor trucks fitted with a modern electric or electric/diesel type power system and then power it off the over head wires. It won't be the same but it will run.
I understand about the cost of running and restoring the gg1. But, the cost could be shared by establishing a dedicated foundation to raise the money as with PRR T1 from an earlier age, or even the cruise ship United States which is docked in Philadelphia. If overhead electric lines are the problem, then converting a gg1 to run on diesel or oil burning could be a solution. Preserving technology is crucial.
The GG1 was the first streamlined electric locomotives built in America.
I believe there’s a GG1 in Virginia somewhere. I often catch glimpses of it on the Virtual Railfan YT channel. It’s kind of in rough shape, though.
A big problem with any “electric” loco is compatibility with the power supplied by the overhead wire. There didn’t seem to be a standard for this, so both DC and AC systems could be encountered, along with different voltages. If operating on AC, you had to worry about frequency as well. The U.S. pretty much all uses 60 Hz, but Great Britain uses 50 Hz, and some countries may have used 25 Hz, though I have no personal experience with such things, so take this with a grain of salt. Finally, you had systems with overhead wire, and others with a third rail.
Probably the easiest path to a functional GG1 is to take the body shell and lower frame and trucks (bogies) from a real GG1 and adapt an existing electric locomotive already in use on the Northeast Corridor to that body shell. A “kitbash”, in model railroader terms. The other option is to make the pantographs non-functional (you could raise and lower them, but they wouldn’t pick up electrical current), and gut the internals and put in a modern prime mover from a Tier-4 compliant diesel-electric locomotive and generator, etc… Again, it would look like a GG1, but would sound like an SD90MAC or ES44ACe or some such.
Yes it's at Roanoke, I see it in every Virtual Railfan Grab Bag video.
Broadly speaking the US used two systems: If it was a Westinghouse system then it was AC 11,000 volts at 25 Hz. If it was General Electric it was DC at 3000 volts, although there were other voltages used in DC as well.
I suggest a video on little joes
ive heard of the URHS they even let me in the cab of an ALP-44
There has been some talk about restoring a unit to operation which currently is sitting abandoned in the woods alongside several others. These are beyond museum level restoration and have little curative value as most of the stuff in the cabs is gone or smashed. Gutting one of these for new internals and reinforcing the frames would be expensive, but it would allow for modern easily repairable equipment inside the vintage GG1 shell. Less expensive than building one from scratch, and it could be run often without the fear of ruining some irreplaceable components.
That loco has been land locked for decades......it will probably never move again. Last time I saw it, it was beginning to fall apart.....😪
@@rodrossi9749 yes, a lot of the lighter built components are falling apart. However, the frames should be good aside from any potential stress cracks from fatigue over so many decades of use. You would definitely want to put a few new skin panels on there anyway, because it would make removing the old internals and adding the new stuff that much easier. Plus it would save a lot of time and money, trying to smooth out any surface imperfections caused by sitting in the woods for so long. Basically what you would be getting is a frame and the trucks to work with. Trying to restore all of the original internals would be catastrophically, expensive and incredibly time-consuming. Anything that could be salvaged from in the unit could be removed and worked on separately and put on display in a building. It might be cool to see the steam generator sitting by itself, if it is still even installed.
When battery powered locomotives get past their teething stages, a different kind of "cosmetic" restoration of a GG1 altogether could happen. Give it new tractive motors and internal components to connect to the pantograph lines but also loaded up inside with battery banks and an inverter-rectifier idk.Keep it visually the same on the outside. Someone could figure it out.
I almost thought this was the GG1 that crashed into a train station
Both GG1’s I am referring to were, both I would guess, of the Red color. I wished I got their numbers and RR affiliation.
Good luck trying to get any actual genuine sample running again. The GG1s contained really hazardous chemicals due to their pantograph system. Replicas would be something that's in disguise and not reliant on a pantograph system.
Plenty of overhead power above the acela .......lets fund raise big red back to life! We have plenty of vintage diesel and steam locos prowling the rails....its only reasonable we restored an electric one.
You also have the problem of the PCB oil that cools the electrical systems. The GG1's were leaking it their entire life and I don't think that got better with time.
Wiring transformer’s traction motors loaded with PCB’s. Environmental nightmare.
Plus PCBs in the cabin were carcinogenic 😢👎🏻( we have one at Illinois Railway Museum)
I belive theirs a rail museum in Illinois that has pantagraphs
Loads of museums have Pantagraphs. IRM, EBT, etc
Laughs in Illinois railway museum having full overhead wire but cry’s in asbestos
It's good to see such a well-loved loco in preservation, even if as you say the chances of her running again is pretty close to zero. Being part of a tramway museum I've seen first-hand what is involved in keeping just a heritage electric tram line running (at 700V DC), so setting up electrification for a heritage heavy rail museum at 11kVAC for the GG1 would be an order of magnitude higher.
Personally though, I have to say I find the body design aesthetics of the GG1 pretty hideous, it's how the dual cabs are so far away from each end with the pantograph units *forwards* of the cab look really weird with what to me seems an unnecessarily steam-loco inspired layout. I can't imagine what visibility for the drivers would have been like. Maybe I'm just used to the *gasp* British Rail electric locos and similar designs in New Zealand.
Still, we all have different tastes on what makes a loco look good, and I appreciate that there's plenty of people out there who would disagree with me. And that's okay. 🙂
The cab design came about because of a grade crossing accident during the early 30s which involved the loss of life of the engine crew (the loco involved had a box cab configuration). That (steeple cab) configuration of cab was also used on the PRR P5a modified class and the R1 2-D-2 and the DD2 2-B-B-2 locos.
all this hyperbole and no mention of Raymond Lowey who designed this locomotive, the S1 and the T1. As well as many famous Studebakers, BMW's and much of what Industrial design was what we experienced in the US
Brunswick Green. It’s confusing because it Literally looks Black at times.
The formula is one drop of green per gallon of black, IIRC. ;)
I think that PRR should have adopted British Railway's Brunswick Green instead of that dark shade... PRR's Brunswick Green aged really bad to flat black.
@@centamangila1217, I agree, then it wouldn’t be Confused for the Color Black.
🦁🦁🦁🦁🦁🦁LION c LIKE No. 823 -----> The big problem is the OIL in the transformers. It is very toxic, and those locomotives that have any of that oil which may be leaking, they cannot even move the locomotive without its parking place becoming a toxic waste site. As long as it is not moved, no problem, if it is moved then you have a problem.
5:25 Illinois railway museum
hi youtube
"Pantograph line" = Overheat Catenary. See Northeast Corridor.
Okay, hear me out. We make it into a hybrid. We swap out the motors for modern ones, and attach a baggage car with a diesel generator and batteries. See if Toyota will foot the bill for research.
Mmm OK, if that Diesel engine can put out about 5000HP...
Steamtown NHS has a pantograph network
New York Pennsylvania Station to Washington DC (overhead power lines).
and also to Harrisburg.
From Ol Big Red to Ol Big Black…
Plus you could either modernize one, or convert it to diesel or something else
At that point, it's not really a GG1, then, it's just some new locomotive cosplaying as one.
@rdfox76 no, locomotives have been repowered before by their owners and the locomotive was still the same locomotive
Well, if she needs a rebuild to run anyway, why not put some batteries in her instead?
GG1's had AC traction motors.
Um, Boonton is pronounced Boot'n - more-or-less. I may not know degrees of curve but... there's some local color for ya anyway. The Lacakwanna Cutoff will be an abject failure if they don't find a way to get there that takes less than three hours. (That's the kind of stuff I'm good at, little pithy truisms.)
:)