I am 63 yr old, a native Texan. I am an avid history fan and until now, I have sadly disdained all of Western history of the US except the story of Lewis and Clark. But recently I am exploring the bizarre excursions of those who chose to venture west. Your channel is marvelous!!! Thanks for this video. Side note: Maybe those dreadful western movies of the 70's were the reason!! lol
Great story, I lived in Bullhead City years ago and visited the place where she was kept in Oatman. I used to work at one of the casinos, great people out there, thanks for your wonderful accounts of her life. I was told she wanted to return and told her brother so.
I know from experience that having a parent die of violent crime takes years to overcome. I can't imagine having to witness it. I have no doubt this child was raped, and I'm sure she submitted to it. What else could she do? This, plus traumatized by witnessing the murder of her family, the trauma of having to walk all that way, being beaten, the culture shock; she would have had such severe PTSD that only someone who had experienced the same could understand. I'm sure the Mohaves were a welcome relief for her, and she didn't want to leave the bit of safety she had found, and clung to it. Whether she wanted to go, or not, is irrelevant. I don't think she could have made an objective choice given her mental state. All one has to do is look at her photos and see the sadness in her eyes. I pray God rests this poor woman's soul.
This was a great vid! Lots of details I never knew. I lived in the town of Oatman, Az in the 90s, and only heard the story in very broad strokes. You managed to really capture the human side of the characters I only knew as names. Thanks, good sir!
I believe she felt like a woman not completely belonging in either world. She lost her family and then her family. I believe she mourned her entire life.
@@JenaEmerald I know what it means because I've vheard my family members use it. The term was also used in the old movies back in the 1940's. It means showing favor and affection, being attentive and responsive to your partner. It has come to mean out and out sex but originally emotion and care was the first meaning. You can hear actors in old movies used the term. My dad would use it when two people were just walking, holding hands and enraptured with each other. That was, "making love".
@@thinkinoutloud.1 thanks for the explanation. I’ve never heard it used that way. It does remind me of something similar that sounded shocking. CS Lewis wrote in one of The Chronicle’s of Narnia that one of the characters grew up to be a beautiful queen and have many lovers. I thought it was strange to say. Do you think this is along the same lines? Would “Lover” mean a person you love in general rather than the current meaning?
@@richardrhodes4701 We always commented that they had large heads. I remember that they way they would acknowledge each other when driving would be to take both hands off the wheel like a wave. I liked them we were invited to a couple parties on the res when I was there.
That Scripture found in the Book of Jeremiah refers to the Jews returning to Israel... Has nothing to do with Arizona. Tucson is directly under or atop Jerusalem...
Two things: I'm surprised you didn't mention that Olive's sister died in captivity. Also, Nobody asked Olive what she wanted to do. I don't think she wanted to be "rescued".
Hi Bob! I grew up in Kingman, Arizona, too, from 1967 when I was four until I left at 19 and moved to Lake Havasu, and back to Tempe from 1989 to 2001. I'm in Reno now. It's nice to hear from a familiar name. 😊 Olive Oatman's story has always fascinated me! It was interesting to hear your take on her. Cheers! Julie Hodges
I've read several pieces about Ms. Oatman but this adds some things I have not heard before. It is my understanding that both she and her sister and members of the tribe she was living with went through an extended period of near starvation and finally starvation took the life of her sister. If she had children, I would question if they could have survived that period of starvation. I also wonder if she could have had the strength and where with all to even give birth. She was in "captivity" for five years from the age of thirteen. Olive reported that while in the hands of the Mohave she was properly treated. I would say she would have been sexually active naturally or by force. It is not something I would judge her on. If she lost a child(s), it would have been another burden to carry all of the remainder of her life. She reportedly could not have children but did adopt a child she later lost. As to the tattoo's, my understanding is that Mohave tattoos were meant as identification for when they entered the afterlife. Olive gave differing reports on their meaning. I believe Olive survived in spite of the most difficult circumstances possible. I respect her for that and the life she lived after she returned to the white culture. The place where she was taken is still today a brutal area. There is no greenery, little vegetation and filled with rocks. To take that large family along the path they later chose was insanity.
Wow, what a fantastic way to tie all those amazing stories in together. I think as far as the entomologist is concerned any first people that saw him would've had a big laugh, thought him absolutely nuts and he would have no idea he had been seen.
Thank you for sharing this story. But I don't believe you mentioned what happened to her sister that was also taken by the Indians. I believe she died in captivity? Do you know the details of her death? Thanks!
My 5th great grandmother. Jenny Wiley was kidnapped by a band of natives from different tribes. First they bludgeoned her little brother and 4 children to death then scalped them all right before her eyes. Then they kidnapped her along with her baby. She was forced to work as a slave until she escaped. Also they killed her smallest by grabbing his feet and swinging him against a tree until his head was smashed all over the tree. This is a matter of history, and there are records of it.
it shows that the native americans weren't all love and light honouring the great spirit in all. Even native americans succumb to their lowest human natures. Not the most pure human specimens.
We did unspeakable things, they did unspeakable things- thus the term ‘savage’ comes from. We fought back and forth for 400 years and they were serious warriors and I say that loosely as many different people came into this region to fight at different times and they were often fighting each other (different tribes)- in the end, ‘we’ ended up ‘winning’ per say just because of things like weaponry etc. But to say Native Americans were victims that were walking around peacefully picking daisies and kissing Buffalo on the lips is completely wrong.
Great history lesson! Today’s DNA test could determine if any Mojave’s and Oatman’s shared biology. Perhaps Olive’s brother had family and they could provide the DNA sample.
Native American DNA is very hard to understand even today. I'm from the Paiute Tribe of Northern Nevada and come from a full Paiute mother and my dad is 3/4 Paiute. My ancestors were from Paiute and Shoshone tribes. My brother and I show DNA from China, Japan, Vietnam and then up South America including Peru, Columbia and Mexican. They haven't come up with a true DNA test for Native Americans yet bit I'll be waiting if it happens in my lifetime. The 1/4 of my father's Caucasian blood was easier to decipher showing German and Scottish lines. May this family find healing in this life and beyond.
@@tdemartini7357What test did you take. How can a test decipher “Mexican” DNA? My 23/me shows American Indigenous with Iberian. If there was no US border, it makes no sense how “Mexican” can be identified as its own category.
there is a program entitled " the ghost inside my child " on the lmn network. in one of the segments it was thought that a little girl who had nightmares of that era in history was the reincarnation of olive oatman. fascinating
Seems that Culture Shock was the overriding theme of Olive Oatman's life. She endured more than most women today could deal with and not be forever changed/scarred by the experience.
@@ericvantassell6809 i think your epistemology is faulty, based on your actually inability to distinquish between belief and opinion. Whatever happened to her it would have been nowhere near as savage, inhuman or traumatic as what the whites did to the native american and blacks they kept as slaves.
It seems to me the modern Mohave might know whether Olive has children. They're still a prominent tribe with at least two casinos. The Avi Casino has a small Mohave museum. Certainly the elders or tribe historians would know something about Olive Oatman.
I've trucked all of the 48 states & Canada. But most of my family's history is in the Southwest. I picked up a book in LBJ's hometown in Texas yrs ago called, I think, The Boy Captives. It was self published and still for sale last I knew, btw. It was about 2 brothers who were captured by Geronimo's band in the 1850's in the Hill Country east of San Antonio. They got split up, and the father never stopped looking for them. Eventually they were recovered, but it was a difficult transition especially for the younger one. The older one authored the book encouraged by his children in the very early 20th Century. Contrary to today's popular belief, these "indians" weren't very honorable, feigning poverty to the whites for free food, stealing captives to sell to the Mexicans when they weren't fighting with them. So the notion that young females taken captive as slaves would never be sexually abused is a naive and tender notion indeed. Maybe I missed it here, but the Mojave traded for the girls after seeing how badly they were being treated, and in effect rescued them. The younger one dying of famine at age maybe 10-ish. There must be many more similar stories that we'll perhaps never hear about, no doubt equally harrowing and scary. Thank you for this rendition!
Well done Mr. Bell. I listen imagining that we are sitting at the kitchen table going over maps and old photos as you share these talks. You might do one about Texas Ranger Frank Hamer and the trail he cut as a lawman.
i grew up in yuma in the 70s through 2,000 (i'm on the east coast now). my moms family has been there since the early 1900s. it's always nice to learn little known history of my hometown.
Bob, Thanks so much! Love your story telling. You need to get in touch with Kevin Costner and collaborate. He would LOVE to talk with you, and appreciate your Historical knowledge. Can’t wait for the next one!
My cousins, in upstate New York come from the Oatman family on their mother’s side. Interesting that Olive spent time there. I need to ask some questions.
Just watched the ‘Hell on Wheels’ series. Fiction, but while covering the construction of the transcontinental railroad, included many historical situations. One of the main characters was a formerly kidnapped woman who was tattooed in this way. You later find out she was from a mormon family. Probably why this showed up in my feed.
I'm not surprised that she may have left children behind. She might not have had a choice about it. Supposedly the tribe was being threatened if they didn't release her. She was white but her children were half bloods and maybe the father didn't want to give them up. We've seen similar situations in the Jones Town cult and the Waco cult where the mothers wanted to get away so badly they left without their children. I don't find it hard to believe that Olive may have as well.
Jonestown cult they took their kids and hid them away, because of the remoteness the only thing they could do was lie to the cult then when they were on leave, stay away, that place was insane. I've seen all the footage, documentaries, and aftermath vids, and interviews, even the twenty and 40 years after the tragedy vids, the audio recordings of Jim out of his mind on drugs, and thinking he is a god, makes you wonder about how ppl can get caught up in it. No wonder so many hate religion now, it's not just that evil has taken over all facets of life, but power corrupts all, and when ppl preach they sometimes feel like they have the keys to the kingdom.
That's a great story, do you know what happened to her brother, how he survived getting hit on the head is a miracle, bet he had issues from that later on
He crawled around for a few days, was found by some “friendly Indians”, hooked up with some of his original wagon train party, made it to San Francisco, then started in on finding his surviving sister(s).
Such a well done story. As always. Thank You for sharing. This is why Ive been a reader of True West for 5 decades now. And it only gets better under your leadership.
I was born and raised in Needles California in the heart of Mojave Indian tribal territory. About 20 miles from oatman AZ. This is a story told around town very famous story around here
I have visited the location east of Yuma and north of I-10 where the Oatman masssacre took place several times. They had unloaded their wagon, so the oxen could pull the wagon up the bluff, carried it’s content up the bluff by hand and reloaded the wagon. It is there and then that they saw off in the distance the Yavapai coming. According to Olive Oatman, she was never raped or sexually abused.
I agree, she had no reason to lie about having children. 🔺There's no question the US Gov did a fully ignorant job from the start and throughout the time of the Indo-European migration to the USA. Absolutely ridiculous was the repetitive actions of our forefathers. That in mind, I am not familiar with the Native Peoples that took these girls, however, what was behind their actions? The fact is, the stories about the native peoples History from 1776 to 1976 is 99% is fully from a White Writer's perspective plus various political propagandas. I would be most interested in the facts of these 200 years and this particular situation, in what the habits and practices of these native peoples were, and why they sought to act in such a Sociopathic manner towards this family. As to Olive, no one has any idea nor right to judge her for any situations that she incurred or decisions she made. Her later works and the book, speaking engagements, were clearly opportunities to make a living, as the judgement attitudes of the majority saw to it that she would never have an opportunity to live her desired life. DNA could potentially validate the subject. She had no reason to lie about having a child. The statement of "a grieving unsatisfied woman who had no faith 8n the civilization of man" is far more the obvious accurate truth for Olive, and ⭐ it is the most accurate statement describing the greater US Government and its Public, for a consistent few reasons, then and through today: Namely the Public, naively, being in their Lower Mind, acting in and with, Judgemental assuming and accusing, etc. This is why they are so easily brought to support whatever the New Mexia presents, easily manipulated and controlled by the few whom own the tools of power, information and Money. They know no better and are constantly manipulating for the profits and power. Beth Bartlett Sociologist/Behavioralist and Historian
Correct. My grandmother, who was born in 1897, was petting my dog one time and said casually "it looked like your dog needed some love making". Since she was just scratching her ears, obviously it wasn't sexual"!
First time viewer here. I want to enjoy your videos but, when it comes to historical accuracy, I want to be sure that I can trust the content but there's a problem at 3:14 Language changes over time. When you were so very specific about "quoting" Susan Thompson's speaking of "love making" you seemed to be implying that she was referring to promiscuity and that is very unlikely to be true. When the term love making was used all those years ago, it was to mean delicate flirting--something as simple as a young man offering a flower to the girl he admired or perhaps helping her down from the seat on the wagon. That was the courtesy of love making. The term means something rather more graphic today; back then it was innocent. When you offered quotes on it, that seemed to indicate that you were saying that the modern term was in use, and it cannot have been. I will be watching the remainder of the video with rather more caution.
Ahhhh !! I came here to say as much.. 'Love making' did indeed have a innocent meaning, any well-read person would kown that. Even into the 50s - there are lines in films ....'Are you trying to make love to me' would be a question meaning are you flirting with me...
No no no. You don’t understand how many criminals and prostitution and all kinds of other crap that were going on as well as promiscuity, yes that was a thing, and “love making” did not ONLY mean something innocent at all it never has so to say “back then that’s what it meant” is just a romanticized thought you’ve conjured up.
@@joshbearden1636 My education and my own research have taught me what words and phrases once meant. It was an area of specialization that I enjoyed learning about. I am romanticizing nothing, nor am I conjuring. I do know about the wrongs that were committed in the past, and I am conscious of the fact that not all of life was defined by the "crap" of which you speak. There was good in the past, not only evil. People used quite innocent language sometimes, and this phrase was one of those. So, no, I am not wrong.
@@zzydny you’re not wrong about the use of the word “ love making” being more formal and used more often but to say that it ONLY meant innocent love making you’re completely incorrect.
Has anyone else noticed that in photographs of "Anglos" who were captured and lived years among the natives actually end up looking native themselves? Or maybe that's just me.
If she was raped and beaten by multiple men she may not ĥave been able to have anymore children after those two. If she had tried to go back can imaging how she would have been treated ??
How selfish do you have to be to drag an eight and a half month pregnant woman across a hostile desert full of dangerous native tribes, while in a covered wagon.
There are streets and communities named after the Oatman's in Yuma, AZ. The little sister, Mary, was sickly to begin with and did not survive captivity with the Mohave indians. Differing accounts of Mary's fate include this and death due to a tribal famine that struck the Mohaves.
one little thing....the guy looking for beetles didn't go 40 miles south of Yuma to the Gulf of Mexico......you're confusing it with the Gulf of California....lol
danged interesting video, but then near all the ones i've watched are., just one question, not regarding the video.....where in the blazes do you get your shirts. been looking for those for the longest time without finding. thanks for all the great vids and books.
Interesting that in a series called the Ghost Inside my Child on the internet,actual testimonials from children in the west remembering their past lives and beyond,1 episode features a child named Olivia who claimed to have been Olive Oatman in her past life.
Olivia didn't like to have her chin touched and had a terrible separation issue with her mother. All trauma of her past life as Olive Oatman. She said she used to play the guitar, as did Oatman. Olivia recognized her own picture of Oatman with her tattoo, and said, "That's me." Love that series.
Thank you. Your story was very interesting. I have read about Olive Oatman in a western magazine. I used to buy 2 . Didn't know all the details until now.
Her name meant rotten womb… maybe not in the sense of being with multiple people but maybe in the sense of still birth or infertility…😢 we will never know. Poor girl lost her family and lost her family to find a daughter and lose her… life is hard
![[#2024MAMA] ROSÉ (로제), Bruno Mars - APT. | Mnet 241122 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dgGqD28J6aQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I am 63 yr old, a native Texan. I am an avid history fan and until now, I have sadly disdained all of Western history of the US except the story of Lewis and Clark. But recently I am exploring the bizarre excursions of those who chose to venture west. Your channel is marvelous!!! Thanks for this video. Side note: Maybe those dreadful western movies of the 70's were the reason!! lol
Great story, I lived in Bullhead City years ago and visited the place where she was kept in Oatman. I used to work at one of the casinos, great people out there, thanks for your wonderful accounts of her life. I was told she wanted to return and told her brother so.
i was in bullhead from 88 to 89. i worked the arizona side, it was a great time in my life i had a lot of fun.
Needles California born and raised
I love to listen to oral history. Absolutely the right way ti tell the stories.
What an journey for her 🫣. Thank you for sharing this part of history with us 👵🏻👩🌾❣️
I know from experience that having a parent die of violent crime takes years to overcome. I can't imagine having to witness it.
I have no doubt this child was raped, and I'm sure she submitted to it. What else could she do? This, plus traumatized by witnessing the murder of her family, the trauma of having to walk all that way, being beaten, the culture shock; she would have had such severe PTSD that only someone who had experienced the same could understand. I'm sure the Mohaves were a welcome relief for her, and she didn't want to leave the bit of safety she had found, and clung to it. Whether she wanted to go, or not, is irrelevant. I don't think she could have made an objective choice given her mental state. All one has to do is look at her photos and see the sadness in her eyes. I pray God rests this poor woman's soul.
💯
Thank you for a beautifully heartfelt comment.
You have very open and welcoming personality. It's easy to imagine spending an evening listening to you with a small group of friends.
Bob, your stories never fail to amaze me! Back at you with an "Amen!" 😎✌️
This was a great vid! Lots of details I never knew. I lived in the town of Oatman, Az in the 90s, and only heard the story in very broad strokes. You managed to really capture the human side of the characters I only knew as names. Thanks, good sir!
Thank you for sharing this.
This story always gets me thinking about what they went through. The girls, the family
What a tale! Thank you again, Bob, for bringing these wonderful stories to us.
Great job, Robert! The story has always been shrouded in ambiguity, and you have as always done more homework to find the truth.
I believe she felt like a woman not completely belonging in either world. She lost her family and then her family. I believe she mourned her entire life.
That how I see it. Love of both worlds but not feeling complete home in either.
Well put
In the 1800's lovemaking didn't mean sexual behavior and when people used to say, "stop molesting me" it just meant, "stop pestering me"
Ha ok
What did “lovemaking” mean in the 1800’s? How do you know it didn’t mean sexual behavior? Where do you find the meaning of these phrases?
@@JenaEmeraldsame question here
@@JenaEmerald I know what it means because I've vheard my family members use it. The term was also used in the old movies back in the 1940's. It means showing favor and affection, being attentive and responsive to your partner. It has come to mean out and out sex but originally emotion and care was the first meaning. You can hear actors in old movies used the term. My dad would use it when two people were just walking, holding hands and enraptured with each other. That was, "making love".
@@thinkinoutloud.1 thanks for the explanation. I’ve never heard it used that way. It does remind me of something similar that sounded shocking. CS Lewis wrote in one of The Chronicle’s of Narnia that one of the characters grew up to be a beautiful queen and have many lovers. I thought it was strange to say. Do you think this is along the same lines? Would “Lover” mean a person you love in general rather than the current meaning?
I enjoyed listening to this story very much. This should definitely be made into a movie.
❤ no matter how I struggle and strive I'll never get out of this world alive❤
Unless the lord returns bf I die!!
Brilliant story! THANK YOU, Sir!❤
I worked on the Mojave Reservation framing houses in the late 70's and your description of them as huge is correct, they are BIG people, and I'm 6'4"
I was born and raised in needles. Absolute massive people
@@richardrhodes4701 We always commented that they had large heads. I remember that they way they would acknowledge each other when driving would be to take both hands off the wheel like a wave. I liked them we were invited to a couple parties on the res when I was there.
Excellent as always! Your like a niegbor telling his vacation travels. Very down to earth.
I think poor Olive must have had PTSD and Stockholm Syndrome.
💯
I was thinking the same thing.
Just keep doing what you're doing Mr ,I don't know how I ever survived without you I found you a couple years ago and I've never left
That Scripture found in the Book of Jeremiah refers to the Jews returning to Israel... Has nothing to do with Arizona. Tucson is directly under or atop Jerusalem...
Fantastic artwork to go along with great storytelling which makes this video very entertaining. Thanks Bob
Thanks you, Bob Boze Bell. I've seen all 2,000 of your videos. You're pretty good at this.
Two things:
I'm surprised you didn't mention that Olive's sister died in captivity.
Also, Nobody asked Olive what she wanted to do. I don't think she wanted to be "rescued".
Thanks for clearing that up, was going to ask what about the sister.
@@consul6262 there was a period of famine in the Indian village, the younger sister died of starvation- or so I read.
If only we had an account from Olive!
I have read that after being kidnapped, having a family, etc. She did not want to be rescued. That she wanted to stay. She had assimilated to life..
Hi Bob! I grew up in Kingman, Arizona, too, from 1967 when I was four until I left at 19 and moved to Lake Havasu, and back to Tempe from 1989 to 2001. I'm in Reno now. It's nice to hear from a familiar name. 😊 Olive Oatman's story has always fascinated me! It was interesting to hear your take on her. Cheers! Julie Hodges
I've read several pieces about Ms. Oatman but this adds some things I have not heard before. It is my understanding that both she and her sister and members of the tribe she was living with went through an extended period of near starvation and finally starvation took the life of her sister. If she had children, I would question if they could have survived that period of starvation. I also wonder if she could have had the strength and where with all to even give birth. She was in "captivity" for five years from the age of thirteen. Olive reported that while in the hands of the Mohave she was properly treated. I would say she would have been sexually active naturally or by force. It is not something I would judge her on. If she lost a child(s), it would have been another burden to carry all of the remainder of her life. She reportedly could not have children but did adopt a child she later lost. As to the tattoo's, my understanding is that Mohave tattoos were meant as identification for when they entered the afterlife. Olive gave differing reports on their meaning. I believe Olive survived in spite of the most difficult circumstances possible. I respect her for that and the life she lived after she returned to the white culture. The place where she was taken is still today a brutal area. There is no greenery, little vegetation and filled with rocks. To take that large family along the path they later chose was insanity.
They didn't know.
The Oatmans were first cousins of my family back then. Incredible story.
Wow!!! ❤
We are kin to the Oatmans in Texas, my Great grandmother was Mary Oatman buried with some of my Texas Rangers in Camp Verde, Texas. Military camp
Wow, what a fantastic way to tie all those amazing stories in together. I think as far as the entomologist is concerned any first people that saw him would've had a big laugh, thought him absolutely nuts and he would have no idea he had been seen.
Thank you for sharing this story. But I don't believe you mentioned what happened to her sister that was also taken by the Indians. I believe she died in captivity? Do you know the details of her death? Thanks!
She, Mary Ann, starved to death at age 11 during a period of harsh drought. Several Mojaves died also.
I was wondering about the sister too.
Died of starvation
First time listening. LOVE your channel. Love hearing a real voice. Any video with an AI voice I wont listen.
My 5th great grandmother. Jenny Wiley was kidnapped by a band of natives from different tribes. First they bludgeoned her little brother and 4 children to death then scalped them all right before her eyes. Then they kidnapped her along with her baby. She was forced to work as a slave until she escaped. Also they killed her smallest by grabbing his feet and swinging him against a tree until his head was smashed all over the tree. This is a matter of history, and there are records of it.
it shows that the native americans weren't all love and light honouring the great spirit in all. Even native americans succumb to their lowest human natures. Not the most pure human specimens.
😢. Very very horrible. Good and bad in every tribe and nation, when the follow the evil way. Follow the Father, and worship Him.🙏🏽🙏🏿🙏🏼
Horrific 😢
@@selenem3384 it was a case of mistaken identity. They had come to avenge the death of one of the cheif's sons and they came to the wrong farm.
We did unspeakable things, they did unspeakable things- thus the term ‘savage’ comes from. We fought back and forth for 400 years and they were serious warriors and I say that loosely as many different people came into this region to fight at different times and they were often fighting each other (different tribes)- in the end, ‘we’ ended up ‘winning’ per say just because of things like weaponry etc. But to say Native Americans were victims that were walking around peacefully picking daisies and kissing Buffalo on the lips is completely wrong.
Thank you for sharing this story.
Great history lesson! Today’s DNA test could determine if any Mojave’s and Oatman’s shared biology. Perhaps Olive’s brother had family and they could provide the DNA sample.
Native American DNA is very hard to understand even today. I'm from the Paiute Tribe of Northern Nevada and come from a full Paiute mother and my dad is 3/4 Paiute. My ancestors were from Paiute and Shoshone tribes. My brother and I show DNA from China, Japan, Vietnam and then up South America including Peru, Columbia and Mexican. They haven't come up with a true DNA test for Native Americans yet bit I'll be waiting if it happens in my lifetime. The 1/4 of my father's Caucasian blood was easier to decipher showing German and Scottish lines. May this family find healing in this life and beyond.
So intriguing! Thank you for sharing this research. Much food for thought.😊🙏👍
@@tdemartini7357What test did you take. How can a test decipher “Mexican” DNA? My 23/me shows American Indigenous with Iberian. If there was no US border, it makes no sense how “Mexican” can be identified as its own category.
there is a program entitled " the ghost inside my child " on the lmn network. in one of the segments it was thought that a little girl who had nightmares of that era in history was the reincarnation of olive oatman. fascinating
I like the way you tell stories.
Seems that Culture Shock was the overriding theme of Olive Oatman's life. She endured more than most women today could deal with and not be forever changed/scarred by the experience.
Sigh….she was a young girl - not “sexually active” but traumatized, degraded and raped. The whole thing was tragic
That statement is cut and dry by todays standards, agreed!
I imagine she had it better than modern day trafficked humans.
She lived.
@@LizSans-x7lyou mean "cut and dried" and your epistemology is faulty
@@ericvantassell6809 i think your epistemology is faulty, based on your actually inability to distinquish between belief and opinion. Whatever happened to her it would have been nowhere near as savage, inhuman or traumatic as what the whites did to the native american and blacks they kept as slaves.
@@LizSans-x7lNot true; sometimes the living is harder.
Shame on you for making light of her suffering.
I don’t believe she was raped and I don’t believe she wanted to be brought back
Great story! You always have the little tid bits that are the cherry on the sundae.
It seems to me the modern Mohave might know whether Olive has children. They're still a prominent tribe with at least two casinos. The Avi Casino has a small Mohave museum. Certainly the elders or tribe historians would know something about Olive Oatman.
I've trucked all of the 48 states & Canada. But most of my family's history is in the Southwest. I picked up a book in LBJ's hometown in Texas yrs ago called, I think, The Boy Captives. It was self published and still for sale last I knew, btw. It was about 2 brothers who were captured by Geronimo's band in the 1850's in the Hill Country east of San Antonio. They got split up, and the father never stopped looking for them. Eventually they were recovered, but it was a difficult transition especially for the younger one. The older one authored the book encouraged by his children in the very early 20th Century. Contrary to today's popular belief, these "indians" weren't very honorable, feigning poverty to the whites for free food, stealing captives to sell to the Mexicans when they weren't fighting with them. So the notion that young females taken captive as slaves would never be sexually abused is a naive and tender notion indeed. Maybe I missed it here, but the Mojave traded for the girls after seeing how badly they were being treated, and in effect rescued them. The younger one dying of famine at age maybe 10-ish. There must be many more similar stories that we'll perhaps never hear about, no doubt equally harrowing and scary. Thank you for this rendition!
Thanks for the story. A fan of your print magazine, True West...see yuh there Bob.
Just finished the book - thanks for adding to the story
Thank you for the interesting details! You’re a great storyteller.
Well done Mr. Bell. I listen imagining that we are sitting at the kitchen table going over maps and old photos as you share these talks. You might do one about Texas Ranger Frank Hamer and the trail he cut as a lawman.
You do realize these people are still considered Illegal on Indigenous Lands right?
-COMANCHE NATION
What a great story and really well told.
I love your stories ❤
i grew up in yuma in the 70s through 2,000 (i'm on the east coast now). my moms family has been there since the early 1900s. it's always nice to learn little known history of my hometown.
Greetings from brussels 👍👍 can’t wait for the next video
Bob, Thanks so much! Love your story telling. You need to get in touch with Kevin Costner and collaborate. He would LOVE to talk with you, and appreciate your Historical knowledge. Can’t wait for the next one!
My cousins, in upstate New York come from the Oatman family on their mother’s side. Interesting that Olive spent time there. I need to ask some questions.
Matilda was The Great Western in McMurtry's tale " Deadmans Walk" she catched snapping turtles.😊
I always enjoy and appreciate your work! You are well I worked and acquainted with western history. Thank you!
I am quite grateful of the depth you’ve given to this story. I’ve heard many versions of it, and yours is by far, my favorite.
Friday morning Bob Boze Bell? Yes!!!
Just watched the ‘Hell on Wheels’ series. Fiction, but while covering the construction of the transcontinental railroad, included many historical situations. One of the main characters was a formerly kidnapped woman who was tattooed in this way. You later find out she was from a mormon family. Probably why this showed up in my feed.
I liked that series
Love Hell on wheels
I don’t believe she wanted to be rescued but I don’t think she wanted to never see her brother again either
So interesting! Really filled in a lot of missing information.
Just found your videos. What a great find. Thank you.
Your video gives a very respectful, honest, and moving portrayal of Olive Oatman and the Mohave people. Thank you.
Loved the story!
What happened to Olive's sister? She had a fascinating and tragic life. Olive was a beautiful woman.
Died while in captivity
Starved to death during a period of drought, other Mojaves died as well during this period.
Sad, but wonderful story. Thanks for sharing :)
I'm not surprised that she may have left children behind. She might not have had a choice about it. Supposedly the tribe was being threatened if they didn't release her. She was white but her children were half bloods and maybe the father didn't want to give them up. We've seen similar situations in the Jones Town cult and the Waco cult where the mothers wanted to get away so badly they left without their children. I don't find it hard to believe that Olive may have as well.
Jonestown cult they took their kids and hid them away, because of the remoteness the only thing they could do was lie to the cult then when they were on leave, stay away, that place was insane. I've seen all the footage, documentaries, and aftermath vids, and interviews, even the twenty and 40 years after the tragedy vids, the audio recordings of Jim out of his mind on drugs, and thinking he is a god, makes you wonder about how ppl can get caught up in it. No wonder so many hate religion now, it's not just that evil has taken over all facets of life, but power corrupts all, and when ppl preach they sometimes feel like they have the keys to the kingdom.
Excellent video Bob, thanks
Very interesting, thank you❤
That's a great story, do you know what happened to her brother, how he survived getting hit on the head is a miracle, bet he had issues from that later on
He crawled around for a few days, was found by some “friendly Indians”, hooked up with some of his original wagon train party, made it to San Francisco, then started in on finding his surviving sister(s).
Such a well done story. As always. Thank You for sharing. This is why Ive been a reader of True West for 5 decades now. And it only gets better under your leadership.
I was born and raised in Needles California in the heart of Mojave Indian tribal territory. About 20 miles from oatman AZ. This is a story told around town very famous story around here
The question whether or not Olive was sexually active or had children is incomplete. Did she have a choice in any of this?
It's a horrible Heartbreaking story 💔
Have you ever done a video on Frances Slocum?
I have visited the location east of Yuma and north of I-10 where the Oatman masssacre took place several times. They had unloaded their wagon, so the oxen could pull the wagon up the bluff, carried it’s content up the bluff by hand and reloaded the wagon. It is there and then that they saw off in the distance the Yavapai coming. According to Olive Oatman, she was never raped or sexually abused.
Great presentation...Cheers!
I agree, she had no reason to lie about having children.
🔺There's no question the US Gov did a fully ignorant job from the start and throughout the time of the Indo-European migration to the USA.
Absolutely ridiculous was the repetitive actions of our forefathers.
That in mind, I am not familiar with the Native Peoples that took these girls, however, what was behind their actions? The fact is, the stories about the native peoples History from 1776 to 1976 is 99% is fully from a White Writer's perspective plus various political propagandas.
I would be most interested in the facts of these 200 years and this particular situation, in what the habits and practices of these native peoples were, and why they sought to act in such a Sociopathic manner towards this family.
As to Olive, no one has any idea nor right to judge her for any situations that she incurred or decisions she made.
Her later works and the book, speaking engagements, were clearly opportunities to make a living, as the judgement attitudes of the majority saw to it that she would never have an opportunity to live her desired life.
DNA could potentially validate the subject.
She had no reason to lie about having a child.
The statement of "a grieving unsatisfied woman who had no faith 8n the civilization of man" is far more the obvious accurate truth for Olive, and ⭐ it is the most accurate statement describing the greater US Government and its Public, for a consistent few reasons, then and through today:
Namely the Public, naively, being in their Lower Mind, acting in and with, Judgemental assuming and accusing, etc.
This is why they are so easily brought to support whatever the New Mexia presents, easily manipulated and controlled by the few whom own the tools of power, information and Money.
They know no better and are constantly manipulating for the profits and power.
Beth Bartlett
Sociologist/Behavioralist
and Historian
“Love making” had a different definition than it does today. Back “love making” meant courting.
Correct. My grandmother, who was born in 1897, was petting my dog one time and said casually "it looked like your dog needed some love making". Since she was just scratching her ears, obviously it wasn't sexual"!
I may have missed something here. What happened to her sister ? Did no one try to save her ?
Awesome video!👍
What happened to her seven year old sister??? Thank You for this story.
Died of famine in 1885
Love the ❤ show.Greetings from Presidio County TX
First time viewer here. I want to enjoy your videos but, when it comes to historical accuracy, I want to be sure that I can trust the content but there's a problem at 3:14 Language changes over time. When you were so very specific about "quoting" Susan Thompson's speaking of "love making" you seemed to be implying that she was referring to promiscuity and that is very unlikely to be true. When the term love making was used all those years ago, it was to mean delicate flirting--something as simple as a young man offering a flower to the girl he admired or perhaps helping her down from the seat on the wagon. That was the courtesy of love making. The term means something rather more graphic today; back then it was innocent. When you offered quotes on it, that seemed to indicate that you were saying that the modern term was in use, and it cannot have been. I will be watching the remainder of the video with rather more caution.
Ahhhh !! I came here to say as much..
'Love making' did indeed have a innocent meaning, any well-read person would kown that.
Even into the 50s - there are lines in films ....'Are you trying to make love to me' would be a question meaning are you flirting with me...
No no no. You don’t understand how many criminals and prostitution and all kinds of other crap that were going on as well as promiscuity, yes that was a thing, and “love making” did not ONLY mean something innocent at all it never has so to say “back then that’s what it meant” is just a romanticized thought you’ve conjured up.
@@joshbearden1636 My education and my own research have taught me what words and phrases once meant. It was an area of specialization that I enjoyed learning about. I am romanticizing nothing, nor am I conjuring. I do know about the wrongs that were committed in the past, and I am conscious of the fact that not all of life was defined by the "crap" of which you speak. There was good in the past, not only evil. People used quite innocent language sometimes, and this phrase was one of those. So, no, I am not wrong.
@@zzydny you’re not wrong about the use of the word “ love making” being more formal and used more often but to say that it ONLY meant innocent love making you’re completely incorrect.
Has anyone else noticed that in photographs of "Anglos" who were captured and lived years among the natives actually end up looking native themselves? Or maybe that's just me.
If she was raped and beaten by multiple men she may not ĥave been able to have anymore children after those two. If she had tried to go back can imaging how she would have been treated ??
My thoughts exactly
Her Native name meant "rotten womb". Could mean she could not conceive.
Sad story but well worth listening to
Judging by the comments here, you are going to have to do another video on what happened to her sister.
A tragic tale indeed !
How selfish do you have to be to drag an eight and a half month pregnant woman across a hostile desert full of dangerous native tribes, while in a covered wagon.
Very interesting stuff
Loved your story. What happened to her sister???
She died of starvation. There was a famine in the Mojave tribe.
There are streets and communities named after the Oatman's in Yuma, AZ. The little sister, Mary, was sickly to begin with and did not survive captivity with the Mohave indians. Differing accounts of Mary's fate include this and death due to a tribal famine that struck the Mohaves.
I want to know if the entomologist named "Big Bug Creek"
He is not, but wouldn't that just be ducky?
one little thing....the guy looking for beetles didn't go 40 miles south of Yuma to the Gulf of Mexico......you're confusing it with the Gulf of California....lol
danged interesting video, but then near all the ones i've watched are., just one question, not regarding the video.....where in the blazes do you get your shirts. been looking for those for the longest time without finding. thanks for all the great vids and books.
@ approx 8:48 in this video you said "If I saw the movie?" was there a movie made on this story? Thank you for this history
Yuma Territorial Prison was no paradise and it is that country they were heading to.😊That country where the females were taken to is double tuff.
Yuma is one..hot…city.😮
You mean the Missing and Murdered Indigenous PEOPLE?
Murdered by local Sheriff's departments?
-COMANCHE NATION
Interesting that in a series called the Ghost Inside my Child on the internet,actual testimonials from children in the west remembering their past lives and beyond,1 episode features a child named Olivia who claimed to have been Olive Oatman in her past life.
Olivia didn't like to have her chin touched and had a terrible separation issue with her mother. All trauma of her past life as Olive Oatman. She said she used to play the guitar, as did Oatman. Olivia recognized her own picture of Oatman with her tattoo, and said, "That's me." Love that series.
@@Zuxiasunicorn 👍
Fascinating
So much for Mormon prophesy
Your awesome and awesome video be safe out there
Thank you. Your story was very interesting. I have read about Olive Oatman in a western magazine. I used to buy 2 . Didn't know all the details until now.
People do try to integrate to fit in, as in "as in Rome ..."
Her name meant rotten womb… maybe not in the sense of being with multiple people but maybe in the sense of still birth or infertility…😢 we will never know. Poor girl lost her family and lost her family to find a daughter and lose her… life is hard
Yuma? "Most God forsaken place on earth"? As a life-long 79 year old Arizona dweller I don't see a lot of change from that.🤣
Could you do a documentary about Bass Reeves sometime?
There's a TV show now
Well somehow I missed this one. 4 months later😊