Ken, Thanks so much in taking the time to share this with us amateur Luthiers. You are a true craftsman and build beautiful guitars! I have built 6 guitars in the past 20 years and have previously used a Waterborne topcoat finish. I am working on a 000 acoustic guitar I started several years ago before CANCER slowed me down and am now just returning to finish it in my shop now that my cancer is under control. I've done a few test applications and love the West Systems Epoxy and your method of high sanding pre-finish and then wiping it on and wipe it off. My only issue is during my Tru Oil application it was taking 12-24 hours to dry between coats and recall you saying you were getting 3x per day. I've since watched this video again and see that you are wiping the Tru Oil off with a dry cloth which am sure this helps the thinner coat dry faster. I failed to do this on my first 6 coats and was wiping it smooth but only with my wet pad so now know where I went wrong. Q? I have seen a few luthier's thin the TO with Naptha like a 6:1 ratio which thins it down to flow and lay down better and also promotes faster drying. What are your thoughts on this? Another Question... Do you use a buffer (don't recall you mentioning this) after the finish has hardened and cured? I'm going to start another test in a minute and will wipe off the excess like you do here and am sure that will help me out. Thanks again and really appreciate your work and sharing your secrets. Rick
Hi Rick, Glad you're back at it, and here's every good wish for your health and lutherie happiness! The TruOil only works properly when it's fresh. I buy the 3 oz. bottles, keep 'em in the fridge, and disqualify it when it starts to thicken. This is crucial, as the thickened TO won't dry properly, and will make you sad. The only trick, if there is one, is to treat every coat as if it will be the last coat, and needs to look perfect, without any smear or trace of extra oil anywhere. I have heard of folks thinning it, as you mention, but I'm not the slightest bit tempted to fool with the best finish I've ever used! When it's fresh, it doesn't need thinning, and when it's not fresh, reserve it for your porch railings or something like that. Use fresh oil, change cloth or paper towels often, and wipe diligently in good light to remove EVERY EXTRA molecule at every coat, and you're a hero. It doesn't get much simpler than this! The finish gives good protection, doesn't mute the instrument, is repairable, and looks fabulous! The crowning beauty of the finish is that, properly applied, no sanding or buffing is needed. Wiping perfectly is the key to success!
Ken, this really is a master class in finishing by a real master of his craft - and you make it appear to be easier to get such a wonderful finish without the hassle of spraying. I'll carefully watch it all again and then have a go to see if it really is as straightforward as you make it look. This really has become far and away the best luthiery channel on RUclips - thank you. Your comment about 'foolproof' took me back to my early days at engineering college. Back in the day, Herbert Morris used to make a 'Special Student Lathe' they claimed was designed to be foolproof. Whilst having a chat to a pal, one of our students unfortunately missed that his tool post was heading right into the jaws of the chuck... which ended with a giant clang and the saddle casting cracked in half. In response to a letter from Herbert Morris' technical department implying that 'it could not happen because our Student Lathe is foolproof', our college principle responded with 'you clearly have no experience of the sort of bloody fools we have here!' One of life's useful lessons that ultimately taught me to never say: foolproof, unbreakable or expert (ex is a has been and a spurt is a drip under pressure).
Uh Oh, did I really say foolproof? Might have been running a low grade fever, OK, so I have no excuse. You're absolutely correct, there's no such thing. I made piles of machinery, fixtures, and all kinds of special tooling for the Fly Guitar project, and was continually amazed at how hard it is to train people, even when they're sober, paying attention, and trying to do a good job. Can't IMAGINE what I was thinking. Perhaps you can call out a time stamp, and I'll overlay a disclaimer, in order to plead temporary insanity?? The finish I describe, and like so much, like any finish, takes skill and practice to master. I have had the experience of explaining the process to other builders, only to later find out that they had disasters as a result of shortcuts, or whatever stray path they took. As ever, it's best to test any new finish on a piece of scrap from the build that has been brought to the same surface condition (perfectly Smooth and Pretty) as the ready-to-finish guitar. I guess what I was trying to say was that, after using this finish for 15 years, I'm just as thrilled with it's attributes and advantages as I was when I married her. Wow, the idea of a foolproof lathe, that's Really Deep. Thanks for your praise, I'm a-tryin' to make the world a better place in the only way I know how.
@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 To be fair Ken, what you said was something like: 'well, I can't say foolproof... but it is straight forward if you do it carefully'. Having used epoxy quite a bit in industry, I'm well aware of the problems of working with even the extended cure types but was mightily impressed how good your paper rub off technique made it work as a micro thin wood sealer. When I do try it out for myself, I envisage a good few scrap-wood trials thrown to the back of the workshop before achieving anything presentable. I've already tried the equivalent CA glue wood finishing technique and found more of me stuck to the wood than CA stuck to the wood! The Herbert Student lathe was intentionally built like a truck but as we all know... don't let your kid drive the truck... Once again, thank you so much for sharing your brilliant skills and making this currently troubled world a better place.
Mr. Parker. I would love to know how you treat the sides you've bent for finish. In your first posted videos you showed how you epoxy linen to the difficult parts. Then you take that linen off with heat. But how does the leftover epoxy in those areas affect finish? Do you sand it all off first? How deep does it go into the wood? Again, thanks for all the videos!
Can you look through my replies? I'm new here, and am still trying to figure out how to get the information out. These questions are good ones, and have been addressed in other replies. Help!
I know it looks wrong to wipe it all away, but turns out it isn't... The goal is to apply the topcoat perfectly so that the final surface results from the application method, and not from sanding with a million grit and then power buffing. 20 coats applied as shown will build to a finish thickness of about .0005", or 0.013mm. You can get 3 coats on / day if you start early, and BE SURE to use fresh Tru-Oil. Only fresh oil will handle and cure properly, fortunately, it's available in small containers for cheap. This linseed oil film looks fantastic, repels water quite well, and is easy to repair. A Triumph. The only "trick", if there is one, is that you must wipe off All the oil after every coat, so that it always looks perfect when you set it aside to dry, or you'll be fooling around with million grit sandpaper before you know it. If you do make a mess, just let it dry overnight and sand it very carefully, then try not to do it again. Sometimes 0000 steel wool is helpful here, or use the Norton or Carborundum1200 - 1500 grit sanding sponges.
beautiful finish, I have learnt a lot from this video series, thanks for sharing this knowledge!
My pleasure!
Ken, Thanks so much in taking the time to share this with us amateur Luthiers. You are a true craftsman and build beautiful guitars! I have built 6 guitars in the past 20 years and have previously used a Waterborne topcoat finish. I am working on a 000 acoustic guitar I started several years ago before CANCER slowed me down and am now just returning to finish it in my shop now that my cancer is under control. I've done a few test applications and love the West Systems Epoxy and your method of high sanding pre-finish and then wiping it on and wipe it off. My only issue is during my Tru Oil application it was taking 12-24 hours to dry between coats and recall you saying you were getting 3x per day. I've since watched this video again and see that you are wiping the Tru Oil off with a dry cloth which am sure this helps the thinner coat dry faster. I failed to do this on my first 6 coats and was wiping it smooth but only with my wet pad so now know where I went wrong. Q? I have seen a few luthier's thin the TO with Naptha like a 6:1 ratio which thins it down to flow and lay down better and also promotes faster drying. What are your thoughts on this? Another Question... Do you use a buffer (don't recall you mentioning this) after the finish has hardened and cured?
I'm going to start another test in a minute and will wipe off the excess like you do here and am sure that will help me out. Thanks again and really appreciate your work and sharing your secrets. Rick
Hi Rick,
Glad you're back at it, and here's every good wish for your health and lutherie happiness!
The TruOil only works properly when it's fresh. I buy the 3 oz. bottles, keep 'em in the fridge, and disqualify it when it starts to thicken. This is crucial, as the thickened TO won't dry properly, and will make you sad.
The only trick, if there is one, is to treat every coat as if it will be the last coat, and needs to look perfect, without any smear or trace of extra oil anywhere.
I have heard of folks thinning it, as you mention, but I'm not the slightest bit tempted to fool with the best finish I've ever used! When it's fresh, it doesn't need thinning, and when it's not fresh, reserve it for your porch railings or something like that.
Use fresh oil, change cloth or paper towels often, and wipe diligently in good light to remove EVERY EXTRA molecule at every coat, and you're a hero. It doesn't get much simpler than this! The finish gives good protection, doesn't mute the instrument, is repairable, and looks fabulous!
The crowning beauty of the finish is that, properly applied, no sanding or buffing is needed.
Wiping perfectly is the key to success!
Ken, this really is a master class in finishing by a real master of his craft - and you make it appear to be easier to get such a wonderful finish without the hassle of spraying. I'll carefully watch it all again and then have a go to see if it really is as straightforward as you make it look. This really has become far and away the best luthiery channel on RUclips - thank you.
Your comment about 'foolproof' took me back to my early days at engineering college. Back in the day, Herbert Morris used to make a 'Special Student Lathe' they claimed was designed to be foolproof. Whilst having a chat to a pal, one of our students unfortunately missed that his tool post was heading right into the jaws of the chuck... which ended with a giant clang and the saddle casting cracked in half. In response to a letter from Herbert Morris' technical department implying that 'it could not happen because our Student Lathe is foolproof', our college principle responded with 'you clearly have no experience of the sort of bloody fools we have here!'
One of life's useful lessons that ultimately taught me to never say: foolproof, unbreakable or expert (ex is a has been and a spurt is a drip under pressure).
Uh Oh, did I really say foolproof? Might have been running a low grade fever, OK, so I have no excuse.
You're absolutely correct, there's no such thing. I made piles of machinery, fixtures, and all kinds of special tooling for the Fly Guitar project, and was continually amazed at how hard it is to train people, even when they're sober, paying attention, and trying to do a good job. Can't IMAGINE what I was thinking. Perhaps you can call out a time stamp, and I'll overlay a disclaimer, in order to plead temporary insanity??
The finish I describe, and like so much, like any finish, takes skill and practice to master. I have had the experience of explaining the process to other builders, only to later find out that they had disasters as a result of shortcuts, or whatever stray path they took. As ever, it's best to test any new finish on a piece of scrap from the build that has been brought to the same surface condition (perfectly Smooth and Pretty) as the ready-to-finish guitar. I guess what I was trying to say was that, after using this finish for 15 years, I'm just as thrilled with it's attributes and advantages as I was when I married her.
Wow, the idea of a foolproof lathe, that's Really Deep.
Thanks for your praise, I'm a-tryin' to make the world a better place in the only way I know how.
@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 To be fair Ken, what you said was something like: 'well, I can't say foolproof... but it is straight forward if you do it carefully'.
Having used epoxy quite a bit in industry, I'm well aware of the problems of working with even the extended cure types but was mightily impressed how good your paper rub off technique made it work as a micro thin wood sealer. When I do try it out for myself, I envisage a good few scrap-wood trials thrown to the back of the workshop before achieving anything presentable. I've already tried the equivalent CA glue wood finishing technique and found more of me stuck to the wood than CA stuck to the wood!
The Herbert Student lathe was intentionally built like a truck but as we all know... don't let your kid drive the truck...
Once again, thank you so much for sharing your brilliant skills and making this currently troubled world a better place.
And I must say, after coveting such beauty, I thought " what would you do with it?" and immediately played my crappy guitar haha, thanks Ken.
It's all about Music! Groove on!
Mr. Parker. I would love to know how you treat the sides you've bent for finish. In your first posted videos you showed how you epoxy linen to the difficult parts. Then you take that linen off with heat. But how does the leftover epoxy in those areas affect finish? Do you sand it all off first? How deep does it go into the wood? Again, thanks for all the videos!
In the side bending videos he mentions that epoxy leftover is not a problem since it's the same epoxy he uses during the finishing process.
Can you look through my replies? I'm new here, and am still trying to figure out how to get the information out. These questions are good ones, and have been addressed in other replies. Help!
@@kenparkerarchtoppery9440 Excellent. Thank you.
@@juliensorosac-luthier4504 Thank you, I missed it.
Genius. Tools and method.
Thanks!
Ok here's where you say what the vise/tool is haha. I jumped the gun
Chestnut is Brazilian or European? Not in the US isnthat right?
I'm told it's Italian, but it has never said a word, so that's a little suspicious, don't you think?
Ken why do you practically wipe all the finish off with the paper towels? It seems like it would take for ever to get a film buildup.
I know it looks wrong to wipe it all away, but turns out it isn't...
The goal is to apply the topcoat perfectly so that the final surface results from the application method, and not from sanding with a million grit and then power buffing.
20 coats applied as shown will build to a finish thickness of about .0005", or 0.013mm.
You can get 3 coats on / day if you start early, and BE SURE to use fresh Tru-Oil.
Only fresh oil will handle and cure properly, fortunately, it's available in small containers for cheap.
This linseed oil film looks fantastic, repels water quite well, and is easy to repair. A Triumph.
The only "trick", if there is one, is that you must wipe off All the oil after every coat, so that it always looks perfect when you set it aside to dry, or you'll be fooling around with million grit sandpaper before you know it.
If you do make a mess, just let it dry overnight and sand it very carefully, then try not to do it again. Sometimes 0000 steel wool is helpful here, or use the Norton or Carborundum1200 - 1500 grit sanding sponges.