Hey folks this was a patreon exclusive that we have now released publicly. Comment below if you agree or disagree with Bret! Support us on Patreon or Ko-Fi: www.patreon.com/contrarians ko-fi.com/thecontrarians
Marco, I am in total agreement with you regarding Hotter Than Hell. That unique production and song structure gives it a shine and grip that has never let me go from the first time I heard it back in the early 80's. As for the Elder, the older I get the more I appreciate it. In fact, it has moved up into my top 5 Kiss records. Great discussion as always gentlemen. Defend the Faith, always!
I first caught this at my siblings place in Holland. I remember putting the stylus on the vinyl and listening to it through their awesome system. The production just blew me away and Aces playing was phenomenal. Got a solid place in my heart.
I just cannot understand the whole “It’s got some good songs” angle. I’m an album guy. I listen to my records from beginning to end always. It either works or it doesn’t work. I love The Elder.
Top 5 Kiss album for me. They played the Oath for a few shows after the cruise too, which was actually cool because Kiss has never been a deep cut band.
I love The Elder. I think the songs are great. Like Marco, my favourite is Hotter Than Hell. It just has something about it. A bit of a dark theme and the songs are amazing.
Must say, The Elder has always been a favorite. A different flavor definitely, but really is good. I was hooked on the album as a whole from the first listen. Perhaps I just like the difference of it....have also stated to the dismay of many Styx fans that Cornerstone is my favorite album of theirs.
The elder is definitely worth a listen! Unmasked is a personal fav of mine; it’s the first kiss album I got the day of release! Asylum is a great non makeup album! Bruce really shines on the album! Gene doesn’t bring much on the album, but trial by fire is my fav track on the album!
The 70s Kiss albums all have 8 or 9 songs I like.The albums from 1980 onward have 6 or 7 I like,with Shade and Monster being the only CDs with less..The Elder is infact loaded with good songs such as Only You,I,Escape,Oath,Dark Light and its got a good,heavy sound.I never understood the criticism by the fans or the band.
I think that the Elder could have been a lot better, a more thought out and detailed storyline would have helped and as well as allowing in more heavy material and involvement from Ace and Eric but it does have some tracks I like.
The Elder is one of my fav Kiss albums, the songwriting is awesome but some of the arrangements might be overblown. To me songs like Under the Rose, Oath, I, Dark Light, Escape, Mr Blackwell are all classics. I think it came out at the wrong time in their discography, where people needed to be reassured about Kiss after their adventures with Pop and Disco, but instead of reassuring them, they went even further away (and with a new line-up). As you mentioned, the cover didn't help (I remember being highly disappointed by the cover) and the feel of a real rock'n'roll band was lost under that new direction. Except for the cover, I don't think The Elder is much different from Destroyer, but the latter came at the right time. Cheers.
23:17 The credits for Dark Light makes me think -- what a freakin band that would have been! Ace Anton Gene and LOU REED on vocals?!?! I love to imagine that they're out there in an alternate universe...
The only three “KISS” albums I just can’t get into are Crazy Nights, Gene Simmons’ solo album and Carnival Of Souls. Three completely different sounds from one another other, but none of them excite me. I would take The Elder and even Peter Criss’ solo above these three.
Hey thanks for uploading these, I've said it before, but I love these kind of episodes because of the strange KISS lore. I'm not really a big fan of the group's work personally, although the history and gossip I find intensely fascinating, like real-life Spinal Tap. Also Phantom of the Paradise is a masterpiece!
lol we recorded this like 2 years ago! Bret and I were doing a Patreon only kiss thing at the time, you might have been on the panel we did not long after this
I dunno. I meet more and more people who love The Elder. And I meet more and more people who dislike The Wall. I'm starting to think it's contrarian to love the Wall and hate The Elder. If that's true then I am a bona-fide true contrarian on both accounts.
I think most of the people who overtly dislike The Wall are actually fans of Pink Floyd, strangely enough. I think they possibly just get sick of hearing it played and/or celebrated compared to the rest of, or most of, the discography. I actually prefer most of their albums over The Wall anyway (still like it quite a lot!), but the disdain I read/hear for it can come across as a bit emotionally reactionary sometimes...
I can’t believe anyone would love the elder. To me it’s nowhere near their 70’s work, it’s okay. The wall I love, the first pink Floyd album i heard. Unbelievable quality of musicianship and songs. And I love most of pink Floyd’s albums too.
I still don't understand that weird comparison with Pink Floyd's "The Wall" and I still keep asking myself who thought up such nonsense. It doesn't even remotely sound like it stylistically or in terms of sound, nor is it progressive or anything else that was fantasized about. If anything, I'd say it leans toward theatrical, pompous Art Rock a'la QUEEN.
@@mikevillain666 I think it’s because it’s Ezrin producing, and may have been the next album he did after the wall?. Can’t see any other reason. The wall is a masterpiece to me.
I like it but then again, I loved everything Kiss released back in the day including both Unmasked and The Elder as different as they were. Even the new sci-fi-ish image I thought was super cool, I had no problem at all with any of it neither music nor look, they always looked good on posters anyway no matter which make-up era it was. The production sound isn't awful but it also could've been better.
I like the Elder album, and weirdly, my wife bloody well likes it. Go figure. Though either Creatures of the Night, Dynasty, Rock and Roll Over or Hotter Than Hell would be my favorite, despite HTH having what really is a very desperate production and mix. Kerner and Wise didn't have a notion what they were doing. Though I can't say I'm also a fan of Bob Ezrin neither for some reason, cant put my finger on it. Even so, the Elder does have a charm to it, and given what Ace says about his part on it. and the stuff that was edited down (Escape from the Island?) I think it could be an album that would benefit form a remix (cut out the fat like Fan Fare etc) and maybe even expanded. Though Id say there's hardy an appetite for that within the Kiss camp. For me it is a 4/5 album
If they had dropped these tracks: Fanfare, Just A Boy, Odyssey, I and left these: Only You, Under The Rose, Dark Light, A World Without Heroes, The Oath, Mr. Blackwell, Escape From The Island and added 3 or 4 better songs they could have composed, it still would have been a concept album, but something that still rocks, though with the occasional ballad, and would not have flopped. Eric Carr was a good composer, and they still had Ace, but Gene and Paul thought they were better than anybody. Gene will admit to fu--ing up, but Paul will blame Bill Aucoin, Gene, Bob Ezrin and Ace for his failure.
Even before "Unmasked" THE ultimate outlier in their catalogue. To this day I still don't understand why Paul and Gene keep talking all that shit about the album, but I - and thankfully many others - don't really care anymore since these two have twisted and rewritten almost the entire KISS story so much over the years to a point where it just seems bizarre. In terms of it's content, everything has been said, e.g. on this channel in another pretty cool feature, so it doesn't need to be repeated. It is clearly an overambitious, highly idiosyncratic piece of work that should be perceived completely detached from the entire catalogue. One which you should get involved with and one that basically dispenses with all common KISS formulars like no other before or since (except for that horrible Grunge album years later). Released at the worst possible time by a band in transition without the necessary chemistry and the creative input that such a project would've desperately needed. However, an impressively ballsy proof on the other hand that KISS were anything but that one-dimensional One Trick Pony they were often portrayed as by many superficial critics. I love the fact that this album exists, even though it could have been so much more under better conditions.
Asylum and Crazy Nights are my two least favorite Kiss albums. As for The Elder, I love about half of it, especially The Oath, Only You and Under The Rose, but think Odyssey is horrible. I think it’s a funny album! I played Escape From The Island on my last radio show. I think the story could have been stronger and some songs seem to have nothing to do with the concept. I think it’s a heavier album than Dynasty and Unmasked.
I agree, I like the fact they took a chance regardless of end result, but if they hate it that much then why did they release it? They could have just started over but no they went ahead and made the album, its only after the fact we hear Paul criticize Gene for the story, and Gene is now saying he hates playing I was made for loving you also after the fact. I think the Elder made a statement about the band and listen to it today,unmasked was way worse than the elder in my opinion.
i grew up in the 80s i think 1980s kiss is the best version of the band the songs especially on lick it up animallize and asylum rock harder than anything they did in the 70s
Outside the classic 70's Kiss, I'm definitely not a fan, but I love this album. It's adventurous and imperfect but it was something new for sure, and it's a real pity that they evolved from this into something more limited and basic, and there they would remain. It would have been so much better if the band had continued to experiment as they started to here, they would have developed into a really interesting hard rock band. Alas, not to be.
I hated it when it first came out. Out of the entire Kiss catalog it was my least favorite until Crazy Nights then Hot In The Shade and Psycho Circus. I listened to it with a different mindset when the remasters came out and then again a couple of years ago for a series that a Kiss RUclipsr was doing and I like it more than originally.
It’s okay, similar standard to unmasked, was a middling period for the band after the brilliant first period to 1979. They would come all the way back to top with the next two albums. Elder has some good songs, and some bizarre orchestral garbage. Haha
The album didn't fail on its own, but rather was an accumulation of hardcore fans disappointment with the band's latest releases. 3 solo albums (Gene's Pauls, and Peter's) that were very remote form KISS, 2 band albums by the same producer that made the worst of the 4 solo releases, and then an overproduced album by a guy who thought he was producing the next "Wall"...+ cocaine + out of control egos + not listening to the guy (Ace) who had the most successful solo album of the 4..... "The Elder" could have been the next "Tommy", but the band did everything wrong from the start, which goes as far as 1978, not the recording of this album. Did I mention the cringeworthy 1978 TV movie? Gene and Paul both admire The Beatles, but they didn't learn from their major flop with "Magical Mystery Tour".
Yes, o heard that hits was basically demos?. Why they would do that I don’t know.. revenge proved that you need good production on an album, heavy and nice on the ears. Hits is not nice on the ears haha.
All The Elder requires is a re-mix. There is a Japanese version of The Elder, which is brilliant. HOW & WHY. The falsetto Paul Stanley parts are removed, as are many of the wind instruments. E.g. I am Just a Boy sounds infinitely better without Paul's horrible falsetto parts. I am NOT criticising Paul's voice. I am criticising the fact falsetto was utilised to make it sound ' more medieval'. KISS should re-release The Elder album as per the Japanese version. Bob Ezrin Completely smashed on the Oakey-dokey. Yes, he'd come off The Wall with Pink Floyd. This blinded Paul & Gene as The Wall was a mega seller that sold well over 10 million copies worldwide. Ace was right. Concept albums were career killers as they were hit and miss. The Who's Tommy and The Wall by Pink Floys are rare mega successes. Even The Stones flopped with Their Satanic Majesties. Its failure frightened Mick Jagger. Jagger & Richards then quickly went back into the studio and came out with the superb Beggars Banquet ! It was Ezrin who came up with the concept album horse sh#t. Gene, at that time, loved the idea as he thought he was Stan Lee jnr and came up with a Z-grade Lord of the Rings concept of a young boy fighting off the evil Mr Blackwell. Ace again . . . was right . . . Complete Crapola ! I purchased The Elder the morning it came out here in Australia 🇦🇺. The ELDER - Minor Hit The Elder tanked in the USA but made the Top 40 in Australia, Italy, and Japan as a very minor hit. The single "I" made it in the Top 20 in Sydney & Melbourne and was on the single charts for six weeks in those cities. The album The Elder went Top 40 on Australian Album charts, and it too had a 5 week National run.
Kiss albums that seriously s#ck Monster Hot in the shade Sonic boom Carnival of souls Psycho circus Crazy nights The elder is a fave , experimental yes n very un kiss. It was too complex 4 kiss fans .
I think monster is great, sonic boom was pretty bad and the songs are really slow. Psycho circus is half good. Carnival of souls is boring, and is it a proper album called the final sessions?, and it does not have carnival of souls on it!. Wierd.
I have the 1997 remastered cd. From the song “Dark Light”forward, is an ok record. Not better or worst than a lot of their post Alive II records. However the first 5 songs are unlistenable garbage.
I cannot pretend this is even close to okay. The Elder is absolutely not a good record. Not an underrated album, nor a grower. It doesn't deserve more respect from the fans either. It needs to be buried in a time capsule without a plaque to show where it's buried. Hotter Than Hell is my favorite 70s Kiss album as well.
Hey folks this was a patreon exclusive that we have now released publicly. Comment below if you agree or disagree with Bret!
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Marco, I am in total agreement with you regarding Hotter Than Hell. That unique production and song structure gives it a shine and grip that has never let me go from the first time I heard it back in the early 80's. As for the Elder, the older I get the more I appreciate it. In fact, it has moved up into my top 5 Kiss records. Great discussion as always gentlemen. Defend the Faith, always!
To me it's middle of the road. I don't hate it or love it. The Oath and I are the two songs I listen to.
I first caught this at my siblings place in Holland. I remember putting the stylus on the vinyl and listening to it through their awesome system. The production just blew me away and Aces playing was phenomenal. Got a solid place in my heart.
The Elder is completely bonkers and I love it!
Love Music from the Elder. This album just adds more to the Kiss legacy,
I just cannot understand the whole “It’s got some good songs” angle. I’m an album guy. I listen to my records from beginning to end always. It either works or it doesn’t work. I love The Elder.
Top 5 Kiss album for me. They played the Oath for a few shows after the cruise too, which was actually cool because Kiss has never been a deep cut band.
I love The Elder. I think the songs are great. Like Marco, my favourite is Hotter Than Hell. It just has something about it. A bit of a dark theme and the songs are amazing.
Must say, The Elder has always been a favorite. A different flavor definitely, but really is good. I was hooked on the album as a whole from the first listen. Perhaps I just like the difference of it....have also stated to the dismay of many Styx fans that Cornerstone is my favorite album of theirs.
Bonus Patreon Exclusive episode! Do you agree that Elder is worth a listen? Are Asylum and unmasked better or worse?
Let us know!
I prefer Unmasked. It's not great, but I do love a handful of songs on it. Asylum??? I don't really listen to much Kiss from the 80s and beyond.
The elder is definitely worth a listen! Unmasked is a personal fav of mine; it’s the first kiss album I got the day of release! Asylum is a great non makeup album! Bruce really shines on the album! Gene doesn’t bring much on the album, but trial by fire is my fav track on the album!
The oath is one of my absolute favorite KISS songs, period
PHANTOM OF THE PARADISE SHIRT!!!! SWEET! Great episode. Im a huge fan of the elder except for odyssey. the rest I love.
thanks dude!! Bret was right about Under the Rose there’s a really cool cover of it
Nice to see this show after it was mentioned in the Brett profile episode
The 70s Kiss albums all have 8 or 9 songs I like.The albums from 1980 onward have 6 or 7 I like,with Shade and Monster being the only CDs with less..The Elder is infact loaded with good songs such as Only You,I,Escape,Oath,Dark Light and its got a good,heavy sound.I never understood the criticism by the fans or the band.
I think that the Elder could have been a lot better, a more thought out and detailed storyline would have helped and as well as allowing in more heavy material and involvement from Ace and Eric but it does have some tracks I like.
Loved it from the day it came out, Kiss went Euro-metal while Scorps, Priest, etc, went Kiss!
I don’t get all the hate for this album. I’m not the biggest Kiss fan but I really like the Elder🤘🏻
The Elder is one of my fav Kiss albums, the songwriting is awesome but some of the arrangements might be overblown. To me songs like Under the Rose, Oath, I, Dark Light, Escape, Mr Blackwell are all classics.
I think it came out at the wrong time in their discography, where people needed to be reassured about Kiss after their adventures with Pop and Disco, but instead of reassuring them, they went even further away (and with a new line-up).
As you mentioned, the cover didn't help (I remember being highly disappointed by the cover) and the feel of a real rock'n'roll band was lost under that new direction.
Except for the cover, I don't think The Elder is much different from Destroyer, but the latter came at the right time.
Cheers.
Love The Elder. Probably my 7th or 8th favoriteKISS album. With Alive and Hotter than Hell being my Top 2
23:17 The credits for Dark Light makes me think -- what a freakin band that would have been! Ace Anton Gene and LOU REED on vocals?!?! I love to imagine that they're out there in an alternate universe...
The only three “KISS” albums I just can’t get into are Crazy Nights, Gene Simmons’ solo album and Carnival Of Souls. Three completely different sounds from one another other, but none of them excite me. I would take The Elder and even Peter Criss’ solo above these three.
Hey thanks for uploading these, I've said it before, but I love these kind of episodes because of the strange KISS lore. I'm not really a big fan of the group's work personally, although the history and gossip I find intensely fascinating, like real-life Spinal Tap.
Also Phantom of the Paradise is a masterpiece!
WTF...where was my invite? haha
lol we recorded this like 2 years ago! Bret and I were doing a Patreon only kiss thing at the time, you might have been on the panel we did not long after this
Hotter Than Hell is so filthy and sludgy, and that's why I love it so much. "Parasite" is almost proto-Nirvana, at least from the Bleach-era.
ya dude! 🤘
I dunno. I meet more and more people who love The Elder. And I meet more and more people who dislike The Wall. I'm starting to think it's contrarian to love the Wall and hate The Elder. If that's true then I am a bona-fide true contrarian on both accounts.
ya we should bands where we hate the most beloved record and love the worst regarded record, ying and yang!
I think most of the people who overtly dislike The Wall are actually fans of Pink Floyd, strangely enough. I think they possibly just get sick of hearing it played and/or celebrated compared to the rest of, or most of, the discography.
I actually prefer most of their albums over The Wall anyway (still like it quite a lot!), but the disdain I read/hear for it can come across as a bit emotionally reactionary sometimes...
I can’t believe anyone would love the elder. To me it’s nowhere near their 70’s work, it’s okay. The wall I love, the first pink Floyd album i heard. Unbelievable quality of musicianship and songs. And I love most of pink Floyd’s albums too.
I still don't understand that weird comparison with Pink Floyd's "The Wall" and I still keep asking myself who thought up such nonsense. It doesn't even remotely sound like it stylistically or in terms of sound, nor is it progressive or anything else that was fantasized about. If anything, I'd say it leans toward theatrical, pompous Art Rock a'la QUEEN.
@@mikevillain666 I think it’s because it’s Ezrin producing, and may have been the next album he did after the wall?. Can’t see any other reason. The wall is a masterpiece to me.
I like it but then again, I loved everything Kiss released back in the day including both Unmasked and The Elder as different as they were. Even the new sci-fi-ish image I thought was super cool, I had no problem at all with any of it neither music nor look, they always looked good on posters anyway no matter which make-up era it was. The production sound isn't awful but it also could've been better.
I like the Elder album, and weirdly, my wife bloody well likes it. Go figure. Though either Creatures of the Night, Dynasty, Rock and Roll Over or Hotter Than Hell would be my favorite, despite HTH having what really is a very desperate production and mix. Kerner and Wise didn't have a notion what they were doing. Though I can't say I'm also a fan of Bob Ezrin neither for some reason, cant put my finger on it. Even so, the Elder does have a charm to it, and given what Ace says about his part on it. and the stuff that was edited down (Escape from the Island?) I think it could be an album that would benefit form a remix (cut out the fat like Fan Fare etc) and maybe even expanded. Though Id say there's hardy an appetite for that within the Kiss camp. For me it is a 4/5 album
the elder is my favorite record!!
If they had dropped these tracks: Fanfare, Just A Boy, Odyssey, I
and left these: Only You, Under The Rose, Dark Light, A World Without Heroes, The Oath, Mr. Blackwell, Escape From The Island
and added 3 or 4 better songs they could have composed, it still would have been a concept album, but something that still rocks, though with the occasional ballad, and would not have flopped. Eric Carr was a good composer, and they still had Ace, but Gene and Paul thought they were better than anybody. Gene will admit to fu--ing up, but Paul will blame Bill Aucoin, Gene, Bob Ezrin and Ace for his failure.
The good parts (Oath, Dark Light) are really good. The bad parts are really bad.
Masterpiece
Even before "Unmasked" THE ultimate outlier in their catalogue. To this day I still don't understand why Paul and Gene keep talking all that shit about the album, but I - and thankfully many others - don't really care anymore since these two have twisted and rewritten almost the entire KISS story so much over the years to a point where it just seems bizarre. In terms of it's content, everything has been said, e.g. on this channel in another pretty cool feature, so it doesn't need to be repeated. It is clearly an overambitious, highly idiosyncratic piece of work that should be perceived completely detached from the entire catalogue. One which you should get involved with and one that basically dispenses with all common KISS formulars like no other before or since (except for that horrible Grunge album years later). Released at the worst possible time by a band in transition without the necessary chemistry and the creative input that such a project would've desperately needed. However, an impressively ballsy proof on the other hand that KISS were anything but that one-dimensional One Trick Pony they were often portrayed as by many superficial critics. I love the fact that this album exists, even though it could have been so much more under better conditions.
Asylum and Crazy Nights are my two least favorite Kiss albums. As for The Elder, I love about half of it, especially The Oath, Only You and Under The Rose, but think Odyssey is horrible. I think it’s a funny album! I played Escape From The Island on my last radio show. I think the story could have been stronger and some songs seem to have nothing to do with the concept. I think it’s a heavier album than Dynasty and Unmasked.
I don’t like animalize or hot in the shade much either. To me they had a down period after kick it up. And only recovered with the brilliant revenge.
Exactly
I agree, I like the fact they took a chance regardless of end result, but if they hate it that much then why did they release it? They could have just started over but no they went ahead and made the album, its only after the fact we hear Paul criticize Gene for the story, and Gene is now saying he hates playing I was made for loving you also after the fact. I think the Elder made a statement about the band and listen to it today,unmasked was way worse than the elder in my opinion.
did you guys put the mics in mud?
haha sounds like it, my mic is much better now this was recorded 2 years ago
i grew up in the 80s i think 1980s kiss is the best version of the band the songs especially on lick it up animallize and asylum rock harder than anything they did in the 70s
now you’re a contrarian! you should be on the show
@@thecontrarians2438 id love too let me know
Outside the classic 70's Kiss, I'm definitely not a fan, but I love this album. It's adventurous and imperfect but it was something new for sure, and it's a real pity that they evolved from this into something more limited and basic, and there they would remain. It would have been so much better if the band had continued to experiment as they started to here, they would have developed into a really interesting hard rock band. Alas, not to be.
I hated it when it first came out. Out of the entire Kiss catalog it was my least favorite until Crazy Nights then Hot In The Shade and Psycho Circus. I listened to it with a different mindset when the remasters came out and then again a couple of years ago for a series that a Kiss RUclipsr was doing and I like it more than originally.
Nowhere near their worst record. Not what was expected, but not unlistenable or boring.
Asylum is my favorite Kiss album over all!
it’s my favorite 80s/unmasked era album for sure!
It’s okay, similar standard to unmasked, was a middling period for the band after the brilliant first period to 1979. They would come all the way back to top with the next two albums. Elder has some good songs, and some bizarre orchestral garbage. Haha
Love The Elder…..outside of a couple of shitty Paul tracks.
It's probably my least favorite Kiss record from the first to Unmasked. I don't hate it, but it is not one I visit often.
I love the Elder. I hate Carnival of Souls
The album didn't fail on its own, but rather was an accumulation of hardcore fans disappointment with the band's latest releases. 3 solo albums (Gene's Pauls, and Peter's) that were very remote form KISS, 2 band albums by the same producer that made the worst of the 4 solo releases, and then an overproduced album by a guy who thought he was producing the next "Wall"...+ cocaine + out of control egos + not listening to the guy (Ace) who had the most successful solo album of the 4..... "The Elder" could have been the next "Tommy", but the band did everything wrong from the start, which goes as far as 1978, not the recording of this album. Did I mention the cringeworthy 1978 TV movie? Gene and Paul both admire The Beatles, but they didn't learn from their major flop with "Magical Mystery Tour".
The elder is one of my favourite album, hot in shade is their worst album, silver spoon is just embarrasing..
Yes, o heard that hits was basically demos?. Why they would do that I don’t know.. revenge proved that you need good production on an album, heavy and nice on the ears. Hits is not nice on the ears haha.
I love Kiss. I think the Elder is pretty bad. One of my worst Kiss albums. Horrible
All The Elder requires is a re-mix.
There is a Japanese version of
The Elder, which is brilliant.
HOW & WHY.
The falsetto Paul Stanley parts are removed, as are many of the wind instruments.
E.g. I am Just a Boy sounds infinitely better without Paul's horrible falsetto parts. I am NOT criticising Paul's voice. I am criticising the fact falsetto was utilised to make it sound ' more medieval'.
KISS should re-release The Elder album as per the Japanese version.
Bob Ezrin
Completely smashed on the Oakey-dokey.
Yes, he'd come off The Wall with Pink Floyd. This blinded Paul & Gene as The Wall was a mega seller that sold well over 10 million copies worldwide.
Ace was right.
Concept albums were career killers as they were hit and miss. The Who's Tommy and The Wall by Pink Floys are rare mega successes.
Even The Stones flopped with
Their Satanic Majesties.
Its failure frightened Mick Jagger. Jagger & Richards then quickly went back into the studio and came out with the superb Beggars Banquet !
It was Ezrin who came up with the concept album horse sh#t.
Gene, at that time, loved the idea as he thought he was Stan Lee jnr and came up with a Z-grade Lord of the Rings concept of a young boy fighting off the evil Mr Blackwell.
Ace again . . . was right . . . Complete Crapola !
I purchased The Elder the morning it came out here in Australia 🇦🇺.
The ELDER - Minor Hit
The Elder tanked in the USA but made the Top 40 in Australia, Italy, and Japan as a very minor hit.
The single "I" made it in the Top 20 in Sydney & Melbourne and was on the single charts for six weeks in those cities.
The album The Elder went Top 40 on Australian Album charts, and it too had a 5 week National run.
Kiss albums that seriously s#ck
Monster
Hot in the shade
Sonic boom
Carnival of souls
Psycho circus
Crazy nights
The elder is a fave , experimental yes n very un kiss. It was too complex 4 kiss fans .
I’m in nearly full agreement here…..but there are some merits to COS
Nope. Never liked it. Never will like it. But cool if others dig it.
Over and underrated album. It's OK
Dynasty , Unmasked , Lick It Up and Carnival Of Souls are all better albums than The Elder.
I think monster is great, sonic boom was pretty bad and the songs are really slow. Psycho circus is half good. Carnival of souls is boring, and is it a proper album called the final sessions?, and it does not have carnival of souls on it!. Wierd.
Half of it is okay , the other half terrible. Not an album I listen to much at all.
I have the 1997 remastered cd. From the song “Dark Light”forward, is an ok record. Not better or worst than a lot of their post Alive II records. However the first 5 songs are unlistenable garbage.
this album 🤮
for sure not everyone's cup of tea!!
🤣
This was a total letdown when it came out.. it hasn't improved with time.. can't agree at all that it's somehow a decent record..
Bad album in my opinion.👎
I cannot pretend this is even close to okay. The Elder is absolutely not a good record. Not an underrated album, nor a grower. It doesn't deserve more respect from the fans either. It needs to be buried in a time capsule without a plaque to show where it's buried. Hotter Than Hell is my favorite 70s Kiss album as well.
I don't love Unmasked. I do not like Unmasked. I honestly can't even bring myself to listen to it at all anymore. I've tried. I really have.
MONSTER IS ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE
Not a bad song on it 😊
No..The Elder, over a embarrassinment