Excellent insights. I’ve thought about this a lot too and I’d add that part of the reason market gardening in first world countries is so high pressure is the labor rate and the competition from big ag. Since consumers are used to paying 15% of their income for food rather than 50%, you’re starting out in a hard place and this is what puts the immense pressure on for efficiency. Market farming is really intense, and so is truck farming which is the scale we have been at - same stuff applies. Most of my fellow farmers around here simply can’t spare the time and resources to add any more complexity to their operations, that’s where I was for a long time. Plantings of single crops is already complex enough when you have 40 crops and multiple rounds of each with multiple market channels! The other big limiting factor is training I think. As you say it’s hard enough to train fast and good quality radish picking, then add in the complexity of perennials in the same bed and whatnot and you need truly skilled and knowledgeable people as keystones to make these systems work…it’s really not “labor” anymore.
I love all the farmers you mentioned. I definitely have followed some of them extensively and still watch farmer Jesse often. He takes a very scientific approach, which I appreciate. However check out the work of Jim Kovaleski. He was a nomadic farmer, farming in Maine in Summer and Florida in winter. In Florida he applies a thick cover of woody compost mulch supplied by his city soil twice a year. Then in Maine he feeds his soil with grass he scythes He is the truth and uses very little commercial inputs and is a great farmer. I learned from Dr Elaine Ingham how to make great compost and she insists on covering your compost in some manner. Cover plants of perennials is her preferred method but farmer Jesse has trialed that to no avail. Living pathways that supply large amounts of biomass is a method that farmer Jesse has used well. Love your ideas
Hi Scott, great video, as always. I wondered myself if it was possible to design veg consortia "on paper", considering life cycle and succession. You mentioned that some stuff that should work won't... I'd love to learn what does work! Could you let us know some successful market garden syntropic consortia? Thank you!
Interesting topic re financial returns in horticulture. I hear you saying alot about how challenging market gardening can be to make a profit. Much of which is true it is very hard work. However, i am yet to see you demonstrate how you can make a living, pay your bills a weekly basis on your farm? I think one of the biggest issues in this space is the varios 'models' promoted which are not profitable but people make a living from running courses on it, having interns and youtube vids. You were bang on re the 'over promise' i think this sums up syntropic ag. I mean not one off harvests but a continuity of production and income. This is a real concern when these models are taken to developing countries. Show us how your syntropic farm makes a real profit. Figures? how many kg of ? have you actually produced?
We did a lot of gross margin analysis at the old farm which showed goof figures, now at the new farm we are looking at banana and taro production, we have taken gross margin figures on taro, plus standard metrics on banana production. At the moment I am not releasing figures for the public because I am too consumed in the base part of my project, but as a 4th generation farmer I am not one to kid myself. Syntropy is in a crucial stage of development and profitability is very important. From what I know and have experienced, I am very happy to continue with my 20 acre project, once production finds its rhythm, I will share data, but for now, I will conitue to collect and develop. Starting a project in Sri Lanka where this data may come out faster, as this is the goal there - stay tuned!
yeah hehe! that was a nice sneek peak at the direct seed drill:) i guess its good to mention that market gardening is hard work and specialized work as i know it to be myself aswell. But i do believe you should not scare people of tooo much as in many situations vegetable production (in the treelines and in between as placenta 1) is a way in to make it possible for people to start of with direct return from the land! Not everybody has to be a Perkins or Brody or Curtis etc.. and do extremely good making serious profit because they are timing every second...(yes professionalism will help don't get me wrong) What i mean to say is also... (sorry for this huge comment haha) as i feel quite excited about how we at our farm are truly hybridizing MG and Syntropic ag. in a way that the MG gardening brings me as a farmer constantly in contact with my agroforestry . Resulting in very interesting management decisions...in my opinion is can also be healthy (diversity) to have an eclectic system going on. Where covercropping but also pure compost as cover can be of choice...as you mentioned straw in your bunches of raddish\ carrot...(can be preventend with compost and the jang) but if i grow brocoli or zuchini or okra the covercrop straw will do better!...Bringing in compost is definately less regenerative but i beleave it has katalysed our project enormously creating some nice soft forest floor @lugardaterra...I am definately also going for more covercropping and am super curious to see the seeder at work...for anybody that still wants some compost too check out our new compost dropper haha:)) lugardaterra.pt/thedropper/?v=35357b9c8fe4 Thanks, so much Scott!! yeah let's follow leader jessi hehe!!:)
Jesse is great. You should also check out Daniel Mays of frith farm (author of The No-Till Organic Vegetable Farm) he was on the no-till growers podcast a few times, he's using cover cropping, interplanting and perennial rows in between bed blocks on his farm.
You only gain the skills by practicing them. Is it your intention to scare people off from making the effort? Do you think that Curtis Stone and JM Fourtier started their gardens working that efficiently? Or perhaps by doing it they learned the skills that you're treating as necessary. As has been said by innumerable people in innumerable fields - If it were easy everyone would be doing it.
Excellent insights. I’ve thought about this a lot too and I’d add that part of the reason market gardening in first world countries is so high pressure is the labor rate and the competition from big ag. Since consumers are used to paying 15% of their income for food rather than 50%, you’re starting out in a hard place and this is what puts the immense pressure on for efficiency. Market farming is really intense, and so is truck farming which is the scale we have been at - same stuff applies. Most of my fellow farmers around here simply can’t spare the time and resources to add any more complexity to their operations, that’s where I was for a long time. Plantings of single crops is already complex enough when you have 40 crops and multiple rounds of each with multiple market channels! The other big limiting factor is training I think. As you say it’s hard enough to train fast and good quality radish picking, then add in the complexity of perennials in the same bed and whatnot and you need truly skilled and knowledgeable people as keystones to make these systems work…it’s really not “labor” anymore.
@@jkochosc thanks for sharing your experience. It is important that society understands this, so every story and experience really helps
I love all the farmers you mentioned. I definitely have followed some of them extensively and still watch farmer Jesse often. He takes a very scientific approach, which I appreciate. However check out the work of Jim Kovaleski. He was a nomadic farmer, farming in Maine in Summer and Florida in winter. In Florida he applies a thick cover of woody compost mulch supplied by his city soil twice a year. Then in Maine he feeds his soil with grass he scythes He is the truth and uses very little commercial inputs and is a great farmer.
I learned from Dr Elaine Ingham how to make great compost and she insists on covering your compost in some manner. Cover plants of perennials is her preferred method but farmer Jesse has trialed that to no avail. Living pathways that supply large amounts of biomass is a method that farmer Jesse has used well.
Love your ideas
Love your honesty mate 🙏
Hey Scott any update on the no till direct drill pictured at the end there?
I really enjoyed this video and am incredibly excited to hear more. I'm currently reading Jesse's book and can't put it down!
Going to get right it amongst it this upcoming season
Hi Scott, great video, as always. I wondered myself if it was possible to design veg consortia "on paper", considering life cycle and succession. You mentioned that some stuff that should work won't... I'd love to learn what does work! Could you let us know some successful market garden syntropic consortia? Thank you!
Hi Johanna, in time I will share as I plant some new consortia this spring
@@syntropia_regenerator Looking forward!!
@@syntropia_regenerator That's something I am looking forward to learn.
Sounds interesting but tricky to get the balance right between syntropics and market gardening. I'm interested to hear more though.
Interesting topic re financial returns in horticulture. I hear you saying alot about how challenging market gardening can be to make a profit. Much of which is true it is very hard work. However, i am yet to see you demonstrate how you can make a living, pay your bills a weekly basis on your farm? I think one of the biggest issues in this space is the varios 'models' promoted which are not profitable but people make a living from running courses on it, having interns and youtube vids. You were bang on re the 'over promise' i think this sums up syntropic ag. I mean not one off harvests but a continuity of production and income. This is a real concern when these models are taken to developing countries. Show us how your syntropic farm makes a real profit. Figures? how many kg of ? have you actually produced?
We did a lot of gross margin analysis at the old farm which showed goof figures, now at the new farm we are looking at banana and taro production, we have taken gross margin figures on taro, plus standard metrics on banana production. At the moment I am not releasing figures for the public because I am too consumed in the base part of my project, but as a 4th generation farmer I am not one to kid myself. Syntropy is in a crucial stage of development and profitability is very important. From what I know and have experienced, I am very happy to continue with my 20 acre project, once production finds its rhythm, I will share data, but for now, I will conitue to collect and develop. Starting a project in Sri Lanka where this data may come out faster, as this is the goal there - stay tuned!
yeah hehe! that was a nice sneek peak at the direct seed drill:) i guess its good to mention that market gardening is hard work and specialized work as i know it to be myself aswell. But i do believe you should not scare people of tooo much as in many situations vegetable production (in the treelines and in between as placenta 1) is a way in to make it possible for people to start of with direct return from the land! Not everybody has to be a Perkins or Brody or Curtis etc.. and do extremely good making serious profit because they are timing every second...(yes professionalism will help don't get me wrong) What i mean to say is also... (sorry for this huge comment haha) as i feel quite excited about how we at our farm are truly hybridizing MG and Syntropic ag. in a way that the MG gardening brings me as a farmer constantly in contact with my agroforestry . Resulting in very interesting management decisions...in my opinion is can also be healthy (diversity) to have an eclectic system going on. Where covercropping but also pure compost as cover can be of choice...as you mentioned straw in your bunches of raddish\ carrot...(can be preventend with compost and the jang) but if i grow brocoli or zuchini or okra the covercrop straw will do better!...Bringing in compost is definately less regenerative but i beleave it has katalysed our project enormously creating some nice soft forest floor @lugardaterra...I am definately also going for more covercropping and am super curious to see the seeder at work...for anybody that still wants some compost too check out our new compost dropper haha:)) lugardaterra.pt/thedropper/?v=35357b9c8fe4 Thanks, so much Scott!! yeah let's follow leader jessi hehe!!:)
Jesse is great. You should also check out Daniel Mays of frith farm (author of The No-Till Organic Vegetable Farm) he was on the no-till growers podcast a few times, he's using cover cropping, interplanting and perennial rows in between bed blocks on his farm.
You only gain the skills by practicing them. Is it your intention to scare people off from making the effort? Do you think that Curtis Stone and JM Fourtier started their gardens working that efficiently? Or perhaps by doing it they learned the skills that you're treating as necessary. As has been said by innumerable people in innumerable fields - If it were easy everyone would be doing it.
People either get scared off or rise, it depends on the individual