Just realized it says 1950 at the beginning instead of 1960... Do note that this is but MY own interpretation of this movement, not claiming to have the truth.
Shostakovich is clearly one of the goats, and I never fail to recognize that even though I'm not personally a huge fan of his. His ability to create that sense of desolation, of utmost depression is astounding, and what's even more astounding is that he uses a clear and consistent array of tools that we can analyze. I'd go as far as to argue that his depiction of depression and the absolute zero of the soul is superior to any Romantic attempt at that (incl. Tchaik) since it achieves a necessary stasis. It is so profound that it never wants to go anywhere. An eternal frozen darkness.
This is super cool, Shostakovich is one of my faves. His style is so unique, so emotional. He had to deal with so many struggles and his music is a perfect tool to say all of the things he wasn't allowed to under USSR control. Super cool analysis, I hadn't thought of this movement through that lens, thanks for sharing!
This analysis is really incredible, sometimes I find it hard to interpret what’s happening in a piece on a theoretical level and how that is translated artistically, pretty amazing how you drew those conclusions
@@anti64 But you’re on to something!! You definitely have to make more! Man, I’m still waiting to have some success with one of my long form videos; it’s so difficult! But you’ve already found a winning formula!
@@secondchairmusic I genuinely feel bad that your videos are struggling while this one did that good considering how much effort you put into them, should be the opposite! Believe me I do see the potential in that formula, problem is, I'm not THAT good at analysis, gotta keep in mind I'm still a relatively beginner student, can't just pop-out some master-level analysis for the sake of it. I do like to focus more on artistic intention/form rather than actual music theory, but I'm still at risk of spitting mistakes whenever I do talk about it, already made a few in that video I believe. I'll see what I'll do with this format, maybe I'll get ideas that I'm able to realize, maybe not.
@@anti64 Haha don't feel bad for me! I'll figure out the right formula in due time! Nobody is owed views; I simply have to become better at making videos that people actually want to watch! Through trial and error, I've found what works with shorts, but long form vids? 😖😖it's extremely tough. Regarding your analysis, you don't have to be an expert to speak on the topic, you just have to be further ahead than the majority of people (which you obviously are). Mistakes may or may not happen, but as long as you're able to justify your logic, you'll be fine. Besides, mistakes will cause people to point it out in the comments, which is a good sign for the algorithm! It all works out in the end! 🤣 Don't doubt yourself so much. Your analysis was clear and logical.
insightful, devastating analysis. Great job educing the essence of that movement, we need more eidetic analyses like this! Analyzing just the theory, or just the historical setting, or just the personal emotional response is never sufficient to really capture the piece, getting the right balance is no easy task. you definitely have a talent for this, keep em coming
Another way you can think of the yellow motif is a fate motif. It always pursues the DSCH subject, clashing with it. Also, when DSCH tries to reach higher and break free the yellow subject suppresses it. 3 bars before r.70 is probably the result of the section - the dominance of the yellow motif. Given that the last section of the 5th movement recapitulates the starting section of the 1st movement, notice that the section where the quote from the 1st symphony should have occurred is now displaced by the yellow motif, not leaving any hope for even sweet memories of the childhood. So given all of that plus the sighing and languid sound of the yellow motif, I came to conclusion that this motif is related to the state of mind when the fatality and powerlessness to resist is fully realized. Only despair and hopelessness remains. A truly difficult work to digest.
This is a fantastic analysis, although one thing I'd like to point out is the motif sounds like the USSR national anthem, and could be his anger against the regime
I'm not sure why you keep referring to minor sixths as 'augmented fifths' They are neither spelled nor sound that way. You are correct that they sound as dissonances but they're just neighboring tones in a classic aeolian/phrygian type sound. I do get the sense that English isn't your native language so I don't want to be too hard about it. But they are very different things. Beyond that, the analysis is fine though I think it could use more technical and less interpretative language. There isn't much attempt to explain what's actually happening harmonically and harmonic progression (or lack thereof) is generally how composers in this idiom tell stories in music. I think just pointing out the motifs and how they (mis)align tells an incomplete story.
Thanks for the precisions. It is true that English isn't my first langage but I won't make it an excuse for my mistakes, truth is I made this video as a test to have fun, just because I really like this piece and wanted to talk about it. I was NOT expecting it to get that many views. Which raises a problem where I'm not some professor with a music degree, I'm just a student with merely one year of experience so far in academic music theory, which makes me not qualified at all to make proper deep analysis- So now that the video is getting relatively popular, I have that weird situation where people more qualified than me come across it and obviously don't find it as pertinent as it could be. So yeah I don't know if I'll be making more of those until I get more experience lol, though I loved making this one
I hate classical music fans, these comments... 1. There is no obejectivity in art, keep whining. 2. If you don't like a composer, don't bother other people for liking them.
i agree with you. I adore shostakovich and classical music in general (i know technically shosty is modern, but still) There is absolutely no objectivity in it. I am not a huge tchaikovsky fan but im not gonna go bash people for liking him or telling them that he doesnt know music, like tchaikovsky is brilliant, but his music just doesnt speak to me the same way Rachmaninoff, or Scriabin, or Shosty do, you know? some of these comments just ain't it.
@@theyabib3323 Didnt know there were so many (if any at all) shosty haters, first two comments really surprised me on this video. "Theres already enough despair in the world" lol can't believe people think like this (Though I guess they are allowed to have opinions).
I think that this is much deeper than the claimed refrain of a minor second would be: In at least some (I did not count how many) written instances and most aural instances, the salient interval is an augmented or diminished union or octave - essentially a "cross-relation" or "false-relation". The distinction is proven by harmonic and melodic context in each instance. (They simply do not sound like minor seconds.) Were these all mere minor seconds, then they would be dissonances of a sort, but not corruptive, per se. That they are essentially FALSE-relations can make them a metaphor for corruption - and corruption of what? Well, of the person to whom the acrostic, DSCH, refers. Considered in this way, the metaphor for his feeling corrupted by becoming a Communist Party member is all the more clear and powerful.
Overall he just wasn't very interested in politics and lamented how the Soviet regime demanded not only that it's citizens not opposed their doctrine but forced them to actively endulge it, including mandates and requirements for art which he absolutely despised and got him into much trouble. Apparently later on he was actually somewhat sympathetic to the actual ideas of Marx but he clearly despised the totalitarian Soviet system.
I can't stand modern music, but this one I understand, one who has lived under communism should understand it - it also makes sense for all we're living these days, communism never left, quite the opposite, this music describes it best....Thanks God though, for the gems of the past, which give us hope and remind us that it's all in the Hands of God in the end, it's with Divine Permission that we get all we're getting these days....
@@andreistoriei2050 It's up to you to love or hate "them", it's important to tell the Truth, because many people go like zombies seduced by the fast delights of Heaven on earth utopia, without knowing where in reality they're heading to.....
@@uneqejam I guess the alternative to 'utopianism' is a capitalist, exploitative dystopia. You conservative brain-rotten idiots even misused the Bible so much that many of you actually oppose it upon further reading because it is too leftist. Jesus would've not been for hypercapitalism, that much is clear... Keep telling us we're 'utopian' while you put all hope left in your miserable life into something beyond it, because you have nothing left in the here and now. Keep supporting brutal dictatorships in South America, just because they're anti-communist and keep supporting unjustified invasions in the middle east. This is EXACTLY what Jesus wanted, YES, I am SUCH an idiot for actually reading the bible and knowing the message was to love one another and care for the poor. Sorry...
Thank you for this interpretation, which explains to me why I avoid Shostakovitch. There's already enough despair in the world without adding more. Art of all kinds should give us the strength to reach out in hope, and faith... in ourselves, our species, our world. Sorry, I never willingly listen to this composer.
I completely disagree. What use is there pretending despair doesn’t exist? It’s a fundamental aspect of human existence. Why are u convinced that art’s role is to give everyone hope? Art is free to do what it likes. Personally Shostakovich’s music has immensely impacted me emotionally and I think that’s all that really matters in art.
@@olliemartinelli4034 a fascist / communist will prioritize highly ideological works creating a false sense of optimism and decry any other forms of expression as "bourgeois", "degenerate", "inappropriate", you name it that's why soviet art under stalin and german art under hitler were reduced to propaganda posters and war movies
you do realize music is an outlet for emotion right? its why there are millions of songs about broken hearts and such. Do you know why these songs are good and healthy to listen to? because we are human and we relate. We all have had days or periods/seasons of life where a piece of music like this will speak to us much more deliberately, and we can take comfort in the fact that other people have felt despair just as we have. Where would we be without tragedy? where would theater and movies be without tragedy? where would redemption and victory be without despair or tragedy first. Yes there's a lot of despair in this world, but guess what. Tomorrow there is gonna be more. And i am going to listen to this piece of music and smile, knowing im not alone.
Better title: Why you believe he "creates despair" when he objectively does not. Shostakovich is terribly invompetent, and is incapable of writing even simple music, let alone that which is complex.
IDK man, you're entitled to your opinion, however that opinion goes against what the last 60 years of music history show us: Shostakovich's music gaining ever greater popularity and critical acclaim as millions find comfort in his work.
Clearly you have a different definition of what constitutes good music, you're welcome to use it, but it doesn't seem to be a very useful definition for other people, because it doesn't answer the question "will listening to this music be a meaningful experience for the listener?" - many people find listening to this music to be a meaningful experience; if you don't, well, that's fine, but I personally think it's your loss.
Just realized it says 1950 at the beginning instead of 1960...
Do note that this is but MY own interpretation of this movement, not claiming to have the truth.
It also days „Dresde“ instead of Dresden, just to mention it.
Shostakovich is clearly one of the goats, and I never fail to recognize that even though I'm not personally a huge fan of his. His ability to create that sense of desolation, of utmost depression is astounding, and what's even more astounding is that he uses a clear and consistent array of tools that we can analyze.
I'd go as far as to argue that his depiction of depression and the absolute zero of the soul is superior to any Romantic attempt at that (incl. Tchaik) since it achieves a necessary stasis. It is so profound that it never wants to go anywhere. An eternal frozen darkness.
Schnittke is similar too
This is super cool, Shostakovich is one of my faves. His style is so unique, so emotional. He had to deal with so many struggles and his music is a perfect tool to say all of the things he wasn't allowed to under USSR control. Super cool analysis, I hadn't thought of this movement through that lens, thanks for sharing!
This analysis is really incredible, sometimes I find it hard to interpret what’s happening in a piece on a theoretical level and how that is translated artistically, pretty amazing how you drew those conclusions
This was excellently done! The presentation style was very clear and concise! 👏
Heheh thank you, that was just a test so I don't plan on making more for now, caught me off guard how much views it got lol
@@anti64 But you’re on to something!! You definitely have to make more! Man, I’m still waiting to have some success with one of my long form videos; it’s so difficult! But you’ve already found a winning formula!
@@secondchairmusic I genuinely feel bad that your videos are struggling while this one did that good considering how much effort you put into them, should be the opposite!
Believe me I do see the potential in that formula, problem is, I'm not THAT good at analysis, gotta keep in mind I'm still a relatively beginner student, can't just pop-out some master-level analysis for the sake of it. I do like to focus more on artistic intention/form rather than actual music theory, but I'm still at risk of spitting mistakes whenever I do talk about it, already made a few in that video I believe.
I'll see what I'll do with this format, maybe I'll get ideas that I'm able to realize, maybe not.
@@anti64 Haha don't feel bad for me! I'll figure out the right formula in due time! Nobody is owed views; I simply have to become better at making videos that people actually want to watch! Through trial and error, I've found what works with shorts, but long form vids? 😖😖it's extremely tough.
Regarding your analysis, you don't have to be an expert to speak on the topic, you just have to be further ahead than the majority of people (which you obviously are). Mistakes may or may not happen, but as long as you're able to justify your logic, you'll be fine. Besides, mistakes will cause people to point it out in the comments, which is a good sign for the algorithm! It all works out in the end! 🤣
Don't doubt yourself so much. Your analysis was clear and logical.
insightful, devastating analysis. Great job educing the essence of that movement, we need more eidetic analyses like this!
Analyzing just the theory, or just the historical setting, or just the personal emotional response is never sufficient to really capture the piece, getting the right balance is no easy task. you definitely have a talent for this, keep em coming
Another way you can think of the yellow motif is a fate motif. It always pursues the DSCH subject, clashing with it. Also, when DSCH tries to reach higher and break free the yellow subject suppresses it. 3 bars before r.70 is probably the result of the section - the dominance of the yellow motif. Given that the last section of the 5th movement recapitulates the starting section of the 1st movement, notice that the section where the quote from the 1st symphony should have occurred is now displaced by the yellow motif, not leaving any hope for even sweet memories of the childhood. So given all of that plus the sighing and languid sound of the yellow motif, I came to conclusion that this motif is related to the state of mind when the fatality and powerlessness to resist is fully realized. Only despair and hopelessness remains. A truly difficult work to digest.
This is a fantastic analysis, although one thing I'd like to point out is the motif sounds like the USSR national anthem, and could be his anger against the regime
Oh damn I had never thought of making that link. That would actually make for a completely different interpretation, thanks for pointing it out.
Wonderful video and analysis. I dont usually comment on videos but this one amerites it.
Somehow this reminds me of the second movement from Borodin's first quartet.
I don't know if there's any absolute truth to this, but it's a beautiful interpretation of beautiful music
Great work.
Good work
you didnt mention that the other motif wins. a slow version is played in the last 8 bars.
❤
I stand here today. I stood there yesterday. ‘Standed’ does not exist and it sounds dreadful.
I'm not sure why you keep referring to minor sixths as 'augmented fifths' They are neither spelled nor sound that way. You are correct that they sound as dissonances but they're just neighboring tones in a classic aeolian/phrygian type sound.
I do get the sense that English isn't your native language so I don't want to be too hard about it. But they are very different things.
Beyond that, the analysis is fine though I think it could use more technical and less interpretative language. There isn't much attempt to explain what's actually happening harmonically and harmonic progression (or lack thereof) is generally how composers in this idiom tell stories in music. I think just pointing out the motifs and how they (mis)align tells an incomplete story.
Thanks for the precisions. It is true that English isn't my first langage but I won't make it an excuse for my mistakes, truth is I made this video as a test to have fun, just because I really like this piece and wanted to talk about it. I was NOT expecting it to get that many views. Which raises a problem where I'm not some professor with a music degree, I'm just a student with merely one year of experience so far in academic music theory, which makes me not qualified at all to make proper deep analysis-
So now that the video is getting relatively popular, I have that weird situation where people more qualified than me come across it and obviously don't find it as pertinent as it could be. So yeah I don't know if I'll be making more of those until I get more experience lol, though I loved making this one
I hate classical music fans, these comments...
1. There is no obejectivity in art, keep whining.
2. If you don't like a composer, don't bother other people for liking them.
i agree with you. I adore shostakovich and classical music in general (i know technically shosty is modern, but still)
There is absolutely no objectivity in it. I am not a huge tchaikovsky fan but im not gonna go bash people for liking him or telling them that he doesnt know music, like tchaikovsky is brilliant, but his music just doesnt speak to me the same way Rachmaninoff, or Scriabin, or Shosty do, you know?
some of these comments just ain't it.
@@usurpationofmusic4596 Thank you for restoring some sanity within me.
@@theyabib3323 Didnt know there were so many (if any at all) shosty haters, first two comments really surprised me on this video. "Theres already enough despair in the world" lol can't believe people think like this (Though I guess they are allowed to have opinions).
completely agree with your comment, but we can put musical elements in objective frameworks and then decide if we like them.
I think that this is much deeper than the claimed refrain of a minor second would be: In at least some (I did not count how many) written instances and most aural instances, the salient interval is an augmented or diminished union or octave - essentially a "cross-relation" or "false-relation". The distinction is proven by harmonic and melodic context in each instance. (They simply do not sound like minor seconds.) Were these all mere minor seconds, then they would be dissonances of a sort, but not corruptive, per se. That they are essentially FALSE-relations can make them a metaphor for corruption - and corruption of what? Well, of the person to whom the acrostic, DSCH, refers. Considered in this way, the metaphor for his feeling corrupted by becoming a Communist Party member is all the more clear and powerful.
i always wondered what Shostakovichs' political beliefs were and why he didnt want to join on his own the communist party
I’d recommend Tanatcrul’s video on Shostakovich “composing with [redacted]”
Overall he just wasn't very interested in politics and lamented how the Soviet regime demanded not only that it's citizens not opposed their doctrine but forced them to actively endulge it, including mandates and requirements for art which he absolutely despised and got him into much trouble. Apparently later on he was actually somewhat sympathetic to the actual ideas of Marx but he clearly despised the totalitarian Soviet system.
I can't stand modern music, but this one I understand, one who has lived under communism should understand it - it also makes sense for all we're living these days, communism never left, quite the opposite, this music describes it best....Thanks God though, for the gems of the past, which give us hope and remind us that it's all in the Hands of God in the end, it's with Divine Permission that we get all we're getting these days....
I think you've checked every box that a person can check in order for me to hate them....
@@andreistoriei2050 It's up to you to love or hate "them", it's important to tell the Truth, because many people go like zombies seduced by the fast delights of Heaven on earth utopia, without knowing where in reality they're heading to.....
@@uneqejam I guess the alternative to 'utopianism' is a capitalist, exploitative dystopia. You conservative brain-rotten idiots even misused the Bible so much that many of you actually oppose it upon further reading because it is too leftist. Jesus would've not been for hypercapitalism, that much is clear... Keep telling us we're 'utopian' while you put all hope left in your miserable life into something beyond it, because you have nothing left in the here and now. Keep supporting brutal dictatorships in South America, just because they're anti-communist and keep supporting unjustified invasions in the middle east. This is EXACTLY what Jesus wanted, YES, I am SUCH an idiot for actually reading the bible and knowing the message was to love one another and care for the poor. Sorry...
Thank you for this interpretation, which explains to me why I avoid Shostakovitch. There's already enough despair in the world without adding more. Art of all kinds should give us the strength to reach out in hope, and faith... in ourselves, our species, our world. Sorry, I never willingly listen to this composer.
I completely disagree. What use is there pretending despair doesn’t exist? It’s a fundamental aspect of human existence. Why are u convinced that art’s role is to give everyone hope? Art is free to do what it likes. Personally Shostakovich’s music has immensely impacted me emotionally and I think that’s all that really matters in art.
stalinist thinking about art
@@olliemartinelli4034
a fascist / communist will prioritize highly ideological works creating a false sense of optimism and decry any other forms of expression as "bourgeois", "degenerate", "inappropriate", you name it
that's why soviet art under stalin and german art under hitler were reduced to propaganda posters and war movies
Sorry I will need Shostakovich for late night crying sessions
you do realize music is an outlet for emotion right? its why there are millions of songs about broken hearts and such. Do you know why these songs are good and healthy to listen to? because we are human and we relate. We all have had days or periods/seasons of life where a piece of music like this will speak to us much more deliberately, and we can take comfort in the fact that other people have felt despair just as we have. Where would we be without tragedy? where would theater and movies be without tragedy? where would redemption and victory be without despair or tragedy first. Yes there's a lot of despair in this world, but guess what. Tomorrow there is gonna be more. And i am going to listen to this piece of music and smile, knowing im not alone.
Better title: Why you believe he "creates despair" when he objectively does not.
Shostakovich is terribly invompetent, and is incapable of writing even simple music, let alone that which is complex.
IDK man, you're entitled to your opinion, however that opinion goes against what the last 60 years of music history show us: Shostakovich's music gaining ever greater popularity and critical acclaim as millions find comfort in his work.
You're just incapable of feeling empathy towards a fucked up country like the Soviet Union isn't it. I'm so happy you're living a comfortable life 🎉
Oh my god dude you need a cold one
@@FueganTV alcohol creates more problems than it solves
Clearly you have a different definition of what constitutes good music, you're welcome to use it, but it doesn't seem to be a very useful definition for other people, because it doesn't answer the question "will listening to this music be a meaningful experience for the listener?" - many people find listening to this music to be a meaningful experience; if you don't, well, that's fine, but I personally think it's your loss.