Chidi mentions a lot that his favorite philosopher is Kant, who believes in strict and absolute codes of ethics. You can see that in his initial reflexive responses, however give him a few moments and he usually comes around to a more nuanced approach.
I honestly think this might end up being one of your all-time favorite shows. Just the combination of deep philosophical questions, creative concepts, great humor, and awesome characters feels like the sort of thing that will mesh perfectly with your personality and style of analysis.
oh this is going to be a WONDERFUL reaction series. I'm loving your analysis so far. I know by the time I've posted this you're already done / almost done with the series but I can tell it's very up your alley. This will be a good binge watch 😌
I love Chidi's exasperated pause before saying the word book -- "And your favorite... *book* is Kendall Jenner's instagram feed" -- like he wants to say, "Do I really have to treat this answer like it's a real book? Because it's not. It's really, really not." Like it pains him to even say it's anyone's favorite anything. Lol.
I agree more with Chidi that doing something out of remorse isn't as good as just doing something good. Let's take 2 cases. The first is a person who is altruistic and likes helping people. The second is a person who constantly hurts people, but feels remorse for it and tries to make up for it when they hurt people. I think the second person is definitely worse, because they're still at a stage where they're more disposed towards doing hurtful/bad things. I also just take a lot of issue with a utilitarian view of ethics/morality. I don't think the outcome of an action is what makes it good or bad. It plays a role, but ultimately I think the intention plays a far greater role. After all, morality only exists as it pertains to our perception of it.
I think Chidi will be one of your favorite characters purely because of the discussions he brings up (and also he's just the sweetest) when i think of him as a ethics professor, he's knowledgeable on concept but applying that in the real world (or afterlife) is trickier. When theres a moral dilemma he's usually a "but what if" or "but also" kinda guy. Especially since morality is so subjective and theres so many opinions, he may have trouble bouncing between what he's learned/teaches vs his own personal views.
Yeah, and I totally get why his character is like that. He's very much a literary device of 'present these ideas in a neutral way to the audience so they can discuss' kind of character which isn't bad, but I think you're right that his application isn't all there, at least at the moment. At the same time this makes sense, a teacher is meant to present things to you so you can work on it yourself, and with the subjectivity in ethics wellllll 🤷🏼 I'm looking forward to seeing how Chidi progresses with that role in the show.
@@TylerAlexanderAnother example. I use apathy to shield myself from things I can not control. But when I sense a *why bother* I still enjoy the good things in life. I then choose to just focus on me, instead of laughing with other people; could be bad. But I can instead try to cheer others, and be happy myself. But it is the reason I do this that makes it fundamentally good. If I do this simply to make others _view me as good_, it is bad. But with the pandemic; if I have a problem with rage subside from it, that is my fault. But if I sincerely try, than it may be _less good_, but at least it is for an authentic matter. I am good for being good. I am strict, but not hypocrite. No. I am bad: I can choose a middle ground of tact; which would be less harsh. That bit of kindness is selfless. Me attending myself WHEN I MUST is selfish. The question is not how we do it, but rather how often we TRULY use or ABUSE it. I can then say why bother, and be polite. It may be true, but no one wants to hear a downer. But am I simply RESPONDING TO YOU; or do I practice these beliefs at heart, when public pressure comes?
I’m absolutely adoring your reaction to this show and hearing your thought processes on this episode. When it comes to Chidi in this episode, I think that his hierarchical version of ethics makes sense in this context. If we’re to assume that this system is the height of ethics because it’s the good place, and the whole way that they figured who belongs there was with a point system ranking deeds from most good to most bad, then the way he speaks of Elenor’s actions and motivations makes complete sense. Not saying I agree or disagree with it, but it does make sense in the context of what we’ve seen in the show so far
In all fairness about the taxis, they're getting drinks after work and in America you can easily live an hour or two away from your workplace. That would be an expensive taxi ride. I mean the ones here (Sacramento) are $3 a minute. The bar scenes all tie back into Eleanor's selfishness; she only wants to have fun, she doesn't want to have to sacrifice for anybody else. Edit: I mean logically, they probably all live nearby. But it still her not wanting to sacrifice an hour of her time to make sure her friends get home safe and don't have to pay $30 to $50 to get home. Especially with the price is Uber charges during prime time, for example. Edit, again: I just finished my 35 minute drive to work, which gave me a lot of time to think on this because there's nothing else to think about. There's also call out fee and tip, so like for my drive if I need a taxi to take me home it'd be $5 plus three times 35 whatever that is plus tip......yeeeshk. Now I see why Uber has taken over from taxis, I know for a fact it's around about $28 plus tip to get me to work on days my car is broken. This is far, far, far more thought than I have ever wanted to give to this subject. Brains are dumb.
I think Chidi's point is that it's better to not hurt someone than it is to hurt them and then try to fix it because you feel bad. That's because while you can repair some things there are things that simply can't be repaired.
How you're dissecting this and the previous episode makes me very excited for future reactions! The entire series is so funny, but it delves with different moral dilemmas almost every episode. I absolutely love your take on Chidi's moral logic. I think him being a college professor puts him in a situation where he has to zero in on Eleanor's actions in a theoretical sense and assert himself as arbitrer of good and bad. Obviously, he's not a bad person by any means but it's interesting to see his thought process given he is stuck with someone like Eleanor. Great reaction!
Uhhhh can you give me a time stamp for this? I'm not saying I didn't say those words but it was so long ago I don't remember the context. Personally, I don't hold this viewpoint, at least not without caveat.
Every question you have is something the show will address. And often not in the way you expect. This is probably my favorite television program in all history.
You are going to be a great reactor to take another ride through the Good Place with. Please don't stop with the reflections on morality... and please don't underestimate how clever the writers are with those questions! You seem like the next best thing to watching the show with Chidi himself!
Motivation matters to me. Giving someone an ice cream cone because you know they cannot treat themselves and they have sacrificed for the good of someone else is different than giving someone an ice cream cone because you know they are deathly allergic to the peanuts hidden inside.
8:22 *blinks rapidly* And this is why I love your reactions. You think about what we are seeing on screen and follow the bread crumbs of suspicion Glad you are enjoying this show so far. It seems like a perfect fit for your style of analysis and commentary and is a show you will likely really enjoy as well.
Just found you through this show, and I'm so excited. Absolutely loved your reaction-- how you think about the show and the questions you ask. Very much looking forward to more, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us all!
In many cases I would say a reactor is way too talkative when reacting to a show. In your case, you are a clear exception. I really like hearing your opinion on these philosophical ideas. This is only my 2nd video I’ve watched of yours. This and the Good Place pilot. Great vids so far.
I love your back-and-forth feelings about Tahani! I think most of us feel that way about her. Michael is such an awesome character and Ted Danson does a marvelous job of portraying him... He gets even better as the show progresses.
I can't even begin to say how excited I am to see you get deeper into this. Followed you for Buffy, but Buffy is long and it will take a while to get to the things that make it legendary. This is (relatively) short and your thoughts will be addressed by the show! You said like 5-6 different things here that had me sitting here smiling and thinking to myself, "Oh, just you wait" Great reaction as always. Not sure you're capable of a bad one honestly.
In regards to your criticism of Chidi's hard line on ethics, keep in mind he is trying to apply high standards to keep Eleanor in the Good Place, in order yo keep her from eternal torture. This isn't, "enogh to exist without harming others too much", but, "You need to be good enough to be allowed to stay here so you have half a chance if/when they discover the error." The stabdards are high because the stakes are high. Not for him personally, for Eleanor, and he's trying harder than she is at this point.
I am so glad you started this series. It is so much fun and one of the reasons I love this show is that it is only short 4 seasons. You will enjoy the smart humor in this. Looking forward to this journey with you.
I found your channel because of this show. I really enjoyed your reaction to the first two episodes. While I do enjoy reactors who are more lighthearted, I LOVE and appreciate how much thought and effort you put in. I can’t wait for more episodes.
Absolutely loving your analysis of this show so far. While the show is definitely a comedy, albeit IMO a somewhat atypical one given its serial nature, it takes its philosophy questioning seriously.
I don't think selfishness is an emotion per se, like sadness, anger, etc. It's a description of emotional imbalance. A selfish person is someone who cares way more about themselves than others. It's a natural human emotion to care about your own wants and needs. But for the good of society and the long-term good of the individual, there needs to some kind of balance between self-interest and concern for others. When you don't have that, you get malignant narcissists who view other people as either a means to an end or as without any value at all.
I'm not so sure, personally. A selfish person can mean a person who cares way more about themselves than others, but it can also mean a person who doesn't go to a birthday party because they're at their social limit. In that event they're prioritising themselves to protect themselves, perhaps even while wanting to go to the party and knowing themselves enough to know it would make them miserable to go despite wanting to go. That in itself for example doesn't make them a bad person, at least to me. Whereas your statement has more of an implication that said person is a detriment to society if they're to feel it. I think like all emotions selfishness lies on a spectrum and, like you say, and as stressed in the vid I think it like all emotions, while not inherently bad, needs to be balanced. After all, concern for others is also important. As for everyone having the awareness/self awareness to measure all of these emotions perfectly...well, that's another story. I think the problem with selfishness lies there rather than with the emotion itself.
@@TylerAlexander maybe it's a question of semantics. I don't think that not wanting to go to a party is selfish. Self-care, self-esteem, individuality, putting yourself first in some situations is not the same as selfishness, imo. I consider selfishness to be a subtype of cruelty that can never be truly good or even neutral. For example, going to the party and purposely taking attention away from the host or undermining them, just for kicks.
@@stephenkronfeld9228 fair enough. I'd say semantics too. The situation you describe of someone taking away attention at the party I'd say is a different shade of selfishness in the same vein as righteous anger or controlled anger versus anger uncontrolled or volatile. The same emotions just different shades with different outcomes. I can totally see how you could differentiate selfishness with the things you mention though.
I absolutely adore your analysis of the themes and philisophical questions that are being pose within the show! I am very curious to see your reaction to the rest of it! (and just your reactions in general, I have been semi-binging your videos in the past 24 hours, and I am very entertained!)
Glad you're enjoying and these are exactly the sort of questions The Good Place is supposed to provoke! This is the first of your reactions I've seen, I'm fascinated to see what you think of the rest of this series. Philosophy and fart gags!
Love your explorations of the concepts of emotions, selfishness, happiness, etc. SO interesting! And exactly what I think this show tries to stir up with the presentation of these kinds of questions. Which is what makes it super fun and interesting to watch.
i love listening to your take on ethics. i totally agree with everything you said and its so nice to hear someone put it into words so coherently and eloquently. you’re amazing
Just started watching your channel and have been enjoying your over analytical style, always fun seeing how other peoples minds works. I can see a few things happening while you're watching this series, it breaking and surprising you and you loving it. Same thing with Hill House as well.
The reason you probably disagree with Chidi's methods is because you subscribe to a different type of philosophy than him. He most likely follows Kantian ethics (Immanuel Kant was even one of the first philosophers he mentions when given the chance to discuss ethics), while you seem to lean towards utilitarianism, seeking more empathy for Eleanor's shortcomings than Chidi's more rigid approach.
So I think this is a British thing, but Kant sounds like a naughty word and if something sounds rude it's common here to be like 'what? 👀'. It's not high comedy but that's why I said that 😂
This show is first and foremost a comedy, but it's also tackling some complex topics like ethics, morals, and fields of philosophy dedicated to them. I got into quite a few debates with friends and family about this show but hey that's what makes it so good to me.
You're splitting hairs. Selfishness is a byproduct of emotion and can influences action which is the conversation at hand. You can drag the conversation down with semantics but you're just wasting everyone's time.
@Tyler Alexander What the hell is wrong with you?? Why come at me so hard? Jesus forking Christ, dude. You could have just elaborated a bit on your thoughts, but you chose to be a dick about it. Damn, ease up for forks sake.
Utilitarianism has always made the most sense to me as far as moral philosophies go, and yet I do also feel like motivation can matter. I’ve been pondering it for a while… currently, I wonder whether the only *functional* reason that motive matters is that it’s a predictor of future behavior. If someone is behaving well for selfish reasons / for a reward / out of fear / in order to trick someone, then as soon as circumstances change or they get what they want, the behavior may change for the worse as well. And so on that front, I think remorse as a motivation actually has potential to be a really good motivation, in that it might indicate a true change in the pattern of future behavior. But on the flip side, if it’s out of an idea of… what’s that Christian thing. Indulgences? If it’s out of this idea of balancing the scale, or “paying” for the freedom to continue the harmful thing in the future, then remorse isn’t quite filling its full function.
You're ignoring the value of the internal motivation and feeling when it comes to forming human connection. People want to be in relationships with people who feel things, like the extra with the dog, not just machines who can do good deeds but have bad motivations. Ideally it would be both, even if in real life there can sometimes be compromise.
@@alicequinn505 Makes sense! In interpersonal connections & circumstances, internal motivation does absolutely make a massive difference. In that case, I wonder whether you might consider motivation to be in and of itself part of the good or bad ‘deed’ being done, because emotions are part of relationships?
Tyler, your thought processes are endlessly fascinating, making it beyond interesting and/or entertaining to re-watch favorites through the prism of your insights. I couldn't possibly process much less vocalize my impressions anywhere near as quickly as you do....which is quite likely one of the primary reasons I haven't tried to start a channel of my own,. Seriously - keep it up. I'm riveted. But, dude - what are you wearing? lol
Just wanna point out, Chidi did not say, "Elenor, you feel selfish, and can never be a good person," he said "You are too selfish to ever be a good person." Since they've just met, Chidi can only derive that Elenor is selfish based on her behavior, which he has witnessed. Behavior can have a good or bad value, because one's behavior does effect other people. Basically, this is supported by your point that how we respond to our feelings is what matters. But pointing out that someone's behavior is selfish, and hurts others is valid.
I think pointing out someone's behaviour as selfish and hurting others is a valid thing to do. I think Chidi's statement of 'you are too selfish to ever be a good person' is too harsh and all-encompassing at this stage. It's like you say they've just met, and while you can make certain judgements based on a limited number of examples there's got to be an acknowledgement that your evidence pool is limited and defined, point blank statements like this are a little too soon to be thrown Eleanor's way. I don't think he's coming from a bad place, I suppose in that moment he was being too overarching in his judgement for me. Which again, I can understand from a certain perspective too.
@@TylerAlexander Fully agree that writing someone off as being "too selfish to ever be a good person" is a pretty over the top judgement to lay on anyone... except maybe someone who is on their deathbed, and who has been a nightmare to everyone they've met their entire life. Even then, you could be charitable and not bring it up, since they are about to die. But, since that is pretty far from the circumstance presented in the show, yes, Chidi could've been a little less judgey. BTW, sorry I didn't mention it in the initial post, but I love you reactions. I'm following you on this show and Buffy. You are super insightful and hilarious, my friend.
@@TylerAlexander In the moment, I can totally see your argument here, and I think it was a solid and interesting reaction to what Chidi said. However, in a way, I think you're actually judging Chidi's statement a little too harshly. First, what Chidi said about Eleanor and what you said about selfishness are not actually in conflict. As @tuco74 pointed out, Chidi didn't say that selfishness itself is bad, or that it's always bad. It is the selfish desire to not be tortured that made her set the goal of becoming a better person! But, Chidi IS saying that Eleanor's extreme level of selfishness might also prevent her from reaching that same goal. Every time Eleanor is faced with a choice between doing something that moves her towards her long-term goal and something that is more immediately satisfying, her selfishness will make her choose the path of least resistance. Second, since she is asking for Chidi's help to change, it is literally necessary for him to assess her capacity for change, if only to figure out how best to teach her. He NEEDS to judge her actions in order to make his decision. Also, the full context of the line is "This is my fear about you, Eleanor. You are too selfish..." He isn't even saying that it is 100% definitely true. He's saying that he's worried that this might be true. Finally, to your point that his evidence pool is limited, keep in mind that they've spent almost two days together at this point and she is constantly showing him examples of selfishness. She didn't care that her job hurt other people because at least she got paid; being the best salesperson there was something that gave her a sense of accomplishment and something she could brag about, not even realizing that meant she was the best /at hurting people/; she spent most of their time together talking about herself; she ignored everything Chidi was able to tell her about himself; she was mean and judgemental about all the people they met; she thinks that hors d'oeurves "meant for everybody" means that she can just take them all for herself; and last but not least, in a paradise where you can just ask for anything you want and get it AND in a situation where she says she wants to become good to avoid getting sent to the Bad Place, she still wants to steal gold things from Tahani! He had AMPLE reason to be a little judgemental of her ability to change.
@@TylerAlexander And I also want to agree with @tuco74's sentiment about loving your reactions. If you do read my other comment, please read it with like, a friendly, non-argumentative tone. Like you're down at the pub, chatting with a loud, opinionated-but-good-intentioned American (me in a nutshell) over a pint. :)
Selfishness is a biological imperative. It’s programmed into the DNA of every living organism, because we all need a bit of selfishness to survive. I liken it to when the flight attendant on an airplane gives the safety demonstration, and they get to the part about putting on the oxygen masks. The rule is always put on your own mask before helping anyone else. Like everything in life there’s a balance. Too much selfishness harms the people around you, but if you’re too selfless you can end up endangering yourself and that’s no good for you or anyone around you.
So conflicted here. "I bet it's the monk". But also "This monk seems like the real thing". I think this is a perfect show for you to react to, you seem to be really interested in the same things this show is interested in - the whole question of "what is good?"
I like that you also push back against Kant. I see the value in some of his stuff, and I appreciate the way they often use him as a main reference whenever covering a philosophical issue, but sometimes, you just gotta break the rules for the greater good.
There aren't really any rules set in stone, Kant is just one philosopher, and isn't perfectly explained in this show. I appreciate Tyler pushing back a little too.
Also, he said the *ONLY* thing you care about is your own happiness. It is bad if it's the only thing. Or at least if you act on that, although you may end up the head of a major corporation, or president for a while, or, I don't know, buy Twitter, I guess. You can be taught not to act on that, though, if you're young enough. Not saying Chidi is always right.
I agree with a lot of what you said about selfishness. At some level, we are all rewarded for doing good in our community. As pack animals we're actually hard wired to get reward chemicals when we connect with people. And there's nothing wrong with that or being motivated by that (to a degree). Honestly, I think people who don't care about or connect with others are very likely to be hurting themselves in the long run, so not giving af about others is kind of self harm. "You can't pour from an empty cup" is a very true statement, and its just as important to be selfish as it is to be compassionate, in my opinion.
I clearly said this because a few people have mentioned it now. It's not a feeling, I just had a brain fart and didn't really clock I'd said this as I was recording the video but I stand by everything else I said. The point of what I was saying doesn't hinge on this and the conversation at hand was related to 'is it a good or bad thing'. Selfishness is a byproduct of emotion, and I think comes in a few different shades that can be either good or bad, and it's that nuance that I'm drawing attention to and talking about. Not having a go at you by the way, just figured I'd weigh in on this and clarify ❤️
@@TylerAlexander I really like how you evaluate and discuss your thoughts and ideas. And it's not really a fair comparison, because you're reacting and thinking about these things wothout seeing the show, while all of us base our thoughts on the teachings of the entire show, habing already seen it. Meaning you look at it from a basic and overall perception, while we can't help thinking about the spesific situations that will arise in future episodes. I'm looking forward to more thoughts and ideas from you, as each episodes explore different ideas about morality and what is a good action and what is a bad one.
You may be running afoul of cultural language differences. In the US calling someone selfish comes with the assumption that you're harming others. For example, laying off 200 hundred people so you can out source their jobs and get a larger bonus barely rises to the level of selfish. From what you're saying it sounds like selfish may have a different connotation in the UK.
The brilliance of this show is that it recognizes and illustrates the ridiculous nature of western philosophy. Every philosopher in existence tries to find the answer to what should be, but they all acknowledge the importance of motivation and empathy. This is why there are always grey areas in philosophical questions. And those grey areas drive everyone, who is not a philosopher, absolutely nuts. The characters are clearly absurd, and your observations easily grasp those extremes when questioning their morals and their ideals. But each of them is used to draw a rough outline of particular personality types, and then to poke holes in the basic concepts of western philosophy. And, very much like a philosopher, it does so without dismissing the concept behind the philosophy. *the word "philosophy" has lost all meaning at this point* 😁
Although season finales often have big moments, even insinuating that it's a big one is priming him to be more alert than he should be as a first-time viewer. Just let him enjoy the ride. This show's ability to surprise you with where they're going now is one of its key charms
Chidi mentions a lot that his favorite philosopher is Kant, who believes in strict and absolute codes of ethics. You can see that in his initial reflexive responses, however give him a few moments and he usually comes around to a more nuanced approach.
I honestly think this might end up being one of your all-time favorite shows. Just the combination of deep philosophical questions, creative concepts, great humor, and awesome characters feels like the sort of thing that will mesh perfectly with your personality and style of analysis.
I know right?! this is a perfect mix of both, this is a perfect person fora perfect show.
I think the thing you need to realize about Chidi is that he's just as strict with himself when it comes to ethics
oh this is going to be a WONDERFUL reaction series. I'm loving your analysis so far.
I know by the time I've posted this you're already done / almost done with the series but I can tell it's very up your alley. This will be a good binge watch 😌
I love Chidi's exasperated pause before saying the word book -- "And your favorite... *book* is Kendall Jenner's instagram feed" -- like he wants to say, "Do I really have to treat this answer like it's a real book? Because it's not. It's really, really not." Like it pains him to even say it's anyone's favorite anything. Lol.
I agree more with Chidi that doing something out of remorse isn't as good as just doing something good. Let's take 2 cases. The first is a person who is altruistic and likes helping people. The second is a person who constantly hurts people, but feels remorse for it and tries to make up for it when they hurt people. I think the second person is definitely worse, because they're still at a stage where they're more disposed towards doing hurtful/bad things.
I also just take a lot of issue with a utilitarian view of ethics/morality. I don't think the outcome of an action is what makes it good or bad. It plays a role, but ultimately I think the intention plays a far greater role. After all, morality only exists as it pertains to our perception of it.
The fact that Elenore wants to change isn't just a huge first step, but also better than some real people ever get around to doing.
I think Chidi will be one of your favorite characters purely because of the discussions he brings up (and also he's just the sweetest) when i think of him as a ethics professor, he's knowledgeable on concept but applying that in the real world (or afterlife) is trickier. When theres a moral dilemma he's usually a "but what if" or "but also" kinda guy. Especially since morality is so subjective and theres so many opinions, he may have trouble bouncing between what he's learned/teaches vs his own personal views.
Yeah, and I totally get why his character is like that. He's very much a literary device of 'present these ideas in a neutral way to the audience so they can discuss' kind of character which isn't bad, but I think you're right that his application isn't all there, at least at the moment. At the same time this makes sense, a teacher is meant to present things to you so you can work on it yourself, and with the subjectivity in ethics wellllll 🤷🏼
I'm looking forward to seeing how Chidi progresses with that role in the show.
@@TylerAlexanderAnother example. I use apathy to shield myself from things I can not control. But when I sense a *why bother* I still enjoy the good things in life.
I then choose to just focus on me, instead of laughing with other people; could be bad. But I can instead try to cheer others, and be happy myself.
But it is the reason I do this that makes it fundamentally good. If I do this simply to make others _view me as good_, it is bad. But with the pandemic; if I have a problem with rage subside from it, that is my fault.
But if I sincerely try, than it may be _less good_, but at least it is for an authentic matter. I am good for being good.
I am strict, but not hypocrite. No. I am bad: I can choose a middle ground of tact; which would be less harsh.
That bit of kindness is selfless. Me attending myself WHEN I MUST is selfish. The question is not how we do it, but rather how often we TRULY use or ABUSE it.
I can then say why bother, and be polite. It may be true, but no one wants to hear a downer. But am I simply RESPONDING TO YOU; or do I practice these beliefs at heart, when public pressure comes?
I’m absolutely adoring your reaction to this show and hearing your thought processes on this episode. When it comes to Chidi in this episode, I think that his hierarchical version of ethics makes sense in this context. If we’re to assume that this system is the height of ethics because it’s the good place, and the whole way that they figured who belongs there was with a point system ranking deeds from most good to most bad, then the way he speaks of Elenor’s actions and motivations makes complete sense. Not saying I agree or disagree with it, but it does make sense in the context of what we’ve seen in the show so far
In all fairness about the taxis, they're getting drinks after work and in America you can easily live an hour or two away from your workplace. That would be an expensive taxi ride. I mean the ones here (Sacramento) are $3 a minute. The bar scenes all tie back into Eleanor's selfishness; she only wants to have fun, she doesn't want to have to sacrifice for anybody else.
Edit: I mean logically, they probably all live nearby. But it still her not wanting to sacrifice an hour of her time to make sure her friends get home safe and don't have to pay $30 to $50 to get home. Especially with the price is Uber charges during prime time, for example.
Edit, again: I just finished my 35 minute drive to work, which gave me a lot of time to think on this because there's nothing else to think about. There's also call out fee and tip, so like for my drive if I need a taxi to take me home it'd be $5 plus three times 35 whatever that is plus tip......yeeeshk. Now I see why Uber has taken over from taxis, I know for a fact it's around about $28 plus tip to get me to work on days my car is broken. This is far, far, far more thought than I have ever wanted to give to this subject. Brains are dumb.
I think Chidi's point is that it's better to not hurt someone than it is to hurt them and then try to fix it because you feel bad. That's because while you can repair some things there are things that simply can't be repaired.
How you're dissecting this and the previous episode makes me very excited for future reactions! The entire series is so funny, but it delves with different moral dilemmas almost every episode.
I absolutely love your take on Chidi's moral logic. I think him being a college professor puts him in a situation where he has to zero in on Eleanor's actions in a theoretical sense and assert himself as arbitrer of good and bad. Obviously, he's not a bad person by any means but it's interesting to see his thought process given he is stuck with someone like Eleanor. Great reaction!
Love the amount of thought you're putting into this.
"You have no obligation to your community" will be an interesting viewpoint of yours to examine as I watch you go further into the series.
Uhhhh can you give me a time stamp for this? I'm not saying I didn't say those words but it was so long ago I don't remember the context. Personally, I don't hold this viewpoint, at least not without caveat.
@@TylerAlexander 1:44
I love how much you step out and properly engage with this show and what it's doing.
Every question you have is something the show will address. And often not in the way you expect. This is probably my favorite television program in all history.
You are going to be a great reactor to take another ride through the Good Place with. Please don't stop with the reflections on morality... and please don't underestimate how clever the writers are with those questions! You seem like the next best thing to watching the show with Chidi himself!
Motivation matters to me. Giving someone an ice cream cone because you know they cannot treat themselves and they have sacrificed for the good of someone else is different than giving someone an ice cream cone because you know they are deathly allergic to the peanuts hidden inside.
8:22 *blinks rapidly* And this is why I love your reactions. You think about what we are seeing on screen and follow the bread crumbs of suspicion
Glad you are enjoying this show so far. It seems like a perfect fit for your style of analysis and commentary and is a show you will likely really enjoy as well.
Just found you through this show, and I'm so excited. Absolutely loved your reaction-- how you think about the show and the questions you ask. Very much looking forward to more, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us all!
Welcome! And thank you ❤️
In many cases I would say a reactor is way too talkative when reacting to a show. In your case, you are a clear exception. I really like hearing your opinion on these philosophical ideas. This is only my 2nd video I’ve watched of yours. This and the Good Place pilot. Great vids so far.
I love your back-and-forth feelings about Tahani! I think most of us feel that way about her. Michael is such an awesome character and Ted Danson does a marvelous job of portraying him... He gets even better as the show progresses.
Amazing! I feel like there's so much room for Ted to play around with that character.
@@TylerAlexander think your review of the third Good Place episode got removed.
I can't even begin to say how excited I am to see you get deeper into this. Followed you for Buffy, but Buffy is long and it will take a while to get to the things that make it legendary. This is (relatively) short and your thoughts will be addressed by the show! You said like 5-6 different things here that had me sitting here smiling and thinking to myself, "Oh, just you wait"
Great reaction as always. Not sure you're capable of a bad one honestly.
In regards to your criticism of Chidi's hard line on ethics, keep in mind he is trying to apply high standards to keep Eleanor in the Good Place, in order yo keep her from eternal torture. This isn't, "enogh to exist without harming others too much", but, "You need to be good enough to be allowed to stay here so you have half a chance if/when they discover the error." The stabdards are high because the stakes are high. Not for him personally, for Eleanor, and he's trying harder than she is at this point.
the best insight to this show I've ever seen!
I really like that you actually have to say something about what you are watching
I am so glad you started this series. It is so much fun and one of the reasons I love this show is that it is only short 4 seasons. You will enjoy the smart humor in this. Looking forward to this journey with you.
I found your channel because of this show. I really enjoyed your reaction to the first two episodes. While I do enjoy reactors who are more lighthearted, I LOVE and appreciate how much thought and effort you put in. I can’t wait for more episodes.
Absolutely loving your analysis of this show so far. While the show is definitely a comedy, albeit IMO a somewhat atypical one given its serial nature, it takes its philosophy questioning seriously.
That jacket is very eye-catching! I bet it's super cosy!
Very Fred Flintstone.
I don't think selfishness is an emotion per se, like sadness, anger, etc. It's a description of emotional imbalance. A selfish person is someone who cares way more about themselves than others. It's a natural human emotion to care about your own wants and needs. But for the good of society and the long-term good of the individual, there needs to some kind of balance between self-interest and concern for others. When you don't have that, you get malignant narcissists who view other people as either a means to an end or as without any value at all.
I'm not so sure, personally. A selfish person can mean a person who cares way more about themselves than others, but it can also mean a person who doesn't go to a birthday party because they're at their social limit. In that event they're prioritising themselves to protect themselves, perhaps even while wanting to go to the party and knowing themselves enough to know it would make them miserable to go despite wanting to go. That in itself for example doesn't make them a bad person, at least to me. Whereas your statement has more of an implication that said person is a detriment to society if they're to feel it. I think like all emotions selfishness lies on a spectrum and, like you say, and as stressed in the vid I think it like all emotions, while not inherently bad, needs to be balanced. After all, concern for others is also important.
As for everyone having the awareness/self awareness to measure all of these emotions perfectly...well, that's another story. I think the problem with selfishness lies there rather than with the emotion itself.
@@TylerAlexander maybe it's a question of semantics. I don't think that not wanting to go to a party is selfish. Self-care, self-esteem, individuality, putting yourself first in some situations is not the same as selfishness, imo. I consider selfishness to be a subtype of cruelty that can never be truly good or even neutral. For example, going to the party and purposely taking attention away from the host or undermining them, just for kicks.
@@stephenkronfeld9228 fair enough. I'd say semantics too. The situation you describe of someone taking away attention at the party I'd say is a different shade of selfishness in the same vein as righteous anger or controlled anger versus anger uncontrolled or volatile. The same emotions just different shades with different outcomes. I can totally see how you could differentiate selfishness with the things you mention though.
I absolutely adore your analysis of the themes and philisophical questions that are being pose within the show!
I am very curious to see your reaction to the rest of it! (and just your reactions in general, I have been semi-binging your videos in the past 24 hours, and I am very entertained!)
Glad you're enjoying and these are exactly the sort of questions The Good Place is supposed to provoke!
This is the first of your reactions I've seen, I'm fascinated to see what you think of the rest of this series.
Philosophy and fart gags!
Love your explorations of the concepts of emotions, selfishness, happiness, etc. SO interesting! And exactly what I think this show tries to stir up with the presentation of these kinds of questions. Which is what makes it super fun and interesting to watch.
Loving your reactions to this show.
I miss these kind of conversations. This is an excellent show for this type of discussion and you do an excellent job. Thank you.
I've been looking so much for someone to react to this series like you who asks questions challenges and provides his point of view often, THX :)
I really like the deep dive you take!
i love listening to your take on ethics. i totally agree with everything you said and its so nice to hear someone put it into words so coherently and eloquently. you’re amazing
this guy is really smart and intelligent on how he talks, subbed!
Great reaction and I love your commentary, very insightful.
those videos are like a philosophy class,not in a bad sense,this is incredible interesting
I love your commentary on this show. Good work!
Good points about motivations for good deeds and hierarchies of good deeds.
So excited to see your thoughts on this if you keep going. You really get into it which I love!
Love it! Please more!
So glad you're reviewing this show. DO NOT read/watch spoilers!!!
Please continue this series! I can see your discussions growing more complex with each episode.
Just started watching your channel and have been enjoying your over analytical style, always fun seeing how other peoples minds works. I can see a few things happening while you're watching this series, it breaking and surprising you and you loving it. Same thing with Hill House as well.
I think you're going to really enjoy this show. Keep going.
That vest put me in The Good Place
The reason you probably disagree with Chidi's methods is because you subscribe to a different type of philosophy than him. He most likely follows Kantian ethics (Immanuel Kant was even one of the first philosophers he mentions when given the chance to discuss ethics), while you seem to lean towards utilitarianism, seeking more empathy for Eleanor's shortcomings than Chidi's more rigid approach.
Oh I absolutely agree that we do, yeah. Hopefully it'll make for interesting videos going forward 😂
What's great about this show is that everyone is flawed and we get to follow their journey working through some of that.
The way you have a tendency to go way too deep on everything makes this the perfect show for you lol This show surprised me a lot during its run
You’re very insightful and I really like your takes on the show! I love this show so much I bought the dvd 😅
Did he just say “Emmanuel who?” To Emmanuel *Kant?* 😭
So I think this is a British thing, but Kant sounds like a naughty word and if something sounds rude it's common here to be like 'what? 👀'.
It's not high comedy but that's why I said that 😂
@@TylerAlexander yeah I got it but I didn’t wanna point it out and actually type the word but that was so unexpected and hilarious 😂
@@Bubaiel ooooh my bad my bad, sorry. I get these comments semi-regularly assuming I'm serious so I misinterpreted, my mistake 😂
This show is first and foremost a comedy, but it's also tackling some complex topics like ethics, morals, and fields of philosophy dedicated to them. I got into quite a few debates with friends and family about this show but hey that's what makes it so good to me.
You - big in depth discussion about Chidi’s morals
Everyone who has seen this before - yeah that’s why everyone hates moral philosophy professors
12:33 EXACTLY
When yoh learn more about Elenaor's background that you remember that discussion about Selfishness.
"Selfish" isn't an emotion.
You're splitting hairs. Selfishness is a byproduct of emotion and can influences action which is the conversation at hand. You can drag the conversation down with semantics but you're just wasting everyone's time.
@Tyler Alexander What the hell is wrong with you?? Why come at me so hard? Jesus forking Christ, dude. You could have just elaborated a bit on your thoughts, but you chose to be a dick about it. Damn, ease up for forks sake.
Two weeks?
Utilitarianism has always made the most sense to me as far as moral philosophies go, and yet I do also feel like motivation can matter.
I’ve been pondering it for a while… currently, I wonder whether the only *functional* reason that motive matters is that it’s a predictor of future behavior. If someone is behaving well for selfish reasons / for a reward / out of fear / in order to trick someone, then as soon as circumstances change or they get what they want, the behavior may change for the worse as well.
And so on that front, I think remorse as a motivation actually has potential to be a really good motivation, in that it might indicate a true change in the pattern of future behavior.
But on the flip side, if it’s out of an idea of… what’s that Christian thing. Indulgences? If it’s out of this idea of balancing the scale, or “paying” for the freedom to continue the harmful thing in the future, then remorse isn’t quite filling its full function.
You're ignoring the value of the internal motivation and feeling when it comes to forming human connection. People want to be in relationships with people who feel things, like the extra with the dog, not just machines who can do good deeds but have bad motivations. Ideally it would be both, even if in real life there can sometimes be compromise.
@@alicequinn505 Makes sense! In interpersonal connections & circumstances, internal motivation does absolutely make a massive difference. In that case, I wonder whether you might consider motivation to be in and of itself part of the good or bad ‘deed’ being done, because emotions are part of relationships?
Tyler, your thought processes are endlessly fascinating, making it beyond interesting and/or entertaining to re-watch favorites through the prism of your insights. I couldn't possibly process much less vocalize my impressions anywhere near as quickly as you do....which is quite likely one of the primary reasons I haven't tried to start a channel of my own,. Seriously - keep it up. I'm riveted.
But, dude - what are you wearing? lol
Good thoughts.
Just wanna point out, Chidi did not say, "Elenor, you feel selfish, and can never be a good person," he said "You are too selfish to ever be a good person." Since they've just met, Chidi can only derive that Elenor is selfish based on her behavior, which he has witnessed. Behavior can have a good or bad value, because one's behavior does effect other people. Basically, this is supported by your point that how we respond to our feelings is what matters. But pointing out that someone's behavior is selfish, and hurts others is valid.
I think pointing out someone's behaviour as selfish and hurting others is a valid thing to do. I think Chidi's statement of 'you are too selfish to ever be a good person' is too harsh and all-encompassing at this stage. It's like you say they've just met, and while you can make certain judgements based on a limited number of examples there's got to be an acknowledgement that your evidence pool is limited and defined, point blank statements like this are a little too soon to be thrown Eleanor's way. I don't think he's coming from a bad place, I suppose in that moment he was being too overarching in his judgement for me. Which again, I can understand from a certain perspective too.
@@TylerAlexander Fully agree that writing someone off as being "too selfish to ever be a good person" is a pretty over the top judgement to lay on anyone... except maybe someone who is on their deathbed, and who has been a nightmare to everyone they've met their entire life. Even then, you could be charitable and not bring it up, since they are about to die. But, since that is pretty far from the circumstance presented in the show, yes, Chidi could've been a little less judgey.
BTW, sorry I didn't mention it in the initial post, but I love you reactions. I'm following you on this show and Buffy. You are super insightful and hilarious, my friend.
@@tuco74 no no you're cool. And thank you! I didn't take your comment harshly, don't worry 😅
@@TylerAlexander In the moment, I can totally see your argument here, and I think it was a solid and interesting reaction to what Chidi said. However, in a way, I think you're actually judging Chidi's statement a little too harshly. First, what Chidi said about Eleanor and what you said about selfishness are not actually in conflict. As @tuco74 pointed out, Chidi didn't say that selfishness itself is bad, or that it's always bad. It is the selfish desire to not be tortured that made her set the goal of becoming a better person! But, Chidi IS saying that Eleanor's extreme level of selfishness might also prevent her from reaching that same goal. Every time Eleanor is faced with a choice between doing something that moves her towards her long-term goal and something that is more immediately satisfying, her selfishness will make her choose the path of least resistance.
Second, since she is asking for Chidi's help to change, it is literally necessary for him to assess her capacity for change, if only to figure out how best to teach her. He NEEDS to judge her actions in order to make his decision.
Also, the full context of the line is "This is my fear about you, Eleanor. You are too selfish..." He isn't even saying that it is 100% definitely true. He's saying that he's worried that this might be true.
Finally, to your point that his evidence pool is limited, keep in mind that they've spent almost two days together at this point and she is constantly showing him examples of selfishness. She didn't care that her job hurt other people because at least she got paid; being the best salesperson there was something that gave her a sense of accomplishment and something she could brag about, not even realizing that meant she was the best /at hurting people/; she spent most of their time together talking about herself; she ignored everything Chidi was able to tell her about himself; she was mean and judgemental about all the people they met; she thinks that hors d'oeurves "meant for everybody" means that she can just take them all for herself; and last but not least, in a paradise where you can just ask for anything you want and get it AND in a situation where she says she wants to become good to avoid getting sent to the Bad Place, she still wants to steal gold things from Tahani! He had AMPLE reason to be a little judgemental of her ability to change.
@@TylerAlexander And I also want to agree with @tuco74's sentiment about loving your reactions. If you do read my other comment, please read it with like, a friendly, non-argumentative tone. Like you're down at the pub, chatting with a loud, opinionated-but-good-intentioned American (me in a nutshell) over a pint. :)
Selfishness is a biological imperative. It’s programmed into the DNA of every living organism, because we all need a bit of selfishness to survive. I liken it to when the flight attendant on an airplane gives the safety demonstration, and they get to the part about putting on the oxygen masks. The rule is always put on your own mask before helping anyone else.
Like everything in life there’s a balance. Too much selfishness harms the people around you, but if you’re too selfless you can end up endangering yourself and that’s no good for you or anyone around you.
So conflicted here. "I bet it's the monk". But also "This monk seems like the real thing". I think this is a perfect show for you to react to, you seem to be really interested in the same things this show is interested in - the whole question of "what is good?"
Mahna Mahna
I like that you also push back against Kant. I see the value in some of his stuff, and I appreciate the way they often use him as a main reference whenever covering a philosophical issue, but sometimes, you just gotta break the rules for the greater good.
There aren't really any rules set in stone, Kant is just one philosopher, and isn't perfectly explained in this show. I appreciate Tyler pushing back a little too.
Is selfishness an emotion, though, or is it a quality?
Also, he said the *ONLY* thing you care about is your own happiness. It is bad if it's the only thing. Or at least if you act on that, although you may end up the head of a major corporation, or president for a while, or, I don't know, buy Twitter, I guess. You can be taught not to act on that, though, if you're young enough.
Not saying Chidi is always right.
I agree with a lot of what you said about selfishness. At some level, we are all rewarded for doing good in our community. As pack animals we're actually hard wired to get reward chemicals when we connect with people. And there's nothing wrong with that or being motivated by that (to a degree).
Honestly, I think people who don't care about or connect with others are very likely to be hurting themselves in the long run, so not giving af about others is kind of self harm.
"You can't pour from an empty cup" is a very true statement, and its just as important to be selfish as it is to be compassionate, in my opinion.
Is selfishness a feeling? Isn't it an action?
I clearly said this because a few people have mentioned it now. It's not a feeling, I just had a brain fart and didn't really clock I'd said this as I was recording the video but I stand by everything else I said. The point of what I was saying doesn't hinge on this and the conversation at hand was related to 'is it a good or bad thing'. Selfishness is a byproduct of emotion, and I think comes in a few different shades that can be either good or bad, and it's that nuance that I'm drawing attention to and talking about.
Not having a go at you by the way, just figured I'd weigh in on this and clarify ❤️
@@TylerAlexander I really like how you evaluate and discuss your thoughts and ideas. And it's not really a fair comparison, because you're reacting and thinking about these things wothout seeing the show, while all of us base our thoughts on the teachings of the entire show, habing already seen it. Meaning you look at it from a basic and overall perception, while we can't help thinking about the spesific situations that will arise in future episodes.
I'm looking forward to more thoughts and ideas from you, as each episodes explore different ideas about morality and what is a good action and what is a bad one.
$20 for a cab?
You may be running afoul of cultural language differences. In the US calling someone selfish comes with the assumption that you're harming others. For example, laying off 200 hundred people so you can out source their jobs and get a larger bonus barely rises to the level of selfish. From what you're saying it sounds like selfish may have a different connotation in the UK.
Can't they have dogs that really exist in the good place?
The brilliance of this show is that it recognizes and illustrates the ridiculous nature of western philosophy. Every philosopher in existence tries to find the answer to what should be, but they all acknowledge the importance of motivation and empathy. This is why there are always grey areas in philosophical questions. And those grey areas drive everyone, who is not a philosopher, absolutely nuts. The characters are clearly absurd, and your observations easily grasp those extremes when questioning their morals and their ideals. But each of them is used to draw a rough outline of particular personality types, and then to poke holes in the basic concepts of western philosophy. And, very much like a philosopher, it does so without dismissing the concept behind the philosophy. *the word "philosophy" has lost all meaning at this point* 😁
i feel like you'll have conflicted emotions at the end of the first season 🤧
👀
Let him enjoy the journey! This show is a gem...all the way to the last season!
@@Drew-cv2jl true!
Although season finales often have big moments, even insinuating that it's a big one is priming him to be more alert than he should be as a first-time viewer. Just let him enjoy the ride. This show's ability to surprise you with where they're going now is one of its key charms
@@ErdTirdMans Absolutely!!