20mph on small residential streets might be fine, but on main arterial routes that drop from 60mph to 20mph for a few hundred yards is just ridiculous!
Very few will be reveiwed and they will take months/ years to sort if ever , but then dont like the government rules dont enter their country is aparently is the answer mind many visit the uk and are fine driving at our dangerous insane 30mph ??
I can think of instances where the speed limit used to be 60mph, but they extended the 30 mph speed limit 2~300 metres beyond the edge of a village. So now there is a 20 mph speed limit where it used to be safe at 60 mph. A 20 mph limit in a setting where the correct limit would be 40~60mph. Also, whilst Powys has 20mph limits on straight roads with no housing, cross the border to Shropshire and you don't have to go too far to find 60mph limits in areas which have more housing than some Welsh villages.
(Only partially tongue in cheek) 30 is actually safer. Because while the person I hit at 20 might not be seriously hurt, I won’t hit them at all at 30 because I will already have driven past a few minutes before.
Also as a pedestrian when walking in these 20mph zones, if there isnt a crossing to cross on, the slow speeds are so painful. The cars are spaced out so oddly. It takes ages to cross, you wish the cars were going much faster so you could cross the road. Ball-ache!
I've noticed this. drivers are now not letting pedestrians cross the road nor letting out cars from side roads in 20mph zones. Also 20mph driving in 30mph areas across the boarder in England.
You've got to remember this was brought about as part of the net zero agenda, i.e. environmental, to get people out of cars ("modal shift" was the main aim). It's only when that became unpaletable did they switch the aim to be 'safety'. With that view it's an entirely different picture.
In cities, that's kind of fair enough. Cars dominate in cities but increasingly just do not work there. Outside cities, alternatives to the car are utterly woeful.
I think we can accept all three of those factors as valid. If fewer people drove (who don't actually *need* to drive) then it'll make life better for drivers who *do need* to drive, too.
@@cal_lywalpeople generally drive because they need to, either due to time constraints, children, carrying items etc.. The welsh government have already said public transport isn't suitable to replace cars as a response to a petition to make ministers only use active travel so expecting the public to is rediculous.
@@HubNut Which falls squarely on the city planners who shouldn't be allowing massive overdevelopment everywhere there's a patch of land without the proper infrastructure (including parking and roads) to support it. Build an office block with 500 offices and an expected 1000+ people in them then you need to make sure the roads in and out of the city can deal with that - not just the ring road once they are on it. We have greed to blame for that.
I don't mind 20mph speed limits. What I do mind is the then totally redundant speed bumps which haven't been removed because councils deem them too expensive to remove. The sooner they get rid of those suspension breakers, the better.
@@stewartellinson8846 I love riding my BMW K75 motorcycle, since it's immune to speed bumps if I ride reasonable and prudent -up to 10 to 15 mph over the design speed.
@@lulzyboy Thanks for that reply...I wasn't going to bite on that facetious and smug comment posted above. I too have been driving for more than 40 years, so I do think I'm qualified enough to give an opinion.
@@HubNut Totally agree - I was following a car even today - 40mph in a National Speed limit - came to a 30 - didn't change his speed at all and therefore was pulling away from me through the village. So dangerous. So annoying.
@@julianevans9548if you didn’t vote out the nannies you didn’t change much….the people that were against brexit are the ones running roughshod over the lot that wanted brexit.
I blame drakeford and walters for this problem they didn't consult the people.the welsh government closed a lot of a&e departments and centralised it in one hospital many having to travel log distances to get care and log waits as well
backed by an insurance companies stats,,, not as if they wouldnt like to put up ur insurance costs for getting fined for a mind numbing speed of 26 mph......
If you're unhappy with your local councillor, try standing for your local council yourself. The opportunity is there for anyone who is willing to put in the work.
@@Rooksfoot Amazing how those "stats" are presented in a completely open and non biased way. I mean they give the overall numbers as a percentage while completely forgetting about traffic levels, density, flow, overall mileage and all the rest which would make up the actual picture. Its easy to have less accidents if less people used the roads. Same goes for injuries - one year report a "serious" injury as broken bones then the next raise the bar to life threatening and suddenly the roads got safer overnight. According to the stats...
You can argue that 10mph is safer than 20mph, and 5mph is even safer again so where does it end? Anything can happen and that's just the way it is.. heck, just leaving your house is dangerous but we can't live like this.
@@markf4720 There hasn't, but if there was they would use the same argument that brought in 20mph. You can't argue that it isn't safer because it is, but how safe do you want to feel before they declare that driving altogether is too dangerous? It's all about trading your freedom for safety, it always has been.
@@morrismckinnon6047 yes, of course there is a trade off between positive and negative, just like pretty much everything in life. There is risk in everything we do. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to improve that balance where possible, and personally I agree pretty much with everything Ian said - 20mph zones make perfect sense in many urban areas, but the blanket approach was not appropriate and should have incurred more consideration beforehand. I don't think anyone could argue that 5 or 10mph limits give us the best balance between freedom, productivity etc, and safety.
There's a lot of 20mph limits come onto Cornish roads. They're mostly on roads where you intuitively wouldn't drive much more than 20mph anyway. I read somewhere that Wales has spent £31 million on 20 mph signs. That would pay for a lot of doctors and nurses, and their training.
@@HubNut In theory if it reduces accidents that send people to hospital in the first place it benefits the NHS as well, I just want to see what the cost benefit analysis is on that one.
@@misterthegeoff9767 Except they don’t. The figures that are meant to prove that they do are fabricated, as is so often the case these days. The vast majority of people drive at ‘appropriate’ and safe speed, regardless of the limits, even if that means substantially slower than the limit at certain times and conditions. Those that don’t, take scant regard of any speed limits anyway and are prone to overtake inappropriately such as the idiot that overtook me down the hill to Gilfachreda at what must have been 70mph round the bends the other day.
@@hedydd2But the figures aren't fabricated though are they? I can't stand this conspiracy theory that basic statistics aren't true when nobody has any reason for them not to be. Just like with Smart motorways which are actually safer than normal motorways. That's your problem for not believing it, nobody else's.
The answer to Ian's questions are actually quite straightforward. The change needed to be implemented overnight to keep confusion to a minimum, and the simplest and cheapest way to achieve this was to change all the 30mph signs to 20mph - that was pretty much all that was needed. It would not have been realistic to install a load of new signs and have them come live at the same time. If you think about it instructing council staff to find every 30mph sign and change it to 20mph is quite easy; gettting them to think about all the anomolies (such as those Ian points out) and include them in the overnight change is a massive task. I don't want my council tax being spent like that.
Who's 'they'? There is no broad desire to do away with cars, just competing interests that have limited car design and use as the number of them on the roads has increased beyond the design capacity for most areas, and a largely failed approach to modernising our public transport systems.
@@jncg2311 The problem is that this is all bandaids to a bigger issue, pedestrian impacts are more related to street sizes, signal devices and general road layout and design than it is to traffic speed, the problem with Welsh cities and other very old isle and european cities is their current layouts don't really mend well with the size of modern traffic. and this can't be fixed by more public transit since busses make this issue worse, this is simply an inherent design issue and unwillingness of people decades ago not wanting the much safer American sized streets and layouts for a various number of reasons. I honestly don't know a fix that would easily solve this and knocking 10 MPH off is about as good as they can get right now.
In the 20 MPH debate I've never seen it argued that just because the limit is 30 you don't have to drive at 30, you drive at the appropriate speed road conditions at the time.
@@HubNut Yet they are trusted to make the right decision below the limit. Ice, snow, poor visability, cars with ancient brakes and suspension - all trusted to the driver to decide whats safe. But 21 in a 20 which used to be a 30 which used to be a 60 and they are completely incapable of rational thought? Give it up. Thats complete nonsense.
@@HubNut That's a failure in the initial education then. Those tests should filter out such people as they're not fit to drive. Speed limits are also useless in that as well. Nothing stopping the problem drivers ignoring them, learning the locations of speed cameras to slow down for them then speed up again after, or ignoring them, causing a crash that costs them and/or others their lives, then their empty house receiving a fine in the post weeks later. Limits also don't stop people getting distracted and crashing as a result (which causes approximately 6-8 times as many collisions as excessive speed), it has actually been shown that lowering limits increases the number of collisions occurring, I presume from people becoming complacent with how much slower things happen then getting caught out by more predictable stuff because they're wandering in thought or action because ''20 is so slow here, what could possibly go wrong?'. This is also shown by the statistics from 1931 when the national 20 mph limit was dropped without anything to replace it, technically making 100+ mph legal through even the most built up area. 800 fewer deaths when all limits were eliminated vs a national 20 mph limit in place.
We live in a smallish village just outside of Newcastle-upon-Tyne and our wonderful local council spent a fortune fitting 30MPH electronic speed limit signs all over the place. Less than 18 months after erecting these signs they changed all of the speed limits to 20 MPH. There was no elections or changes to the council during this time, so no excuses for the change of policy. The council were too lazy to remove they signs do they just turned them to face away from the road. Absolute madness and a complete waste of our money.
I visited my uncle in Colorado back in the 90s and on a trip up the mountains he warned us to slow right down as we entered a small town. The speed limit went from something like 60mph to 25mph with the patrol car lurking behind a large billboard.Tourists were not likely to know this. My uncle said he doubted the town would survive if it wasn't for speeding fines. Not saying that would happen in the jolly old UK!
I was in Wales about 6 weeks ago and found the ever changing speed limits very frustrating,speed cameras are everywhere as well,it was not a pleasant trip.
I have to visit every weekend. It's a total menace. Instead of targeting the bad drivers, this dumming down for everyone is a penalty on those who can drive properly. It needs review urgently and should be reversed.
I don't think I've been to Wales since the changes. I used to enjoy going on holiday and for a drive and to the pub for Sunday lunch. I can't stomach the risk and effort so I don't go now.
Well reasoned review of the limit. By no means perfect, but is saving lives. Including those of drivers. People who gob off about going a bit slower might think twice if it was one of their loved ones that had been killed or maimed by a road accident.
As you rightly point out, people get up in arms about the silliest things but completely ignore the big things that people should really be focused on.
Here in France. Macrons government decided to reduce the national speed limit from 90kmh to 80kmh (50mph) several years ago. It had no impact at all on accident figures and many French departments have now gone back to 90kmh for roads in their jurisdiction. As a result we now have a situation where a department may have decided to go back to 90, but when you get on to a "route national" or cross the "border" into the neighbouring department it’s back to 80!!! Stupid! As for the 20mph limit in genuine built up areas (30kph over here) I’ve no objection, but on stretches like the one you showed it’s ridiculous. And the endless changes in limits is a real pain. On the A7 motorway through Lyon (which is a dual carriageway with NO pedestrians) it goes from 130kmh, to 110, to 90, to 70 and even 50kmh. And of course all accompanied by automatic radar cameras. Here it seems to be mainly a way of making money out of motorists. 🤬
I know exactly what you mean, in the area around Valence where it changes a lot... I live in France as well and what they have done is absolutely bonkers. We are cash cows, nothing to those egocentric parasitic political ass..... who are living on the taxes we pay and not helping us in any way. As for the speed bumps, it's all good and well but first do a proper job maintaining the roads before putting those car breaking hills of which 90% are illegal because too tall/long/aggressive
Oh France was a right mess. 80kmh on long country roads with superb visibility. A nonsense probably designed to get folk onto the autoroutes with tolls...
@@mad-FrenchS203 Ardèche 90kmh on the RD86 (ex N86), but cross the bridge between Tournon (Ardèche) and Tain L’Hermitage (Drôme) and the N7 and it’s back to 80kmh. Go figure…
@@forrestrobin2712 I live near Avignon but in 2021 I moved from st nectaire to Avignon by bicycle with a cat when I was homeless and unemployed, 500km, a hell of a trip. Came very nearby passing trough Annonay and going down the Via Rhona
Nice video Ian, The best description of the way the introduction of the 20 limit was done Is Cack Handed, having driven in your part of the world often I'm pleased to hear that hopefully it will be sorted out.
Why not 25 MPH? That's the speed limit in most American cities and residential areas. But for some reason, UK (and European) speed limits never seem to end in 5's, while most of ours do. And to be honest I see a lot of UK roads with the 60 MPH national speed limit in situations where it is totally inappropriate and dangerous, such as narrow, winding roads with blind corners.
If you educate the driver properly then they don't need the sign to change to say when 60 mph or whatever isn't safe. 'Driving without due care and attention' also exists as a charge you can receive if you crash from not driving to the conditions regardless of the speed limit. If anyone needs the sign to tell them they can't drive at 60 mph on a single track road with high hedges and constant corners, then they shouldn't have got a licence to begin with. The elimination of the national 20 mph speed limit in 1930 didn't result in a massive spike in road deaths from the many completely uneducated drivers (most won't have had to pass a driving test to be on the road back then) when it wasn't replaced with anything, (making 100+ mph through residential areas and the like technically legal). Instead there were 800 fewer deaths after the elimination of all speed limits in 1931 here. RUclips didn't give me a 'read more' option fro your comment for some reason, so I don't know what followed '...winding roads with blind...', so I don't know if you typed anything along these lines after that.
100% right. I am from Swansea by the way, we had the biggest amount of exemptions but we still got 20mph on some inappropriate roads, I do get responses back to me from my council and they are happy with the updated guidance. I asked for Mynydd Newydd road to be put back to 30 from the start and recently they have advertised a section of will be so i am happy and things will settle down when 20 is only on all appropriate roads and non appropriate roads get reverted back 🏴
Don't even think about Taking out A Honda Fireblade 918cc with the new limits, It's like Riding a Moped, just First Gear and your licence is Gone in 60 Seconds 🤣🙈 Just So Stupid and thanks for the Video ❤✌️
1:30 What they're not telling you is that in a few years time they'll use this as justification to grant planning permission for a new housing estate there. After all the speed limit is already lower, so it's already part of the village. If the speed limit is lowered and you think you're in the countryside, in many cases the area is not intended to be countryside for long.
@@stewartellinson8846 'They' being local government. This is exactly what happened in our town in England. Sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder or have been caught out. 🙂
@@stewartellinson8846 I can give you better than "research" I can give you evidence. It's actual government policy. www.gov.uk/government/publications/setting-local-speed-limits/setting-local-speed-limits
@@stewartellinson8846 You cite some that it hasn't. Plenty of green belt which was tehn called brown belt which is now being built on. Maybe all those new houses are good for the environment?
We've had 20mph speed limits in Bristol since 2015. It's still very confusing as some continuous suburban roads have both 20mph and 30mph at various points. Just watch out for the balaclava kids on their 40mph electric scooters!
This was a good, balanced review of the subject. Here in Highland we have a Scottish Government-funded pilot scheme where all 30mph limits were reviewed and the majority reduced to 20 experimentally. Consideration is going on of which should become permanent. I expect some will move back to 30, but probably not all that many.
Well done Ian for a balanced, fair, sane, pragmatic approach to this topic. Speaking proper sense. Particularly around the people who believe it should only exist "near schools or hospitals" - it isn't the logical thinking they think it is. There do appear to have been some places (like those wider country roads) where it isn't quite right - but as you say, it's being corrected. Unfortunately many in the comments here just don't seem to be listening and would almost *rather* believe in this "war on motorists" nonsense.
Well done for tackling this again Ian. It's a thorny one because of, as you said, just how many people are vociferous in their opinions. I have rarely had so much internet bile thrown at me as when making comments on this subject.
Where I live,in Greater London,20 mph is the norm, as well as dual carriageways being reduced from 40 to 30. Ridiculous,these are not accident hot-spots! When saying 'the stats support the move from 30 to 20',that doesn't take in to account the fact that driving at 20 causes more polution,which affects people with breathing issues,which leads to premature deaths. So you are quoting one-sided stats. A point that is missed is that at 20, your journey is 50% longer,which more than compensates for less fuel being used to reach 20 than 30.
Where I live in Australia, there is a railway crossing in a 100kph zone. The road twists around and you can't actually do 100kph where you cross the railway line. In recent years a number of trucks have crashed at the crossing. (By taking it too fast) Now they have changed the speed limit to 80kph from 1 kilometre either side of the rail crossing. I don't disagree with the speed change itself but driving the extra 2ks just gives the police more room to book people speeding. Now the Locals are punished by the actions of 2 stupid truck drivers who don't even live in the area. Who comes up with these dumb ideas?
Excellent and objective review. I am a motorist, cyclist and pedestrian and I live in Cymru and it’s been proved to have been very effective in reducing injuries and collisions. It also the same across the UK, France and Spain in my experience.
I've done much driving in France. Their 20 mph (30km/h) limit is applied very sensibly outside schools and down narrow residential streets and is usually for short distances. Unlike Wales where they've blanket applied it even to straight roads that have no houses or schools.
@@DrFodIt’s not “blanket”, it’s “default”. The sooner Wales clamps down on the MENACE that is pedestrians and cyclists moving around in areas nowhere near houses and schools, the better! Who do they think they are? Pedestrians don’t even pay road tax!
4:15 I don't disagree Ian but if a car hits you at 10 it's going to hurt a lot less than 20... We have to draw the line somewhere, for decades we drew it at 30, cars now are far better at stopping, most of them will even do it for you if you're not paying attention. I just can't see a realistic case for implementing this change now, especially as haphazardly as Drakeford and co. did. Re. having another public enquiry, they had one before and completely ignored the public's opinion!
Cars might be better at stopping nowadays, but they're also hugely heavier - double the weight of the vehicle, you double the amount of energy imparted. Dropping the speed from 30 to 20 reduces the kinetic energy by more than half.
There is good evidence, research done by reputable bodies, that the level of injury and death in a pedestrian/vehicle collision rises geometrically with increasing speed. It does not make a case for reducing it further because the safety benefits are not there. This may seem counterintuitive but it is correct.
@MrMatStace that's a good point, and I don't disagree, however modern cars are designed with pedestrian safety in mind, none of those oldschool bonnet ornaments and popup headlights. Ultimately I don't think it detracts from my main point which is that the line must be drawn somewhere. I agree regarding potential energy, but there would again be far less at 10mph versus 20mph. Any speed limit is ultimately fairly arbitrary, I think the Welsh gov would've been wise to stick with the one that hasn't cost tens of millions to implement poorly
20mph would be easier to follow if everyone drove sensibly powered 2CVs and Kei cars instead of family SUVs that go 0-60 in 5 seconds or less. Excess power makes drivers more impatient.
@jonahwhale9047And they will then promptly go out of business becuase of lack of sales. Wrong tree has been thouroghly barked, its the consumers or legislation that needs to change first.
@jonahwhale9047 Well yes, it is indeed quite simple. Personally I would like people to drive around mostly in what would be effectively quadricycles. But a lot of people think its in any way up to the manufacturers, and your post was worded in a way that gave of the same sentiment, whereas in reality it is not. In fact, it could be argued that at least for US manufacturers it would be literally llegal to produce anything similar to what you or I wish for.
So you want more injuries/deaths on the roads then? Because cars without any pedestrian impact in the design, no seatbelts/airbags, no abs, poor suspension and tyres are the best way to cause it - as clearly shown over many years. Walk infront of a modern suv and you have many inches of plastic and foam to soften the blow. Walk infront of a 2CV and after the bumper smashes your shins you have plenty of hard and sharp bits to look forward to as you bounce over it. Thats if we completely ignore how much more likely it is to hit you in the first place because braking and swering aren't anywhere near as doable. Oh and "excess power" is a non-issue. Pretty much every car made in the last 100 years will easily break a 20mph limit so its more a case of how hard you press the pedal.
I have a B&B in Carmarthen and nearly every morning at breakfast there is a conversation complaining about the speed limits. I honestly believe it is having a negative effect on tourism. These aren’t boy racers either, they’re mostly pensioners.
What seems a waste of money to me and potentially to catch people from outside of Wales out, is the decision to change the rules regarding repeater signs. Everywhere else in the UK, streetlights and no signage means 30mph yet in Wales they spent a fortune removing the 20mph repeater signs to add 30mph repeater signs in other areas. What a waste of money, in my opinion.
Anyone in NI care to chime in? Rural areas an hour out of the metro areas of Belfast and such? Haven't been there in ages but friends there say they have no complaints of imposed sp limits.
As an outsider looking in, 20mph is a very good idea in some places. But just changing the default speedlimit doesn't work, it requires tailor-made decisions. In the Netherlands (where I live) it's 30km/h in residential areas and the larger roads for through traffic are 50km/h. But it's always looked at beforehand if the speed fits the road and the surrounding area. To all those people who think it's a war on motorists, the Netherlands must be the ultimate nightmare to drive. But it isn't, it's utterly lovely.
I have spoken to four Police Officers in Blackwood regarding the 20 speed limit. They all said that 30 is fine and disliked the new 20 limit. I have been driving for just over 50 years. Most of my motoring has been in towns and cities with a 30 limit. Despite this I haven't had a collision with any other vehicle or a pedestrian. I therefore agree with the Police Officers that 30 is fine.
@jonahwhale9047 I have witnessed many road accidents over the last 50 years. None of them were due to speeding. They were all due to crap driving, lack of concentration and basically careless driving. I am not magically protected from having accidents however, I drive very carefully with constant care and attention. Now if you think my driving technique is inadequate and I should have had many accidents, please explain exactly why I haven't.
@jonahwhale9047 I don't exceed the speed limits which might be a contributory factor in me not having an accident in over 50 years. Do you think it would be a good idea to reduce the speed limit to zero to completely stop all accidents? I assume you do.
Good piece 👍 As fellow West Waliens we visit the lovely New Quay occasionally - will now keep an eye out for a 2CV driven by HubNut (doing 20mph of course) and give a thumbs up 👍
Nice and rational as usual Ian. What you said about Ellie not liking 20mph is the same as our T4 due to the lack of gears (much easier in the EV). We've just had a series of 20mph zones introduced in Cambridgeshire that apparently had a public consultation so I suspect we'll be following the experience in Wales.
I don’t agree that it’s not a war on motorists. Think of the changes we have seen over the last few years. As well as ever reducing speed limits, we have seen a massive increase in car park penalties, anpr cameras in pub and supermarket car parks and the penalties for infractions are stupendous. Reduced road access to towns, bus lane cameras, box junction cameras. All these things increase anxiety when driving. Not to mention the diabolical ulez schemes… I can’t imagine anything more stupid than someone having to sit in a speed awareness class for the horrendous crime of driving at 26mph in a previous 30mph zone. As for feeling safer as a pedestrian, nobody was crying out danger ten years ago. As for pedestrians being hit, stupid changes to the highway code recently, almost encouraged pedestrians and cyclists to put themselves in harms way. As for people doing 30mph in a new 20mph zone..I don’t agree that it is stupid. Before the change, no one would have noticed. The assumption that many have is that all motorists are reckless and need to be controlled. This is an insult to the motoring community. Police on the streets, as there were years ago, are a far better judge that mandated limits, cameras and ruinous fines.
If you took away speed limits, you'd soon see just how reckless people are. Limits are an ugly way to control drivers but they are generally effective. More Police would be a good thing though.
@@andrewlucas6214 But most motorists are reckless. They don't judge what speed a road is safe to drive at because they're in too much of a selfish hurry to get somewhere rather than just leaving earlier. And yes pedestrians were crying out danger ten years ago; but knuckleheads like you weren't paying any attention. It's not about putting themselves in harms way. It's about wanting to get somewhere without having to rely on motorised transport. We need to change this habit of car dependency as a country. But the only way that'll happen is for those road users to feel safe to use an alternative. I live 4 miles from work. From here I need two buses to get into the office. The other only option is to cycle down the side of a two-lane NSL dual carriageway. It just isn't safe to do anything but drive and that isn't good enough, actually.
given that car - related infrastructure swallows vast amounts of public money and cars dominate much of our trasnsport thinking the idea of a "war on motorists" is laughable. It's some very minor changes which people who have got their own way their whole lives are moaning about.
On a recent visit to Wales I found that I quickly adapted to the 20mph limit and didn't find it to be an inconvenience. Unfortunately there did seem to be a considerable number of motorists who couldn't bare to drive so slowly and resorted to dangerous overtaking manouvers in built up areas to get past me (and continue speeding). This happened four times in the space of six days. I wondered if such impatience might actually cause more accidents but, as you say, the statistics suggest it's having a positive effect.
Those performing the demonstrative overtakes wouldn’t have been sticking to 30mph anyway. I’ve noticed it’s not a prevalent as it was at the beginning, but it still happens.
Are you saying getting hit as a pedestrian at 30 is safe ? well there's a simple test you could do, with a friend on a quiet road, or better still on private property, tell us how it didn't hurt eh.
@jonahwhale9047 so you're telling me that these 30 mph speed limits which were there all along were treacherously high and dangerous. You were afraid to drive that fast, and so you drove 20 instead.
It should have gone to a public consultation first. For those of us who travel big distances daily, it's an absolute and unnecessary menace. The more that are reversed the better!
The road at the beginning of the report was very similar to my experience this summer. A large main road with almost no pedestrians and a decent sized footpath. Plus a 20mph average speed camera system. Not in the built up area but on the outskirts of the town where I imagine it made a lot of money.
The issue where I live. My village is on the border, just, in England. We now have a large increase in traffic because people cut through our village to avoid the 20 mph limit in Wales. I think that the 20 mph is a good idea but has been badly implemented. Local councils should have had more decision making about which roads should have been changed.
In our village the signs say 20Mph but the road between the signs still says 30Mph!! The speed limit changes along single stretches of road are an absolute nightmare. Carmarthen to Burry Port is the same, ruins what would be a nice road. Spend more time watching for speed limit changes than you do the road and what's around you!
That's the issue, lowering speed limits where it makes sense is fine (and should be done) but lowering them just for the sake of it will make everyone ignore those limits and probably also ignore them at places where those speed limits are justified. Amsterdam is a prime example of this, lowering the speed limit to 30km/h, even on wide main roads. The result is that now everyone is ignoring the speed limit. Of course the government is now doubling down and installing speed camera's but a road needs to be designed well in the first place, if the speed limit is 30km/h you should naturally be already driving that speed limit. (in the Netherlands it is even required by law for 30km/h zones to be designed so that people will naturally be inclined to drive no more than 30km/h) If the speed limit is 30km/h but it looks like a freeway well... people will treat it as such. Just putting a sign there will do nothing.
A 20mph speed limit is appropriate in some cases. You can certainly argue that it makes the roads safer and back it up with published statistics. However you could use that logic to say well if 20mph is saving x amount of accidents, surely 10mph will save even more and so on. With all the money spent on this and the possible reversals of the speed limit in some cases, perhaps the money would have been better spent doing public service safety programs again like they did in the 70's/80's? Things like the Green Cross Code come to mind.
I live in Cardiff and have no problem with the 20 limit, and in reality it makes very little difference to journey times, and those that get angry and beligerent at the limit are probably not the kind of drivers we want on our roads anyway. But point taken, it could have been done with a little more consideration about certain areas. But on the whole I welcome the change.
Here in Prestatyn just about everyone ignores it, except where it obviously makes sense to proceed cautiously. Cars, taxis , buses even police cars all drive as if it is what it should be; a 30 mph limit. We will not give into tyranny.
Twenty is plenty as here in sunny South East London we have the same issue of 20 to 30 then maybe faster sections of road 😞 then near me the South Circular is 20 mph nice and wide road with no housing alongside it's pavement just open common land then turn of onto a road leading towards central London it's 30mph passing a school several pedestrian crossing points housing and shops facing the road !
Re your comment on NHS waiting times, unfortunately a lot people will only shout and complain about things that affects them, and not the people around them. A seemingly very self-centred society, sadly
I got a speeding fine on a massive A road up by Prestatyn (A548) last month. I was doing 29mph. It was wider than the M6 and barely any cars on the road. Iv never had any issues with speeding in 20 years until then. 29mph on an A road! Absolutely ridiculous if you ask me! Luckily i got to do the course for £92.
I didn't mind 20 when I visited Wales earlier this year. I think the worst instance is when the change is from 60 to 20 w no warning, and instances of that shd be reviewed. You are very right in saying that the number of limit changes is now extreme. Thank you for a well-considered commentary.
I'm not even in your country but i think you'll get flak for bringing up this topic, it's a no win argument either way, the one's for it/against it will argue till the cows come home. I worked in a sign factory and the thing we always said back then was "signs breed signs" There's a very simple rule in the book that says drive at a speed you can see to be clear and if we used that, common sense would prevail 🤔👍🇮🇪
I live in Birmingham (UK). There's a epidemic of road deaths caused by speeding drivers. 20mph is s good thing imo as long as it's enforced which of course it never is.
Some locations may get reviewed but then the Welsh government will say "fine, ok" but then will say that the local council responsible for those locations will be expected to pay todwards reverting all the signage back to 30. As councils are all penniless, the changes won't happen.
I couldn't agree with you more about public engagement Ian Thousands of people stuck outside of A&E in ambulances while the fantastic NHS nurses and doctors do their best and public dont mention But touch your car and the pitchforks are outside the county and city halls !
I, from the USA, have been driving in Scotland and northern England for the last week. I agree that 20 MPG urban/town speed limits in parts of the UK is foolish. I tend to agree where very narrow streets, lots of pedestrians, but many are very annoying. Perhaps 25 MPG, typical in the USA in such situations would be a better compromise.
Having just listened to Chris Boardman talking about active travel, the 20mph limit was mentioned. He said that he did feel for the people of Wales who have been a bit of a guinea pig for the rest of the UK in trying some of these ideas out. Hopefully the latest consultation will improve things, but great to see less people being killed and injured.
Many parts of the UK have had 20 zones for years, even decades. Welsh are not guinea pigs at all! 30kmh zones are common in many civilised countries as well.
A point well put across on many points. Common sense should always be used in regards to speed limits, its the maximum speed in that zone not the target. When I visited Wales in the summer not only the twenty but the implementation of 30mph on roundabouts an appropriate speed is actually needed which might be less than the post 30mph. Money spent wisely on education may have been money better spent.
I don't have a problem with the 20mph speed limit. In fact driving through a place like Bala any thing above is asking for trouble. I agree with the point you made about the unnecessarily long distance in some places before the limit alters back. I don't live in Wales BTW.
Agree with your comment about the gearing when driving at 20mph. Seriously infuriating between 2nd and 3rd gear, especially when the road gradients change or driver in front is crap!
We have the 20mph limits all over Scotland. The problem is they are not enforced. Police Scotland say they were not consulted by the councils ,do not have the manpower,and will not enforce the limit. ( with the exception of a school area). This makes the limit redundant , I have been overtaken multiple times doing 20mph. When you do travel at 20mph people sit 10feet off your bumper which does not make you feel very relaxed. I am all for 20 zones in town centres , and accident black spots. But without enforcement the most dangerous drivers do as they please, and by overtaking cars ,end up going faster than when it was a 30 limit.
Agree, if it can be shown to have 1 fewer incident/accident, it's here to stay. Some of the limits may get 'tweaked' otherwise, they are here to stay, end of.
Thats a fair point about the gearing. My old vectra c 1.8 manual, rover 75 cdti auto hated 20mph zones, yet my 206sw 1.4i happily plods along at 20 with a low rev on the engine. I changed my mind about 20 zones when a child ran out infront of me within a bonnets length. If I had been doing 30 I would of no doubt hit him. But doing 20 (road was clear so would of proabably done 30) I stopped just short of the kid. Yes I did shout at the kid for being an idiot for running out without looking behind a van, but also told him how lucky he was because of the speed limit change. Do see him walking up and down the road nearly daily and he says hello all the time, and also saw him hold his friend back from running across without looking.
I saw a teenager hit by a car at 30mph when walking home from school in the 70s and how far he was catapulted. Luckily he got up - seemingly uninjured - and was more worried where one of his shoes had gone but the driver looked ready for a coronary. The fact I can recount this so clearly nearly fifty years later says a lot.
Great video as always. Regarding the lack of engagement with the A&E situation it may be because until people directly experience the situation it tends to be ignored. Thankfully only a small % of the population visit A&E in any given day but tens of thousands experience the 20 M.P.H. restriction so the result is more vocal protest.
most (if not all) of the people complaining about the 20 limits don't live on them, I can see very few residents wanting to speed up traffic past their houses. What would be good to see though is in those 20 MPH limits the removal of speed humps etc. I do agree that there are some stretches with no houses or pedestrians that should return to a 30, and the overall numbers of speed limit changes going between villages does get tiring, but there are also some of the villages where it is a 40 (or higher) through the village that never feels right.
Here in Germany, especially around my place in the Ruhraerea they have introduced a lot of senceless 30 km/h speed limits in big cities. In Dortmund for example there are big four lane main roads where those days was a normal 50 km/h limit. The reasons that there are 30 km/h limits now are, air polution and noise reduction. The thing is, that there you find so many traffic lights, that you nearly never can reach 50 km/h, especially in the rushours. In the night it is absolute senceless to keep 30 km/h on those big roads. Noise reduction or keeping the air clean couldn't be serious arguments. When I'm driving there with my Kia Sorento 2.2 CRDI 16V and automatic gear it doesn't produce more noise or polution, doesn't matter wether 30 or 50 km/h. When I take my 1998 Mazda 626 2.0 16V for the same way, it produces more noise and polution at 30 km/h than at 50 km/h. It's a manual gear and it is no problem to drive 50 km/h in the fourth gear with 1.500 RPM. In a 30 km/h limit zone I can't use the third gear, because I can't drive with 1.200 RPM. So I have to use the second gear with 1.800 RPM. And that means more emissions and more noise and I spend more time under those conditions in the zone than with 50 km/h. 30 km/h zones make lot of sence in small residential roads like my one or in front of schools, hospitals or homes for aged. In some places there are 30 km/,h limits only for a period of time, for example between 7.00 am and 4.00 pm in front of schools. I'm fine with a regulation like that. In Colounge and Dortmund they have introduced 30 km/h limits only for the night after 22.00 h on their big ringroads, to avoid illegal street races, which caused a lot of serious accidents in the past sometimes with letal consequences. Senceless speed limits you find sometimes on wide open roads without any obstacles or danger of people or cyclists cross the road. Especially often at those places they put speed cameras just to rip of the drivers because they now, that most of them don't see a reason to keep the limit there. Interesting to see that in your country are existing the same problems. 😊
Here in Oz our slowdown limit is 40Kph or 25mph. As Ian would remember, whenever you drive through the smaller towns in New Zealand the limit becomes 50Kph which is 30mph so it would look like this is just falling in line with other Commonwealth countries 🤷
hi please lets get back to the green x code and have everyone responsible for there own safety driving and walking so many just walk out looking at there mobile if the car driver is doing the same bang! thats not an accident they must both take the blame
Locally we have had 20mph since the start of the year in Herne Bay. Very much pro the new limits, although the Mondeo 'can't do' 20, same as Elly. Locals have taken to painting over the limits, which also seems a self-defeating form of protest.
You got it right, 20mph is a positive move around making Wales a better and safer place to live, but there are areas where 20mph is extended or used in places that seem just bonkers. Your use of the word "clumsy" is an excellent description. It has been a complete mess, I also know of many areas of fast A and B roads going into a built up area (20mph) where 30mph are used as a buffer zone, this is problematic as often this zone is taken from the faster limit and again is extended a very long way out, this seems to create a disconnect with the road and what the speed limit is, thus creating as disengagement with speed limits - people get used to ignoring the the 30mph and then just blow thought the subsequent 20mph zone. I hope in time these issues can be worked out as without this the complaints of the 20mph will be low and punitive action will not help it will only push away from positive engagement, it is far better to get drivers to see the need and be on side so they slow down at there own will.
Expect your civil liberties to be eroded further as time goes by. It’ll no doubt happen here in the US too but for now, a road trip is still a road trip - yunno … the ones where you look out the window most of the time rather than your speedo. It’s so relaxing
We regularly have people doing 40 in the 20 zone in the villages leading to ours (just over the border into Chester), but prior to the change across Wales, they were doing 40 - 50 in the 30mph zone. I do believe the blanket approach was not the best and that the changes should have been made based on pedestrian risk.
I went to collect a package today and noticed that there's a speed display there today that wasn't there yesterday. Located so near the speed limit sign that it angrily flashes red at you even when you're still far enough away that the lower limit doesn't even apply yet...
Here in Canada, the equivalent of the 20mph limit has been common for decades and motorists comply with it without complaint. In general our speed limits are much lower than those of the UK overall anyway; although motorists here frequently drive above those limits, except in 30kph zones. Because most of the cars sold here in Canada are automatics, this is perhaps a little easier to manage. Personally I have found this hard to achieve in a manual driven car, because the neither the gearing or the engine design is intended to sit at such low speeds. I think that's the problem, modern cars are simply not meant to drive at such low speeds. Modern cars, unlike cars of the fifties, are designed to drive much quicker and these very slow speeds can cause issues with the engine systems and catalytic converters, which don't work as they should when a vehicle is driven too slowly, and therein lies some of the problem. Anyhow, that's just my twopennth worth.
20mph on small residential streets might be fine, but on main arterial routes that drop from 60mph to 20mph for a few hundred yards is just ridiculous!
I'm sure some of these will be reviewed.
Very few will be reveiwed and they will take months/ years to sort if ever , but then dont like the government rules dont enter their country is aparently is the answer mind many visit the uk and are fine driving at our dangerous insane 30mph ??
I can think of instances where the speed limit used to be 60mph, but they extended the 30 mph speed limit 2~300 metres beyond the edge of a village.
So now there is a 20 mph speed limit where it used to be safe at 60 mph. A 20 mph limit in a setting where the correct limit would be 40~60mph.
Also, whilst Powys has 20mph limits on straight roads with no housing, cross the border to Shropshire and you don't have to go too far to find 60mph limits in areas which have more housing than some Welsh villages.
No different to 60 down to 30.
@@tonys1636 How can "60 to 20" possibly be no different to "60 down to 30" ?????????
(Only partially tongue in cheek) 30 is actually safer. Because while the person I hit at 20 might not be seriously hurt, I won’t hit them at all at 30 because I will already have driven past a few minutes before.
Its not 20mph that's the issue, its blanket 20mph everywhere dumb blunt approach.
I'm sure people said the same when the 30 limit came in, or seatbelt laws.
@@HubNut How can seatbelt laws be specific then? 🙂
@@HubNut or the 70mph speed limit: ruclips.net/video/IR2lOEiXNbw/видео.html
@@HubNut seatbelts (and great cars): ruclips.net/video/950kIPv3f38/видео.html It's always the same.
@@HubNut I'm not against the 20 limit, I'm against a ham fisted implementation of it.
Also as a pedestrian when walking in these 20mph zones, if there isnt a crossing to cross on, the slow speeds are so painful. The cars are spaced out so oddly. It takes ages to cross, you wish the cars were going much faster so you could cross the road. Ball-ache!
I've noticed this. drivers are now not letting pedestrians cross the road nor letting out cars from side roads in 20mph zones. Also 20mph driving in 30mph areas across the boarder in England.
You've got to remember this was brought about as part of the net zero agenda, i.e. environmental, to get people out of cars ("modal shift" was the main aim). It's only when that became unpaletable did they switch the aim to be 'safety'. With that view it's an entirely different picture.
In cities, that's kind of fair enough. Cars dominate in cities but increasingly just do not work there. Outside cities, alternatives to the car are utterly woeful.
I think we can accept all three of those factors as valid. If fewer people drove (who don't actually *need* to drive) then it'll make life better for drivers who *do need* to drive, too.
@@cal_lywalpeople generally drive because they need to, either due to time constraints, children, carrying items etc.. The welsh government have already said public transport isn't suitable to replace cars as a response to a petition to make ministers only use active travel so expecting the public to is rediculous.
@@cal_lywal This is all sounding very Communistical.
@@HubNut Which falls squarely on the city planners who shouldn't be allowing massive overdevelopment everywhere there's a patch of land without the proper infrastructure (including parking and roads) to support it.
Build an office block with 500 offices and an expected 1000+ people in them then you need to make sure the roads in and out of the city can deal with that - not just the ring road once they are on it.
We have greed to blame for that.
I don't mind 20mph speed limits. What I do mind is the then totally redundant speed bumps which haven't been removed because councils deem them too expensive to remove. The sooner they get rid of those suspension breakers, the better.
have you tried slowing down? In 40 + years of driving i've never had any suspension damaged by a speed bump.
@@stewartellinson8846 i think that's already the point... how slow do you want people to go?
@@stewartellinson8846 I love riding my BMW K75 motorcycle, since it's immune to speed bumps if I ride reasonable and prudent -up to 10 to 15 mph over the design speed.
@@lulzyboy Thanks for that reply...I wasn't going to bite on that facetious and smug comment posted above. I too have been driving for more than 40 years, so I do think I'm qualified enough to give an opinion.
Chances are you won't get caught there arnt any police to catch you😂😂
The worst thing about driving around is the people that drive 20mph under the posted limit
I'd say the 40mph-everywhere people are worse. I swear they don't actually know what a speedometer is.
@@HubNut Totally agree - I was following a car even today - 40mph in a National Speed limit - came to a 30 - didn't change his speed at all and therefore was pulling away from me through the village. So dangerous. So annoying.
Escape the EU to be a nanny state anyway….
@@themancalledx You actually thought that was going to happen???🤣
@@julianevans9548if you didn’t vote out the nannies you didn’t change much….the people that were against brexit are the ones running roughshod over the lot that wanted brexit.
I blame drakeford and walters for this problem they didn't consult the people.the welsh government closed a lot of a&e departments and centralised it in one hospital many having to travel log distances to get care and log waits as well
Money, money, money!
Must be funny!
In a councillors world! 🙄
backed by an insurance companies stats,,, not as if they wouldnt like to put up ur insurance costs for getting fined for a mind numbing speed of 26 mph......
If you're unhappy with your local councillor, try standing for your local council yourself. The opportunity is there for anyone who is willing to put in the work.
@@Rooksfoot Amazing how those "stats" are presented in a completely open and non biased way. I mean they give the overall numbers as a percentage while completely forgetting about traffic levels, density, flow, overall mileage and all the rest which would make up the actual picture.
Its easy to have less accidents if less people used the roads.
Same goes for injuries - one year report a "serious" injury as broken bones then the next raise the bar to life threatening and suddenly the roads got safer overnight. According to the stats...
@@siraff4461 Except the stats arent skewed to make the roads appear safer are they in fact quite the opposite
You can argue that 10mph is safer than 20mph, and 5mph is even safer again so where does it end? Anything can happen and that's just the way it is.. heck, just leaving your house is dangerous but we can't live like this.
Exactly...
I've not heard any suggestion from anywhere about a 10mph or 5mph limit coming in. Have you?
@@markf4720 When Trudeau hears about the Welsh success, he'll probably outdo them in Canada.
@@markf4720 There hasn't, but if there was they would use the same argument that brought in 20mph. You can't argue that it isn't safer because it is, but how safe do you want to feel before they declare that driving altogether is too dangerous? It's all about trading your freedom for safety, it always has been.
@@morrismckinnon6047 yes, of course there is a trade off between positive and negative, just like pretty much everything in life. There is risk in everything we do. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to improve that balance where possible, and personally I agree pretty much with everything Ian said - 20mph zones make perfect sense in many urban areas, but the blanket approach was not appropriate and should have incurred more consideration beforehand. I don't think anyone could argue that 5 or 10mph limits give us the best balance between freedom, productivity etc, and safety.
There's a lot of 20mph limits come onto Cornish roads. They're mostly on roads where you intuitively wouldn't drive much more than 20mph anyway.
I read somewhere that Wales has spent £31 million on 20 mph signs. That would pay for a lot of doctors and nurses, and their training.
Aye. It is a lot. And now another £5m...
@@HubNut In theory if it reduces accidents that send people to hospital in the first place it benefits the NHS as well, I just want to see what the cost benefit analysis is on that one.
@@misterthegeoff9767 Except they don’t. The figures that are meant to prove that they do are fabricated, as is so often the case these days. The vast majority of people drive at ‘appropriate’ and safe speed, regardless of the limits, even if that means substantially slower than the limit at certain times and conditions. Those that don’t, take scant regard of any speed limits anyway and are prone to overtake inappropriately such as the idiot that overtook me down the hill to Gilfachreda at what must have been 70mph round the bends the other day.
Which the government will make back for themselves in a few weeks.
@@hedydd2But the figures aren't fabricated though are they? I can't stand this conspiracy theory that basic statistics aren't true when nobody has any reason for them not to be. Just like with Smart motorways which are actually safer than normal motorways. That's your problem for not believing it, nobody else's.
The answer to Ian's questions are actually quite straightforward. The change needed to be implemented overnight to keep confusion to a minimum, and the simplest and cheapest way to achieve this was to change all the 30mph signs to 20mph - that was pretty much all that was needed. It would not have been realistic to install a load of new signs and have them come live at the same time.
If you think about it instructing council staff to find every 30mph sign and change it to 20mph is quite easy; gettting them to think about all the anomolies (such as those Ian points out) and include them in the overnight change is a massive task.
I don't want my council tax being spent like that.
They spent over £25m changing all the signs. They had to. It may be the default but you still have to signpost where that 20 limit starts. Not cheap.
@@HubNut How many lives would be saved if that money was put toward the NHS?
If you drop it to 10mph casualties will drop further. Ultimately they want to do away with cars.
Not only Wales, not only UK!
Who's 'they'? There is no broad desire to do away with cars, just competing interests that have limited car design and use as the number of them on the roads has increased beyond the design capacity for most areas, and a largely failed approach to modernising our public transport systems.
Come on, it's about balance.
@@jncg2311 The problem is that this is all bandaids to a bigger issue, pedestrian impacts are more related to street sizes, signal devices and general road layout and design than it is to traffic speed, the problem with Welsh cities and other very old isle and european cities is their current layouts don't really mend well with the size of modern traffic.
and this can't be fixed by more public transit since busses make this issue worse, this is simply an inherent design issue and unwillingness of people decades ago not wanting the much safer American sized streets and layouts for a various number of reasons.
I honestly don't know a fix that would easily solve this and knocking 10 MPH off is about as good as they can get right now.
@@jncg2311they absolutely want to remove cars it's in Labour's transport policy document.
While not your usual type of content, I have to say this is one of your best produced videos! Well done Sir.
In the 20 MPH debate I've never seen it argued that just because the limit is 30 you don't have to drive at 30, you drive at the appropriate speed road conditions at the time.
And the reason limits exist is because people cannot be trusted to make the right decision.
@@HubNut Yet they are trusted to make the right decision below the limit. Ice, snow, poor visability, cars with ancient brakes and suspension - all trusted to the driver to decide whats safe. But 21 in a 20 which used to be a 30 which used to be a 60 and they are completely incapable of rational thought?
Give it up. Thats complete nonsense.
@@HubNut That's a failure in the initial education then. Those tests should filter out such people as they're not fit to drive. Speed limits are also useless in that as well. Nothing stopping the problem drivers ignoring them, learning the locations of speed cameras to slow down for them then speed up again after, or ignoring them, causing a crash that costs them and/or others their lives, then their empty house receiving a fine in the post weeks later.
Limits also don't stop people getting distracted and crashing as a result (which causes approximately 6-8 times as many collisions as excessive speed), it has actually been shown that lowering limits increases the number of collisions occurring, I presume from people becoming complacent with how much slower things happen then getting caught out by more predictable stuff because they're wandering in thought or action because ''20 is so slow here, what could possibly go wrong?'. This is also shown by the statistics from 1931 when the national 20 mph limit was dropped without anything to replace it, technically making 100+ mph legal through even the most built up area. 800 fewer deaths when all limits were eliminated vs a national 20 mph limit in place.
They couldn't do a better job at burning our money
We live in a smallish village just outside of Newcastle-upon-Tyne and our wonderful local council spent a fortune fitting 30MPH electronic speed limit signs all over the place. Less than 18 months after erecting these signs they changed all of the speed limits to 20 MPH. There was no elections or changes to the council during this time, so no excuses for the change of policy. The council were too lazy to remove they signs do they just turned them to face away from the road. Absolute madness and a complete waste of our money.
Gawd...
I visited my uncle in Colorado back in the 90s and on a trip up the mountains he warned us to slow right down as we entered a small town. The speed limit went from something like 60mph to 25mph with the patrol car lurking behind a large billboard.Tourists were not likely to know this. My uncle said he doubted the town would survive if it wasn't for speeding fines. Not saying that would happen in the jolly old UK!
I was in Wales about 6 weeks ago and found the ever changing speed limits very frustrating,speed cameras are everywhere as well,it was not a pleasant trip.
I have to visit every weekend. It's a total menace. Instead of targeting the bad drivers, this dumming down for everyone is a penalty on those who can drive properly. It needs review urgently and should be reversed.
Wise words… ditto!
Oh well… they’ll just have to do without my money in future…🤡
I don't think I've been to Wales since the changes. I used to enjoy going on holiday and for a drive and to the pub for Sunday lunch. I can't stomach the risk and effort so I don't go now.
@@nomdeplume2724 Fine. Money isn't and shouldn't be the only consideration when determining policy. We'll manage. Diolch
Well reasoned review of the limit. By no means perfect, but is saving lives. Including those of drivers. People who gob off about going a bit slower might think twice if it was one of their loved ones that had been killed or maimed by a road accident.
Local government putting something into place without thinking about it first, surley not!!
The Welsh Government is a national government not "local"
They thought very carefully about it and got the results they wanted. Then they release the straps slightly. They'll tighten them again sometime soon.
As you rightly point out, people get up in arms about the silliest things but completely ignore the big things that people should really be focused on.
We tried it in NZ. Now being repealed back to 50 kph.
Here in France. Macrons government decided to reduce the national speed limit from 90kmh to 80kmh (50mph) several years ago. It had no impact at all on accident figures and many French departments have now gone back to 90kmh for roads in their jurisdiction. As a result we now have a situation where a department may have decided to go back to 90, but when you get on to a "route national" or cross the "border" into the neighbouring department it’s back to 80!!! Stupid!
As for the 20mph limit in genuine built up areas (30kph over here) I’ve no objection, but on stretches like the one you showed it’s ridiculous. And the endless changes in limits is a real pain. On the A7 motorway through Lyon (which is a dual carriageway with NO pedestrians) it goes from 130kmh, to 110, to 90, to 70 and even 50kmh. And of course all accompanied by automatic radar cameras. Here it seems to be mainly a way of making money out of motorists. 🤬
I know exactly what you mean, in the area around Valence where it changes a lot...
I live in France as well and what they have done is absolutely bonkers. We are cash cows, nothing to those egocentric parasitic political ass..... who are living on the taxes we pay and not helping us in any way.
As for the speed bumps, it's all good and well but first do a proper job maintaining the roads before putting those car breaking hills of which 90% are illegal because too tall/long/aggressive
Oh France was a right mess. 80kmh on long country roads with superb visibility. A nonsense probably designed to get folk onto the autoroutes with tolls...
@@mad-FrenchS203 I live in Tournon sur Rhône so we are near neighbours! Where are you ?
@@mad-FrenchS203 Ardèche 90kmh on the RD86 (ex N86), but cross the bridge between Tournon (Ardèche) and Tain L’Hermitage (Drôme) and the N7 and it’s back to 80kmh. Go figure…
@@forrestrobin2712 I live near Avignon but in 2021 I moved from st nectaire to Avignon by bicycle with a cat when I was homeless and unemployed, 500km, a hell of a trip. Came very nearby passing trough Annonay and going down the Via Rhona
Wait till pay per mile comes in and then tell me its not a war on motorists and personal liberty.
@@ablestringer9063 I will because it just isn't.
oh look, you've made something up to get angry about
Not to mention gps based mandatory speed limiters.
@@AntMan-b8l An inherently sensible invention
@@GryphLane I agree, it could also be used in conjunction with the proposed pay per mile scheme.
I find hubnut vlogs to be very informative and level headed. Always looking from different perspectives and trying to be fair
Nice video Ian,
The best description of the way the introduction of the 20 limit was done
Is Cack Handed, having driven in your part of the world often I'm pleased to hear that hopefully it will be sorted out.
Why not 25 MPH? That's the speed limit in most American cities and residential areas. But for some reason, UK (and European) speed limits never seem to end in 5's, while most of ours do.
And to be honest I see a lot of UK roads with the 60 MPH national speed limit in situations where it is totally inappropriate and dangerous, such as narrow, winding roads with blind corners.
If you educate the driver properly then they don't need the sign to change to say when 60 mph or whatever isn't safe. 'Driving without due care and attention' also exists as a charge you can receive if you crash from not driving to the conditions regardless of the speed limit. If anyone needs the sign to tell them they can't drive at 60 mph on a single track road with high hedges and constant corners, then they shouldn't have got a licence to begin with. The elimination of the national 20 mph speed limit in 1930 didn't result in a massive spike in road deaths from the many completely uneducated drivers (most won't have had to pass a driving test to be on the road back then) when it wasn't replaced with anything, (making 100+ mph through residential areas and the like technically legal). Instead there were 800 fewer deaths after the elimination of all speed limits in 1931 here.
RUclips didn't give me a 'read more' option fro your comment for some reason, so I don't know what followed '...winding roads with blind...', so I don't know if you typed anything along these lines after that.
100% right. I am from Swansea by the way, we had the biggest amount of exemptions but we still got 20mph on some inappropriate roads, I do get responses back to me from my council and they are happy with the updated guidance. I asked for Mynydd Newydd road to be put back to 30 from the start and recently they have advertised a section of will be so i am happy and things will settle down when 20 is only on all appropriate roads and non appropriate roads get reverted back 🏴
Don't even think about Taking out A Honda Fireblade 918cc with the new limits, It's like Riding a Moped, just First Gear and your licence is Gone in 60 Seconds 🤣🙈 Just So Stupid and thanks for the Video ❤✌️
1:30 What they're not telling you is that in a few years time they'll use this as justification to grant planning permission for a new housing estate there. After all the speed limit is already lower, so it's already part of the village. If the speed limit is lowered and you think you're in the countryside, in many cases the area is not intended to be countryside for long.
who are "they"? and where did you get your crystal ball from?? You're making stuff up and then being upset about it
@@stewartellinson8846 'They' being local government. This is exactly what happened in our town in England. Sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder or have been caught out. 🙂
@@oldblueshirtguy can you cite some evidence please. Actual research.
@@stewartellinson8846 I can give you better than "research" I can give you evidence. It's actual government policy.
www.gov.uk/government/publications/setting-local-speed-limits/setting-local-speed-limits
@@stewartellinson8846 You cite some that it hasn't. Plenty of green belt which was tehn called brown belt which is now being built on. Maybe all those new houses are good for the environment?
We've had 20mph speed limits in Bristol since 2015. It's still very confusing as some continuous suburban roads have both 20mph and 30mph at various points. Just watch out for the balaclava kids on their 40mph electric scooters!
This was a good, balanced review of the subject. Here in Highland we have a Scottish Government-funded pilot scheme where all 30mph limits were reviewed and the majority reduced to 20 experimentally. Consideration is going on of which should become permanent. I expect some will move back to 30, but probably not all that many.
Well done Ian for a balanced, fair, sane, pragmatic approach to this topic. Speaking proper sense. Particularly around the people who believe it should only exist "near schools or hospitals" - it isn't the logical thinking they think it is. There do appear to have been some places (like those wider country roads) where it isn't quite right - but as you say, it's being corrected. Unfortunately many in the comments here just don't seem to be listening and would almost *rather* believe in this "war on motorists" nonsense.
Well done for tackling this again Ian. It's a thorny one because of, as you said, just how many people are vociferous in their opinions. I have rarely had so much internet bile thrown at me as when making comments on this subject.
Where I live,in Greater London,20 mph is the norm, as well as dual carriageways being reduced from 40 to 30. Ridiculous,these are not accident hot-spots! When saying 'the stats support the move from 30 to 20',that doesn't take in to account the fact that driving at 20 causes more polution,which affects people with breathing issues,which leads to premature deaths. So you are quoting one-sided stats. A point that is missed is that at 20, your journey is 50% longer,which more than compensates for less fuel being used to reach 20 than 30.
Please provide your peer-reviewed evidence that it causes more pollution.
@@HowardLeVert Please provide yours that it doesn't.
Where I live in Australia, there is a railway crossing in a 100kph zone. The road twists around and you can't actually do 100kph where you cross the railway line. In recent years a number of trucks have crashed at the crossing. (By taking it too fast) Now they have changed the speed limit to 80kph from 1 kilometre either side of the rail crossing. I don't disagree with the speed change itself but driving the extra 2ks just gives the police more room to book people speeding. Now the Locals are punished by the actions of 2 stupid truck drivers who don't even live in the area. Who comes up with these dumb ideas?
Excellent and objective review. I am a motorist, cyclist and pedestrian and I live in Cymru and it’s been proved to have been very effective in reducing injuries and collisions. It also the same across the UK, France and Spain in my experience.
I've done much driving in France. Their 20 mph (30km/h) limit is applied very sensibly outside schools and down narrow residential streets and is usually for short distances. Unlike Wales where they've blanket applied it even to straight roads that have no houses or schools.
@@DrFodIt’s not “blanket”, it’s “default”. The sooner Wales clamps down on the MENACE that is pedestrians and cyclists moving around in areas nowhere near houses and schools, the better! Who do they think they are? Pedestrians don’t even pay road tax!
Then how come Wales had the highest number of total road fatalities in 6 years? 🤔🤔
4:15 I don't disagree Ian but if a car hits you at 10 it's going to hurt a lot less than 20... We have to draw the line somewhere, for decades we drew it at 30, cars now are far better at stopping, most of them will even do it for you if you're not paying attention. I just can't see a realistic case for implementing this change now, especially as haphazardly as Drakeford and co. did.
Re. having another public enquiry, they had one before and completely ignored the public's opinion!
Cars might be better at stopping nowadays, but they're also hugely heavier - double the weight of the vehicle, you double the amount of energy imparted. Dropping the speed from 30 to 20 reduces the kinetic energy by more than half.
There is good evidence, research done by reputable bodies, that the level of injury and death in a pedestrian/vehicle collision rises geometrically with increasing speed. It does not make a case for reducing it further because the safety benefits are not there. This may seem counterintuitive but it is correct.
@MrMatStace that's a good point, and I don't disagree, however modern cars are designed with pedestrian safety in mind, none of those oldschool bonnet ornaments and popup headlights.
Ultimately I don't think it detracts from my main point which is that the line must be drawn somewhere. I agree regarding potential energy, but there would again be far less at 10mph versus 20mph.
Any speed limit is ultimately fairly arbitrary, I think the Welsh gov would've been wise to stick with the one that hasn't cost tens of millions to implement poorly
20mph would be easier to follow if everyone drove sensibly powered 2CVs and Kei cars instead of family SUVs that go 0-60 in 5 seconds or less. Excess power makes drivers more impatient.
@jonahwhale9047And they will then promptly go out of business becuase of lack of sales. Wrong tree has been thouroghly barked, its the consumers or legislation that needs to change first.
@jonahwhale9047 Well yes, it is indeed quite simple.
Personally I would like people to drive around mostly in what would be effectively quadricycles.
But a lot of people think its in any way up to the manufacturers, and your post was worded in a way that gave of the same sentiment, whereas in reality it is not. In fact, it could be argued that at least for US manufacturers it would be literally llegal to produce anything similar to what you or I wish for.
who wants to drive crap cars like that though rubbish to drive and severely lacking in safety
So you want more injuries/deaths on the roads then? Because cars without any pedestrian impact in the design, no seatbelts/airbags, no abs, poor suspension and tyres are the best way to cause it - as clearly shown over many years.
Walk infront of a modern suv and you have many inches of plastic and foam to soften the blow. Walk infront of a 2CV and after the bumper smashes your shins you have plenty of hard and sharp bits to look forward to as you bounce over it. Thats if we completely ignore how much more likely it is to hit you in the first place because braking and swering aren't anywhere near as doable.
Oh and "excess power" is a non-issue. Pretty much every car made in the last 100 years will easily break a 20mph limit so its more a case of how hard you press the pedal.
@@siraff4461 r/woosh...
Top marks to you Ian you are discussing matters that effect people now. Go to the top of the class,💯
Im glad you got on foot and talk about other people perspectives.
Bring back the law requiring a man with a red flag to walk front of every car.
🤣🤔
👍
I have a B&B in Carmarthen and nearly every morning at breakfast there is a conversation complaining about the speed limits. I honestly believe it is having a negative effect on tourism. These aren’t boy racers either, they’re mostly pensioners.
pensioners LOVE complaining. They're the worst group for it. Young people are often much more thoughtful.
What seems a waste of money to me and potentially to catch people from outside of Wales out, is the decision to change the rules regarding repeater signs. Everywhere else in the UK, streetlights and no signage means 30mph yet in Wales they spent a fortune removing the 20mph repeater signs to add 30mph repeater signs in other areas. What a waste of money, in my opinion.
Anyone in NI care to chime in? Rural areas an hour out of the metro areas of Belfast and such? Haven't been there in ages but friends there say they have no complaints of imposed sp limits.
As an outsider looking in, 20mph is a very good idea in some places. But just changing the default speedlimit doesn't work, it requires tailor-made decisions.
In the Netherlands (where I live) it's 30km/h in residential areas and the larger roads for through traffic are 50km/h. But it's always looked at beforehand if the speed fits the road and the surrounding area. To all those people who think it's a war on motorists, the Netherlands must be the ultimate nightmare to drive. But it isn't, it's utterly lovely.
Is driving at 20mph while talking to camera safer than at 30mph while fully focussed at the job in hand?
I have spoken to four Police Officers in Blackwood regarding the 20 speed limit. They all said that 30 is fine and disliked the new 20 limit. I have been driving for just over 50 years. Most of my motoring has been in towns and cities with a 30 limit. Despite this I haven't had a collision with any other vehicle or a pedestrian. I therefore agree with the Police Officers that 30 is fine.
@jonahwhale9047 I have witnessed many road accidents over the last 50 years. None of them were due to speeding. They were all due to crap driving, lack of concentration and basically careless driving. I am not magically protected from having accidents however, I drive very carefully with constant care and attention. Now if you think my driving technique is inadequate and I should have had many accidents, please explain exactly why I haven't.
@jonahwhale9047 You still haven't explained why I haven't had an accident in over 50 years.
@jonahwhale9047 I don't exceed the speed limits which might be a contributory factor in me not having an accident in over 50 years. Do you think it would be a good idea to reduce the speed limit to zero to completely stop all accidents? I assume you do.
Good piece 👍
As fellow West Waliens we visit the lovely New Quay occasionally - will now keep an eye out for a 2CV driven by HubNut (doing 20mph of course) and give a thumbs up 👍
Nice and rational as usual Ian. What you said about Ellie not liking 20mph is the same as our T4 due to the lack of gears (much easier in the EV). We've just had a series of 20mph zones introduced in Cambridgeshire that apparently had a public consultation so I suspect we'll be following the experience in Wales.
I don’t agree that it’s not a war on motorists. Think of the changes we have seen over the last few years. As well as ever reducing speed limits, we have seen a massive increase in car park penalties, anpr cameras in pub and supermarket car parks and the penalties for infractions are stupendous. Reduced road access to towns, bus lane cameras, box junction cameras. All these things increase anxiety when driving. Not to mention the diabolical ulez schemes… I can’t imagine anything more stupid than someone having to sit in a speed awareness class for the horrendous crime of driving at 26mph in a previous 30mph zone.
As for feeling safer as a pedestrian, nobody was crying out danger ten years ago. As for pedestrians being hit, stupid changes to the highway code recently, almost encouraged pedestrians and cyclists to put themselves in harms way.
As for people doing 30mph in a new 20mph zone..I don’t agree that it is stupid. Before the change, no one would have noticed.
The assumption that many have is that all motorists are reckless and need to be controlled. This is an insult to the motoring community. Police on the streets, as there were years ago, are a far better judge that mandated limits, cameras and ruinous fines.
Finally: some common sense in these replies. I applaud this!
If you took away speed limits, you'd soon see just how reckless people are. Limits are an ugly way to control drivers but they are generally effective. More Police would be a good thing though.
@@SteveWard-f8b Where? Not here I'm afraid
@@andrewlucas6214 But most motorists are reckless. They don't judge what speed a road is safe to drive at because they're in too much of a selfish hurry to get somewhere rather than just leaving earlier.
And yes pedestrians were crying out danger ten years ago; but knuckleheads like you weren't paying any attention. It's not about putting themselves in harms way. It's about wanting to get somewhere without having to rely on motorised transport.
We need to change this habit of car dependency as a country. But the only way that'll happen is for those road users to feel safe to use an alternative.
I live 4 miles from work. From here I need two buses to get into the office. The other only option is to cycle down the side of a two-lane NSL dual carriageway. It just isn't safe to do anything but drive and that isn't good enough, actually.
given that car - related infrastructure swallows vast amounts of public money and cars dominate much of our trasnsport thinking the idea of a "war on motorists" is laughable. It's some very minor changes which people who have got their own way their whole lives are moaning about.
On a recent visit to Wales I found that I quickly adapted to the 20mph limit and didn't find it to be an inconvenience. Unfortunately there did seem to be a considerable number of motorists who couldn't bare to drive so slowly and resorted to dangerous overtaking manouvers in built up areas to get past me (and continue speeding). This happened four times in the space of six days. I wondered if such impatience might actually cause more accidents but, as you say, the statistics suggest it's having a positive effect.
Those performing the demonstrative overtakes wouldn’t have been sticking to 30mph anyway. I’ve noticed it’s not a prevalent as it was at the beginning, but it still happens.
I cannot remotely fathom how anyone would actually believe that 30mph is an unsafe speed.
I've never heard anyone say. That bloke was going 30mph when there talking about speed
Are you saying getting hit as a pedestrian at 30 is safe ? well there's a simple test you could do, with a friend on a quiet road, or better still on private property, tell us how it didn't hurt eh.
Who said anything about being hit? It's an exceptional safe speed for most places and situations on normal roads
@jonahwhale9047 so if you are on a road that has a speed limit of 40 mph in your opinion you will kill everything that is in your way blindly
@jonahwhale9047 so you're telling me that these 30 mph speed limits which were there all along were treacherously high and dangerous. You were afraid to drive that fast, and so you drove 20 instead.
It should have gone to a public consultation first. For those of us who travel big distances daily, it's an absolute and unnecessary menace. The more that are reversed the better!
There was a consultation. The results of it were ignored...
@@HubNut And despite not being against the introduction of a 20mph speed limit to replace many 30 mph limits, that's my 'beef' with the whole saga.
The road at the beginning of the report was very similar to my experience this summer. A large main road with almost no pedestrians and a decent sized footpath. Plus a 20mph average speed camera system. Not in the built up area but on the outskirts of the town where I imagine it made a lot of money.
The issue where I live. My village is on the border, just, in England. We now have a large increase in traffic because people cut through our village to avoid the 20 mph limit in Wales. I think that the 20 mph is a good idea but has been badly implemented. Local councils should have had more decision making about which roads should have been changed.
A very well balanced view and analysis Ian. Thanks for sharing.
As accidents have reduced, have your insurance premiums come down?
I wait to see...
In our village the signs say 20Mph but the road between the signs still says 30Mph!! The speed limit changes along single stretches of road are an absolute nightmare. Carmarthen to Burry Port is the same, ruins what would be a nice road. Spend more time watching for speed limit changes than you do the road and what's around you!
There's roads in Edinburgh with a 20mph but still has the 30mph inforstructure ie.flashing signs still there 😂😂
That's the issue, lowering speed limits where it makes sense is fine (and should be done) but lowering them just for the sake of it will make everyone ignore those limits and probably also ignore them at places where those speed limits are justified. Amsterdam is a prime example of this, lowering the speed limit to 30km/h, even on wide main roads. The result is that now everyone is ignoring the speed limit. Of course the government is now doubling down and installing speed camera's but a road needs to be designed well in the first place, if the speed limit is 30km/h you should naturally be already driving that speed limit. (in the Netherlands it is even required by law for 30km/h zones to be designed so that people will naturally be inclined to drive no more than 30km/h) If the speed limit is 30km/h but it looks like a freeway well... people will treat it as such. Just putting a sign there will do nothing.
A 20mph speed limit is appropriate in some cases. You can certainly argue that it makes the roads safer and back it up with published statistics. However you could use that logic to say well if 20mph is saving x amount of accidents, surely 10mph will save even more and so on. With all the money spent on this and the possible reversals of the speed limit in some cases, perhaps the money would have been better spent doing public service safety programs again like they did in the 70's/80's? Things like the Green Cross Code come to mind.
I live in Cardiff and have no problem with the 20 limit, and in reality it makes very little difference to journey times, and those that get angry and beligerent at the limit are probably not the kind of drivers we want on our roads anyway. But point taken, it could have been done with a little more consideration about certain areas. But on the whole I welcome the change.
Well spoken Mr. Hubnut. You and I are very different men, but I very much appreciate what you are trying to convey here.
I like this video format with the different spots/locations on the same topic.
Here in Prestatyn just about everyone ignores it, except where it obviously makes sense to proceed cautiously. Cars, taxis , buses even police cars all drive as if it is what it should be; a 30 mph limit. We will not give into tyranny.
Twenty is plenty as here in sunny South East London we have the same issue of 20 to 30 then maybe faster sections of road 😞 then near me the South Circular is 20 mph nice and wide road with no housing alongside it's pavement just open common land then turn of onto a road leading towards central London it's 30mph passing a school several pedestrian crossing points housing and shops facing the road !
Re your comment on NHS waiting times, unfortunately a lot people will only shout and complain about things that affects them, and not the people around them. A seemingly very self-centred society, sadly
I got a speeding fine on a massive A road up by Prestatyn (A548) last month. I was doing 29mph. It was wider than the M6 and barely any cars on the road. Iv never had any issues with speeding in 20 years until then. 29mph on an A road! Absolutely ridiculous if you ask me! Luckily i got to do the course for £92.
I didn't mind 20 when I visited Wales earlier this year. I think the worst instance is when the change is from 60 to 20 w no warning, and instances of that shd be reviewed. You are very right in saying that the number of limit changes is now extreme.
Thank you for a well-considered commentary.
I'm not even in your country but i think you'll get flak for bringing up this topic, it's a no win argument either way, the one's for it/against it will argue till the cows come home. I worked in a sign factory and the thing we always said back then was "signs breed signs"
There's a very simple rule in the book that says drive at a speed you can see to be clear and if we used that, common sense would prevail 🤔👍🇮🇪
Sadly, common sense on the roads is in short supply. That's why we have speed limits.
I couldn't argue with anything said here...perfect. And it was like you read my mind going past the Fiesta!!
The amount of traffic breaking the speed limit will have gone up massively. The blanked 20mph has brought the law into disrepute
How many times do you people have to be told, it’s NOT a blanket 20mph 🤦🏼♂️
I live in Birmingham (UK). There's a epidemic of road deaths caused by speeding drivers. 20mph is s good thing imo as long as it's enforced which of course it never is.
It's alright for you, most of your fleet won't go above 20.😉
Ha!
@@HubNutThe Forester says 'oi!'
Some locations may get reviewed but then the Welsh government will say "fine, ok" but then will say that the local council responsible for those locations will be expected to pay todwards reverting all the signage back to 30. As councils are all penniless, the changes won't happen.
I couldn't agree with you more about public engagement Ian Thousands of people stuck outside of A&E in ambulances while the fantastic NHS nurses and doctors do their best and public dont mention But touch your car and the pitchforks are outside the county and city halls !
I, from the USA, have been driving in Scotland and northern England for the last week. I agree that 20 MPG urban/town speed limits in parts of the UK is foolish. I tend to agree where very narrow streets, lots of pedestrians, but many are very annoying. Perhaps 25 MPG, typical in the USA in such situations would be a better compromise.
25mph would have been a more sensible speed limit
20 Mph : Kurb crawling 😊
Having just listened to Chris Boardman talking about active travel, the 20mph limit was mentioned. He said that he did feel for the people of Wales who have been a bit of a guinea pig for the rest of the UK in trying some of these ideas out. Hopefully the latest consultation will improve things, but great to see less people being killed and injured.
Many parts of the UK have had 20 zones for years, even decades. Welsh are not guinea pigs at all! 30kmh zones are common in many civilised countries as well.
A point well put across on many points. Common sense should always be used in regards to speed limits, its the maximum speed in that zone not the target. When I visited Wales in the summer not only the twenty but the implementation of 30mph on roundabouts an appropriate speed is actually needed which might be less than the post 30mph. Money spent wisely on education may have been money better spent.
I don't have a problem with the 20mph speed limit. In fact driving through a place like Bala any thing above is asking for trouble. I agree with the point you made about the unnecessarily long distance in some places before the limit alters back. I don't live in Wales BTW.
Agree with your comment about the gearing when driving at 20mph. Seriously infuriating between 2nd and 3rd gear, especially when the road gradients change or driver in front is crap!
We have the 20mph limits all over Scotland. The problem is they are not enforced. Police Scotland say they were not consulted by the councils ,do not have the manpower,and will not enforce the limit. ( with the exception of a school area). This makes the limit redundant , I have been overtaken multiple times doing 20mph. When you do travel at 20mph people sit 10feet off your bumper which does not make you feel very relaxed.
I am all for 20 zones in town centres , and accident black spots. But without enforcement the most dangerous drivers do as they please, and by overtaking cars ,end up going faster than when it was a 30 limit.
That's ridiculous. They're definitely being enforced in Wales, though sadly there are not enough Police to actually make folk behave quite often.
Agree, if it can be shown to have 1 fewer incident/accident, it's here to stay.
Some of the limits may get 'tweaked' otherwise, they are here to stay, end of.
Thats a fair point about the gearing. My old vectra c 1.8 manual, rover 75 cdti auto hated 20mph zones, yet my 206sw 1.4i happily plods along at 20 with a low rev on the engine. I changed my mind about 20 zones when a child ran out infront of me within a bonnets length. If I had been doing 30 I would of no doubt hit him. But doing 20 (road was clear so would of proabably done 30) I stopped just short of the kid. Yes I did shout at the kid for being an idiot for running out without looking behind a van, but also told him how lucky he was because of the speed limit change. Do see him walking up and down the road nearly daily and he says hello all the time, and also saw him hold his friend back from running across without looking.
I saw a teenager hit by a car at 30mph when walking home from school in the 70s and how far he was catapulted. Luckily he got up - seemingly uninjured - and was more worried where one of his shoes had gone but the driver looked ready for a coronary. The fact I can recount this so clearly nearly fifty years later says a lot.
Great video as always. Regarding the lack of engagement with the A&E situation it may be because until people directly experience the situation it tends to be ignored.
Thankfully only a small % of the population visit A&E in any given day but tens of thousands experience the 20 M.P.H. restriction so the result is more vocal protest.
Yet I bet almost everyone has an A&E horror story in the family or amongst friends.
most (if not all) of the people complaining about the 20 limits don't live on them, I can see very few residents wanting to speed up traffic past their houses. What would be good to see though is in those 20 MPH limits the removal of speed humps etc.
I do agree that there are some stretches with no houses or pedestrians that should return to a 30, and the overall numbers of speed limit changes going between villages does get tiring, but there are also some of the villages where it is a 40 (or higher) through the village that never feels right.
Here in Germany, especially around my place in the Ruhraerea they have introduced a lot of senceless 30 km/h speed limits in big cities. In Dortmund for example there are big four lane main roads where those days was a normal 50 km/h limit. The reasons that there are 30 km/h limits now are, air polution and noise reduction. The thing is, that there you find so many traffic lights, that you nearly never can reach 50 km/h, especially in the rushours. In the night it is absolute senceless to keep 30 km/h on those big roads. Noise reduction or keeping the air clean couldn't be serious arguments. When I'm driving there with my Kia Sorento 2.2 CRDI 16V and automatic gear it doesn't produce more noise or polution, doesn't matter wether 30 or 50 km/h. When I take my 1998 Mazda 626 2.0 16V for the same way, it produces more noise and polution at 30 km/h than at 50 km/h. It's a manual gear and it is no problem to drive 50 km/h in the fourth gear with 1.500 RPM. In a 30 km/h limit zone I can't use the third gear, because I can't drive with 1.200 RPM. So I have to use the second gear with 1.800 RPM. And that means more emissions and more noise and I spend more time under those conditions in the zone than with 50 km/h. 30 km/h zones make lot of sence in small residential roads like my one or in front of schools, hospitals or homes for aged. In some places there are 30 km/,h limits only for a period of time, for example between 7.00 am and 4.00 pm in front of schools. I'm fine with a regulation like that. In Colounge and Dortmund they have introduced 30 km/h limits only for the night after 22.00 h on their big ringroads, to avoid illegal street races, which caused a lot of serious accidents in the past sometimes with letal consequences. Senceless speed limits you find sometimes on wide open roads without any obstacles or danger of people or cyclists cross the road. Especially often at those places they put speed cameras just to rip of the drivers because they now, that most of them don't see a reason to keep the limit there. Interesting to see that in your country are existing the same problems. 😊
Here in Oz our slowdown limit is 40Kph or 25mph. As Ian would remember, whenever you drive through the smaller towns in New Zealand the limit becomes 50Kph which is 30mph so it would look like this is just falling in line with other Commonwealth countries 🤷
hi please lets get back to the green x code and have everyone responsible for there own safety driving and walking so many just walk out looking at there mobile if the car driver is doing the same bang! thats not an accident they must both take the blame
Locally we have had 20mph since the start of the year in Herne Bay. Very much pro the new limits, although the Mondeo 'can't do' 20, same as Elly. Locals have taken to painting over the limits, which also seems a self-defeating form of protest.
We've got 20mph limits all over essex.
There’s far more pressing issues to legislate for in Wales than messing about with speed limit I would have thought
You got it right, 20mph is a positive move around making Wales a better and safer place to live, but there are areas where 20mph is extended or used in places that seem just bonkers. Your use of the word "clumsy" is an excellent description. It has been a complete mess, I also know of many areas of fast A and B roads going into a built up area (20mph) where 30mph are used as a buffer zone, this is problematic as often this zone is taken from the faster limit and again is extended a very long way out, this seems to create a disconnect with the road and what the speed limit is, thus creating as disengagement with speed limits - people get used to ignoring the the 30mph and then just blow thought the subsequent 20mph zone. I hope in time these issues can be worked out as without this the complaints of the 20mph will be low and punitive action will not help it will only push away from positive engagement, it is far better to get drivers to see the need and be on side so they slow down at there own will.
Expect your civil liberties to be eroded further as time goes by. It’ll no doubt happen here in the US too but for now, a road trip is still a road trip - yunno … the ones where you look out the window most of the time rather than your speedo. It’s so relaxing
We regularly have people doing 40 in the 20 zone in the villages leading to ours (just over the border into Chester), but prior to the change across Wales, they were doing 40 - 50 in the 30mph zone. I do believe the blanket approach was not the best and that the changes should have been made based on pedestrian risk.
I went to collect a package today and noticed that there's a speed display there today that wasn't there yesterday. Located so near the speed limit sign that it angrily flashes red at you even when you're still far enough away that the lower limit doesn't even apply yet...
I've seen a few of those. Some of them are blinding at night. Helpful.
Here in Canada, the equivalent of the 20mph limit has been common for decades and motorists comply with it without complaint. In general our speed limits are much lower than those of the UK overall anyway; although motorists here frequently drive above those limits, except in 30kph zones. Because most of the cars sold here in Canada are automatics, this is perhaps a little easier to manage. Personally I have found this hard to achieve in a manual driven car, because the neither the gearing or the engine design is intended to sit at such low speeds. I think that's the problem, modern cars are simply not meant to drive at such low speeds. Modern cars, unlike cars of the fifties, are designed to drive much quicker and these very slow speeds can cause issues with the engine systems and catalytic converters, which don't work as they should when a vehicle is driven too slowly, and therein lies some of the problem. Anyhow, that's just my twopennth worth.
Driving at 35 mph in a 30 mph area I am regularly overtaken, so I have little hope that 20 mph limits would be respected in SE England.