The theme of the series isn't about how power corrupts, nor was Tony ever truly good. It's more a reconstruction of the idea of a Complete Monster and, simultaneously, of what makes Superman so heroic. Tony grew up largely unloved by his various foster parents who didn't know how to raise him, and so became narcicistic. His final foster parents did love him, but instilled within him a martyr complex, pushing him into superheroics and believing they were the only way for him to be loved. He saved lives only for the adoration it brought him (not even realizing it), and every mean comment in a cheering crowd he heard, every ungrateful person he saved, irked him. He snapped when a terrible mistake he made (due to his inability to handle criticism) nearly went public, so he killed the only people who knew, then, realizing he would never be loved by the entire human race, decided to torture and exterminate them out of spite. The climax of the series makes it clear that nothing in his past excuses his actions, and true superheroes like Qubit and Max Damage do good things for their own sake, not because of what people will think of them. Word of God is that it's a story about someone who decided to be a superhero without being up to it psychologically.
I think there's room for both of these to be the case. I think you very clearly articulate a really solid viewpoint, and Tony was ultimately psychologically weak, but that weakness made him vulnerable to being overwhelmed by the power he possessed and the same thing happened to Survivor. I feel like this is kind of a Grace versus Good Deeds debate, which I don't think we need to pigeonhole the series in. Mark Waid is very good at having multiple layers to his work and different things are going to stand out to different people. When I revisit this for my roundup video when I collect the third batch of 50, I will try to mention your comment because I think that they are extremely accurate in terms of themes represented in the work.
True, I remember reading the notes about the story after I read it. He really wasn't stable during his career, it was more that he was crushed under the weight of the events unfoiling around him rather than him turning evil because of his power. He accidentally killed people and tried to cover it up and when he told his Lois Lane his identity, she tried to reveal it on national news practically seconds later Still I like this take that he genuinely wanted to do good even though the story shows evidence for it being a search for approval and adoration, I feel people can be complex enough to want both, at least before he went all Homelander. It's ironic because Plutonian in this story is essentially the realized version of Homelander's threat to Maeve in season 3, "I'd prefer to be loved but if I can't I am a-okay being feared."
With all of these evil versions of Superman, they operate with the premise of what it would be like if a normal human had Superman's power. Even Injustice Superman is like that. The true Superman is someone who doesnt just have unfathomable power but also an unfathomable morality to match it
I loved the series! Classic Waid's one of my favorite writers. Like, his attention to detail is like my exact level of pedantry... and I appreciate it!
No, the running theme is that sacrifice will produce guilt, grievances, and resentment. And although the author understands this he still believes in the morality of sacrifice and hopes in the end that two boys work things out. How little he knows.
I'm starting to really regret saying "the theme" instead of "a theme", because I don't disagree with alternate interpretations of what the focus of the piece is. I just think it's pretty long and that certain characters are dealing with different themes and there's a lot of stuff going on which is a strength of the book and of Waid as a writer
I want to read/buy this title,really tired of SUPES in comic book form any way.Want to read about a flawed hero,someone more human acting and not-PERFECT.Supes is pretty boring,OP,no faults to over come,no failings either.I liked the way Supes/Clark Kent was handled in Bruce Timm's animated series of Superman.Supes powers were reduced a lot. LOL. GOOD job on the video.
Sure he can give himself superpowers but Superman was able to stop Mandriaks missiles and beat world forger who gave Batman a suit which can turn thoughts into reality
A vid that was worth the wait. Tony is arguably the strongest of the Superman Analogues with the exceptions of Captain Hero (A Superman with Toon Force), and The Last Son of Alcatraz (After becoming The Horned Serpent).
I always meant to check out this series. I collected a lot of Mark Waid's Flash run and fell in love with his writing. He made several Great Characters for DC and introduced the Speed Force which is now standard lore for every flash comic. I always heard this was a great work by him too.
It's a really fun book! Waid's a writer that I've always really enjoyed. He finds a way to nail a secondary reasons to care about a work beyond the initial elevator pitch!
@@uzii6540 that's fine but the reason I don't like it is how they just use it as a get out of jail free card for the Flash and give him random abilities. Like now, he's not just a superfast guy who uses it in interesting ways, he has electrokinesis, he can trap people in the Speed Force, he can make constructs out of its energy, and the lore behind it just gets so convoluted and nonsensical. Its why I prefer Quicksilver's power set.
@@ProjektTaku Yea that extra BS Is what I meant by recently. And quicksilvers abilities have never made sense to me. How does he he move people out the way without hurting people if there’s nothing like the speed force in his verse.
And the funny thing is his powers are not actually physical like Superman but psionic whish made him even more powerful. That is until Superman got his god level power boost in Warworld.
It's wild how powerful Tony is! It makes me think about my head canon for Marvel's Hyperion: He's an amnesiac Eternal and he unconsciously augments his strength and speed psionically! I freaking love it! It feels like a 5th dimensional imp approach to Superman!
@@certainpovmedia This character always made me wonder what would it be like if Superboy Connor Kent would truly realize and develop his full psionic potential.
@@ricky865 totally! The little tastes we got with Match, Black Zero, and Sins of Youth Grown Up Kon El all hinted at what we'd see him get... Then Johns got Titans and it became "well, I guess he's half Superman" which for the record can work but just wasn't what the character had been... And we stopped seeing that character advance in such a way!
@@certainpovmedia Well atleast in his new miniseries: Superboy Man of Tomorrow he is actually using his Telekinetic powers again in combination with his kriptonian ones. But for me personally the best part is that his current incarnation is actually a combination of the Pre New 52 version of him with the New 52 version of him wish possessed vastly more powerful telekinetic poweres in comparison to before.
@@stg4theglitchog768 I don't think it was ever addressed in the series since it kinda fell apart at the end. Probably something about being an elevated being or something. The main Hyperion looked human because he was actually an Eternal.
Yeah but i still think the is no official Elseworld story about Kal El looking more alien and him been raised in the human minority, like he should be, like the only official story about a more alien was one where the Kents killed him out of fear when they found him, why don't they take that idea and expand on it, telling the story of a more alien Kal El who lives in the minority and saw people do terrible things to one another.
The theme of the series isn't about how power corrupts, nor was Tony ever truly good. It's more a reconstruction of the idea of a Complete Monster and, simultaneously, of what makes Superman so heroic. Tony grew up largely unloved by his various foster parents who didn't know how to raise him, and so became narcicistic. His final foster parents did love him, but instilled within him a martyr complex, pushing him into superheroics and believing they were the only way for him to be loved. He saved lives only for the adoration it brought him (not even realizing it), and every mean comment in a cheering crowd he heard, every ungrateful person he saved, irked him. He snapped when a terrible mistake he made (due to his inability to handle criticism) nearly went public, so he killed the only people who knew, then, realizing he would never be loved by the entire human race, decided to torture and exterminate them out of spite. The climax of the series makes it clear that nothing in his past excuses his actions, and true superheroes like Qubit and Max Damage do good things for their own sake, not because of what people will think of them. Word of God is that it's a story about someone who decided to be a superhero without being up to it psychologically.
I think there's room for both of these to be the case. I think you very clearly articulate a really solid viewpoint, and Tony was ultimately psychologically weak, but that weakness made him vulnerable to being overwhelmed by the power he possessed and the same thing happened to Survivor. I feel like this is kind of a Grace versus Good Deeds debate, which I don't think we need to pigeonhole the series in. Mark Waid is very good at having multiple layers to his work and different things are going to stand out to different people. When I revisit this for my roundup video when I collect the third batch of 50, I will try to mention your comment because I think that they are extremely accurate in terms of themes represented in the work.
True, I remember reading the notes about the story after I read it. He really wasn't stable during his career, it was more that he was crushed under the weight of the events unfoiling around him rather than him turning evil because of his power.
He accidentally killed people and tried to cover it up and when he told his Lois Lane his identity, she tried to reveal it on national news practically seconds later
Still I like this take that he genuinely wanted to do good even though the story shows evidence for it being a search for approval and adoration, I feel people can be complex enough to want both, at least before he went all Homelander. It's ironic because Plutonian in this story is essentially the realized version of Homelander's threat to Maeve in season 3, "I'd prefer to be loved but if I can't I am a-okay being feared."
With all of these evil versions of Superman, they operate with the premise of what it would be like if a normal human had Superman's power. Even Injustice Superman is like that. The true Superman is someone who doesnt just have unfathomable power but also an unfathomable morality to match it
I just read all of Irredeemable, after watching this video. I love a good fall from grace/heel turn. And this one was epic.
This was so worth the wait thanks case your vids are great
Aw, thanks, man!
Been waiting for this one. Irredeemable was awesome!
I loved the series! Classic Waid's one of my favorite writers. Like, his attention to detail is like my exact level of pedantry... and I appreciate it!
No, the running theme is that sacrifice will produce guilt, grievances, and resentment. And although the author understands this he still believes in the morality of sacrifice and hopes in the end that two boys work things out. How little he knows.
I'm starting to really regret saying "the theme" instead of "a theme", because I don't disagree with alternate interpretations of what the focus of the piece is. I just think it's pretty long and that certain characters are dealing with different themes and there's a lot of stuff going on which is a strength of the book and of Waid as a writer
THE SUPERMAN, GONE NUTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Love the character, and the comic he appeared in. I know people are tired of the Evil Superman trope, but this one is done quite well
I want to read/buy this title,really tired of SUPES in comic book form any way.Want to read about a flawed hero,someone more human acting and not-PERFECT.Supes is pretty boring,OP,no faults to over come,no failings either.I liked the way Supes/Clark Kent was handled in Bruce Timm's animated series of Superman.Supes powers were reduced a lot. LOL. GOOD job on the video.
Sure he can give himself superpowers but Superman was able to stop Mandriaks missiles and beat world forger who gave Batman a suit which can turn thoughts into reality
And even Manhattan wasn't able to erase superman from existence
Superman has resisted reality warping at many instances
Superman is able to fight with martian manhunter who can out thought perpetua(creator of omniverse)
A vid that was worth the wait.
Tony is arguably the strongest of the Superman Analogues with the exceptions of Captain Hero (A Superman with Toon Force), and The Last Son of Alcatraz (After becoming The Horned Serpent).
Oh, thanks, mate! I'm glad you liked it! The Plutonian is incredible as a concept!
Indeed especially with his end.
I always meant to check out this series. I collected a lot of Mark Waid's Flash run and fell in love with his writing. He made several Great Characters for DC and introduced the Speed Force which is now standard lore for every flash comic. I always heard this was a great work by him too.
It's a really fun book! Waid's a writer that I've always really enjoyed. He finds a way to nail a secondary reasons to care about a work beyond the initial elevator pitch!
I actually despise the speed force so much.
@@ProjektTakuI know I’m a year late but why lol I don’t like the stuff they’ve been doing recently with it but it’s a good concept.
@@uzii6540 that's fine but the reason I don't like it is how they just use it as a get out of jail free card for the Flash and give him random abilities. Like now, he's not just a superfast guy who uses it in interesting ways, he has electrokinesis, he can trap people in the Speed Force, he can make constructs out of its energy, and the lore behind it just gets so convoluted and nonsensical. Its why I prefer Quicksilver's power set.
@@ProjektTaku Yea that extra BS Is what I meant by recently. And quicksilvers abilities have never made sense to me. How does he he move people out the way without hurting people if there’s nothing like the speed force in his verse.
The Plutonian could easily be Brandon from Brightburn.
@@ramonantoniodejuanbennett6239 very similar vibes
Fantastic Plutonian video he is a phenomenal evil Superman
Oh thank you!
@@certainpovmedia Don’t mention it !
And the funny thing is his powers are not actually physical like Superman but psionic whish made him even more powerful. That is until Superman got his god level power boost in Warworld.
It's wild how powerful Tony is! It makes me think about my head canon for Marvel's Hyperion: He's an amnesiac Eternal and he unconsciously augments his strength and speed psionically! I freaking love it! It feels like a 5th dimensional imp approach to Superman!
@@certainpovmedia
This character always made me wonder what would it be like if Superboy Connor Kent would truly realize and develop his full psionic potential.
@@ricky865 totally! The little tastes we got with Match, Black Zero, and Sins of Youth Grown Up Kon El all hinted at what we'd see him get... Then Johns got Titans and it became "well, I guess he's half Superman" which for the record can work but just wasn't what the character had been... And we stopped seeing that character advance in such a way!
@@certainpovmedia
Well atleast in his new miniseries: Superboy Man of Tomorrow he is actually using his Telekinetic powers again in combination with his kriptonian ones. But for me personally the best part is that his current incarnation is actually a combination of the Pre New 52 version of him with the New 52 version of him wish possessed vastly more powerful telekinetic poweres in comparison to before.
@@ricky865 that's good to hear. My comics are piling up since we had the baby, but hoping to catch up soon!
I think a real life Superman would have had a childhood similar to Homelander but she/he would be afraid of what humans can do to him/her.
Kinda like the Supreme Power version of Hyperion, too!
Why doesn't Supreme Power Hyperion look like an Alien, like The Child of Hope & Loss.
@@stg4theglitchog768 I don't think it was ever addressed in the series since it kinda fell apart at the end. Probably something about being an elevated being or something. The main Hyperion looked human because he was actually an Eternal.
Yeah but i still think the is no official Elseworld story about Kal El looking more alien and him been raised in the human minority, like he should be, like the only official story about a more alien was one where the Kents killed him out of fear when they found him, why don't they take that idea and expand on it, telling the story of a more alien Kal El who lives in the minority and saw people do terrible things to one another.
You should do a video on Samaritan from Astro City.
I suppose Homelander from the Boys as well.
Both are on the list!
Is the Samaritan on your list for future analog videos?
Sure is! I love Astro City! - Case
You should do Alpha One from DCs The Mighty and Astonish Man from The End League.
Im going back to all your videos and making comments.
Appreciate it!
@@certainpovmedia 😮👍
This was good.
Please tell me, have you already done one about Omni Man? It screams to be done by you, if you haven't. 😮
I did Invincible already, but held off on Omniman at the time. He's coming soon though
@certainpovmedia9500 , awesome and cooL! Good to know! Do go all out on his powers.