Oddly enough, the phrase "Happy Holidays" started within the Christian Church as "Happy Holy Days", because there are many holy days between early December and early January. But I'm glad that it also now stands for multiple holy days for many faiths at that time of the year.
@@c.lineofficial because not all sect celebrate all of those holidays, evangelicals are much less likely to celebrate the Christmas season after Christmas Day like the 12 days of Christmas.
@@kentfrederick8929 As a Jew, I can confirm this. I grew up in a town that was 90% Jewish and I can hardly keep track of the number of adults I knew who were lawyers. I think I met an advertising exec, a textbook publisher, a teacher, a doctor, a professor, a psychologist, an HR rep, and a thousand lawyers. Haha
That old "candy cane is a symbol of Jesus" trope is pure fiction. In the olden days, Christmas presents were simpler and smaller than they are now. Gifts of fruit, sweet treats, little trinkets were hung on Christmas trees as decorations and for visitors to take. Candy canes are hooked at one end to make them easy to hang on a Christmas tree. The person who invented the candy cane (yes, candy canes are about 100 years old) said the stripes are a marketing gimmick that brought in buyers. Their candy canes looked prettier and more festive because of the colored stripes, so they sold more candy at the holidays. There is no hint of Jesus in the real story of the candy cane.
Yes. I'm a Christian (Catholic) myself, and I already knew that the stripes in the candycanes were just gimmicks since it also brings extra flavour other than just plain vanilla (and for the kids of course, they love the designs of the canes).
Uh, no? I mean candy sticks are an old gift, but the curved top, made to look like a shepherds cane, was an idea by a bishop who was trying to keep kids quiet during the long christmas service, AND justify giving them sweets during church.
The "X" in Xmas is literally saying Christmas bc the X is the letter for Christ in Greek. It's def not pushing Jesus out of His birthday. It's the ignorance of those who don't understand the origins of language etc. Also, Santa is based on a Bishop named Nicholas of Myra who used to leave gifts for poor families in his area so they could have dowries for their daughters to be able to marry. He would also drop gold down chimneys and legend has it that the gold fell into someone's sock that was drying by the fire. That's where the traditions of leaving gifts and having stockings come from! (Sorry this comment is a little late but I'm a new sub and I'm working my way thru your posts!) Hope your New Year is off to a great start! 🤗💕🤗 Edit to add that St. Nicholas of Myra left gifts without being seen. That's where the tradition came from leaving gifts when kids go to sleep.
In parts of central Europe it is Sant Niclaus who is the gift giver still , whilst in other countries they mark it as the magi who brought gifts to Jesus. Sant Niclaus became Santa Claus, but the writer of 'the night before Christmas' and later Coca cola had a lot to do with the jolly man in a red suit based at the North Pole with an army of elves we have now.
*gasp* but knowing Latin and Greek are for those “untrue” religions like Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy! I was raised Catholic so I’m saying that tongue in cheek. My ex was an evangelical and considered Catholics as half assed pagans. Me at Wigilia: Why aren’t we having ham or Turkey like other families? Grandparents: Eat your pickled herring, dear
The videos of you as a kid are adorable, it hurts my heart to know that that little girl was being mistreated and brainwashed. Also your puppy is so cute and well behaved!
I always took Happy Holidays to mean Christmas Eve, Christmas, New Years Eve, and New Years. Now any time someone scoffs and says something along the lines of “don’t you mean Merry Christmas” (admittedly way less common now that I’m not in retail), I say a version of “Well, I did want you to have a happy new year too, but not anymore.”
Yep, it’s from the Greek letter chi, the first letter in the Greek spelling of Christ. Looks like an X. The chi-rho design was used on the shields of Constantine’s soldiers after his conversion. Your average fundie won’t know that, since it requires knowing some history and languages.
@@katharinelong5472 I'm reminded of the scene in "Full Metal Jacket" when Lee Ermey has all the recruits sing "Happy Birthay Dear Jesus"!! And Chaplain Charlie Will Put On a Magic Show As Well!!
Totally the Christian fundies just don’t get that X (I think ichthos) was for Fish 🐠 an early Christian symbol This just shows how wilfully ignorant these people have let themselves remain
I can see that you're approaching motherhood with a foundation of respecting your childs autonomy, encouraging their curiosity, and respecting them as a human being separate to you. It was genuinely lovely to hear how you've tackled concepts like Santa Claus with her with the context of how you were raised and what you want to do differently.
I have a Santa story that would probably give some evangelicals and fundies nightmares. I’m a pagan, and one year my local metaphysical/witchy store hosted a small Yule market and celebration. There were local vendors, discounted tarot readings and apple cider, but the main attraction were the special visitors that the store owners had hired to come visit. Not only did these witches and pagans hire a Santa to take pictures, but seated a few feet across from him was a man dressed up as fucking KRAMPUS. It was hilarious to see groups of kids go get their picture taken with Santa, only to scamper across the room to get one with a demonic looking man with goat hooves and chains. The way Santa and Krampus were seated facing each other made it look like they were one funny look away from an epic Christmas themed battle. I wonder if the two were some sort of package deal, or if the man playing Santa was left questioning how his life choices led him to that situation. Either way, it was lots of fun. Quick side note, Krampus wasn’t there to scare children into behaving, the whole thing seemed to be a joke about how many non-pagans seem to see us as demon worshipers. All the kids I saw with Krampus either looked delighted to be there or confused as to why their parents thought it would be fun to stand next to a guy in a weird costume. Oh yeah, and I did get my picture taken with Krampus. It was great.
It is so incredibly interesting and poignant to hear about your experiences. Thank you for making this channel feel so safe and for your bravery to share these videos. 💞
@Marshal Marrs Exactly: what looks like a letter 'X' is actually the Greek letter _chi,_ which has been used as an abbreviation for "Christ" since the earliest days of the church.
I can relate with a lot of what you shared. My parents didn't go so far as to bake Jesus a cake though, but I remember being told not to ever write X-Mas or say Happy Holidays. Great video as always!
"I didn't get the opportunity to choose what I believe." To hear another say that phrase is affirming. During a therapy session it was suggested that I didn't used to have choices, now life is my choice. I now repeat that I have a choice to myself, often. Also, I was a PK who played baby Jesus for my first two nativity plays.
I totally understand why you mentioned the racism. Kwanzaa isn’t even a religious holiday. It’s a cultural/ethnic one. I appreciate you giving the disclaimer and expressing how self ware you are and how your lense through which you see the world is what it is and why.
Kwanzaa was invented by an African criminal. A Zambian told me that when I went there on a missions trip 12 years ago. He said no one should celebrate it. He was black, btw.
Another exvangelical here, though it has nothing to do with my Santa story. My mom just didn't want to lie to me. Problem being, the teacher at my daycare told me allllll about Santa, and I of course went home and told my mom allllll about Santa. So she told me the story she knew of the history of Saint Nicolas, and I asked "So, is he dead?" and she said "Of course, sweetie, everyone who lived during that time is dead." So I trotted my little 2-year-old butt back to daycare and told all the little kids that Santa Claus was dead. 🤣
Professor leading the Operation Christmas Child on campus: this will be the only gift most of these kids will ever get! Guy next to me: but we do this every year?
Ya know maybe if O'Reilly;Prager and the rest of those poor pitiful bitches would listen to some of the fun Christmas songs like "Santa Claus is Back In Town";"Holly Jolly Christmas"and "Nuttin'For Christmas" they might get over their(perceived)'persecution complex' and maybe,just maybe,they might even have a little fun!! Better yet maybe Jolly Ol'Saint Nick will.bring them a big ol'pair of pliers to pull that bug out of their asses with!! Even better maybe Krampus"ll drag them kicking and screaming down to Hell!!
Reading through the comments and everyone else seems to be surprised by some of the details of your childhood christmases. I relate to every. single. point. I did all of those things, was told all the same reasons for doing them, and have the same feelings still pop up some years 10 years after leaving. I really enjoy your videos. There is comfort somehow in knowing I am not the only one who has “deconstructed” from such an extreme version of christianity. I find it wild how so so similar our childhoods were. Also, I did not realize about the operation christmas child (now that you explain it, makes complete sense though…). Going to do my own research now. Thank you for sharing your story!
I'm an ex-Christian atheist and I LOVE the December holidays. I have a 'soft spot' for nature loving religions and IMO, the "Christmas' religion borrows heavily from pagan traditions, including the date, which is around the Winter Solstice. In fact the only Christian thing about Christmas is the name. When I first acknowledged I no longer believed, I studied the history of Christmas to see what I could, in good consciousness, still do and I was SO HAPPY to realize the decorations, lights, cake, eggnog (spiked of course) and most of all, the decorated evergreen tree were all associated with other traditions and/or religious practices. (Although I just can't get myself to like Wassail) About Santa and all that, IMO, I see it as commercialism. So, not a great message, especially bc the Santa in the red'n'white image was picked (I'm sure, in part, bc of the artists' unconscious racism) but also for a Macy's advertising thing, as it was also the colors of Coca Cola. Buy, buy, buy. Sigh Did you know Protestants tried to outlaw it in the 1700's in England bc the RCC had borrowed so many pagan traditions from it but again, here in America right after it was founded? For the same reason... I'm glad that didn't stick. I really do love the Holiday Season 💛
OMG I can't stop commenting.... So many dots are being connected!! They used to do Operation Christmas Child in my elementary school but I had no idea THAT was what it was. The teachers gave us a flowery, heartwarming explanation of how we would be helping children around the world who "don't get to celebrate Christmas" and that was all. The wrapping was done outside of school, conveniently. I guess since these things were always presented to me indirectly to seem innocent I didn't pick up on the code. Also, I remember one of the standard art class projects around Christmas was always making angels out of rolled up doilies and construction paper. There was only ever one material available for the hair and it was a curly metallic gold ribbon. I didn't think anything of it then but it for sure reinforced the idea that blonde hair = good and dark hair = bad. *Edit: And that creepy ass song about Mary going through labor pains! I first heard that at a live nativity scene and ever since, that has been one of my go-to songs for explaining to people how weird the music is.
That was my experience of OCC too! We only did it once, and while the suggestion for the card was "Jesus gave you this gift" or something similarly Christian, I just wrote "A friend" and didn't get any flack for it. And what makes it weird is that we were a small private school with enough Jewish students that when we had a major holiday, pretty much everyone took the day off!
Elly, during these troubled times, I find your videos strangely comforting. I guess it's because it's reassuring to know at this late date young people can still hack themselves free of the whole Christian nationalist/quiverfull/MAGA mindset. I was raised very strict Catholic. And I rejoice when I see anyone else escape the mental prison of organized religion.
I didnt have my kids believe in Santa because i was afraid they would ask for something i couldn't afford and they would think bad of themselves. Also i wanted them to trust me!
I am blushing 🥰💜 Edit: the caroling omg I did not know that’s just fundies doing ministry 😭 I might enjoy the Rodrigues coming to my house 🤔…I did not know that’s what those shoebox things the Duggar do are 😮 this was so interesting, great great video
As an indigenous person, I really agree and resonated with a lot of the things that you said, especially about how you are choosing to raise your own children. The thing I'm still unsure about for myself or my son is whether I will tell him not to tell others that Santa isn't real. I feel like that sets up a worldview of "let people believe blatant lies that directly harm people, even if you have proof in hand" and that carries over to a LOT of important things like climate justice, racial justice, etc. If some kids parents want to tell their own child that the sky is green, they're allowed to do so, but don't expect my son to continue your lie? Idk it's so complicated. Props to you for being so open with your process, I learned a lot in this video!
Even when i was still in the “Jesus is the reason for the season” mindset, i never had a problem with Happy Holidays because i always took the “holidays” to mean Christmas & New Year’s, and even Thanksgiving if it was still November when said. My family was very fundie, Happy Birthday Jesus cake and all, but we had a book explaining that early Christians used the Greek letter chi, now X, to stand for Christ, so writing Xmas doesn’t remove him from the word at all. We also could have Santa imagery and received presents marked “from Santa” but were never made/allowed to believe he was real.
I also use the word "Xmas" as often as I can now. After leaving the church I kind of decided that the symbol of Santa was for me to give gifts to a stranger without recognition. I secretly left a generic present for years at my neighbor's doorstep with a note saying it was from Santa.
I like to say something along the lines of, “Whatever you celebrate, if anything, I hope it’s happy and wonderful!!” I don’t want to make assumptions and always want to be respectful. Having said that, I will say, “Happy Hanukkah “ every once in a while in response to someone telling me, “Merry Christmas”...not bc I celebrate Hanukkah but bc I can’t stand the “war on xmas” crap...
I am Jewish and also autistic and have always felt this us vs them about it when Christians wish me a Merry Christmas. People always tell me "oh they're just not thinking about it". Thank you for validating for me that they are and that it's very intentional. And public school teachers should NOT be talking about Santa.
Great episode, a lot of insights on the Santa thing. My husband and I don't celebrate Christmas but I feel very connected to the solstice, and celebrate that. We tell people we enjoy the holidays...and we do! Love your set up for today's video. Now you just need many leather-bound books
I am writing a character who is a caricature of Christofascists at first who later turns out to only act this way because she is abused her Christian Fundie family(physically and spiritually) and so to get this redemption arc right because she starts out as a Human Supremacist villain I am binging Ellie’s videos.
I'm raising three daughters now. Watching little you in your videos gives me some weird mom feelings, (you're an adult, I'm an adult, etc.) But I wanted you tell you I'd be very proud to have someone as kind and sweet and strong and conscientious as you for a daughter. So here's to broken childhoods and weird parenting feels!
Your description of not wanting to instill the naughty/nice dichotomy made me tear up. How sweet! And if you haven't seen it, I highly recommend the movie Hogfather as a really fun, funny deconstruction of Santa that I think would connect with your values.
I also taught my daughter as a deconstructor that santa isnt real because i was hurt by the lie that santa was real as a child. so I told her the historical stories of santa and how many people cherish santa still but he isnt real as in he passed away and now there are really sweet good natured old men who carry on his story of giving to kids by playing santa! She got it and loves that I refused to lie to her despite some hating me for this. Also I have the same exact approach with respecting other kids and families views on this and not to tell her friends hes not alive anymore.
I have mulled over the Santa thing for a while. For me it similarly comes down to not wanting to lie to my child. I can remember finding out the truth about Santa when I was at school aged 5, and it immediately made me feel foolish and abit betrayed, and put up the first wall between my Mum and I. I think I will take the approach of letting them know that it is 'fun make believe' for children and adults alike. And I plan to ask them if they would like to participate in the 'game' as part of our Christmas celebrations.
Fun and make believe are an important part of childhood and it is in that spirit that our family celebrated Christmas and watched stories about Santa Claus. Children do not separate reality from fantasy as easily as adults (although God ultimately is just Santa for adults), but our kids "believed" in Santa to the same degree that they believed in the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy and Leprechauns. As they aged up, eventually they grew out of these beliefs just as they stopped believing in the "reality" of things like talking animals selling car insurance.
Thank you so much for your videos! They are greatly helping me on my deconstruction journey, which I didn’t even realize I was on until recently. I wasn’t a fundie but I was brought up in a very strict religious household and am refusing to bring my children up in the church due to my religious trauma.
I loved the bit about chilling with your dog by the tree in holiday sweaters as your reason for the season 🤣 I am white, and I was given black Santa and Mrs. Claus ornaments, from a friend who knows I am continually working towards anti-racist ideals. I never knew how to explain it succinctly to anyone who would ask, but I love what you said about "disrupting" the centering of whiteness through various aspects of Christmas. Your commentary is always so helpful to me. Thank you so much Elly!!
I absolutely loved and resonated with what you said about your daughter not taking what you say at face value. I also madly respect how you support her in her pursuit of knowledge, rather than quash her curiosity and questioning. Really reminiscent of my own childhood with non-religious, but spiritual parents. I’ve been binging all your videos. As a believer in Jesus who has been deconstructing her faith for a few years now, I have been so appreciative of your communication style: to the point, compassionate, unapologetic. These topics are so poignant and relevant, yet somewhat difficult for me to confront. You make confronting them a lot easier for me.
I appreciate you so much. I just watched my first video of yours prior to watching the first minute of this one. While I was raised without religion, I have no doubt you are helping many and I find your experiences fascinating and educational. ❤️❤️❤️ P.S. Don’t stop. Keep going. You have a lot to offer!
Love your channel, I grew up in a very similarly abusive fundie baptist household, so it helps having some validation of how dysfunctional religious families often are behind closed doors
I would like to offer loving encouragement. I’m so sorry for the mistakes your parents made. I’m sorry for the trauma you experienced. I agree that in many ways religion has made mistakes, after all it is a man made made practice. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. All the nuances your parents focused may have been distractions, and many down right harmful. But I want to encourage you to seek God, seek him on your own, not on your own terms but honestly without the influence of culture. Jesus is the only way and all our wounds are healed through relationship him. Bless you!
I have a similar story about being asked about Santa as a toddler. My family celebrated St Nicholas' day instead, but I had church friends who did Santa. My parent's reasoning was that they wanted me to know where the gifts were coming from, and also to not lie to me.
Oh and of course Merry Christmas to you and yours in the USA from us all in the UK. I totally love ❤️ the idea of you encouraging your Daughter to find out about Santa for herself. Exactly and I mean exactly how my first Wife and I brought up our own Sons. It’s also just beautiful that you are showing examples of tolerance and understanding not just to your Daughter but to those around you. You know yesterday in our Inter-fait meeting here in Yarmouth UK I met two Women who described themselves as Witches and talked with me about Paganism. I had not the slightest desire to ‘convert them to Christianity’, to judge them, to even run away from them ….. I felt utter peace towards them as I did with all the other faith traditions. I felt true respect and my mind remained open and alert to them just as human beings. Sadly with some who claim to be Christian in the UK this idea of White Christian Supremacy is taking hold and this is actually very very frightening!
I love that your daughter wants to find out for herself if Santa is real or not! I was "that kid" by nature, mostly. Actually, I'm "that guy" as an adult too, now that I think about it. I don't really believe anything I'm told unless I can verify it myself. And I'm humble enough to come back later and say to a person's face, "You know, I didn't believe you when you told me [whatever]. And I know it may have hurt your feelings a little bit when I did that. But after looking into it I found out you're absolutely correct. So, if I hurt your feelings inadvertently, I apologize."
95% of Christmas and its trappings are pagan! I wish Christians would do some research about the creation of their own holidays. Easter around Spring Equinox, Christmas, 3 days after Winter Solstice.
What I found painful was that they had a birthday cake and sang happy birtday when don't know when Jesus was born. The birth of Jesus is observed in Christmas to displace Yule. Jesus was proabably born in March or April although I have heard evidence that suggests September and October too.
As part of their Christian Nationalist/Racist/Manifest Destiny ideology, Fundies love to point to the Puritans escaping Europe to practice their religion and to bring it to the non-white indigenous people of America. But one of the very first laws the Puritans made and enforced was to outlaw the celebration of Christmas! It's true! They knew it to be of pagan origin and so its practice was akin to paganism. This was the norm in America for a very long time. The Founding Fathers also did not celebrate Christmas in anyway. Indeed, the very first session of Congress got underway on Dec. 25, 1789 which was just a normal day back then, not a holiday at all.
Excellent thoughts. Thanks for sharing your ideas about Santa Claus. My oldest child was born before I was a fundamentalist, and I chose to teach him that Santa was a "legend" that people liked to think about and pretend about. When he was in kindergarten he came home one day and informed me that Santa was real. So, yeah, similar to your daughter's feelings. Oddly, I was raised in a different cultish version of Christianity that rejected the notion of Jesus's birthday, so ALL we did was Santa Claus and secular Christmas stuff in my family growing up. But when I was a fundy, later on, it was all Jesus and no Santa at all. But I could never do the birthday cake thing. That just felt too corny to me, and I knew it wasn't really his birthday. (Anyway, great video!)
11:20 this sort of language is also common in Japanese as well, where “white” means innocent and “black” is guilty and shades of gray can describe shades of guilt
I’m a fairly new subscriber and I’ve been binge watching from your first video. Just wanted to say that I LOVE your daughters critical thinking skills! ✨
We never really did the whole Santa thing aside from the hats and some holiday decor, but my Mom always likes to put our pets' names or the names of the outdoor animals on the surprise gifts. So it was not uncommon for me to get a new set of themed bedsheets that were supposedly from the wild possums outside, or my dog apparently helped pick out an adorable shaped pillow that looks like her. Usually it's a label reserved for practical gifts, while something like a new video game system is labeled from the true gifter, although a pet name might appear on the package for the accompanying game to go with it. Bonus if the name on the tag is written with paw prints or decorations relevant to the critter. This tradition still continues to this day, even though I'm 31. I love it.
This is interesting to listen to, because I am in some ways in the opposite situation. I grew up in a nominally Catholic home. We went to church and said grace before dinner but didn’t talk about religion at all. We were taught that other people’s religions were none of our business. I even have Jewish family members. Then I met other people that were highly religious and it was a different world. Sometimes I was more scornful and sarcastic than I should have been, because they seemed so strange to me. I was amazed about hearing a customer at a job I had ask me to get a cake that said “Happy Birthday Jesus.” A friend of my mother’s didn’t like Catholics and sometimes forgot that mom was one. She said Catholics tend to be alcoholics. This friend said that snakes were “of the Devil” (a term I’d never heard of) and rolled her eyes when I mentioned my Jewish uncle. Dad’s girlfriend after mom died is a Baptist and really doesn’t care for Muslims. She said once that if they come to America they should be neutered first. (She obviously doesn’t know the difference between race and religion.) Nothing brought me to reality like my first marriage. I knew that my wife and her family were religious and conservative but I no idea. I saw what it was like to live in that world, not just in small dosages from non-family. No matter how I acted, they would always see me as an enemy. I’m an atheist but I think I’m a better Christian than they are.
I work in a store around the holidays I got so sick of the pointed "Merry Christmas" when I said Happy Holidays, that I've just started saying Have a nice day! year round.
Our church did Operation Christmas Child. Watching your videos make me realize why my siblings no longer believe in Christianity and even I'm starting to question stuff I learned growing up .
I can see reasons why not go along with the Santa story - issues of going to the store and expected to sit on a strangers knee and whisper in their ear. And as you said the idea of a man coming into your home; and I have seen a campaign to encourage parents to not attribute expensive presents to SAnta due to the impact on poorer children not getting a fancy Santa gift - they can understand taht their family has less less money, but since santa has unlimited budget why do they get less. Totally agree about the naughty or nice, and the elf on a shelf stuff only adds to that, (not to between a parental chore each night). I think its fine your daughter knows that it is a story that some believe but you don't, and the freedom for her to question what you tell her is great, as well as the place of respectingh that others have their belief and not to tell them. Awesome
I grew up in the town that has the headquarters of Operation Christmas Child. It was a big feature in my childhood. So that part really hit me! And the nativity plays...blech
I’ve found and been binging your channel this week because I relate so heavily and closely to your experiences. You are so eloquent and balanced about topics that even with time to process, fire me up in a way I have a hard time concealing. Thank you for taking the time to break these down so thoroughly.
Thanks for sharing your experiences and especially the home videos. I grew up very similar to you and while naturally everything you say resonates with me, even just seeing those flashbacks to your childhood (so much like mine) brings me a sort of comfort in this process of deconstructing. I appreciate how vulnerable and strong you have to be to share this with us. Thanks as well to your siblings for their permission in being shown and/or spoken about
I know this is late but I think the way you approach the holidays and deal with your daughter is so great. I wasn’t really raised fundie but I see some Of the influences in my own family and people around me. It’s nice to just celebrate in your own way. Hope you had a merry Xmas!
That's a calm dog. As a long-time atheist, I often say (during the season) Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays, since I mean both. I'm a non-believer, but I see no reason I shouldn't wish Christians a Merry Christmas, and everyone else Happy Holidays. Can't we all just, get along. For goodness sake, they got the hippy hippy shake. So, what's it like when you encounter your friends from your fundie days? Do they greet your cordially, with prayers, or with avoidance? ??? Jump cuts, ahhhhgggh.
Totally respect your opinion about Santa, especially with your personal experiences. To me, the idea of lying implies deceit, and I don't feel the idea of sharing this tradition is about deceit. It's just about fun and tradition. However, my parents never used the threat "Santa isn't coming if you don't do XYZ" because let's be a real, they were never going to cancel Christmas lol. When I have kids, I'm also going to make sure only handmade gifts are given by Santa. I want them to understand more expensive items aren't free and that someone had to work hard to provide it to them.
I’m Pagan, my husband is from a Jewish family, he doesn’t believe. We had originally planned not to do Christmas Trees. We also live closer to his family than to mine, well one Christmas our elementary school daughters decorated a lamp with the ornaments they made in school, then proudly showed that to my mother in law. Her response was that we needed to “get those kids a Christmas Tree” well we did. As they got older I told them that I get irrationally sad taking down Christmas trees, so it was their job to box it all up in January. That tree is pretty eclectic, there’s lots of blue and white on it as well as ornaments of Russian design (parts of his family) it’s turned into a very personal tree.
Even though I wasn't raised in a religious household, I remember having to do Operation Christmas Child with school until my parents researched the charity and opted out. Every year from then I remember the guilt and judgement for not participating, even though we were still doing the shoeboxes for another charity. And yes, this was public school
I wasn't raised religious and as a kid used to get Oriental Trading (yknow, the party supply company) catalogs in the mail for some reason. I loved looking through them and remember they sold candy canes with a similar "candy canes are Christian and this is their symbolism!!!!!" card attached, reading that blurb on the page and thinking "is this for real?"
I'm from Hungary and we were taught the exact same thing about how to greet others at xmastime. We have a phrase that translates to "Pleasant holidays!" which is ideologically neutral and very much looked down on by the church. Our pastor told us that "only bathwater can be pleasant" but the birth of our saviour is holy, so as protestants we outgh to say "Holy holidays!" - an also existing phrase in our language, equivalent to merry xmas, but it was always uncomfortable throwing that at someone unsuspecting. I don't do it anymore. :)
I sort of like different holiday greetings for each festivity. To me it shows diversity of different nations and their cultures/customs (Chag Sameachh) for example.
One of the churches my family went to once taught us that a local college was taking Christmas trees and putting them upside down, “making the trees that typically point up towards God and heaven point towards hell”
My parents never entirely bought into the war on Christmas. We weren't raised believing in Santa Claus, but they didn't treat the character like a demon either--my grandfather would dress up as Santa to distribute gifts at our family Christmas party, and we could watch movies and listen to music about Santa. He was a fictional character. And I think my parents' take on the happy holidays thing was that it was an absurd thing to quibble about. But Christmas was always very church-centric, partly because my parents were heavily involved in the music and drama ministries. Today I tend to view Christmas as the secular part of my Winter Solstice celebrations. My daughter treats baby Jesus and Santa as semi-fictional characters that people believe in and that she thinks sound pretty cool. We've talked to her about the historical origins of the both Jesus and Santa and that the stories people tell about them now were inspired by real people, and that they convey ideas that different communities want to pass on.
I really like how you've handled the Santa issue. We also didn't teach our kids about Santa, but for slightly different reasons than you. My husband is Italian, and when he was growing up, they didn't have Santa (they have Bifana, who is a witch and a powerful woman). My family was pretty religious, and certainly my parents weren't raised with Santa either. Also, I had four brothers who were much older than me so if Santa was ever a thing with them, they were many years out of it. I did believe in Santa in kindergarten -- I guess I picked it up at school, and my parents let me but didn't fuss about it either way. I think I figured it out by January (likely my brothers spelled it out), but at school most kids were over Santa by grade 2. So when we had kids, for different reasons, we just didn't do Santa. We do have one or two pictures with Santa, because we were at the mall anyway and there was a short lineup, but we didn't give it much attention. Didn't ever tell them a Santa myth, but didn't forbid it either. I actually have some great Santa ornaments, but they are all arty and more a European Yule Father Christmas than the North American guy.
I don't have kids of my own, but I can speak to a child's power of investigation. I, like your daughter, was not convinced, only in that my parents definitely did the Santa thing and I was really not so sure it *was* real. I also even at age 4-ish knew all their hiding spots, and so sure enough, one year I went looking a bit before Christmas and found where they'd stashed all the presents. And then saw they were labeled "From Santa." Weirdly, I was not sad about this, I was mostly amazed at my own brilliance for figuring it out and being sure to fake all my surprise so they didn't know! 🤣 Don't underestimate the deviousness of young troublemakers in the making.
I went Christmas caroling in the UK this year as I had just moved abroad. It was actually the first time I had done it since I was a kid but people really do enjoy it. Not sure what the beliefs were of those at the doors, we were singing the old Christian carols as well as the secular Christian Christmas songs, but the purpose of it was to collect donations for the local food bank and we raised the equivalent of 500 dollars in British pounds. I think it's okay to continue these old traditions, but to do so out of sincere love and for a good cause like with the raising money for those in need. As for the Christmas Boxes, I still support those as well so long as it's done out of love and sincerely wanting to bless the kids who receive them. I have been to some of the countries where they go and the kids have so very little and their lives are so incredibly hard. Doing these things in the right spirit, out of genuine love and humility, is crucial though. Approaching them as Jesus would, with genuine love, is crucial.
As a person who has been alone for many of Christmas after growing up Christian. There is a lot about Christmas I dislike, the first is the expectation that you have too spend time with people and what are the impacts on self worth if you don’t out of safety needs, the second how northern hemisphere focused it is and even isolated down to cold areas. as an Australian you hear so much that A warm holidays season is just wrong, where to me it’s normal. The spending culture, from wasted money on gift cards to returns let alone the pressure of finding the right gift to demonstrate love. I love Christmas but I think there are somethings that need to change
If you haven't already, I strongly recommend reading "Hogfather" by Terry Pratchett. It's one of the best stories I've ever read on tackling many of the cultural implications of Christmas traditions, how they developed over time, and how they exacerbate class and cultural divides. It's also an entertaining story about a magical murder mystery involving assassins, tooth fairies, the Grim Reaper cosplaying as Santa, an Oh God of Hangovers, manipulative cosmic accountants, an intelligent magical computer, manifest nightmare horrors, and a snarky talking raven.
I have to say, I have watched several of your videos now and I can’t help but feel really sorry. But probably not for the reason you think. I am a public music educator/musician, and I’m involved in pageantry and performance activities as a designer, choreographer, adjudicator, etc. From seeing a few clips of your dances/plays/and now hearing you sing, it is very clear to me how talented you are and were growing up. The reason I feel sorry is because I can imagine so many missed opportunities that you might have had in a public education environment, specifically to foster an even stronger knowledge and passion for the arts. I know you had some formal training in performing arts (I think dance, but not sure about others), but in a public education environment there is far more diversity of thought allowed in the arts. That exposure might have completely changed the trajectory of your life (not saying that you aren’t happy, and I am so happy for you that you got out tbc). As a performer/musician, I am sorry that you were never allowed to be open to those diverse ideas growing up, nor were you allowed to pursue your artistic passions for any other reason but to “serve Him”. As a public arts educator, I am sorry that you never got to pursue the artistic educational opportunities that would have been afforded to you in a public school setting, both academically and from a social environment standpoint. I personally would have loved to have had taught you as a student performer in any capacity. (obviously, I am not much of a words writerer lol, but I hope this is received positively).
Hi, Elly! Thanks again for your videos. Your comments about cultural appropriation in the living nativity shows reminded me of a story you might like, called "Great Joy." It's by Ursula K. Le Guin, and is found in her book _Changing Planes_ (the linking thread for the stories in the book is the ability to travel between dimensions [change planes] when subjected to the extreme discomfort of airport layovers). I can't really synopsize the story without dropping a spoiler, but I'm sure you would find it an interesting commentary on Christmas and the celebration of holidays in general.
I think Christmas is one of the first things I started to (and continue to) deconstruct as a child. At around the age of 5 I hated that I had been lied to about this fictional person that gave other kids more present than I did (my poor immigrant parents did the best they could). Not to mention the fact that Christmas had all these winter associations that make zero sense in Australia when it’s peak summer, another example of how colonisation has impacted this country and its people. As a deconstructing adult with 3 kids, I’ve taken the similar approach of saying Santa is like the characters on tv, not real but we can pretend, and that the gifts are given by my husband and I because we love them, not because of their behaviour. I also try to explain the reason behind the season associations of many “Christian” holidays is because of the colonisers originated from Europe, but that living in the Southern Hemisphere everything gets placed in the opposite season. Thanks for making this video, it’s really validating to see someone else go through similar experience growing up and come out of it with similar conclusions. May we all keep growing and learning and being better parents for our kids and ourselves!
I grew up in the bible belt 80's we sang christian Christmas songs and had a passion play at school in elementary. Everyone around me was always trying to save me.
Wow! That sounds intense. My late dad was a Disciples pastor, a mainline denomination. It worked because I'm a progressive Christian now. I'm sorry for your experience.
If you think about it, the whole "Santa rewards 'good' children" is kind of an extension of the whole Christian Prosperity Doctrine. IOW, "Santa rewards children whose parents have the money to buy presents. The more money your parents have, the more "good" you were and the more presents you get." Uch. 🙃 Elly, I've just found your channel and love what you have to say. I'm going to look into those books you've recommended. Thank you. I hope you are safe and happy.
the way we used to fight over who got to be the angels in the play at our church lol. one time they told me i was too old to be the angel so i had to play the "judge"
As an Atheist of a cultural minority (specifically, as a Jewish Atheist) I would like you to thank you for making this video! In discussing the reason why (in certain situations) to say "Happy Holiday" rather than "Merry Christmas" you really gave good treatment to a subject that some _other_ Atheists futzed up (and I mean even one that I, otherwise, have great respect for). Also - I love your Santa ornament. Reminds me of a cartoon I drew the day after Biden's victory was announced of Uncle Sam saying "You're Fired!" to Trump - where I made a point of portraying Uncle Sam as a person of color. Granted - while Santa is _usually_ portrayed as a white dude (despite the fact that the historical person he is frequently mapped to was from Turkey) - there _are_ exceptions to this portrayal. For example in Disney's RECESS, Santa is portrayed as a Black man. However, the impression that I got was not that this was in order to disrupt the narrative of Santa's Whiteness - but rather, to enable Mikey (one of the regular characters) to have a conversation with Santa without recognizing who it was that he was talking to.
It is for that very reason that when I post anything about fundamentalists and dominionists I use "Xtains." I do so because nationalism, theocracy, fascism, and authoritarianism is definitely not what Christ was about.
Oddly enough, the phrase "Happy Holidays" started within the Christian Church as "Happy Holy Days", because there are many holy days between early December and early January. But I'm glad that it also now stands for multiple holy days for many faiths at that time of the year.
Huh, then why do some Christians get furious when people say happy holidays instead of Merry Christmas? 😆
@@c.lineofficial because not all sect celebrate all of those holidays, evangelicals are much less likely to celebrate the Christmas season after Christmas Day like the 12 days of Christmas.
Yeah....I am have been a Christian for 30 years and the older I become the more ignorant evangelical Christians are. It is important.
In the legal profession, you say "Happy Holidays" because so many attorneys are Jewish. Plus, it's easy to say "Happy Holidays" up through New Year's.
@@kentfrederick8929 As a Jew, I can confirm this. I grew up in a town that was 90% Jewish and I can hardly keep track of the number of adults I knew who were lawyers. I think I met an advertising exec, a textbook publisher, a teacher, a doctor, a professor, a psychologist, an HR rep, and a thousand lawyers. Haha
That old "candy cane is a symbol of Jesus" trope is pure fiction. In the olden days, Christmas presents were simpler and smaller than they are now. Gifts of fruit, sweet treats, little trinkets were hung on Christmas trees as decorations and for visitors to take. Candy canes are hooked at one end to make them easy to hang on a Christmas tree. The person who invented the candy cane (yes, candy canes are about 100 years old) said the stripes are a marketing gimmick that brought in buyers. Their candy canes looked prettier and more festive because of the colored stripes, so they sold more candy at the holidays. There is no hint of Jesus in the real story of the candy cane.
Yes. I'm a Christian (Catholic) myself, and I already knew that the stripes in the candycanes were just gimmicks since it also brings extra flavour other than just plain vanilla (and for the kids of course, they love the designs of the canes).
Uh, no? I mean candy sticks are an old gift, but the curved top, made to look like a shepherds cane, was an idea by a bishop who was trying to keep kids quiet during the long christmas service, AND justify giving them sweets during church.
The "X" in Xmas is literally saying Christmas bc the X is the letter for Christ in Greek. It's def not pushing Jesus out of His birthday. It's the ignorance of those who don't understand the origins of language etc.
Also, Santa is based on a Bishop named Nicholas of Myra who used to leave gifts for poor families in his area so they could have dowries for their daughters to be able to marry. He would also drop gold down chimneys and legend has it that the gold fell into someone's sock that was drying by the fire. That's where the traditions of leaving gifts and having stockings come from!
(Sorry this comment is a little late but I'm a new sub and I'm working my way thru your posts!)
Hope your New Year is off to a great start! 🤗💕🤗
Edit to add that St. Nicholas of Myra left gifts without being seen. That's where the tradition came from leaving gifts when kids go to sleep.
In parts of central Europe it is Sant Niclaus who is the gift giver still , whilst in other countries they mark it as the magi who brought gifts to Jesus. Sant Niclaus became Santa Claus, but the writer of 'the night before Christmas' and later Coca cola had a lot to do with the jolly man in a red suit based at the North Pole with an army of elves we have now.
He is Saint Basil the Great to Greeks, and probably others of orthodox faith
*gasp* but knowing Latin and Greek are for those “untrue” religions like Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy!
I was raised Catholic so I’m saying that tongue in cheek. My ex was an evangelical and considered Catholics as half assed pagans.
Me at Wigilia: Why aren’t we having ham or Turkey like other families?
Grandparents: Eat your pickled herring, dear
Also, St Nicholas, while likely "white", was of Mediteranean extraction likely, was from what's now Turkey, but at the time was mostly Greek.
@@raakone you are correct! In the first known iconography of Nicholas of Myra his skin was dark.
The videos of you as a kid are adorable, it hurts my heart to know that that little girl was being mistreated and brainwashed. Also your puppy is so cute and well behaved!
Their dog is so adorable and wel behaved!
I always took Happy Holidays to mean Christmas Eve, Christmas, New Years Eve, and New Years.
Now any time someone scoffs and says something along the lines of “don’t you mean Merry Christmas” (admittedly way less common now that I’m not in retail), I say a version of “Well, I did want you to have a happy new year too, but not anymore.”
I love the bit about Christian Nationalist being "Goliath cosplaying as David" . I'll have to remember that.
I have a fundie relative that carries that "don't write Xmas" belief as well, nevermind that X has symbolized Christ since Biblical times.
Yep, it’s from the Greek letter chi, the first letter in the Greek spelling of Christ. Looks like an X. The chi-rho design was used on the shields of Constantine’s soldiers after his conversion. Your average fundie won’t know that, since it requires knowing some history and languages.
@@katharinelong5472 I'm reminded of the scene in "Full Metal Jacket" when Lee Ermey has all the recruits sing "Happy Birthay Dear Jesus"!!
And Chaplain Charlie Will Put On a Magic Show As Well!!
Totally the Christian fundies just don’t get that X (I think ichthos) was for Fish 🐠 an early Christian symbol
This just shows how wilfully ignorant these people have let themselves remain
I must not be the average fundie. I've known for years.
I can see that you're approaching motherhood with a foundation of respecting your childs autonomy, encouraging their curiosity, and respecting them as a human being separate to you. It was genuinely lovely to hear how you've tackled concepts like Santa Claus with her with the context of how you were raised and what you want to do differently.
I have a Santa story that would probably give some evangelicals and fundies nightmares. I’m a pagan, and one year my local metaphysical/witchy store hosted a small Yule market and celebration. There were local vendors, discounted tarot readings and apple cider, but the main attraction were the special visitors that the store owners had hired to come visit. Not only did these witches and pagans hire a Santa to take pictures, but seated a few feet across from him was a man dressed up as fucking KRAMPUS. It was hilarious to see groups of kids go get their picture taken with Santa, only to scamper across the room to get one with a demonic looking man with goat hooves and chains. The way Santa and Krampus were seated facing each other made it look like they were one funny look away from an epic Christmas themed battle. I wonder if the two were some sort of package deal, or if the man playing Santa was left questioning how his life choices led him to that situation. Either way, it was lots of fun.
Quick side note, Krampus wasn’t there to scare children into behaving, the whole thing seemed to be a joke about how many non-pagans seem to see us as demon worshipers. All the kids I saw with Krampus either looked delighted to be there or confused as to why their parents thought it would be fun to stand next to a guy in a weird costume.
Oh yeah, and I did get my picture taken with Krampus. It was great.
I would love going to something like that!
It is so incredibly interesting and poignant to hear about your experiences. Thank you for making this channel feel so safe and for your bravery to share these videos. 💞
That's so good to hear, thank you!
@Marshal Marrs Exactly: what looks like a letter 'X' is actually the Greek letter _chi,_ which has been used as an abbreviation for "Christ" since the earliest days of the church.
I can relate with a lot of what you shared. My parents didn't go so far as to bake Jesus a cake though, but I remember being told not to ever write X-Mas or say Happy Holidays. Great video as always!
"I didn't get the opportunity to choose what I believe." To hear another say that phrase is affirming. During a therapy session it was suggested that I didn't used to have choices, now life is my choice. I now repeat that I have a choice to myself, often. Also, I was a PK who played baby Jesus for my first two nativity plays.
I totally understand why you mentioned the racism. Kwanzaa isn’t even a religious holiday. It’s a cultural/ethnic one. I appreciate you giving the disclaimer and expressing how self ware you are and how your lense through which you see the world is what it is and why.
Kwanzaa was invented by an African criminal. A Zambian told me that when I went there on a missions trip 12 years ago. He said no one should celebrate it. He was black, btw.
Another exvangelical here, though it has nothing to do with my Santa story. My mom just didn't want to lie to me. Problem being, the teacher at my daycare told me allllll about Santa, and I of course went home and told my mom allllll about Santa. So she told me the story she knew of the history of Saint Nicolas, and I asked "So, is he dead?" and she said "Of course, sweetie, everyone who lived during that time is dead."
So I trotted my little 2-year-old butt back to daycare and told all the little kids that Santa Claus was dead. 🤣
Professor leading the Operation Christmas Child on campus: this will be the only gift most of these kids will ever get!
Guy next to me: but we do this every year?
Haha, good point!
True, but they also present a false gospel.
Ya know maybe if O'Reilly;Prager and the rest of those poor pitiful bitches would listen to some of the fun Christmas songs like "Santa Claus is Back In Town";"Holly Jolly Christmas"and "Nuttin'For Christmas" they might get over their(perceived)'persecution complex' and maybe,just maybe,they might even have a little fun!!
Better yet maybe Jolly Ol'Saint Nick will.bring them a big ol'pair of pliers to pull that bug out of their asses with!!
Even better maybe Krampus"ll drag them kicking and screaming down to Hell!!
Reading through the comments and everyone else seems to be surprised by some of the details of your childhood christmases. I relate to every. single. point. I did all of those things, was told all the same reasons for doing them, and have the same feelings still pop up some years 10 years after leaving.
I really enjoy your videos. There is comfort somehow in knowing I am not the only one who has “deconstructed” from such an extreme version of christianity. I find it wild how so so similar our childhoods were. Also, I did not realize about the operation christmas child (now that you explain it, makes complete sense though…). Going to do my own research now. Thank you for sharing your story!
I'm so glad my videos can help you feel less alone! Your comment makes me feel less alone too :)
I'm an ex-Christian atheist and I LOVE the December holidays. I have a 'soft spot' for nature loving religions and IMO, the "Christmas' religion borrows heavily from pagan traditions, including the date, which is around the Winter Solstice. In fact the only Christian thing about Christmas is the name.
When I first acknowledged I no longer believed, I studied the history of Christmas to see what I could, in good consciousness, still do and I was SO HAPPY to realize the decorations, lights, cake, eggnog (spiked of course) and most of all, the decorated evergreen tree were all associated with other traditions and/or religious practices. (Although I just can't get myself to like Wassail)
About Santa and all that, IMO, I see it as commercialism. So, not a great message, especially bc the Santa in the red'n'white image was picked (I'm sure, in part, bc of the artists' unconscious racism) but also for a Macy's advertising thing, as it was also the colors of Coca Cola. Buy, buy, buy. Sigh
Did you know Protestants tried to outlaw it in the 1700's in England bc the RCC had borrowed so many pagan traditions from it but again, here in America right after it was founded? For the same reason... I'm glad that didn't stick. I really do love the Holiday Season 💛
OMG I can't stop commenting.... So many dots are being connected!! They used to do Operation Christmas Child in my elementary school but I had no idea THAT was what it was. The teachers gave us a flowery, heartwarming explanation of how we would be helping children around the world who "don't get to celebrate Christmas" and that was all. The wrapping was done outside of school, conveniently. I guess since these things were always presented to me indirectly to seem innocent I didn't pick up on the code.
Also, I remember one of the standard art class projects around Christmas was always making angels out of rolled up doilies and construction paper. There was only ever one material available for the hair and it was a curly metallic gold ribbon. I didn't think anything of it then but it for sure reinforced the idea that blonde hair = good and dark hair = bad.
*Edit: And that creepy ass song about Mary going through labor pains! I first heard that at a live nativity scene and ever since, that has been one of my go-to songs for explaining to people how weird the music is.
That was my experience of OCC too! We only did it once, and while the suggestion for the card was "Jesus gave you this gift" or something similarly Christian, I just wrote "A friend" and didn't get any flack for it. And what makes it weird is that we were a small private school with enough Jewish students that when we had a major holiday, pretty much everyone took the day off!
Elly, during these troubled times, I find your videos strangely comforting. I guess it's because it's reassuring to know at this late date young people can still hack themselves free of the whole Christian nationalist/quiverfull/MAGA mindset. I was raised very strict Catholic. And I rejoice when I see anyone else escape the mental prison of organized religion.
I didnt have my kids believe in Santa because i was afraid they would ask for something i couldn't afford and they would think bad of themselves. Also i wanted them to trust me!
I am blushing 🥰💜
Edit: the caroling omg I did not know that’s just fundies doing ministry 😭 I might enjoy the Rodrigues coming to my house 🤔…I did not know that’s what those shoebox things the Duggar do are 😮 this was so interesting, great great video
I guess the Rodrigues wouldn't even need any other families to carol with since there's so many of them! Our quiver wasn't full enough haha :)
As an indigenous person, I really agree and resonated with a lot of the things that you said, especially about how you are choosing to raise your own children.
The thing I'm still unsure about for myself or my son is whether I will tell him not to tell others that Santa isn't real. I feel like that sets up a worldview of "let people believe blatant lies that directly harm people, even if you have proof in hand" and that carries over to a LOT of important things like climate justice, racial justice, etc. If some kids parents want to tell their own child that the sky is green, they're allowed to do so, but don't expect my son to continue your lie?
Idk it's so complicated. Props to you for being so open with your process, I learned a lot in this video!
Even when i was still in the “Jesus is the reason for the season” mindset, i never had a problem with Happy Holidays because i always took the “holidays” to mean Christmas & New Year’s, and even Thanksgiving if it was still November when said.
My family was very fundie, Happy Birthday Jesus cake and all, but we had a book explaining that early Christians used the Greek letter chi, now X, to stand for Christ, so writing Xmas doesn’t remove him from the word at all. We also could have Santa imagery and received presents marked “from Santa” but were never made/allowed to believe he was real.
I also use the word "Xmas" as often as I can now.
After leaving the church I kind of decided that the symbol of Santa was for me to give gifts to a stranger without recognition. I secretly left a generic present for years at my neighbor's doorstep with a note saying it was from Santa.
I like to say something along the lines of, “Whatever you celebrate, if anything, I hope it’s happy and wonderful!!” I don’t want to make assumptions and always want to be respectful.
Having said that, I will say, “Happy Hanukkah “ every once in a while in response to someone telling me, “Merry Christmas”...not bc I celebrate Hanukkah but bc I can’t stand the “war on xmas” crap...
The story about your daughter wanting to figure out whether or not Santa is real is really sweet. I'm glad she's got such an inquisitive mind
I am Jewish and also autistic and have always felt this us vs them about it when Christians wish me a Merry Christmas. People always tell me "oh they're just not thinking about it". Thank you for validating for me that they are and that it's very intentional. And public school teachers should NOT be talking about Santa.
Great episode, a lot of insights on the Santa thing. My husband and I don't celebrate Christmas but I feel very connected to the solstice, and celebrate that. We tell people we enjoy the holidays...and we do!
Love your set up for today's video. Now you just need many leather-bound books
This woman brings me so much joy. The truth in her videos is so liberating
I am writing a character who is a caricature of Christofascists at first who later turns out to only act this way because she is abused her Christian Fundie family(physically and spiritually) and so to get this redemption arc right because she starts out as a Human Supremacist villain I am binging Ellie’s videos.
I'm raising three daughters now. Watching little you in your videos gives me some weird mom feelings, (you're an adult, I'm an adult, etc.) But I wanted you tell you I'd be very proud to have someone as kind and sweet and strong and conscientious as you for a daughter. So here's to broken childhoods and weird parenting feels!
Your description of not wanting to instill the naughty/nice dichotomy made me tear up. How sweet! And if you haven't seen it, I highly recommend the movie Hogfather as a really fun, funny deconstruction of Santa that I think would connect with your values.
It's on RUclips! ruclips.net/video/JoWifSyA9NQ/видео.html
I also taught my daughter as a deconstructor that santa isnt real because i was hurt by the lie that santa was real as a child. so I told her the historical stories of santa and how many people cherish santa still but he isnt real as in he passed away and now there are really sweet good natured old men who carry on his story of giving to kids by playing santa! She got it and loves that I refused to lie to her despite some hating me for this. Also I have the same exact approach with respecting other kids and families views on this and not to tell her friends hes not alive anymore.
I have mulled over the Santa thing for a while. For me it similarly comes down to not wanting to lie to my child. I can remember finding out the truth about Santa when I was at school aged 5, and it immediately made me feel foolish and abit betrayed, and put up the first wall between my Mum and I. I think I will take the approach of letting them know that it is 'fun make believe' for children and adults alike. And I plan to ask them if they would like to participate in the 'game' as part of our Christmas celebrations.
My mom felt the same way, haha! Still enjoyed the Christmas specials featuring Santa though!
Fun and make believe are an important part of childhood and it is in that spirit that our family celebrated Christmas and watched stories about Santa Claus. Children do not separate reality from fantasy as easily as adults (although God ultimately is just Santa for adults), but our kids "believed" in Santa to the same degree that they believed in the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy and Leprechauns. As they aged up, eventually they grew out of these beliefs just as they stopped believing in the "reality" of things like talking animals selling car insurance.
Thank you so much for your videos! They are greatly helping me on my deconstruction journey, which I didn’t even realize I was on until recently. I wasn’t a fundie but I was brought up in a very strict religious household and am refusing to bring my children up in the church due to my religious trauma.
I loved the bit about chilling with your dog by the tree in holiday sweaters as your reason for the season 🤣 I am white, and I was given black Santa and Mrs. Claus ornaments, from a friend who knows I am continually working towards anti-racist ideals. I never knew how to explain it succinctly to anyone who would ask, but I love what you said about "disrupting" the centering of whiteness through various aspects of Christmas. Your commentary is always so helpful to me. Thank you so much Elly!!
I absolutely loved and resonated with what you said about your daughter not taking what you say at face value. I also madly respect how you support her in her pursuit of knowledge, rather than quash her curiosity and questioning. Really reminiscent of my own childhood with non-religious, but spiritual parents.
I’ve been binging all your videos. As a believer in Jesus who has been deconstructing her faith for a few years now, I have been so appreciative of your communication style: to the point, compassionate, unapologetic. These topics are so poignant and relevant, yet somewhat difficult for me to confront. You make confronting them a lot easier for me.
I appreciate you so much. I just watched my first video of yours prior to watching the first minute of this one. While I was raised without religion, I have no doubt you are helping many and I find your experiences fascinating and educational. ❤️❤️❤️
P.S. Don’t stop. Keep going. You have a lot to offer!
Love your channel, I grew up in a very similarly abusive fundie baptist household, so it helps having some validation of how dysfunctional religious families often are behind closed doors
I really enjoyed your video. Thank you for the care you took in making it.
I would like to offer loving encouragement. I’m so sorry for the mistakes your parents made. I’m sorry for the trauma you experienced. I agree that in many ways religion has made mistakes, after all it is a man made made practice. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. All the nuances your parents focused may have been distractions, and many down right harmful. But I want to encourage you to seek God, seek him on your own, not on your own terms but honestly without the influence of culture. Jesus is the only way and all our wounds are healed through relationship him. Bless you!
We used to go around singing carols under the guise of fundraising for the poor. I didn’t realize we were pushing beliefs on others.
I think...the listeners were free to choose whether to listen or not though...
I was forced to do that as a child against my will. I relate
I have a similar story about being asked about Santa as a toddler. My family celebrated St Nicholas' day instead, but I had church friends who did Santa. My parent's reasoning was that they wanted me to know where the gifts were coming from, and also to not lie to me.
Growing up as a strict Southern Baptist Fundie myself, I can well relate to your postings. You express that culture so well. Well done.
Oh and of course Merry Christmas to you and yours in the USA from us all in the UK. I totally love ❤️ the idea of you encouraging your Daughter to find out about Santa for herself. Exactly and I mean exactly how my first Wife and I brought up our own Sons. It’s also just beautiful that you are showing examples of tolerance and understanding not just to your Daughter but to those around you. You know yesterday in our Inter-fait meeting here in Yarmouth UK I met two Women who described themselves as Witches and talked with me about Paganism. I had not the slightest desire to ‘convert them to Christianity’, to judge them, to even run away from them ….. I felt utter peace towards them as I did with all the other faith traditions. I felt true respect and my mind remained open and alert to them just as human beings.
Sadly with some who claim to be Christian in the UK this idea of White Christian Supremacy is taking hold and this is actually very very frightening!
I love that your daughter wants to find out for herself if Santa is real or not! I was "that kid" by nature, mostly. Actually, I'm "that guy" as an adult too, now that I think about it. I don't really believe anything I'm told unless I can verify it myself. And I'm humble enough to come back later and say to a person's face, "You know, I didn't believe you when you told me [whatever]. And I know it may have hurt your feelings a little bit when I did that. But after looking into it I found out you're absolutely correct. So, if I hurt your feelings inadvertently, I apologize."
95% of Christmas and its trappings are pagan! I wish Christians would do some research about the creation of their own holidays. Easter around Spring Equinox, Christmas, 3 days after Winter Solstice.
Blessed Ostara! Those eggs & bunnies sure aren't Christian, lol.
What I found painful was that they had a birthday cake and sang happy birtday when don't know when Jesus was born. The birth of Jesus is observed in Christmas to displace Yule. Jesus was proabably born in March or April although I have heard evidence that suggests September and October too.
I know people, who don't celebrate christmas and easter at all because of its "pagan" roots. Another form of sad fundamentalism.
As part of their Christian Nationalist/Racist/Manifest Destiny ideology, Fundies love to point to the Puritans escaping Europe to practice their religion and to bring it to the non-white indigenous people of America. But one of the very first laws the Puritans made and enforced was to outlaw the celebration of Christmas! It's true! They knew it to be of pagan origin and so its practice was akin to paganism. This was the norm in America for a very long time. The Founding Fathers also did not celebrate Christmas in anyway. Indeed, the very first session of Congress got underway on Dec. 25, 1789 which was just a normal day back then, not a holiday at all.
DUDE I've never seen another person that sung happy birthday to jesus
Excellent thoughts. Thanks for sharing your ideas about Santa Claus. My oldest child was born before I was a fundamentalist, and I chose to teach him that Santa was a "legend" that people liked to think about and pretend about. When he was in kindergarten he came home one day and informed me that Santa was real. So, yeah, similar to your daughter's feelings. Oddly, I was raised in a different cultish version of Christianity that rejected the notion of Jesus's birthday, so ALL we did was Santa Claus and secular Christmas stuff in my family growing up. But when I was a fundy, later on, it was all Jesus and no Santa at all. But I could never do the birthday cake thing. That just felt too corny to me, and I knew it wasn't really his birthday. (Anyway, great video!)
idk why my mom always told me santa wasn’t real but all you reasons make sense to me.
11:20 this sort of language is also common in Japanese as well, where “white” means innocent and “black” is guilty and shades of gray can describe shades of guilt
Same. In Chinese, the term for criminal underworld contains the character for the color black.
I’m a fairly new subscriber and I’ve been binge watching from your first video. Just wanted to say that I LOVE your daughters critical thinking skills! ✨
I love this channel. I grew up Christian but not as extreme as you describe, yet at the same time I remember experiencing a lot of what you describe
People saying Happy Holidays are also usually being accurate. If it's not December 25th or at least 24th, it's not Christmas.
We never really did the whole Santa thing aside from the hats and some holiday decor, but my Mom always likes to put our pets' names or the names of the outdoor animals on the surprise gifts. So it was not uncommon for me to get a new set of themed bedsheets that were supposedly from the wild possums outside, or my dog apparently helped pick out an adorable shaped pillow that looks like her. Usually it's a label reserved for practical gifts, while something like a new video game system is labeled from the true gifter, although a pet name might appear on the package for the accompanying game to go with it. Bonus if the name on the tag is written with paw prints or decorations relevant to the critter.
This tradition still continues to this day, even though I'm 31. I love it.
You were absolutely the cutest kiddo omg. I love the opening with your dog
This is interesting to listen to, because I am in some ways in the opposite situation. I grew up in a nominally Catholic home. We went to church and said grace before dinner but didn’t talk about religion at all. We were taught that other people’s religions were none of our business. I even have Jewish family members. Then I met other people that were highly religious and it was a different world. Sometimes I was more scornful and sarcastic than I should have been, because they seemed so strange to me. I was amazed about hearing a customer at a job I had ask me to get a cake that said “Happy Birthday Jesus.” A friend of my mother’s didn’t like Catholics and sometimes forgot that mom was one. She said Catholics tend to be alcoholics. This friend said that snakes were “of the Devil” (a term I’d never heard of) and rolled her eyes when I mentioned my Jewish uncle. Dad’s girlfriend after mom died is a Baptist and really doesn’t care for Muslims. She said once that if they come to America they should be neutered first. (She obviously doesn’t know the difference between race and religion.) Nothing brought me to reality like my first marriage. I knew that my wife and her family were religious and conservative but I no idea. I saw what it was like to live in that world, not just in small dosages from non-family. No matter how I acted, they would always see me as an enemy. I’m an atheist but I think I’m a better Christian than they are.
Thank you for sharing. ❤️. You are not alone.
I work in a store around the holidays I got so sick of the pointed "Merry Christmas" when I said Happy Holidays, that I've just started saying Have a nice day! year round.
Omg what a cute little puppy dog!!
Our church did Operation Christmas Child. Watching your videos make me realize why my siblings no longer believe in Christianity and even I'm starting to question stuff I learned growing up .
Love the comfort buddy with the sweater ♥️
I can see reasons why not go along with the Santa story - issues of going to the store and expected to sit on a strangers knee and whisper in their ear. And as you said the idea of a man coming into your home; and I have seen a campaign to encourage parents to not attribute expensive presents to SAnta due to the impact on poorer children not getting a fancy Santa gift - they can understand taht their family has less less money, but since santa has unlimited budget why do they get less. Totally agree about the naughty or nice, and the elf on a shelf stuff only adds to that, (not to between a parental chore each night). I think its fine your daughter knows that it is a story that some believe but you don't, and the freedom for her to question what you tell her is great, as well as the place of respectingh that others have their belief and not to tell them. Awesome
I grew up in the town that has the headquarters of Operation Christmas Child. It was a big feature in my childhood. So that part really hit me! And the nativity plays...blech
I’ve found and been binging your channel this week because I relate so heavily and closely to your experiences. You are so eloquent and balanced about topics that even with time to process, fire me up in a way I have a hard time concealing. Thank you for taking the time to break these down so thoroughly.
Thanks for sharing your experiences and especially the home videos. I grew up very similar to you and while naturally everything you say resonates with me, even just seeing those flashbacks to your childhood (so much like mine) brings me a sort of comfort in this process of deconstructing. I appreciate how vulnerable and strong you have to be to share this with us. Thanks as well to your siblings for their permission in being shown and/or spoken about
I know this is late but I think the way you approach the holidays and deal with your daughter is so great. I wasn’t really raised fundie but I see some Of the influences in my own family and people around me. It’s nice to just celebrate in your own way. Hope you had a merry Xmas!
That's a calm dog.
As a long-time atheist, I often say (during the season) Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays, since I mean both. I'm a non-believer, but I see no reason I shouldn't wish Christians a Merry Christmas, and everyone else Happy Holidays. Can't we all just, get along.
For goodness sake, they got the hippy hippy shake.
So, what's it like when you encounter your friends from your fundie days? Do they greet your cordially, with prayers, or with avoidance? ???
Jump cuts, ahhhhgggh.
Totally respect your opinion about Santa, especially with your personal experiences. To me, the idea of lying implies deceit, and I don't feel the idea of sharing this tradition is about deceit. It's just about fun and tradition. However, my parents never used the threat "Santa isn't coming if you don't do XYZ" because let's be a real, they were never going to cancel Christmas lol. When I have kids, I'm also going to make sure only handmade gifts are given by Santa. I want them to understand more expensive items aren't free and that someone had to work hard to provide it to them.
I’m Pagan, my husband is from a Jewish family, he doesn’t believe. We had originally planned not to do Christmas Trees. We also live closer to his family than to mine, well one Christmas our elementary school daughters decorated a lamp with the ornaments they made in school, then proudly showed that to my mother in law. Her response was that we needed to “get those kids a Christmas Tree” well we did. As they got older I told them that I get irrationally sad taking down Christmas trees, so it was their job to box it all up in January. That tree is pretty eclectic, there’s lots of blue and white on it as well as ornaments of Russian design (parts of his family) it’s turned into a very personal tree.
Even though I wasn't raised in a religious household, I remember having to do Operation Christmas Child with school until my parents researched the charity and opted out. Every year from then I remember the guilt and judgement for not participating, even though we were still doing the shoeboxes for another charity. And yes, this was public school
I wasn't raised religious and as a kid used to get Oriental Trading (yknow, the party supply company) catalogs in the mail for some reason. I loved looking through them and remember they sold candy canes with a similar "candy canes are Christian and this is their symbolism!!!!!" card attached, reading that blurb on the page and thinking "is this for real?"
This was really informative. Thank you. Wishing good luck and a save travel to the north pole. 💪
I'm from Hungary and we were taught the exact same thing about how to greet others at xmastime. We have a phrase that translates to "Pleasant holidays!" which is ideologically neutral and very much looked down on by the church. Our pastor told us that "only bathwater can be pleasant" but the birth of our saviour is holy, so as protestants we outgh to say "Holy holidays!" - an also existing phrase in our language, equivalent to merry xmas, but it was always uncomfortable throwing that at someone unsuspecting. I don't do it anymore. :)
That is so interesting!! "Pleasant Holidays" is such a nice greeting too :) Thanks for sharing!
I sort of like different holiday greetings for each festivity. To me it shows diversity of different nations and their cultures/customs (Chag Sameachh) for example.
I love your channel, thank you for your videos. I feel less alone in this season! Happy holidays 🥳
I'm so glad to hear that! Happy Holidays! :)
One of the churches my family went to once taught us that a local college was taking Christmas trees and putting them upside down, “making the trees that typically point up towards God and heaven point towards hell”
My parents never entirely bought into the war on Christmas. We weren't raised believing in Santa Claus, but they didn't treat the character like a demon either--my grandfather would dress up as Santa to distribute gifts at our family Christmas party, and we could watch movies and listen to music about Santa. He was a fictional character. And I think my parents' take on the happy holidays thing was that it was an absurd thing to quibble about. But Christmas was always very church-centric, partly because my parents were heavily involved in the music and drama ministries. Today I tend to view Christmas as the secular part of my Winter Solstice celebrations. My daughter treats baby Jesus and Santa as semi-fictional characters that people believe in and that she thinks sound pretty cool. We've talked to her about the historical origins of the both Jesus and Santa and that the stories people tell about them now were inspired by real people, and that they convey ideas that different communities want to pass on.
I really like how you've handled the Santa issue. We also didn't teach our kids about Santa, but for slightly different reasons than you. My husband is Italian, and when he was growing up, they didn't have Santa (they have Bifana, who is a witch and a powerful woman). My family was pretty religious, and certainly my parents weren't raised with Santa either. Also, I had four brothers who were much older than me so if Santa was ever a thing with them, they were many years out of it. I did believe in Santa in kindergarten -- I guess I picked it up at school, and my parents let me but didn't fuss about it either way. I think I figured it out by January (likely my brothers spelled it out), but at school most kids were over Santa by grade 2. So when we had kids, for different reasons, we just didn't do Santa. We do have one or two pictures with Santa, because we were at the mall anyway and there was a short lineup, but we didn't give it much attention. Didn't ever tell them a Santa myth, but didn't forbid it either. I actually have some great Santa ornaments, but they are all arty and more a European Yule Father Christmas than the North American guy.
I don't have kids of my own, but I can speak to a child's power of investigation. I, like your daughter, was not convinced, only in that my parents definitely did the Santa thing and I was really not so sure it *was* real. I also even at age 4-ish knew all their hiding spots, and so sure enough, one year I went looking a bit before Christmas and found where they'd stashed all the presents. And then saw they were labeled "From Santa."
Weirdly, I was not sad about this, I was mostly amazed at my own brilliance for figuring it out and being sure to fake all my surprise so they didn't know! 🤣
Don't underestimate the deviousness of young troublemakers in the making.
I went Christmas caroling in the UK this year as I had just moved abroad. It was actually the first time I had done it since I was a kid but people really do enjoy it. Not sure what the beliefs were of those at the doors, we were singing the old Christian carols as well as the secular Christian Christmas songs, but the purpose of it was to collect donations for the local food bank and we raised the equivalent of 500 dollars in British pounds. I think it's okay to continue these old traditions, but to do so out of sincere love and for a good cause like with the raising money for those in need. As for the Christmas Boxes, I still support those as well so long as it's done out of love and sincerely wanting to bless the kids who receive them. I have been to some of the countries where they go and the kids have so very little and their lives are so incredibly hard. Doing these things in the right spirit, out of genuine love and humility, is crucial though. Approaching them as Jesus would, with genuine love, is crucial.
Incidentally it was my British friend who invited me to go caroling and he is an atheist. He loved it still though
As a person who has been alone for many of Christmas after growing up Christian. There is a lot about Christmas I dislike, the first is the expectation that you have too spend time with people and what are the impacts on self worth if you don’t out of safety needs, the second how northern hemisphere focused it is and even isolated down to cold areas. as an Australian you hear so much that A warm holidays season is just wrong, where to me it’s normal. The spending culture, from wasted money on gift cards to returns let alone the pressure of finding the right gift to demonstrate love. I love Christmas but I think there are somethings that need to change
I really appreciated hearing your takes on The War on Christmas.
I decided to tell my son from a young age that Santa was based on a real person, the bishop of Turkey, and his origins.
If you haven't already, I strongly recommend reading "Hogfather" by Terry Pratchett. It's one of the best stories I've ever read on tackling many of the cultural implications of Christmas traditions, how they developed over time, and how they exacerbate class and cultural divides. It's also an entertaining story about a magical murder mystery involving assassins, tooth fairies, the Grim Reaper cosplaying as Santa, an Oh God of Hangovers, manipulative cosmic accountants, an intelligent magical computer, manifest nightmare horrors, and a snarky talking raven.
I have to say, I have watched several of your videos now and I can’t help but feel really sorry. But probably not for the reason you think.
I am a public music educator/musician, and I’m involved in pageantry and performance activities as a designer, choreographer, adjudicator, etc. From seeing a few clips of your dances/plays/and now hearing you sing, it is very clear to me how talented you are and were growing up. The reason I feel sorry is because I can imagine so many missed opportunities that you might have had in a public education environment, specifically to foster an even stronger knowledge and passion for the arts. I know you had some formal training in performing arts (I think dance, but not sure about others), but in a public education environment there is far more diversity of thought allowed in the arts. That exposure might have completely changed the trajectory of your life (not saying that you aren’t happy, and I am so happy for you that you got out tbc).
As a performer/musician, I am sorry that you were never allowed to be open to those diverse ideas growing up, nor were you allowed to pursue your artistic passions for any other reason but to “serve Him”. As a public arts educator, I am sorry that you never got to pursue the artistic educational opportunities that would have been afforded to you in a public school setting, both academically and from a social environment standpoint. I personally would have loved to have had taught you as a student performer in any capacity. (obviously, I am not much of a words writerer lol, but I hope this is received positively).
when I worked retail, I would say "enjoy your holidays" and oh boy did that piss some people off
Hi, Elly! Thanks again for your videos. Your comments about cultural appropriation in the living nativity shows reminded me of a story you might like, called "Great Joy." It's by Ursula K. Le Guin, and is found in her book _Changing Planes_ (the linking thread for the stories in the book is the ability to travel between dimensions [change planes] when subjected to the extreme discomfort of airport layovers). I can't really synopsize the story without dropping a spoiler, but I'm sure you would find it an interesting commentary on Christmas and the celebration of holidays in general.
I 100% agree with your take on Santa. And you sound like a GREAT mom. :)
I think Christmas is one of the first things I started to (and continue to) deconstruct as a child. At around the age of 5 I hated that I had been lied to about this fictional person that gave other kids more present than I did (my poor immigrant parents did the best they could). Not to mention the fact that Christmas had all these winter associations that make zero sense in Australia when it’s peak summer, another example of how colonisation has impacted this country and its people. As a deconstructing adult with 3 kids, I’ve taken the similar approach of saying Santa is like the characters on tv, not real but we can pretend, and that the gifts are given by my husband and I because we love them, not because of their behaviour. I also try to explain the reason behind the season associations of many “Christian” holidays is because of the colonisers originated from Europe, but that living in the Southern Hemisphere everything gets placed in the opposite season.
Thanks for making this video, it’s really validating to see someone else go through similar experience growing up and come out of it with similar conclusions. May we all keep growing and learning and being better parents for our kids and ourselves!
I grew up in the bible belt 80's we sang christian Christmas songs and had a passion play at school in elementary. Everyone around me was always trying to save me.
I love that you do not santa and your reasons are so valid! We do it the same.
Wow! That sounds intense. My late dad was a Disciples pastor, a mainline denomination. It worked because I'm a progressive Christian now. I'm sorry for your experience.
If you think about it, the whole "Santa rewards 'good' children" is kind of an extension of the whole Christian Prosperity Doctrine. IOW, "Santa rewards children whose parents have the money to buy presents. The more money your parents have, the more "good" you were and the more presents you get." Uch. 🙃
Elly, I've just found your channel and love what you have to say. I'm going to look into those books you've recommended. Thank you.
I hope you are safe and happy.
Great videos! Thanks for sharing your experience and perspective.
the way we used to fight over who got to be the angels in the play at our church lol. one time they told me i was too old to be the angel so i had to play the "judge"
That puppy, though.
As an Atheist of a cultural minority (specifically, as a Jewish Atheist) I would like you to thank you for making this video! In discussing the reason why (in certain situations) to say "Happy Holiday" rather than "Merry Christmas" you really gave good treatment to a subject that some _other_ Atheists futzed up (and I mean even one that I, otherwise, have great respect for).
Also - I love your Santa ornament. Reminds me of a cartoon I drew the day after Biden's victory was announced of Uncle Sam saying "You're Fired!" to Trump - where I made a point of portraying Uncle Sam as a person of color.
Granted - while Santa is _usually_ portrayed as a white dude (despite the fact that the historical person he is frequently mapped to was from Turkey) - there _are_ exceptions to this portrayal. For example in Disney's RECESS, Santa is portrayed as a Black man. However, the impression that I got was not that this was in order to disrupt the narrative of Santa's Whiteness - but rather, to enable Mikey (one of the regular characters) to have a conversation with Santa without recognizing who it was that he was talking to.
Oh, the "X"ing Christ out of Christmas is such a popular "rule" in Christianity! Love that you write it as much as you can now! LOL!
I love that the daughter wants to go to the North Pole to see for her self. What a skeptic! Now that's a little one to be proud of.
It is for that very reason that when I post anything about fundamentalists and dominionists I use "Xtains." I do so because nationalism, theocracy, fascism, and authoritarianism is definitely not what Christ was about.
Love the story about your daughter! Nice way to approach the topic!