I think I had the exact same revelation at some point playing these games. I think Dishonored one it is much more nodded at but maybe not confirmed, whereas in two it is explicit.
That kiss on the cheek during a hug should have been hinting heavily I guess younger me was like "I guess the royal heir to the empire must have a cute crush on the royal body guard."
I wish the chaos system tracked more than just killing, instead it should do things like have guards wear helmets more often when you use the gun a lot, having them light the place up more if you ghosted a level etc.
It’s a system that signals so much more than it manages to achieve. It’s been a long while since making this video and I would be really interested in seeing what I think now because my memories are fond yet complicated.
I think that on high chaos the amount of guards and security the lord regent gets should be tripled and the guards should have like bulletproof armor or maybe choking resistance another thing i want to add is tallboys are like the 'peak' soldier, tall and scary with explosive and that yet they're one of the easiest enemies all you gotta do is either shoot their backs or blink up and stab them and their attacks are predictable, i think they only have like 2 and from like 10 paces back they only use the explosives they should of made tank enemies with heavy weapons, think it would of made the game harder and funner
Good video. Generally Disonored has a big issue regarding how its systems synchronize. You get all these cool toys and powers, but the game actively tells you that you are a bad kid if you use them. The difficulty also suffers quite a bit as a result. Most powers and weapons are indeed extremely fun to play with but also very overpowered. You can clear an entire area with your pistol or the rat swarm in the highest difficulty and only a select few enemies like the tallboys are legit challenging and dark vision + blink render stealth as a walk in the park (perhaps I am biased on that last one though because I have played the game so much that I have lost the perspective of a player who is not an expert at the game)
I have thought on this some more and having played DOTO (video in about a week or so) I tend to not mind that you get judged for being bad; the game reacting to you is cool and interesting. The fact it keeps telling you it is reacting to you is manipulative, you end up on a good or bad play through if you know what I mean. With the powers, I think on a first play through the power difference is asymmetrical enough it works. Dm the guards have numbers whereas your relatively squishy but powerful, but once you play enough they are really easy to take down. Let me know what you think?!
No, it's not. You can clearly see, that the chaos system is a way to show game's themes: Revenge, Violence, and consequences of your actions, *through the gameplay* unlike most of other games about revenge
I Agree with all of this I think one thing that would be cool, is if they made it so sometimes it's obvious (through dialogue, notes, and such) that it's better to kill a target, make it so sometimes it's obvious that mercy's better (again, dialogue and such), and make it harder to decide for some targets which is a better option. then, let the player decide through observation and such to work out which option would be better, so that the player has to go off of their morality instead of just keeping a guy alive, even if that means sending them to, metaphorical, hell. and also, for the targets you decided to keep alive, at the end of the game there could be like a glimpse into their future and where, or how badly (or how good), they end up because of you.
For sure. The ability for the game to continue to react but making it more player driven would only be a good thing. They seem to have hit some of these points in Prey, but I never quite finished that game as Dishonoured always felt better to play for me. Talking of which, if you fancy it, I have just released a video on Death of the Outsider that you might find interesting!
I think the example of the overseer who is infected is an example of how weird the chaos system is. Nothing you do should have affected him physically at that point, I guess you can infer that the Chaos system is somehow metaphysical, but the game explicitly says it isn’t. That’s another weird thing, apparently the chaos is related to the spread of the plague, but getting the power that destroys bodies leaves killing with the same Chaos effect. It feels like systems that should have been separated got mixed in with the Chaos system. Also actions that probably should increase the spread of the plague like taking down a wall of light and letting rats through are don’t have an effect I know of. Or what about choices that are bad but might be see as accidents like releasing rats to distract guards in a stealth play through. That shouldn’t affect Emily’s behaviour as they can’t be linked to Corvo, but it would increase the spread of the Plague. The game is assuming that you are judged by an omniscient force in doing the Chaos calculation, but the game doesn’t explain Chaos as a morality system
I just got done with my first Playthru ever of dishonored. The game always interested me but I never got around to finishing the game. After finishing one Playthru on high chaos I will say that I had a blast playing, but I definitely died a lot. With that being said, playing a high chaos Playthru wil teach a lot more about the game than if you are approaching it as only the non-lethal stealth game. Being able to utilize Corvo’s Full arsenal allows you to approach each respond in a new way compared to just playing it safe and say using blank and dark vision the whole time. I also agree with the comments and your point about the game wanting you to play a certain way. I do wish that I had a better ending for the high chaos because halfway through I stopped killing a lot of hostiles and targets in game because I was thinking about who corvo was before the coup
Overall it’s still one of my favorite games ever played, I bought the dlc and the second installment. I’m playing the knife of dunwall currently. currently
So I prefer a more stealthy playstyle so I'm naturally in the low chaos system but I really disagree with the games outlook on it's targets, it frames the no kill option as the good option but just like in star wars the old Republic (the MMO) it dosnt think this thought as ied say that almost all the no kill options are far worce for the target than just ending their lifes, take the noble lady I dread the think what will happen to her, we see what happens to one of our targets which isn't pretty, the two brothers get worked to death in their own mines (and while they probably deserve it a quick blade to the heart would have been a mercy) all the no kill options cause more suffering and torment than if we were to just end them, and while I'm against killing of innocence and guards ied say that weepers your doing them a mercy too but you are then leaving more food for the rats.
It sucks that a low chaos playthrough is not as fun as a high chaos playthrough, as there are far more ways to be lethal than non lethal. Low chaos pretty much pertains to chocking people out and shooting them with sleep darts. High chaos lets you use Corvo's full arsenal. However they make you feel soo bad causing the world to be more chaotic and consumed with plague. While everyone is pretty much disgusted with your actions and you feel as though you are corrupting Emily's innocence. I find myself trying not to kill people even when I have planned to do a high chaos playthrough. They really screw with you with this system. Unlike other games where choosing the bad ending playthrough slightly effects the story's outcome, with Dishonored it is instantly noticeable how bad your actions have effected the world. On the second mission of high chaos there are more enemies and the world has already gone to hell because of how many people you killed. Lol I guess the point of my rambling is to just let out some steam as to how they give you so many options to slaughter everyone but only a few ways to stay your murderous hand. At least in Dishonored 2 they give you the ability to chock people out during combat and the story isn't drastically darker if you choose high chaos. But damn in the first game it's so much more fun to kill everyone but they make you feel like such an A-hole for doing so.
I guess kill few (the truly degenerate and awful that won't be missed) spare the rest Low chaos as long as it's under 20% of the population per mission (yes I checked Google)
The more I consider this, the more I have come around to the 'good run' being killing your targets and no one else; or at least no one who doesn't deserve it.
I've commented this a lot on other studies of Dishonored, as well as stealthgamerBR's channel, but Dishonored is actually a really poorly designed game, if you give the slightest thought to things like it's level design, enemy AI, the chaos system, or that, outside of Blink, the spells all seem to just be there to get around specific areas of especially atrocious design. It's very obvious that the game was originally supposed to be a hack and slash your way to the goal title, and all the stealth/RPG elements were tossed in as an afterthought. And I will never pass up a chance to say that Dishonored is also still, after all these years, and by a margin of astronomical units the ugliest game I've ever seen in my life. It makes my soul hurt that there's people who think with a straight face this game is anywhere within 20 parsecs of pretty. But, you know... Bethesda's name was on the box as the producers studio, so we better just give it all the praise.
'Bethesda's name was on the box as the producers studio, so we better just give it all the praise.'' Bethesda is one of the widely hated game studios associated with selling out and 'after all these years [..] the ugliest game I've ever seen in my life.' is also a null point. Saying 'after all these years' is dumb because the game was released a WHILE ago (2012). You also haven't elaborated on the 'bad level design' or 'enemy AI', which means I can't write my own counterpoint on it. I will say that easy mode's AI is horrible but hard mode's AI is a good challenge. High damage, fast moves, better planning and an overall harder experience. Dishonored is a game built for stealth and that 'hack-and-slash' play style. The ledges, windows, room layouts, tables and pretty much everything else is designed to help you in stealth while your arsenal is built for that high-chaos killing spree. My advice is, if you play High Chaos, don't do easy mode. The game rewards you for going stealthy by letting you bypass the harder AI and bigger groups of enemies.
![Chino Pacas - Modo Capone (with Drake & Fuerza Regida) [Video Oficial]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zjv8TQ0gBkg/mqdefault.jpg)
Great job on this one, also I never thought about Corvo being Emily's father, despite it being, in retrospect, pretty obivious...
I think I had the exact same revelation at some point playing these games. I think Dishonored one it is much more nodded at but maybe not confirmed, whereas in two it is explicit.
That kiss on the cheek during a hug should have been hinting heavily
I guess younger me was like "I guess the royal heir to the empire must have a cute crush on the royal body guard."
I wish the chaos system tracked more than just killing, instead it should do things like have guards wear helmets more often when you use the gun a lot, having them light the place up more if you ghosted a level etc.
It’s a system that signals so much more than it manages to achieve. It’s been a long while since making this video and I would be really interested in seeing what I think now because my memories are fond yet complicated.
I think that on high chaos the amount of guards and security the lord regent gets should be tripled and the guards should have like bulletproof armor or maybe choking resistance
another thing i want to add is tallboys are like the 'peak' soldier, tall and scary with explosive and that yet they're one of the easiest enemies
all you gotta do is either shoot their backs or blink up and stab them and their attacks are predictable, i think they only have like 2 and from like 10 paces back they only use the explosives
they should of made tank enemies with heavy weapons, think it would of made the game harder and funner
Good video. Generally Disonored has a big issue regarding how its systems synchronize. You get all these cool toys and powers, but the game actively tells you that you are a bad kid if you use them. The difficulty also suffers quite a bit as a result. Most powers and weapons are indeed extremely fun to play with but also very overpowered. You can clear an entire area with your pistol or the rat swarm in the highest difficulty and only a select few enemies like the tallboys are legit challenging and dark vision + blink render stealth as a walk in the park (perhaps I am biased on that last one though because I have played the game so much that I have lost the perspective of a player who is not an expert at the game)
I have thought on this some more and having played DOTO (video in about a week or so) I tend to not mind that you get judged for being bad; the game reacting to you is cool and interesting. The fact it keeps telling you it is reacting to you is manipulative, you end up on a good or bad play through if you know what I mean.
With the powers, I think on a first play through the power difference is asymmetrical enough it works. Dm the guards have numbers whereas your relatively squishy but powerful, but once you play enough they are really easy to take down. Let me know what you think?!
I slaughtered the Golden Cat and Lighthouse gaurds and got low chaos.
No, it's not. You can clearly see, that the chaos system is a way to show game's themes: Revenge, Violence, and consequences of your actions, *through the gameplay* unlike most of other games about revenge
I Agree with all of this
I think one thing that would be cool, is if they made it so sometimes it's obvious (through dialogue, notes, and such) that it's better to kill a target, make it so sometimes it's obvious that mercy's better (again, dialogue and such), and make it harder to decide for some targets which is a better option. then, let the player decide through observation and such to work out which option would be better, so that the player has to go off of their morality instead of just keeping a guy alive, even if that means sending them to, metaphorical, hell. and also, for the targets you decided to keep alive, at the end of the game there could be like a glimpse into their future and where, or how badly (or how good), they end up because of you.
For sure. The ability for the game to continue to react but making it more player driven would only be a good thing. They seem to have hit some of these points in Prey, but I never quite finished that game as Dishonoured always felt better to play for me. Talking of which, if you fancy it, I have just released a video on Death of the Outsider that you might find interesting!
I think the example of the overseer who is infected is an example of how weird the chaos system is. Nothing you do should have affected him physically at that point, I guess you can infer that the Chaos system is somehow metaphysical, but the game explicitly says it isn’t.
That’s another weird thing, apparently the chaos is related to the spread of the plague, but getting the power that destroys bodies leaves killing with the same Chaos effect. It feels like systems that should have been separated got mixed in with the Chaos system.
Also actions that probably should increase the spread of the plague like taking down a wall of light and letting rats through are don’t have an effect I know of. Or what about choices that are bad but might be see as accidents like releasing rats to distract guards in a stealth play through. That shouldn’t affect Emily’s behaviour as they can’t be linked to Corvo, but it would increase the spread of the Plague. The game is assuming that you are judged by an omniscient force in doing the Chaos calculation, but the game doesn’t explain Chaos as a morality system
I just got done with my first Playthru ever of dishonored. The game always interested me but I never got around to finishing the game. After finishing one Playthru on high chaos I will say that I had a blast playing, but I definitely died a lot. With that being said, playing a high chaos Playthru wil teach a lot more about the game than if you are approaching it as only the non-lethal stealth game. Being able to utilize Corvo’s Full arsenal allows you to approach each respond in a new way compared to just playing it safe and say using blank and dark vision the whole time. I also agree with the comments and your point about the game wanting you to play a certain way. I do wish that I had a better ending for the high chaos because halfway through I stopped killing a lot of hostiles and targets in game because I was thinking about who corvo was before the coup
Overall it’s still one of my favorite games ever played, I bought the dlc and the second installment. I’m playing the knife of dunwall currently. currently
So I prefer a more stealthy playstyle so I'm naturally in the low chaos system but I really disagree with the games outlook on it's targets, it frames the no kill option as the good option but just like in star wars the old Republic (the MMO) it dosnt think this thought as ied say that almost all the no kill options are far worce for the target than just ending their lifes, take the noble lady I dread the think what will happen to her, we see what happens to one of our targets which isn't pretty, the two brothers get worked to death in their own mines (and while they probably deserve it a quick blade to the heart would have been a mercy) all the no kill options cause more suffering and torment than if we were to just end them, and while I'm against killing of innocence and guards ied say that weepers your doing them a mercy too but you are then leaving more food for the rats.
It sucks that a low chaos playthrough is not as fun as a high chaos playthrough, as there are far more ways to be lethal than non lethal. Low chaos pretty much pertains to chocking people out and shooting them with sleep darts. High chaos lets you use Corvo's full arsenal. However they make you feel soo bad causing the world to be more chaotic and consumed with plague. While everyone is pretty much disgusted with your actions and you feel as though you are corrupting Emily's innocence. I find myself trying not to kill people even when I have planned to do a high chaos playthrough. They really screw with you with this system. Unlike other games where choosing the bad ending playthrough slightly effects the story's outcome, with Dishonored it is instantly noticeable how bad your actions have effected the world. On the second mission of high chaos there are more enemies and the world has already gone to hell because of how many people you killed. Lol I guess the point of my rambling is to just let out some steam as to how they give you so many options to slaughter everyone but only a few ways to stay your murderous hand. At least in Dishonored 2 they give you the ability to chock people out during combat and the story isn't drastically darker if you choose high chaos. But damn in the first game it's so much more fun to kill everyone but they make you feel like such an A-hole for doing so.
I guess kill few (the truly degenerate and awful that won't be missed) spare the rest
Low chaos as long as it's under 20% of the population per mission (yes I checked Google)
The more I consider this, the more I have come around to the 'good run' being killing your targets and no one else; or at least no one who doesn't deserve it.
interesting topic but super boring delivery
I've commented this a lot on other studies of Dishonored, as well as stealthgamerBR's channel, but Dishonored is actually a really poorly designed game, if you give the slightest thought to things like it's level design, enemy AI, the chaos system, or that, outside of Blink, the spells all seem to just be there to get around specific areas of especially atrocious design. It's very obvious that the game was originally supposed to be a hack and slash your way to the goal title, and all the stealth/RPG elements were tossed in as an afterthought.
And I will never pass up a chance to say that Dishonored is also still, after all these years, and by a margin of astronomical units the ugliest game I've ever seen in my life. It makes my soul hurt that there's people who think with a straight face this game is anywhere within 20 parsecs of pretty. But, you know... Bethesda's name was on the box as the producers studio, so we better just give it all the praise.
well it is pretty from the ugliness and tone of the world as well as the artstyle you 12 year old
'Bethesda's name was on the box as the producers studio, so we better just give it all the praise.''
Bethesda is one of the widely hated game studios associated with selling out and 'after all these years [..] the ugliest game I've ever seen in my life.' is also a null point. Saying 'after all these years' is dumb because the game was released a WHILE ago (2012).
You also haven't elaborated on the 'bad level design' or 'enemy AI', which means I can't write my own counterpoint on it. I will say that easy mode's AI is horrible but hard mode's AI is a good challenge. High damage, fast moves, better planning and an overall harder experience.
Dishonored is a game built for stealth and that 'hack-and-slash' play style. The ledges, windows, room layouts, tables and pretty much everything else is designed to help you in stealth while your arsenal is built for that high-chaos killing spree.
My advice is, if you play High Chaos, don't do easy mode. The game rewards you for going stealthy by letting you bypass the harder AI and bigger groups of enemies.