His point mostly seems to be "Why should I feel obligated to support your cause when it's just about choosing who you love? I don't care, do what you want, but black people had worse problems" Which, honestly, is a much _better_ point than what other people think Patrice is saying lol. Something I never thought about, either. Kinda progressive for the early 2010s also
Ugh, they totally missed his point. He was saying that he doesn't understand how homosexuality went from a fetish to an identity. That's a legitimate question.
JackFlash85 In the old days yeah. I'm not trying to be homophobic. It's not hard for marital/sexual standards to change. Polygamy was fine not too long ago. Sexual attraction is totally cultural. That's why Patrice doesn't really give a fuck. People's "sexual identity" is retarded.
the question "how did homosexuality go from a fetish to an identity?" is like saying "how did the earth go from being flat to round?" Homosexuality didn't change. Ignorance of what it meant did.
Patrice is brilliant. Couldn't care less if you are gay, but who says that flaunting and defining one's sexuality publicly as if that is the end all and be all of one's existence isn't offensive and tasteless. Straights don't do that shit. Patrice is too deep for Jimmy.
Where have you been hiding? Sexuality is on full display nowadays…. They weren’t accepted when people dressed sensibly. Now they want to flaunt their body parts and PDA like everyone else is doing! It IS disgusting and tasteless but they certainly should be able to since everyone else does... We need to improve SOCIETY so that EVERYONE dresses acts right in public - and no one cares what goes on in adult and consensual privacy!
I love Patrice because as a white gay man he challenges me to think different and to take the other position. There were parts of this conversation that frustrates me and other parts that a was nodding in agreement. Patrice was a special guy who was suspicious of anyone trying to control what he thought, and that’s what I suspect is going on here. He wants to be his authentic self and say whatever he wants without being afraid. And I totally agree. The LGBT community can sometimes be just as vicious and judgmental as some clergy and religious folk and it’s simply hypocrisy. We sometimes think we are better than others, but we are not.
I’ve heard of gay people being offended by people saying it’s a choice and I’ve also heard of ones that get offended by people that say they are born that way I don’t get it
@@okilladmityouarerightbut4827 to be honest, I don’t know. If being gay simply means you’re attracted to a person of the same biological sex, then I don’t think we are born that way because babies are asexual. 😂 but do I think there are powerful genetic and environment influences that will eventually determine someone’s sexual orientation, yes. Once someone’s sexual orientation is fixed around 16, it basically won’t change. So not born that way, but also we don’t have a choice.
to quote patrice ... "Ready?"... women being scared to be seen as sluts and whores is equivalent to guys not wanting to be seen as gay or bi ... nothing to do with gay marriage, but just an observation I've made
We're not laughing. They now want to teach this crap in kindergarten now that it became normalized. Now I wish we could go back and strike this crap down.
I’ve come from the future to say…. It didn’t. It never stops in just one place. It invariably keeps moving. Look up NAMBLA and “MAPS.” 2023 is disgusting.
Patrice is making sense on most of the "gay" thing, but his take on abortion is wildly idiotic. It literally IS the woman's body. SHE is the one who is pregnant. HER body is pregnant. That is what "My body, my choice" means, dummy. It doesn't mean "The embryo/fetus is part of my body." Holy hell people are stupid/clueless.
Have to give props to Jimmy here. He has the logic, knowledge, and empathy to understand and argue for gay people's need to be recognized as equals to the rest of humanity. His ability to put himself in their shoes, plus his calm yet passionate debating style, easily overcomes Patrice's logic and stance on this issue. I like Patrice as a comedian and as a person, but his logic and way of thinking seems based just on his uninformed opinions and feelings, which is disappointing to see.
I’m big on freedom for consenting adults, but the thing that gets me is that people who talk about sex all the time or make their sexuality the most defining aspect of who they are are just deeply boring people. We all have crotches, we all like to do stuff with our crotches. Of course! That makes it kind of boring. What else do you love, steak? Sunshine? The beach? Puppies? Of course you do! It’s a cliche at a point. Some people are so over the top that they just become caricatures of that which they are. I’d say that to my straight friend too, or if I had a friend who likes the Mets too much as well. Anyone who is so into anything is just a boring person.
Patrice was such an intelligent man and nothing he said here was wrong. This isn't even a debate about gay marriage because, he agrees that gays should be allowed to get married. He sees it as a fetish like any other weird sex thing and I agree. People who like weird sex things usually keep it to themselves as they should but gays want everyone to know that they like getting poked in the pooper and they want everybody to praise it, that's what Patrice had a problem with. In this clip he used nothing but logic and I'm kind of disappointed in the comment section. Seeing the comments on this video really opened my eyes to how Americans were brainwashed into thinking gays are these mystical magical creatures and anyone that criticizes them are homophobic.
*Eastside Low Bottoms sh*t !* _Tappin' in from South Central LA_ Where the alphabet mafia loses me is how they make the false equivalency of comparing their "struggles" to the experiences of Foundational Black Americans in this country. Theyve never been lynched in large numbers, redlined, jim crowed, etc. Sh*t, even to this day, that community is hard core biased against Black Americans. Rest easy Big Homie 🙏🏾 We're listening. 🤜🏾💥🤛🏾
The real issue here and scariest thing is what Jimmy is proposing. He's proposing using legislation to help dictate society taste. You can't legislate as a means to change the way people think, you're creating a society that all thinks the same (which is dangerous), but they also think that way for the wrong reason, which would be fear.
No sir. You legislate as a means to treat people equally by law. You cant make people feel differently. Plus having everyone think that homophobia is wrong isnt dangerous.
+MrBackoftheface no sir. It's a vote. Amendments are voted on by congress. Congress is voted in by us, the people. They are YOUR representatives and YOU control them... They can not pass laws wildly-nilly. Legislating morality is a slippery slope because who owns flawless logic? Who's got the recipe for perfection? Maybe INGSOC?
Man, listening back to these older O+A clips, Patrice was fucking prophetic with a lot of predictions. He saw that this topic is the “slippery slope”, which helped lead Bruce Jenner to be named “woman of the year”. It’s a slippery slope alright, and we fell dick-first down it. Fuck.
I'm with Patrice in that I believe in God but question religion. If religious leaders didn't have a history or abusing their beliefs on people I would probably be more religious. But I am not going to let some preacher trying to convince me God needs him to have a mega church and flying a jet and making $50 million but there are still poor people or expecting the congregation to pay for everything. Screw that, reminds me of when I read about how the church pre-Martin Luther used to tell people they can pay their way into heaven. That sounds like a scam to me. And I feel like I can believe in God and question all of those practices.
@ninjast4r you have no idea what his or my concept of "God" is, you're assuming it's the exact same thing as yours. Because you still have some learning to do I suspect. God to me has nothing to do with santa claus or religion, it's a faith I have developed from real life experience. To me, after growing up some, my world would not make any sense if I still thought like you about "God"
Agree or disagree, it’s so important to be able to have conversations like this instead of crucifying someone for challenging your beliefs. Liberals and conservatives do it so don’t hit me with a one sided argument in the replies.
Patrice is wrong here (don't worry Patrice fanboys, he was right on most things but like all humans, he wasn't immune from mistakes). He's conflating fetishes with sexual orientation. Not the same thing. Another example of why street smarts are no substitute for actually educating yourself. Patrice was an odd combination of very street smart but woefully ignorant about basic science.
It drives me fucking crazy the way everyone says gay people must be "born gay" because they clearly don't choose it. That's a false dichotomy, it's not one or the other. Just because you don't choose your sexuality doesn't mean it's genetic or something determined _in the womb_ for fuck's sake. You don't choose to be afraid of spiders or open spaces but are you telling me people are born arachnophobic and agoraphobic? Of course they aren't. Just because something is involuntary doesn't mean it's something in you from birth. It's mind-boggling how everyone chooses to see it this way on this one issue. I see no evidence whatsoever that people are born homosexual - or heterosexual, for that matter - at all. And it seems entirely possible, and even much more likely, that sexuality is something that develops over time as someone goes through puberty. It's 100% involuntary for sure, but why everyone acts like because it's involuntary it _must_ therefore be something you're born with is beyond me.
Bingo!! nobody is born being into bondage, anal, sex with animals, or any other sexual deviancy. We do have an innate sexual drive that is hormonally driven. Some peoples hormones give them a higher sex drive than others but we all have a natural drive to reproduce our species. The higher the intelligence in the species, the more ability to control your natural drives (such as sexuality, eating habits, or other impulses linked to survival). So, the more indulgant you are with your natural impulses, usually is just an indicator of low intelligence (ever see a pride parade???) or just a total lack of self control, nothing more. We are all born with a sex drive and all born needing to eat. Some people deviate to unhealthy sexuality (homosexuality, bestiality, necrophilia, etc) and some people deviate to unhealthy eating disorders. You are not born bulimic and you are not born gay. you simply let your natural impulses take you to an unhealthy place.
Jimmy didn't out debate Patrice, it's just that Patrice was trying to articulate view that was unpopular at the time while Jimmy was making the popular point. Fast forward a decade and Dave Chappelle and others are taking the position that "my body my choice" makes no sense. And also, Patrice was predicting that the gay community would become more authoritarian AND THEY HAVE. Bottom line, Patrice was ahead of his time once again.
@@nickdipaolofan5948 I don't think the gay community has become authoritarian, unless you're referring to the entire LGBT community. Then yeah, or the loud ones at least...
@@BananaPhoPhilly you don't need every single gay person to be authoritarian in order for the generalization to be correct. In general, the gay community (and it's "allies") are the ones forcing others to celebrate their lifestyles OR ELSE. And the gay community are the ones who have bundled themselves as the LGBTQRXYZ community. So when someone is in fear of losing their job because they said the wrong pronoun, that IS the gay community. When someone has to endure their kids being read to by drag queens at the public school, that IS the gay community. when a business owner gets sued because they don't wish to participate in the celebration of a gay wedding, that IS the gay community. When a tax payer is paying taxes so public forms can be updated to add 50 made up genders, that IS the gay community. I could go on........................and on. But you get the idea.
God Norton is killing it through this whole piece. The only thing I wish he'd say is "Patrice, there used to be a time when it wasn't safe to be black in parts of this country. People would attack you, you couldn't get jobs, etc. That's civil/human rights. What you're missing when you say "educate me" is that gay people are dealing with that now. kids in high school aren't safe to be gay. And its not because you make jokes, its intolerance. That's what opressed people want changed."
Desire and action are not the same. That's how Patrice saw it I think. You define a homosexual as anyone who has the desire, whilst I think Patrice's definition defined a homosexual as someone who has actually had gay sex. Who's to say which definition is really correct...
No, I think I disagree with that. It's the ACTION of having sex with someone of the same sex that qualifies one as a homosexual, not the DESIRE to do it. Just like someone who longs to play piano is not a piano player until they actually....well, play piano. People gay and straight have lots of desires connected with their sexuality. Example; I may wish to be tied up and whipped, but I'm not a submissive into S&M until I actually get tied up and whipped. Fantasy and reality are not the same.
Hmm…I love his honesty. I’m a deep Patrice fan, this is the first time I’ve heard him put a thought out and thought he was completely wrong. I’m not assuming he’s asking these questions with anger or bigotry. He’s wrong because he doesn’t understand why gay people would want to fight as hard s they are for space in society…I would have loved to talk to him about it. People don’t talk as honestly s him any more, I hate it. fun thought experiment for sure.
He was wrong several times on O and A in my memory in these types of ideological debates. And he clearly was wrong here. To quote the great CQ though, even when he was wrong, he was still interesting.
"Born with it" is simplistic. Something like 5% of male children are sexually abused, and "A well documented long term negative effect is repeated or additional victimization in adolescence and adulthood." Overall LGBT population in US is about 3.8%; probably under reported. Similarly, 18% of female children are abused sexually; 95% of prostitutes were victims of childhood sexual trauma. People use this "born with it," IMO, b/c the reality of the situation is too horrible to contemplate.
Junji Ito yeah it’s like he just keeps saying words that don’t form any kind of cognitive argument. Sometimes he makes great points but sometimes he just talked in circles
@ivandag510 I've noticed that most Latin males who are gay pretty much are the stereotypical gay person that Conservatives are afraid of - over the top, flamboyant, demonstratively feminine.
Patrice once again could see the future. The most extreme radical people go after kids because they don’t have kids of their own. That goes for priests and people who want to dance sexually in front of kids alike.
Nah dude I couldnt disagree more, I believe nobody is born gay, it's all about parenting and or exposure to conditioning. That's as logical as I can put it. Prove me wrong
I agree, gays only in the last 40 or so years started trying to say they were born that way. It is a sexual preference just like Patrice is saying. Patrice preferred to choke his woman while she was climaxing. He was not born wanting to do that, it is a sexual preference he developed.
Marriage is not only for the religious...if it was then how do atheists get married?? Gays don't want validation from the church they want the exact same rights any straight person has..and currently any state that doesn't have gay marriage has no way to give a gay couple the same rights as a straight couple...why not just make it so the government views marriage as between 2 consenting people?
They do, as individuals, have the same rights as straight people. It's their relationship with someone else they want recognized by the gov't as a pair. I don't have any problem with gays getting married but you say they view marriage as between 2 consenting people but why can it only be 2? Are you opposed to polygamy?
neato mosque No as an individual they cannot marry they person they love like a straight person can, not with the STATES approval. A gay couple cannot file taxes as Married, that's a privilege straight people have ATM. When an unmarried gay man is sick and dying in the hospital and is in ICU the only people that can visit him are FAMILY.. and his partner would not be FAMILY. Also Wills can be contested and have been contested so that gay's ended up with nothing from their dead partners. This wouldn't happen if Marriage was defined as between two people. From a STATE pov I believe polygamy is illegal, but gay marriage is not illegal it is just not recognized by the STATE. I could ask if you believe in Bigamy or other forms of marriage but i don't care. Gays getting married harms NOONE, churches don't have to do ceremonies if they don't want to.
Vladdamyre All the things you said are for couples, not individuals. I'm straight and I can't file taxes as married either. I already said I don't have any problem with gays getting married, I just think there aren't any arguments for gay marriage that you can't make for polygamy or other kinds of marriage so since the request is to change which marriages are supported by gov't, there should be nothing wrong with adding multiple-person marriages as well. It would be hard for you disagree without doing what Patrice is being accused of here which is getting what you want and saying to hell with everyone else.
Vladdamyre Honestly, I think marriage should be re-examined when it comes to which are recognized, and certainly divorce laws need to be fixed. I'm not a big fan of marriage in general but since married couples do get privileges that singles don't, I say anybody who wants to get married should be able to.
neato mosque Well first off polygamy and bigamy are illegal..and have been for years. The biggest opponent to polygamy is that it is oppressive to women. Personally I don't actually care if it where legal. I do think Bigamy though should not be legal, it's essentially an attempt to have a contract to work for 2 companies without affecting the relationship with either company. It's just not going to happen and will only cause problems.
And straight parents outnumber gay parents 1000:1 so course they are going to raise more gay children. Ber you thought YOU were pretty clever for a second.
@tredavi I agree with you, but you should know that, in effect, you are disagreeing -with Patrice (which a lot of people seem to be afraid to do). Patrice seems to be going off on some "Do you want to be respected or do you want your rights?" thing, as if THAT's the issue. Equal rights are the matter at hand. Norton was on the money when he said that once people interact, thing will smooth over. The amount of concessions that Patrice makes kind of kill his arguments
That's kind of the point. It shouldn't matter. What 2 consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home isn't anyone's business. As long as it's not hurting anyone or anything. Considering a lot of gay people live their lives hiding it for years and are treated just like everyone else suggests that, and this is a shocker, they are just like everyone else.
It is crazy how a comedian who was a swinger and an admitted sexual deviant completely made the most compelling case for what most Christians believe (that homosexuality is simply a behavior and not really innate)
@@nickdipaolofan5948 Patrice is wrong. Here's why. He's asking what is it beyond the intercourse part? It's based on what he talks about all the time. Patrice talks about the nature of men and women. All his talk about "bitches" and how "men" are, how they each have specific characteristics; many homosexuals (I don't know exactly how it breaks down) LOVE the NATURE of the SAME biological sex. THEY LOVE how people of the same sex act, outside of the bed. Physical and psychological characteristics.
@@PlayNiceFolks so what? those two are separate issues. I am a man who prefers the company of other men (IE, having conversations, telling jokes, hanging out at parties, etc) but I have zero sexual attraction to males. SEXuality is about sex. Most men and most women do in fact prefer the company of their own gender over their counterparts because they understand each other better. Sex is how you get your rocks off, whether it be same sex, heterosex, donkey sex, blow up doll, what ever.
@@nickdipaolofan5948 I don't understand the need to belittle homosexual relationships. I suspect it still boils down to y'all's "ick" feeling, and you will use any argument to justify that feeling. Including a religious Argument.
Most importantly Patrice's point is irrelevant to the topic, and I think that's why there is confusion. Even if he got his point across, the topic is that discrimination and unfair treatment are in place and need to go. The platform that Patrice is ignoring is "Discrimination", not what is being discriminated against. Patrice is talking suffering Olympics, blacks can't hide etc... this is not a discussion about if LGBTQ suffer the SAME discrimination as blacks. Patrice was a comedic genius, but also he wasn't that bright. On black Philip he caused confusion once because he didn't know the difference between hole and whole. Most of the dudes attached to O&A are extremely funny, but they are also crude and under-educated. I'm not making fun or judging, their speech is evidence enough for the point I'm making.
The thing is, a black guy walking down the street is a black guy walking down the street and could be treated badly according to that. A gay dude walking down the street is only possibly in trouble if he advertises it. Plus, it's impossible to exist in a world without categories and marginalization. You can try to diminish the unfair kinds of marginalization, and you can do it successfully, but why is the marginalization of homosexuality less right that the marginalization of liking to "tie a bitch up and pee on her", as Patrice would say.
Come on Patrice... How come Jimmy is the voice of reason and the only one making sense in this conversation? It's not a difficult concept to grasp... Never the less RIP Patrice, I hope he got to grips and found his answer to this issue before he headed up to the big BBQ cook off in he sky!
He isn't though, so what now? Why do you wish he was still alive? To try and convince someone who isn't hetero that they should be? for what and to what end? Absolute moron behaviour
it's very important to learn to distinguish the difference between things that are "normal" and things that are "the norm"..."the norm" implies that it's the default position,or at least very nearly so,"normal" implies that it happens all the time,and shouldn't be regarded as unusual. homosexuality is "normal" in a very large number of species (perhaps thousands). so just because it isn't "the norm" doesn't mean it's not normal.
It depends on how you define a homosexual. My belief is that, right or wrong, Patrice himself defined (for example) male homosexuality as one man having sex with another as opposed to the DESIRE of one man to have sex with another. In other words, if you're thinking about it but not doing it you are not in fact gay. And, if you are doing it, why is your choice as a man to have sex with another man any more noteworthy than, say, Patrice's choice to have sex with a woman.
GOD cares, That's Why HE says, "REPENT", So that You Don't have to Die and go to Hell. The fornicator, liar, murderer, adulterer, whoremonger......ETC. I use to be involved in gay sex, But JESUS saved me from that, and HE can, and Will If You Give your Life to HIM, Asking GOD for forgiveness for your sins, and that You Accept Christ as Your LORD and Savior, Because You know that JESUS Died on The Cross for your sins. Then, Ask JESUS to Come into Your Heart, and HE Will! HE Loves Us, and Wants Us to spend Eternity with HIM!
I would counter-argue your point with the simple fact that your perspective is that of a straight man, not a gay man. Of course your going to think that there is a special bond between man and woman.
I miss Patrice. One of a kind.
His point mostly seems to be "Why should I feel obligated to support your cause when it's just about choosing who you love? I don't care, do what you want, but black people had worse problems" Which, honestly, is a much _better_ point than what other people think Patrice is saying lol. Something I never thought about, either. Kinda progressive for the early 2010s also
Ugh, they totally missed his point. He was saying that he doesn't understand how homosexuality went from a fetish to an identity. That's a legitimate question.
+Kenny Barringer It was never a fetish
JackFlash85 it was something straight men snuck out of their houses for.
+Kenny Barringer so what are you saying? There are no "gay" men, just men with a kink?
JackFlash85 In the old days yeah. I'm not trying to be homophobic. It's not hard for marital/sexual standards to change. Polygamy was fine not too long ago. Sexual attraction is totally cultural. That's why Patrice doesn't really give a fuck. People's "sexual identity" is retarded.
the question "how did homosexuality go from a fetish to an identity?" is like saying "how did the earth go from being flat to round?"
Homosexuality didn't change. Ignorance of what it meant did.
Patrice is brilliant. Couldn't care less if you are gay, but who says that flaunting and defining one's sexuality publicly as if that is the end all and be all of one's existence isn't offensive and tasteless.
Straights don't do that shit. Patrice is too deep for Jimmy.
No. Jimmy is stubborn and will receive butt pain and emotions only over specific topics. You can tell his fee fees are being tested
The Serf Patrice is an ass
Where have you been hiding? Sexuality is on full display nowadays…. They weren’t accepted when people dressed sensibly. Now they want to flaunt their body parts and PDA like everyone else is doing!
It IS disgusting and tasteless but they certainly should be able to since everyone else does...
We need to improve SOCIETY so that EVERYONE dresses acts right in public - and no one cares what goes on in adult and consensual privacy!
Patrice nailed it.
I love Patrice because as a white gay man he challenges me to think different and to take the other position. There were parts of this conversation that frustrates me and other parts that a was nodding in agreement. Patrice was a special guy who was suspicious of anyone trying to control what he thought, and that’s what I suspect is going on here. He wants to be his authentic self and say whatever he wants without being afraid. And I totally agree. The LGBT community can sometimes be just as vicious and judgmental as some clergy and religious folk and it’s simply hypocrisy. We sometimes think we are better than others, but we are not.
FAG
Shut up, stupid.
So is being gay a choice or are they born gay? I don’t understand which answer is the right one
I’ve heard of gay people being offended by people saying it’s a choice and I’ve also heard of ones that get offended by people that say they are born that way I don’t get it
@@okilladmityouarerightbut4827 to be honest, I don’t know. If being gay simply means you’re attracted to a person of the same biological sex, then I don’t think we are born that way because babies are asexual. 😂 but do I think there are powerful genetic and environment influences that will eventually determine someone’s sexual orientation, yes. Once someone’s sexual orientation is fixed around 16, it basically won’t change. So not born that way, but also we don’t have a choice.
Norton ‘I’m not gay’
Yes you are Jimmy
to quote patrice ... "Ready?"... women being scared to be seen as sluts and whores is equivalent to guys not wanting to be seen as gay or bi ... nothing to do with gay marriage, but just an observation I've made
Go on.
“I think most people are born gay”
- no Opie, just you
Weird how you leave out that he was agreeing with Jimmy, wonder why?
@@TL2354 cause people still feel the need to be mad at Opie for the show ending after almost a whole decade
@@SuptricLucid101never liked Opie...he's fake
patrice laid it all out in plain english. some other comments seemed corporate sponsored influence.
straight up
Jimmy's gay so he's delusional
Comparing sexuality to race is crazy. There is literally ZERO arguments against what color a person is born. The same can't be said for sexuality
Jimmy’s absolutely, I rarely disagree with Patrice but he’s not very empathetic towards people who are in love
But he was right. it's sickening what it has become.
@@SlickArmor what has it become.
@@kristoamadeus4441 exactly!!
Patrice was a genius.
Facts
@@odogtheownerofthelot
Real talk
GOT DAMN! WE NEED PATRICE BACK NOW!
hopefully we'll be able to look back and laugh at this within a generation from now.
We're not laughing. They now want to teach this crap in kindergarten now that it became normalized. Now I wish we could go back and strike this crap down.
Bad news…
Oh how times have changed
I’ve come from the future to say…. It didn’t. It never stops in just one place. It invariably keeps moving. Look up NAMBLA and “MAPS.” 2023 is disgusting.
"Now you understand how whitey thinks" that was a hell of a good point by Opie.
patrice was pretty hypocritical in that respect, always quick to put down any other fringe groups civil rights movements outside of his own
Jimmy's such a little sweetheart.
He's actually a progressive little mollusc
Damn, they used to have some great conversations back then. What happened?
Patrice died and Cumia got fired.
+Joj0wild Precisely. Now it's about what brand of ketchup Sam and Opie think is best. Ugh.
Patrice is making sense on most of the "gay" thing, but his take on abortion is wildly idiotic. It literally IS the woman's body. SHE is the one who is pregnant. HER body is pregnant. That is what "My body, my choice" means, dummy. It doesn't mean "The embryo/fetus is part of my body." Holy hell people are stupid/clueless.
Have to give props to Jimmy here. He has the logic, knowledge, and empathy to understand and argue for gay people's need to be recognized as equals to the rest of humanity. His ability to put himself in their shoes, plus his calm yet passionate debating style, easily overcomes Patrice's logic and stance on this issue. I like Patrice as a comedian and as a person, but his logic and way of thinking seems based just on his uninformed opinions and feelings, which is disappointing to see.
I’m big on freedom for consenting adults, but the thing that gets me is that people who talk about sex all the time or make their sexuality the most defining aspect of who they are are just deeply boring people. We all have crotches, we all like to do stuff with our crotches. Of course! That makes it kind of boring. What else do you love, steak? Sunshine? The beach? Puppies? Of course you do! It’s a cliche at a point.
Some people are so over the top that they just become caricatures of that which they are.
I’d say that to my straight friend too, or if I had a friend who likes the Mets too much as well. Anyone who is so into anything is just a boring person.
Patrice was such an intelligent man and nothing he said here was wrong. This isn't even a debate about gay marriage because, he agrees that gays should be allowed to get married. He sees it as a fetish like any other weird sex thing and I agree. People who like weird sex things usually keep it to themselves as they should but gays want everyone to know that they like getting poked in the pooper and they want everybody to praise it, that's what Patrice had a problem with. In this clip he used nothing but logic and I'm kind of disappointed in the comment section. Seeing the comments on this video really opened my eyes to how Americans were brainwashed into thinking gays are these mystical magical creatures and anyone that criticizes them are homophobic.
*Eastside Low Bottoms sh*t !*
_Tappin' in from South Central LA_
Where the alphabet mafia loses me is how they make the false equivalency of comparing their "struggles" to the experiences of Foundational Black Americans in this country. Theyve never been lynched in large numbers, redlined, jim crowed, etc. Sh*t, even to this day, that community is hard core biased against Black Americans.
Rest easy Big Homie 🙏🏾 We're listening.
🤜🏾💥🤛🏾
The real issue here and scariest thing is what Jimmy is proposing. He's proposing using legislation to help dictate society taste. You can't legislate as a means to change the way people think, you're creating a society that all thinks the same (which is dangerous), but they also think that way for the wrong reason, which would be fear.
No sir. You legislate as a means to treat people equally by law. You cant make people feel differently. Plus having everyone think that homophobia is wrong isnt dangerous.
+MrBackoftheface no sir. It's a vote. Amendments are voted on by congress. Congress is voted in by us, the people. They are YOUR representatives and YOU control them... They can not pass laws wildly-nilly. Legislating morality is a slippery slope because who owns flawless logic? Who's got the recipe for perfection? Maybe INGSOC?
But forcing people to "not be homophobic" is dangerous
Man, listening back to these older O+A clips, Patrice was fucking prophetic with a lot of predictions. He saw that this topic is the “slippery slope”, which helped lead Bruce Jenner to be named “woman of the year”. It’s a slippery slope alright, and we fell dick-first down it. Fuck.
AKA gender neutral bathrooms
I'm with Patrice in that I believe in God but question religion. If religious leaders didn't have a history or abusing their beliefs on people I would probably be more religious. But I am not going to let some preacher trying to convince me God needs him to have a mega church and flying a jet and making $50 million but there are still poor people or expecting the congregation to pay for everything.
Screw that, reminds me of when I read about how the church pre-Martin Luther used to tell people they can pay their way into heaven. That sounds like a scam to me. And I feel like I can believe in God and question all of those practices.
@ninjast4r you have no idea what his or my concept of "God" is, you're assuming it's the exact same thing as yours. Because you still have some learning to do I suspect. God to me has nothing to do with santa claus or religion, it's a faith I have developed from real life experience. To me, after growing up some, my world would not make any sense if I still thought like you about "God"
@ninjast4r Also, you say "he" when referring to God and that shows that you have no idea what I'm talking about
Agree or disagree, it’s so important to be able to have conversations like this instead of crucifying someone for challenging your beliefs. Liberals and conservatives do it so don’t hit me with a one sided argument in the replies.
You can't change every mind. But if you never try, you won't change any.
Patrice was too good for this world
Patrice is wrong here (don't worry Patrice fanboys, he was right on most things but like all humans, he wasn't immune from mistakes). He's conflating fetishes with sexual orientation. Not the same thing. Another example of why street smarts are no substitute for actually educating yourself. Patrice was an odd combination of very street smart but woefully ignorant about basic science.
man o man this show needs patrice
I don't agree at all with gay marriage. That's just my opinion.
How come?
patrice was so ahead of his time
Some were born gay but some were sucked into it.
All people should hear this. Wish Times Square would air it.
Patrice Parade
At 15:25 when he said your shaking your head..I was shaking my head no at the same time.
Were you really?
what number is the entire episode for o&a patrice
when was this??? please anyone
Jimmy is spot on as always. He's a wonderful debater
+Anfubvinch really? LOL he is _extremely_ ignorant regarding the issues, religious beliefs in particular.
Kim Little
aww how sweet.
Kristjen Štjuprić
How is he ignorant ?
Video basically ends just 5 seconds in.
I love how he always compares it to some violent sex act like it's equivalent 😂
His comparisons we're god tier ”Why is it okay for you to fuck a man in the ass but I cant rape a bitch on Tuesday??”
@@zalenahquaddy4354 more like devil tier 😬
It's not violent because it's done in a way that's safe.
It's just as much as a part of sexuality as being gay.
It is.
It drives me fucking crazy the way everyone says gay people must be "born gay" because they clearly don't choose it. That's a false dichotomy, it's not one or the other. Just because you don't choose your sexuality doesn't mean it's genetic or something determined _in the womb_ for fuck's sake. You don't choose to be afraid of spiders or open spaces but are you telling me people are born arachnophobic and agoraphobic? Of course they aren't. Just because something is involuntary doesn't mean it's something in you from birth. It's mind-boggling how everyone chooses to see it this way on this one issue.
I see no evidence whatsoever that people are born homosexual - or heterosexual, for that matter - at all. And it seems entirely possible, and even much more likely, that sexuality is something that develops over time as someone goes through puberty. It's 100% involuntary for sure, but why everyone acts like because it's involuntary it _must_ therefore be something you're born with is beyond me.
Bingo!! nobody is born being into bondage, anal, sex with animals, or any other sexual deviancy. We do have an innate sexual drive that is hormonally driven. Some peoples hormones give them a higher sex drive than others but we all have a natural drive to reproduce our species. The higher the intelligence in the species, the more ability to control your natural drives (such as sexuality, eating habits, or other impulses linked to survival). So, the more indulgant you are with your natural impulses, usually is just an indicator of low intelligence (ever see a pride parade???) or just a total lack of self control, nothing more.
We are all born with a sex drive and all born needing to eat. Some people deviate to unhealthy sexuality (homosexuality, bestiality, necrophilia, etc) and some people deviate to unhealthy eating disorders. You are not born bulimic and you are not born gay. you simply let your natural impulses take you to an unhealthy place.
What's the difference between being thrilled at the sight sports car and the sight of a woman?
Much love Patrice
I hate how Jimmy talks like his word is not up for debate.
One of the rare times Patrice seemed to be struggling in an argument. Jimmy out debated Patrice on this one badly
How so?
Nah
Jimmy didn't out debate Patrice, it's just that Patrice was trying to articulate view that was unpopular at the time while Jimmy was making the popular point.
Fast forward a decade and Dave Chappelle and others are taking the position that "my body my choice" makes no sense. And also, Patrice was predicting that the gay community would become more authoritarian AND THEY HAVE.
Bottom line, Patrice was ahead of his time once again.
@@nickdipaolofan5948 I don't think the gay community has become authoritarian, unless you're referring to the entire LGBT community. Then yeah, or the loud ones at least...
@@BananaPhoPhilly you don't need every single gay person to be authoritarian in order for the generalization to be correct. In general, the gay community (and it's "allies") are the ones forcing others to celebrate their lifestyles OR ELSE. And the gay community are the ones who have bundled themselves as the LGBTQRXYZ community. So when someone is in fear of losing their job because they said the wrong pronoun, that IS the gay community. When someone has to endure their kids being read to by drag queens at the public school, that IS the gay community. when a business owner gets sued because they don't wish to participate in the celebration of a gay wedding, that IS the gay community. When a tax payer is paying taxes so public forms can be updated to add 50 made up genders, that IS the gay community.
I could go on........................and on. But you get the idea.
Dude was a comic genius
I'm disagreeing with Patrice for the first time, Jimmy is right.
God Norton is killing it through this whole piece. The only thing I wish he'd say is "Patrice, there used to be a time when it wasn't safe to be black in parts of this country. People would attack you, you couldn't get jobs, etc. That's civil/human rights. What you're missing when you say "educate me" is that gay people are dealing with that now. kids in high school aren't safe to be gay. And its not because you make jokes, its intolerance. That's what opressed people want changed."
Oh Jesus...
No one owned gay slaves for 400+ years.
If you've ever been in love you know that the love for your partner isn't the same that you feel for your friends. It's not just sexual.
whats fucked up is i didnt get into patrices material until november 2011, you do the math .... eerie as hell
there's a clip that Key and Peele have that hits the nail on the head perfectly.
Desire and action are not the same. That's how Patrice saw it I think. You define a homosexual as anyone who has the desire, whilst I think Patrice's definition defined a homosexual as someone who has actually had gay sex. Who's to say which definition is really correct...
The best that ever was... the legend!
Patrice made no sense throughout this entire debate
No, I think I disagree with that. It's the ACTION of having sex with someone of the same sex that qualifies one as a homosexual, not the DESIRE to do it. Just like someone who longs to play piano is not a piano player until they actually....well, play piano. People gay and straight have lots of desires connected with their sexuality. Example; I may wish to be tied up and whipped, but I'm not a submissive into S&M until I actually get tied up and whipped. Fantasy and reality are not the same.
He said yes with no hesitation. Patrice was something like righteous.
I am here telling you that Patrice's definition is wrong because that is not how sexuality is defined. That is not my opinion.
zero fucking facts being brought up by jimmy and opie... patrice is bringing logic in there.
Hmm…I love his honesty. I’m a deep Patrice fan, this is the first time I’ve heard him put a thought out and thought he was completely wrong. I’m not assuming he’s asking these questions with anger or bigotry. He’s wrong because he doesn’t understand why gay people would want to fight as hard s they are for space in society…I would have loved to talk to him about it. People don’t talk as honestly s him any more, I hate it. fun thought experiment for sure.
He was wrong several times on O and A in my memory in these types of ideological debates. And he clearly was wrong here. To quote the great CQ though, even when he was wrong, he was still interesting.
I know they always made fun of Steve C about having gay characteristics but was he actually gay??
He had a wife and son but idk
You just blew my mind, good sir.
7:30 he adresses your point.
I like how you jump into the "typical arguments". I'm not religious.
He was raised in a black family. Almost all American blacks are religious in some form or another.
"Born with it" is simplistic. Something like 5% of male children are sexually abused, and "A well documented long term negative effect is repeated or additional victimization in adolescence and adulthood."
Overall LGBT population in US is about 3.8%; probably under reported.
Similarly, 18% of female children are abused sexually; 95% of prostitutes were victims of childhood sexual trauma.
People use this "born with it," IMO, b/c the reality of the situation is too horrible to contemplate.
Absolutely disagree with Patrice. This is one of the fee times he spouting nonsense but trying to make it sound like he has a point.
Junji Ito yeah it’s like he just keeps saying words that don’t form any kind of cognitive argument. Sometimes he makes great points but sometimes he just talked in circles
@ivandag510 I've noticed that most Latin males who are gay pretty much are the stereotypical gay person that Conservatives are afraid of - over the top, flamboyant, demonstratively feminine.
Patrice once again could see the future. The most extreme radical people go after kids because they don’t have kids of their own. That goes for priests and people who want to dance sexually in front of kids alike.
I miss patrice.
Nah dude I couldnt disagree more, I believe nobody is born gay, it's all about parenting and or exposure to conditioning. That's as logical as I can put it. Prove me wrong
I agree, gays only in the last 40 or so years started trying to say they were born that way. It is a sexual preference just like Patrice is saying. Patrice preferred to choke his woman while she was climaxing. He was not born wanting to do that, it is a sexual preference he developed.
Yes! I agree with you, MrLamarski. It's a theory I've had swirling in my head for awhile now.
Marriage is not only for the religious...if it was then how do atheists get married?? Gays don't want validation from the church they want the exact same rights any straight person has..and currently any state that doesn't have gay marriage has no way to give a gay couple the same rights as a straight couple...why not just make it so the government views marriage as between 2 consenting people?
They do, as individuals, have the same rights as straight people. It's their relationship with someone else they want recognized by the gov't as a pair. I don't have any problem with gays getting married but you say they view marriage as between 2 consenting people but why can it only be 2? Are you opposed to polygamy?
neato mosque No as an individual they cannot marry they person they love like a straight person can, not with the STATES approval. A gay couple cannot file taxes as Married, that's a privilege straight people have ATM. When an unmarried gay man is sick and dying in the hospital and is in ICU the only people that can visit him are FAMILY.. and his partner would not be FAMILY. Also Wills can be contested and have been contested so that gay's ended up with nothing from their dead partners. This wouldn't happen if Marriage was defined as between two people. From a STATE pov I believe polygamy is illegal, but gay marriage is not illegal it is just not recognized by the STATE. I could ask if you believe in Bigamy or other forms of marriage but i don't care. Gays getting married harms NOONE, churches don't have to do ceremonies if they don't want to.
Vladdamyre All the things you said are for couples, not individuals. I'm straight and I can't file taxes as married either. I already said I don't have any problem with gays getting married, I just think there aren't any arguments for gay marriage that you can't make for polygamy or other kinds of marriage so since the request is to change which marriages are supported by gov't, there should be nothing wrong with adding multiple-person marriages as well. It would be hard for you disagree without doing what Patrice is being accused of here which is getting what you want and saying to hell with everyone else.
Vladdamyre
Honestly, I think marriage should be re-examined when it comes to which are recognized, and certainly divorce laws need to be fixed. I'm not a big fan of marriage in general but since married couples do get privileges that singles don't, I say anybody who wants to get married should be able to.
neato mosque Well first off polygamy and bigamy are illegal..and have been for years. The biggest opponent to polygamy is that it is oppressive to women. Personally I don't actually care if it where legal. I do think Bigamy though should not be legal, it's essentially an attempt to have a contract to work for 2 companies without affecting the relationship with either company. It's just not going to happen and will only cause problems.
i gotta say people are hating on patrice but i understand where he's coming from. Atleast he's honest enough to be pro-gay marriage.
@JP
I totally agree!!
And straight parents outnumber gay parents 1000:1 so course they are going to raise more gay children. Ber you thought YOU were pretty clever for a second.
Enjoy the divorce process.
That's exactly how I see it. We don't agree but can at least exchange and debate an idea to some sort of amicable if not mutual conclusion.
@tredavi I agree with you, but you should know that, in effect, you are disagreeing -with Patrice (which a lot of people seem to be afraid to do). Patrice seems to be going off on some "Do you want to be respected or do you want your rights?" thing, as if THAT's the issue. Equal rights are the matter at hand. Norton was on the money when he said that once people interact, thing will smooth over. The amount of concessions that Patrice makes kind of kill his arguments
wow im genuinely impressed that norton defended homosexuality so strongly.
That's kind of the point. It shouldn't matter. What 2 consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home isn't anyone's business. As long as it's not hurting anyone or anything. Considering a lot of gay people live their lives hiding it for years and are treated just like everyone else suggests that, and this is a shocker, they are just like everyone else.
When you marry you go to God but when divorced you go to court
Omg this guy is so goddamn right
It is crazy how a comedian who was a swinger and an admitted sexual deviant completely made the most compelling case for what most Christians believe (that homosexuality is simply a behavior and not really innate)
@@nickdipaolofan5948
Patrice is wrong. Here's why. He's asking what is it beyond the intercourse part? It's based on what he talks about all the time. Patrice talks about the nature of men and women. All his talk about "bitches" and how "men" are, how they each have specific characteristics; many homosexuals (I don't know exactly how it breaks down) LOVE the NATURE of the SAME biological sex. THEY LOVE how people of the same sex act, outside of the bed. Physical and psychological characteristics.
@@PlayNiceFolks so what? those two are separate issues. I am a man who prefers the company of other men (IE, having conversations, telling jokes, hanging out at parties, etc) but I have zero sexual attraction to males. SEXuality is about sex. Most men and most women do in fact prefer the company of their own gender over their counterparts because they understand each other better. Sex is how you get your rocks off, whether it be same sex, heterosex, donkey sex, blow up doll, what ever.
@@nickdipaolofan5948
Heterosexual relationships aren't worth anything special aside from the addition of being able to reproduce children.
@@nickdipaolofan5948
I don't understand the need to belittle homosexual relationships. I suspect it still boils down to y'all's "ick" feeling, and you will use any argument to justify that feeling. Including a religious Argument.
Considered and dismissed.
@MaryWaterton self control, and not hurting people should apply
That's hilarious. Jesus who looks like Tom Petty.
Love and sexual attraction are completely different. You love your mom, don't you? You love your dog?
Can a dude marry his dog?
@@scottdavis4388 soon, unfortunately
Most importantly Patrice's point is irrelevant to the topic, and I think that's why there is confusion. Even if he got his point across, the topic is that discrimination and unfair treatment are in place and need to go.
The platform that Patrice is ignoring is "Discrimination", not what is being discriminated against. Patrice is talking suffering Olympics, blacks can't hide etc... this is not a discussion about if LGBTQ suffer the SAME discrimination as blacks. Patrice was a comedic genius, but also he wasn't that bright.
On black Philip he caused confusion once because he didn't know the difference between hole and whole. Most of the dudes attached to O&A are extremely funny, but they are also crude and under-educated. I'm not making fun or judging, their speech is evidence enough for the point I'm making.
The thing is, a black guy walking down the street is a black guy walking down the street and could be treated badly according to that.
A gay dude walking down the street is only possibly in trouble if he advertises it.
Plus, it's impossible to exist in a world without categories and marginalization. You can try to diminish the unfair kinds of marginalization, and you can do it successfully, but why is the marginalization of homosexuality less right that the marginalization of liking to "tie a bitch up and pee on her", as Patrice would say.
Come on Patrice... How come Jimmy is the voice of reason and the only one making sense in this conversation? It's not a difficult concept to grasp... Never the less RIP Patrice, I hope he got to grips and found his answer to this issue before he headed up to the big BBQ cook off in he sky!
coogi's just a clothing brand. biggie used to talk about wearing coogi sweaters a lot back in the day
Now norton is married to a man. 😆 god i wish Patrice was still alive
He isn't though, so what now? Why do you wish he was still alive? To try and convince someone who isn't hetero that they should be? for what and to what end? Absolute moron behaviour
it's very important to learn to distinguish the difference between things that are "normal" and things that are "the norm"..."the norm" implies that it's the default position,or at least very nearly so,"normal" implies that it happens all the time,and shouldn't be regarded as unusual. homosexuality is "normal" in a very large number of species (perhaps thousands). so just because it isn't "the norm" doesn't mean it's not normal.
It depends on how you define a homosexual. My belief is that, right or wrong, Patrice himself defined (for example) male homosexuality as one man having sex with another as opposed to the DESIRE of one man to have sex with another. In other words, if you're thinking about it but not doing it you are not in fact gay. And, if you are doing it, why is your choice as a man to have sex with another man any more noteworthy than, say, Patrice's choice to have sex with a woman.
GOD cares, That's Why HE says, "REPENT", So that You Don't have to Die and go to Hell. The fornicator, liar, murderer, adulterer, whoremonger......ETC. I use to be involved in gay sex, But JESUS saved me from that, and HE can, and Will If You Give your Life to HIM, Asking GOD for forgiveness for your sins, and that You Accept Christ as Your LORD and Savior, Because You know that JESUS Died on The Cross for your sins. Then, Ask JESUS to Come into Your Heart, and HE Will! HE Loves Us, and Wants Us to spend Eternity with HIM!
Babies apartment building lolol
Sorry for the spelling errors. Really hard to comment on the IPhone
holy shit never thought about it like that.. it could very well be
I would counter-argue your point with the simple fact that your perspective is that of a straight man, not a gay man. Of course your going to think that there is a special bond between man and woman.
It's not a black thing, its a religion thing. You'll find that a lot of religious people don't want civil equality for gays.
Research would indicate otherwise.
I agree... also, look into the 'sneaky fucker' theory. Homosexuality can be seen in many other species other than human.