Honestly. i don't know what to say other than thank you V! this means so much for someone who's starting out. Discussing topics like "More Echo EXP" has so much nuance and i love to see everyone chiming in with their perspectives and experiences Much love gramps! ♥
heard a very good point from another CC (Holiest) saying that ppl will ALWAYS have the impression that they dont have enough echo exp cuz the echo system is just fundamentally different from other gachas, they kinda work in reverse. with the echo system, you would almost always have echoes readily available to upgrade since you can grind for them endlessly, youre only missing the experience which you would then farm for days ahead; but in like Genshin, almost always you wouldve been farming for days before finally getting the artifact you needed to upgrade to which youve already farmed the exp for. IMO the bigger problem is the 5/5 set piece requirement, id rather we keep the current echo exp rate but nerf the echo set requirement to just 4/5. i feel like having an off-piece would be better in the long run since it gives you 2 options: halves the grind for 3-cost echoes cuz you can use an off-piece as substitute, or get an off-set echo for a different active you want that is not available in the set (could be OP tho but is huge in terms of team customization).
Let's be real, that echo exp problems are whale problem. If you dump 240 waveplates on tacet field, you would be able to level up your echo around +20-23, as per Union level 47, I got around 80 premium tuner. So in one day, you can test your luck with 1 echo, and roll 4 substats. Let's say the first echo roll horribly, you can feed it to another echo and roll 3-4 substat. That is completely reasonable for f2p and casual in my opinion. In Genshin, it's been 6 month since I farming energy recharge sands on Melilith set and I still haven't get a usable one. Even if I get it, it has massive chance to roll horribly anyway.
Let me correct you on that. It is the people that want to rush contents, not only WHALE problem. Echo EXP was never a problem to begin with. Shells are more bigger problem because it get drained so fast. You can dump waveplates on tacet field, ok sure but still Yield the same result, you are not getting more out of that except for faster progression on Echoes lvling.
Thats true..im still farming a good 4 piece set with neuvillette ever since he realesed...but i have good echoes for my yinlin but just need exp. At least i already have the good echo/artifact set.
I disagree that it’s a problem. If farming for quality echos is easy, that means that Kuro Games can introduce more combat endgame without the fear of alienating Midcores and Casuals, as access to strong builds will be within their reach.
I kinda like how it is. If they lower tacit cost to 40, that’s 2 extra runs we gotta do every day… also worth noting that most people aren’t doing many tacit fields yet because we started with all chars at lvl 0 (instead of later in the game where we get 1 char at a time). It’s better to use events/quests to give extra mats when necessary like at launch.
for me who doesn't have enough astrites to draw any weapon, I'm betting my strength on the echos so getting 5stars early gives me a little more power to fight longer.. my weapons are still 4 stars and i can't pull because astrites are so few.. since it's double tacet now, I don't have any problem with echo exp...
The Echo exp is not really that bad , what is really bad is the cost of upgrading the Echos , it can get you broke very very fast , and credits do not fall from the sky
Funfact: Apparently Genshite impact costs ROUGHLY, 2.5x more exp for character leveling but ROUGHLY 2.5x less mora vs Wuthering Waves which technically means non-wavematter acquired exp gains on WuWa is alot more valuable, which means you can focus more on dumping weekly/monthly reset gains would end up being more useful towards credits as a result. Though it would be nice if they they trim the credit cost down a bit, but again, it might be more balanced out as the weeks go on and we dont need to level as many units at a time.
Artifacts/relics are harder to farm but easier to level while echoes are easier to farm but harder to level. I guess that's the tradeoff for this kind of system. If anything I just want to be able to trash some useless echoes for tuners, but it's fair enough that we have to do tacet fields for exp.
tuners are 100 % the worst and the only way you can get them fast is the taced fields i hope they do find a fix ... also they announced they were going to reduce the exp to lvl up echos
One thing that burned me out of genshin is that the only thing to do in that game after the msq is farming artifact. And i gave up after doing that electro domain in inazuma for 3-4 months straight and didnt get any good piece. There should be a balance even if its rng imo. And currently for WuWa i think it's fine. But i do want more tuners to be refunded when feeding it to another acho. Currently when we feed an echo we get back 70% of the exp but only 30% of the tuners. Bump that % to 60 or 70 and i would be happy with that tbh.
I think, that collecting the Gold Echoes earlier was a good move, to get the community over to WuWa, cause we are used to dead patches and bad main/ sub stats etc. but to be honest, i am trying to build my Danjin now at UL 40 and she good, she fun, but those lvl 20 Echoes are not perfect or even very good. And i found like 4~5 3cost Echoes with the right main stat. It feels slow anyway, to see around 4 Echoes i could roll on during the Week, when i get my Tuners back or Echo XP, or Cash :D. The “Working on the right stats” still works, it just wasnt slow at the start and then horrible at the End. But rather fast at the start and eh also kinda horrible, depending on who you ask and how sweaty you want that 0,3% dmg increase :p
I think the reason why we cannot feed echoes as experience is due to balancing reason. Other games can do it because they cannot endless farm gear without some form of time gate. If we could feed echoes as exp, players with more free time is always get ahead. Which wouldn’t feel good for the average player. It incentivises an unhealthy grind. People will feel pressured to farm, which would lead to faster burn out, which would in turn cause more players to leave. I think a good compromise would be to allow only echoes that we earn as rewards can be converted into exp, for example from our daily mission, tacet field, events etc.
the echoes them self is good it's just that EXP is scarese. The waveplates and events give us more Echo exp. the only thing that we are complain is exp problem other that Wuthering wave dev give us more and new echoes every update.
Personally I prefer more complex system than just raw copy paste of artifacts from genshin, they should've taken some inspiration from MMOs those old mmo games, e.g. weapon runes or gems slot? echo stat slot? and maybe equiring those valuable gems or runes drops from skill based bosses such as hologram or maybe some other challenging gameplay instead of making everything 100% luck gated. In my mind a mix of luck and skill gated reward is more interesting than me frustrated about not being lucky, I rather frustrated about my skill not good enough than that. I quit genshin because of the exact issue you mentioned, the stat won't show up, so I just quit the game instead.
I dunno if its luck issue but i find getting 33 set with same element easier in tacit fields than farming them in the overworld and with the introduction of lv21 databank itll be a lot easier imo.
Me too, All of my characters already have their respective 3 cost echoes with the same element and I never refill my waveplates, I only refill when using forgery. My main team already maxed their echoes. As long as there are Crit rate or Crit damage in the substats, Im okay with that.
If they miscalculated the whole echo progression (which is very likely) they might just have to release 6 star echoes somewhere down the line to give players something to strive for again. I don't mean right away, of course, but maybe one year, two years down the line.
I'll be real with this shit, reason I got burned out with Genshin was EXACTLY because of farming as that was the only considerable content to do after everything else is done. This maybe more so than the quests and exploration. Now it's happening to me in WuWa and I ain't got no patience for that shit anymore. Why do I mind it here but not in HSR? Because it feels way more tedious in the open world than in HSR which is very instance based and automated, that already changes a lot. If WuWa should do something then it has to be focusing on more endgame modes, coop stuff etc... Kill the farm and add the fun
Like okay, you run out of content fast, but you don't need to only play ONE game. I'm patiently waiting for 1.1, i do my dailies, farm a bit of echoes then log off play something else. I don't understand why people need one single forever infinite game
They cant copy it from hoyoverse because in hoyo you farm artifacts through daily stamina while you can farm artifacts infinitely in wuthering waves. Being able to level up echos in wuthering waves with other echos makes the game more grinder than it already is. Additionally your suppose to grind for artifacts in everyday in other games to keep you coming back. The difference is that in this game they do the opposite in you can farm the artifacts/ echos all you want but you have to farm the level material everyday
I think most of these gacha players are definitely coming into WuWa from other established games/gachas and expecting it to be already at a faster pace of development. I like the rate I play the game as of right now, just log in not to overcap, farm a lil, and move on with my life. Most people that want to min max day 1 should play something else, there's a lot of cool games released right now that putting all your time into one game is kinda silly.
Echo progress is just way way way too fast. And also people shouldn't be able to clear the hardest content this fast even for a 66 whale. It should be like 3 month into the game.
I'm very confused, since the general statement for WuWa when it launched was allegedly: "Let them cook, they're working so hard, so much compensation" etc. But as time went by many of the people who stated this very quickly switched up and started agreeing with the actual issues which most people openly admitted that they never even knew existed or always use the standard: "So I just didn't have these issues" with some people going beyond reasoning and claiming that the claims were astroturfing, but again when Devs notes came out it was hard to disagree with the Devs themselves saying: "Yeah we messed up but here some rewards because we got the DEVS LISTEN buff" Indeed Wuthering Waves is truly a "masterpiece"
We're still in 1.0 in WuWa. The echoes issue would be addressed as time goes on. Remember in Genshin and the incredibly low 120 resin and 60 resin cost in Trounce Domains (there's no half cost during that time)? Those can be fixed. And Kuro seems to be more receptive to feedback compared to Genshin so I'm more confident those echo issues would be addressed faster.
XP rewards in events were pathetic and they buffed them. Tacet fields were never an issue and were never mentioned in the dev notes. The only issue that was people farming the entire map every day min maxing echos. Besides the only place echos matter is endgame towers and holograms so it doesn't even matter.
@@O_Kay12- What do you mean then? The constant complaints I saw were about echo xp from tacet fields and nowhere in the dev notes did they say yeah we messed up in tacet fields.
Honestly. i don't know what to say other than thank you V! this means so much for someone who's starting out. Discussing topics like "More Echo EXP" has so much nuance and i love to see everyone chiming in with their perspectives and experiences
Much love gramps! ♥
heard a very good point from another CC (Holiest) saying that ppl will ALWAYS have the impression that they dont have enough echo exp cuz the echo system is just fundamentally different from other gachas, they kinda work in reverse.
with the echo system, you would almost always have echoes readily available to upgrade since you can grind for them endlessly, youre only missing the experience which you would then farm for days ahead; but in like Genshin, almost always you wouldve been farming for days before finally getting the artifact you needed to upgrade to which youve already farmed the exp for.
IMO the bigger problem is the 5/5 set piece requirement, id rather we keep the current echo exp rate but nerf the echo set requirement to just 4/5. i feel like having an off-piece would be better in the long run since it gives you 2 options: halves the grind for 3-cost echoes cuz you can use an off-piece as substitute, or get an off-set echo for a different active you want that is not available in the set (could be OP tho but is huge in terms of team customization).
Im afraid that if sets were 4 piece then we would only see double dreamless everywhere.
Let's be real, that echo exp problems are whale problem. If you dump 240 waveplates on tacet field, you would be able to level up your echo around +20-23, as per Union level 47, I got around 80 premium tuner. So in one day, you can test your luck with 1 echo, and roll 4 substats. Let's say the first echo roll horribly, you can feed it to another echo and roll 3-4 substat. That is completely reasonable for f2p and casual in my opinion.
In Genshin, it's been 6 month since I farming energy recharge sands on Melilith set and I still haven't get a usable one. Even if I get it, it has massive chance to roll horribly anyway.
PREACH
Let me correct you on that. It is the people that want to rush contents, not only WHALE problem. Echo EXP was never a problem to begin with. Shells are more bigger problem because it get drained so fast. You can dump waveplates on tacet field, ok sure but still Yield the same result, you are not getting more out of that except for faster progression on Echoes lvling.
is this exp with the current tacet field event?
@@kokoala9354 no. Tested it multiple time before the event. With current event, I will get 140 premium tuner instead of 80.
Thats true..im still farming a good 4 piece set with neuvillette ever since he realesed...but i have good echoes for my yinlin but just need exp. At least i already have the good echo/artifact set.
Mfs tryna hit that 100% game completion release then complaining they dont have anything to do anymore 🗣
I disagree that it’s a problem.
If farming for quality echos is easy, that means that Kuro Games can introduce more combat endgame without the fear of alienating Midcores and Casuals, as access to strong builds will be within their reach.
I kinda like how it is. If they lower tacit cost to 40, that’s 2 extra runs we gotta do every day… also worth noting that most people aren’t doing many tacit fields yet because we started with all chars at lvl 0 (instead of later in the game where we get 1 char at a time). It’s better to use events/quests to give extra mats when necessary like at launch.
for me who doesn't have enough astrites to draw any weapon, I'm betting my strength on the echos so getting 5stars early gives me a little more power to fight longer.. my weapons are still 4 stars and i can't pull because astrites are so few.. since it's double tacet now, I don't have any problem with echo exp...
The Echo exp is not really that bad , what is really bad is the cost of upgrading the Echos , it can get you broke very very fast , and credits do not fall from the sky
Tuners is just 2nd the shell creds burns fast like snoop is the one hitting it
Funfact: Apparently Genshite impact costs ROUGHLY, 2.5x more exp for character leveling but ROUGHLY 2.5x less mora vs Wuthering Waves which technically means non-wavematter acquired exp gains on WuWa is alot more valuable, which means you can focus more on dumping weekly/monthly reset gains would end up being more useful towards credits as a result.
Though it would be nice if they they trim the credit cost down a bit, but again, it might be more balanced out as the weeks go on and we dont need to level as many units at a time.
Artifacts/relics are harder to farm but easier to level while echoes are easier to farm but harder to level. I guess that's the tradeoff for this kind of system. If anything I just want to be able to trash some useless echoes for tuners, but it's fair enough that we have to do tacet fields for exp.
not providing sauce is a cardinal sin
CAUGHT
tuners are 100 % the worst and the only way you can get them fast is the taced fields i hope they do find a fix ... also they announced they were going to reduce the exp to lvl up echos
One thing that burned me out of genshin is that the only thing to do in that game after the msq is farming artifact. And i gave up after doing that electro domain in inazuma for 3-4 months straight and didnt get any good piece.
There should be a balance even if its rng imo. And currently for WuWa i think it's fine. But i do want more tuners to be refunded when feeding it to another acho. Currently when we feed an echo we get back 70% of the exp but only 30% of the tuners. Bump that % to 60 or 70 and i would be happy with that tbh.
I think, that collecting the Gold Echoes earlier was a good move, to get the community over to WuWa, cause we are used to dead patches and bad main/ sub stats etc. but to be honest, i am trying to build my Danjin now at UL 40 and she good, she fun, but those lvl 20 Echoes are not perfect or even very good.
And i found like 4~5 3cost Echoes with the right main stat.
It feels slow anyway, to see around 4 Echoes i could roll on during the Week, when i get my Tuners back or Echo XP, or Cash :D.
The “Working on the right stats” still works, it just wasnt slow at the start and then horrible at the End.
But rather fast at the start and eh also kinda horrible, depending on who you ask and how sweaty you want that 0,3% dmg increase :p
I think the reason why we cannot feed echoes as experience is due to balancing reason. Other games can do it because they cannot endless farm gear without some form of time gate. If we could feed echoes as exp, players with more free time is always get ahead. Which wouldn’t feel good for the average player. It incentivises an unhealthy grind. People will feel pressured to farm, which would lead to faster burn out, which would in turn cause more players to leave. I think a good compromise would be to allow only echoes that we earn as rewards can be converted into exp, for example from our daily mission, tacet field, events etc.
the echoes them self is good it's just that EXP is scarese. The waveplates and events give us more Echo exp. the only thing that we are complain is exp problem other that Wuthering wave dev give us more and new echoes every update.
Trying to explain your favorite game to a non-gamer is like describing colors to a blind person.
I had this take in my RUclips review a few days ago.
Personally I prefer more complex system than just raw copy paste of artifacts from genshin, they should've taken some inspiration from MMOs those old mmo games, e.g. weapon runes or gems slot? echo stat slot? and maybe equiring those valuable gems or runes drops from skill based bosses such as hologram or maybe some other challenging gameplay instead of making everything 100% luck gated. In my mind a mix of luck and skill gated reward is more interesting than me frustrated about not being lucky, I rather frustrated about my skill not good enough than that.
I quit genshin because of the exact issue you mentioned, the stat won't show up, so I just quit the game instead.
feel free to make feedback to kuro if you guys like my idea, I ain't got the time to do that.
I dunno if its luck issue but i find getting 33 set with same element easier in tacit fields than farming them in the overworld and with the introduction of lv21 databank itll be a lot easier imo.
Me too, All of my characters already have their respective 3 cost echoes with the same element and I never refill my waveplates, I only refill when using forgery.
My main team already maxed their echoes. As long as there are Crit rate or Crit damage in the substats, Im okay with that.
you are just lucky. I cannot get electro 3cost at all. Nothing from fields, nothing from openworld.
@@LuZErTX If that's the case, use the echo selector that you get from the events.
@@LalalalaMhie i did. No crit substats.
@LuZErTX yeah, I got every single bonus in 3 cost in electro but guess what. got everything EXCEPT electro bonus 😂😅.
Im part of that group that want to perfect my character as soon as possible 😂
More star echos .6 stars and above and more sols , aka more progress
If they miscalculated the whole echo progression (which is very likely) they might just have to release 6 star echoes somewhere down the line to give players something to strive for again.
I don't mean right away, of course, but maybe one year, two years down the line.
You can literally fuse echos
I'll be real with this shit, reason I got burned out with Genshin was EXACTLY because of farming as that was the only considerable content to do after everything else is done. This maybe more so than the quests and exploration. Now it's happening to me in WuWa and I ain't got no patience for that shit anymore.
Why do I mind it here but not in HSR? Because it feels way more tedious in the open world than in HSR which is very instance based and automated, that already changes a lot.
If WuWa should do something then it has to be focusing on more endgame modes, coop stuff etc...
Kill the farm and add the fun
How long has the game been out ? ._.
Happening to me again in Wuwa when the game's just been out for a month😂😂
@@paradoxwraith5275 1 month
@@paradoxwraith5275 Well you did read I'm an ex-Genshin player so...I mean I'll hit that burnout much faster
i dropped hsr due to rng artifacts where you not only need crits but also specific speed stats for team to work. Its worse than genshin and wuwa.
Like okay, you run out of content fast, but you don't need to only play ONE game. I'm patiently waiting for 1.1, i do my dailies, farm a bit of echoes then log off play something else. I don't understand why people need one single forever infinite game
They cant copy it from hoyoverse because in hoyo you farm artifacts through daily stamina while you can farm artifacts infinitely in wuthering waves. Being able to level up echos in wuthering waves with other echos makes the game more grinder than it already is. Additionally your suppose to grind for artifacts in everyday in other games to keep you coming back. The difference is that in this game they do the opposite in you can farm the artifacts/ echos all you want but you have to farm the level material everyday
Game just at 1.0, we worry about end-game gear already? Back in Genshin I didn't even start to worry about gears until ar45 and end of liyue region 😅
You know you can combine echos right
data merge them yes, but i want to fuse them as in create new types of echoes by merging those two.
like a fusion between goku and vegeta
@@VxVFictioni think you and Anderson should merge to understand each other 😂
since when did bro get the camera?
recently hehe
but... 5greens can be merged to get 1-2 gold? exp isnt needed
Do a tutorial on luck? 😂
I think most of these gacha players are definitely coming into WuWa from other established games/gachas and expecting it to be already at a faster pace of development. I like the rate I play the game as of right now, just log in not to overcap, farm a lil, and move on with my life. Most people that want to min max day 1 should play something else, there's a lot of cool games released right now that putting all your time into one game is kinda silly.
Echo progress is just way way way too fast. And also people shouldn't be able to clear the hardest content this fast even for a 66 whale. It should be like 3 month into the game.
hi twitch
LMAOO
genshin could never🗣🗣💯💯
I'm very confused, since the general statement for WuWa when it launched was allegedly: "Let them cook, they're working so hard, so much compensation" etc.
But as time went by many of the people who stated this very quickly switched up and started agreeing with the actual issues which most people openly admitted that they never even knew existed or always use the standard: "So I just didn't have these issues" with some people going beyond reasoning and claiming that the claims were astroturfing, but again when Devs notes came out it was hard to disagree with the Devs themselves saying: "Yeah we messed up but here some rewards because we got the DEVS LISTEN buff"
Indeed Wuthering Waves is truly a "masterpiece"
We're still in 1.0 in WuWa. The echoes issue would be addressed as time goes on. Remember in Genshin and the incredibly low 120 resin and 60 resin cost in Trounce Domains (there's no half cost during that time)? Those can be fixed. And Kuro seems to be more receptive to feedback compared to Genshin so I'm more confident those echo issues would be addressed faster.
I don't know what to say to this since it has nothing to do with my point.
XP rewards in events were pathetic and they buffed them. Tacet fields were never an issue and were never mentioned in the dev notes. The only issue that was people farming the entire map every day min maxing echos. Besides the only place echos matter is endgame towers and holograms so it doesn't even matter.
I also don't know what to say to this, since it wasn't my point I made.
@@O_Kay12- What do you mean then? The constant complaints I saw were about echo xp from tacet fields and nowhere in the dev notes did they say yeah we messed up in tacet fields.
5min ago gramps