Jeep 4.0L Runs like "Garbage"? (Part 1 - Diagnosis)
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- Опубликовано: 15 мар 2024
- This 2001 Jeep Wrangler 4.0L is on its second engine at 379k miles.
According to the owner, it runs like GARBAGE...especially at idle and under acceleration.
It did make it to PHAD under its own power from 4 hours away.
Local shops have been STUMPED after replacing spark plugs and coil pack didn't fix anything.
Cranking it over, sure sounds like at least 1 cylinder is very low on COMPRESSION...
Let's diagnose this Jeep 4.0L and see if it can be repaired, or if it needs ANOTHER engine?!
PHAD PRESSURE TRANSDUCER:
www.pinehollowdiagnostics.com/...
IVAN'S PICO WAVEFORMS:
drive.google.com/drive/folder...
TESLONG NTS 500 BORESCOPE:
www.amazon.com/dp/B07SQ4FLYX?...
THINKTOOL PROS:
www.amazon.com/dp/B08XXWHQVJ?...
Enjoy!
Ivan 
Авто/Мото
“You could do this with a manual compression gauge and get the right cylinder”…pans to face…”But isn’t it cooler to do it with a pressure transducer “ 😂 quote of the day
Good morning Ivan from Suffolk England. Really enjoy watching your Video's 63 and still learning. Thank you for all the effort you put into them.
Regards Richard 🇬🇧
Suffolk, England here too. Ivan is the best.
Not Suffolk but Kent - still always eagerly await your videos
Not Suffolk but Houston Texas.... What ?? :)
Ivan, it is clear that this customer has exhausted all avenues of repair and you are the last resort; even adding the "Superman" spare tire cover obviously did NOTHING to help this Jeep in the least. It is just SO entertaining to hear you impersonate those engine noises. I live across the river from Metropolis, Illinois and see many of those covers. I'll never understand why people can't keep gas in their cars. GREAT VIDEO!
it's obvious that the #4 exhaust valve's seat is exhausted.
Hello from the Catsup bottle. Worked in Metro alot.
At first I use to hate your video because I knew nothing about pico scope and it was hard for me to understand the advance method of diagnosing. But I kept watching Many of your old and new video. And today I got a better understanding of how everything works and I just want to say thank you. everyone watching your videos can literally work on any vehicle ❤❤
Oh boy! Ivan vs. “It’s a Jeep Thing”, round 1. You know it’s good when Ivan jumps immediately to verifying compression precisely. Thanks for a fun lesson as always man. And yes, a Pressure Transducer is absolutely “cooler”!
Could be a shady reman company ground the hell out of a rough seat and shimmed the spring to get things working cheaply rather than replacing the seat. I'm sure you've seen that one a few times as I have too. Thanks for sharing. Love these old 4.0's.
Glad he approved the repair. It's been a while since I did a rebuild on one of these 4.0L's ... Happy to watch it repaired for old times sake. YAY!
I just don’t get it. For someone who supposedly considers you worth the effort to employ, and wants their vehicle fixed, they give it to you with an empty fuel tank. To me that’s the ultimate sign of disrespect. I’d tell them to turn around and go get some gas before dropping it off, or no work gets done. That’s just embarrassing to do what the owner did there
At my shop they just pay the hourly rate for me to go get gas, plus the cost of the gas.
@@tomjohnson6036 As they should...
I normally put $20 and charge $40.
Yeah, it's a thing, apparently. They get charged for it. DO they REALLY think you'll furnish a free tank of gas?
@@user-jv2ol1yq9w You know, that IS a good point! Though you'd think they'd ask if they should bring the car in on vapors or not.
"but it's cooler to do it with a pressure transducer. Right?" Right! Love it. We get all the cool toys.
You do know he makes and sells those right?
You also do know there’s not a single thing wrong with him making and selling those transducers- right!!!???
@@YOUZTUBE2000Do you see a comment that I don't? No one said there was anything wrong with Ivan selling his product. o.0
I seem to remember 50 years ago in auto shop when a SUN scope the size of a refrigerator was hooked to a car you could deactivate cylinders one at a time and see if the idle rpm changed. If it didn't you knew that was the cylinder not contributing. Do modern scanners do that and is that a test that would have identified cylinder 4 without having to disassemble? Your use of bore scope and leakdown test was very definitive. Nice job as always.
exactly... the computer in many turn off injector for the cylindee that misses but this one didn't even know the misses...AND HAD THAT ABILITY. I remember those huge Sun machines... cool
.
A lot depends on the cars ability to shut off certain para meters, in GM cars and other you can check miss fires per each cylinder.
I used to fire up an engine on a tire just to find out just how good it really is before installimg it in a rig~Thanks Ivan way to go there!!!
Good morning all. Let's get after this diag. We all know Ivan's got this!
I think 20 years ago there was a TSB about getting the exhaust valves to rotate on the 4.0. Obviously too late with this one, but what I took away from the TSB is if you have a 4.0 be sure to get it over 3200 rpms often. That was supposed to help decarbonize the valves and prevent them from sticking and not rotating.
These heads are infamous for cracks.
Have used heads magnaflux zyglo pressure tested .
Next his trans mission will fail after fixing motor.
Common on high milage stuff.
Excellent channel
The earlier model heads had this issue, but resolved it in the 03-04 year design I believe with the TUPY 0331 head.
@@VaporheadATC thanks I will save that info .
Great diagnostic, Ivan! It almost looks like the exhaust valve in #4 has a smaller diameter than the other ones (or has completely lost the valve seat). Didn't think you would tackle this, but now we're on to an interesting Part 2 :-)
No nonsense, no time wasted! You went straight to the heart of that problem...
Glad to hear the customer approved the repair.
Coffee and PHAD fantastic
Good one Ivan. I wish we had the Pico and the borescope 15-20 years ago! Would have saved a lot of time!
I agree about the gas. Except for an in tank fuel pump problem, PLEASE at least have half a tank of fuel!
Those 4.0L 6 cylinder engines were great! To bad they're using less than the best now.
On to part two.
I am floored that people will travel hours to see you and yet can't put a drop of gas in their car for testing????? Don't they watch your videos? You are a trooper and I hope that you charge them double per gallon for the fill up (LOL I know that you wont but you should)
Great videos as always
A proper valve job on this run-out head would involve seat and valve replacement, resurfacing, and possibly a multitude of other expensive machine shop processes. This would sideline the vehicle for weeks or months and cost a small fortune. A good used or rebuilt head will fix the problem, so long as the lifters are working properly.
Sometimes what can cause a burnt exhaust valve is a partially plugged fuel injector. It causes the cylinder to run very lean and gets the valve hot to the point of burning a chunk off of it.
Exactly... customer brought it in for a detailed diagnosis and analysis. Dude you need a new engine will not cut it here. Ivan knows how to run a business. 💯
I love to watch your methodical step by step diagnosis and explanations. Always learn something.
Hi from England my friend and nice work.my XJ engine is still running great..looking forward to part 2.
In-line 4.0 engines have iron heads and it has worn through the induction Hardening of the exhaust seats replacement seats can be put in fairly common
I'm not familiar with these engines but I did wonder if it was old enough that it had seats machined direct into the iron head. Fitting hardened seats won't be cheap, but will hopefully mean many more miles of life.
The 3.8 litre Buick L36 V6 engine which was Holdens ECOTEC version had the same valve seat recession problem at about 236,000 miles or 380,000 kilometres in his 2000 model Holden VX Commodore due to the use of LP gas which is hard on the exhaust valve seats.
His solution to fix the problem was to replace the whole engine which he got from a 2004 model Holden VY Commodore at the local auto dismantlers back in 2017, the engine had done 200,000 kilometres or 120,000 miles in that car
To be honest, I don't know why he didn't just replace the cylinder heads with reconditioned exchange cylinder heads, replace the pushrods which were scuffed & possibly the valve rockers as well, there were used cylinder heads for sale on eBay as well.
He was worried about reliability but he barely drives the car now because he's always driving his Colorado,he also decided to replace the 4L60E transmission with another one from a VY Commodore as well probably to fix the delay on takeoff that car seems to have but when the VY Commodore transmission was fitted (on the second go because he broke the pump rotor inside of the hydraulic pump because the tangs on the torque converter shaft were misaligned) it didn't make a difference so I don't know if that's GM or Holdens fault.
My VY Commodore has a tweaked 5.7 litre Chevrolet LS1 V8 engine & T56 Tremec manual transmission fitted, it's approaching 397,000 original kilometres (247,000 miles) on the odometer,I prefer to drive that car very much more than the 3.8 litre Buick L36 V6 powered Holden VX Commodore !
Yep LPG will do that to exhaust valves + seats.
Some brands more then others. But it will happen much faster if the heads are made of cast iron with the seats cut straight into the casting (like Ford Pinto OHC inline4). In such a case you can have special valve seats machined in.
If i remember correctly the material is sintered steel made by Schneider.
I could be wrong tho. It has been at least 15y ago since i had it done.
The accelerated wear is caused by micro welding that happens between valve and seat as they slam together and get ripped apart again. Specially at high revs.
Nice Ivan…I’m glad he approved the valve job for ‘us’! 😂🇺🇸
Nice 👍🏼 one ! Thanks for sharing your time and expertise with us Ivan ! Can I ask you about identifying / determining the intake & exhaust valves please ? Did you use look it up in a schematic or were you able to find out by visual analysis ?
wish I had these tools when I worked on cars. Nice work Ivan
Brother calls me yesterday with an 07 Silverado that has over 75 pounds of fuel pressure. I said need a regulator/pump. He said brand new pump. I asked the brand. He says Delphi. Sorry dude, if you got no FSCM, you got a bad regulator. Apparently it had the same issue with the old pump too. Both banks running rich. I haven't gotten over there yet to check it out.
Sounds fun!
Hi Ivan, always good to see your videos!! Ive noticed you've shifted over to multi-part series over the last few months...did that just work out thay way from the nature of the jobs or was that a conscious choice? Thanks as always! Would love to see you and Eric collaborate again sometime!
A freind of mine had a chevy truck he bought new . I heard it running and it sounded like a dead miss he said it sounded like that since he bought it. So we took the heads off and took them to a machine shop .The man said the one cylinder never had a valve seat installed from the factory.This was in the early 80s.Ran much better after we put back together.
And again a spot on diagnostic. You are good man!
These engines in that year range had all sorts of head issues, they would crack under where the oil cap is and leak coolant into the oil, the valves had carbon issues from low rpm, then they would burn and wear the seats, they had TSB’s for fuel vaporization after a hog soak, the list of issues just go on, great video as always Ivan👍
What years were good for the 4.0 in these Jeep models?
@@Garth2011they had head issues from 99 to about 2003 then they changed the head casting to fix the cracking issue. They still had carbon issues with the valves though, sometimes you could repair just with combustion chamber cleaner others got full valve jobs with new springs.
Can you let us know if the head casting no. Is 0331? If it is - is there a TUPY casted under oil filler neck?
If not - make sure you get a TUPY unit. Non tupy are cracking, causing issues on cylinder 3 and 4
A Jeep that runs like shit? A real unicorn you have there.
Cool case study ivan
Cool Ivan I kinda wanted to see the head off and your continued diagnosis on the bad exhaust valve
Merry Christmas lol. , going to be 18 degrees today vancouver.
bc ,.great channel 🍺🍺
Good job bro. I think you could remove the fuel pump relay and use the injector pulse as a reference for the compression test
Wow, that exhaust valve is sunken deep into that head. I had a YJ once upon a time that had a soft valve seat that caused the same problem. The Indiana salt eventually rotted that Jeep away.
Nice video of another case study. It will be interesting to see what lurks in the dark to surprise you.
It looks like it might have ingested the valve seat on that exhaust valve.
Nice diag Ivan!
Ivan, thank you for sharing the amazing work you do. Will you consider dumbing it down for us mere mortals and reduce the abbreviations and jargon? ASD ?? Etc. Thank you!
Automatic Shutdown Relay. It shuts off fuel and ignition when off, or removed. It's supposed to help prevent engine fires and hydrolocking in accident/rollover conditions.
Nice!!! Ivan is doing a cylinder head on a Jeep 4.0! Place your bets now. Will this be a 3 or 4 episode repair? Thanks Ivan for bringing us along!
Retired now but it was common to see exhaust valves receded that far or further on cast iron heads running on LPG in the days of leaded fuel. LPG has no lead, hence valve seat recession caused by "welding" of the valve seat to the head with no lead to intervene. Over time the seat material goes out the exhaust pipe and the valve becomes recessed. The ticking that goes with it is the valve clearance in the "lash" of hydraulic followers running out of clearance. Usual cure was to put inkonel or other hardened valve seats in the head and stainless or inkonel valves in. Since introduction of unleaded fuel and aluminium head the seats are induction hardened or in aluminium heads, hardened inserts.
I meant welding of valve face to the head.
Part 1 on the title of this video was the dead giveaway of a part 2, where the customer definitely wants you to fix it!
Working in falling snow, that is dedication!
Can;t you use the CKP sensor for syncing the relative compression test?
that 4.0 straight 6 is still the best one jeep ever built compared to all the 4 cyl and v6 engines ....i'd pick the straight over any of the other garbage engines
you're the man Ivan!
Fascinating stuff, thanks Ivan.
I'm no expert, but it strikes me that in cases like this of very poor engine performnace, it makes more economic sense to go straight for a compression test to avoid the ignition system & fuel system parts cannon?
Rain or shine or snow, Ivan gets it done. I couldn’t help it. I’m a mailman.
Thank you Ivan
Well done 👍
Did someone redo that head already and put an undersized valve in it? Not sure how a valve that otherwise looks ok could sink below the head surface. I'd love to see the valve train on that particular valve. Almost like a rocker slipped off but that doesn't fully explain the valve bypassing the seat. Even with a working valve in cylinder 4 that head still wouldn't run too great given those other cylinder pressures. Hopefully a valve job solves the compression issues and it isn't leaking/stuck rings. Thanks for the video Ivan, always love to see a new PHAD's post.
Thanks Ivan!
Synch can still be used by pulling a spark plug and use in-cylinder pressure transducer alongside RC. Then with firing order identify the weak ones.
I do car my own repairs (as a DIY), and occasionally for family only. My standing rule is, if the the fuel tank is empty (or battery is spanked), I charge $25 labor, plus gas. (PS: I otherwise, don’t charge labor for family, and won’t work on anyone else’s cars).
Ivan , you are dealing with a Virginian , smart and fast decision maker, let's put it this way, after spending tons on $ , replacing so many parts and a new engine , I wouldn't take it back to my previous mechanic either !.
Wow, that's a dead-on diagnosis, Ivan! I have never seen a phenomenon like this before. If it's the valve seat, why is this one so bad or is it missing? Could it be that this is a reman head and either the valve seat was not put back in or the wrong size valve was put in? I guess we'll find out in part two.
BTW, I just watched a video on replacing valve seats and it looks like it's a job for an experienced and equipped machine shop. I would hope that you can just get a new head or just replace the valve if it is the wrong size. 😊
Cool diag!
No gass! That is the one thing that would set me off. I've had vehicles run out of gas while driving from the parking lot to the shop door. So sad.
0331 head prone to cracking if overheated, I remember that much. The old head was 0630 wasn't it, or am I mistaken? It's been awhile since the Jeep ownership days, 12 and a half years to be precise.
Many cars will disable the misfire monitor with fuel level below 15%. It might be why the misfire monitor did not work.
Great point!
My 97 sounded like that exhaust once, but it was because I'd pulled one of the plug wires off to get it out of my way when changing the oil filter adapter o-rings and forgot to put it back on... 🤣
I would have been so disappointed (and shocked) if the owner didn't authorized you to do the repair.
i was thinking the head is cast iron, there are no replaceable seats on those, the seats are induction hardened, sure you can machine them for replaceable seats, I ve seen machined/ replaceable seats come loose over time. better off getting a whole new TUPY head
Excellent 👍🏻
I wonder how many miles were on that "replacement" engine before it was installed? The combustion chamber honestly doesn't look that bad aside from that pooched valve. I have a 98 (same Jeep) with 190k on it and I just pulled the plugs to take a peek at It's heath and they are golden! I added an Accel High Energy (Hot spark) ignition coil about 30k miles ago and the difference in combustion is considerable.
Strange... Looks like the head of the valve eroded away making it appear that the valve was recessed. Hence it's weird button shape. The seat looked semi ok. Maybe excessive heat from something caused the erosion?
Lotta miles for the inline, I always liked the straight 6, this looks like a rebuild that got done pretty fast, fresh head might be worth it and shouldn't be too expensive
More information about this engine would be preferred regarding age/miles however, if it was used when installed, I would rebuild the entire engine. If it was rebuilt and only had 90,000 miles on it then, the valve job seems to be a fair limit.
I do not like the way how you did the compresión check by removing all Spark plugs 9:07 .
With all plugs out you can miss some important information as per example how about if the companion cylinder had any issues on exhaust as worn lobe exhaust flow issues normally will be reflected on the brother cylinder but with all plugs out can conpress any thing on exhaust if will be the case
Wow, what happened to that seat? Those were actually pretty good engines, but if it was a “used” swap who knows how many miles it actually has. I’ve seen a couple of these with broken piston skirts, which creates a pretty distinctive noise. Very short skirts for whatever reason. Considering the compression on the other cylinders, I would be a bit reluctant to even put a used head on it, but it is of course the owners decision. 👍👍🇺🇸
🍿for part 2
Those heads always had issues. I actually remeber changing a few that leaked coolant right through the casting. You could pull the valve cover and watch the antifreeze weep out of the head...flow right down the oil return hole to mix with oil. You would think it would be a bad hg, but in fact bad head/casting. You should check iatn out. Back in the day it was the top place to go to connect to techs with weird issues. Like for example..most older fwd gm cruise would not work if ABS light on.
Iatn is not what it was 15 years ago. Not much goes on there now, it's mostly some grumpy old men, but back in the day it was a great place.
When you put the mic by the exhaust in the beginning of this video it literally sounded like an old steam engine 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Thought the exact same thing!
The variation of compression is too wide too, notwithstanding #4 being practically dead. New/refurb head time.
😅😅😂The sound effects at 4:00 into the video. Otherwise great video as usual.
Can you get actual starter current from the relay? Or is it just measuring the voltage while cranking?
That cranking sound and those codes, yikes. Cylinder 1 low compression...That's my guess at 4:21 in. :)
Seen a brand new Jeep that ran like garbage when I worked for a Chrysler dealership.
Wonder why?
The exhaust was plugged up because someone didn't make the hole on main pipe for the 1 cylinder that it goes to.
thank you customer for giving us closure i hate thing left up in the air
looking foreward to part 2 , valve pounded into seat , valve train noise also mmmmm intresting .
Hypothesis: tappet stuck, making the exhaust valve slightly leaky. This caused hot exhaust gasses erode away the valve, but not the seat. End result is a recessed valve that is (still) not sealing properly even if the tappet unstuck itself.
@@Google_Is_Evil That could very well explain it, & the ticking sound.
Lack of valve clearance would typically end up with a burnt valve rather than an evenly recessed valve seat. This looks like a material problem, like you get from running a head with cast iron seats on unleaded fuel.
I know these old Jeeps were infamous for dropping valve seats. Usually brought on by overheating issues. The Jeep Liberty with the 3.7 V6 had a bad rap for that. But when a valve seat drops out, mass destruction follows. I'm not seeing that here. So, did this valve seat pound it way deeper into the head? Or did it just burn it away? Ivan, I hope you take us along on a tear down. I'd really like to see what happened here.
Thanks!
wonderin' why you don't use a differential leakdown tester set up?
378 on the clock... The machine is a trooper.
I have just shy of 340k on a 97 XJ
What does the frame look like with 300k mile’s on it. Ready for the crusher? Not sure I’d put more money in it.
I learned years ago back in the mid 90's my neighbor had a 77 dodge motorhome with a 440 4bbl engine and it was running on 4 cylinders and when I pulled the heads the exhaust valve seats in 4 cylinders were gone but I couldn't figure out the fuel smell and I took the heads to the local machine shop and Larry called me and asked what fuel was ran through it so I called the owner and he said methanol fuel he got in the State of Ohio and by the time he got home in Pa 4 cylinders had no compression so I called Larry and told him and he said yep, you can't run methanol in any Chrysler Product, I got the heads back with a valve job done and the heads planed .015 thousands and that 440 would scream in that motorhome!!!! Let it be a lesson to all you Chrysler guys to never run methanol gas in your engines!!!!!!
Side note… exhaust valve leaking to other cylinders with 15psi imagine a combustion event 💥
Hi again Ivan. To be polite your diagnostic was correct, at 100% sensitivity there was no misfires on any cylinders which was correct which leads you bad compression if its firing correctly or am I wrong?
Regards Richard 🇬🇧
These engines are just too old.. The misfire counter doesn't work very well. Plus I think it only goes by a meter reading inside the coils.. As long as the spark plug is still sparking-- it won't read a misfire. Because I don't think these even have a knock sensor-- so it's not reading misfires in the same way as a more modern vehicle. ( I could be wrong though.. :)
@@calholliit uses the crank sensor to detect misfire. It's hit or miss... as in detects misfire when there isn't and doesn't when it should lol.
@@v12alpine Yeah.. When there's no knock sensor, your misfires are not reliable
4:30 Hi Ivan, make extension spark wire for this test or buy them.
Its' not that simple on these.. All the coils are built into one big coil pack.. so it's a bit of a hassle
Seen a valve wear the seat more than once. Olds diesel years ago, #1 intake, so bad had to junk the head, engine had 50k miles. Soft seat can do that.
It looks like the owner loves driving their Jeep, so I'm not surprised he or she wants you to continue the fix. Especially after driving it for four hours
Reman head is relatively inexpensive. You just need the right one, I think there are 3 different ones. Check the casting numbers.
it was 👍🏻
on Ivan! Today the jacket is not Colombia, what kind of jacket is Ivan wearing today!?)))