Metropolis To Ruins: Can Myth Drannor Be Rebuilt?
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- Опубликовано: 21 авг 2024
- The Sage, himself, takes us on a journey of secrets through the ancient city of Cormanthor (Myth Drannor), teaching us all about its history, its denizens, and what made this magically-imbued metropolis so significant to the Forgotten Realms. 🧙
Want to learn all about the 2/3 of Spellfire that never made it to the novel? Or maybe you'd like to hear all about the dwarven tunnels running underneath Myth Drannor and what kind of adventure opportunities they present? All that and more in the extended and unabridged version of this interview on Patreon. ➡️ / edgreenwood
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#DnD #ForgottenRealms #fantasy #ttrpg
Two things:
1.) Ivan - you are a highly valued sage, preserving the lore of one of the masters. Thank you for everything you do.
2.) Ed - thank you for doing this channel and all of the content. Your insights into the world you built are truly the stuff of legend.
Keep on doing this!
Thank you so much! I'm just grateful for the opportunity to continue sharing the realms with so many people.
Thank you so much :'-)
I appreciate the question, "Why is this treasure still here?" Fascinating to hear Ed share this amazing lore! Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
"The problem is that things keep happening to it".
Highly relatable.
This channel makes it so the Forgotten Realms breathes new life. It waves away the notion that it's a generic setting and makes feel unique, like it's own thing.
Thanks, that's what I'm trying for. I have always treated the Realms as if it's real, and alive. To me, its creator, it's never been a generic setting. :}
@@edgreenwoodofficialYou rock
Huh, I always pronounced it Myth DranNOR. Good to have it correct from the man himself.
Here's the story how Ed greenwood and I killed my first character together... 🤣
In Myth Drannor...
Minor spoilers. In the box set there was a adventure... My first player kill, as a DM, was a wizard who insisted on using one of 'gate' to reflect their lightning bolt back onto a nasty wandering around the ruins.
I said "are you sure you want to do that?" and generally tried to give them opportunity to back out, and the players thought I was arguing they couldn't bounce a lightning bolt. They thought the resulting effect, the player being declared dead (and the fact I didn't need to roll a die) was me being bitter for being 'wrong' and 'called out' for it about the lightning bolt bounce...
Hahah as I'm writing this Ed starts spoiling talking about the gates... Well I'll still be vague... [but Ed... can confirm you got at least one!]
The player, a super rules lawyer type, was super upset. I gave them the module over the top of the gm screen and pointed to the section and waited. They read it. Serious pause open mouthed, trying to think of what to say. Reads it again. Same open mouthed pause.... Really thinking about what to say. The red spitting anger flushes and is replaced with red cheeked embarrassment. Takes a deep breath, eyes downcast, but with clear vocal direction, announces to the party. "I'm dead".
It was great. I wasn't disagreeing with them I was naively just trying to avoid a fairly senseless player kill early on our first session.
When the DM says "are you certain that what's you want to do" then... Maybe... Just maybe... Be certain. Moral of the story is don't bounce lightning bolts off ancient relics...
After that though, our first game in forgotten realms, I was a young DM that I outright killed a player early on, well they killed themselves... But I was just the messenger delivering the sentencing. but the players played to live to fight another day, and took care to survive because we had a player death session 1. Probably the best thing that could have happened to that group... come to think of it... It set the high stakes tone.
Good times!
This series is awesome! Please do a deep dive on Netheril/Netherese. Would like more of their lore in current adventures
I'll absolutely add it to the list!
oh I forgot about the betrayed good-natured netherese high arcanist warlock parron who's soul is trapped in the dagger that killed him.
Just listening to Ed speak inspires me to return to things unwritten or explored in decades but where to find adventurers foolish enough to let me take them there. 😂
that's what sucks about knowing the game and lore too much sometime. I mean, it's really fun to analyse, discover, gather knowleedge of the world you play in, but when you know too much, and your players as well, it kind of gives away all kind of element of surprise sometime, like YOU KNOW what's coming and even tho you try hard not to "meta game" there,s always someone who will or will use his knowledge in any kind of way...if not simply not having this element of surprise anymore.
I Love those lore video... so inspiring. I normally only use the lore as inspiration and always tells my players that ANYTHING you know could prove to be wrong... consider your meta-knowledge as ''rumors'' at best. But I don't play D&D anymore, so I very rarely use the Forgotten Realms anymore, used it ALL the time when I played AD&D 2... but I hate the 5e version and how now characters are Marvel Super heroes from level 1. And even the concept of having level now get on my nerves, because I believe that the rules that governs characters should be the same that govern the rest of the universe... but how can you have very skilled merchants... when their haggling skills depend on their level hence if haggling goes up so does their HP and everything else... I prefer now all systems where XP is a currency you spend on stuff.... so the merchants just spend their xp on merchant stuff... et voila.
@@JeffreyBezeau lol, yeah, I feel that. Sometimes, it works in your favor though. Like, if a newbie is told they're coming upon the ancient ruins of Myth Drannor, they're like, "Ooooh, coool", whereas if I as a player am told the same thing, I'm going to fall out of my chair and scoot along the floor in uncontrollable fanboy excitement.
But yeah, I'll be taking a 10 on all my lore checks...
I'm now desperate to read the original version of Spellfire! 😮
The Legendary Ed of the Greenwood !! How fortunate we are that he in now crafting tales on RUclips. And what do mine eyes spy ? A masterwork paper roll ! My next Sage will have that on his table next to piles of books.
Loved the box set of this from years ago. The sheer level of treasure running and insane monsters was just amazing. The gauntlet my players had to survive was absolutely brutal. Glorious!
I sent my players back in time to right before the city fell to the hordes. It was a good time as they went through helping people escape, to years later when they returned and fought Phaerimm and other beasts trying to reclaim the city.
Ooh! We need a massive discussion on the Dalelands! Preferably one episode to introduce the Dales, and one episode for each Dale! Plus with how close to Myth Drannor the Sales are, we absolutely need information on the area for the 15th century!
I love the idea of recovering elven artifacts to help preserve and revive their culture, sealing of portals to the abyss and other nasty planes, and going in to recover pieces of Thultanthar that crashed into the city below. I'd enamored with the idea of playing a Shade survivor who was maybe in some kind of stasis pod after their parents put them there during the fighting when they saw the city going down, awakening some time later to a strange new world decades after the fall
Now that's a fascinating background for a PC or NPC - a child of inhabitants of the flying Enclaves (old enough to remember enough that it matters but still very young, like 12-16 maybe?) being discovered preserved in the present. The big trick would be figuring out how this happened, since the cities only fell out of the sky because all magic suddenly stopped working. Figuring that out could be tricky, like maybe he was turned to stone for some reason right before it happened. It would have to be done in such a way that 1. magic suddenly failing wouldn't matter and 2. he would be preserved for all the intervening centuries.
I love reading about Myth Drannor, it is such a fascinating place! I've read anything I can get my hands on with lore or stories about it! Thank you Ed and Ivan!
The pleasure is all mine!
_Force-finger?_ To think I spent all that time getting my wizard to become an archmage so I could "shape" my _disintegrate_ spells when I could have used _force-finger!!!_
My players invented a spell called detect floor it was essentially a trip spell. Back in 2nd ed.
@@maguszeal5818 LOL good one.
I never got around to creating "power word, shart", but it would have been a doozy.
I suppose in 3E terms one with just create the spell "shart", and then Quicken it to achieve the same effect.
I've always figured new treasure gets introduced to old dungeons through the failure of previous adventuring parties.
Commenting before watching.
I was doing some research on fandom archives for some background on Netherese City to be the origin of a powerful magic item.
A Sarrukh is my ultimate BBEG after Tomb of Annihilation and I had set a dream/vision for one of my players set above the valley of Myth Drannor when the Netherese City reappeared leading to its destruction and from the ruin the recovery of the Artefact combined with imagery of The Sarrukh created Nether Scrolls that led to Netheril's magical rise (and fall)
I was feeling pretty pleased with myself for having stitched this all together.
Of now to go and see what I missed and maybe (probably) learn more about this ancient place.
As a DM this makes me happy.
What are some other fabled civilizations that you think capture the magic of the Realms like Myth Drannor does? So much potential!
The netherese empire without a doubt. Id give all my gold in my bag of holding to hear you talk about them!
@@trogdor856 Great suggestion! I think we have something planned somewhat soon. ;}
@@edgreenwoodofficial Personally my favorite thing about them was their ability to cast above 9th lvl spells, man I wish more than anything the current game would allow for it in some fashion, Its just too cool a concept to leave out.
The ancient giant kingdom of Ostoria!
Along with Netheril I'm really interested in the country of Halruaa and am even planning to dm whole mini-campaign prequel about it with my party! I particularly like the whole politics situation in it, the country bearing the knowledge their ancestors fell for flying too close to the sun with magic (introducing Jordain Viziers and Magehounds to keep even the Council of Elders in check). I really do hope there'll be more new information about it because I've really had to rely on mostly 3.5e books and novels 😅
I woukd love to hear Ed just talk about the history of DnD and what it was like developing the property and working with THC back in the day.
I went into this place in my uncle's 2nd edition campaign. He said he got to talk with you at length about your world before wizards got their gangly fingers in it.
Thank you Ed for giving us a glimpse of what is happening in Myth Drannor in the current canonical timeline after the events of The Herald. I am running the 5th edition adventure Dungeon of the Mad Mage and there is a hook within that will inevitably lead my players to the ruined city. This helps me flesh out the place, and as with all your other work I would like to try my best to give such an important location the attention to detail that it is due :)
Drannor was the only campaign world I ever played, every game after was custom, not premade. I love Myth Frannie and shall forever support the Fae who died there. ❤
So some twenty years ago a good friend of mine ran one of my favorite campaigns ever, and the subject of this video is extremely relevant.
In our first session we somehow managed to get teleported to the location of the nearest magical artifact. Our DM ruled that would put us deep inside a long-forgotten tomb in Myth Drannor.
And that is how we found ourselves in the unenviable position of a reverse dungeon crawl...
Sounds like a sticky wicket, indeed!
@@edgreenwoodofficial I don't want to gush, but I will say that the DM masterfully guided my character through a redemption arc that absolutely blindsided me. Guided to Mystra's grace by Elminster himself.
Sir Greenwood, thank you so much for all of your work!
I still have the "Pool of Radiance, Ruins of Myth Drannor" computer game, it was really bad, but had so much potential.
Ohhhh that part about spellfire the book explains a lot about the pacing of that book. BTW Ed that was my first entre into FR and dnd. I love you for that. Be well.
Thank you, and thank you for being such a loyal fan!
The Old Sage is always a joy to listen to.
My first GENCON, I saw Mr Greenwood speaking on "what was happening in The Realms" and I listened with bemusement like "ok... How do I use this?".
My play group was very much "roll players" so I'd never hear of any "lore".
But now, eating it up!
I played 5 year game in 2e, from level 1 to 20. In the end we decided to take back Myth Drannor. We spent a month and a half exterminating the forces from the ruins, a rolling fight door-to-door over the entire official map while discovering the properties of the mythal. We made deals with or killed off demons, devils, Phaerimm, and more. Once it was clear, we used wish spells to rebuild the structures, established permanent gates to Waterdeep and another city we founded in the underdark, wrote our own laws, and invited people from all over to claim property for free. So we kind of have our own time-line. Interesting to see it officially being rebuilt.
Did a 4 and a half year campaign that was epic. Long campaigns are underrated.
Ed Greenwood IS Elminster.
Yes I believe that was confirmed in cannon somewhere...
We always anunciated Myth Drannor as a 3 sylable single word "Myth-Dra-nor" often miss-anunciated with a T as "Myth-Tra-nor" which stuck, and we liked as it was easier to say, and we figured it was what people do with foreign words.
I always annunciated the last syllable to be myth dreNOR
HUGE fan of the original Forgotten realms campaign. I have many of the first edition novels including Spellfire. Ed, may your guiding light into the realms shine for ages to come.
god these are such gold
Thank you so much!
Re: The Star Trek Aliens: since a lot of the Original Series episodes (like a lot of Twilight Zone episodes) where intended to view some current or recent events or attitudes through a science fiction lens, they also suffered from "race A = group B". So, basically, Klingons were Russian communist stereotypes, Romulans were Chinese communist stereotypes (Vulcans were 'good Asian' stereotypes, as a flip side -- wise, good at math, inscrutable, etc). It took a longer look at them (through the novels and the intervening years) to develop them into more complex cultures: Klingons as proud warriors trying to deal with the clashes between almost knightly ideals and the dirty hands needed to run an interstellar empire, Romulans as a society struggling to sublimate destructive emotional extremes through constant surveillance and strict laws (instead of logical rigor and suppression), Vulcans as beings trying to navigate a path between losing their full nature and losing *to* their full nature (as they did when their passions led to near-extinction in nuclear war).
While I think Gene Roddenberry had a great idea using science fiction to seed better ideas about how to act and feel towards other human beings into his fiction, it does take something away from depth of character when the story elements are pulling double duty as story and allegory.
I think you are missing some key considerations. The officers were the LL oud statement about culture and racism. The aliens were useful foils that were often inspired by real world cultures. This has been a common thing in most science fiction, but seldom done as well as by Gene Rodenberry
My favorite sub-setting within Forgotten Realms setting.
One of the most interesting plotlines in the 3.5e era was that the elves successfully did a Return. For as much as I love Forgotten Realms lore it doesn't make sense for the elves to just retreat like that. For those who are interested in seeing elves do something interesting instead of hiding in the corner despite, read the Last Mythal trilogy by Richard Baker. The elves overcome trials and tribulation to retake Myth Drannor and start the rebuild process. But of course WotC wouldn't let a good thing stand and in the transition to 5e destroyed Myth Drannor once again. None of us should be surprised by the hack job they are doing to our beloved Realms nowadays.
I would very much like to see a game where you can take on the task of restoring Myth Drannor...or destroying entirely. High level stuff, using the Wrath of the Righteous engine.
It was a second or third game session in my life, 1994 or 1995, AD&D and the group of ours 1 level bards go to Myth Drannor. The legend of elven riches was so exciting.
I played spellfire the card game back in the day... >.>... I'm suprised it got a name drop by Ed Greenwood in this day and age O.O
I've haven't adventured in the Realms very much in my ill-spent youth, so these interviews are rather enlightening. For instance,, I never understood before what a mythal is.. I feel much more Myth-i formed.
I am currently running my group through this adventure site. Last session they barely made it to the temple of lathander on the outskirts ..with a horde of devils chasing them out of the city ruins :) . Was great fun!
This channel is amazing. So lucky to have the sage himself explaining the lore of the realms to us in such depth.
Finally someone said it !!! It had to be Ed Himself. I find these same questions in my campaigns . I'm a Forgotten Realms Junkie so of course most of my Campaigns are there . Everyone wants to go to Myth Drannor . Any more I tell them to Read the Elminster series first then well think about the epic quest to die .
Ed, are you planning on releasing anymore campaign guide books surrounding specific areas (like your recent Thay book)? I’d love a book or two bursting with lore on Myth Drannor or greater Cormanthyr 🤩
4:31 It's funny, when Ed was describing the arrogance of Myth Drannor elves, the point of reference I immediately went to was the depiction of reactionary Vulcans in Star Trek, particularly in some of the later iterations (pre-Surakian restoration Enterprise Vulcans, the academic panel in the 2009 film, etc.)
If you get ahold of the Return to Myth Drannor Pool of Radiance game there was a soundtrack where a bard sings “Myth DRAH-Nor” just noting
Thanks!
Hi Ed! I was wondering if there is a printed or PDF version of updated information for Myth Drannor as background lore so we 'Realmsmakers' have something to refer to, to create updated adventures in the 'updated' setting?
Thank you for everything you do!
Have always wanted to play here.
Thank you for another excellent video
This is epic! Thank you Ed & Co. !
Yesterday I've discovered this and just several hours later another treat. Thank you.
One of my first computer games ever before i even knew of dnd was Pool of Radience Ruins of Myth Drannor. The game apparently reviewed horribly but man the mystical setting and storytelling captivated me. Such a great area of lore.
Great video, I love Myth Drannor. Man are those auto-subtitles not great though. Had to urn them off. Haha.
My apologies. I'll get the team working on improving them!
@@edgreenwoodofficial
Aww. Thank you!
@@edgreenwoodofficial They got a lot of words wrong - particularly for names. Srinshee came up as something odd, for instance.
Your story about humble Eliminster being hazed by the Upperclassmen/Elves then showing them up really rhymes with a lot of experiences in my life.
I loved the box set.
It's for my nose.😛
But of course it is Master Lorekeeper
I wanted to ask but wasn't sure I wanted the answer!
Ed's voice is like melted chocolate...!
I really enjoyed those old 2e books. I miss the novels. Novelization immerses much better than lore books. I wish WOTC would reprint them.
Ed Greenwood is the Homer of fantasy excellent video and have a good evening 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊.
Reminds me Malkizid is one of my favorite villains. Just give them everything they want till they become bloated and complacent or just enough power that they would believe themselves soo powerful that they attempt ridiculous things that get them killed.
I was OBSESSED with exploring and restoring Myth Drannor in the mid 90's.
I want to know why there was a ring of warmth in the Myth Drannor adventure that was included in the original Forgotten Realms box set? I think it was in a little crack in the walls where a pool of water had formed from the cracks in the walls.
I love these videos. The lore drop I want.
I would like to know what, if any, relationship you had with Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson. Perhaps you could have a vid about it if the answer is long enough.
Well now I have to bring the party to Myth Drannor at some point.
Silverymoon feels like it has very similar vibes to those of Myth Drannor. Without the series of collapses, makes me glad that this level of magical wonder exists in a stable way somewhere.
And maybe the Mythal could be edited some. You know maybe prevent travel to such nasty places as other planes and maybe NOT having giant holes in your defenses INSIDE the city walls. Like a portal hub, outside the city limits and contained in a way that any invading force would end up in a giant killbox .
This also has flaws... centralized systems are easily controlled and that applies to anyone, including those with less than noble intentions. So preventative measures would have to be taken against that (Like having a number of smaller hubs for example)...
A solution could be made to work and keep the city stable, unless the story writers just want to keep destroying and rebuilding the place, who would want to live in a place that keeps blowing up?
But I have no sway over such decisions lol
Great job Ed
Thank you! I love doing these!
#QUESTION
So, if elves think humans are impulsive, what do they think of gnomes?
They live even longer than elves, yet they can be even more impulsive than humans are.
So more recently you see a lot of a similar brand of assholery from the elves in the later books of the spellmonger series.
This channel is amazing. I’d like to know what East of Thay in original Ed’s Realms and something more about Sossal!
That was great, thank you!
I'm loving all the videos and content so far in the videos, I hope there is a lot more in the future!
I love that Ed paints his Elves as kind of jerks
Great video thank you
So there's a lot of signature customized loot lost to many different players in NPCs inside the holes of Myth Dannor's dungeons.... nice. That gives opportunities like mystery key.
Don't worry about mispronouncing Myth Drannor, I've been pronouncing it Drannór (like "door", I suppose it just sounded more Elvish to me) for the last 30 years and only found out today that it's pronounced differently.
Thank you Ed
So great to hear these stories.
While we're on the topic of elves & elf accessories, I was wondering what the official take from the old wizard himself is on elven height in the forgotten realms? Because I've seen it go all over the place with different editions & it got me a wee bit confused.
Also, I think it would be fun to do a campaign where you're trying to retake the city, but also have to do a lot of spy work as the group of elves you work for/are a part of want to claim & secure it before every else can figure out whats going on.
Sounds intriguing!
I ran a campaign for many years very similar to the campaign idea you mentioned, probably my favorite campaign! ;)
Started in 2nd edition, evolving through 3/3.5, and I still tinker with the old campaign and characters doing 'updates' to current editions, even though the campaign and characters are long retired. 1st level through to epic level(s).
2 main (players and) characters.
Sun Elf (Faerie Elf - HB); Wizard; older brother, noble tasked (through prophecy) to reclaim/rebuild Myth Drannor/The Elven Court/Cormanthor.
Sun Elf (Faerie Elf - HB); Fighter/Cleric of Shevarash (Dhaeraowathila); younger brother, sworn to protect older brother (and fight Drow... ).
+ 'Henchmen'/irregular PC's.
Sun Elf (Celadrin); Priestess of Hanali; pacifist/healer; Wizards wife.
(Aeven)Drow; Sword Dancer of Elistraee; Dhaeraowathila's (eventual) consort.
Pixie, Rouge; Arcane Trickster; Dhaeraowathila's best friend (comic relief character).
Wood Elf; Ranger, Arcane Archer.
Wild Elf (Lythari); Druid.
+ 'Other'.
Half (Moon) Elf; Bard - Swashbuckler; Former (3rd) main PC, later an important NPC (betrayal villain).
Sun Elf (Baelnorn); Priest of Labalas Enroth; Party Patron, important NPC.
Was very happy to hear my take on adventuring in Myth Drannor was not to far off from Ed's commentary on the location! :)
Even at 'epic' levels, with a lot of resettlement work been done (perhaps slightly more resettled/restored than Ed mentions is current in Myth Drannor now, at my campaigns height), there was always plenty of scope for grand adventure!
Every time 'public works' (or originally hit and Run, Run, Run! Adventure party raids) to clear rubble, excavate an old site, et cetera endless opportunity for adventure or intrigue was more abundant than the unplundered wealth and wonder of the Elven Court itself...
thank you!
Huh thats strange... I've been pronouncing it
drah*noor*
since i can even remember
As I've said, someone in the Realms likely pronounces it the same way. Cheers!
Ack thats the ol Matt dra-icknoor.. slightly dwarvish accent...jk.
At some point could we get a video on Damara/Vaasa? There's obviously the module and the R.A Salvatore works in the region but none of those develop much culture in the region.
I was curious if you would expand on the subject of elven spell mantles from Dragon Magazine Annual #2, that began on page 89 I believe. You mention lost spell books that could contain information on creating such an item. Would you perhaps share the spell, in whatever format you choose, to make an elven spell mantle? If anything, thank you for the many dreams and inspiration you have given over the years. The Realms have, and always will be a home for my heart.
Thank you for the video! :)
You're very welcome! And if there's any lore you want me to cover, please ask!
@@edgreenwoodofficial Thank you again, Mr. Greenwood! Love your videos! Moonrise Towers? Gravenhollow? Rashemen? Of course, you commented that you will speak more of Graz'zt, so you've made me very happy! 😀
This is awesome!!
I p me to hear the rest of Ed greens story about the broken MC 2 and the novel
Great video... Still have my 2nd edition of myth drannor book rules book.
One area of Faerûn that has me always to Wonder is thommar.. What is thommar? Is it a country? There never been any information about it..
On the map Thommar is located east of durpar, north Ulgarth of and south of raurin desert and semphar.
That's cool
I'd listen to a podcast called Ed's Digression.
Myth Drannor reminds me a lot of Tanelorn from the Moorcock Multiverse
Interesting!
Which came first the chicken or the magister?
My last 3rd edition campaign was an adaptation of "The last Mythal", I was very sad that they destroyed it for 5th eddition
:'-(
I remember reading that a Mythal was able to restore charges to magic items. Could a Mythal be built to empower quasi-magic items, similar to the mythalars in Netheril? Additionally, could a city be made to fly with a Mythal?
I just find your channel! Have you consider talk about Undermountain?
Great idea! We'll add it to the list.
We used to say that they are called The "Forgotten" Realms because Myth Drannor (pronounced like you did) "drained all the myths" away...😂
o7
The Minsters didn't need the spells ;)
They had me.
アΩ
I wanna see the Myth Drannor resettled. I hope my players take an interest in it. I plan for our game to run into 1500 DR so it would be a momentous occasion
That roll of toilet paper .......
The scroll of infinite usefulness? I thought it was a nice touch.
A man sat in front of his PC with a roll of toilet paper…
I went to the comments to see if anyone else noticed.
See this is what needs to be touched on, creatures such as Elves and Dwarves are alien to us Humans. It makes me cringe when writers/designers of fantasy media make Elves into nothing more than Humans with pointy ears.
So in curse of the Azure bonds A brick wall imprisons Moander. The Great old one Ygolonac is also imprisoned behind a brick wall both have a similar symbol of a hand with a fanged mouth that is however where the similarities end. Just curious if this is accidental