I Built Tank Tracks Using Your Suggestions And They Are AMAZING!
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- Опубликовано: 7 окт 2024
- In this episode we are back in Gearblocks with new and improved tank treads! After the last video I went through all of your suggestions in the comments and figured out how to build better tank tracks!
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These tracks are slightly better than my last ones...
ad rollers to the top it will make them much better
you do need more weight cause the suspension it too stiff for its current weight
Now build a M4 Sherman.
Forget us, just get good already smh
You really have to make that Tucker Sno-Cat or something similar four tracked vehicle. Tanks are so last season. You really have to go full in with the tracks.
you need to pur roollers on the top to stop the tank tread from hitting the middle section and it will also tension the track slightly, i beleive that this may also be causeing the lag as it has to compute lots of collisions
This, most tanks have top guide wheels as well, not often on suspention, removes a lot of friction wear from rails.
@@douglashanks4189 i meant to say that they need to be solid that is why i made a other comment above this one
^This. Personally, I'd just put free rollers on the top where your guide plate is.
I'm really excited to see what madness you finally create.😂
Sidenote- tanks make collision noise constantly, just a byproduct of having continuously colliding metal.
on real tanks there are 4 types of wheels.
1. sprocket : the wheel that actually drives the track
2. roadwheel : the wheels that support the tanks from the ground
3. idler : like sprocket, but unpowered
4. return roller : a wheel that keeps the track from hitting the roadwheels
you can leave return rollers out and instead use a railing like you have used. The other possibility is to use big enough roadwheels that the track can rest on top of them.
the guiderails were more commonly used in earlier tanks. Basically in a few Great war tank designs.
Theres also old designs like the ones in the sherman.
What did the mk1 British tank use was it return rollers or rails
I too, from Space Engineers and From the Depths, know the joy in spending hours fixing/figuring something out and just flying/driving/sailing it around making happy "It works at last!" noises
I love the more technical side of your videos, I originally subscribed when I saw your old videos about logic creations in scrap mechanic, I hope you do more videos like this where you explain the pretty technical creation
same here but I love all his videos no matter the content it's his personality that makes Kan, Kan :)
I expected a bit of improvement from the last video, but wow... This turned out so much better.
Honestly glad you're not looking at workshop items, because the process of figuring out and inventing is so much more interesting than just copy+pasting existing designs
Love the "wrist-watch" links! Can't wait to see you pair these with the right engine/clutch combo. Make it heavy!
The guide rails would actually be multiple rollers. They act more like bearing and thus experience less wear and tear and are much easier to replace.
As far as the number of gear teeth (spokes) you need, it should be as simple as any number divisible by the number of links that fit in the circumference of the drive wheel. Since 4 spokes finally worked for you, I am guessing that you can fit close to 8 links around the circumference of the drive wheel.
In tracked vehicles if you don't have return rollers on the top it would be a dead track which usually needs less maintenance, keeps mud out of the tracks better, and are thrown off easier. With return rollers on the top it would be a live track which of the 3 things I gave would all be opposite. More mud, more maintenance, and not as easily thrown.
With dead tracks like yours usually there is nothing between the top of the track and the road wheels so the track will rest just above or on top of the road wheels.
I would also play around with having the drive sprocket on the front as well as I think most dead track vehicles drive from the front instead of the rear. Could change performance in the game.
Yep they use rollers to hold the track up.
Next you can make an orbital gearbox system for engaging the track drive forward and reverse etc... fantastic stuff 🎉
Good video thanks...
Going to call it the "Tank of Thrones" 😆😂😆
Return rollers might help with the little flick of the track on the top.
Your sprocket wheel is basically the same as the sprocket wheel on the T-34. I'm surprised how well it works, getting the track pitch to match the cogs on the sprocket wheel really matters.
The suspension is similar to the churchill tank, lots of small road wheels with vertical suspension for each one. Next step should be using the cylinders to make larger road wheels and using the torsion springs to make a proper torsion bar suspension. You should also add few return rollers for the top of the track.
Also look up the double differential tank steering, it can do neutral steer and it should be relatively easy to set it up in gear blocks. With it you can use your V12 to just drive the tracks and a small electric motor to do the steering, smallest motor should be enough if it is geared just right.
My mind wants to envision you and Hyce building a train with tank treads
The reason it doesn't drive so well with the driven wheel on the front is probably because it's trying to push the tracks under itself as opposed to trying to pull itself forward. If the tracks acted as a large rigid rail then it wouldn't really matter I assume.
13:20 if the leading wheel was the one giving the power, it would keep tension on the top, avoiding the issue, though that complicates things when the tracks have to move backwards, since the other end would need to be the powered wheel
The front wheel which in this case is the idler shouldn't have suspension, same with the sprocket and return rollers, the only wheels that have suspension are roadwheels. Another thing is that well the tracks lack return rollers which would fix this issue. Also also also tank tracks are always a bit loose, they don't have any tension, if they did they'd be squishing the suspension making it useless and it would be hard for the wheels to move the tracks effectively slowing down the tank
For the gearbox, you can do a double or triple differential system, with only one input shaft and brakes integrated into it. I tested it and it works fine, you can map the keys for WASD, and both version can do neutral turning.
Wow! That tank is amazing. well worth the time spent off camera!
I have a suggestion for the engine and transmission setup, modern tanks have turbine engines that are constantly at higher rpm, you could make the engine run at whatever its peak torque rpm is and have a normally disengaged clutch going from the engine to the transmission. Then have the w key engage that clutch causing the tank to move forward. Then have 2 brake systems on the out drives from the transmission each keyed to an and d. this would give you your turning, simulating the hydraulic systems real tanks use. You would have to have an open differential to make this part work. It would be set up much like a normal car except with brakes for turning and a clutch that is normally open and engaged with the w key. Hope this inspires something😊
I think the top of the track just does that. i've seen our dozers and rubber track skid steers do that somewhat, they're not very fast so it's not really a problem but you could probably have some wheels up top as well to stop or minimize that i guess.
I like how you did today’s video as a showcase/rundown of your process.
Kan finally just sinking into the game for hours on end hehe. Just gotta find a project you’re truly invested in. :)
You are right about the upper side of the track guiding. There are usually rollers or smaller wheels to support the tracks. I think it would be fine to copy the ones from the bottom without suspension or just even single ones on the upper part offset to those at the bottom.
Love watching you go through the same designs that initial designersnwent through.
Not to beat a dead horse but have you looked at old tank suspensions.
Amazing! The gears actually look realistic, and the traction blocks could be made of rubber if that helps. As for projectiles, wedging something between two spinning wheels usually makes a good launch.
17:44 PistenBully snow groomer.
Nice, that's a hell of an improvement. You definitely need idler wheels on top instead of that plate though, but they may not even need suspension.
I feel like putting that rounded piece on either the end of the cogs or as the teeth on the tracks could help with that sticking issue and help with the ripples in the top of the track.
nice to see you have come so far, I'm have done lots of research on tanks and few of the most subbed tank in workshop are done by me (Although they are all outdated)
I recently came back to the game after the engine update, with lots of newly learned skills and improvements the new tank work in progress is amazing, hope it can be reviewed by you someday.
You should try making a cannon to put onto the tank I’m sure there’s some weird way to do it
i think you need to make the sprocket interface with the track on the same plain as the hinges are, that way spacing gets a lot easier.
maybe try putting holes into the treads and have the sprocket stick fingers through them.
The treads jumping is a symptom of losing tension on the tracks, likely front compressing a bit further than intended, i would stiffen it up.
The midline suspension is fine to be softer but must be adjusted so the overall weight is spread across all of the wheels and off of the drive gear. Using some loose wheels on the return path can be used for some tension but should be left to being just idlers not creating tread tension.
I believe the loose-on-top issue is something real-life tracks face when going too fast
You absolutely need to make a BV-206 type vehicle with this, it would looks great!
The drive wheel is in the back. It is pulling the track on the underside, keeping it tensioned and running smooth on the ground. But it is pushing the track on the top, allowing it to flail slightly as it it pushed harder than it is pulled. The tracks may need to be tensioned more.
Other's have probably mentioned this, but you would need return rollers on the top end of the wheel assembly to get rid of the flopping. Not every tank has them as it saves a little on weight and cost. But if you don't want your track slapping all over, just some solid return wheels on top, like 3-4 pairs, for the track to run across on it's way from tension wheel to sprocket, that'll do just fine. And they don't need suspension. Return rollers don't move at all and they're not supposed to besides rolling to let the track move over them. They just need to be there and solidly anchored to let the track roll over them and not sag down.
However, this is clearly a tank profile. I'm wondering if you'd be able to take the mechanics of this and make it into a dozer/tractor profile. You know the triangle shape where the sprocket is the top point and then the track goes down, runs flat to the front, and then flips up to to back to the sprocket. I believe there's usually a tensioner on the back wheel, but I'm not well versed in those setups. But yeah, this is looking good. You just need to have some way to increase the grip on both sides of your tracks. Your sprocket and roadwheels shouldn't slip and that may come with more weight, but that's a really bad sign for tanks and you need the outside to grip the terrain like crazy. The only ones who only uses steel linked tracks anymore are nations unable to afford rubber padded tracks as well as steel linked ones.
You should add return rollers on the top of the tracks and remove the suspension on the front wheels (idlers), another thing is that tank tracks are supposed to be a bit loose, so that's not an issue, other than that these tracks are really well made. Now you could changing the suspension for actual tank suspension like Horstmann, HVSS, VVSS, Christie or torsion bar suspension which is used mostly on modern tanks.
Excellent series, the hours spent on it have been worth it for the viewers :D
If you put more tension on the tracks it might help with the skip. Extend the frame rails slightly in the front and try it out
Hahaha, "...long story short..." 😂
Luv ya bud! Just teasing
Kan, you need to pull up some pics of the M4A3E8 Sherman's tracks and the Pzkpfw V Panther's tracks. The Sherman uses a system similar to yours (diff style suspension) but it has return rollers above the road wheels. The Panther uses torsion bar suspension but instead of having return rollers, the road wheels pull double duty as return rollers.
Dont need to look up how they work per se, but at least get ideas on wheel arrangement possibilities.
Before making a full tank you could try making something akin to the M3 Half-tracks the US deployed during WW2.
I think it would be less mechanically complex since the treads aren't used for steering. The tracks on a half-track are also quite similar to what you already built.
basic math suggests you need 3,1 blocks between the blocks in the track. (my formular was as follows. the inner sproket is 4 blocks in diameter so 2 in radius. to calculate the quarter of the circle we need r² * pi / 4 so 4 2² * pi / 4 so 4/4*pi which is just pi so 3,14 blocks per track(including the width of the outer sprocket block).)
btw if the inner sproket had a radius of 3 you'd need 7,06 blocks per track whichs schloud be a bit smoother but the drawback is that the track is giant now
Wrong formula (that's area), right number: 4 (diameter) * π / 4 (quarter) happens to be also π. But at a radius of 3 it's: 6 * π / 4 = 1.5 * π = 4.71
also the wheels on the top need to be solid
If you go back to having an alternating repetition, you could make the track's chain link only have one block between the two joints, just place the "gear" tooth on alternating links.
Or, possibly even every third link, since that would result in a tooth spacing of 1 in 3, and should match the same track base and cog/wheel setup you already have.
would be interesting to see you play Tank Mechanic Simulator, you get to rebuild old tanks then test drive them
10:14 I suspect the occasional ripple you are getting in your top tread, that you showed off at the start of the video is because of this.
Track starts to bind, riding up on the cog, which compresses your tensioner suspension, then it slips into place giving us momentary slack which flops around for a moment before the tension takes it back out.
Love your gear block videos kan
So basically you made the T-34's drive sprocket lol. Also, the rail at the top to stop the track from sagging was a thing in WW1 tanks, but now they have wheels, return rollers. Or just have the road wheels be big enough so that they act as return rollers. It would be cool to see you try to build different types of suspension, like torsion bar or christie. My personal favorite is the bell and crank suspension that the Japanese tanks had in WW2, it's a really neat mechanism. Awesome video, as always!
What does the Abrams do? Diagrams don't show anything there, really.
@@Tfin The Abrams has return rollers. It also has torsion bar suspension.
Somebody probably already said this but I have a feeling that one of the reasons that the drive wheels don’t work as good on the front, is that they put compression on the track as it pushes the track down to the ground and back. vs the drive wheel in the back is mostly putting tension on the track. Like I said you probably know this already but just thought I’d share my thoughts.
A way to do a tank transmission is to use a looking differential plus 1 clutch for each side.
After that use a gear system to be able to engage reverse and you have a tank control with too levers.
Its bumpy on the top because while it might look it, parts are not smooth when interacting directly with each other, at speed they get bumpy, put some wheels along the top and it should be smoother.
The forward being better then revrse is a simple issue of how the drive wheel is putting force into the track, pulling/pushing.
Tanks tend to have single wheel top (fixed) tensioners on the track to stop the sag compared to the lower double wheeled tensioners.
13:26 I believe they do use wheels on top and they are called “Return rollers”
When you said "10 wide track" I instantly thought "SNOWMOBILE!!"
Add some return rollers up top to stop the sag
Your design is pretty close to how real tank tracks work, most have quite a high castor angle on the suspension though, which would bring your road wheels more centred between your drive sprocket and idler
Steel tracks tend to have guide wheels on top but rubber tracks usually use a guide plate like your system
You should turn that into the Matilda tank look wise, or use qheels or something to make a railgun and launch something
If you want to make something like the american sherman tank, you can use, 2 road wheels on a bar, that bar has a pivot connected to the suspension. So, your 4 springs you have now, would have 8 wheels on the bottom, with, about 1 wheel above and between them instead of the rail, so maybe 3 of those along the top after spreading out the suspension. As for steering and gearing. I'm still of the opinion just connecting the engine to a simple transmission with forward and reverse gearing, going to a diff that just has the disk brakes on the drive axels on each side. So you can use W for throttle, S applies both brakes, A brakes the left track, D brakes the right tracks. It wasn't until later that tanks started really getting that "zero turn" functionality of one track forward one track backwards. (too complicated to build and machine, and took longer for them to get off the assembly line, leading to a numbers problem when ur enemy is spamming cheaper units. Think RTS tactics)
damn that evolution is wild
13:08 Some tanks actually did it like that, but most use idlers. Many tanks even roll it over the road wheels if they're large enough.
I can list examples, but there are too many.
Out of curiosity, can you make shorter links out of 135 angle beams?
The angle would negate the 90 degrees the stationairy tracks have to make so you can make the links even shorter. But I have no idea if it is at all feasible
You could fix your reverse issue by putting a cog on the front as well. Wouldn't be hard to have a central drive shaft to run off of a single motor when you switch to gas.
Wow that thing just shreds terrain.
the tracks sagging down can be solved by wheels along the top like you mentioned they are called rollers
You could for a projectile launcher use a disc launcher setup where there are spinning wheels to either side and the round just gets pushed between them.
Each of the wheels on a tank tread has its own names depending on where they are on the tread. If it powers the tread it is the sprocket. If they are on the bottom supporting the tanks weight they are the road wheels. If it is the one opposite the sprocket that just kinda sits there that is called the idler. If they are on the top holding up the tread from sagging they are called return rollers.
yeah, most tanks have return rollers on the top to help stop the track sagging. theyre just free-rolling wheels
The simplest way to handle the track going across the top is to let the tops of the road wheels also act as the return rollers rather than adding more wheels to act as return rollers. This is what Russian tanks often do like the t-34 and t-64,72,80, and 90
I think the top tread is getting caught on the tan guide rail holders.
The track type reminds me of the churchle, and the roller kinda looks like a tank destroyer
Can't wait to see this powered by a actual engine, idk if gear blocks would allow for a transmission with gearing like a real manual car
Me: ”oh! Today we’ll get to see a tank with a v12 in it!
Kan: ”hello, I just did the same video like last time, but better! Now watch it again for 20mins!”
😘 love you kan
I think the track getting caught is possibly cause the tracks have a small amount of movement from side to side the the edges clip a tiny bit, so if you used some small wheels instead of rails that probably would be fixed
I also checked and that is how real tanks work
is there anything to do with the vehicles you build, or is it mostly a building game for now? It could be a great competitor to Stormworks in terms of building complex technical vehicles if there were missions or something to do with the cool stuff you build
are there wedges and can you use them to guide the inner grippy parts of the track inside the top guiderail?
try putting the driving sprockets on the front. right now the top is floppy because it pushes more than it pulls so the track gets push into itself and make it flop and lag
yes most tank tracks use top guide wheels too
Good video for now
most tank tracks millitary and civillian use rollers(wheels) under the top of the tracks and not sliding bar(because that causes extra wear)
You could attempt to place a bulldozer body on it and use your large gas engine for extreme torque
you should add wheels to the top and increase length of the suspension on the wheels on the bottom, its a bit too loose
might work beter if you extend the tracks and lower the speed of them during ww2 tanks often did not go faster than 30mph at the max those that did were extremely light like the m18 hellcat
hey i have a great idea if your building tanks with big engines. !!! Try to build the German P. 1000 Ratte !!!
yeah I think top guide wheels would help the top (prob no suspension would be better than with)
Dont cut your thought process out, its the most interesting part besides the end product!
You should put rollers on the top but they dont need to be complicatet. no suspension and probably just 3. also try adding a giagantic lead weight to see how the suspension might react once you put a tank on the tracks. Juguib´n by the size of the person this is a small thank but it would probably still weight a few tons.
One of the most important things you should do is soften up the suspension its way to stiff. maybe even try to use a levermechanism like real tracks do. you basically have a leaver that goes from front to back with a wheel on it and the suspension connects near the wheel. this should smothe it out I believe.
curious what a tank tread with a 9 tooth cog would look like
How did you did this im doing only the engine
build the bodywork onto your car chassis
The M3 halftrack beats out its German equivalent the Sdkfz. 251 both in numbers and its simpler drive mechanism, as the tracks do not turn, whereas the German vehicle has the tracks turn to some degree to help it take corners.
Please put a V12 on it 🙏
The first set of tracks you made looked nothing like a bike chain.
Yes, wheels along the top are common. Not universal, even on the most modern tanks, but common.
Please bring back scrap mechanic co op survival
if you want me to make a powerpoint on how tracks work then i will just like my post and comment power point please to learn how tank treads should work or KAN liking this post will make me do it
Long story short.... Tank tracks!
Next you should use real tank suspension like torsion bar or bogue, can't remember the name of the other one
The neurodivergent hyperfocus is strong in this one
Looking at photos of actual tanks treads shows wheels at the top as well as the bottom.
Add a turret on top