Looks interesting. A few weeks ago I saw an IG post by a custom frame maker and the client requested a UDH hanger for his road bike in an attempt to "future-proof" it as he felt it was only a matter of time before Transmission made its way to the road world. Looks like he isn't wrong.
Amazing groupset and multi-day test ride! Finally, UDH is showing its full potential. I hope for Force and Rival 13-speed in the near future. I have been in Karwendel last week too. Such an amazing place. Sadly, I broke my hand riding down from Karwendelhaus. Stay healthy everyone and enjoy the sweet ride! 🤙🏻
@@davemoss6976 dunno, I have an MTB that is 1x12 and gravel bike that is 2x11. Ideally, I'd simply have the range and steps of both with some +/- clicker. I don't like to have to think about crosschaining in the middle of a hard technical ascent. I saw how Transmission shifts under load and it's great
I'll be excited when this trickles down to Force and Rival. I'm a 2x kinda guy but the closer spacing of 13s to make mixed road riding more enjoyable finally seems to bridge that gap for me. I've always liked the simplicity of a 1x but hated the cadence problems when getting the range needed.
You were at Tegernsee lake not lake Constance (Bodensee). Big difference in both location and size and probably some other metrics too. I ran my first marathon by running two laps around the lake. If i did the same around lake Constance it would've been 520km 😂😂😂😂
Looks like an incredible ride... Austrian alps are on the bucket list. I think the new xplr group tech is awesome but i run GX cassette derailleur on my gravel bike because it allows for a bigger chain ring than the standard 40-42T
Nice information. I'm actually building a Frankenstein 11 speed. GRX crank, chainring, and rear derailleur with a SRAM 11spd 10-42 cassette. I don't have mountains by me, just some hills so I think I'll be fine.
It’s a wonder that such a RD to frame interface wasn’t developed earlier. Maybe it will become industry standard. You’re a lucky fellow David to have such a job!
I got to check it out under embargo and have to say the size of the rear derailleur is absolutely ridiculous. It's so big you'd think it was designed for an e-bike!
I thought the purpose of the derailleur hanger was that it was designed to be the weak sacrificial part that bent or broke in a crash and was easy and cheap to replace. Now we will break an expensive derailleur or frame mount. Am I missing something???
I have this bike model, ofc with difrent group set, need to say the paint seems robust, somone hit it hard(maybe fly with it in the box and not secure frame correctly)
first it will have 2 rings on the front, then you will be convinced to upgrade to 3 at the front, eventually anything less than 13 x13 will be hopelessly out of date,
Those single tooths jumps at the high gear range is superb, as it significantly improves usability at higher speeds and related control of cadence under load at speed. Low range jumps aren’t that big of an issue, as the relative speed differential as a result of those jumps isn’t of sufficient significance to close those ratio gaps. My perspective is from Campy Ekar 13s 9-42t cassette, loads of steep high mountains and rolling valley terrain as reference.
I certainly don't need another cog (that is actually a narrower casette range than my current 12 speed cassette by several less teeth) that costs three thousand dollars more. No wonder real world people are exploring other lesser known brand components for their groupsets. The only people riding this expensive a groupset will be sponsored riders , wealthy techie chasers, and a certain formula one driver who used it at Unbound.
Short answer? Nope! This year I've built a road bike myself. Did I chose 12 speed? Nope. Came to conclusion 11 is more than enough for amateur like me. Just to mention, I still have 9-speed road bike nad wheels as well (old Ultegra/Tiagra components from 2010). If one goes group rides and want's to "fine-tune" cadence with colegues, going wheel to wheel, than it might be a thing to consider. Otherwise? No point of bothering...
This is a much more robust design than you’re imagining. The whole structure is reinforced by the thru axle. You don’t worry about your frame breaking when an impact the to wheel transmits through the axle and frame do you?
@@WordupG those are upward forces these will be from the side if you crash. If SRAM is so confident I’m sure they won’t mind paying for any damaged frames from their new design 😂
@@BikeLife154 It isn't a new design though, it's the same thing that has been on the last mountain bike groupsets...Have you seen a massive volume of bike destruction from the bikes that have Transmission derailleurs on them? I haven't seen anything about it and there have been a lot of demos of how tough that system is and the punishment it can take
What’s your take on SRAM’s and Campagnolo’s approach to 13 speed just considering the gear ratios, specifically SRAM’s 10-46 and Campaq’s 10-44 and 10-48 options?
Waiting till 14 speed where they add a big ~53 on top. then it could superseed the range 2x gives and not have too big jumps. but we are slowly going there. i feel with UDH it wouldnt be much of a problem cause you have much tighter tolerances what the derailleur does and no problems with indexing.
Maybe this applies more to road than gravel or MTB, but isn't the idea of a rear mech hanger that it is more likely to break than the frame or the rear derailleur?
Yeah that's what I never understood as well. It's designed to break to protect your frame. If it doesn't do that, or worse, is advertised as being super strong, I don't have confidence that it doesn't seriously screw up my frame in a crash.
@@dismiggo It's connected to the wheel axle so it's a much stronger connection that would not be damaged under the same circumstances a hanger would break or bend.
@@lechprotean I've been using one on my gravel bike and the idea is that the strength of the connection does not make it vulnerable in the same ways that previous designs were, and in extreme cases (like the videos where people took sledge hammers directly to the derailleur) the derailleur failed but they were able to get a replacement part to get it working again.
At least for me that 13th speed is honestly kinda useless. Barely use the current 10-11-13 cluster on my existing xplr. Would have wished for a bigger jump in range. 48t cassettes would have been awesome.
For me it looks super useful. its super cool to have a 1-tooth step on cruising cogs and low gears for the steepest climbs. This system makes a gravel really versatile
5Dev makes a mullet adapter for $180usd but sold out/backordered. requires some modification to frame. No idea how well it works but might give the Crux more life before an upgrade.
Shame there was no real comparison to Campag Ekar.. since they were the ones who pioneered 13 speed one-by for a start. Would have allowed to compare options and experience
For real. I did xt cage on my grx derailleur and 11-46 Cassette . Matched with my oval 36t up front it's perfect for super super steep and up to 38 kmh comfortably on flats.. what more could you need?
Awesome review exactly what I was waiting for I have a 2022 diverge expert sram nx eagle 1x12, 11-50t. What else beside the cassette would I need for it to work on mine? I really would love that extra gear. However, mine runs flawlessly, and I don’t want to reinvent everything?? Please help appreciate it so much!!
I live here. Im really thinking that my full suspension x country mtb with 2.2 gravel tyres is a better option for the terrain we have. Of course on asphalt its slower, but in the mountains is where we want to be...
I think it's a shame they've moved away from the 12-speed XPLR system. Nothing on Red 13 is compatible with Force/Rival 12, so to go 13 Red you'll need to buy into the whole groupset (so I'll pass on that, thanks). I have a Force 12 XPLR setup and it's great - i'd just like a 12-speed Red cassette option. Oh well.
@@davidarthurNot compared to an AXS Eagle RDR at 10-52. Or even a mechanical setup like a GX (or higher) RDR combined with SRAM mechanical brifters and one of the Ratio Technologies kits. You can also use these setups for smaller cassettes as well if you are capable of playing with your B-screw.
I didn't experience any issues during the riding on this trip, and I've been riding the bike back home on local trails and not noticed any problems. What sort of problems are you talking about?
@@florenzebg Oh that is interesting, is that with current XPLR? I've been riding that on my own Crux for 1.5 years now and not noticed that happen. Maybe I've just been lucky!!
I have an Apex mechanical 12 speed with a GX MTB derailleur and a Sunrace 11-50 cassette. I give up a tiny amount of gear spacing but gain a bailout gear for big off-road climbs.
Did you run the 40 tires or the 45's? I have that same bike, but I'm concerned about clearance. I use 44's now, but I'm not sure I can get the 45's to work.
I was on the 40s as the Grail officially clears a 42 and when I tried a 45 on the first Grail I tested clearance at the rear stays was super tight. I personally don't want to ride anything narrower than a 45
10-46 is not very impressive. My budget hard tail MTB has 10 speed with 11-48, and I get by fine. I think 12 speed should be more than enough for everyone, given a reasonable selection of intermediate gears. To me it is about range, and 10-46 should be easily achievable with 12 speed.
I don't understand why these companies only update one tooth at a time for groupsets. Like, why has it taken ~5 years each to add one more gear? I want to see a 1x16 drivetrain or something like that, let's really send it.
@@swazi5 That's true, but if I'm not mistaken, 130mm rear hub spacing emerged around the same time of 8 speed Shimano groupsets. That same hub spacing would eventually hold up to 11 speeds, so it seems they could have skipped 9 and 10 speeds right then and there, right?
Your dialogue in the fields looks a whole lot better than mine in my garage... Dang it. Fun times riding with you out there.
Well you garage is much nicer and tidier than mine! #jealous
Very excited for 12-speed groupsets to get cheaper
$10,000 road groupset coming up!
Looks interesting. A few weeks ago I saw an IG post by a custom frame maker and the client requested a UDH hanger for his road bike in an attempt to "future-proof" it as he felt it was only a matter of time before Transmission made its way to the road world. Looks like he isn't wrong.
i love the cheeky banter between you and Ben, that's rely fun.
Amazing groupset and multi-day test ride! Finally, UDH is showing its full potential. I hope for Force and Rival 13-speed in the near future.
I have been in Karwendel last week too. Such an amazing place. Sadly, I broke my hand riding down from Karwendelhaus.
Stay healthy everyone and enjoy the sweet ride! 🤙🏻
Not enough gears.
I'm waiting for 15 speed.
this is not about amount of gears its about range and gaps. this is looks like perfect 1by setup.
46 speed
See you in 2 years
Yes how did we ever manage with just 12.
Mullet setup (10-52) for the win!
A 13-speed cassette makes great sense for a 1x. Stand by for grousing by the cycling Luddites, though.
Proud luddite here. 13 might make sense for 1x, but 1x makes no sense, so 13 speed makes no sense either.
Looks better
@@davemoss6976 dunno, I have an MTB that is 1x12 and gravel bike that is 2x11. Ideally, I'd simply have the range and steps of both with some +/- clicker. I don't like to have to think about crosschaining in the middle of a hard technical ascent. I saw how Transmission shifts under load and it's great
Came for the groupset, stayed for the group ride. cheers
I'll be excited when this trickles down to Force and Rival.
I'm a 2x kinda guy but the closer spacing of 13s to make mixed road riding more enjoyable finally seems to bridge that gap for me. I've always liked the simplicity of a 1x but hated the cadence problems when getting the range needed.
You were at Tegernsee lake not lake Constance (Bodensee). Big difference in both location and size and probably some other metrics too. I ran my first marathon by running two laps around the lake. If i did the same around lake Constance it would've been 520km 😂😂😂😂
Looks like an incredible ride... Austrian alps are on the bucket list. I think the new xplr group tech is awesome but i run GX cassette derailleur on my gravel bike because it allows for a bigger chain ring than the standard 40-42T
You have one of the best jobs in the world.
Nice information. I'm actually building a Frankenstein 11 speed. GRX crank, chainring, and rear derailleur with a SRAM 11spd 10-42 cassette. I don't have mountains by me, just some hills so I think I'll be fine.
why SRAM cassette? You can mount 11-46 on any grx or even Ultegra RD
It’s a wonder that such a RD to frame interface wasn’t developed earlier. Maybe it will become industry standard. You’re a lucky fellow David to have such a job!
I got to check it out under embargo and have to say the size of the rear derailleur is absolutely ridiculous. It's so big you'd think it was designed for an e-bike!
I suppose 14 will be here soon...
I thought the purpose of the derailleur hanger was that it was designed to be the weak sacrificial part that bent or broke in a crash and was easy and cheap to replace. Now we will break an expensive derailleur or frame mount. Am I missing something???
How fast is it around Centennial Park?
Impressive be interesting the watch a future comparison to Ekar 😊 wow the views were amazing David.. Pete 🚴🏻👍
The paint on the canyons rear drop out is cracked. Why? is there some extra stress from UDH?
I have this bike model, ofc with difrent group set, need to say the paint seems robust, somone hit it hard(maybe fly with it in the box and not secure frame correctly)
Yeah that happened in transit, which does happen sometimes unfortunately
0:08 I can tell from the opening that David looks very excited about the new groupset. 👀👀👀
😂😂
😂
What an amazing video! Loved the views
The trans mission is already putting stress on the carbon frame, paint cracks at 2:15
The D hanger is meant to take the stress off vital parts
That was damage from transit of the bike from Germany to my house in the UK unfortunately
I'm gonna wait a few years and get a 21 speed bike that has a weird front mech thing that changes a gear thing on the front!!!! 🤯
first it will have 2 rings on the front, then you will be convinced to upgrade to 3 at the front, eventually anything less than 13 x13 will be hopelessly out of date,
do we need 10-11-12-13? maybe a ring between 38 and 46 instead...
I think you want the tight spacing at the low end and bigger spacing at the high end of the cassette.
Not sure if you really need the 10t cog though
Those single tooths jumps at the high gear range is superb, as it significantly improves usability at higher speeds and related control of cadence under load at speed.
Low range jumps aren’t that big of an issue, as the relative speed differential as a result of those jumps isn’t of sufficient significance to close those ratio gaps.
My perspective is from Campy Ekar 13s 9-42t cassette, loads of steep high mountains and rolling valley terrain as reference.
I certainly don't need another cog (that is actually a narrower casette range than my current 12 speed cassette by several less teeth) that costs three thousand dollars more. No wonder real world people are exploring other lesser known brand components for their groupsets. The only people riding this expensive a groupset will be sponsored riders , wealthy techie chasers, and a certain formula one driver who used it at Unbound.
Needing a new frame was a stupid move, there goes potential upgrade profits…..
Really enjoyed that video! Well done!
Nice hollydayish video, David! Love 1x. How about the chain line? Compared to the Ekar perhaps...
Why is the paint already chipping at the rear derailleur???
just a bit of damage from transit, as the bike has been sent to my house
Short answer? Nope!
This year I've built a road bike myself. Did I chose 12 speed? Nope. Came to conclusion 11 is more than enough for amateur like me. Just to mention, I still have 9-speed road bike nad wheels as well (old Ultegra/Tiagra components from 2010).
If one goes group rides and want's to "fine-tune" cadence with colegues, going wheel to wheel, than it might be a thing to consider. Otherwise? No point of bothering...
What a job you have! You do well 👍
I think we need triple front chainrings and 13 speed cassettes
I have 11-46 rear and 36 oval 11 speed and mountains or flat I've never needed another gear
Could you share the route? So beautiful!
Tell me more about the fortune you're spending in derailer hangers por favor. ;)
So what happens to your new carbon frame in the event of a crash with this new UDH standard? I’d rather the hanger bend/break than my frame.
This has not been a big issue with direct mount Transmission derailleurs that are facing much more punishment on mountain bikes.
This is a much more robust design than you’re imagining. The whole structure is reinforced by the thru axle. You don’t worry about your frame breaking when an impact the to wheel transmits through the axle and frame do you?
@@WordupG those are upward forces these will be from the side if you crash. If SRAM is so confident I’m sure they won’t mind paying for any damaged frames from their new design 😂
@@BikeLife154 It isn't a new design though, it's the same thing that has been on the last mountain bike groupsets...Have you seen a massive volume of bike destruction from the bikes that have Transmission derailleurs on them? I haven't seen anything about it and there have been a lot of demos of how tough that system is and the punishment it can take
What’s your take on SRAM’s and Campagnolo’s approach to 13 speed just considering the gear ratios, specifically SRAM’s 10-46 and Campaq’s 10-44 and 10-48 options?
Waiting till 14 speed where they add a big ~53 on top. then it could superseed the range 2x gives and not have too big jumps. but we are slowly going there. i feel with UDH it wouldnt be much of a problem cause you have much tighter tolerances what the derailleur does and no problems with indexing.
Maybe this applies more to road than gravel or MTB, but isn't the idea of a rear mech hanger that it is more likely to break than the frame or the rear derailleur?
Yeah that's what I never understood as well. It's designed to break to protect your frame. If it doesn't do that, or worse, is advertised as being super strong, I don't have confidence that it doesn't seriously screw up my frame in a crash.
@@dismiggo It's connected to the wheel axle so it's a much stronger connection that would not be damaged under the same circumstances a hanger would break or bend.
@@BrianMcDonald the idea is that the derailleur body is taking the beating now and worst case, the thru axle.
@@lechprotean I've been using one on my gravel bike and the idea is that the strength of the connection does not make it vulnerable in the same ways that previous designs were, and in extreme cases (like the videos where people took sledge hammers directly to the derailleur) the derailleur failed but they were able to get a replacement part to get it working again.
great review and great ride in Austria
Thanks! 👍
How many unique ratios are there on a 2x12?
At least for me that 13th speed is honestly kinda useless. Barely use the current 10-11-13 cluster on my existing xplr. Would have wished for a bigger jump in range. 48t cassettes would have been awesome.
For me it looks super useful. its super cool to have a 1-tooth step on cruising cogs and low gears for the steepest climbs. This system makes a gravel really versatile
what chainring size are you running?
@@raphindahouse 44
@@raphindahouse 38
@@pipi1485 I think the mullet setup with the 10-52 eagle would suite you more.
David does the canyon grail cf slx 2024 also have this mount for the rear gear group or only the cfr xplr? its not clear on their site. thanks!
14 will be even better
I love your adventures mate
I love watching videos of stuff I’ll never be able to afford lol
5Dev makes a mullet adapter for $180usd but sold out/backordered. requires some modification to frame. No idea how well it works but might give the Crux more life before an upgrade.
Shame there was no real comparison to Campag Ekar.. since they were the ones who pioneered 13 speed one-by for a start. Would have allowed to compare options and experience
Stay tuned, I've now got the bike back home so will do some more content, and Ekar comparison is a good shout. Happy to take any more requests
1 x 11 Garbaruk 10t to 50t is good enough!
For real. I did xt cage on my grx derailleur and 11-46 Cassette . Matched with my oval 36t up front it's perfect for super super steep and up to 38 kmh comfortably on flats.. what more could you need?
Hello David, love to look of the Sram bar bag. Who is it made by and can you buy them? Group set looks ok too lol
Awesome review exactly what I was waiting for I have a 2022 diverge expert sram nx eagle 1x12, 11-50t. What else beside the cassette would I need for it to work on mine? I really would love that extra gear. However, mine runs flawlessly, and I don’t want to reinvent everything?? Please help appreciate it so much!!
you'll need a new frame unfortunately .. u need a frame compatible with udh.. your 22 has gone the way of the do-do
I live here. Im really thinking that my full suspension x country mtb with 2.2 gravel tyres is a better option for the terrain we have. Of course on asphalt its slower, but in the mountains is where we want to be...
Did we need 9 speed? 😅
How's the seated fit on the Medium, David? Not too stretched for you?
Fit on the medium is good, just the right amount of stretch
Nice route! anyone have the .gpx of this? thanks!
@davidarthur Where in Germany was this tested and filmed?
Great video! Any chance you could share the route you did? ;)
I would much rather like to see the cassette starting at 9 to be able to use on the roads as well as in heavy terrain.
Just get a bigger chainring then. Or a Garbaruk 12spd cassette
so this video was done with insta X4 ?
Large parts of the riding segments were, yeah
10 spd was also enough at the time😂
Green review! Clean rivers with cows pooing in it😂
Canyon can first replace their PF bottom brackets with T47 threaded then we can talk.
Wow so Sram did what campa did already a few years ago and already where putting a second version on the market 🤣
I think it's a shame they've moved away from the 12-speed XPLR system. Nothing on Red 13 is compatible with Force/Rival 12, so to go 13 Red you'll need to buy into the whole groupset (so I'll pass on that, thanks). I have a Force 12 XPLR setup and it's great - i'd just like a 12-speed Red cassette option. Oh well.
Having a proper MTB u would enjoy a lot more here.... :) but group set is nice, cant deny.
Shimano is now sooo behind :) they look outdated too.
A $650 cassette but no lower gearing. Yeah, nah.....
Who do they think can afford these parts?
There is lower gearing though ?
@@davidarthurNot compared to an AXS Eagle RDR at 10-52. Or even a mechanical setup like a GX (or higher) RDR combined with SRAM mechanical brifters and one of the Ratio Technologies kits.
You can also use these setups for smaller cassettes as well if you are capable of playing with your B-screw.
Ekar is similar? At much lower cost
Ekar doesn't have electric shifting so far. And not really the same tier either.
Well electronic shifting on a 1by is not really a big deal, doesn’t add much
David, why exactly can you not believe SRAM did this and what can you not believe they did?
Yes better that 12 (that's why they built it) but not as good as 2x's...
Since the cassette is now wider, do you see a problem with extreme cross-chaining?
I didn't experience any issues during the riding on this trip, and I've been riding the bike back home on local trails and not noticed any problems. What sort of problems are you talking about?
@@davidarthur i have found that when you are on the ends of the range chain drops are more frequent. But nice to hear it works fine👍
@@florenzebg Oh that is interesting, is that with current XPLR? I've been riding that on my own Crux for 1.5 years now and not noticed that happen. Maybe I've just been lucky!!
I have an Apex mechanical 12 speed with a GX MTB derailleur and a Sunrace 11-50 cassette. I give up a tiny amount of gear spacing but gain a bailout gear for big off-road climbs.
@@florenzebgsame with my current XPLR
1 piece rear mech will save a fortune in rear hangers 😂..It will need to as your going to spend a fortune by buying into it
Did you run the 40 tires or the 45's? I have that same bike, but I'm concerned about clearance. I use 44's now, but I'm not sure I can get the 45's to work.
I was on the 40s as the Grail officially clears a 42 and when I tried a 45 on the first Grail I tested clearance at the rear stays was super tight. I personally don't want to ride anything narrower than a 45
what's the bike at 3:25?
The new Crux
fixing problems that dont exist...
@6:59 @7:56 @10:25
A Ben Delany infomercial.
As a slow and weak rider, I need infinity number of gear.
Damn won't need a ebike anymore
Bet it cost a small fortune
Lighter and more aero?
10-46 is not very impressive. My budget hard tail MTB has 10 speed with 11-48, and I get by fine. I think 12 speed should be more than enough for everyone, given a reasonable selection of intermediate gears. To me it is about range, and 10-46 should be easily achievable with 12 speed.
Jesus Crist man....🙈
Not „Bodensee“ 🙆🏻♂️😬😬
yes you're right, my mistake apologies, just rushing at the end with the edit :(
@@davidarthur Sorry, I didn't mean to be picky. However, I live there, and it immediately caught my eye. ;)
That decent is brutal on a gravel bike, the way up is fantastic but the way down….
Yeah it was pretty tough and rough in places!
@@davidarthur Maybe using the Grizl would have been a better option.
Screw sram I’ve got 5 bikes with 11 speed red etap and they dropped me like a hot turd
Lol my 2x9 gravel has more range😂
It’ll be 14 speed next year 🤣😂
12speed is already more than enough imo
people said this when 9 speed came out lol ;)
I want 15
@@davidarthur And they were right back then
2(3) x 10 Done! 🙂
I have a 12 speed xplr. If you are doing bike backing and carrying camping gear, I would love to have that extra gear on hills.
I bet it doesn’t
Shimano... who?
Durrrr… we need a 15 speed. A message for the bike industry 🖕🏻
It sounds weird when non-Americans say "right off the bat" 😂
Like a cricket bat? 😂
2x11 or 1x12 is enough for mortal cyclists. This is revenue stream
I don't understand why these companies only update one tooth at a time for groupsets. Like, why has it taken ~5 years each to add one more gear? I want to see a 1x16 drivetrain or something like that, let's really send it.
Hard to fit with current frame/wheel width standards
@@swazi5 That's true, but if I'm not mistaken, 130mm rear hub spacing emerged around the same time of 8 speed Shimano groupsets. That same hub spacing would eventually hold up to 11 speeds, so it seems they could have skipped 9 and 10 speeds right then and there, right?
@@Dreamweaver94 yeah probably comes down to gear spacing and bring able to manufacture a narrow enough chain that's still strong enough
ye...shimano looks like old and lame
Yeah they're getting destroyed in the mtn/gravel markets...