Aircraft stored for MONTHS. Are they safe to return?!
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- Опубликовано: 19 июн 2024
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As the Airline industry starts to recover and Boeing starts delivering their jets again there are thousands of aircraft that have been put into storage, all over the world. HOW are these aircraft treated before they can return and fly with passengers again? This is the theme I will be talking about in tonights video.
As always, I would love to hear your questions and suggestions in the vide comments!
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Below you will find the links to videos and sources used in this episode. Enjoy checking them out!
Starting Jet engine after preservation:
• Video
KING 5 Grounded MAX´s
• Planes stack up in Ren...
• Grounded 737 Max 8 jet...
FL Technics (D-check)
• Video
Boeing: 737MAX and 787 flying together
• Boeing 787-10 Dreamlin...
Flying over Greenland during the night with the northern lights - sounds like a fantastic sight!
you mean a "absolute fantastic" sight
one of those pinch yourself moments. i've had those in my career too. where you are so grateful for being able to do what you do.
Thanks to the labor and care of engineering teams. Otherwise it could be quite the opposite.
BjornPilot has some great videos that include the northern lights I think
I'm a nervous passenger (more to do with a fear of heights. I don't freak out or get drunk or anything), yet I'd have *loved* to have been the only passenger on that flight. It sounds amazing!
If there is one thing I can ask of you - please never change the lovely way you pronounce "aircroft". It brings me joy and happiness.
I like him say "owto" pilot/
Wow. You'd said before that airlines don't want to store birds if they can help it, but this video certainly makes it clear why. That's a lot of system hours they run up just to put it back in service.
Yeah, this example is for aircraft which hasn’t been delivered yet. You can remove the last 6 days if it has already been delivered.
@@MentourPilot Thank you I was wondering the exact same thing. Admittedly I misinterpreted the video title. I thought that you were going to talk about things from the airline's point of view not Boeing's.
I take care of a large fleet of trucks and trailers, many of which have been parked for an extended period of time during this pandemic. Unfortunately, it's not good for any sort of mechanical equipment to sit idle. But, we have our procedures for bringing them to life again, and we ensure everything is running and in safe condition. Nobody really wants equipment sitting like that, but we can deal with it.
@Highly Polished Turd
How much of a problem are seals hardening in those vehicles?
@@watershed44 If the trucks were to sit for a REALLY long time, that could become a problem, but we haven't seen much of that happening. We cycle trucks out of the fleet roughly every 4 years, so they're new enough to avoid most of that. These trucks are meant to run for over a million km, so they're built for the long term. I periodically start them up, run them for an hour or so, and drive them around the yard to keep everything working.
We have a few trailers that have been sitting for a year or two, and those can have difficulties with the air brakes and axles that lift and lower by air pressure.
So yeah, your question raises a valid point. One of the worst things to do to a vehicle is.... Nothing. Sitting for prolonged periods can potentially cause many headaches.
@@highlypolishedturd7947 Thanks for the reply friend. It just bothers me that all those jet engines are sitting and the fluids are not being circulated as the mfs intended as airlines almost always have these planes in constant use in the past.
@@watershed44 You're welcome. I've heard Mentour say in a previous video that during storage, engines will be run long enough to get everything warm to circulate fluids, as you said, and cook out any moisture. Which is why I run the sitting trucks periodically.
@@TELE6220 I'm a pretty vile person.
My fear is shortcutting maintenance with such razor thin profit margins and vastly reduced revenue.
That is why airlines shop around for the cheapest places to have their maintenance done. I’ve heard of Singapore, Mexico, El Salvador, and a few others doing major checks on North American air carriers. At one time even China was working in the heavy maintenance field on wide body aircraft. However, they do all work to the same specification as required by the manufacturer and the country of origin as is often shown by audits performed by the flag carriers country of registration’s representative. Also the reason why some country’s carriers are not allowed to fly into the EU since the maintenance standards in some countries do not meet the standards required by the destination country.
Not worried about the boeing checks. Just the airline checks. For boeing if they deliver more aircraft that are dangerous theyre simply done for. They cannot deliver a deadly aircraft for the next 5-10 years probably to regain public trust. Im sure thats why it took so incredibly long to get the max back in the air. But airlines are probably more stressed about income than their planes right now...
@@natelav534 and I was thinking of the return to service on aircraft already in the fleet being returned to service after almost a year. I bet there will be a lot of ferry permits to the nearest open hangars. 🙂
This is the most obvious scenario...airlines will take short cuts
Well, yeah but also no. Remember, that planes are really expensive, so they don't want to risk their investment either. What good would it be if they saved $50k on maintenance check if they loose $100M+ machine?
I had the opportunity to work for a mid-western carrier that purchased a small fleet of DC-9's from a storage in SE Asia. They sat idle in Indonesia for 18-24 months. The corrosion maint on those aircraft took the maint personnel into new realms of corrosion control. The worst was inside the fuel tanks where linear round bubbly shaped corrosion had eaten to unreachable joins.
The graphic and sound effects are getting wilder and wilder :-)
We do aim to please! 😂
I love the graphics, but not the unnecessary harsh clashing metallic sfx
@@MentourPilot keep it coming. you can't please em all but keep expressing yourself.
Cool new intro graphic!!! Love your videos. They've made me feel so much more comfortable flying. I was great flying as a kid, but as an adult I've had panic attacks or anxiety on flights for absolutely no reason. I'm confident that the next time I fly, I will feel much better because your videos have shown me just how safe flying really is, and how turbulence presents almost zero risk.
Interesting that you mention critters getting into the engines. Another channel I follow is Premier 1 Driver. He is a former F14 jockey, now a GA pilot flying a Premier 1D. In one of his videos he mentioned that as he was getting ready to takeoff, one of the engines was running too hot. Turned out there was a bee's nest in it. He said it cost 500K to have the engine unmounted, shipped for repair, and then returned to service. Even small jets are pretty darn expensive to maintain.
premier is an ex f16 pilot not f14
With all the wasps I've encountered in parked cars, i'm not surprised they build in planes too.
Bet he'll cover his engine openings now.
I love how you'll explain a detailed topic and at the end say, "that's it guys!". Sounding as if it was a walk in the park.
G, day Mentour pilot, from Sydney, Australia.
* it's interesting why the Boeing had to make programming changes to the 737 max. The FAA has signed off on the plane airworthiness after these changes. I would like a program detailing the changes in simple terms.🇦🇺🌏
A lot of the storage issues you address are familiar to even grass patch plane owners ! A lot recreational pilots curtail their flying in certain seasons - most often winter - and few hangars on grass patches are heated . Many are open-faced, so idle aircraft are subject to the vaguaries of weather and critters too . Light aircraft owners devise many unique ways to keep weather and critters at bay ranging from moth balls to large plastic bags, tennis balls, gust locks, and even tire isolating boards or mats are among those I've seen . Great video on a complex topic ! Thanks !
If the general public could just see this video, the introduction into the regular flight schedules of the Max will be a non-event, or a celebrated event! Good job Capt.
Boeing know the response of passengers will make or break the 737 Max. It's probably the most famous plane for the wrong reason. They have in place a sophisticated response to passenger anxiety. However, this is what happens when you squander your impeccable reputation for profit.
They will not get me on a 737 Plummet Max.
If I know in advance which airlines have Boeing Max in their fleet, I would book with another airline, just in case I might end up in one, since I have not updated my will in years!
Yes, they should have left the engineers in management and left the MBA's in the backroom of accounting. I honestly believe that the is going to go into history as an exceptional safe plane going forward.. After all, when th3 two crashed, there were 370 others Max's racking up over 8,000 hours of faultless time.
@@RonCrocker_aka_ronc32 The plane will be as safe as you'd expect modern airlers to be & generally are. That doesn't erase the mistake hitherto. The relationship with regulators was also contributory factor. There needs to be a much clearer line of demarcation.
It’s amazing what humans have wrought. I have trouble keeping my check book straight. This gentleman is an amazing presenter. I don5 think he is reading a script and he never misses a beat. Very, very professional the insertion of pictures etc.
I worked on the MAX on 3 separate occasions from November 2018 to February 2019. They were brand new and had that new plane smell. Wonder what they smell like inside now that they’ve been stored for a while.
They probably smell like burnt cash, lots and lots of it.
@@thedausthed and very soon they'll smell of brown trousers once the first passengers get onboard
This is probably a dumb question but is the “new-plane smell” the same as new-car smell??
I’ve never really flown on a brand new plane before... Most I’ve flown in have had at least 5 years of age and more...
@@dailysleaze the Max is the most-scrutinized and safest aircraft that will be in the sky. Honestly, I'd have no problems flying on one.
@@mikeL5183 Agreed. And most people don't know (nor care about) the difference between the different aircraft types, IMO. There will be a certain percentage who will refuse to fly on the MAX...at least for a while. But IF this bird keeps its nose clean, I highly suspect that even the "extremist" holdouts will relent and fly on her, once again.
Great video! So happy that there are so many profesional people looking through the functionality of the planes we travel with!
I used to work on an airport. I was in airport operations. I got to know a bit how the airline industry takes precaution and makes sure to fallow all safety procedures. Rest assured, the airline industry cuts no corners. Their is no room for error when it comes to planes. Everything on the plane, the runway, the runway lights, and protocol is dialed down to the T.
Didnt work there long huh?🤭😆😉
I know the air crews haven't been in storage but I'll bet some of them have been furloughed since the beginning of the pandemic. So I assume they haven't been flying. Is there a procedure for bringing a pilot who hasn't flown since March back up to speed?
This is an interesting topic that’s discussed by a capable down to earth pilot who is a good teacher.
I have been on 3 delivery flights. They are amazing! 2 73s and a 78.
I can't explain why I'm obsessed with all of your content, but I can't wait for more!
How is it possible for the 787 to take off with such a high climb angle? Does that also translate to reduced stall risk at cruising altitude?
I (vaguely) remember watching an episode of Mayday in which the pitot tubes were not covered properly while sitting at an airport for nearly a month and a wasp had built a nest in the captain's pitot tube and he ended up crashing the plane due to following the incorrect data.
On another episode, the tape covering the static ports was not removed after that area of the airplane was washed and the tape was not noticed by the captain during his walk-around; shortly after take-off at night, the crew thought they were about 9000 feet up, but instead crashed into the Pacific Ocean. Yeah, not doing all the steps for coming back into service can cause major problems.
Thank you for preparing this video. It was informative & interesting. Good luck & stay safe.
Always a good day when you release a new video. Great work as always, man.
While you were talking about covering the holes that measure the airspeed all I could think of was the crash that happened because someone didn't uncover that 😬
Mentour: "One of the most fun flights that I've done in my career (...) no passengers on board".
Can relate. No passengers where I work, but we have viewers and audiences, and I often joke that the job would be much better without them. :-)
Love the new visuals and new office. Just missing your co-pilots
Awesome channel! Your videos are invaluable! Good stuff!!!
This is a great video on all of the things that will happen to planes that haven't been delivered yet, and are still owned by the manufacturer. I believe most of the stored planes are from the existing airline fleets. For those, it'll be a similar but shorter procedure, and it'll be the airline that's responsible for the work. Assuming they put them in storage properly, and bring them back from storage as recommended by the manufacturer, there's no significant risk. But they don't get re-certified, unless for some reason the individual plane lost its certification.
This stuff applies to little planes, too! If you are ever offered a flight in a small plane, it's not a bad idea to ask the pilot when the plane flew last. If he doesn't know, or if it's not recent, maybe take a pass on that flight. :)
Noticing all the little changes you are making. Love you brought the intro music back + added new sounds / animations. Not sure if this camera angle is a new setup but it looked great. As always your content was top notch! I'm nearly finished with my PPL partly thanks to you petter. Keep it up!
This Patreon member binge watches your videos, I'm completely hooked on your awesome information. 👏
What your saying is so true, when our C-130's sit for a period of time we have continual write ups but, go a a trip on the road for 2 or 3 weeks flying every day and she runs like a well oiled sewing machine with day to day no problems.
These are some instresting topics I never would get the chance to know. Thanks Peter.
Great job Peter, as always!
Good storage overview! I happen to know that birds and bugs will find ANYTHING to nest in. Spiders love pitot tubes!
thanks so much for this video it set my mind back at ease I was hoping you would do a video about this, I knew I could count on you !
The biggest fear should be airlines not having the funds to complete proper maintenance when they have returned to service.
I'd say human error is (as always...) the biggest concern. People's jobs and families depend on getting those jets working again, the sooner the better. Also, given the recent lay-offs, I would imagine some new staff needs to be (re-)hired. Maybe some did not receive proper training or are just assumed to have retained their skills while unemployed without any training. Their very jobs, families and lives depend on delivering a functioning aircraft, sooner rather than later.
That being said, I don't think this is a huge problem, management should be well aware and act accordingly. Otherwise, what do they receive their salary for...
Won't be an issue
Very informative, thank you.
No questions. Just incredibly interesting. Great channel and presentations. Thank you.
Thanks for the information. It removes a lot of worries from the back of my mind, though I knew the aircraft would be thoroughly checked, serviced and tested before putting them to commercial flying.
Thank you, very important things to know, even for a simple enthusiast as I am. Well done!
thank you for the new video mentour ♥
Very informal video. Thank you
Awesome content as always
and I can't stop binge-watching the new intro :D
Love from india
Great video, many thanks
Excellent informative video, thank you.
Great video Mentour i like your new studio office, now Mrs Mentour can have her lounge back hehe! Have a fantastic weekend my friend
Very interesting as usual.
Thank you!
I left a new Mercedes in storage for 18 months while overseas. When I returned, every piece of rubber on the car had dry rotted, and the car was totaled out by just sitting in "dry" storage.
Did you perform any long term parking procedures then?🤭
Great video. Friend asked me about the this just the other day. Will send this to them.
Another great video! Best regards from Polish aviators. :)
Your videos are really informative
Great video. Thanks.
Love the new intro mate!
Very interesting video, enjoyed the presentation, informative topic.....👍👍👍👍
I hope I'm wrong but I have a feeling that a handful of these laid up aircrafts will encounter some kind of teething problems when they return to the skies which will result in emergency landings.
Hi Mentour Pilot, thankyou for helping me to fill in or at least reduce another of the many gaps I have with regard to my knowledge of the aircraft industry. A very enjoyable video :):):)
I live in California so I visit Seattle ALL THE TIME. I just took a tour of the Boeing Factory (Everett) about 1 year ago. Thanks for this awesome video 👏
Fascinating as always. Thanks.
Hi! Thanks for great quality content!! As a computer scientist I have often thought that voice2voice ATC would introduce a large degree of miscommunication. Why isnt this replaced with digital communication that the pilots just confirm by a push of a button even possibly automatically program the plane with the new heading or altitude? I thought this could be an interesting episode. /Cheers
This video was great and very informative and distinctly elucidated, most distinct in this video was the great confidence mentour pilot has been able to establish as a whole. Jacolyn.
Thank you and keep up the good work!!
That’s a great topic. I like it. Thank you
Another great video presentation!!! Of course, we've come to expect this exceptional quality and you never fail to deliver. QUESTION: What is the overall cost for these "return to flight" procedures? Thanks!
Definitely...good stuff...I really enjoy this and technical side.
Im more worried about pilots that are returning from their long "vacation" and perhaps have forgotten a thing or two. I spent a year in mandatory military service and when i came back to work....it took some time to get back to speed.
UW, what an interesting question. I suspect the answer will be that aircrew have access to simulators which can keep them current.
Most pilots are required to go through a recert on a simulator every few months to keep their type certificate current. When they returns, they have to go back into the sim.
Am Glad you made this episode i was wondering the same thing too
I think Boeing's execs should fly in the 737 Maxs with their entire families on trans Atlantic flights as part of the certification process.
That should be a requirement to the final acceptance of each plane. Seriously.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
@@77l96
Yes but take their families with them if they're really confident.
Eh... engineers make more sense.
@@77l96
To make sure they're not cutting any corners!
The boeing ceo should be glued to the first 737 max like a giant garfield.
Always great videos
Great video Peter :)
I've had lots of experience of insects blocking ports on boats. One time, we couldn't fill the water tanks fully. It turned out the air vent on the second tank was blocked by a spider's web and the air couldn't escape. Similarly, gas heaters which aren't used during the summer won't ignite because spiders spin a web between the electrodes and there is no spark to light the gas. Insects and spiders are very small but can create enormous problems.
Thanks as always!!!
That new intro is lit 🔥 💯
Keep up the good work always watch ur video
G. Warren Hall, retired NASA research pilot and Navy F4 pilot, talked about when he did a delivery flight of a brand new F4B Phantom II from McDonnell in early 1960s. He said it had that new plane smell.
Hello. I work at a FAR 145 repair station that stores commercial aircraft. Aircraft that are in storage are not explicitly considered "out of service" and therefore do not require a "return to service", or RTS, under accepted conditions. The relevant airline (FAR part 121 carrier) is required to designate what's known as a Continued Airworthiness Maintenance Program, or CAMP, that must be submitted to and approved by the FAA, to keep an aircraft "in service" while being stored. For example, the commercial aircrafts that I keep "in service" require things such as monthly, bimonthly, quarterly, and semiannual checks, including monitoring the firex systems and running the APU (auxiliary power unit) and/or engines for a predetermined amount of time at specified intervals, and also physically moving the aircraft to prevent forming flat spots on the tires (as well as monitoring the air pressure of the tires and struts of the landing gear). These aircraft do not require heavy checks or an RTS in order to carry passengers again.
All I can say is I hope you’re right about the preflight prep...
I think I have more faith in a plane just out of storage than one that's been running a lot and is coming up to its regular big maintenance job. I'd have loved to have been on your delivery flight - though you'd have probably needed to refuel as a result 😂
What's so sad, though, is that any number of those very precise checks and changes are done because of an accident report highlighting a hitherto unknown problem. I remember the story of the jammed pitot tube (wasp nest IIRC) which essentially downed a plane in the Caribbean. It's good we learn, it's just sad we have to. That was surely a case of "why tf didn't anyone think of this before!?"
I love your videos Pilot and all the info
Just subbed to RadarBox, nice app, ATC streams are a great bonus too and got it 50% off forever using your code!
thanks for a very interesting video, keep up your good work, best regards to you
Hi Petter from the Isle of Wight, U.K. I remember during the 70's while working for immigration at Heathrow airport. was watching a Pakistan International airways flight preparing to be pushed back from the finger namely a Boeing 707 when I noticed a mechanic sitting astride the number 4 engine hitting the nacelle area where some rectangular openings (reverse thrust outlets?????) with what looked like a rubber mallet. i said to myself never fly with PIA. This is absolutely true and I was not on any medication. Keep up the great vids buudy.
I think Sam has a great video going through the steps in storage
The Intro song is back :)
5:15 Or a bear! 😂
one of the best episodes. thanks.
Hi Mentour. Can you please make a video on how the 737 Max issues are fixed?
Your intro is epic! 🌟
Thank you sir for such video.😊👌
I drove through Roswell, New Mexico back in July, and their airport, which is oversized for such a small city due to its being a former US Air Force base, was crammed with stored airliners. I found out that there were over 300 planes there. I drove by but wasn't really close enough to see what was done to mothball them.
WalkerAFB
Great video as usual, thank you.
What will be additional/extra steps needed for MAXes?
Thank you for the interesting video. 😀
Yesterday Nov 22nd a Beech Bonanza F35 plane reg N5045B which was stored since April had to do an emergency landing on one of our highway roads but no one was injured.
How exciting, I hope to maybe even fly these in another 2 or so years since the 777 has been mostly abandoned and that was my favorite plane.
🙏💜🙏Fascinating! Thank you👍
I was waiting for your video on the ungrounding of the 737 MAX . And yes I'm doing absolutely fantastic 😀🙂
Liked it very much.
Great videos! When is registration number painted on a new aircraft after the FAA has certified its airworthiness?
Very good brief. I am interested about the fix between the computer and jack screw. What is the in service training for the crew dealing with new procedures.
Mr Mentour Pilot, thank you so much for explaining these protocols for getting all of these planes flying again. I figured it would take more than just starting them up again. I just had no idea of what all is neccessary, or how much time they had to get them on line.
Do you know if their are any videos that explain....let's say a cargo airline would want to buy a 747 that's been stored in the desert? What would be Involved mechanically and finance wise, and who pays to make it airworthy for purchase?
Thank you sir.🛩🛫
Imagine how dramatic will be if bees in their nest in aircraft starts flying over in the cabin just after the takeoff :)