Whilst I didn't try out the exact full first two moves (one-handed provoker thrust and small wrist chop) today, I did try out the basic idea of an uncommitted thrust that, when parried, is immediately pulled back with a following wrist chop. That was pretty amusingly effective in sparring, and can only be made more effective by ensuring that my small chop falls along the opponent's weapon to control the opponent's blade, and makes me wonder why I didn't try it out more often before before I acquired my Miaodao feder/sparring sword. It's obviously applicable with my longsword too; a great follow-up for any initiating high thrust that gets parried, and a great anecdote to my main weakness of committing forward and then sorta just getting stuck there and subsequently hit. The wiping type motions I haven't managed to make work as depicted - I currently feel as though they assume the opponent tends to have lowered hands, but the meta at my club tends towards high hands in both attack and defense, so it's hard to 'wipe to their throat'; that being said, I accidentally pulled one off under circumstances I do not understand, so, more experimentation needed to see if I can pull off the wipe against high hands. As with most traditional forms, I suspect that they encode far more information than is commonly depicted - like, we have the rough motions, the intended purpose, but not the specifics of how it's used in every circumstance. I suspect that I should be obtaining an overbind and pressing down the opponent's blade as I cut to their throat if they guard with blade forward and high; simply a small cut-around like with the first action if they defend with blade up and high; and either a cut-around or the equivalent of a duplerin if the opponent parries but has their hands much lower than mine; depending on which side I am on relative to my opponent's body and blade. If the opponent refuses blade contact in any way, then wrong set of techniques to try to use on them. Suppression and raising the opponent's sword - haven't had a good chance to really experiment with that one yet. I have thoughts and it's related to some of the things I've tried in longsword fencing, but what stumps me in that form is - the third cut back down; is it supposed to be back along the same line (or is that cut agnostic in application)? Edit: I reviewed the applications video; I think I see some of the subtleties in the 'stealth one-handed thrust' that I couldn't see more than a year ago and think I have a chance of pulling it off. The suppression and rise again as depicted in the video still doesn't quite make sense to me though; too much of an opportunity for my opponent to double on me/rise and cut my torso/do anything when I leave control just to chamber the next strike. I haven't reviewed in detail the other video on first and second route mechanics; I might have pulled off something from there as well, but I wouldn't be sure. Edit: Tried to do the side parries leading into thrusts from first route; it did not work very well naively as my opponents were freely striking over the weak of my blade. I suspect I need better setup or an explicit attempt to stir/circle parry to guide the opponent's blade to the strong of mine. Also pulled off the second route 'follow the opponent's weapon up and cut his wrists' by sheer accident a long time ago; it exists in the zwerch counterplays of KDF too :D . But the rest has yet to really be tried in the spirit it was presented. 4th route, haven't managed to pull off yet; my footwork is the main thing I know needs work, but also a number of the techniques are close ranged enough that I'd need to either bait my clubmate into closing with me, or else figure out how to pull off far more explosive footwork whilst setting up those circumstances. The other CMA shenanigans I've been trying out today include the fancy cross-step forward and lowered whilst cutting at my opponent (as seen in one of the warlord Dadao videos and the thought to be 'strange' part of the practical Dadao manual by another warlord) - it turns out to be a useful move for renewing an attack on the same side whilst remaining guarded by my sword and coiling up that forward energy for use in retreating if the attack fails to work; I can see how with more practice I can make it work more reliably and with better form. Also messed around with the bury head/enter cave stances from the Dan Dao Fa Xuan manual against polearms - relatively light, casual sparring, but I have a better idea of how it might be made to work now. Mechanically, the main thing I'm 'unsure' of given my own HEMA experience thus far is the insistence in various parts on 'driving with the full strength of the body'. My Miaodao training sword is probably around 1600-1700 grams or so, with a point of balance closer to 10cm, given that it's heavier than my longsword at 1.5kg. Regardless, I don't feel a need to 'drive' the cut with full body strength - wrist strength is sufficient to initiate and provide the vast majority of the speed (and I'm not a strong person at all; my grip strength is on the lower end of adult males or so I'd imagine) and indeed it's desirable as the speed of the wrist is far faster than the rest of the body; what the body needs to do is follow so as to be quick to recover the potential in the wrist (the step forward does not drive the sword; it allows the sword to remain strong in the same position whilst regaining the potential to cut again as the arms are bent there) and to provide 'flavouring' to the cut (ex. wrist initiates, body weight follows through to make it a strong suppressive cut). That said, I don't exactly have pretty form when fencing, and I wouldn't be surprised if there's finer details to it that I just haven't figured out, proprioception-wise. Also, footwork is sort of the number one thing I've noticed that I'm lagging in when it comes to my fencing anyways, so perhaps in six months I'll return with a different perspective on that!
Appreciate for sharing your thoughts and experiences. MiaoDao is a “Chinese” weapon and a long one, with that being said, footwork becomes essential to maneuvering the long and heavy weapon with extra speed and reach. Regarding the 3rd Route, the double wipes. When you see the same move being repeated in a form, it’s saying “hey, this move can/should be used twice at a time.” So if the opponent do a high hand attack and your first left wipe didn’t work, you can immediately step to the right and disconnect the swords and apply the second wipe on the right.
Thanks a lot.I will have to watch it again and take notes. Are you on patreon by any chance ? Is there any chance you get into more detail with the Four Routes ? Your older short video where you demonstraten the routes seem to not catch a lot of the details. Also are there more Single Drills for the Saber ? The Keywords you named are the complete set used in the Silu Miao Dao ?I am sorry for all the questions but its pretty impossible as a non chinese speaker to find good info on the Miao Dao(I like the term chang dao more)..
These are all good questions. Long story short, miaodao silu are fairly short sets of drills. The videos were meant for those who already learned the miaodao silu forms and to add some details. To learn the from from scratch online would not be recommended.
Yes and no, MiaoDao came from the Ming Dynasty invented to fight off the Japanese pirates (Katana). MiaoDao then became a popular double handed weapon in the Northern China. Mostly being passed down under the Pigua and Tongbei style lineages... and since Baji and Pigua are inseparable, MiaoDao also because a commonly practiced weapon amongst Baji practitioners
Whilst I didn't try out the exact full first two moves (one-handed provoker thrust and small wrist chop) today, I did try out the basic idea of an uncommitted thrust that, when parried, is immediately pulled back with a following wrist chop. That was pretty amusingly effective in sparring, and can only be made more effective by ensuring that my small chop falls along the opponent's weapon to control the opponent's blade, and makes me wonder why I didn't try it out more often before before I acquired my Miaodao feder/sparring sword. It's obviously applicable with my longsword too; a great follow-up for any initiating high thrust that gets parried, and a great anecdote to my main weakness of committing forward and then sorta just getting stuck there and subsequently hit.
The wiping type motions I haven't managed to make work as depicted - I currently feel as though they assume the opponent tends to have lowered hands, but the meta at my club tends towards high hands in both attack and defense, so it's hard to 'wipe to their throat'; that being said, I accidentally pulled one off under circumstances I do not understand, so, more experimentation needed to see if I can pull off the wipe against high hands. As with most traditional forms, I suspect that they encode far more information than is commonly depicted - like, we have the rough motions, the intended purpose, but not the specifics of how it's used in every circumstance. I suspect that I should be obtaining an overbind and pressing down the opponent's blade as I cut to their throat if they guard with blade forward and high; simply a small cut-around like with the first action if they defend with blade up and high; and either a cut-around or the equivalent of a duplerin if the opponent parries but has their hands much lower than mine; depending on which side I am on relative to my opponent's body and blade. If the opponent refuses blade contact in any way, then wrong set of techniques to try to use on them.
Suppression and raising the opponent's sword - haven't had a good chance to really experiment with that one yet. I have thoughts and it's related to some of the things I've tried in longsword fencing, but what stumps me in that form is - the third cut back down; is it supposed to be back along the same line (or is that cut agnostic in application)? Edit: I reviewed the applications video; I think I see some of the subtleties in the 'stealth one-handed thrust' that I couldn't see more than a year ago and think I have a chance of pulling it off. The suppression and rise again as depicted in the video still doesn't quite make sense to me though; too much of an opportunity for my opponent to double on me/rise and cut my torso/do anything when I leave control just to chamber the next strike.
I haven't reviewed in detail the other video on first and second route mechanics; I might have pulled off something from there as well, but I wouldn't be sure.
Edit: Tried to do the side parries leading into thrusts from first route; it did not work very well naively as my opponents were freely striking over the weak of my blade. I suspect I need better setup or an explicit attempt to stir/circle parry to guide the opponent's blade to the strong of mine. Also pulled off the second route 'follow the opponent's weapon up and cut his wrists' by sheer accident a long time ago; it exists in the zwerch counterplays of KDF too :D . But the rest has yet to really be tried in the spirit it was presented.
4th route, haven't managed to pull off yet; my footwork is the main thing I know needs work, but also a number of the techniques are close ranged enough that I'd need to either bait my clubmate into closing with me, or else figure out how to pull off far more explosive footwork whilst setting up those circumstances. The other CMA shenanigans I've been trying out today include the fancy cross-step forward and lowered whilst cutting at my opponent (as seen in one of the warlord Dadao videos and the thought to be 'strange' part of the practical Dadao manual by another warlord) - it turns out to be a useful move for renewing an attack on the same side whilst remaining guarded by my sword and coiling up that forward energy for use in retreating if the attack fails to work; I can see how with more practice I can make it work more reliably and with better form. Also messed around with the bury head/enter cave stances from the Dan Dao Fa Xuan manual against polearms - relatively light, casual sparring, but I have a better idea of how it might be made to work now.
Mechanically, the main thing I'm 'unsure' of given my own HEMA experience thus far is the insistence in various parts on 'driving with the full strength of the body'. My Miaodao training sword is probably around 1600-1700 grams or so, with a point of balance closer to 10cm, given that it's heavier than my longsword at 1.5kg. Regardless, I don't feel a need to 'drive' the cut with full body strength - wrist strength is sufficient to initiate and provide the vast majority of the speed (and I'm not a strong person at all; my grip strength is on the lower end of adult males or so I'd imagine) and indeed it's desirable as the speed of the wrist is far faster than the rest of the body; what the body needs to do is follow so as to be quick to recover the potential in the wrist (the step forward does not drive the sword; it allows the sword to remain strong in the same position whilst regaining the potential to cut again as the arms are bent there) and to provide 'flavouring' to the cut (ex. wrist initiates, body weight follows through to make it a strong suppressive cut). That said, I don't exactly have pretty form when fencing, and I wouldn't be surprised if there's finer details to it that I just haven't figured out, proprioception-wise. Also, footwork is sort of the number one thing I've noticed that I'm lagging in when it comes to my fencing anyways, so perhaps in six months I'll return with a different perspective on that!
Appreciate for sharing your thoughts and experiences. MiaoDao is a “Chinese” weapon and a long one, with that being said, footwork becomes essential to maneuvering the long and heavy weapon with extra speed and reach. Regarding the 3rd Route, the double wipes. When you see the same move being repeated in a form, it’s saying “hey, this move can/should be used twice at a time.” So if the opponent do a high hand attack and your first left wipe didn’t work, you can immediately step to the right and disconnect the swords and apply the second wipe on the right.
咦，無意間撞見到苗刀教路，好嘢！能實戰！轉換成短棍棒也可同樣使法，也可實戰！比整天看到的花拳繡棍實用的多。
謝謝你，先生。 太好了
Thanks a lot.I will have to watch it again and take notes. Are you on patreon by any chance ? Is there any chance you get into more detail with the Four Routes ? Your older short video where you demonstraten the routes seem to not catch a lot of the details. Also are there more Single Drills for the Saber ? The Keywords you named are the complete set used in the Silu Miao Dao ?I am sorry for all the questions but its pretty impossible as a non chinese speaker to find good info on the Miao Dao(I like the term chang dao more)..
These are all good questions. Long story short, miaodao silu are fairly short sets of drills. The videos were meant for those who already learned the miaodao silu forms and to add some details. To learn the from from scratch online would not be recommended.
不知道能不能看到老师教学完整的苗刀1-4路，真的很想学习，感谢您的分享。
特意下载了老师的苗刀视频，但是没有完整4路的教学诶，请问老师以后会出视频教程吗？
看完脑壳疼
Awesome. My ancestors were Ming Dynasty military. Where did you get your Miao Dao?
This one I bought from China through eBay.
U can buy online on lkChensword.com, they sell miao dao.
聽到 咻的一聲 這一劍好
酷
苗刀很重要。那么 你可以学习太极拳学得对了。
谢谢!。再见!。
Are these baji chuan sword skills?
Yes and no, MiaoDao came from the Ming Dynasty invented to fight off the Japanese pirates (Katana). MiaoDao then became a popular double handed weapon in the Northern China. Mostly being passed down under the Pigua and Tongbei style lineages... and since Baji and Pigua are inseparable, MiaoDao also because a commonly practiced weapon amongst Baji practitioners