The WW: Lord John Marbury last appearance part 2
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- This is the last appearance that Lord John Marbury makes in the West Wing. I've spilt it up into two parts. I'm running out of ideas for West Wing videos so if you have any suggestions then let me know. Season Episode 14.
Marbury's eccentricities may be natural for him, but he clearly plays them up for his own amusement, and to keep the people he deals with off balance. When it comes to the crunch he's wise, shrewd, and intimidated by no one.
This is why I love Marbury. He is absolutely brilliant and well spoken and deviously skilled at keeping others off balance. I so love the moments when things get real and he drops the eccentricities for a moment of impassioned, yet always respectful, debate.
He's always the smartest person in the room.
That's why President Bartlett trusts Marbury. Abby has a sweet spot for him, too.
I wouldn't be surprised if there were MI6 training in his past...at least to make for a more disarming and eccentric statesman...on who could spy without raising suspicions and if caught could play it off as drunkenness or eccentricity or stupidity.
I don’t understand why Lord Marbury didn’t counter the US position by asking “What if they were right?” What if it had been a US plane full of civilians that they shot down?
What would the US reaction have been and what arguments would there then be for the UK not taking the same action?
If he hadn’t been taken from us when he was, he’d have been an absolutely incredible Doctor for the revival of Doctor Who.
I was hopeful that Sorkin would use him if they were going to cast Mac's father in The Newsroom.
Completely agree!
Roger Rees as The Doctor would cross the line into documentary territory.
Good shout
I think he would also be a good master
I don't know why I ALWAYS laugh when Lord Marbury calls Leo, "Gerald!"
Lord Marbury was one of the best side characters WW invented and, a bit like Lionel Tribbey, was shamefully underused and often patronised. Sir John really was the definition of the iron fist in the velvet glove, and what he didn’t know about diplomacy wasn’t worth writing down. I was always disappointed that his last moment on the show was the president telling *him* what diplomacy was...
Oh he knew what it was, hence the glib joke at the end. It's not like he needed it explained to him - just a simple case of intelligent people with contrary views about a big issue, debating each point of view until a final decision is made. Not everyone can win - and especially not all the time - when it comes to political problems.
It reminds me of Marbury's other appearance where he sat and chatted with Toby. Marbury's job involved repeatedly reaffirming UK's distaste for Sinn Féin getting talks at the White House. He subtly informs Toby that they have no choice BUT to talk to them, yet still reminds him of his own duty to keep saying they shouldn't - even labelling them constantly as terrorists in the process, as that would be expected of who he represents.
He's the ambassador to the US. He only has to be diplomatic with them. Iran is somebody else's job.
Actually its a pretty good explantyon of why and how the US and Britain despite appearances to the contrary, dont always agree. The problem is that since Teheran 1943,the USA has far more power and infuence.
"The President's in the residence, the Iranians are in the Mural, the French are at the gate... and then there's Maude..."
So fucking brilliant.
A disservice to Maude, if I may be so bold.
two words.....Aaron Sorkin
I don't get the reference
@@stephencronin1080 ruclips.net/video/g9NY8R-LmIw/видео.html
@@stephencronin1080 The lyrics to the them to Bea Arthur’s “All in the Family” spinoff “Maude.” I could quote some lyrics but it would be much more fun for you to search Sammy Davis Jr’s version of the tune. The reference here might be Sorkin’s tip of the hat to Norman Lear.
Roger Rees was hilarious as the Lord John the bumbling, drunken oaf, but he was masterful as Lord John the serious, dedicated statesman (this video is a good example, as is "Dead Irish Writers" w/ Toby in the bar. It takes a very talented actor to play both sides so well. RIP sir.
He died?? 😯😯😥
@@moimeself1088 in 2015, yeah
@@BrianLanders 😥😭
Like Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men, his contribution to WW goes far beyond a mere measure of his screen time. A truly magnificent talent, tragically taken much too soon.
From the time, decades ago, when I witnessed his performance in the RSC's production of Nicholas Nickleby, I knew he was a performer who could create wizardry on the stage or before the camera. He's one of those actors you wish would go on and on. He was one of god's magicians.
"And I thought it was drinking and dancing" - Great final line for Lord John
Thanks Roger for bringing such a wonderful character to life. You will be missed.
From "What is the virtue of a proportional response" to this scene
R.I.P. Roger Rees
Thank you for posting this.
I believe in all the West Wing series that Lord John Marbury was the smartest man in the room. Yes, you had Yale and Sam Seaborn and the genius of Toby, but when it came to encapsulating everything and the feel of the world Lord Marbury was the smart one. Nothing to take away from the noble savant of Barlett, but Marbury has a definitive grasp of world politics, and this scene proves that. He is a ladies man, yes, but his intellect as well as charm and logistical thinking shows in the precious few scenes he is in. Any advice from Marbury was always welcome and evaluated considerably. And bless Roger Rees.
There’s a pretty solid argument for Delores Landingham as well, I believe.
@@TheKyleMark I'll give Delores street smarts. Marbury, worldly knowledge.
Marbury is ultimately a more world-wise character, with more actual time overseas, with a greater feel for the nuances of realpolitik. Bartlett is a wonderfully moral President, preferring to believe in being good. I suspect Marbury would be more likely to have a well-worn copy of "The Prince" by Machiavelli on his bookshelves. Masterfully written and acted!
And then there's Maude! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I missed this first five hundred times I watched.
Oh, I was unaware that Roger Rees had died. How sad; what a fine actor. I see that he performed until his brain cancer became too great a burden to continue.
he was splennnnndid
Oof.
Two of my favorite things were A) the President goes to the door to call Mrs. Landingham and they go through that whole thing "why don't you use the intercom?"
"Would you like me to have one of the 4th graders show you how, Mr. President?"
B) Donna finding out she was actually born in Canada. That party is going on, at the end the President walks in-everyone is singing "O Canada" and he says something like "We were part of the United States when I left here."
I can't remember exactly.
The Lord Marburg clips are all real gems.
You can definitely tell his last appearance was not written by Sorkin. He's just not the same character as he was in his first three appearances. The post-Sorkin writers tried, but they really blew it.
"i really can't believe that we still let him in the building" :D
Who, "Lord flibbertigibbet"...???
Sleep well. Thank you. We'll miss you Roger.
...And Kate can stay and entertain Lord Flibbertigibbet..... What a great line in reference to the rakish Lord Marbury.
"Not good!" that was a great reaction. I love Kate.
"Gerald"
And, I for one, thought that diplomacy was just drinking and dancing.
"its been too long"...."oh, i dont think it has"
"And then there's Maude." Love that line.
Dated, though, I wonder who in the below 40 crowd will get it.
Maude........?? You mean "Lord flibbertigibbet"....??? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
@@yahulwagoni4571 I did not understand it when I saw it on TV. Thankfully in the Internet era I could at least Google it!
Lord Marburry's proper title: The Most Honorable 12th Marquess of Needham and Dolby, Earl of Croy, Baronet of Brycey, former Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary to the United States from the Court of St. James's.
Maybe, but if he were the Marquess of Needham he would be "Lord Needham", not "Lord John".
@@brettevill9055 And when addressed as 'Lord Needham', his response was 'call me John'.
When you have all the salad, you don't need to make a big deal out of it. It's a British thing...
At the risk of correcting Aaron Sorkin's writing, the last "ambassador plenipotentiary" that the UK has ever appointed was in 1947 for Lord Louis Mountbatten and he was made Viceroy of India.
Lord John was a wonderful character, and I never understood the snide derision shown to him by most of the White House staff. Yeah, he was crude and sexist and probably an alcoholic, but he was also extremely smart, insightful and very eloquent in discussion and debate. He made many of the West Wing staff look childish and whiny, and that disappoints me.
Marbury was obviously very smart -- too smart not to realize he behaved insufferably. He obviously relished getting under everyone's skin. The West Wing crew also being smart must have realized it was a deliberate act, which made him even more aggravating to them.
He's a two-side-coin. When there's no matters of any direct import he'll coast along looking for his entertainment, be it the ladies, drink, or a running joke of pestering dear old Gerald. When the chips are down, all that is gone - it is business time, albeit the odd break to maintain his affinity for the ladies. It is nice to see that despite his ways, the President neither placates to it nor seems bothered by it, he knows it's just John being John. Even after the off-kilter joke of calling someone a "Gentle Courtesan" they jokingly talk about how charming he is, with only a hint of derision. The first lady has had numerous scenes with Marbury and, while he's made some rather... quirky and borderline offensive flirts about her breasts, she's not bothered by him.
In short, he's the type of guy who you know has 'his thing', but you also know that despite how conflicting (or, for some, barely tolerable) the personality can be, he's sharp as a razor and has your back when it ACTUALLY matters.
His character was very refreshing. Yes, he was aloof and played up the 'stiff upper lip' noble charm of typical TV, but he wasn't treated badly. Some don't take to him, some don't mind him, but they ALL come to respect him for his connections, intelligence and sharpness on actual business matters, even if they don't particularly want him around too long outside of that professional bubble.
In contrast, check his scene with Toby. Toby seems rather taken aback by the extremely blunt and dismissing manner in which Marlbury (in his usual somewhat drunken tone) talks about the Sinn Fein / IRA issue, until he silently / knowingly infers that he's 'not as stupid as he seems', so the two head off for a nice quiet drink and a manly chat about matters and gives Toby some food for thought. Funny, isn't it, that of all the cast Marlbury interacts with, it's the stoic little Toby who in some way 'gets' the eccentric, half-drunken lady-loving posh brit due to clear realization of eachothers dedication to the craft they ply.
@@Mixcoatl As a proud Brit, I'll accept that as a compliment.
He made democrats playing democrats look like democrats
I think that the staff of the west wing were often childish and whiny, and really really condescending.
Thank you for uploading the videos. I can always use more Oliver and Lionel. Brilliant and bombastic
RIP Lord Marbury
He died?
The actor Roger Rees died a couple years ago.
Marbury’s accusations about Iran are odd. It’s odd Sorkin has given Marbury the opinion of most Americans, and Bartlett the opinion of most of America’s allies. The only countries that have remained committed to the JCPOA with Iran are those nearer it than the US. If you think Marbury is being unreasonable, then you think US foreign policy is unreasonable
Marbury was (is) right. Despite a lot of the current problems in that wider area having their roots in Britain's imperial past (and Americas support for the Shah). Iran is a problem that will come back to haunt us.
So glad to see 25 years later that Iran indeed became a peaceful liberal democracy.
I'm a simple man: I hear "GERALD!"
I hit the thumbs up 👍
I like your posts. I was looking for the video where Lord John shares his cold remedy recipes.... all of which end with "and a shot of whiskey". That would be a nice addition.
Turns out Lord Flibbertigibbet had a point.
What a strange character Marbury was. Knowledgeable, brilliant, yet so needlessly irritating to those with whom he had to work.
He's colorful
Sums up the British tbh
the ticking clock in the background is so dramatic and fitting in this scene. I am terrified of what the current denizen of 1600 would do in a similar situation.
He would handle it better than the last one.
Amazing how contemporary this material _still_ is.
And continues to be, ten years after your original comment! 🙂
Politics are circular.
Bartlett goes behind the desk to give the order
The power of the office.
How do I love the West Wing? Let me count the ways.
An idea! Make a video of all the times Lord Marbury calls Leo "Gerald".
Every single one of these performances is a master class.
Regarding the Farsi translator, I recognize the uniform and rank insignia of a US Army major. I think I see the Airborne insignia below his chest candy. What does the braided gold loop signify?
The Korean situation and the Iranian situation incompetence at the highest levels. On the other hand it makes the world a more interesting place.
RIP Roger. Lord Marbury.
This video clip speaks to an incident where Iran shoots down a civilian passenger jet. Apparently not much has changed in 15 years.
You can post anything on the show. You can't go wrong. But if you want ideas...the scene where the Isreali ambassador is talking to Leo about the assination and then his plane is shot down. Or anything from the flashbacks when Josh is shot.
"The President's in the residence, the Iranians are in the Mural, the French are at the gate... and then there's Maude..."
Could someone explain this joke to me, please?
"The french are at the gate" is an old English expression from various comedies. "And then there's Maude..." is a slapstick comedy from the seventies
hilarious!! Love this show!
Susan Wood .
Maude was a spin off show from "All In The Family" in the 1970's. Here's the theme song with the line, "and then there's maude" ruclips.net/video/g9NY8R-LmIw/видео.html
"Lord Flippertygibbet' 😂😂😂
“Sweet lord in heaven!”
"Oh, I don't think it has." Bahahahahahha
Loved when he was on west wing. should av been on more
Regarding suggestions for videos, how about Bernard, the snobbish WH staffer? He was absolutely delicious.
"C.J., you are a freakishly tall woman"
@@samconner2011 Each and every one of his lines was priceless. Paxton Whitehead had to have a lot of fun delivering them.
@@samconner2011 This is one of the thousand reasons I love Aaron Sorkin: "It was on loan from the Musee d'Orsay to the National Gallery. The President, on a visit to the National Gallery, and possessing even less taste in fine art than you have in accessories, announced that he liked the painting. The French government offered it as a gift to the White House, I suppose in retribution for EuroDisney. So here it hangs, like a gym sock on a shower rod."
@@miguelencanarias That was a fantastic line...!
Good to see a Western power who sees Iran and its nuclear threat like it is, says so and isn't afraid to take action... even if it is in fiction.
I can't remember at the moment. I remember he always called Leo the wrong name. And carried on about Abby Bartlett's breasts. He was so funny.
Except-I believe-when Marbury was made Ambassador and the discussion turned to missile shields...
Gerald
is that lord marbury keep calling him gerald? lol
I wasn't too clear on that,I guess. I didn't mean it was in this video. TheRyman25 asked for suggestions of other things she could make video clips of to put up. Those were 2 suggestions I had.
I also like Sam in the debate with...somebody whether to get rid of pennies or not. That episode is WAR CRIMES. I loved a lot in that episode. Leo with his commander in Vietnam, played brilliantly, by Gerald McRaney.
Can you post the Francis Scott Key key scene from Season 4 Episode 18 (I think)?
Look up "Marion Coatsworth Hay".
Drinking and "dancing" ... LOL!
When television would actually present it posdible potential...
Good video quality, but it's a shame the audio is devoid of any volume.
I love how in reality, the hypocrisy of leading Western Nations are even more blatant than this scene.
Regardless, the performances of these actors are phenomenal.
I am looking for the scenes where Toby and Sam go to free Justice Mendoza from jail. Celestial Navigation season 1
John isn't wrong. Buuuut this isn't the moment. Great show.
It was very dark outside for 5pm
The clip that would round out this clip would be the one where the Iranian moderate is deposed and replaced with a hardliner., confirming what Lord Marbury predicted.
And then theres Maude. haha great line
Quite ~ ~ subbed.
Season 6? Maybe it's the post-Sorkin decline in writing, but Marbury's hawkish position rings false for the UK post-1956 and is out of character for him (one of his most memorable earlier interventions had been advising the US to pay to avoid an Indo-Pakistan war as the price for being the top power in a peaceful world). Israel would have been a more plausible substitute for the UK in this story line.
Forgotten Thatcher already? Positing a PM like her would make this quite believable. Marbury would reflect the desire of his government.
@@johnargus9081 I'm no fan of Mrs Thatcher, but reading her autobiography, it was clear she was a lot of more thoughtful and subtle in matters of war and statecraft (e.g. over the Falklands War) than her "iron lady" public persona might lead one to believe. But more to the point, Marbury is supposed to be smart and sophisticated. Him disregarding the news that the Iranians had not intended to down a jet liner is just dumb. He might ultimately have to reflect the desire of his government, but his first duty would be to inform it of the news and, given his supposed character, give appropriate counsel. Fundamentally, I'm not persuaded bombing Iran to delay its nuclear programme is smart, but it only seems a realistic option for the US and Israel - I don't think the UK has the capability.
@@theodisius1 Ohh you are dead wrong, we do indeed have the capability to strike Iran, and we did back then too...
@@dougle03 After Suez, after the failed US attempt to bomb Gadhafi from UK bases and after the hunt for non-existent Iraqi WMDs, I am sceptical the UK could delay Iran's nuclear weapons programme through precision bombing. Regardless, my suspicion is that the genie is out of the bottle and nuclear weapons are ultimately available to governments willing to pay the not inconsiderable cost for them. A delay would achieve little in the end, except likely spur retaliation. Maybe you are right about the capability but I doubt it would on the agenda for a UK response to a terror attack. I would be very surprised if there is a contingency plan for such an act. We did not even bomb the Argentine mainland during the Falklands war.
Leo's "sweet Lord in Heaven."
i didnt see anything of this in this video
would love to see the scene where Bartlett threatens to draft the truckers
What episode was this? Was Sorkin doing a mirror image of the USS Vincennes shooting down Iranian Airlines 655? The US Navy said they thought it was a military jet, and blew 290 people out of the air.
Not sure but I think it was close to the Series Finale. Bartlet apparently makes a wise move in not getting involved in conflict with Iran as he's forced to get the USA involved in a conflict between China and Russia in Kazakhstan over deposits (and thus prevent China and Russia from fighting each other over oil).
No the Russians shooting down the Korean air flight, was what this was a take off on.
Sorkin left after season 4
I remember that.... Private Eye had the Vincennes on the front cover with the caption :
"Is it a bird....? Is it a plane...? What the hell, shoot it down anyway."
Very nice...
Great character, USA'ed RIP
Don't you just love the good old days when the President of the U.S.A intelligently took advice from his betters?
John isn't wrong about Iran
If Iran had a nuke, it might be able to prevent the Empire's constant attacks--OH NO!
It's been too long.....I don't think it has....
Wow...writers screwed up! In previous episode he states he went to Cambridge and the Sorbonne. New writers have him having gone to Oxford! Like mixing up Harvard and Yale! Miss Aaron Sorkin’s writing!
Yes, but "Lord John" has always spouted gibberish about his background. The nonsense he comes out with about his titles is absolutely cringeworthy. Some of it is German. Did nobody in the writer's room take half an hour to look up what British styles and titles are like?
They made those kinds of mistakes a lot. Didn't count on DVD box sets and internet replays... and wildly committed fans who remember details to a scary extent. My pet peeve is how Zoe was introduced as 19 going to Georgetown, then for the MS drama she was 17 and needed parental signatures for her college forms. But, hey ho. 🤷🏾♀️
@@moimeself1088 One usually puts in initial applications for college before one's final year, as it is a lengthy process. Dependent upon when in the year her birthday is, it is possible both could be true.
The Butler?
You sow what you seed
....and history proves diplomacy with terrorist supporting dictators is nothing more than appeasement - and universally results in death & tragedy
In reality the roles would have been reversed
*Did no one leave a note?!*
And then there's Maude. 😆
I laugh when I hear this.
i didnt see any of this in this video
Lord John was so off here. He was always the smartest man in the room with more experience than anyone in the room, which would make him the wisest, but here he just jumps to way out on the conclusions mat like chicken little. I think it was just the writing going downhill this late in the show.
A good move on Bartlet's part considering bombing Iran would probably have caused a large-scale conflict in the Middle-East that may have involved Russia and China and towards the end of Bartlet's presidency Kazakhstan requires massive USA military intervention to prevent an all out conflict between Russia and China over oil deposits.
Can't even imagine how this president we have now could even fathom what to do in situations like this
Strike and a miss!
A rather one dimensional take on Iran with Americans and Brits acting like history started yesterday.
Say what you want about Ayatollahs but they are case of “Fuck around and find out”
Only within limits. The sandpit, and it's backwards tyrants are only just tolerated because of oil. Once the western world weens itself off of it, we'll see just how irrelevant the shithole in the middle east really is...
TV Show Logic...The Ayatollah cares about Possible Embarrassing Publicity?...In TV Land why not 👍
Wow, the whole "moderates" in Iran argument has aged so terribly and really even without hindsight, Marbury's arguments are more sound. A decade plus of generous deals and sanction lessening and what do we get? More terror in the MidEast and a military-industrial crutch for Russia.
Not saying that full-scale invasion was the way to go (it isn't, Iran is way too hard to invade), but simply that a solution built on a clear misapprehension of how the Iranian government works was never the way to go.
For a "moderate" to take power they would need approval from the Gaurdian Council to run in elections, a group of Shia clerics who answer to the Ayatollah. It is and always has been a theocracy. We've just given them and the DPRK time to improve their nuclear programs.
Here's my take on the issue;
Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait (where I'm from), Qatar, the UAE, Oman, and Bahrain; these form the majority of the Middle East and the Arabian peninsula, and they sit on a gigantic petroleum pool; if any of those countries was to have a nuclear weapon, then they will stop being pushed around by foreign governments.
And if they stop being pushed around by foreign governments, then they can sell all their petroleum using their own currencies instead of the US Dollar, which will likely lead to the collapse of US economy.
Just a thought.
Some people might think "what does hat have to do with anything ?"
Here it is: propaganda. Any country in the Middle East having a nuclear weapon (other than the Zionist state) is unacceptable, and so any country wanting this technology is portrayed as a rogue nation.
The thing is, a lot of people are worried that if a country in the Middle East develops Nuclear Weapons, one of those weapons will end up in the hands of a extremist group like Al-Nusra or ISIS and then all the bets are off the table.
So far as we know there's only two Nuclear powers in the Middle East: Israel and Saudi-Arabia.
@Ulysses432 Israel has it's own nukes, they can protect themselves against Iran just fine.
Except without sales to America and the rest of the west, that oil is useless...
The AMERICANS shot down an Iranian comme4cial air flight
I loved and still love this show. But the irony of the US and Britain talking about the body counts of an accidental shooting when they have 4 centuries of war, colonisation and the blood of literally 100's of thousands of people in their history is as glorious as the writing in this show.
The responsibility of a leader is to protect the people they lead, not to hew to the principle of fairness and balance. In the context of protecting those they're responsible for, past misdeeds by their own nation are irrelevant.
Both nothing compared to the regimes of nazi Germany, China under Mao and Russia under stalin
This scene is actually humiliating in retrospect. Iran has blown up a total of 0 American/British airliners. In contrast, the US has blown up a total of 1 with Iran Air Flight 655, killing 290 people because the US naval vessel mistook a passenger plane for a military craft. How you can feel justified writing a story like this, lecturing Iran as the no-good rogue state blithely pursuing nuclear weapons to blow up DC or London, is beyond me. It's irresponsible and even somewhat racist. As the Iranians say, Marg bar Āmrikā.
It's a work of fiction... There is a difference between fiction and real life.. The Koran for example, is pure fiction written by powerful men, but soooo many people believe it's real life...
Once more Bartlett shows what a waste-of-oxygen appeaser he is.