Funny story: Alex was literally the person to call me out for playing an extra land once in a match against Jamie Parke (it was like turn 16 and it didn't matter, thankfully). The entire room laughed at the irony of HIM being the one to notice, and even the judge has a good time with it. But hooboy, he's the last person I wanted that call to ever come from.
In large tourneys decklist typically have to be registered ahead of time if I'm not mistaken. So in that case officials and commentators could have actually knows his list...
It’s not even really slight of hand he played the lands on turn three played an explore then tried to play a land then immediately ends I was expecting the opponent to be distracted or him to play two lands on top of each other something a stage magician might do, not him lying and his opponent being too stupid to follow his opponent’s actions. How either of these idiots got on a feature match is beyond me.
He's one of those players that says it's the opponent's responsibility to make sure he isn't cheating. He'll do whatever he thinks he can get away with and hope you don't call him on it, then double down when he's caught to get the accuser to back down out of some misplaced "courtesy."
My opinion - Well if it is the opponent's responsibility to make sure you aren't cheating than when I say you cheated you can't dispute it and you must concede without arguing. Meaning I will win every time by turn 2 thanks cheaters for making me the best Magic player.
What....what does this comment mean? Does anyone have a _non-zero tolerance_ for cheating?! I think anyone who is cool with cheating _might_ be cheating themselves 0_o
I did manage to amplify the picture of the guy that is supposed to draw the 4 cards off from the the brainstorm. I set the colors black and white and I inverted the texture and I can confirm he drew 4 cards. Bending the cards gives you the perception they are only three but he moved his fingers in such a way so from the spectator and the opponent's point of view can't be seen. Also, those sleeves are reflecting the light itself which makes it more difficult to see the cheat plan. We are dealing with an illusion pro right there, folks.
At my games, we have a table rule, when you draw, you draw one at a time, from the deck, and while you dont have to reveal, you do need to set them down, so everyone can count them. We used to have a chronic cheater, and until we found someone to take his spot (we did games in groups of 4, or 2, and without him, we only had 5) we chose to just mitigate his cheaty bastard tactics. He was also fond of things like, slipping cards from his graveyard, into the bottom of the deck, if you werent paying attention, leading to the now defunct table rule of your graveyard being on the opposite side of your field, from your deck. Oh, and he was a card thief, so we had to keep our books, boxes, and bulk crates of card in a locked room or footlocker. claiming you didnt steal someone's mythic foil, and then using that exact foil in the next game session, including the same damage to the same corner...not smart.
@@dreamwolf7302 The fact that you put up with someone like that so that someone wouldn’t be left out is a testament to your group’s patience, but good lord next time just do multiplayer matches lol.
@@RanOutOfSpac at the time, we ran tournament style, either a 4 way match, or a series of 1v1 matches. We were trying to get into the habits we needed for running tournaments, and participating in them. Honestly, we saw it as good practice for dealing with cheaters, as well as spotting them.
I was one of the commentators in the booth for the Kira game (alongside Gavin Verhey; we were the official commentators but Patrick Chapin and Brian Kibler joined us). The cheat is really easy to miss. Gavin almost catches onto the situation ("is that the third Kira? He only has two, right?") but having extra people in the booth was kind of distracting-which is part of why SCG hasn't allowed it since like 2012, probably even earlier. This event was in January 2011, the very early days of SCG Live (the previous name of the SCG Tour). Even still, commentators can't hear the players, so any sort of verbal communication between players has to be assumed based on what is seen, *without* the option of rewinding to look at something more closely, or physically checking a graveyard. So if you miss the split-second moment when Kira goes back to hand, the Kira in the graveyard appears to be the second Kira, and nothing seems to be wrong with the game state.
Alex Bertoncheati 😂 The brainstorm cheat is so common, unfortunately. Draw 4 or put only 1 back, put none back. Seen em all 🙄 In my legacy days, I always asked how many cards were in hand before they brainstorm.
@@JoeyjojoShabadoo7 watching the video showed at least Vidianto did it the way you mentioned, he took one card at a time 3 times, unlike Alex that just grabbed a handful and went "yeah this seems right"
@@JoeyjojoShabadoo7 that's exactly how it should be. All draws should be done one at a time. I'm a little more lenient on putting cards back or discarding, but you should fan out the cards so your opponent can see how many, then stack them and put them where they go. If there's any question, ask them to count the cards being moved for you.
Alex's body language is screaming he's cheating. He does the cheat part with confidence but then has an obvious internal breakdown immediately after. If you play against him just stare him down constantly, he'll get so nervous he won't handle it
I don't think he has an issue with the cheating. I think the fidgeting and other "tells" or from his pathological need to win the game. The anxiety from that is what causes him to start bugging out. His cheating is very smooth and I don't think he has any guilt about cheating at all especially when you look at his comments about his behavior. Plus, look at the sly eye contact he makes in this video. He does that after cheating when his nerves start to calm because he can see his path to victory if his cheat continues unchallenged.
I honestly think that the spectator of the first clip you’ve shown was still convinced that he was cheating. Since Alex’s opponent sadly told the spectator that Alex was fine, the spectator didn’t have anything else to say since he can get removed from interfering with the match. (Or atleast that’s how I remember it.)
I don't play magic but other tcg's and the rule a lot of the times is that judges don't take third parties story into account. So it really wouldn't have mattered what he thought? I don't know if it's the same in magic though.
Interfering with a match is a no-no, however a spectator is well within their rights to report suspicion of foul play to a judge who will then monitor a match to determine whether not someone who is suspected of cheating is actually cheating. If the judge finds that the suspected cheater is in fact making rules violations in their favor, an investigation will be launched. The downside to this is there's a ton of players and only so many judges, which can stretch resources by a lot. It's been a few years since I've played competitive Magic, so some things may have changed, but that was always the concept when I played.
L2 judge here. When spectators expect a mistake has happened, they should ask the players to stop, call a judge, then explain the situation to the judge away from the table. Most people don’t have that confidence, but at the very least, don’t confront the players during the match about what is wrong. Get a judge, either by telling the players to pause or just leaving the match to find one (for obvious reasons, depending on the circumstances, pause the players)
When I okayed competitively (over ten years now) new rules came into effect that meant If there was a game violation a spectator could call halt the game and call a judge. Assume this wasn’t in place during the first clip but with video evidence I reckon the guy filming it would have be justified in doing this.
I actually hate it when players do things like brainstorming by taking "three" cards in one single hand motion and putting "two" cards back likewise in one single hand motion. Well, congrats on your awesome hand dexterity skills, but could you please allow me to clearly see that you are _actually_ drawing exactly three cards, and _actually_ putting exactly two cards back? I don't care how many years you have practiced the smooth motion to draw exactly three cards in one single sweeping motion. I want to see that you are not trying to cheat.
100%. I deliberately put my deck down and to the side, take the cards separately and either add to my hand if drawing them from there, or do what I need and replace. Anything more than 2 gets dealt onto the table first then picked up from there.
You're absolutely right. I would sometimes cheat with my friends, just for fun, by grabbing two cards at a time instead of one during my draw. I could do it in one motion, very, very slyly. It was ridiculously easy.
Magic needs to bring back some old school poker rules. You have to be very clear and precise with your card movements. If you don't, you get taken out back and shown a thing or too. Obviously I don't condone violence, but these tricks need to stop. Draw cards one at a time adding each to you hand or a new pile in front of you separately. Failure to do so could result in a forfeit of the match. It's way too easy to manipulate cards.
I want to say that you're only allowed to draw one card at a time in the comprehensive rules, but this was years ago that I may have heard this so I'm not sure. Probably in there for this reason specifically because it's such an easy way to cheat.
Man this guy definitely deserved a lifetime ban. He cheats even when it's likely he'll be caught, he cheats after getting caught, he cheats when there's no reason to do so, he cheats several times each game, and he cheats in a dozen different ways. Most importantly, even after getting banned twice, Alex didn't change his behavior. Most people will change their behavior when they've been caught and called out for it. But not Alex. It's almost like actually winning the match is secondary, and what he _really_ enjoys is deceiving people, getting over on them. He's just on another level.
As someone who lost to Alex in a top 8 of a qualifier I bet he drew 4 there. Maybe it's salt but also was alot of stress trying to watch him for cheating instead of just playing the game
I can empathize with this sentiment. How shitty would it be if you were all excited about a tournament and you instead had to laser focused on some douche to make sure he wasn't cheating instead of living the moment
@@michellecrist8399 I meeeeaaan who cares what the other comments say? The whole thread could be siding with Alex and that would matter to you? Could you be a little more insecure in your own convictions?
What's fun is Alex showing up at your local game store when his DCI suspension ended and you get paired against him knowing who he is. Never spent more time watching an opponent's hands and card manipulations.
I would have refused to play against him. Store owner knows who he is and what his deal is, then im sure they would understand. Once a cheater always a cheater and they should have that follow them
@@killroy458 I'd have to refuse too. I have know my own temperament well enough to know if I caught him cheating things wouldn't end well for him or myself. At best I would expand his vocabulary politely and at the worst I would be asking him to step outside not so politely. Lol.
@@killroy458 if your opponent is not DCI suspended anymore though, you would forfeit the match with that though. Even FNM is DCI regulated, and refusing to play your opponent counts as an immediate concede, same as not showing up. 'He's a shitty person' is, sadly, no valid rule violation. So until he is caught again and suspended/banned for repeated infractions, there is little you can do, and least of all take a lose for petty principles. Til the rule change at least. Praise the stormcrow :D
He totally drew 4. I could see the 4th card as he took it off the deck. It then disapears behind the 3rd as he puts the cards on the table. So I think that we do see 4 cards then as well. But he still may well have used the sleeve so he'd have that built in deniability. Like you said when he looked at the bottom card of his deck. This guy will take any advantage he can get. Alex obviously has put time and thought into his cheating. If he would have just put as much time into practicing his play and deck building as he did into cheating, he shouldn't have had to cheat to win iconically enough. But clearly he had much more faith in his skills as a cheater than a magic player. I'm glad Wizards banned him for life. He was making a mockery of the game and the people who play it with sportsmanship.
@@RajaniIsa I'm actually fairly sure it's 3. I thought "Definitely 4" at first, but looking at the slow motion, I'm actually more convinced that it's a sleeve getting bunched up. I would've sworn 4 when I first saw it, but looking at it over and over, I'm more inclined to say 3.
I just got into MtG this year and I am so glad it has a community fully of laid back and humble people that just wanna play and have fun. People like this are a TINY minority which makes it more fun and easy for newcomers.
I NEVER trust a player that fidgets with their hand that much. He's shady right off the drop. Glad the cheater is being outed, people like this are a big stinky fart on the game.
On my days playing mtg physical format, when my oponent was taking too long to think i would start shuffling my hand or just continuosly changing the order of the cards, was just bored and it was my way of not just screaming to their face that they were on turn 1 with a tapped freaking land so they had not that many options xD
@@icebergslim1872 Guessing at what though? Nobody knows whats in your hand in the first place. Fidget players just give me bad vibes. I've had more fidget players try card tricks/sleight of hand on me than any other type of player. All that extra movement gives a person a lot of room too screw around.
@@ErokLobotomist at what card is where in my hand is all, plus it just rolls smoothly. Idk. I've had more cheaters try to cheat with me so i can't relate to your experience I suppose
I get called a rule lawyer a lot, but guys like Alex are why I'm like that. In my experience for every 5 or 6 mtg players there's at least one Alex. It's been years since I've played competitively, but when I did last play, colored-backed sleeves were generally banned and only clear sleeves allowed, exactly because of this kind of thing as well as marking.
Just getting into MTG. I'm a fan of real life close up magic. After seeing how busy the back of some cards sleeves are. There's no way those aren't marked. Like even with clear sleeve or solid one color you could still mark them. But it's significantly easier, any moron could mark the backs of those busy cards and you wouldn't be able to spot the difference without staring at each card side to side.
Had somebody in my old EDH playgroup that thrived on “not knowing” the rules or not knowing what his cards did. He would counter enchantments with Flusterstorm, he would try to gilded drake steal hexproof creatures. He would sacrifice an artifact with 4cmc Daretti as a cost for his minus, thus letting him trigger an ugin’s nexus even if the minus ability was countered by stifle or scooze. I think some of these were genuine cases of wishful thinking and not knowing the rules, but only some of them.
Here's my pro-tip for when we return to paper magic. When it isn't your turn, set your hand down and just look at your opponent. You know what's in your hand, watch for cheating during your opponents turn. If you love playing decks with free wins, just wait until you get free wins for catching multiple lands drops
On top of this if you have any doubts of their shuffling or their card drawing, Tell them to slow down in the case of card draw (or any action really) and call a judge to watch them if you need to.
I always take note of the number of lands and cards in hand/graveyard. Too many sleight of hand tricks. Caught 2 people putting killed creatures back into their hand, thinking their sleight of hand was good enough. Judges like logic, thankfully.
I do this anyway. But it's more of an intimidation tactic. My memory of cards is... unusually good. I know what's in my hand. I can often figure out what my opponent has through context clues.
If you look closely at 10:09 and count all the noticeable edges that a single card could give off, it starts to look more like 4 cards. Which would also be consistent when he first fans them out on the table where it also looks like there are 4 cards present, which you pointed out.
Lost in the Legacy-format finals of a GP side event to Alex Bertoncini at GP Minneapolis just one month before his permanent banning, on a dubious piece of "bad luck." Only found out a few days later who he was. Cheaters don't stop cheating when the stakes are low. Having folks like this in the community taints the whole MTG experience.
This guy Alex must have played thousands of games. No matter what video I see him mentioned in, I always get to read a new story about him cheating somebody else.
Just remember folks, if you're spectating and see something untoward happening.... CALL A JUDGE Not blaming the guy doing the video in the first one, but he should have stopped the game and called a judge right away. Might have just been a warning, but they add up. Calling a judge is NEVER a bad thing, both as a player AND a spectator
Man, reminds me of people who put monsters facedown in spell/trap zones in Yugioh (for anyone who doesn't know, one archetype is essentially Hellbent with combo potential). Definitely a four card draw though. Always be suspicious when people don't obviously count individual draws.
I'll never forget the prowess player who accidentally scry'd when drawing, looks at me, waiting for a reaponse, and I let it slide and still beat him fairly! Haha
Accidents happen. If a guy admits it, and I'd count that response as admitting it, then it's not always worth calling a ref or making him forfeit. I hate winning on technicalities like that when it's clearly an accident. We've all been there and the best thing to do is try not to let it influence the game.
What I always hate most about these cheaters in these videos is as a relatively noobish player if any of these guys assert enough I'm just gonna assume I misunderstood. When I was a kid teenagers would notoriously bully in yugioh to same effect so you wouldn't quesiton what they did. It's bullying at it's finest which for a game like magic that's supposed to even playing field is flat out cruel.
One of the simpler solutions to curb some of the cheating is to make sure all players zones are in the same area at all times. For instance In this video Alex has his graveyard above his library when most players place it below the library. It allows him to also be able to confuse opponents into thinking that the card in the library is in play because of how close it is to the battlefield zone.
The funny thing is, the guy didn't even accuse him of playing a second land. All he said was "What turn is it?" And the cheater, immediately aware that he was under the microscope for cheating, answers "two explores" to justify an accusation that was never made. He is guilty as they come. He actually sucks at manipulation and deception. He is nervous as fuck in all these videos. He constantly fidgets, plays with cards, looks around. He's as guilty looking as they come and his response to "What turn is it?" is a dead give away of guilt. He's basically saying out loud "I CHEATED." It only works because many magic players are either A: too in the tank to notice and not paying attention to their opponent (this is bad play, but in no way justifies cheating) or B: A lot of MtG players are extremely shy, introverted, nonconfrontational people. These are the types of people that are extremely easy to manipulate because they dislike confrontation and conflict that much. Sometimes they may even know they are being had, but the social stress of having to openly disagree and then confront someone about issue, potentially call over a judge and have a whole scene is too much. As for the scrying thing he did, I would have called judge. He basically puts the scryed cards into his hand with the other cards before putting them back/bottoming them. It's basically impossible for the opponent to verify he was bottoming the scryed cards and not different cards from his hand, and picking up his deck and looking at the bottom is also blatant cheating. Cheating is rampant in this card game, if Wizard's won't implement strict gameplay conduct/standards as rules (i.e. you may never hold both your hand and cards currently scryed/played at the same time. A deck never fully leaves the table unless it is being shuffled, etc), then players must police each other. It's sad that's it like this, but if they implemented some draconian rules with even harsher enforcement for a few years, they could purge a lot of cheaters from the community and then relax those kinds of standards slightly over time.
@@LC-wv7tz While the answer of 2 explores looks bad, if I'd been asked that question with the legal, 5 lands in play on turn 3, I might have answered the same thing. I know the spectator is wondering about the number of lands in play so early in the game and 2 explores would explain the situation.
@@jaywinner328 but if you played legally, and you wouldn’t know why the turn clock was being asked. It wouldn’t be on the forefront of your mind for someone to ask what turn it was. If you’re just playing the game normally you wouldn’t really know if something is out of place for them to be inquiring about. Me I’d have called a judge immediately after he said “two explores” because that would tell me it’s intentional. Forgetting whether you’ve made a land drop happens, so the catching the extra land drop in a deck that drops a bunch of lands is easy to miss. But the moment he tried to defend it, I’d have called a judge and showed them the recording. I’ve caught my opponents misresolving triggers or other things that were genuine mistakes. That’s what makes it easy to know this one was on purpose
@@jordanharrison8769 Nothing wrong with calling a judge in such a situation. But if I'd ramped out that fast and some casual onlooker asked the turn, I'd know exactly why. The board has nothing else to even consider.
The competitive games need to have very clear rules to prevent cheating. Like showing your opponent the exact amount of cards you are discarding and drawing.
I was a cheater for years, it was like an addiction really. It wasn't about winning, not quite, either. It was about always having the answer if there was one in my deck. Not to come off as a good player, but just not as a BAD one. The irony being that it made me a very bad player, because I never had to build my deck right or decide between lines any game I could get away with cheating. It was getting caught and chewed out for it that made me stop, despite sitting in self-loathing and telling myself I would quit for years. Changing takes facing consequences, whether self-initiated or externally enforced. All I'll say is that cheating is surprisingly easy to get away with for a long time. I was no magician, like Alex. Cheating is, above everything else, a confidence game. Cheaters get away with it because their opponents trust them. The darkest part about that is that the people most easily cheated, and harmed, were the friends who trusted me the most.
Regarding the Kira one specifically, if it was an isolated incident, I *might* have thought it was an honest mistake. Even if he had just done the same thing with a previous Kira, mistakes do happen, people slip up. Once I caught the mistake, I'd have figured out a solution (since Kira being bounced properly changed how the rest of the turn would have gone). Again, *if* it was an *isolated* incident. Obviously with a known cheater, its different.
It’s rampant in any game with high competition. That said, one high ranking judge once did an AMA and when asked what the worst part of the job was, she said (paraphrasing here): “seeing how often people tried to get away with stuff. Not necessarily cheating but doing all they could just short of cheating.”
@@tgholness If you weren't cheating at your local tournament in yu gi oh you weren't likely to climb. The odds for some powerful opening hands in yugioh are less then 3% yet I would see them in every ladder match, no one was ever sus... We perfected slight of hand tricks, cheat shuffling the art of suggestions and all sorts of David Blain inspired tricks to help secure those tournament booster packs. Just for context I was young, very poor, living in a ghetto. TCG's in my childhood was a living, not just a game for kids. I would buy groceries for my family when I was just 12 off my yugioh winnings twice a month, so needless to say the stakes were high. I eventually retired out of guilt and gave away all of my cards.
@@lakingpaul Well if you believe they would cheat to help their paper pros get bomb sealed pools and gravy pairings, why wouldn't they cheat to help their digital pros?
Players like this are why I rarely play at that level anymore (and I say this as someone who’s been in the pro tour and other high level events and performed very well). I started to notice what I call micro-cheats on a lot of the games toward the finals. I think you called it cheating on the edges, here. It’s just so sickening to lose out of events because you have morals. Even those tiny 1-2% advantages can add up across a long day. So anyway, 10-15 years ago, I was seeing it everywhere and it just made me sick. I’ve been playing only online and casual EDH ever since. These people really ruin the game for everyone. As for the brainstorm, that’s totally 4 cards. I’ve seen others do this cheat against me. Two of the cards are held together to look like one. It seems he got sloppy and they slipped out of alignment as he adds them to his hand. And yeah, those cheap sleeves are totally a micro-cheat, since he can slip like this and blame the sleeves.
I noticed the jump in micro-cheating at the same time. Actually left the game for 12 years before coming back recently. I still avoid FNM events and most things organized by WOTC. If you're not playing against an OP Net-Decker, you're up against a micro-cheater. To tiring to bother with. Arena was really cool at first because it auto-enforced the rules. Anybody who fiddles with their hand that much and twitches around in general can't be trusted in my eyes.
@@ErokLobotomist so like, I absolutely agree that micro cheats suck, but I gotta say that there is absolutely nothing wrong with netdecking. and a lot of people (myself included) can't help the constant hand shuffling and nervous ticks, it's just part of how I ease my anxiety of playing, and on a secondary note, hand shuffling is vital to high level play, if someone rips a card and they know what you have in hand if you dont shuffle they can track what cards are being played and which are not
@@cyclone8411 Shuffling your hand can be VERY annoying for your opponent, and distract them from their plays. That's what happens to me, anyways. Shuffling your hand here and there is okay, but when people go overboard and do it quickly and constantly, it really irritates me.
@@TehSeksyManz I mean, sure you're allowed to feel that way, and I hate that it can be distracting to you and I'm sure some people probably do it with the intent of distracting the opponent. In my case specifically, and several people I know for that matter, shuffling my hand isn't a choice, it's a form of stimming that eases anxiety and allows for clear thought. I'm personally of the opinion that you shouldn't let your opponent distract you, whether with habits they have or with conversation, or whatever else. Now of course I understand that it isn't as simple as "just don't get distracted" but you see where I'm coming from hopfully. sorry this is probably pretty rambly, I have a communication disorder so organizing my thoughts isn't all that easy for me
@@cyclone8411 MTG is like music to me. Sure you can get by just fine being a cover band, but that's all you'll ever be unless you make your own music. All the power to net-deckers, I just have no respect for it, it takes no effort or skill to play someone else's game in my opinion. It's like playing on auto-pilot. High level play and all anxiety aside, I've always found I've had to keep a closer eye on players that fidget and adjust their hand constantly. Those players also tend to constantly touch their decks, which I also have a personal thing about. It's always easier to pulla slight of hand if your hands are already always moving and the opponent has to watch you. Not accusing you of anything or ripping on anyone, just presenting my side of the coin.
This is interesting show of how most people are non confrontational. They knew he played an extra land. They explained it, but Alex stuck to it and no one wanted to make a scene.
Watching mtg "Pros" play is so aggrevating. They can never play the game like normal people. Its like their turns go in order of 1.draw card, 2. wipe card on table. 3 shuffle hand, 4 shuffle hand again 5. Add new card into hand, 6 shuffle hand 7.pretend to put hand onto table then immediately shuffle hand again 8. cheat 9 shuffle hand again 10. play first card onto table bending it in half as they do so.
Last time they caught me cheating was because a toughseize revealed 5 Lightning Bolts in my opening hand. Could have been worse do.... I run usually 12.
I once had a guy try to get me disqualified because I said I was going to activate a creature ability when he had priority. Along the lines of "Once you attack I'm going to activate this" and he immediately stood up and called the judge to get me removed, lol. The local hot shot really showed his colors when he was losing.
He drew 4. That is not a wrinkle. That is the 4th card. If the sleeves are "Dragon Sleeves". They don't bend/wrinkle like that. Even if they weren't. They still would not bend/wrinkle like that.
I absolutely believe he drew 4. He flips through it all so fast, and given his history it's super plausible. As you said, it's difficult to prove it, but I still believe he drew 4. Dude brazenly put graveyard into his hand.
Check out Shin Lim, a Magician who is amazing at it. This cheater could be a good magician. I don't understand why he would use the time, skills, and practice to cheat at a game instead.
@@RandomPerson-nd2ey I don't understand why he wouldn't bother learning blinds. Do some reverse laser shit on the top of the deck and even cameras can't catch it.
Had the uhh pleasure... of playing against this dude a while back. It was an RPTQ and I have to say a lot of this comes down to the dudes personality. Very charismatic, really leans into the fact that he is hated and loves it. It was nice waxing him.
I defeated StarCity pro, Edgar Flores once in a GPT semis. I cast a Path to Exile, he Cryptic Commanded it, then I Pathed the same creature again in response. He asked me if he could fetch 2 lands... Dude was stone cold serious our entire match. Onlookers were practically applauding when I beat him!
At one time, Alex B was a candidate for Hall of Fame. It is disgusting how blatant it is. When I a guy talk too fast Ben Shapiro style, it is a red flag.
I think it’s a common thing for people who are inherently good or successful at something to cheat more often. Like once you’ve tasted success the correct way, getting more success via cheating is more enticing
My personal favorite cheater was an opponent put out some 5-cost angel when I glanced at a TV that was on. I noticed them put out their 5th land the next turn and called it. They laughed nervously while passing it to my turn. I pressed. They admitted they put it out thinking I wouldn't notice. They offered to put it back in their hand. I put out my fifth land. I had 4 red and 1 white. I had a flying Sunweb 5/6 wall out. I looked at my hand and realized a new way to play my cards in hand. "Nah it's fine. I'm going to spend one red to put a Glyph of Destruction on this. I'm going to spend one red to put a second Glyph of Destruction on this. I'm going to spend one red for Into the Fray. Your cheaty angel has to attack now. I'm going to declare my wall as a blocker." "Okay so it dies and then the wall dies after--" "Nope. It's now a 25/2 because it's blocking. I'm going to spend my last two mana on Fling. Take 25 damage." "...Wait." "Thanks for putting that out. I couldn't have finished this so fast otherwise! :)"
As an aside, his behavior is highly unnerving to watch. The rapid twitchy shuffling of cards, the visible frustration... It seems... Familiar. In college in 2009-2010 or so I met a guy who was "good at the game" and I played a match against him. I got him to 5 health, then he beat me with mill. I hadn't put a mill-killing card in my deck -- it had gotten removed by mistake. He seemed highly agitated I got his health so low and he clearly didn't consider it a win on his part. Anyway, I put all 3 copies back in. He milled me next time I saw him in the lounge. I made him look at the card. He disregarded it. I made him look three times. I remember his little whisper of, "You put this in here because of me, didn't you..." He finally acknowledged that my graveyard returns to my library, but this card now stays in the graveyard. No, it doesn't. He was cheating me. But I allowed it -- he was going to hit two more anyway, which would bring the first back into my library. He never got the chance. He was losing. He was twitchy and shuffling fast. It made me feel awkward. I beat him with the wall fling trick. Same deck. lol He rapidly nodded and shouted "Alright, okay, fine, alright. WE'RE PLAYING AGAIN". It was not a question. It was a demand. He got out a new deck and beat me in 2-3 turns with some sort of bizarre goblin combo deck that simply exploded goblins into existence and then instantly killed you. Then he shouted "YEAH THATS WHAT I THOUGHT NOW I FEEL BETTER" and stormed off. I mentioned it to others and they said, "You beat him?" "Yeah? Is that not common?" "No, I mean... You're not supposed to beat him." "Why not?" "Dude, I'm surprised he didn't hit you." Now I wonder who that guy was.
I saw the explore clip and it reminded me of Stephen Speck who was palming opening hands for Titan Bloom and was dq'd after having his opponent cut a 53 card deck keeping a turn 1 kill hand
This is why I recommend bringing a note pad. Especially if you have bad memory. I always make a tick when I’ve played my land for the turn. And I take note of other players as well
In the brainstorm video, count the corners when the cards are flat on the table. 4 top left corners are visible (From the player's perspective, bottom right on the camera pov)
The ultimate combo turn 1 explore play my 6 lands. Turn 2 primeval titan grab 72 mountains and a valakut. Valakut says I can search my opponents library and take a card home 🤣
@@zmann9978-u7z Then, after stealing a card, call a judge because the opponent plays an illegal deck. xD Because you always run 60, grabbing any card will work to get your opponent below the minimum deck size and submitted deck list…
When I first started magic someone told me that planeswalkers died instantly against death touch. I won the match anyway but after the fact someone noticed I was lied to and told me. Apparently back then hooded blightfang was innate to all death touch creatures.
Yeah...I had the same in X-Wing. Someone "reassigning" focus points and dice after the oponent moved and it was clear which placement was more preferable, then claiming it was this way from the beginning. Being asked if the video should be rewatched just resulted in a hidden reshuffle and a claim that it was all the same, while the initial issue that raised the question was obviously wasnt on the table anymore.
It can look like 4 cards if you watch the bottom of the cards, but if you focus on the middle of them (especially in slow motion) you can see the moment the crease forms in the sleeves 10:01. The lighting shows a vertical crease (looking like the edge of another card) forming on bottom, but still diagonal in the middle. If it were another card you would not have an uninterrupted diagonal crease (illuminated by the lighting) after the cards started to separate. It is 3.
What gets me is that this kind of stuff requires a lot of practice, a lot of intent, not just stumbling blindly onto some obscurely yet effectively useful talent.
It really does, my uncle used to work casions in vegas, they teach them a lot of crazy stuff that takes months or even years to master. Basically, the house always wins.
he definitely did draw 4. I haven't used anything fancy to analyze this, just good old "looking at the edges for distinguishing features". as he drags the cards towards the edge of the screen, you can clearly see the edges of 4 cards.
Addicted to these videos right now. Would love to see some about the pokemon tcg. You could make one just like this about someone like Michael Long. Or the "did he didn't he" scandle of Tord.
I play a lot of games and honestly cheating gets me more pissed off than any number of bugs or unclear rules. Definitely smashed that like button for banning cheaters! Thanks for the vid!
Can we do a Jared boescher, cheat watch. Or even fabiano cheat watch. They were both on such a tear and were caught cheating when they were at their peak.
I'd like to see one on Boettcher, because in the aftermath even his mom tried to speak up for him. It was like, "Sorry ma'am, but your son's a scumbag who cheated people out of potentially thousands of dollars."
@@zotmaster yo thanks for getting his last name, I couldn't remember how to spell it so I just took a stab in the dark. But yeah I would like to see it too. The reason I brought up Fabiano is because he literally showed told the judges his opponent was cheating because he was using the same cheat as him. It wasn't his first time being caught either. The worst part is wizards was suppose ro crack down on cheaters( especially multiple offense cheaters) yet they only suspended him and now he's back on the circuit(pre covid).
@@matthewmulleavy9557 I'd be fine with either and/or both. I remember Boettcher a little better because of his mom sticking up for him and also because a few people in my playgroup are acquainted with him.
That's the problem cheaters never stop cheating 9 of 10 cheaters after a ban starts cheating again. If a people cheats and get a ban after he can plays again, if he cheats again then this people need a livetime ban.
In regards to drawing 4 off off brainstorm, you can see when he flips the cards face up. the 4th card is peeking out between the bottom and middle card. 100% drew an extra card.
![Stromae, Pomme - “Ma Meilleure Ennemie” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1F3OGIFnW1k/mqdefault.jpg)
Girlfriend: Where were you all night last night? You were out till 5 AM.
Alex: Exploring twice.
Girlfriend: Oh OK.
His GF was/is? Rachel Agnes, a quasi famous MTG player/model person... how she was able to be with him through all this bullshit says something
@@breakingboxesmtg1585 Likes attract likes ! :P
*What night was it?*
😀
@@breakingboxesmtg1585 yeah he's not dating Rachel anymore he's with some other chick now
"I've never lost a fair game.... never played one"
Twisted fate 😄
TF???
TOBIAS?
How is he not banned from competing?
Get that reference 😂
Funny story:
Alex was literally the person to call me out for playing an extra land once in a match against Jamie Parke (it was like turn 16 and it didn't matter, thankfully).
The entire room laughed at the irony of HIM being the one to notice, and even the judge has a good time with it. But hooboy, he's the last person I wanted that call to ever come from.
Great story!
id just shrug it off and laugh lmfao. x'D !
I wouldve deadass looked at him and said "two explores"
Cheats for me and not for thee
I mean, he would know. LOL
"He only has 2 kira in the deck right?" The commentator even said it as they had his decklist lol
In large tourneys decklist typically have to be registered ahead of time if I'm not mistaken. So in that case officials and commentators could have actually knows his list...
Noticed this too. Funniest moment of the video :)
"I don't always cheat, but when I do, I prefer Dos Explores."
YOOOOO LMFAAAOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
lol good one x'DD !
LOOOOL
🤣
amazing comment lol
“Sleight of hand” confirmed to be the most powerful card in competitive magic...
I see what u did there 👌
@@JoeyjojoShabadoo7 but Alex’s opponents didn’t :’(
Exodia?
It’s not even really slight of hand he played the lands on turn three played an explore then tried to play a land then immediately ends I was expecting the opponent to be distracted or him to play two lands on top of each other something a stage magician might do, not him lying and his opponent being too stupid to follow his opponent’s actions. How either of these idiots got on a feature match is beyond me.
Sleight of hand is the strongest card in any card game and it can still be unbeatable in other games.
Spectator : What's the current match record?
Alex : Two explores
Spectator: Alex, your nose is bleeding...
Alex: t̶̢̢̲͌͌͐ ̴̭̩͍̃̈́̚w̴͕̳͐̐̓ ̷̭̦̇ͅo̶̰͊̀ ̶̱̼̙̐ ̸̱̈́ ̵͖̮̓́ ̵̖̍̒̚ḛ̶̢̍́̉ ̷͙̤̱̍̑̆x̸̡̜̀̚ ̵̛̠̗͆ṗ̵̋̓ͅ ̴̤̽͛͝l̵͓͑ ̴̘̭͕͌͂o̷͕̟͊ ̴̮̈́͘r̵͍̻͆ ̴͉̯̉̚e̷͖͕̅̆͘ ̵̖̦̳̌̈́͝ș̶̹̟͆͝
He's one of those players that says it's the opponent's responsibility to make sure he isn't cheating. He'll do whatever he thinks he can get away with and hope you don't call him on it, then double down when he's caught to get the accuser to back down out of some misplaced "courtesy."
My opinion - Well if it is the opponent's responsibility to make sure you aren't cheating than when I say you cheated you can't dispute it and you must concede without arguing. Meaning I will win every time by turn 2 thanks cheaters for making me the best Magic player.
he is lucky that nobody there in the US does planeswalker jumping..cheaters in my country got beaten up outside post tourney
Gaslighting goes hand in hand with cheating.
That's the kind of animal that will cut you off in traffic even though the light ahead is already red
I have 0 tolerance for cheaters. I'm glad you did a video on this.
What....what does this comment mean? Does anyone have a _non-zero tolerance_ for cheating?! I think anyone who is cool with cheating _might_ be cheating themselves 0_o
@@idontwantahandlethough it means he has zero tolerance...
LOL@@swy334
Two Explores 2GG
Sorcery
"You may play 3 additional lands this turn. Draw 2 cards.
"Two Explores" must have Foretell b/c he split them up over 2 turns...
I did manage to amplify the picture of the guy that is supposed to draw the 4 cards off from the the brainstorm.
I set the colors black and white and I inverted the texture and I can confirm he drew 4 cards. Bending the cards gives you the perception they are only three but he moved his fingers in such a way so from the spectator and the opponent's point of view can't be seen. Also, those sleeves are reflecting the light itself which makes it more difficult to see the cheat plan.
We are dealing with an illusion pro right there, folks.
And the Plot Twist there is that the deck he is playing is Illusion tribal 😂😂😂😂
At my games, we have a table rule, when you draw, you draw one at a time, from the deck, and while you dont have to reveal, you do need to set them down, so everyone can count them.
We used to have a chronic cheater, and until we found someone to take his spot (we did games in groups of 4, or 2, and without him, we only had 5) we chose to just mitigate his cheaty bastard tactics.
He was also fond of things like, slipping cards from his graveyard, into the bottom of the deck, if you werent paying attention, leading to the now defunct table rule of your graveyard being on the opposite side of your field, from your deck.
Oh, and he was a card thief, so we had to keep our books, boxes, and bulk crates of card in a locked room or footlocker.
claiming you didnt steal someone's mythic foil, and then using that exact foil in the next game session, including the same damage to the same corner...not smart.
@@dreamwolf7302 The fact that you put up with someone like that so that someone wouldn’t be left out is a testament to your group’s patience, but good lord next time just do multiplayer matches lol.
@@RanOutOfSpac at the time, we ran tournament style, either a 4 way match, or a series of 1v1 matches.
We were trying to get into the habits we needed for running tournaments, and participating in them.
Honestly, we saw it as good practice for dealing with cheaters, as well as spotting them.
@@dreamwolf7302 Ah, I see. Fair enough!
I was one of the commentators in the booth for the Kira game (alongside Gavin Verhey; we were the official commentators but Patrick Chapin and Brian Kibler joined us). The cheat is really easy to miss. Gavin almost catches onto the situation ("is that the third Kira? He only has two, right?") but having extra people in the booth was kind of distracting-which is part of why SCG hasn't allowed it since like 2012, probably even earlier. This event was in January 2011, the very early days of SCG Live (the previous name of the SCG Tour). Even still, commentators can't hear the players, so any sort of verbal communication between players has to be assumed based on what is seen, *without* the option of rewinding to look at something more closely, or physically checking a graveyard. So if you miss the split-second moment when Kira goes back to hand, the Kira in the graveyard appears to be the second Kira, and nothing seems to be wrong with the game state.
This is really nice insight, thanks for sharing!
I call bullshit on this the entire chat which you guys can see at all times was screaming it out over and over
@@ziegfeld4131 LMAO and you would know because you were there huh?
@@JoeyPasco i was watching it live on stream lmao everybody saw the shit live
@@JoeyPasco i also worked for and live in the fucking town of the store that runs the series so gtfoh with that shit
Alex Bertoncheati 😂
The brainstorm cheat is so common, unfortunately. Draw 4 or put only 1 back, put none back. Seen em all 🙄
In my legacy days, I always asked how many cards were in hand before they brainstorm.
There should be a rule draw one at a time, AND count out loud while you draw. Problem solved.
@@JoeyjojoShabadoo7 watching the video showed at least Vidianto did it the way you mentioned, he took one card at a time 3 times, unlike Alex that just grabbed a handful and went "yeah this seems right"
@@JoeyjojoShabadoo7 that's exactly how it should be. All draws should be done one at a time. I'm a little more lenient on putting cards back or discarding, but you should fan out the cards so your opponent can see how many, then stack them and put them where they go. If there's any question, ask them to count the cards being moved for you.
Alex's body language is screaming he's cheating. He does the cheat part with confidence but then has an obvious internal breakdown immediately after.
If you play against him just stare him down constantly, he'll get so nervous he won't handle it
After he plays the extra land he clearly makes a gigantic nervous swallow, look at his neck :) Just like he he got away with something.
I would LOVE to play a game against this guy. What a tool.
@@GraemeGunn :dont talk about nickachu like that!....oh, i get ya, you meant the other guy.. apologies..:)
I don't think he has an issue with the cheating. I think the fidgeting and other "tells" or from his pathological need to win the game. The anxiety from that is what causes him to start bugging out. His cheating is very smooth and I don't think he has any guilt about cheating at all especially when you look at his comments about his behavior. Plus, look at the sly eye contact he makes in this video. He does that after cheating when his nerves start to calm because he can see his path to victory if his cheat continues unchallenged.
Captain Hindsight striking again.
I honestly think that the spectator of the first clip you’ve shown was still convinced that he was cheating.
Since Alex’s opponent sadly told the spectator that Alex was fine, the spectator didn’t have anything else to say since he can get removed from interfering with the match. (Or atleast that’s how I remember it.)
I don't play magic but other tcg's and the rule a lot of the times is that judges don't take third parties story into account. So it really wouldn't have mattered what he thought? I don't know if it's the same in magic though.
Interfering with a match is a no-no, however a spectator is well within their rights to report suspicion of foul play to a judge who will then monitor a match to determine whether not someone who is suspected of cheating is actually cheating. If the judge finds that the suspected cheater is in fact making rules violations in their favor, an investigation will be launched. The downside to this is there's a ton of players and only so many judges, which can stretch resources by a lot.
It's been a few years since I've played competitive Magic, so some things may have changed, but that was always the concept when I played.
L2 judge here. When spectators expect a mistake has happened, they should ask the players to stop, call a judge, then explain the situation to the judge away from the table.
Most people don’t have that confidence, but at the very least, don’t confront the players during the match about what is wrong. Get a judge, either by telling the players to pause or just leaving the match to find one (for obvious reasons, depending on the circumstances, pause the players)
When I okayed competitively (over ten years now) new rules came into effect that meant If there was a game violation a spectator could call halt the game and call a judge.
Assume this wasn’t in place during the first clip but with video evidence I reckon the guy filming it would have be justified in doing this.
@@MirroredJigsaw Hey, I'm a casual player. What's the difference between the levels of judges?
I actually hate it when players do things like brainstorming by taking "three" cards in one single hand motion and putting "two" cards back likewise in one single hand motion. Well, congrats on your awesome hand dexterity skills, but could you please allow me to clearly see that you are _actually_ drawing exactly three cards, and _actually_ putting exactly two cards back? I don't care how many years you have practiced the smooth motion to draw exactly three cards in one single sweeping motion. I want to see that you are not trying to cheat.
100%. I deliberately put my deck down and to the side, take the cards separately and either add to my hand if drawing them from there, or do what I need and replace. Anything more than 2 gets dealt onto the table first then picked up from there.
You're absolutely right. I would sometimes cheat with my friends, just for fun, by grabbing two cards at a time instead of one during my draw. I could do it in one motion, very, very slyly. It was ridiculously easy.
Magic needs to bring back some old school poker rules. You have to be very clear and precise with your card movements. If you don't, you get taken out back and shown a thing or too.
Obviously I don't condone violence, but these tricks need to stop. Draw cards one at a time adding each to you hand or a new pile in front of you separately. Failure to do so could result in a forfeit of the match. It's way too easy to manipulate cards.
I want to say that you're only allowed to draw one card at a time in the comprehensive rules, but this was years ago that I may have heard this so I'm not sure. Probably in there for this reason specifically because it's such an easy way to cheat.
I don't cheat. I just look at the bottom of my deck for funzies.
Man this guy definitely deserved a lifetime ban. He cheats even when it's likely he'll be caught, he cheats after getting caught, he cheats when there's no reason to do so, he cheats several times each game, and he cheats in a dozen different ways.
Most importantly, even after getting banned twice, Alex didn't change his behavior. Most people will change their behavior when they've been caught and called out for it. But not Alex. It's almost like actually winning the match is secondary, and what he _really_ enjoys is deceiving people, getting over on them. He's just on another level.
So he's the Tom Brady of MTG by the sound of it
He cheated on his wife with her twin sister.
Sounds like Donald Trump. The SOB doesn't care that he got caught and keeps on cheating.
there is a name for this behavior....its called a Sociopath
This dude maxed out his pickpocketing and speech. Brynjolf would be proud.
Unfortunately, his build was flawed as he ignored illusion and got caught.
As someone who lost to Alex in a top 8 of a qualifier I bet he drew 4 there. Maybe it's salt but also was alot of stress trying to watch him for cheating instead of just playing the game
I can empathize with this sentiment. How shitty would it be if you were all excited about a tournament and you instead had to laser focused on some douche to make sure he wasn't cheating instead of living the moment
I really like how you did this video in a lighthearted and funny way, and not doom and gloom drama like many of your contemporaries.
I was just thinking the same. AND what a great thread of comments. ❤️ glad I stopped by and caught this video
Or start blaming WOTC or it's judges there like SOMEbody used to.
@@michellecrist8399 I meeeeaaan who cares what the other comments say? The whole thread could be siding with Alex and that would matter to you? Could you be a little more insecure in your own convictions?
What's fun is Alex showing up at your local game store when his DCI suspension ended and you get paired against him knowing who he is. Never spent more time watching an opponent's hands and card manipulations.
He has everybody shook at sleight of hand lol
I would have refused to play against him. Store owner knows who he is and what his deal is, then im sure they would understand. Once a cheater always a cheater and they should have that follow them
He has no shame lol
@@killroy458 I'd have to refuse too. I have know my own temperament well enough to know if I caught him cheating things wouldn't end well for him or myself. At best I would expand his vocabulary politely and at the worst I would be asking him to step outside not so politely. Lol.
@@killroy458 if your opponent is not DCI suspended anymore though, you would forfeit the match with that though. Even FNM is DCI regulated, and refusing to play your opponent counts as an immediate concede, same as not showing up. 'He's a shitty person' is, sadly, no valid rule violation. So until he is caught again and suspended/banned for repeated infractions, there is little you can do, and least of all take a lose for petty principles.
Til the rule change at least. Praise the stormcrow :D
now can anyone in the class tell me why Black Lotus isn't necessary in sanctioned magic?
2 Explores
We use to call him Alex Bertoncheaty on the Star City Circuit.
EFro called him that too.
I knocked him out of a open in a win an in that he asked me to scoop to him and he threw a massive hissy fit dude was a scumbag
He totally drew 4. I could see the 4th card as he took it off the deck. It then disapears behind the 3rd as he puts the cards on the table. So I think that we do see 4 cards then as well. But he still may well have used the sleeve so he'd have that built in deniability. Like you said when he looked at the bottom card of his deck. This guy will take any advantage he can get. Alex obviously has put time and thought into his cheating. If he would have just put as much time into practicing his play and deck building as he did into cheating, he shouldn't have had to cheat to win iconically enough. But clearly he had much more faith in his skills as a cheater than a magic player.
I'm glad Wizards banned him for life. He was making a mockery of the game and the people who play it with sportsmanship.
He figures...."Why not do both?"
Also, as he picks it up off the table, you can see the edges more clearly. It's four cards.
@@RajaniIsa I'm actually fairly sure it's 3. I thought "Definitely 4" at first, but looking at the slow motion, I'm actually more convinced that it's a sleeve getting bunched up. I would've sworn 4 when I first saw it, but looking at it over and over, I'm more inclined to say 3.
@@Ashfold_Eberesche it's 4
I just got into MtG this year and I am so glad it has a community fully of laid back and humble people that just wanna play and have fun. People like this are a TINY minority which makes it more fun and easy for newcomers.
I NEVER trust a player that fidgets with their hand that much. He's shady right off the drop. Glad the cheater is being outed, people like this are a big stinky fart on the game.
well i fidget like a madman and i would never cheat.. couldn't if i even wanted to i just have overwhelming anxiety >_
On my days playing mtg physical format, when my oponent was taking too long to think i would start shuffling my hand or just continuosly changing the order of the cards, was just bored and it was my way of not just screaming to their face that they were on turn 1 with a tapped freaking land so they had not that many options xD
I roll my cards all game keeps my opponents guessing, I beat people that don't fidget lol
@@icebergslim1872 Guessing at what though? Nobody knows whats in your hand in the first place. Fidget players just give me bad vibes. I've had more fidget players try card tricks/sleight of hand on me than any other type of player. All that extra movement gives a person a lot of room too screw around.
@@ErokLobotomist at what card is where in my hand is all, plus it just rolls smoothly. Idk. I've had more cheaters try to cheat with me so i can't relate to your experience I suppose
I get called a rule lawyer a lot, but guys like Alex are why I'm like that. In my experience for every 5 or 6 mtg players there's at least one Alex. It's been years since I've played competitively, but when I did last play, colored-backed sleeves were generally banned and only clear sleeves allowed, exactly because of this kind of thing as well as marking.
clear sleeves are generally banned because of marking, lol
Just getting into MTG. I'm a fan of real life close up magic. After seeing how busy the back of some cards sleeves are. There's no way those aren't marked. Like even with clear sleeve or solid one color you could still mark them. But it's significantly easier, any moron could mark the backs of those busy cards and you wouldn't be able to spot the difference without staring at each card side to side.
He drew 4 cards of brainstorm. Always expect the worst when dealing with that kind of trash
I'm also a poker player, so it has always astonished me how many people only look at their hand or side of the board. I love that you do this!
He definitely drew at LEAST 4 cards from that brainstorm
I counted minimum four, but in two frames it looked like 5
There's at least 4 cards drawn off of Brainstorm
@@williamlawton3630 indeed
4 clear as day...wut a loser
@@SpiceWeazel 3 cards, 2 explores... :)
Had somebody in my old EDH playgroup that thrived on “not knowing” the rules or not knowing what his cards did. He would counter enchantments with Flusterstorm, he would try to gilded drake steal hexproof creatures. He would sacrifice an artifact with 4cmc Daretti as a cost for his minus, thus letting him trigger an ugin’s nexus even if the minus ability was countered by stifle or scooze. I think some of these were genuine cases of wishful thinking and not knowing the rules, but only some of them.
Here's my pro-tip for when we return to paper magic. When it isn't your turn, set your hand down and just look at your opponent. You know what's in your hand, watch for cheating during your opponents turn.
If you love playing decks with free wins, just wait until you get free wins for catching multiple lands drops
On top of this if you have any doubts of their shuffling or their card drawing, Tell them to slow down in the case of card draw (or any action really) and call a judge to watch them if you need to.
Crazy Hands means you keep watching
I always take note of the number of lands and cards in hand/graveyard.
Too many sleight of hand tricks. Caught 2 people putting killed creatures back into their hand, thinking their sleight of hand was good enough. Judges like logic, thankfully.
I do this anyway. But it's more of an intimidation tactic.
My memory of cards is... unusually good. I know what's in my hand. I can often figure out what my opponent has through context clues.
Tournament play will never go back to paper magic.
If you look closely at 10:09 and count all the noticeable edges that a single card could give off, it starts to look more like 4 cards. Which would also be consistent when he first fans them out on the table where it also looks like there are 4 cards present, which you pointed out.
it looked like 5 to 6 cards right when he picked it up, unless that was just the light reflection @10:06.
Lost in the Legacy-format finals of a GP side event to Alex Bertoncini at GP Minneapolis just one month before his permanent banning, on a dubious piece of "bad luck." Only found out a few days later who he was.
Cheaters don't stop cheating when the stakes are low. Having folks like this in the community taints the whole MTG experience.
This guy Alex must have played thousands of games. No matter what video I see him mentioned in, I always get to read a new story about him cheating somebody else.
@@Chance57 everyone who lost to him will claim they got cheated, even if the opponent just was awful.
Just remember folks, if you're spectating and see something untoward happening....
CALL A JUDGE
Not blaming the guy doing the video in the first one, but he should have stopped the game and called a judge right away. Might have just been a warning, but they add up. Calling a judge is NEVER a bad thing, both as a player AND a spectator
“What turn is it?”
“I didn’t didn’t do it.”
“Or Alex is gonna get unbanned”
Jeeze your channel is great no need for threats
Man, reminds me of people who put monsters facedown in spell/trap zones in Yugioh (for anyone who doesn't know, one archetype is essentially Hellbent with combo potential).
Definitely a four card draw though. Always be suspicious when people don't obviously count individual draws.
I'll never forget the prowess player who accidentally scry'd when drawing, looks at me, waiting for a reaponse, and I let it slide and still beat him fairly! Haha
For me it's the guy trying to kill one of my creatures in my turn with a sorcery hahaha.
If the other player owns up to it immediately, I’d just have him shuffle his deck and keep playing.
Accidents happen. If a guy admits it, and I'd count that response as admitting it, then it's not always worth calling a ref or making him forfeit. I hate winning on technicalities like that when it's clearly an accident. We've all been there and the best thing to do is try not to let it influence the game.
Waiting for Blue-Eyes to be summoned and for Bill to be activated.
What I always hate most about these cheaters in these videos is as a relatively noobish player if any of these guys assert enough I'm just gonna assume I misunderstood. When I was a kid teenagers would notoriously bully in yugioh to same effect so you wouldn't quesiton what they did. It's bullying at it's finest which for a game like magic that's supposed to even playing field is flat out cruel.
One of the simpler solutions to curb some of the cheating is to make sure all players zones are in the same area at all times. For instance In this video Alex has his graveyard above his library when most players place it below the library. It allows him to also be able to confuse opponents into thinking that the card in the library is in play because of how close it is to the battlefield zone.
Or clearly announce your plays. Like the kira in the hand
“i think you played an extra land”
*long pause*
“two explores”
The funny thing is, the guy didn't even accuse him of playing a second land. All he said was "What turn is it?" And the cheater, immediately aware that he was under the microscope for cheating, answers "two explores" to justify an accusation that was never made. He is guilty as they come. He actually sucks at manipulation and deception. He is nervous as fuck in all these videos. He constantly fidgets, plays with cards, looks around. He's as guilty looking as they come and his response to "What turn is it?" is a dead give away of guilt. He's basically saying out loud "I CHEATED."
It only works because many magic players are either A: too in the tank to notice and not paying attention to their opponent (this is bad play, but in no way justifies cheating) or B: A lot of MtG players are extremely shy, introverted, nonconfrontational people. These are the types of people that are extremely easy to manipulate because they dislike confrontation and conflict that much. Sometimes they may even know they are being had, but the social stress of having to openly disagree and then confront someone about issue, potentially call over a judge and have a whole scene is too much.
As for the scrying thing he did, I would have called judge. He basically puts the scryed cards into his hand with the other cards before putting them back/bottoming them. It's basically impossible for the opponent to verify he was bottoming the scryed cards and not different cards from his hand, and picking up his deck and looking at the bottom is also blatant cheating. Cheating is rampant in this card game, if Wizard's won't implement strict gameplay conduct/standards as rules (i.e. you may never hold both your hand and cards currently scryed/played at the same time. A deck never fully leaves the table unless it is being shuffled, etc), then players must police each other.
It's sad that's it like this, but if they implemented some draconian rules with even harsher enforcement for a few years, they could purge a lot of cheaters from the community and then relax those kinds of standards slightly over time.
@@LC-wv7tz While the answer of 2 explores looks bad, if I'd been asked that question with the legal, 5 lands in play on turn 3, I might have answered the same thing. I know the spectator is wondering about the number of lands in play so early in the game and 2 explores would explain the situation.
@@LC-wv7tz well said
@@jaywinner328 but if you played legally, and you wouldn’t know why the turn clock was being asked. It wouldn’t be on the forefront of your mind for someone to ask what turn it was. If you’re just playing the game normally you wouldn’t really know if something is out of place for them to be inquiring about. Me I’d have called a judge immediately after he said “two explores” because that would tell me it’s intentional. Forgetting whether you’ve made a land drop happens, so the catching the extra land drop in a deck that drops a bunch of lands is easy to miss. But the moment he tried to defend it, I’d have called a judge and showed them the recording. I’ve caught my opponents misresolving triggers or other things that were genuine mistakes. That’s what makes it easy to know this one was on purpose
@@jordanharrison8769 Nothing wrong with calling a judge in such a situation. But if I'd ramped out that fast and some casual onlooker asked the turn, I'd know exactly why. The board has nothing else to even consider.
The competitive games need to have very clear rules to prevent cheating. Like showing your opponent the exact amount of cards you are discarding and drawing.
You mean competitive have judges just not paying attention or enforcing anything? Wtf is the point then
I was a cheater for years, it was like an addiction really. It wasn't about winning, not quite, either. It was about always having the answer if there was one in my deck. Not to come off as a good player, but just not as a BAD one. The irony being that it made me a very bad player, because I never had to build my deck right or decide between lines any game I could get away with cheating.
It was getting caught and chewed out for it that made me stop, despite sitting in self-loathing and telling myself I would quit for years. Changing takes facing consequences, whether self-initiated or externally enforced.
All I'll say is that cheating is surprisingly easy to get away with for a long time. I was no magician, like Alex. Cheating is, above everything else, a confidence game. Cheaters get away with it because their opponents trust them. The darkest part about that is that the people most easily cheated, and harmed, were the friends who trusted me the most.
You’re the reason we give 2nd chances.
You want Pepsi or Coke?
Alex: 2 explores.
No explores- Pepsi!
His wife: Who the hell is this woman?!
Alex: 2 explorers
Hey Christmas 0/
Who are you talking to at 3 in the morning?
yo whats good Christmas
I wonder if R&D was like "who should we use as a template for Uro" and then looked at his explore skills.
🤯
On my old monitor, I couldn't see the 4th brainstorm card. On my C2 Oled? Plain as day.
That video is great for testing monitor clarity. :p
I think it was a draw four by mistake because he's also playing UNO in his head. He probably meant to grab 6.
Regarding the Kira one specifically, if it was an isolated incident, I *might* have thought it was an honest mistake. Even if he had just done the same thing with a previous Kira, mistakes do happen, people slip up. Once I caught the mistake, I'd have figured out a solution (since Kira being bounced properly changed how the rest of the turn would have gone). Again, *if* it was an *isolated* incident. Obviously with a known cheater, its different.
This guy HAD to have practiced cheating in his free time, he's so smooth at it
Experience builds confidence, even with cheating
Don’t quote me on this, but I think he was into Yu Gi Yoh competitively at one point, and apparently cheating was rampant in that game.
It’s rampant in any game with high competition. That said, one high ranking judge once did an AMA and when asked what the worst part of the job was, she said (paraphrasing here): “seeing how often people tried to get away with stuff. Not necessarily cheating but doing all they could just short of cheating.”
He was just too smooth for his time, no one was as bold as this dude
@@tgholness If you weren't cheating at your local tournament in yu gi oh you weren't likely to climb. The odds for some powerful opening hands in yugioh are less then 3% yet I would see them in every ladder match, no one was ever sus... We perfected slight of hand tricks, cheat shuffling the art of suggestions and all sorts of David Blain inspired tricks to help secure those tournament booster packs. Just for context I was young, very poor, living in a ghetto. TCG's in my childhood was a living, not just a game for kids. I would buy groceries for my family when I was just 12 off my yugioh winnings twice a month, so needless to say the stakes were high. I eventually retired out of guilt and gave away all of my cards.
I want to see a showmatch between 2 banned cheaters where they try to out-cheat their opponent and not get caught
The real crime is not having a tripod for that camera
For all of its faults, one fantastic thing about MTG Arena is you can't cheat.
Well, except with your lag switch
you cant, but wotc can
@@dogdriver70 ooo we got a conspiracy theorist?
@@lakingpaul Well if you believe they would cheat to help their paper pros get bomb sealed pools and gravy pairings, why wouldn't they cheat to help their digital pros?
@@dogdriver70 because it makes zero sense is why...
Players like this are why I rarely play at that level anymore (and I say this as someone who’s been in the pro tour and other high level events and performed very well). I started to notice what I call micro-cheats on a lot of the games toward the finals. I think you called it cheating on the edges, here. It’s just so sickening to lose out of events because you have morals. Even those tiny 1-2% advantages can add up across a long day. So anyway, 10-15 years ago, I was seeing it everywhere and it just made me sick. I’ve been playing only online and casual EDH ever since. These people really ruin the game for everyone.
As for the brainstorm, that’s totally 4 cards. I’ve seen others do this cheat against me. Two of the cards are held together to look like one. It seems he got sloppy and they slipped out of alignment as he adds them to his hand. And yeah, those cheap sleeves are totally a micro-cheat, since he can slip like this and blame the sleeves.
I noticed the jump in micro-cheating at the same time. Actually left the game for 12 years before coming back recently. I still avoid FNM events and most things organized by WOTC. If you're not playing against an OP Net-Decker, you're up against a micro-cheater. To tiring to bother with. Arena was really cool at first because it auto-enforced the rules.
Anybody who fiddles with their hand that much and twitches around in general can't be trusted in my eyes.
@@ErokLobotomist so like, I absolutely agree that micro cheats suck, but I gotta say that there is absolutely nothing wrong with netdecking. and a lot of people (myself included) can't help the constant hand shuffling and nervous ticks, it's just part of how I ease my anxiety of playing, and on a secondary note, hand shuffling is vital to high level play, if someone rips a card and they know what you have in hand if you dont shuffle they can track what cards are being played and which are not
@@cyclone8411 Shuffling your hand can be VERY annoying for your opponent, and distract them from their plays. That's what happens to me, anyways. Shuffling your hand here and there is okay, but when people go overboard and do it quickly and constantly, it really irritates me.
@@TehSeksyManz I mean, sure you're allowed to feel that way, and I hate that it can be distracting to you and I'm sure some people probably do it with the intent of distracting the opponent. In my case specifically, and several people I know for that matter, shuffling my hand isn't a choice, it's a form of stimming that eases anxiety and allows for clear thought. I'm personally of the opinion that you shouldn't let your opponent distract you, whether with habits they have or with conversation, or whatever else. Now of course I understand that it isn't as simple as "just don't get distracted" but you see where I'm coming from hopfully. sorry this is probably pretty rambly, I have a communication disorder so organizing my thoughts isn't all that easy for me
@@cyclone8411 MTG is like music to me. Sure you can get by just fine being a cover band, but that's all you'll ever be unless you make your own music. All the power to net-deckers, I just have no respect for it, it takes no effort or skill to play someone else's game in my opinion. It's like playing on auto-pilot. High level play and all anxiety aside, I've always found I've had to keep a closer eye on players that fidget and adjust their hand constantly. Those players also tend to constantly touch their decks, which I also have a personal thing about. It's always easier to pulla slight of hand if your hands are already always moving and the opponent has to watch you.
Not accusing you of anything or ripping on anyone, just presenting my side of the coin.
This is interesting show of how most people are non confrontational. They knew he played an extra land. They explained it, but Alex stuck to it and no one wanted to make a scene.
I love these sort of videos. I swear you are the only MTG youtuber making these style of videos. Keep em coming!
This is also the kid who rage quits and flips the table when he loses from a fair game 🤣
Bertoncini: "Dammit! I couldn't catch THEM cheating!!"
I'm not even mad, I'm impressed..... and mad
Anchorman ftw!
#Ron Burgundy
Watching mtg "Pros" play is so aggrevating. They can never play the game like normal people. Its like their turns go in order of 1.draw card, 2. wipe card on table. 3 shuffle hand, 4 shuffle hand again 5. Add new card into hand, 6 shuffle hand 7.pretend to put hand onto table then immediately shuffle hand again 8. cheat 9 shuffle hand again 10. play first card onto table bending it in half as they do so.
"Merfolk is the fairest deck in magic" - Nikachu, Merfolk Master.
He's right though. Midrange decks are the most balanced decks because they generally win via combat beat down and minor control. Like death and taxes
I have a mono blue flying storm crow... it's pisses people off
Anyone ever think that someone once told Alex "You should learn magic" and they WEREN'T talking about the card game.
Lol
Last time they caught me cheating was because a toughseize revealed 5 Lightning Bolts in my opening hand.
Could have been worse do.... I run usually 12.
Wait.... can't people learn to count?
12 bolts, 5 chalices
I once had a guy try to get me disqualified because I said I was going to activate a creature ability when he had priority. Along the lines of "Once you attack I'm going to activate this" and he immediately stood up and called the judge to get me removed, lol. The local hot shot really showed his colors when he was losing.
*Me seeing a question during finals I don't know*
2 explores
Definitely drew 4 cards, even with the ripples the top edges of the cards won’t cut at an angle like that. Definitely looks like 4 cards
He drew 4. That is not a wrinkle. That is the 4th card. If the sleeves are "Dragon Sleeves". They don't bend/wrinkle like that. Even if they weren't. They still would not bend/wrinkle like that.
I absolutely believe he drew 4. He flips through it all so fast, and given his history it's super plausible. As you said, it's difficult to prove it, but I still believe he drew 4. Dude brazenly put graveyard into his hand.
This might be one of the best I‘ve ever seen at slight of hand
He's doing the wrong kind of magic
Check out Shin Lim, a Magician who is amazing at it.
This cheater could be a good magician. I don't understand why he would use the time, skills, and practice to cheat at a game instead.
@@RandomPerson-nd2ey I don't understand why he wouldn't bother learning blinds. Do some reverse laser shit on the top of the deck and even cameras can't catch it.
Had the uhh pleasure... of playing against this dude a while back. It was an RPTQ and I have to say a lot of this comes down to the dudes personality. Very charismatic, really leans into the fact that he is hated and loves it. It was nice waxing him.
I defeated StarCity pro, Edgar Flores once in a GPT semis. I cast a Path to Exile, he Cryptic Commanded it, then I Pathed the same creature again in response. He asked me if he could fetch 2 lands...
Dude was stone cold serious our entire match. Onlookers were practically applauding when I beat him!
Yeah Edgar Flores was awful, IIRC he was banned in yugioh for cheating then switched over to magic to cheat some more.
Omfg... PLEASE do a ban tier list on banned players 😂😂😂😂😂😂
This would be amusing lol
Gold content
This is the best comment on the video, no contest
This!!!
I mean most are banned for practically the same things
Come on I'm sure Alex just thought the legends rule applied to the graveyard so the only place left for Kira to go was back to his hand.
At one time, Alex B was a candidate for Hall of Fame. It is disgusting how blatant it is. When I a guy talk too fast Ben Shapiro style, it is a red flag.
I think it’s a common thing for people who are inherently good or successful at something to cheat more often. Like once you’ve tasted success the correct way, getting more success via cheating is more enticing
If somebody says they LIKE Ben Shapiro, it's a red flag.
My personal favorite cheater was an opponent put out some 5-cost angel when I glanced at a TV that was on. I noticed them put out their 5th land the next turn and called it. They laughed nervously while passing it to my turn. I pressed. They admitted they put it out thinking I wouldn't notice. They offered to put it back in their hand.
I put out my fifth land. I had 4 red and 1 white. I had a flying Sunweb 5/6 wall out.
I looked at my hand and realized a new way to play my cards in hand.
"Nah it's fine.
I'm going to spend one red to put a Glyph of Destruction on this.
I'm going to spend one red to put a second Glyph of Destruction on this.
I'm going to spend one red for Into the Fray. Your cheaty angel has to attack now.
I'm going to declare my wall as a blocker."
"Okay so it dies and then the wall dies after--"
"Nope. It's now a 25/2 because it's blocking. I'm going to spend my last two mana on Fling. Take 25 damage."
"...Wait."
"Thanks for putting that out. I couldn't have finished this so fast otherwise! :)"
As an aside, his behavior is highly unnerving to watch. The rapid twitchy shuffling of cards, the visible frustration... It seems... Familiar.
In college in 2009-2010 or so I met a guy who was "good at the game" and I played a match against him. I got him to 5 health, then he beat me with mill. I hadn't put a mill-killing card in my deck -- it had gotten removed by mistake. He seemed highly agitated I got his health so low and he clearly didn't consider it a win on his part.
Anyway, I put all 3 copies back in. He milled me next time I saw him in the lounge. I made him look at the card. He disregarded it. I made him look three times. I remember his little whisper of, "You put this in here because of me, didn't you..."
He finally acknowledged that my graveyard returns to my library, but this card now stays in the graveyard. No, it doesn't. He was cheating me. But I allowed it -- he was going to hit two more anyway, which would bring the first back into my library.
He never got the chance. He was losing. He was twitchy and shuffling fast. It made me feel awkward. I beat him with the wall fling trick. Same deck. lol
He rapidly nodded and shouted "Alright, okay, fine, alright. WE'RE PLAYING AGAIN". It was not a question. It was a demand. He got out a new deck and beat me in 2-3 turns with some sort of bizarre goblin combo deck that simply exploded goblins into existence and then instantly killed you. Then he shouted "YEAH THATS WHAT I THOUGHT NOW I FEEL BETTER" and stormed off.
I mentioned it to others and they said, "You beat him?" "Yeah? Is that not common?" "No, I mean... You're not supposed to beat him." "Why not?" "Dude, I'm surprised he didn't hit you."
Now I wonder who that guy was.
Little do we all know, Nikachu also Jedi mind tricked us into watching his content
In my local community cheating is a prevailing problem especially during pre release and constructed. I have 0 tolerance to cheating.
I saw the explore clip and it reminded me of Stephen Speck who was palming opening hands for Titan Bloom and was dq'd after having his opponent cut a 53 card deck keeping a turn 1 kill hand
Mike Long infamously had a Cadaverous Bloom in his lap. On camera.
This is why I recommend bringing a note pad. Especially if you have bad memory. I always make a tick when I’ve played my land for the turn. And I take note of other players as well
I can’t stand cheaters there’s no honor in winning if you cheat...
In the brainstorm video, count the corners when the cards are flat on the table. 4 top left corners are visible (From the player's perspective, bottom right on the camera pov)
The ultimate combo turn 1 explore play my 6 lands. Turn 2 primeval titan grab 72 mountains and a valakut. Valakut says I can search my opponents library and take a card home 🤣
Lmao
Only ONE explore? Lame
Makes you wonder if he ever used his sleight of hand tactics to pocket someone else's card even in big events
@@zmann9978-u7z Then, after stealing a card, call a judge because the opponent plays an illegal deck. xD
Because you always run 60, grabbing any card will work to get your opponent below the minimum deck size and submitted deck list…
This is when the camera is rolling. Imagine how bad it is when the camera isn't rolling.
When I first started magic someone told me that planeswalkers died instantly against death touch. I won the match anyway but after the fact someone noticed I was lied to and told me. Apparently back then hooded blightfang was innate to all death touch creatures.
This seems to be a common confusion, in fact.
Yeah...I had the same in X-Wing. Someone "reassigning" focus points and dice after the oponent moved and it was clear which placement was more preferable, then claiming it was this way from the beginning. Being asked if the video should be rewatched just resulted in a hidden reshuffle and a claim that it was all the same, while the initial issue that raised the question was obviously wasnt on the table anymore.
I mean Nikachu´s grandfather was playing in the golden times of cheaters.
It can look like 4 cards if you watch the bottom of the cards, but if you focus on the middle of them (especially in slow motion) you can see the moment the crease forms in the sleeves 10:01. The lighting shows a vertical crease (looking like the edge of another card) forming on bottom, but still diagonal in the middle. If it were another card you would not have an uninterrupted diagonal crease (illuminated by the lighting) after the cards started to separate. It is 3.
What gets me is that this kind of stuff requires a lot of practice, a lot of intent, not just stumbling blindly onto some obscurely yet effectively useful talent.
It really does, my uncle used to work casions in vegas, they teach them a lot of crazy stuff that takes months or even years to master. Basically, the house always wins.
it likely also involves help from other players giving you feedback until you can perfect the cheat
he definitely did draw 4. I haven't used anything fancy to analyze this, just good old "looking at the edges for distinguishing features". as he drags the cards towards the edge of the screen, you can clearly see the edges of 4 cards.
I think constant hand shuffling is very annoying to watch and kind of obnoxious.
Definitely
Addicted to these videos right now. Would love to see some about the pokemon tcg. You could make one just like this about someone like Michael Long. Or the "did he didn't he" scandle of Tord.
Frozone: "Honey, where's my super suit?"
Alex: "Uh... 2 explore"
I wonder if cheating is worth all that stress. I run a werewolf deck and only win like 33 percent of the time and I have fun still losing.
I can't believe someone can be that confident cheating.
I'd eat my hat if that Brainstorm were only three cards. I see four corners.
When looking at before he takes them off the top it seems to be 4 distinct ridges plus the flare when picking off the table #4confirmed
I play a lot of games and honestly cheating gets me more pissed off than any number of bugs or unclear rules. Definitely smashed that like button for banning cheaters! Thanks for the vid!
You’re welcome!
Can we do a Jared boescher, cheat watch. Or even fabiano cheat watch. They were both on such a tear and were caught cheating when they were at their peak.
I'd like to see one on Boettcher, because in the aftermath even his mom tried to speak up for him. It was like, "Sorry ma'am, but your son's a scumbag who cheated people out of potentially thousands of dollars."
@@zotmaster yo thanks for getting his last name, I couldn't remember how to spell it so I just took a stab in the dark. But yeah I would like to see it too. The reason I brought up Fabiano is because he literally showed told the judges his opponent was cheating because he was using the same cheat as him. It wasn't his first time being caught either. The worst part is wizards was suppose ro crack down on cheaters( especially multiple offense cheaters) yet they only suspended him and now he's back on the circuit(pre covid).
@@matthewmulleavy9557 I'd be fine with either and/or both. I remember Boettcher a little better because of his mom sticking up for him and also because a few people in my playgroup are acquainted with him.
That's the problem cheaters never stop cheating 9 of 10 cheaters after a ban starts cheating again. If a people cheats and get a ban after he can plays again, if he cheats again then this people need a livetime ban.
In regards to drawing 4 off off brainstorm, you can see when he flips the cards face up. the 4th card is peeking out between the bottom and middle card. 100% drew an extra card.