the INDESTRUCTIBLE drivetrain swap for the COPO truck

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  • Опубликовано: 24 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 338

  • @gtrider316
    @gtrider316 2 года назад +63

    COPO Truck is one of the nicest builds I have seen on any automotive channel to date. Legit all around beautiful truck.

    • @LawrenceTolman
      @LawrenceTolman  2 года назад +9

      thanks a ton, that's much appreciated!

    • @coltengottschalk1049
      @coltengottschalk1049 2 года назад +6

      Umm go look at stangkiller performance ZL1500 you will easily change you’re mind.. I AM NOT knocking the copo truck by any means but you said nicest build you have ever seen on an automotive channel and I can’t let that slide. That trucks got over 100k into it and is beautiful. Paddle shifters, 800+ whp, full coil over front and rear, original paint job and interior. He also has built a second one that is red.

    • @coltengottschalk1049
      @coltengottschalk1049 2 года назад

      Also forgot to mention the red one has over 1000whp and is also original paint and interior from 94

    • @jakewade7388
      @jakewade7388 2 года назад

      Agree!

    • @stephenjenkins9599
      @stephenjenkins9599 2 года назад +1

      @@coltengottschalk1049 the red one originally had red interior and now it's gray...it's original style but not original to the truck...and a painted dash

  • @tommoon2700
    @tommoon2700 2 года назад +34

    We gotta protect LT at all cost, this man's a Gm Guinness 👍🤙🇺🇸💪

  • @mrhorspwer
    @mrhorspwer 2 года назад +3

    Not just any ice cream in the fridge: Drumsticks. Sticks are unbelievable.

  • @Heffelz8
    @Heffelz8 2 года назад +24

    I love your step by step instructional how-to approach. This is going to live on as great reference material for many people in the near and not so near future.

    • @tommoon2700
      @tommoon2700 2 года назад +3

      So many bad ass builds are going to be inspired bc of LT

    • @alfredogarciajr40
      @alfredogarciajr40 2 года назад +1

      @@tommoon2700 ill be one of them.

    • @LawrenceTolman
      @LawrenceTolman  2 года назад +3

      Glad it was helpful!

    • @Heffelz8
      @Heffelz8 2 года назад +2

      @@LawrenceTolman I’m rebuilding an 85 Datsun/Nissan 720 pickup with a 2.4l 4 cylinder and a 5 speed stick. Watching how you tackle issues + the tools you use gives me hope that when it’s done, it will be right. And if it’s not, I’ll keep wrenching till it’s my kind of perfect.

    • @jradish
      @jradish 2 года назад

      @@Heffelz8 that's the spirit man

  • @markszczepaniak5888
    @markszczepaniak5888 2 года назад +6

    LT you have shown GM missed the boat ride, they should of built a factory truck similar to this, it would of sold well and would of been the talk of the town. Thankyou for the video.

  • @atomic178
    @atomic178 2 года назад +4

    Glad you like the mounts and the truck is coming along nicely! I am not sure if you mentioned it but the dipstick tube is different for the 80e vs the 60e . The actual dipstick is the same, just the tube is different. It is a great idea to actual calibrate your dipstick to your "true full" level on your transmission where your builder wants it, typically 1/8" above the pan rail by drilling a hole or scribing a new line. Fluid starving the 80e is a common source of transmission problems in the 80e since the pickup is in the front of the pan. Lastly, if you notch that middle crossmember in front of the gas tank you can drop the tcase and trans together instead of having to separate them first.

    • @LawrenceTolman
      @LawrenceTolman  2 года назад

      yup, great point worth touching on for sure. I showed the steps back when I rebuilt the trans, and the factory marks were about 3/4" too low

  • @codylapoint
    @codylapoint 2 года назад +4

    FYI, most 120v air compressors have terminals inside the pecker head for 240v. You just need to switch a few spade connectors around. It will use less electricity wired that way, will run better, and won't trip breakers all the time. You can look up the wire schematics for your motor online if they are not inside the motor already.

  • @teaguegearhart9851
    @teaguegearhart9851 2 года назад +1

    New plate install was smooth. Stronger and better. Got to like that. Plus an ice cream break to boot.

  • @daltondavis0668
    @daltondavis0668 2 года назад +3

    I cringed at 10:25 because I for some reason thought your finger was in the path of the jack going down 🤣

  • @noonergarage4114
    @noonergarage4114 2 года назад +1

    No doubt! Protect those ears! I've got tinnitus from my car stereo days back in the early 90's. It isn't fun now, but sure was back then. Great series on the COPO! Love that truck!

  • @Brainstangs
    @Brainstangs 2 года назад +4

    Stock 01-06 DMax front driveshaft drops right in. 20 bucks at the yard. I’ve hit it with 1600 whp no issues.

  • @steveh4837
    @steveh4837 2 года назад +2

    LT, you’ve got to put AC in that garage. Given the hours your spend out there and the increase in the productivity you’d gain from it, it’d be worth every penny. It’d be a business expense since you’re doing your work for the channel in there.
    I did that to my garage last year and put in a two ton mini split. This weekend I washed my motorcycle in a 75 degree garage while it was 102 outside here in Houston.

  • @jamesmalloy9626
    @jamesmalloy9626 2 года назад +1

    Ratchet n pull type straps are awesome for trans,transfers, or rear ends removal or installs… Especially when you work alone….

  • @awdss_silverado1449
    @awdss_silverado1449 2 года назад +1

    I'm goin to be doing the same soon. This helps !

  • @b.s.adventures9421
    @b.s.adventures9421 2 года назад

    That’s the great thing bout Gm.
    This goes with that from a large year spread.

  • @nicholasgolde8687
    @nicholasgolde8687 2 года назад +1

    Wish I known there was a seal driver yesterday!!! Was doing the front output t-case seal on my LMM and it took me 5 hours and hot red sun-burned legs later to finally get it done. 10/10 won't recommend unless you're rebuilding the T-case!! Thats the end of my rant lol. COPO Truck is coming out awesome!! Might do a similar drivetrain setup on my 07 Avalanche, but stick with the 246 T-case with the 4l80. Also grabbed an 8.1 Vortec for my Mother and I's 71 Camaro Pro-street project. Can't wait to get that on the road too!!

    • @LawrenceTolman
      @LawrenceTolman  2 года назад +1

      sounds like a fun project! I'd hate to remove that seal without taking apart the transfer case, that would be no fun

  • @emperor002002
    @emperor002002 2 года назад

    So this is pretty much for the Trailblazer SS team. Thanks

  • @deanm4138
    @deanm4138 2 года назад +2

    That truck is sweet! Definitely built the way I like it as well with all factory parts.
    Can’t believe it’s been a year already I’ve been subscribed pretty much from the beginning and have watched this particular build from the day you picked it up , it’s been very cool LT can’t wait to see what the motor plans are for it

  • @snooka2484
    @snooka2484 Год назад

    Yup. I'm in a dead silent garage right now with a cup a coffee and all what I hear is ringing. I definitely paid the price. I need a fan or some other white noise on to fall asleep.
    Protect those ears!

  • @johnfaubion7720
    @johnfaubion7720 2 года назад +1

    Use the bolts down thru the bracket and use flange nuts on the pan. That way you find have to take the bracket of just to change fluid and filler.

  • @SyTySpeedShop
    @SyTySpeedShop 2 года назад +4

    I’m surprised you didn’t do the poly trans mount as well.
    Cant wait to see how it runs with the 80e. Would be nice to see some dyno pulls to see how the RWHP compares to the 60e RWHP numbers.

  • @Scandalous3pedals
    @Scandalous3pedals 2 года назад +1

    Nice to see you using atomic fab mounts. Richard makes good stuff.

  • @coolHandLuke5150
    @coolHandLuke5150 2 года назад

    I use to use a 4.5 for everything. Alway had 4 handy, skinny disc, hard disc, flap and wire. The last use years i hand myself like the fit and finish of a file and a deburing tool.

  • @767dag
    @767dag 2 года назад

    this is by far the coolest truck build out there

  • @RyanMangan
    @RyanMangan 2 года назад

    This is one of the cleanest builds I’ve ever seen.

  • @pob_car
    @pob_car 2 года назад +2

    Make the chrome on the copo truck black! Wheels and headlights !

  • @DaInfamous0ne
    @DaInfamous0ne 2 года назад

    By FAR one of my favorite channels.

  • @gocart09
    @gocart09 2 года назад +1

    Come on Bendpak sponsor this guy already

  • @jesseogden7683
    @jesseogden7683 2 года назад +1

    Love the channel, brings back memories of Saturday morning powerblock.

  • @sogood4u489
    @sogood4u489 2 года назад +1

    Love the COPO build so much more future potential, I think its about time you get a proper intro for the videos I'm sure it would be a fun process to make.

  • @jackstoepfer1494
    @jackstoepfer1494 2 года назад

    Awesome! I’m 4l80 np208 swapping my rig right now too

  • @jakewade7388
    @jakewade7388 2 года назад +1

    Definitely wear ear protection. Great advice.

  • @adriannewman1322
    @adriannewman1322 2 года назад

    Love your builds keep up the good work. Lot of people don't know that if the converter isn't spaced right it can and will wipe out the pump especially if it got too much clearance. Also when I put trannys in if they have 4 or more bolts I tightened them up 180 degrees apart from each other too pull the converter up square

  • @fastfnhemi4384
    @fastfnhemi4384 2 года назад

    Cool to see someone else use blue demon products. I FN love them. Quality!

  • @reddevilent.1587
    @reddevilent.1587 2 года назад

    I got the same head light from night buddy! It's a good product !!

  • @lamarw9901
    @lamarw9901 2 года назад +3

    I'd love to see a NNBS brake swap if it works with the 4wd/AWD knuckle, and it'd be great in the start stop challenge.

  • @bluecollarhotrods9781
    @bluecollarhotrods9781 2 года назад +5

    I'll be curious to see what works for driveshafts, my 2WD truck only required a different yoke after the 80E swap. And I have heard that a stock 2500 front shaft works for 4WD. Also, love the DTR stuff. I have his transmission mount in my 2001 2WD truck, his design is superior to others IMO - gave me tons of room when routing the exhaust system.

    • @jeffkohnzart
      @jeffkohnzart 2 года назад

      I have the same question on the front shaft! Rear is definitely going to need to be shortened.

  • @jeromeirving4770
    @jeromeirving4770 2 года назад +1

    I highly recommend you get a max jack lift. So that way when not in use. It can go into a corner

  • @yepyep340
    @yepyep340 2 года назад +1

    Really really good stuff here. Thank you

  • @citylimitsbassin
    @citylimitsbassin 2 года назад

    A mini split ac unit would help on those hot days. Great content

    • @kenswitzer4133
      @kenswitzer4133 2 года назад

      I have never heard of this. Can you share a site with me? Thanks much👍👍👍✌️✌️👌

  • @james10739
    @james10739 2 года назад

    Putting the trans on the jack before you roll it under seems great I generally can't get my truck that high and also I'm just on a piece of plywood

  • @timthompson2578
    @timthompson2578 Год назад

    Lawrence LT Tolman - You must have really liked the red 88 k1500 that was build on trucks tv show. it seems to be almost exact copy to your orange peel COPO truck. I like them both. I had an 95 GMC JIMMY that was AWD and I think the next truck is going to be an AWD truck. I already have a 4l80e from a van, rebuild and convert to 4WD. I do have to say I like both of these trucks, the red 88k1500 from trucks and your copo truck. I learned alot from you and Ian over the years growing up watching on the weekends. Great Job. Keep It Up. Thank you for showing what can be done.

    • @LawrenceTolman
      @LawrenceTolman  Год назад

      Oh yea, I did love the awd red Chevy we built on the show, so much that I needed to own one for myself for a while. Glad you enjoyed watching it!

  • @henrybrundage7186
    @henrybrundage7186 2 года назад

    You make it look so easy my son tried to do a transmission swap in a 2000 Tahoe and completely missed but he learned that mechanic work is not that easy and can be very frustrating

  • @stevepoythress4678
    @stevepoythress4678 2 года назад

    Kudos on the one-man-build

  • @dano4572
    @dano4572 Год назад

    Thank you for sharing!!! Great build

  • @terrybaltimore1542
    @terrybaltimore1542 2 года назад +2

    Will be interesting to see if the different first gear ratio is going to affect how the truck launches...

    • @LawrenceTolman
      @LawrenceTolman  2 года назад +1

      I know, I'm excited to do another run to do a comparison

  • @jwg34
    @jwg34 2 года назад

    So cool LT, I hope you get some more sponsors and break that 100k mark soon!

  • @justinhiner3782
    @justinhiner3782 2 года назад +1

    Your awesome great content and great tips. I hope you can keep doing this for years too come.

  • @Tommy-B.
    @Tommy-B. 2 года назад

    You’re killing me with those yellow headlights.

    • @LawrenceTolman
      @LawrenceTolman  2 года назад

      I know, I know. they need to be addressed

  • @loganshotrod4x464
    @loganshotrod4x464 2 года назад

    My knee-jerk thought was to run an NP205 instead of that split-case aluminum chain driven t-case. The weight & drag might cause more problems than it solves but I come at transfer cases with an off-road mindset… I like what you’re doing though.

  • @VATION3RD-GEN-X-GARAGE
    @VATION3RD-GEN-X-GARAGE 2 года назад +1

    I've been thinking about pulling the sheetrock out of ceiling in my garage and putting a pole lift in there it'll give me enough room to lift it up High Enough with a vaulted ceiling

  • @surfntchr
    @surfntchr 2 года назад

    You know, all of this would be so much easier if you had a friend helping....Great job filming and working solo though!

  • @garywinkel1831
    @garywinkel1831 2 года назад

    Love to watch you work, LT.

  • @jberkhimer
    @jberkhimer 2 года назад

    That opening line... exactly why Mighty Car Mods tagged their "First.. jack up your car."

  • @sixoaksfarm1556
    @sixoaksfarm1556 2 года назад

    The COPO truck is such a great concept. Im enjoying keeping it up with it.. Well done, sir! Greeting from the farm in S.C>

  • @User8571
    @User8571 2 года назад

    Ouch! I hope that rib heals quickly, brother.

  • @ValarAmstaffs
    @ValarAmstaffs 2 года назад +1

    Great video LT!!

  • @HodgeGarage86
    @HodgeGarage86 2 года назад

    I usually leave the dust shield off the torque converter if it's never going to be going offroad. In my brain it's just holding heat from the converter in. With it off the converter should be able to dissipate heat better and even get a cooling effect from air going under the truck.

    • @LawrenceTolman
      @LawrenceTolman  2 года назад +1

      if it was just a dust cover, I might be convinced to leave it off for hear reasons like you mentioned, but it also acts as a reinforcement between the transmission and the engine on an LS, so I wanted to leave it in place

  • @jimmykingjr5719
    @jimmykingjr5719 2 года назад

    Absolutely the best (not AWD)...lol... awd on RUclips. Keep up the grind LT

  • @stutterpunk9573
    @stutterpunk9573 2 года назад +1

    Pro tip: get a diamond cutoff wheel. They're like $25, they'll last you at least a year, they don't throw that nasty dust into the air, and they're not prone to exploding.

  • @kendanielson7204
    @kendanielson7204 2 года назад

    You know there is a rule that if it's over 75* you MUST have ice cream.... It's a RULE!!

  • @jfeal
    @jfeal 2 года назад

    Never ever wrap a welding cable around you! Love ypur your channel.

  • @danbrayton7031
    @danbrayton7031 2 года назад +2

    You definitely need to do some 1/4 mile runs with nothing changed but the transmission to see how much slower it is. According to everyone on the internet, that 4l80e should be a ton slower than the 4l60e. It would be cool to prove or disprove how the seemingly much worse 1st gear ratio and the claim that it takes a lot more power to spin than a 4l60 affect acceleration.

    • @LawrenceTolman
      @LawrenceTolman  2 года назад +2

      well, we have the data from the "before" runs so we will def. get some data after the trans swap

  • @shtboxyj8406
    @shtboxyj8406 2 года назад

    Remove the trans pan and check the proper fill height for the dipstick.
    Otherwise. Love this build. A definite ripper!

    • @LawrenceTolman
      @LawrenceTolman  2 года назад +1

      yup, we covered that when we had the trans apart for the rebuild/shift kit. my stock mark was an inch low

    • @shtboxyj8406
      @shtboxyj8406 2 года назад

      @@LawrenceTolman gotcha. I skipped that video. Done a few 4l80e already.

  • @keenanboone
    @keenanboone 2 года назад

    Cold beer is in mine awesome truck my good man

  • @richardkicklighter8280
    @richardkicklighter8280 2 года назад

    Looks great. Take care of yourself.

  • @Jaribm
    @Jaribm 2 года назад

    Strongest 4 speed gm built. Idk how many passes I have on my stock rebuilt 4l80e but on 9psi something snapped thinking input shaft 😂

    • @shadowopsairman1583
      @shadowopsairman1583 2 года назад

      Read up on the specs of each, they arent far apart in torque, best to always build up any transmission when going beyond stock.
      60 means up to 6000 gvwr, 80 is 8000 gvwr

  • @smilespergallon1989
    @smilespergallon1989 2 года назад

    When you get a ford guy to watch GM dominant content, you know its good. Still think you should do a mild build on the Toyota and give it away and get you over your goal of 100k subs

  • @sgtmiki_
    @sgtmiki_ 2 года назад

    I always test spray, then flip the can upside down and clear the nossel when I'm done.

  • @richbon9904
    @richbon9904 2 года назад

    My go to is the GM turbo 400 and NP205 with fixed yokes

  • @peterjacobs6290
    @peterjacobs6290 2 года назад

    I have a Pro Charged AWD Silverado SS. 402 stroker, water meth boost juice. The old “built tranny” 4l65 let go. My tranny shop Ultimate Transmission in Boise said since I’m not drag racing much the 4l65 billet everything/ triple disc TC was the way to go even though I really wanted the 4l80 swap to take it up a notch in badass. The tranny shop said the lighter tranny was much less weight to spin and it would be noticeably faster. So far so good. I have had it 3 months. It went 11.99 at Firebird raceway at 2700 ft on a 85 degree day so I’m happy. Not saying the 4l80 swap is a bad move just a data point to provide. Dave at Ultimate Transmission in. Boise is the guy to talk to for more info.

    • @LawrenceTolman
      @LawrenceTolman  2 года назад

      great info there! I thought about doing a built 4L60 on this one, but had heard so many hit-or-miss stories about some built 60e surviving, and some lasting forever.

  • @BADD400
    @BADD400 2 года назад

    Great video LT

  • @Anthony_Pell
    @Anthony_Pell 2 года назад +1

    Another great video. 👍

  • @EricErnst
    @EricErnst 2 года назад

    I wear hearing protection all of the time. I have tinnitus (ringing) in both ears from when I was young and dumb. Don't let anyone shame you into going without. It's not their hearing that's on the line. Sane goes for safety glasses. You only have 2 eyes. Instead of sunglasses, I wear safety glasses nearly any time I walk out the door at home. If they're not on my eyes, they're on top of my head. I've always got them handy.

  • @brianhickerson5
    @brianhickerson5 2 года назад

    Love the details

  • @jakewade7388
    @jakewade7388 2 года назад +2

    Please show what wiring changes need to be done when swapping from a 60 to a 80.

    • @LawrenceTolman
      @LawrenceTolman  2 года назад +5

      yup, plan on doing that in one of the next videos

  • @hugieflhr03
    @hugieflhr03 2 года назад

    4L85E I believe was the strongest 4 speed as the extra planetary gears and all associated gears were straight cut instead of helical cut gears.

    • @LawrenceTolman
      @LawrenceTolman  2 года назад +1

      fair point, but since its still basically a 4L80, I kind-of considered them one in the same.

  • @AndyR1982
    @AndyR1982 2 года назад

    May just have popped a rib out of place, ive done that leaning over stuff. Got to love aging...

  • @prevost8686
    @prevost8686 2 года назад +2

    I’m 54 and I used to work on the floor replacing transmissions and doing engines. Now I’m in daily constant pain and see a neurologist every month that I live. If you’ve got to sell something to buy yourself a lift do it. You won’t regret it when you are my age. Not preaching to you. Just hate for anyone to have to go through what I am.

    • @hugieflhr03
      @hugieflhr03 2 года назад

      I’m 54 also and LT will know what we mean soon! We can do it but we really don’t want too! LOL

  • @deejay5411
    @deejay5411 2 года назад +2

    Love the content keep it coming

  • @alexduke5402
    @alexduke5402 2 года назад

    I just did a 4l80 swap on my 02. i strongly dislike transmission swaps. The trans swap was a success i swapped in the 2500 radiator with a summit racing fan trans cooler. The 3 trans tunes i loaded seen really lazy shifting. It works good if i drive like a Grandma but getting in it, it takes way too long to shift.

  • @dbrandon4528
    @dbrandon4528 2 года назад

    Awesome job

  • @trophbrwntrouthunter
    @trophbrwntrouthunter 2 года назад

    That looked like a nestle crunch cone. I also, am a man that appreciates his ice cream. 😂😂😂

  • @fredproctor6973
    @fredproctor6973 2 года назад

    Wrenching on cars isn't fun when you're not injured. It's all part of the fun. Lol

  • @tihspidtherekciltilc5469
    @tihspidtherekciltilc5469 2 года назад +2

    I have both tinnitus and carpal tunnel syndrome on both sides and it is no fun at all. I waited too long to get the carpal release surgery in both wrists and because of that my gripping strength is gone. Better to look goofy or whatever than be an idiot like myself. I'm only 52 and need three more surgeries which includes the other hip replacement which is bad genetics with a life of hard work and harder play so take care of yourselves as it can be as quick as waking up in excruciating pain that only goes away with the help of a surgeon.
    My apologies for the book but this is a serious subject. Peace

  • @rickcotter8275
    @rickcotter8275 2 года назад +1

    I enjoy your channel because you do real work, not a bunch of bull s%it.

  • @FordRanchero289
    @FordRanchero289 2 года назад

    4:43
    4T65E: *menacing laughter*

  • @codykubu7355
    @codykubu7355 2 года назад

    I watch for the ice cream! Lol. Keep the videos coming. Love them. Your inspiriting me to build my 2wd suburban! Lol

  • @dano4572
    @dano4572 Год назад

    Beautiful!!!!

  • @Funtimes670
    @Funtimes670 2 года назад +1

    If you ran the longer bolts for the shift linkage down and put the nuts on bottom wouldn’t that make it easier for trans maintenance in the future?

    • @LawrenceTolman
      @LawrenceTolman  2 года назад

      maybe, but I think I'd have to remove the shift bracket either way to drop the pan, so it wouldn't make a huge difference I think...

  • @casualobserver620
    @casualobserver620 2 года назад

    Using the first edition 4L80 make connecting the cooler lines less of a challenge.
    Oh by the way, the worst transmission ever was the TH200 installed in full size G.M. vehicles.
    The original application of the TH200 was for the Chevrolet (Isuzu) Luv truck. Small truck, light weight.

  • @HDisNotSmart
    @HDisNotSmart 2 года назад

    Thank you for wearing hearing protection. Be a great role model, and protect yourself concurrently.

  • @chandlerlofton6536
    @chandlerlofton6536 2 года назад

    I think I’m going to try those motor mounts. I just got my 408 dropped in my regular cab and my headers are making contact with the floor under hard acceleration. It sounds terrible! Maybe the stiffer mounts will fix it.

    • @LawrenceTolman
      @LawrenceTolman  2 года назад +1

      They def hood the engine in place better than stock

  • @janetdanner9706
    @janetdanner9706 2 года назад

    Great job.

  • @justinferrall9601
    @justinferrall9601 2 года назад

    I’m 23, and I always wear hearing protection when hammering or using grinders, as well as safety glasses. I don’t want to be deaf and blind at 50 lol.

  • @velociranger7891
    @velociranger7891 2 года назад

    It’d be cool to see you do a burnout like ken did in the Hoonicorn, just to prove it’s awd lol. Plus, the views

  • @ventura455
    @ventura455 2 года назад

    I feel horrible watching you do all that work. Wish I was there to help!

  • @DennyC1500Racing
    @DennyC1500Racing 2 года назад

    LT: "You should wear hearing protection!"
    My ears: "Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....."
    #tinnitus

  • @brianbird3756
    @brianbird3756 2 года назад

    My hearing loss came from stereos, guns, water brakes on the kitty hawk, concrete saws, and hilti guns.

  • @LawrenceTolman
    @LawrenceTolman  2 года назад

    place your bets on the 60 foot and 0-60 changes from the 80e swap. It has a taller first gear, but now a better converter... will they cancel each other out? or, do we lose a little bit off the line?

    • @thebigv8644
      @thebigv8644 2 года назад

      Add a 100 shot to help get you off the line then cut it at 60foot or the 330?

    • @AndyR1982
      @AndyR1982 2 года назад

      I think the 60 foot MAY change some, but the 0-60 stays close to the same. The converter will probably help the whole 1/4 plus with the triple disc you can lock it up at the big end if ypu need a few more rpm, instead of going to 4th