I am an enthusiastic hobby machinist. I've never had the benefit of personal instruction in the machine shop. Everything I know about machining comes from RUclips, books, magazines and similar sources. Of course experience is the world's best (and sometimes harshest) teacher. I certainly didn't know what I didn't know on this one. Luckily, at least some of the RUclips creators are true experts, with you being a prime example. Thank you so much for this, and all your efforts to put a dent in my ignorance.
Absolutely right! However, it's not the center, it's the jaws. We (retired from GTD) machine the entire body, including the center. At this point everything is concentric. The second OP is to drill, then saw the front to create the jaws. This is where the concentricity breaks down. The next OP is to spring temper the jaws, which causes the jaws go out of whack. This is where the real issue occurs. In theory, the cap is supposed to bring everything back into alignment. However, between the burrs from the saw cuts, and the slop between the threads in the cap and body, it doesn't allow the cap to pull everything back into alignment. Some brands are better than others, but as you state, bad idea!
Yeah na. I'd go for lil ER 11 Collets and turn it in one go, head upside down, parting last. Almost. Dunno yet. It's late lol. But that's the inspiration I got from this.
That's what it looked like to me, too. It looked like a banana, more wiggle in the middle than back at the end. If the misalignment was caused by a lack of a positive centre at the rear of the tap handle, that's where there should have been the most movement? It also seems like something that could be more easily shown by chucking the tap handle into the lathe and reading off the runout of the OD vs ID...? Disclaimer: absolutely *not* a machinist, but I reckon I can troubleshoot and interpret stuff pretty logically. The logic he's describing doesn't seem to match the results he's displaying here. Disclaimer on the disclaimer: It seems like it'd be a pretty good idea to validate your tap follower and not just assume it has a precise centre, just on principle. That's absolutely a good point he's raising.
Damn it Joe ! I been doing this for years > down to #4-40 > haven't seemed to have a problem. But ur demo valid > shocked to see the tap run out that bad . Ya got me thinking. BTW, you & Mr Pete > best vids here on machine work
I've been a maintenance machinist/mechanic for 40 years, and I have never used a T handle tap wrench in a lathe or mill. It never even occurred to me. Just put a drill chuck in the tailstock / spindle, grab the tap hand tight, and send it in at low speed. I have tapped hundreds if not thousands of holes using this method and I've NEVER broken a tap. I can hear the hate coming already. "4 flute taps are hand taps!" Yes. You can use this method to get them started, then switch to a dead center to support the tap and use a tap wrench (NOT T handle) to finish. Or if the tap is large enough, I just use an adjustable wrench. As long as the center is in the guide hole at the back of the tap, you're good. "Gun taps will fill the bottom of the hole with chips!" Also true. But you can back it out and clean out the chips if the hole isn't deep enough. I've used this method down to #4-40. Never had a problem.
Only problem is taps are hard and it slowly destroys drill chuck jaws.Collets are much better for holding taps.Most of the time i just spin the spindle or lathe chuck by hand (tailstock must be free ,not locked down).Its good enough for start Not a cnc speed of taping but it gets job done.
Well, well teach. I have never used the lathe as a tap driver. A tap held in the tailstock held by a drill chuck, yes. I have seen the physical dammage caused by power tapping has removed and dammaged man a hand so I just don't do it. The time saved isn't enough to worry about. Starting a tap, the right long taper to start and a gentle touch for me works just fine. I am a patient fellow by nature, I have always thought machinists were all like that are we not, LOL. Over the 45+ years of machining I can count on my hands how many taps I have broken and they we ALWAYS from alighnment issues. Keep em straight and be patient and enjoy the thing we love to do best. Thanks a bunch Texas. Great post and a bit of schooling today too. Thanks eh.
Interesting video and you made some very good points but the biggest point you made is that most tap handles are junk. Actually all tap handle to some degree are junk... just a bad design. With this being said, unless you are using a tap under a 6-32 tap the likelihood of breaking a tap is very slim and to a very large degree the tap will align itself. You can verify this by tapping with a wobbly handle, remove the wrench and turn the lathe on. The wobble will be very minimal. I have broke my fair share of taps but so far I have never broken one that is guided from the back of the handle unless the handle slip out of the guide. I made a tap wrench with a tube on the back that slips over a 3/8 countersink to eliminate this problem.
The Starrett chuck type (T handle) tap holders are beautifully made and have a separate, spring-loaded jaw assembly. (Similar to the chuck in an old woodworking brace.) This gives them a large size range and a good grip in my experience. However it is the source of their run-out. The chuck type tap holders that used to be made by Eclipse (James Neill) and Moore and Wright in the UK have a cheaper construction where the body of the holder itself is split to form a collet. This limits the size range of each holder and I don't feel they grip the square on the tap quite as firmly as the Starrett type, but it does eliminate the run-out you illustrated so well. Another point is that some taps don't have a centre hole or a cone at the square end. (I guess you could modify these by hard turning or grinding your own cone on them.) Thanks for the advanced insights and tips that no-one else has seemed to come up with.
I was going to say (before Joe kind of pointed it out) that the concentricity error is not (necessarily) in the centre at the end of the T-handle but where the chuck holds the tap. I've got some beautifully made (looks wise) chucking T-handle chucks and literally nothing is concentric with anything....so at least Starrett get more points than those!
I used to just use the drill chuck to hold the tap. Then turn the lathe chuck by hand just to get it started straight a few threads, then finish by hand or with small threads just leave the tailstock unlocked and turn the lathe chuck by hand.
Totally agree, but lots of my taps don't have a conical point or a conical centre. I suppose I could grind a male centre on the end though. I've always blamed the split jaws on the tee tap handles. They are rarely the same dimension as the square on the end of the tap, so they pinch just on one end or the other. Regards, Preso
You're right about the centers being off, but it's sometimes on cheap wrenches, the jaw faces are not square. I made my own, and used them with centers in lathes, vertical mills, radial arm drills, for more than 60 years, and produced nice, square holes, every time. A long time ago, I started hating tapping, without a lail support.
Joe, great video as always. I do a lot of threading with small sized taps for astronomical telescopes, mounts, and cameras so breaking one is always a risk and can be disastrous. One thing many don't realize is taps come in different types. The standard most common type has a taper to the thread cutters so it can be aligned somewhat as you start the operation. There are also bottom threading types that are designed to thread far down into a blind hole (one that doesn't go completely through the material) They have very minimal starting taper.You NEVER should start with that one. The other type has a much longer taper to help perfectly align the tap and those are the one you should start with to ensure your tap is perfectly aligned with the hole especially on small tap sizes. I buy my taps in the sets that include all three types for each thread size. I am now 77 years old but learned this from my teacher in a gunsmithing class 60 years ago. I had spent hours machining a bench rest rifle barrel and action that was blued and only thing left was to drill and tap for the scope mount. I was terrified all that work would be destroyed with a broken small tap. My instructor showed me his tricks and it was completed perfectly. The most critical thing is the start of the tapping operation... make sure the hole and tap are absolutely aligned. Also take the time to back the tap out several times to clean out all the bits of metal cuttings. It is tempting to get lazy and try to power the tap through when it gets a bit tight due to chip jamming. That is when things go south
Thanks for the advice Joe. I'll no longer do that anymore. I normally start the tap in the drill chuck and feed in into the part to get it started, then finish off with a T handle wrench, sprung loaded. I'll be careful what I'm doing from now on. I, like some of the other comments on here have tought myself how to machine parts so I'm loving your channel and the advice you give out. It is appreciated.
I made a lot of small stuff in my day, and used a lot of small taps. Broke quite a few and at some point noticed this same problem. It's much worse on tap handles labeled "General" than on ones from Starrett or other quality brands. I noticed another thing too. Take that tap handle apart. Look inside the part that is like a collet. Notice that it has more than four flats. Four at the tip and then four more further inside. Place the tap far enough inside that the inner four flats drive it and the outer four flats bear on the cylindrical part of the shank. Note how much more concentric it runs. This is only for taps that fit up inside like that but it definitely helps. Also, you can remake the main body of a cheap tap wrench much better if you chuck it in a four jaw and redo the "center" that it has for the tap guide to run in. Thanks Joe!
Absolutely agree! I ruined a small valve body for a high-pressure Ingersoll Rand compressor that took me 6 hours to machine " Im just a beginner " because i used a T handle that was a mile off. The center screw threads were off angle, and I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong. My old machinists friend set me straight. And greatings from McMurdo Station Antarctica. Home Houston Texas 😊
Thanks Joe! I observed this phenomenon when tapping on my old drill press and blamed the drill press. After that I bought a hand tapping machine and never went back to using a tap guide in the drill press-even when I bought a new one. On my lathe I just used the drill chuck in the tail stock to start it then switched to a tap handle to finish.
Thanks for this video, I run a 5 axis mill that doesn't have a locating spindle, so no canned cycle, no tapping function. So often we use a spring loaded centre on the spindle to locate tapped holes on complex angles on parts, the issue is when we go below M8 we have to resort to the tapping handle with a centre, which has resulted in many poor threads and broken taps. Your method is so simple but will save us so much time and $, thanks.
The hole at the back is not the main problem - the two jaws holding the tap and the cone squeezing the jaws together are. There is no mechanism in the design of this type of tap holder to align the jaws to the axis of the holder. The holder is designed to be held by rather flexible “clamp” (human hand) that compensates for the misalignment. Machine tools do not have that flexibility and hence the problem.
I’ve noticed this same problem but I think it’s caused by the crappy jaws in the end of the tap handle. You can see the tap is held crooked in your close up. I have a very high quality tap handle that looks like it was made by Albrecht and it doesn’t have this problem
Joe ~ I've been tapping a lot of small holes in expensive stainless parts. I can't count how many taps I've been breaking off in blind holes, ruining the parts. I've been using taps a couple sizes larger than the 75% thread recommendation to get around the problem, but it's still pretty scary. The info you shared I'm betting is 100% of my problem! I'll check it out today in the shop but this was a terrific bit of information! Thanks.
Excellent. Good luck. Another gem is not to over power the tap with a giant drive handle. The smaller the tap, the smaller the handle. You'll get much better feel.
THANK YOU! After getting away with this for many years, you have shown me the light and the error of my ways. I had no idea that there was a second end on the spring loaded tap guide.
Excellent tip, I never knew that a T-handle would have so much runout. I also never knew that those tap followers had a concave end on them, I'll have to tear mine apart and see. Thanks, Joe.
That's a great tip. I'm guilty of doing that with smaller taps and a T-handle wrench. Time to make a proper tap follower and wrench similar to your home made version. Excellent tip. Small taps are a shockingly high price here in NZ!!!
Joe is 100% correct(again). I always thought my Starrett tap handles were concentric when tapping a small thread, But after watching this video and doing some runout tests it seems that I was getting a 0.030" runout !!! So now I start the tap with the reversed-ended spring holder and then I use the tap handle. Thanks again Joe for saving my taps for any future potential breakage !!
It has always made me smile watching certain RUclips apprentices run a tap in this way while the tap spins off centre. For small taps I made and use something like your sensitive drilling setup. It's how a manual tapping fixture works anyway.
Just put the tap in the tail stock chuck, close the jaws so that they are not tight enough to stop the tap rotating, and use your handle. I've been doing it that way for over 50 years. I don't break taps.
@@joepie221 You grip the shank or the end of the thread ( at the square end ) with the same screw on handle. I use a small 2 piece tap wrench that does the same job. On taps over 6mm/1/4" I grind a flat on the shank, because the handle/wrench tends to slip on that smooth shank, because of the torque required. So you only have as much shank as necessary for accuracy in the chuck jaws. Make my own miniature tap wrenches, and they tighten with 2 Allen screws. They grip REALLY tightly.
Hi Joe I use only spiral flute taps and hold these in the tailstock chuck. Don't lock the tailstock and present the tap to the workpiece. Select the lowest speed. While holding the jog button, pull the tailstock into workpiece until the tap is fully engaged. The tap will pull itself into the job. After the final depth is reached just reverse the chuck. Apply a small pull-out force to the tailstock before the tap emmerges. Cheers
Good advice as always Joe...... Tap wrenches vary quite a bit..... I have a little "Eclipse" one that I have owned for over 50 years and it runs true to less than .002", but the others I have are not that accurate. I must make a tap follower..... I often use a tailstock centre to start a tap, turning by hand and keeping the pressure on with the hand wheel at the same time. It works, but needs care, so a decent tap follower is on my 'to do' list... 🙂
Hi Joe I use spiral flute machine traps and grip the tap directly in the tailstock chuck. Don't lock the tailstock down (let it free float) and present the tap to the job. Select a low speed (say 45 rpm) and use the 'jog' push button. Push the tailstock into the job until the tap engages. Once engaged the tap will pull the tailstock toward the job. Once the correct depth is reached, just reverse the chuck direction. This method is quicker and keeps everything aligned.
Keep the tailstock unlocked and gently crank the handwheel once the tap engages. the tailstock will either stay still or push slightly away if your rotation is almost perfect.
I'm glad others are learning this. I have tried to explain this to others, and without real time to explain in the shop atmosphere do to production it was difficult. It's amazing how some tools aren't applied correctly. Thanks to Joe Pie it's now out in the world. I learned this the hard way messing up on a part. Also a tapping block is a good thing to make to get the tap started.
You can buy better machined T tap style wrenches that are made specifically for doing what you just done. Tbh it depends on the application, hand tap, machine t tap, machine tap holder, machine tap joes method that just elimenates problems, or depending on the quality and class of thread macine cut the thread. As long as you know the quality of your work and the quality required you can then apply it to the task.
@@gregoryhouck5738 to be fair, he highlighted a potential issue in your own quality control, and he got to make a wee video in doing so. Im all in favour of openess of knowlede and skills for all.
Even a good quality tap handle can have this problem. It all has to do with the short length of engagement of the tap end and the one sided closure design of the handle jaws. The handle used here was made in the USA and is superior quality to most handles its size.
You are so full of it Joe. "It" being valuable information learned over a lifetime of experience. Thank you very much for taking the time and putting in the effort to share such knowledge with the rest of us. I truly appreciate it!
Thank-you! Great information I didn't know. And you have a gift for explaining AND demonstrating the point. God bless you. Your (and all) great gifts are indeed from the Lord.
That is cool. Your set up bypasses all the tolerance stack up compared to the "normal" set up. It's funny how in machining you can have process issues that you just kind of put up with for years, then someone shows you a fix and it's so simple! I think we get stuck in our ways. That is going in my bag of tricks, thanks!
Hey Joe, Thanks for all your videos. I've learned a lot from you and a few other RUclipsrs. Actually, I am not a machinest. My degree is in Electronics Engineering Technology. But, I used to love spending as much time in the machine shop as posible, before retirement on disability in 2007. I just turned 74 and am now working in my little shop doing busy work. I can now fix, repiar, build and design most anything that the community brings into my shop. Moreover, i dont charge for any services. You have been a blessing to me over these years and i thank you sir, for all you have done for me and others.
Thank you very much for taking the time to leave such a great comment. This type of feedback really means a lot to me. Best of luck to you and be careful. BTW...My Father was an electronic engineer. He founded Artisan Controls Corp up in NJ. The company is still going strong today. Stay well.
@TomokosEnterprize Thank you for the comment Brother. I have many maladies, but the one that bothers me most is that I shake so badly that I can hardly hold my calipers to make a measurement, but with perseverance I somehow prevail, lol. I had a good friend years ago, who was a mechanical engineer. He and I worked together on several projects, me doing the electronics control and he doing the mechanical aspects. Joe Pie has several attributes that remind me of him.
@@Philippians4vs4-8 Hi, I have the same old man shaky hands that for me can be a really painful situation as I have found Pouring pure silver to save me from a Mindless atack of 2200F molten Silver. I found doing this highly intense thing to do after losing my wife due to cancer 10 years ago now. Stop by my site if you like. People like us need/despratly need to make things, Repair things and make them better if we can. It is all we ever known. WE have that in us to our last breath. My biggest wory is for the new generation coming to work have the need to do this. We can train a monky to pull the trigger to weld but it can't fabricate. I can't navigate Facebook but I can build an oil rig, LOL.
Good stuff, Joe! Found this out the hard way years ago. Basically used the same methods you demonstrated to discover the runout of the different drivers. Thanks for your time and sharing! 👍😎✌️
I tap most holes by clamping the tap in my Jacobs chuck. Tap only deep enough for good alignment then finish by hand. Yes I know you’re not supposed to do it that way but it’s worked for me for fifty years. Super Chucks are best for this since they grip tighter.
Thank you for the lesson. I am very new to this skill of machining. I appreciate all the tips and tricks I can find. You wouldn't happen to have a video of how you made the small tee handle @ 5:37. I didn't see one on your RUclips channel. It maybe simple to the experienced, but I am certainly not one of those. Cheers. From an Aussie.
In almost all most cases, misalignment like the one shown here is caused by the tip of the tap follower coming to a sharp point allowing the point to contact the bottom of tap wrench center, which prevents the female 60 degree taper on the tap wrench from contacting the male 60 degree taper on the tap follower. If you have a tap follower with a sharp point, grind enough of the point down to prevent it from making contact leading to misalignment problems. Very few if any tap wrenches are center drilled off center enough to affect alignment.
During my Apprenticeship, we were taught that you start true, stay true. I've got Starrett and Greenfield Tap wrench's and they are both good at one thing; cranking taps in and out but they aren't great at starting taps if you depend on the centers in the end. They all run out. I start tapped holes with either tap guides or use a drill chuck, then use the tap wrench after a few turns in. Joe had the benefit of being around good mechanics (Navy yard slang for Machinist)during his formative years and that's what makes the channel informative. There is no substitute for actually working in the shop around experienced men and developing the necessary temperament for the trade. Not everyone is good at this. The YT'ers that actually worked in the trade are very evident.
I stopped using those spring-loaded guides altogether because I could never get the tap to go in straight. I'd assumed that I - an untrained amateur - was just doing it incorrectly. I think that I'll give it a try again without the tap handle.
The spring loaded tap guide in this video is made by Fischer Machine, they are good quality, they are reversible with an inside cone and point. The tap wrench appears to be a Starrett or General hardware. These are known to have misalignment from the "locating" hole at the top to the jaws that hold the tap. It is difficult to make the jaw fit good enough for the centering hole at the top axial concentric due to design of the tap wrench. Greenfield Tap & Die made one piece tape wrenches that were a bit better than these multi piece tap wrenches. Regardless, as noted in Joe's video, best is to get rid of the tap wrench using the tap guide direct on the tap. As the tap gets smaller the tap crowns little tolerance for misalignment. Once you're down past 0-80 or 1mm taps, alignment to the hole is crucial. Only a slight amount of misalignment will bust the tap. Small taps do not need a lot of torque to turn them long as they are sharp and of good quality. It is easy enough to make a knurled knob with two set screws and a hole drilled to fit the tap being used along with a good tap guide and proper machine set up. All this goes a long ways to greatly reduce busted taps and internal threaded holes that are not aligned proper. These seemingly small details are more significant than most realize.
That's some small threads, over thirty years in a machine shop I've only used taps smaller than 4-40 a couple dozen times, just like when you have a drill or endmill that's under .020" things are a bit different, less room for error.
@@phillhuddleston9445 Really depends on what ya working on... Home shop consist of a Mori Seiki MS850 and a Bridgeport as the lathe & mill, Smallest taps in the shop are 1mm and 00-90 (electronics stuff), largest taps are 1-7/8-20 NS (machinery stuff)... This range of taps puts "interesting" demands on machines and tooling and how taps are used.. Small taps and cutting tools do not tolerate misalignment or abuse as they bust off real easy and trying to dig out tiny broken taps or cutting tools out what is being made.. is NO fun at all. That over used adage applies, possible to make tiny parts on larger machine tools, about impossible to make BIG parts on small machine tools..
okay, you have convinced me to make a tap follower and a similar style of tap holder since I regularly make M3 and M4 threads. I'll just copy what I saw here. thanks!
No wonder my threads are loose. I have always gone it this way. I did notice that it was not concentric but didn't think it mattered. I'm not a professional, just do what I personally need to do. And that's why I watch this pro. I learn something every time. Thanks Joe, I will change my ways.
I made a couple of these tapholders inspired from Your old video - they work great! For very small taps I use a shopmade contraption with a small chuck on a 150mm handle with a precise center. Dia is 15mm with knurling, works nicely for small stuff since it is possible to feel the small torque before messing up...
Having noticed the wobble with T handles I switched to ER collet holders for drilling and tapping threads. Taps are of course driven with Joe Pie knock off tap handles. Don’t be afraid to keep the handles small when driving small, fine taps.
@@joepie221 agreed, the first time I saw one of your tiny handles I knew they would be helpful. I do a lot of small tapped holes, odd sizes, and in harder material. I made a couple handles that day and now have several more, including ones for shaped reamers which must be straight and cut to a precise depth. Many of the taps have neither a cone or center hole, which led me to use the ER collet to support the rear. Another Advanced Innovation to the rescue. I’ve had enough bones repaired I’m betting on of your ideas has been in my life before, or will be soon. Arthritis can be brutal I can attest to that.
Great video. I made a spring loaded tap center years ago from stainless and bronze. I didn’t know you could get these with a variety of springs and two different ends. Mine is crude but it works and I have had it for many years. The T handle guides were awkward and wobbly. I used the T-Handle on small taps cuz the handle had the hole. I broke my share of taps until I figured this out the hard way.
I've been tapping with a T-handle and a tap follower every now and then for about 50 years. A good, straight clamping, true running T-handle with a ratchet. Works great, never had any issues even not with M2. However, if the T-handle sucks, then the tapping sucks. My advise would be: Check your tools before buying and using them.
Good demonstration. I made your small tap handle after watching your build video. It’s excellent. My pump centre only has a point. I need to make a double ended tip like yours has.
A number of years ago I made a few sizes of basically knurled knobs with set screws in a center hole to fit small tap shanks. Similar to your small tap handle just a full diameter handle, I later adapted one of these with an ER11 collet holder so no set screws anymore and the tap is held dead center in the knob. Besides the runout I also hate using a tap handle on a mill such as a Bridgeport due to the length... With a chuck, spring center, tap handle, then the tap you most always have to crank the knee way down to fit all that.
I'm sure I fall into the hobbyists category, but I have enjoyed your videos, enough since I found you, that I subscribed awhile back. This one is particularly interesting to me because there have been a few times that I really wanted a special tapped hole, but strangely enough I quit trying after trying to remove the broken off tap from my piece. Thank you for explaining why that happened!!
Much like most I’d imagine , enthusiasts who has learnt by YT and Practice. I’m shocked and yet question answered the moment you showed the “hurricane” effect….mind blown . So that is why so many of ny taps have snapped . Thank you AGAIN! For your wisdom, and I’m Gobsmacked on how many other channels show the method you have proven to not use . Aghhh . The lies !! Hahah 🤝🏽
I am an enthusiastic hobby machinist. I've never had the benefit of personal instruction in the machine shop. Everything I know about machining comes from RUclips, books, magazines and similar sources. Of course experience is the world's best (and sometimes harshest) teacher. I certainly didn't know what I didn't know on this one. Luckily, at least some of the RUclips creators are true experts, with you being a prime example. Thank you so much for this, and all your efforts to put a dent in my ignorance.
You say how I feel also, with such style. Thanks!! I agree with you!
Yup! I agree. I had NO IDEA a tap T handle was not made ‘true’. Great tip.
👍 ! Great tip , surprised that this never occurred to me before, and surprised that I haven’t broken a lot of taps over the years.
@@michaellitzkow8123 me too
Absolutely right! However, it's not the center, it's the jaws. We (retired from GTD) machine the entire body, including the center. At this point everything is concentric. The second OP is to drill, then saw the front to create the jaws. This is where the concentricity breaks down. The next OP is to spring temper the jaws, which causes the jaws go out of whack. This is where the real issue occurs. In theory, the cap is supposed to bring everything back into alignment. However, between the burrs from the saw cuts, and the slop between the threads in the cap and body, it doesn't allow the cap to pull everything back into alignment. Some brands are better than others, but as you state, bad idea!
Yeah na. I'd go for lil ER 11 Collets and turn it in one go, head upside down, parting last. Almost. Dunno yet. It's late lol. But that's the inspiration I got from this.
I don't think I've ever had my mind forcibly changed so quickly. You succeeded at this in only 10 minutes and 39 seconds. Congratulations Joe.
The wobble of the tap as shown was more a result of a bad chuck in the tap holder than the hole at the back of the handle.
That's what it looked like to me, too. It looked like a banana, more wiggle in the middle than back at the end. If the misalignment was caused by a lack of a positive centre at the rear of the tap handle, that's where there should have been the most movement?
It also seems like something that could be more easily shown by chucking the tap handle into the lathe and reading off the runout of the OD vs ID...?
Disclaimer: absolutely *not* a machinist, but I reckon I can troubleshoot and interpret stuff pretty logically. The logic he's describing doesn't seem to match the results he's displaying here.
Disclaimer on the disclaimer: It seems like it'd be a pretty good idea to validate your tap follower and not just assume it has a precise centre, just on principle. That's absolutely a good point he's raising.
Damn it Joe ! I been doing this for years > down to #4-40 > haven't seemed to have a problem. But ur demo valid > shocked to see the tap run out that bad . Ya got me thinking. BTW, you & Mr Pete > best vids here on machine work
Balderdash!
I've been using those T-handles for over 40 years and never thought about the handle being off that much. Thanks for the clearly demonstrated proof.
I'm glad you used non-magnetic aluminum! It doesn't look like people picked up on that!
Still puzzeled about the use of the plastic flim on the demagentizer. Never used it on mine! Lol.
I've been a maintenance machinist/mechanic for 40 years, and I have never used a T handle tap wrench in a lathe or mill. It never even occurred to me. Just put a drill chuck in the tailstock / spindle, grab the tap hand tight, and send it in at low speed. I have tapped hundreds if not thousands of holes using this method and I've NEVER broken a tap. I can hear the hate coming already. "4 flute taps are hand taps!" Yes. You can use this method to get them started, then switch to a dead center to support the tap and use a tap wrench (NOT T handle) to finish. Or if the tap is large enough, I just use an adjustable wrench. As long as the center is in the guide hole at the back of the tap, you're good. "Gun taps will fill the bottom of the hole with chips!" Also true. But you can back it out and clean out the chips if the hole isn't deep enough. I've used this method down to #4-40. Never had a problem.
Only problem is taps are hard and it slowly destroys drill chuck jaws.Collets are much better for holding taps.Most of the time i just spin the spindle or lathe chuck by hand (tailstock must be free ,not locked down).Its good enough for start Not a cnc speed of taping but it gets job done.
It just goes to show no matter how old you are we are always learning, that’s something I didn’t know thanks
Well, well teach. I have never used the lathe as a tap driver. A tap held in the tailstock held by a drill chuck, yes. I have seen the physical dammage caused by power tapping has removed and dammaged man a hand so I just don't do it. The time saved isn't enough to worry about. Starting a tap, the right long taper to start and a gentle touch for me works just fine. I am a patient fellow by nature, I have always thought machinists were all like that are we not, LOL. Over the 45+ years of machining I can count on my hands how many taps I have broken and they we ALWAYS from alighnment issues. Keep em straight and be patient and enjoy the thing we love to do best. Thanks a bunch Texas. Great post and a bit of schooling today too. Thanks eh.
I haf no idea my spring followers were reversable until this video. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience.
I'm one of those guys who didn't now about reversing the pointer on the tapguide. Thanks again, I always learn something watching you stuff
I didn't either
Great to hear!
Interesting video and you made some very good points but the biggest point you made is that most tap handles are junk. Actually all tap handle to some degree are junk... just a bad design. With this being said, unless you are using a tap under a 6-32 tap the likelihood of breaking a tap is very slim and to a very large degree the tap will align itself. You can verify this by tapping with a wobbly handle, remove the wrench and turn the lathe on. The wobble will be very minimal. I have broke my fair share of taps but so far I have never broken one that is guided from the back of the handle unless the handle slip out of the guide. I made a tap wrench with a tube on the back that slips over a 3/8 countersink to eliminate this problem.
The Starrett chuck type (T handle) tap holders are beautifully made and have a separate, spring-loaded jaw assembly. (Similar to the chuck in an old woodworking brace.) This gives them a large size range and a good grip in my experience. However it is the source of their run-out. The chuck type tap holders that used to be made by Eclipse (James Neill) and Moore and Wright in the UK have a cheaper construction where the body of the holder itself is split to form a collet. This limits the size range of each holder and I don't feel they grip the square on the tap quite as firmly as the Starrett type, but it does eliminate the run-out you illustrated so well. Another point is that some taps don't have a centre hole or a cone at the square end. (I guess you could modify these by hard turning or grinding your own cone on them.) Thanks for the advanced insights and tips that no-one else has seemed to come up with.
I was going to say (before Joe kind of pointed it out) that the concentricity error is not (necessarily) in the centre at the end of the T-handle but where the chuck holds the tap. I've got some beautifully made (looks wise) chucking T-handle chucks and literally nothing is concentric with anything....so at least Starrett get more points than those!
I like your friend' saying: "It's impossible to know what you don't know" - that keeps us learning all the time without challenging the ego.
I used to just use the drill chuck to hold the tap. Then turn the lathe chuck by hand just to get it started straight a few threads, then finish by hand or with small threads just leave the tailstock unlocked and turn the lathe chuck by hand.
Totally agree, but lots of my taps don't have a conical point or a conical centre. I suppose I could grind a male centre on the end though. I've always blamed the split jaws on the tee tap handles. They are rarely the same dimension as the square on the end of the tap, so they pinch just on one end or the other.
Regards, Preso
Agree 100% Mark 👍
Robert
You're right about the centers being off, but it's sometimes on cheap wrenches, the jaw faces are not square. I made my own, and used them with centers in lathes, vertical mills, radial arm drills, for more than 60 years, and produced nice, square holes, every time. A long time ago, I started hating tapping, without a lail support.
Every time I watch one of your videos I learn something new. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Joe, great video as always. I do a lot of threading with small sized taps for astronomical telescopes, mounts, and cameras so breaking one is always a risk and can be disastrous. One thing many don't realize is taps come in different types. The standard most common type has a taper to the thread cutters so it can be aligned somewhat as you start the operation. There are also bottom threading types that are designed to thread far down into a blind hole (one that doesn't go completely through the material) They have very minimal starting taper.You NEVER should start with that one. The other type has a much longer taper to help perfectly align the tap and those are the one you should start with to ensure your tap is perfectly aligned with the hole especially on small tap sizes. I buy my taps in the sets that include all three types for each thread size. I am now 77 years old but learned this from my teacher in a gunsmithing class 60 years ago. I had spent hours machining a bench rest rifle barrel and action that was blued and only thing left was to drill and tap for the scope mount. I was terrified all that work would be destroyed with a broken small tap. My instructor showed me his tricks and it was completed perfectly. The most critical thing is the start of the tapping operation... make sure the hole and tap are absolutely aligned. Also take the time to back the tap out several times to clean out all the bits of metal cuttings. It is tempting to get lazy and try to power the tap through when it gets a bit tight due to chip jamming. That is when things go south
ruclips.net/video/xzhyXChqEWM/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/ODfBSSuJP6I/видео.html
I definitely noticed that runout, even on a Starrett tap handle. Great video, thanks
Thanks for the advice Joe. I'll no longer do that anymore. I normally start the tap in the drill chuck and feed in into the part to get it started, then finish off with a T handle wrench, sprung loaded.
I'll be careful what I'm doing from now on.
I, like some of the other comments on here have tought myself how to machine parts so I'm loving your channel and the advice you give out. It is appreciated.
... and for the really small taps, use one of Joe's small knurled disk tap drivers between thumb and forefinger. Life savers!
I made a lot of small stuff in my day, and used a lot of small taps. Broke quite a few and at some point noticed this same problem. It's much worse on tap handles labeled "General" than on ones from Starrett or other quality brands. I noticed another thing too. Take that tap handle apart. Look inside the part that is like a collet. Notice that it has more than four flats. Four at the tip and then four more further inside. Place the tap far enough inside that the inner four flats drive it and the outer four flats bear on the cylindrical part of the shank. Note how much more concentric it runs. This is only for taps that fit up inside like that but it definitely helps. Also, you can remake the main body of a cheap tap wrench much better if you chuck it in a four jaw and redo the "center" that it has for the tap guide to run in. Thanks Joe!
Absolutely agree! I ruined a small valve body for a high-pressure Ingersoll Rand compressor that took me 6 hours to machine
" Im just a beginner " because i used a T handle that was a mile off. The center screw threads were off angle, and I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong.
My old machinists friend set me straight. And greatings from McMurdo Station Antarctica. Home Houston Texas 😊
Thanks Joe!
I observed this phenomenon when tapping on my old drill press and blamed the drill press. After that I bought a hand tapping machine and never went back to using a tap guide in the drill press-even when I bought a new one.
On my lathe I just used the drill chuck in the tail stock to start it then switched to a tap handle to finish.
Thanks for this video, I run a 5 axis mill that doesn't have a locating spindle, so no canned cycle, no tapping function. So often we use a spring loaded centre on the spindle to locate tapped holes on complex angles on parts, the issue is when we go below M8 we have to resort to the tapping handle with a centre, which has resulted in many poor threads and broken taps. Your method is so simple but will save us so much time and $, thanks.
Glad it helped
The hole at the back is not the main problem - the two jaws holding the tap and the cone squeezing the jaws together are. There is no mechanism in the design of this type of tap holder to align the jaws to the axis of the holder. The holder is designed to be held by rather flexible “clamp” (human hand) that compensates for the misalignment. Machine tools do not have that flexibility and hence the problem.
Agreed
I’ve noticed this same problem but I think it’s caused by the crappy jaws in the end of the tap handle. You can see the tap is held crooked in your close up. I have a very high quality tap handle that looks like it was made by Albrecht and it doesn’t have this problem
Outstanding video. One should never assume the precision of tooling, without testing. Been there done that.
Charlie
Thanks so much for this !! those pointed tap ends WERE the bane of my existence - I had no idea that was reversible
Joe ~ I've been tapping a lot of small holes in expensive stainless parts. I can't count how many taps I've been breaking off in blind holes, ruining the parts. I've been using taps a couple sizes larger than the 75% thread recommendation to get around the problem, but it's still pretty scary. The info you shared I'm betting is 100% of my problem! I'll check it out today in the shop but this was a terrific bit of information! Thanks.
Excellent. Good luck. Another gem is not to over power the tap with a giant drive handle. The smaller the tap, the smaller the handle. You'll get much better feel.
Thank you Joe. Sometimes a demonstration proves a point. I will stop the practice that you just condemned! I am a new believer.
THANK YOU! After getting away with this for many years, you have shown me the light and the error of my ways. I had no idea that there was a second end on the spring loaded tap guide.
And my learning continues. Never even thought about it before. Thx Joe!
thanks Joe always best tips
Thanks, I always come here for those jewels of advice. Especially for this novice.
I am not a machinist - but I am a hobbyist who's been making parts for many years. I've never seen this addressed before. Thank you!
Excellent tip, I never knew that a T-handle would have so much runout. I also never knew that those tap followers had a concave end on them, I'll have to tear mine apart and see. Thanks, Joe.
I really appreciate all you do and share, thank you so much Joe, Paul in Orlando
That's a great tip. I'm guilty of doing that with smaller taps and a T-handle wrench. Time to make a proper tap follower and wrench similar to your home made version. Excellent tip. Small taps are a shockingly high price here in NZ!!!
Glad it was helpful!
I've definitely done that a lot, I will definitely rethink about doing it in the future! I never realized they ran out so bad!
Joe is 100% correct(again). I always thought my Starrett tap handles were concentric when tapping a small thread, But after watching this video and doing some runout tests it seems that I was getting a 0.030" runout !!! So now I start the tap with the reversed-ended spring holder and then I use the tap handle.
Thanks again Joe for saving my taps for any future potential breakage !!
My pleasure.
Nothing beats a good visual demo - point well made Joe!! :)
It has always made me smile watching certain RUclips apprentices run a tap in this way while the tap spins off centre.
For small taps I made and use something like your sensitive drilling setup. It's how a manual tapping fixture works anyway.
Excelent tip, ur right, hours spent making a little piece and suddenly a tap snaps..... Greetings from Mexico
Brilliant demo. 👍
Just put the tap in the tail stock chuck, close the jaws so that they are not tight enough to stop the tap rotating, and use your handle. I've been doing it that way for over 50 years. I don't break taps.
Once the tap is in the tailstock chuck, the square end is inaccessible. How do you drive it?
@@joepie221 You grip the shank or the end of the thread ( at the square end ) with the same screw on handle. I use a small 2 piece tap wrench that does the same job. On taps over 6mm/1/4" I grind a flat on the shank, because the handle/wrench tends to slip on that smooth shank, because of the torque required. So you only have as much shank as necessary for accuracy in the chuck jaws.
Make my own miniature tap wrenches, and they tighten with 2 Allen screws. They grip REALLY tightly.
Hi Joe I use only spiral flute taps and hold these in the tailstock chuck. Don't lock the tailstock and present the tap to the workpiece. Select the lowest speed. While holding the jog button, pull the tailstock into workpiece until the tap is fully engaged. The tap will pull itself into the job. After the final depth is reached just reverse the chuck. Apply a small pull-out force to the tailstock before the tap emmerges. Cheers
tour expertise is excellent. My practise is now changed thanks to Joe P
Good advice as always Joe......
Tap wrenches vary quite a bit..... I have a little "Eclipse" one that I have owned for over 50 years and it runs true to less than .002", but the others I have are not that accurate. I must make a tap follower..... I often use a tailstock centre to start a tap, turning by hand and keeping the pressure on with the hand wheel at the same time. It works, but needs care, so a decent tap follower is on my 'to do' list... 🙂
Hi Joe I use spiral flute machine traps and grip the tap directly in the tailstock chuck. Don't lock the tailstock down (let it free float) and present the tap to the job. Select a low speed (say 45 rpm) and use the 'jog' push button. Push the tailstock into the job until the tap engages. Once engaged the tap will pull the tailstock toward the job. Once the correct depth is reached, just reverse the chuck direction. This method is quicker and keeps everything aligned.
Keep the tailstock unlocked and gently crank the handwheel once the tap engages. the tailstock will either stay still or push slightly away if your rotation is almost perfect.
I'm glad others are learning this. I have tried to explain this to others, and without real time to explain in the shop atmosphere do to production it was difficult. It's amazing how some tools aren't applied correctly. Thanks to Joe Pie it's now out in the world.
I learned this the hard way messing up on a part. Also a tapping block is a good thing to make to get the tap started.
Things you don't learn at school...
Thanks Joe.
Excellent demonstration Joe.
It doesn't get any clearer than this! Thnx Joe for this excellent presentation. Cheers from The Netherlands, europe
Its obvious once you see it. Thanks for checking in.
I learned something else I didn't know I needed to know. Thanks! My cheap Chinese T handle tap holders are almost unusable anyway.
You can buy better machined T tap style wrenches that are made specifically for doing what you just done. Tbh it depends on the application, hand tap, machine t tap, machine tap holder, machine tap joes method that just elimenates problems, or depending on the quality and class of thread macine cut the thread. As long as you know the quality of your work and the quality required you can then apply it to the task.
My t handle tap wrench has about a thou of runout with the indicator on he tap. His t-handle is junk. Better advice: Keep junk tools out of your shop.
@@gregoryhouck5738 to be fair, he highlighted a potential issue in your own quality control, and he got to make a wee video in doing so. Im all in favour of openess of knowlede and skills for all.
Even a good quality tap handle can have this problem. It all has to do with the short length of engagement of the tap end and the one sided closure design of the handle jaws. The handle used here was made in the USA and is superior quality to most handles its size.
Yup, All you forgot is to add "patience". Are we all not Patient, LOL.
You are so full of it Joe.
"It" being valuable information learned over a lifetime of experience. Thank you very much for taking the time and putting in the effort to share such knowledge with the rest of us. I truly appreciate it!
Thank-you! Great information I didn't know. And you have a gift for explaining AND demonstrating the point. God bless you. Your (and all) great gifts are indeed from the Lord.
Bravo Joe PIe, always spot on information, cheers from Florida, Paul
That is cool. Your set up bypasses all the tolerance stack up compared to the "normal" set up. It's funny how in machining you
can have process issues that you just kind of put up with for years, then someone shows you a fix and it's so simple!
I think we get stuck in our ways. That is going in my bag of tricks, thanks!
Brilliant. Something new every time.
I would’ve never known thank you Joe
Hey Joe, Thanks for all your videos. I've learned a lot from you and a few other RUclipsrs. Actually, I am not a machinest. My degree is in Electronics Engineering Technology. But, I used to love spending as much time in the machine shop as posible, before retirement on disability in 2007. I just turned 74 and am now working in my little shop doing busy work. I can now fix, repiar, build and design most anything that the community brings into my shop. Moreover, i dont charge for any services. You have been a blessing to me over these years and i thank you sir, for all you have done for me and others.
Thank you very much for taking the time to leave such a great comment. This type of feedback really means a lot to me. Best of luck to you and be careful. BTW...My Father was an electronic engineer. He founded Artisan Controls Corp up in NJ. The company is still going strong today. Stay well.
Awesome bud. Disabled retired like yourself. We fix,make or repair everything. Where would mankind be without machinists.
@TomokosEnterprize Thank you for the comment Brother. I have many maladies, but the one that bothers me most is that I shake so badly that I can hardly hold my calipers to make a measurement, but with perseverance I somehow prevail, lol. I had a good friend years ago, who was a mechanical engineer. He and I worked together on several projects, me doing the electronics control and he doing the mechanical aspects. Joe Pie has several attributes that remind me of him.
@@Philippians4vs4-8 Hi, I have the same old man shaky hands that for me can be a really painful situation as I have found Pouring pure silver to save me from a Mindless atack of 2200F molten Silver. I found doing this highly intense thing to do after losing my wife due to cancer 10 years ago now. Stop by my site if you like. People like us need/despratly need to make things, Repair things and make them better if we can. It is all we ever known. WE have that in us to our last breath. My biggest wory is for the new generation coming to work have the need to do this. We can train a monky to pull the trigger to weld but it can't fabricate. I can't navigate Facebook but I can build an oil rig, LOL.
Good stuff, Joe! Found this out the hard way years ago. Basically used the same methods you demonstrated to discover the runout of the different drivers. Thanks for your time and sharing! 👍😎✌️
Thank you for this video. You just might have saved me some broken tap grief.
I hope so.
I tap most holes by clamping the tap in my Jacobs chuck. Tap only deep enough for good alignment then finish by hand. Yes I know you’re not supposed to do it that way but it’s worked for me for fifty years. Super Chucks are best for this since they grip tighter.
Thank you for the lesson. I am very new to this skill of machining. I appreciate all the tips and tricks I can find. You wouldn't happen to have a video of how you made the small tee handle @ 5:37. I didn't see one on your RUclips channel. It maybe simple to the experienced, but I am certainly not one of those. Cheers. From an Aussie.
Here ya go. ruclips.net/video/Bl3XcIzcbl4/видео.html Hit that subscribe button. :)
In almost all most cases, misalignment like the one shown here is caused by the tip of the tap follower coming to a sharp point allowing the point to contact the bottom of tap wrench center, which prevents the female 60 degree taper on the tap wrench from contacting the male 60 degree taper on the tap follower. If you have a tap follower with a sharp point, grind enough of the point down to prevent it from making contact leading to misalignment problems. Very few if any tap wrenches are center drilled off center enough to affect alignment.
Joe Pi is Top Shelf! I do use Tee handle for tapping 1/2 13 on non- critical projects. It's fast/easy.
Thank you sir.
As always thank goodness you are there to guide us
During my Apprenticeship, we were taught that you start true, stay true. I've got Starrett and Greenfield Tap wrench's and they are both good at one thing; cranking taps in and out but they aren't great at starting taps if you depend on the centers in the end. They all run out. I start tapped holes with either tap guides or use a drill chuck, then use the tap wrench after a few turns in. Joe had the benefit of being around good mechanics (Navy yard slang for Machinist)during his formative years and that's what makes the channel informative. There is no substitute for actually working in the shop around experienced men and developing the necessary temperament for the trade. Not everyone is good at this. The YT'ers that actually worked in the trade are very evident.
Like using all the tolerance on each dimension of a part and getting bit at the end. My motto...Start tight, end right.
I stopped using those spring-loaded guides altogether because I could never get the tap to go in straight. I'd assumed that I - an untrained amateur - was just doing it incorrectly. I think that I'll give it a try again without the tap handle.
Joe Pie, never disappoints, or fails to educate!! Kudos Joe!!
The spring loaded tap guide in this video is made by Fischer Machine, they are good quality, they are reversible with an inside cone and point. The tap wrench appears to be a Starrett or General hardware. These are known to have misalignment from the "locating" hole at the top to the jaws that hold the tap. It is difficult to make the jaw fit good enough for the centering hole at the top axial concentric due to design of the tap wrench. Greenfield Tap & Die made one piece tape wrenches that were a bit better than these multi piece tap wrenches.
Regardless, as noted in Joe's video, best is to get rid of the tap wrench using the tap guide direct on the tap. As the tap gets smaller the tap crowns little tolerance for misalignment. Once you're down past 0-80 or 1mm taps, alignment to the hole is crucial. Only a slight amount of misalignment will bust the tap. Small taps do not need a lot of torque to turn them long as they are sharp and of good quality. It is easy enough to make a knurled knob with two set screws and a hole drilled to fit the tap being used along with a good tap guide and proper machine set up. All this goes a long ways to greatly reduce busted taps and internal threaded holes that are not aligned proper.
These seemingly small details are more significant than most realize.
That's some small threads, over thirty years in a machine shop I've only used taps smaller than 4-40 a couple dozen times, just like when you have a drill or endmill that's under .020" things are a bit different, less room for error.
@@phillhuddleston9445
Really depends on what ya working on...
Home shop consist of a Mori Seiki MS850 and a Bridgeport as the lathe & mill, Smallest taps in the shop are 1mm and 00-90 (electronics stuff), largest taps are 1-7/8-20 NS (machinery stuff)... This range of taps puts "interesting" demands on machines and tooling and how taps are used.. Small taps and cutting tools do not tolerate misalignment or abuse as they bust off real easy and trying to dig out tiny broken taps or cutting tools out what is being made.. is NO fun at all.
That over used adage applies, possible to make tiny parts on larger machine tools, about impossible to make BIG parts on small machine tools..
okay, you have convinced me to make a tap follower and a similar style of tap holder since I regularly make M3 and M4 threads. I'll just copy what I saw here. thanks!
No wonder my threads are loose. I have always gone it this way. I did notice that it was not concentric but didn't think it mattered. I'm not a professional, just do what I personally need to do. And that's why I watch this pro. I learn something every time.
Thanks Joe, I will change my ways.
I made a couple of these tapholders inspired from Your old video - they work great!
For very small taps I use a shopmade contraption with a small chuck on a 150mm handle with a precise center.
Dia is 15mm with knurling, works nicely for small stuff since it is possible to feel the small torque before messing up...
Having noticed the wobble with T handles I switched to ER collet holders for drilling and tapping threads. Taps are of course driven with Joe Pie knock off tap handles. Don’t be afraid to keep the handles small when driving small, fine taps.
A large handle on a small tap is a recipe for disaster. Agreed...small handle or knob is the way to go.
@@joepie221 agreed, the first time I saw one of your tiny handles I knew they would be helpful. I do a lot of small tapped holes, odd sizes, and in harder material. I made a couple handles that day and now have several more, including ones for shaped reamers which must be straight and cut to a precise depth. Many of the taps have neither a cone or center hole, which led me to use the ER collet to support the rear. Another Advanced Innovation to the rescue. I’ve had enough bones repaired I’m betting on of your ideas has been in my life before, or will be soon. Arthritis can be brutal I can attest to that.
@@takedeadaim8671 I have yet to see Joe lead anyone astray. We are lucky to have him.
@@TomokosEnterprizeAGREED
Amazing! Thanks Joe, I never would have thought that.
Great video. I made a spring loaded tap center years ago from stainless and bronze. I didn’t know you could get these with a variety of springs and two different ends. Mine is crude but it works and I have had it for many years. The T handle guides were awkward and wobbly. I used the T-Handle on small taps cuz the handle had the hole. I broke my share of taps until I figured this out the hard way.
Great tip Joe, thank you!
I've been tapping with a T-handle and a tap follower every now and then for about 50 years. A good, straight clamping, true running T-handle with a ratchet. Works great, never had any issues even not with M2. However, if the T-handle sucks, then the tapping sucks. My advise would be: Check your tools before buying and using them.
Good demonstration. I made your small tap handle after watching your build video. It’s excellent. My pump centre only has a point. I need to make a double ended tip like yours has.
You can take the tee handle out & hold the tap wrench in the chuck , but generally only for a thread deep in a hole . 👍
Thanks for the heads-up - I did not know this.
I always learn something useful from your videos...thanks.
A number of years ago I made a few sizes of basically knurled knobs with set screws in a center hole to fit small tap shanks. Similar to your small tap handle just a full diameter handle, I later adapted one of these with an ER11 collet holder so no set screws anymore and the tap is held dead center in the knob. Besides the runout I also hate using a tap handle on a mill such as a Bridgeport due to the length... With a chuck, spring center, tap handle, then the tap you most always have to crank the knee way down to fit all that.
I'm sure I fall into the hobbyists category, but I have enjoyed your videos, enough since I found you, that I subscribed awhile back. This one is particularly interesting to me because there have been a few times that I really wanted a special tapped hole, but strangely enough I quit trying after trying to remove the broken off tap from my piece.
Thank you for explaining why that happened!!
Joe!! yes you DID make your point!! Thanks
Grear advice Joe,,,,I made one of your mini tap handles some time ago and ALWAYS use it for bottom tapping small threads by hand.
Excellent info. I really had no idea about this.
Up till now I didn't realize the pointy bit on the back of the tap was a concentric centre. An outie instead of an innie. Thank you!
Good little pointer , thanks for sharing some of your well known experiences!
My pleasure!
Thanks Joe. Model Engineer from Australia
thanks for the public service announcement. it is so easy to overlook the small stuff, but it's all about the details. keep up the good work.
Much like most I’d imagine , enthusiasts who has learnt by YT and Practice.
I’m shocked and yet question answered the moment you showed the “hurricane” effect….mind blown . So that is why so many of ny taps have snapped .
Thank you AGAIN! For your wisdom, and I’m
Gobsmacked on how many other channels show the method you have proven to not use .
Aghhh . The lies !! Hahah 🤝🏽
I have a pretty good idea who you are referring to. May have even been the motivation for this video. Who knows?
Thank you again for your simple and extremely useful tips!!
Thanks for reminder, Still need to make the spring loaded tap guide. That small handle has been on my TO-DO list a long time.