@@photonicpizza1466 not quite, it can be 1 in some parts of the math like algebra, and in onther parts of math it can be undefined. anyway this is exceptional, and partialy you are correct.
@@jezus22 "Except in algebra"? Algebra excludes it as well. The limit of 0^x as x→0 is 1, but 0^x by itself is always undefined. Not to mention, in complex algebra, it's also undefined even in terms of limits, as the limit from the imaginary axis is nonexistent.
Always got confused with this, you know, I’m Portuguese and speak Portuguese and we use the long system, but the Brazilians (who also speak Portuguese) use the short system
How do you group orders of magnitude that don't have names with the long system? Like do you say "Dez mil milhão"? That has always seemed so clunky to me
Sannesthesia Wow! In Hungary we use the long system. We have the milliard (milliárd) and so on. It's sometimes confusing because I'm learning English so on lessons I have to use two systems :-D
I always thought until I was "corrected" in Year 8 maths that it was 1 million million = 1 billion 1 billion billion = trillion etc. I call it the longerer system.
When I was at school, I was taught 1 billion = 1 million × 1 million...mind you, that was pre 1974. It makes much more sense as 1 billion is 1 bi-million = 1 million^2 1 trillion is 1 tri-million = 1 million^3 The million is the base unit and the prefix ti indicate power is "merged into it" For the shirt scale it is based on powers of 1 thousand, giving 1 thousand^2 = 1 bi-thousand = 1 bisand 1 thousand^3 = 1 tri-thousand = 1 trisand etc. Totally clears up any possible error in understanding the size of the number (and the number of zeros is obvious from the merged prefix).
There actually is a system, very much like that, proposed by computer scientist Donald Knuth, even though it is based on myriads (10,000). It's called the -yllion system (wikipedia has an article on it) 1 myriad= 10,000 1 myllion = 1 myriad myriads = 1 myriad squared = 100,000,000 (= 10^8) 1 byllion = 1 myllion myllions= 1 myllion squared = 10^16 1 tryllion = 1 byllion byllions= 1 byllion squared = 10 ^32 its chief advantage is that you get a lot more "ooomph" for each new prefix - one centyllion would take you up as far as 10^(2^102) = 10^ (5,070,602,400,912,917,605,986,812,821,404). Its drawback is that names get slightly more confusing. For example 6* 10^56 would become ' six myllion byllion tryllion', not to be confused with 'six tryllion (one) byllion (one) myllion' .
Both the long scale and short scale is a lie when it comes to a TRILLION. A million-billion should just be a million-billion, not a trillion. A trillion is from TRI+billion (tripple-billion, up from 'millions') as 1,000,000,000,000,000,000.
@@ferocentaur8859 Why? It defeats the beautiful logic of the long system and it leaves several gaps in between that could be useful to have names for. You also seem confused, because the number you wrote (18 zeroes) is exactly the number trillion in the long system. A triple billion would be way larger, so either you like the long system or you are mistaken by your own system.
In Germny we use the long system. And when u start to have english classes you're going to be heavy confused that people name numbers in such a different way.
About which point? For my second point, you may notice I say I BELIEVE it originated in Britain, I did not say I was certain. And for the first point I was basing on people whom I know personally, most of whom use the long (correct) system.
The worst thing is when text is translated from English to a language that uses the long system (such as Finnish.) An inattentive/ignorant translator will make an error of three orders of magnitude when translating "billion".
I'm German and I noticed this many years ago while watching American news. the German word "Milliarde" corresponds to the American "Billion" and the German "Billion" corresponds to the American "Trillion."
Svante Sandblom Well, there may be a difference. Where is your Biljoen. In the Netherlands Biljard is 1000 times Biljoen. S in NL o it looks like this. Miljoen x 1000 = Miljard x 1000 = Biljoen x 1000 = Biljard and that is as far as I learned to count at school...
Romania is using the long system as well. 'Million' is 'milion' and 'milliard' is 'miliard'. The billions are not really used, but they are 1000^2. 'Murica is confusing.
Million is a number, and Mega is a unit prefix. And they are not based on power of two : a megameter is a thousand kilometer. There is another prefix for 2^10 : kibi, which is 1024, so a kibibyte is 1024 bytes. Which is different from a kilobyte... That's pretty confusing. Fun fact : if your hard drive says that it has only around 1.9GB left, and you check it's properties, you might see that it has actually 2.0×10^9 bytes. That is not a rounding mistake, it's just that GB are gibi bytes and not giga bytes...
I'll add one more thing. I am from Slovakia and as you know some languages have masculine, feminine and gender neutral nouns and pronouns. Well in Slovakia we use the long system but here we alternate the genders in a way. A million is "milión", which makes it masculine (male) and a milliard is "miliarda". The "a" at the end of "miliarda" makes it feminine. Same goes for all the other ones: milón, miliarda, bilión, biliarda, trilión, triliarda... So from million up it always alternates masculine , feminine , masculine , feminine ....
I'm sorry, but you don't appear to grasp this. He says that their 10^(6n) words are masculine and their 10^(6n + 3) are feminine (for n > 0), not that they have a masculine and feminine word for a millionaire/billionaire/...
I use the "load" system: 1 000 a load 1 000 000 a shit load 1 000 000 000 a fuck load 1 000 000 000 000 a fuck off shit load This system works best for every day speaking, eg. Premiership footballers earn a shit load of money." Or: "the national debt of [country] is a fuck off shit load of dollars"
Although technically, Imperial system is England's system. That's why in my country calls them "English units" even though the U.K. doesn't use it anymore. My classmates even say "British people are just picky and like things fancy" and stuff like that...
@@moondust2365 That's not correct. British people use the imperial system for some things and the metric system for other things, but the metric system definitely predominates, especially in younger generations. It's not at all like the U.S., where the customary units are overwhelmingly used in favor of metric units by most people.
@@theaslam9758 First of all by sticking with the EU the country will have a stronger connection with the other EU members. Also by being part of the EU offers a number of benefits to the english people such as easier travel to the other EU countries.
Being Québécois I would use the long system in French and the short system in English. However I don't ever recall using the words trillion in English or billion in French, because at that point you're either using the tera prefix or just saying exponentials (10 to the 12, etc.).
I remember learning them both. Learning French I remember using the long form only, in English (once I reached high school) we used mostly the short form. Billiards and what not were only really used in specific lessons or by certain teachers. Other than that the short form was mostly adopted. I still here some people use the longer form idea. They’re usually more old fashioned lol.
Wait, so if you find a kindergarten mathematical problem which uses words instead of numbers and says something like: "A farmer goes to the market to sell 1 billion apples. He sells them to 1 thousand different merchants. How many apples does each merchant have?" Does it have two different right aswers for if the kid is used to one system or the other?
Here in Denmark, it is not at all unusual to see American billions mistranslated as "billion". So when seeing the word "billion" in a news item about forreign affairs, you have think about whether "milliard" or "billion" makes most sense in context.
Journalists are the worst... We have the same problem in Latin America, they don't realize they have to transform American billions into thousand millions (or milliards). So you always have to assume they've translated it wrong.
As a Dutch person who was always confused as to why our words to describe these numbers differed fron the English one, I now finally see that my country still enforces the most logical system. Great vid.
In Finnish: 10³ = tuhat 10⁶ = miljoona 10⁹ = miljardi 10¹² = biljoona 10¹⁸ = triljoona Reason why we don't have name for 10¹⁵ is quite simple. Fastest of you probably quessed what name for it should be: biljardi. Problem is that we already use that word when we talk about cue sports. I think using it as name for 10¹⁵ wouldn't be issue because for example we use same word ("kuusi") for number 6 and it is Finnish translation for spruce.
Hey, when the colonies were first formed, metric didn't exist, and when we eventually did try converting to metric, people were too used to it and flipped out. I'm upset too that we didn't switch.
I used to think we should have switched a log time ago, but now I feel that it doesn't really matter because we can (and do) learn both systems side by side, so now it seems unnecessary. Although I admit that going between miles and kilometers is a pain.
It would be a one-time cost though. Compared to the continuous cost of having 2 systems (if you want to trade/collaborate with other countries) and the added complexity of the Imperial system. In canada engeneering companies charge 10-15% more if the work is done in Imperial. Companies in Australia that switched over where saving up to 10% in operating cost each year.
most of the US system is based on powers of two for a lot of conversions like there's 4 fluid ounces toa gill 2 gills to a cup 2 of those to a pint 4 of those to a liquid gallon. 2 of those to a peck. 4 of those to a bushel I think.
I look forward to the day when we avoid all confusion by using standard SI prefixes as we do in computing. So it would be £M1 (1 Megapound = £1,000,000), £G1 (1 Gigapound = £1,000,000,000) etc in the same way that we have 1 Megabyte and 1 Gigabyte etc
Agreed - didn't clock that until after posting and have been ruing it ever since. Still, it's the use of the prefixes that's important. Make sure your annual salary is in computer kilopounds ...
Kris F Yes, that is another thing. I live in the United States, and we are taught scientific notation; standard form is used for different forms of writing functions.
ofcourse it is, a big number such as 100000000000000000000000000000000 has no meaning to a person, cause you cant count the zeroes and just know hat it's big, 10^32 is alot more understandable and takes up less space
I love this! Not sure I ever learned of the long scale before. It makes loads more sense. Fascinated by all of this, including the Greek tidbit at the end. Cheers!
As a Greek, I too was surprised by that nod. And he is absolutely correct. In Greek, it’s εκατομμύριο (εκατό - 100, μυριο - myriad) and δισεκατομμύριο (δις - bi, etc)
I love that he underlined one letter in million, two for billion, three for trillion, four for quadrillion, and quintillion would be five. That means the first five number prefixes each have that number of letters.
The illogicity of the short system is quickly resolved if you consider the exponent as n+1, where n is the corresponding number in the naming convention, ie trillion = 1000^(3+1), billion = 1000^(2+1), etc. Short system is more convenient in that the name endings are consistent (-illion).
English, born 1965, was taught that a billion was, indeed, 1,000,000,000,000. Took me donkeys years to get past us starting to use the US system and it STILL doesn't feel right!
Do you people not think about how this stuff if put in place could f*** up children's educations... Think about it your a young child and you learn a million is 100000 and a billion is 1000000000
In Spanish it goes like this: 10-diez 100-cien 1000-mil 10.000-diez mil 100.000-cien mil 1.000.000-millón 10.000.000-diez millones 100.000.000-cien millones 1.000.000.000-mil millones 10.000.000.000-diez mil millones 100.000.000.000-cien mil millones 1.000.000.000.000-billón It uses the long system. You can clearly see a pattern in the names. It really shocked me and annoyed me when my English teacher told me about the short system. It just doesn’t make sense, it breaks the pattern.
German 10 Zehn 100 Hundert 1.000 Tausend 10.000 Zehn-tausend 100.000 Hundert-Tausend *1.000.000 Eine Million(en)* 10.000.000 Zehn Millionen 100.000.000 Hundert Millionen *1.000.000.000 Eine Milliarde* 10.000.000.000 Zehn Milliarden 100.000.000.000 Hundert Milliarden *1.000.000.000.000 Eine Billion(en)* So it’s basically “MilliONen, MilliARDen, BilliONen, BilliARDen, TrilliONen, TrilliARDen, QuadrilliONen...” (each 1000 “-onen” are one “-arden” :P)
As a Finn, I grew up with the long system; and I *_LOVE_* it. It’s *_THE_* System, for me; always has been; always will be. It just makes so much more sense. 🇫🇮😎👍🏻
+Edward Überfluss (edward-ueberfluss) We in Russia are strange: 10^3 - thouthand/тысяча [tisyacha] 10^6 - million/миллион 10^9 - milliard/миллиард, but if you say billion most of people will understand you as milliard 10^12 - trillion 10^15 - quadrillion etc.
The logic behind the short scale, and what is used to make it not idiotic, is actually 1000x1000 to the power of. So: 1 Billion is 1000x1000^2 1 Trillion is 1000x1000^3 1 Quadrillion is 1000x1000^4 and so on...
+Mateusz Wojtkiewicz That is not the short system. According to your description, Billion in the short system would be 1000x1000 x 1000x1000 = 1000^4 which is Trillion in the short system.
SirCutRy it's ridiculous and the long scale is better in every way... just wanted to share the "logic" behind it since in the video they didn't seem to understand it.
I was born in Israel and moved to the US. when I was young...I remember always being confused and not understanding where the billiard disappeared...now it all makes sense!
you have to keep in mind that that the metric system is a logical advancement of an illogical system ... so, the opposite of the 'murican-numbers-introduction'
There's also another little problem that comes with this language/number gap. There're lots of spanish/english translators that seem to forget that you actually also have to translate math, and the problem is bigger when the words millions, billions and trillions are basically written the same way in both languages so when, for example, they see the word "billonare" they translate it to what sounds correct in spanish, "billonario", an easy translation it seems. But then that word brakes the entire text because the number is massively huge in comparison to it's original form in english and the guy ends up having a net worth of around a $1000000000000 which is an insane number that no human can ever posses. The problem is also persistent in weight and distance measures. I remember being in elementary school and watching a drawing in an astronomy book with the weight of the earth and some other astronomical measures, everything in billions and trillions, i looked at my dad not being able to grasp the quantity of zeros those numbers could have, he looked at me an then told me this really tricky language thing, for a week I had thought the galaxy was a thousand times larger than it is.
While in every day French, "milliard" is a thousand million. But I personally don't think "billion" is often used. I often read "mille milliards" and I'm not talking about the Captain Haddock's swear "Mille milliards de mille sabords" of course.
Eastern Europe here, Romania to be more precise. Had a course in uni on English from an economics pov... we actually had a few hours discussing this exact topic because it's so alien to us.
This video is pretty old, so there are a lot of comments I didn't read. Has anyone mentioned Chinese? They group powers of ten by fours. (In order for the following to make sense, you have to know that there are thousands of homonyms in Chinese that are completely disambiguated by the characters used to write them. See below.) So: 10000^0 = 10^0 = 1 - yi 10^1 = 10 - shi 10^2 = 100 - bai 10^3 = 1000 - qian 10000^1 = 10^4 = 10000 - wan (or yi wan, i.e. one ten-thousand) 10^5 = 100000 - shi wan (ten ten-thousands) 10^6 = 1000000 - bai wan (hundred ten-thousands) 10^7 = 10000000 - qian wan (thousand ten-thousands) 10000^2 = 10^8 = 100000000 - yi [different yi, see above] (one hundred-million) 10^9 = 1000000000 - shi yi (ten hundred-millions) etc. There aren't any words past yi. They just start using standard notation. I've always followed a piece of advice I got from long ago. When discussing large numbers in English with a native Chinese speaker I always use the Chinese words
I'm Greek and I didn't notice the myriad and 100 connection thanks. It also makes perfect sense linguistically at the etymology (as a connection of two words), both in ancient and modern greek variations of the language.
You joke, but I wouldn't be surprised if the first moron to use the short system was some rich douche that wanted to set himself apart from other rich douches and so wanted to be a billionaire instead of a millionaire like all those peasants.
I'm living in Switzerland so when I'm hearing reading english, i just think billion=Millarde, is that don't familiar, in England? I think the long system is simpler. I love your pronunciation of the World Milliard. (yes my english is bad, i know that.)
Denmark uses the long system. Imagine the horror of reading and learning most things in english (short system) and then having to explain it in danish (long system) "there are7 billion people on earth, but not really cause someone couldn't pronouce 'milliard'"
+Lirk “Purps” Ravnsgaard yup, same thing happens to me in spanish, but the spanish speaking world doesn't really uses the world Milliard (Millardo) on a daily basis, we say "there are 7 thousand million people in the world/hay 7 mil millones de personas en el mundo". We use mil millones thats all :P
+supersuato123 exactly in spain millardo is not used, we allways say thousands of millions, and then billion for 10^12. Millardo is only for spanish speaking Americans.
In Chile we use the long system and it's a little confusing for me when I watch series in english, I still don't understand why someone would use the short one... so weird
I never new that a thing like a milliard exists outside of Germany... I always wondered about the difference between higher numbers back when I was younger, thanks for clarifying that :)
I know this varies by country, but to me this makes the most sense: 1,000 = one Thousand 1,000,000 = one Million 1,000,000,000 = one Billion 1,000,000,000,000 = one Trillion Every new "comma" gets a new name.
That's because the commas are put in correlating to powers of one thousand rather than powers of one million, the same would be true if you had a comma every 6 digits instead of every 3 :)
blazednlovinit In that case, saying things like one Thousand would be kind of weird, because there is no comma until 1 million. In the comma per 3 0's system, it's better because in every day life it's not like we need to use billions and stuff like that, and it would just make it harder to read.
Akmed Man Well it would be weird to you, but it wouldn't be "wrong". Plenty of different ways to handle mathematics other than our decimal, zero digit, place value system
Akmed Man For what reason? It's still a base-ten/decimal system so the mathematics is exactly the same, you're literally just moving the comma and calling numbers different names.
I had no idea this was a thing. As a Brit living in the UK and only ever being taught the short form, I never even questioned it, but a lot of what they say makes sense.
In Norway, we use the long system, however, we are de fact bi-lingual, using English a lot, so we kinda get our values wrong when speaking to English speaking people
Even though I've learnt in school that a billion is a thousand million, I prefer the long scale system which was traditionally used in Britain prior to 1974. This is where a billion is a million million, a trillion is a million billion, a quadrillion is a million trillion, etc. I understand that the long scale system may be more cumbersome than the short scale system, but I agree that the long scale system makes more logical sense. The biggest key difference is that in the long system, a vigintillion is bigger than a googol, whereas it's smaller in the short system. The formula for the two systems can be shown here. Short scale system: 10^(3n+3) Long scale system: 10^6n Here is a list of key dictionary numbers in the long scale system: Million - 1e+6 Billion - 1e+12 Trillion - 1e+18 Quadrillion - 1e+24 Quintillion - 1e+30 Sextillion - 1e+36 Septillion - 1e+42 Octillion - 1e+48 Nonillion - 1e+54 Decillion - 1e+60 Googol (for comparison) - 1e+100 Vigintillion - 1e+120 Centillion - 1e+600 Millinillion - 1e+6000 Milli-millinillion - 1e+6000000 Here's an extension to the system based on SI prefixes (this extension is derived from the Epstein system, devised by Louis Epstein): Megillion - 1e+6000000 Gigillion - 1e+6000000000 Terillion - 1e+(6e+12) Petillion - 1e+(6e+15) Exillion - 1e+(6e+18) Zettillion - 1e+(6e+21) Yottillion - 1e+(6e+24) Ronnillion - 1e+(6e+27) Quettillion - 1e+(6e+30) Still quite far from a googolplex, which has one followed by a googol (ten thousand sedecillion; ten duotrigintillion in the short scale) zeroes. A quettillion has a one followed by six quintillion zeroes (six nonillion in the short scale).
I’m australian and we use the short system. I agree that the long system makes more sense, and I actually like milliard and billiard etc. But it just sounds so wrong to me to call it that, I simply cannot wrap my head around it.
My father use to say there were two ways a billion was defined depending on the language. This clears it up. I remember when Canada underwent the metric conversion. I was in grade 2 in 1974..
as someone from Poland, it is really confusing and just annoying I was speaking to my friends about things with super low chances of happening and I told them there was something with a chance of one in one trillion, then remembered that I learnt that in an english youtube video and was like: oh wait we've got a different trillion
In spanish it's: Million = 1,000,000 Milliard = 1,000,000,000 (millardo) thousand million Billion = 1,000,000,000,000 (billón) Billiard = 1,000,000,000,000,000 (billardo)
Anna, no. In russia we use short system, not long system (but word billion is replaced with word milliard). У нас не длинная шкала, а короткая, лишь с исключением, что слово биллион заменено словом миллиард.
I am German and we use the long system, I then learned to count in French, a language that honestly needs to sort out the naming of their numbers! Then I was blessed in school learning to count in the English way, which actually added quite a lot of confusion because when you look up 'Milliarde', the German word for 10^9, you get two translations 'billion' and 'milliard'.... well and then I learned Korean which instead of using any of those systems has a system where the numbers receive new names for every multiplicative of 10.000.... Im planning on learning more languages and it would really make things easier if everyone could just sign a convention already that from now on in any place on earth things are counted in 10 to the power of...
I’ve grown up in English speaking Canada and knew nothing of the long system until now and now I’m pissed we don’t use it. This makes so much more sense
I was brought up on the short system, and learned of the long system while still in school. And like James, I find the latter more logical, but will stick to the former. If, however, there were a move on to switch to the long system, I would support that.
***** me and all my friends use metric in Roleplay and writing. We use meters instead of yards as well, cm for heights and etc. ^0^ I prefer the short system but would gladly change to the long system for unity in langauge. But then... what about Asia?
MilesTraveler That's pretty funny :P Because in Dungeons and Dragons we actually use the imperial system. While we live in the Netherlands and normally use metric xD
Kees Wesselink I understand; miles and stones just feel more romantic than kilometres and kilograms in my mind, also better for immersion in fantasy settings.
Since i learnt about powers when i was a kid, millions milliards etc stopped being natural for me. I just think in powers now, and have to translate it into the words.
You missed thousand in long system, is it then oneard? :-) Just kidding, we use long system in Finland too, "miljardi" being thousand millions. Though, wouldn't the most logical system be short system that is fixed one step down. Especially since "mill" in million is actually referring to thousand. 1 = One = (1000)^0 1 000 = Million = (1000)^1 1 000 000 = Billion = (1000)^2 1 000 000 000 = Trillion = (1000)^3 ...
Even in the United States, "milliard" is still used on a limited basis. Specifically, in financial trading. My first job in banking was doing treasury trade support. The funds traders would call us up and tell us to move funds virtually on the computer as they made real time trades. For trades of a billion, they would call it a "yard", shorthand for a milliard. So I would get a call like "500 million to BOA, a yard to Citizens, 3 yards to Chase!"..."ok confirmed!".
What they should have done is put prefixes to million, like the way computers do it. kilomillion, megamillion, gigamillion, teramillion. There is no dispute in k/m/g/t of their meaning, and keep the long system without reusing words, therefore there would be no confusion, for instance 1 megamillion = 1 billion
The reason the UK switched to the short system is that everybody else (outside the Anglo-Saxon world) uses the long system. They always have to do things differently (no metric system, driving on the left side), sabotaging standardization & internationalization.
In Norway we use the long system, the words Million and Milliard are really common, not so much Billion and Billiard.. When I was younger I was really confused why what we call Milliard was called Billion in english, tho we also have the word Billion, but it wasn't the same thing as in english. I also didn't really know the difference between Billion and Billiard, I would sometimes think they were the same number. This video suddenly makes sence of it all!
When I'm speaking English I always think of a billion as 10^9. But in my local language of Dutch 10^9 is called 'Miljard' and we also have 'Biljoen' which is 10^12
I thought this video was gonna be about how a billion is bigger than you think it is using crazy examples, but I ended up learning about this "long system" I've never even heard of. I guess it does make more sense in terms of the words though.
For writing, I agree. For everyday speech, it's a different matter. Whichever system you prefer, both 'billion' and 'trillion' sound a lot more manageable in than 'times- ten-to-the-twelfth-power', after all.
in italy: 10^6: Milione 10^9: Miliardo 10^12: Bilione 10^15: Biliardo (Number, it could also mean the game without context) 10^18: Trilione 10^21: Triliardo
I understand the logic, but I don't like the long system personally. For one thing, I'm used to the short system. It sounds as though it can also get confusing. "Milliard" sounds quite a lot like "Million". It's the "mill" bit. Meanwhile, listen to the short system: million, billion, trillion, quadrillion... it's more easily distinguishable.
SeaBiscuit we use "thousand million" in spanish. We can say "million,billion,trillion" too, they're just different numbers than in the short system! FWIW, I always confuse million with billion in english, they sound too alike.
tiancsb You know, I didn't understand how million and billion could sound alike until just now, when I said them both out loud. Distinguishing the difference entirely hinges on picking up the "b" sound, and even if you exaggerate the "b", it doesn't make much of an impact on the sound. You're right, it's much easier to miss than I had anticipated. Something else I noticed is that the mouth moves in the same exact way to say both million and billion, so reading the lips doesn't provide any advantage in telling which one was said.
SeaBiscuit As a person who learned long system in school, I feel like there's something missing whenever I hear the short system. If I was educated to use short system, I wouldn't have this problem. If you were educated to use long system, you wouldn't have that problem. It's all about what we learned. :D
Maybe you forgot that million, billion, trillion, etc. Are WORDS. Words that describe numbers, but still WORDS. To have 2 countries that speak the same language use different number systems was likely a hassle and caused some miscommunication. Should this have been the change that was made in response? Who can say? Besides, this argument is pointless, and we're getting nowhere. I don't think either of us are going to be changing our minds on this matter any time soon, so why argue about it?
The long scale is made to make it bigger over time as new numbers are discovered, so it can be updated always. Ex: the grahham number grahham = (grahham's number)¹ grahhard = 1000 times grahham bigrahham = (grahham's number)² bigrahhard = 1000 times bigrahham trigrahham = (grahham's number)³ And so on (the scale can be bigger that this, but that is the point of the long system, this is just an example of how it works with a given number past the million)
We should just start off with Mille, the way it is in French, and then making all the higher ones, so 1000^2 being bille, then 1000^3 being trille. That would work out easier than both of these
This is almost the correct answer ;) The short system just needs to remove the "thousand" and shift everything up one position. Then the universe would all make sense, it would be way more logical than that messy long system, and much easier to make practical use of.
I'm an American and I didn't even realize this was the way French did it, but I have long held that this should be the case. "Mil" was always supposed to mean 1000, and both the long and short system erred in terms of making million mean 1,000,000. All the arguments for the long system apply equally to a short mil system where Million means 1000, and likewise for the short system, every term for million, billion, trillion, ect would be almost the same, but reduced by one place, i.e. a million becomes a billion, a billion becomes a trillion, ect.
Greeks dont use the long system. We indeed say 100-myriad and bi-100-myriad but the bi-100-myriad is the equivalent of a billion in the short system and not in the long system.
Growing up in Australia, I remember learning the two billions (thousand million/million million) as well as the ton (metric) vs. tonne (imperial). This was in the 1990s, but it was still evident that the million million interpretation was logically preferred, and the thousand million was considered an unhelpful Americanisation that was useful for talking about money but deeply inelegant in mathematical terms!
I did my highschool in the early 80's and we never had your issue. numbers only went up to a million in those days. Billion, trillion, quadragoogolzillion, these words never existed. Stay COVID safe and stay away from Victoria. They are all communists down there. Ciao for now
It's great to see how amazed he is by the word "Milliard". Greetings from the continental Europe.
5:02 - "One is one, that's fine"
Key takeaway from the entire video.
everything to the power of 0 is one
@@jezus22 Except zero!
@@photonicpizza1466 not quite, it can be 1 in some parts of the math like algebra, and in onther parts of math it can be undefined. anyway this is exceptional, and partialy you are correct.
@@photonicpizza1466 He said 'everything'. Zero is nothing
@@jezus22 "Except in algebra"? Algebra excludes it as well. The limit of 0^x as x→0 is 1, but 0^x by itself is always undefined. Not to mention, in complex algebra, it's also undefined even in terms of limits, as the limit from the imaginary axis is nonexistent.
Always got confused with this, you know, I’m Portuguese and speak Portuguese and we use the long system, but the Brazilians (who also speak Portuguese) use the short system
ZKB rhodas wow I’ve never heard of a Brazilionaire
How do you group orders of magnitude that don't have names with the long system? Like do you say "Dez mil milhão"? That has always seemed so clunky to me
Pacific Bird dez mil milhões, yes and the brazilians skip directly to dez bilhões
@@zkbrhodas8753 huh, alright fair enough. Other languages have a million, milliarde so I was unsure if European Portuguese had something similar.
in china 1 billion has 8 zeros
am i the only one who likes to see James' pure joy while talking about milliard?
I'm Russian and I used to think Americans were crazy for thinking there are 7billion people in the world but now I understand why...
You got it right, not all of them, just trump supporters (batshit crazy).
+Eduardo Daniel Kucharsky Terrazas 7 billion trump supporters
You spelled Hillary wrong
Actually Russia does not use the word billion, it just goes
million = 1.000.000
milliard = 1.000.000.000
trillion = 1.000.000.000.000
Sannesthesia Wow! In Hungary we use the long system. We have the milliard (milliárd) and so on. It's sometimes confusing because I'm learning English so on lessons I have to use two systems :-D
I always thought until I was "corrected" in Year 8 maths that it was 1 million million = 1 billion 1 billion billion = trillion etc. I call it the longerer system.
When I was at school, I was taught 1 billion = 1 million × 1 million...mind you, that was pre 1974.
It makes much more sense as
1 billion is 1 bi-million = 1 million^2
1 trillion is 1 tri-million = 1 million^3
The million is the base unit and the prefix ti indicate power is "merged into it"
For the shirt scale it is based on powers of 1 thousand, giving
1 thousand^2 = 1 bi-thousand = 1 bisand
1 thousand^3 = 1 tri-thousand = 1 trisand
etc.
Totally clears up any possible error in understanding the size of the number (and the number of zeros is obvious from the merged prefix).
Yeah I used to think this
You meant 1 million billion = trillion, right? 1 billion billion = quadrillion.
Janne Laitinen "I always thought"
There actually is a system, very much like that, proposed by computer scientist Donald Knuth, even though it is based on myriads (10,000). It's called the -yllion system (wikipedia has an article on it)
1 myriad= 10,000
1 myllion = 1 myriad myriads = 1 myriad squared = 100,000,000 (= 10^8)
1 byllion = 1 myllion myllions= 1 myllion squared = 10^16
1 tryllion = 1 byllion byllions= 1 byllion squared = 10 ^32
its chief advantage is that you get a lot more "ooomph" for each new prefix - one centyllion would take you up as far as 10^(2^102) = 10^ (5,070,602,400,912,917,605,986,812,821,404). Its drawback is that names get slightly more confusing. For example 6* 10^56 would become ' six myllion byllion tryllion', not to be confused with 'six tryllion (one) byllion (one) myllion' .
Anytime I see the word "trillion" in a news article in my country I'm 100% sure it's incorrectly translated from the English short system.
Same :-)
Both the long scale and short scale is a lie when it comes to a TRILLION. A million-billion should just be a million-billion, not a trillion. A trillion is from TRI+billion (tripple-billion, up from 'millions') as 1,000,000,000,000,000,000.
@@ferocentaur8859 Why? It defeats the beautiful logic of the long system and it leaves several gaps in between that could be useful to have names for.
You also seem confused, because the number you wrote (18 zeroes) is exactly the number trillion in the long system. A triple billion would be way larger, so either you like the long system or you are mistaken by your own system.
A trillion is 1000 billion. How is that hard to understand?
@@Paultimate7 And you did not watch the video.
I love how the thumbnail asks us if 1,000,000,000 is a billion or a trillion.
But it is just a milliard.
dutch
Confused me aswell
Technically a billion!
yeah it’s a mistake he meant to write 1,000,000,000,000
@@muhilan8540 damn, it's been 2 years, fsr i only got notified of your reply. Brings back memories of me binging numberphile.
4:04 "Somebody just got it wrong, and it just, sort of, caught on" - Origin story for half of the things in America.
elkikex xD
Sadly... to true
*too
...and yet America is and always will be the greatest nation in history. I love reading comments from the haters. Makes my day.
Except that both the short scale and the long scale were used in Europe before either was used in what would become the US.
When it gets to the really big numbers, in Ireland there are two camps - eg, "Does the government owe 'a Gazillion' Euros or 'a Gajillion' Euros"..?
In Germny we use the long system. And when u start to have english classes you're going to be heavy confused that people name numbers in such a different way.
Actually a lot of us in britain use the long system - Which I believe also originated in britain.
it's not it's just based on base 1000 instead of the hefty million.
htmlguy88 Yes, but it makes no logic to use base 1000 if the naming is base 1000000
Silphaer Really? Do you have proof?
About which point? For my second point, you may notice I say I BELIEVE it originated in Britain, I did not say I was certain. And for the first point I was basing on people whom I know personally, most of whom use the long (correct) system.
"Long System" supporter from Germany ;)
A bit late to the party, but let me send support from Spain
Long System supporter from Germany too.
Long System supporter from The Netherlands here!
The worst thing is when text is translated from English to a language that uses the long system (such as Finnish.) An inattentive/ignorant translator will make an error of three orders of magnitude when translating "billion".
I'm German and I noticed this many years ago while watching American news. the German word "Milliarde" corresponds to the American "Billion" and the German "Billion" corresponds to the American "Trillion."
The Dutch go with the Germans on this one: Billion is Miljard and Trillion is Biljoen.
Same in Sweden, we have the miljard and biljard, and i Think it's a great system
Svante Sandblom Well, there may be a difference. Where is your Biljoen. In the Netherlands Biljard is 1000 times Biljoen. S in NL o it looks like this. Miljoen x 1000 = Miljard x 1000 = Biljoen x 1000 = Biljard and that is as far as I learned to count at school...
***** OMG...
Romania is using the long system as well. 'Million' is 'milion' and 'milliard' is 'miliard'. The billions are not really used, but they are 1000^2.
'Murica is confusing.
In danish it's:
Million = 1,000,000
Milliard = 1,000,000,000
Billion = 1,000,000,000,000
Billiard = 1,000,000,000,000,000
Same in Hungarian :)
Same in Czech. Seems like only Americans have to have something special :D
Same in German
Same in Poland
And then trillion and trilliard, it is more logocal, because bi = 2 and tri = 3 (milliard is 1).
Can we align it to mega, giga , tera etc?
Mega=million giga=billion tera=trillion
But those are based on powers of two, not 10, aren't they?
Million is a number, and Mega is a unit prefix. And they are not based on power of two : a megameter is a thousand kilometer. There is another prefix for 2^10 : kibi, which is 1024, so a kibibyte is 1024 bytes. Which is different from a kilobyte...
That's pretty confusing.
Fun fact : if your hard drive says that it has only around 1.9GB left, and you check it's properties, you might see that it has actually 2.0×10^9 bytes. That is not a rounding mistake, it's just that GB are gibi bytes and not giga bytes...
@@thomasfavrot4987 its not 1024 its 1000
@@thomasfavrot4987 andvu like ur pwn comment dipshit
7:59 whoa he quickly number-zoned the long system 😂😂😂
I'll add one more thing. I am from Slovakia and as you know some languages have masculine, feminine and gender neutral nouns and pronouns. Well in Slovakia we use the long system but here we alternate the genders in a way.
A million is "milión", which makes it masculine (male) and a milliard is "miliarda". The "a" at the end of "miliarda" makes it feminine. Same goes for all the other ones: milón, miliarda, bilión, biliarda, trilión, triliarda...
So from million up it always alternates masculine , feminine , masculine , feminine ....
same goes for germany, we have a "millionär" (milliorair) but male, and we have "millionärin" (same but female).
that's not what MisterShizno was talking about...
I'm sorry, but you don't appear to grasp this. He says that their 10^(6n) words are masculine and their 10^(6n + 3) are feminine (for n > 0), not that they have a masculine and feminine word for a millionaire/billionaire/...
+Tempestas Praefert ohhhh, yea got it :D thanks for telling me and not just saying I was wrong
You're welcome ;)
I use the "load" system:
1 000 a load
1 000 000 a shit load
1 000 000 000 a fuck load
1 000 000 000 000 a fuck off shit load
This system works best for every day speaking, eg. Premiership footballers earn a shit load of money." Or: "the national debt of [country] is a fuck off shit load of dollars"
I would adapt that
I like.
Calphon you ruined it
Calphon YOu must be fun at parties...
Julian the Ivysaur Really? I didnt notice.
Slovakia uses the long system, so i was always confused with Milliard and Billion. Thank you for explaining this.
When English adopted America's system but America still uses imperial.
Top 10 anime betrayals.
Although technically, Imperial system is England's system. That's why in my country calls them "English units" even though the U.K. doesn't use it anymore. My classmates even say "British people are just picky and like things fancy" and stuff like that...
we said we'd take their kilogram & we did. that one from France we keep in the Smithsonian or whatever..
Moondust2365 The British still use the Imperial system for the most part.
@@thehumungus9066 Really? Didn't know, but I guess it makes sense...
@@moondust2365 That's not correct. British people use the imperial system for some things and the metric system for other things, but the metric system definitely predominates, especially in younger generations. It's not at all like the U.S., where the customary units are overwhelmingly used in favor of metric units by most people.
Why was I NEVER informed of this difference?
Get outta here andrew.... THIS IS MY DOMAIN....
livefromhollywood194 because you're from the US
I was never inform of the difference in the UK.
livefromhollywood194 because you have a minecraft profile picture
livefromhollywood194 Because "Gringolandia"
The way England's economy is going they won't have to worry about any of this.
Larry Alexander Depends on how much debt they get into.
Damn
I dont think they will be ok after the Brexit. I believe that they should stick to the EU because it benefits them.
Φώτης Γεωργέλλης
U mad? The EU takes money from Britain so we get nothing out of it
@@theaslam9758 First of all by sticking with the EU the country will have a stronger connection with the other EU members. Also by being part of the EU offers a number of benefits to the english people such as easier travel to the other EU countries.
I live in Canada and I can confirm how annoying it is to use both
I live in Canada and have never heard of the long system in my entire life, didn't even know it existed
Being Québécois I would use the long system in French and the short system in English. However I don't ever recall using the words trillion in English or billion in French, because at that point you're either using the tera prefix or just saying exponentials (10 to the 12, etc.).
I remember learning them both. Learning French I remember using the long form only, in English (once I reached high school) we used mostly the short form. Billiards and what not were only really used in specific lessons or by certain teachers. Other than that the short form was mostly adopted. I still here some people use the longer form idea. They’re usually more old fashioned lol.
I guess it doesn’t help that the words are the exact same in both languages, they just don’t stand for the same numbers
Wait, so if you find a kindergarten mathematical problem which uses words instead of numbers and says something like:
"A farmer goes to the market to sell 1 billion apples. He sells them to 1 thousand different merchants. How many apples does each merchant have?"
Does it have two different right aswers for if the kid is used to one system or the other?
Here in Denmark, it is not at all unusual to see American billions mistranslated as "billion". So when seeing the word "billion" in a news item about forreign affairs, you have think about whether "milliard" or "billion" makes most sense in context.
same thing in germany
Journalists are the worst... We have the same problem in Latin America, they don't realize they have to transform American billions into thousand millions (or milliards). So you always have to assume they've translated it wrong.
Same in Finland, but its exceedingly rare nowadays
As a Dutch person who was always confused as to why our words to describe these numbers differed fron the English one, I now finally see that my country still enforces the most logical system. Great vid.
In Swedish:
10^0 = ett
10^3 = 1 tusen
10^6 = 1 miljon
10^9 = 1 miljard
10^12 = 1 biljon
10^15 = 1 biljard
10^18 = 1 triljon
10^21 = 1 triljard
etc...
Yeah it's the same in most of europe, I was very shocked when I realized that a "European" trillion is much more than the American trillion
In Germany:
10^0 Eins
10^3 tausend
10^6 Millionen
10^9 Milliarden
10^12 Billionen
10^15 Billiarden
10^18 Trillionen
10^21 Trilliarde
And so on
Dutch:
10^0 = één
10^3 = 1 duizend
10^6 = 1 miljoen
10^9 = 1 miljard
10^12 = 1 biljoen
10^15 = 1 biljard
10^18 = 1 triljoen
10^21 = 1 triljard
In Finnish:
10³ = tuhat
10⁶ = miljoona
10⁹ = miljardi
10¹² = biljoona
10¹⁸ = triljoona
Reason why we don't have name for 10¹⁵ is quite simple. Fastest of you probably quessed what name for it should be: biljardi.
Problem is that we already use that word when we talk about cue sports.
I think using it as name for 10¹⁵ wouldn't be issue because for example we use same word ("kuusi") for number 6 and it is Finnish translation for spruce.
Een
Duizend
Miljoen
Miljard
Biljoen
Biljard
Triljoen
Triljard
I came here absolutely sure of the answer and now I'm leaving with a milliard questions, omg
Fahrenheit, Inches, Pounds and Billion.... America has a talent to use the most illogical and impractical systems you can have.
Hey, when the colonies were first formed, metric didn't exist, and when we eventually did try converting to metric, people were too used to it and flipped out. I'm upset too that we didn't switch.
SabertoothTigga / _TheRealAmeRicA Also expensive? Having to change every sign and roads etc would rack up a pretty penny
I used to think we should have switched a log time ago, but now I feel that it doesn't really matter because we can (and do) learn both systems side by side, so now it seems unnecessary. Although I admit that going between miles and kilometers is a pain.
It would be a one-time cost though.
Compared to the continuous cost of having 2 systems (if you want to trade/collaborate with other countries) and the added complexity of the Imperial system.
In canada engeneering companies charge 10-15% more if the work is done in Imperial.
Companies in Australia that switched over where saving up to 10% in operating cost each year.
most of the US system is based on powers of two for a lot of conversions like there's 4 fluid ounces toa gill 2 gills to a cup 2 of those to a pint 4 of those to a liquid gallon. 2 of those to a peck. 4 of those to a bushel I think.
I look forward to the day when we avoid all confusion by using standard SI prefixes as we do in computing. So it would be £M1 (1 Megapound = £1,000,000), £G1 (1 Gigapound = £1,000,000,000) etc in the same way that we have 1 Megabyte and 1 Gigabyte etc
"Megapound" is not anything. You simply can't do that.
But - I did.
I like it. It does away with all those pesky zeroes :)
Except a megabyte is 1048576 bytes and a gigabyte is 1073741824 bytes.
Agreed - didn't clock that until after posting and have been ruing it ever since. Still, it's the use of the prefixes that's important. Make sure your annual salary is in computer kilopounds ...
standard form? it is called scientific notation where I live
Here in the UK it's called standard form. It's a mandatory part of science &/or maths in schools, now, too :/
Kris F Yes, that is another thing. I live in the United States, and we are taught scientific notation; standard form is used for different forms of writing functions.
ofcourse it is, a big number such as 100000000000000000000000000000000 has no meaning to a person, cause you cant count the zeroes and just know hat it's big, 10^32 is alot more understandable and takes up less space
Actually it's called Exponentialschreibweise ;-)
Hah, of course the Germans just go ahead and slap together the words for a description of the thing. I love it :3
I love this! Not sure I ever learned of the long scale before. It makes loads more sense. Fascinated by all of this, including the Greek tidbit at the end. Cheers!
As a Greek, I too was surprised by that nod. And he is absolutely correct. In Greek, it’s εκατομμύριο (εκατό - 100, μυριο - myriad) and δισεκατομμύριο (δις - bi, etc)
I love that he underlined one letter in million, two for billion, three for trillion, four for quadrillion, and quintillion would be five. That means the first five number prefixes each have that number of letters.
Million doesn't have any root stemming from -mono, tho...
I'm from Spain and I was taught the 'long system' at school. It makes so much more sense.
Same
Same in Denmark
1.000.000.000 : mil millones
Make Billion Great Again
I have the best billion. I know billions. Noone has better billions than me.
whocareswho I got a small loan of a Million Million dollars.
I live in Britan, and I've never heared of this before. But now that I have, I want to bring it back.
The illogicity of the short system is quickly resolved if you consider the exponent as n+1, where n is the corresponding number in the naming convention, ie trillion = 1000^(3+1), billion = 1000^(2+1), etc. Short system is more convenient in that the name endings are consistent (-illion).
Name endings in the long system are also consistent... -iard or -illion
And they can be even more consistent by using "Thousand million" instead of "milliard."
***** No reason for that, iard already states it's a thousand.
TimmehTRP Yes, but -iard and -illion might be a little too complex for some people (sadly) so having both names is helpful.
***** Lol, too hard to remember, please tell me they don't actually say that? That's just making the american stereotype worse :o
English, born 1965, was taught that a billion was, indeed, 1,000,000,000,000.
Took me donkeys years to get past us starting to use the US system and it STILL doesn't feel right!
The Gods Right-Hand Man Don't do it man. Rebel!
That is because it is NOT right. It was about time that the US system was abandoned and we re-aligned with the rest of the world.
Do you people not think about how this stuff if put in place could f*** up children's educations... Think about it your a young child and you learn a million is 100000 and a billion is 1000000000
@@Craig_edge2002 so?
In Spanish it goes like this:
10-diez
100-cien
1000-mil
10.000-diez mil
100.000-cien mil
1.000.000-millón
10.000.000-diez millones
100.000.000-cien millones
1.000.000.000-mil millones
10.000.000.000-diez mil millones
100.000.000.000-cien mil millones
1.000.000.000.000-billón
It uses the long system.
You can clearly see a pattern in the names. It really shocked me and annoyed me when my English teacher told me about the short system. It just doesn’t make sense, it breaks the pattern.
German
10 Zehn
100 Hundert
1.000 Tausend
10.000 Zehn-tausend
100.000 Hundert-Tausend
*1.000.000 Eine Million(en)*
10.000.000 Zehn Millionen
100.000.000 Hundert Millionen
*1.000.000.000 Eine Milliarde*
10.000.000.000 Zehn Milliarden
100.000.000.000 Hundert Milliarden
*1.000.000.000.000 Eine Billion(en)*
So it’s basically “MilliONen, MilliARDen, BilliONen, BilliARDen, TrilliONen, TrilliARDen, QuadrilliONen...” (each 1000 “-onen” are one “-arden” :P)
@@user-bg7ef4ns4v Same for Czechia
1 000 000 - milion
1 000 000 000 - miliarda
1 000 000 000 000 - bilion
1 000 000 000 000 000 - biliarda
10^18 - trilion
10^21 - triliarda
etc.
While it makes more since in Spanish class I learned a short system Spanish
Millardo also exists in Spanish. I think only Venezuela uses that word, but it means the same as a thousand million.
same happened to me. i´m from argentina and for me the short system makes no sense
I've never understood the long system, but now it makes so much more sense than the short system.
As a Finn, I grew up with the long system; and I *_LOVE_* it. It’s *_THE_* System, for me; always has been; always will be. It just makes so much more sense. 🇫🇮😎👍🏻
We use the long system in Iceland (with the milliard + billiard etc inbetween too)
+wickedest-witch In France too :D
+staqelsujet Here in Germany and here Russia in Russia we use the long one as well! (To both here because I am bilingual)
+Edward Überfluss (edward-ueberfluss) We in Russia are strange:
10^3 - thouthand/тысяча [tisyacha]
10^6 - million/миллион
10^9 - milliard/миллиард, but if you say billion most of people will understand you as milliard
10^12 - trillion
10^15 - quadrillion
etc.
+Сквиртл Андрей I know right? (Если ты не понял: я русский ;) )
Edward Überfluss Я решил, что ты Deutcsh, по НЕИЗВЕСТНОЙ причине
In Germany its:
Millonen(million) = 1.000.000
Milliarden(milliard) = 1.000.000.000
Billionen(billion) = 1.000.000.000.000
The logic behind the short scale, and what is used to make it not idiotic, is actually 1000x1000 to the power of. So:
1 Billion is 1000x1000^2
1 Trillion is 1000x1000^3
1 Quadrillion is 1000x1000^4 and so on...
+Mateusz Wojtkiewicz ...
+Mateusz Wojtkiewicz That is not the short system. According to your description, Billion in the short system would be 1000x1000 x 1000x1000 = 1000^4 which is Trillion in the short system.
1 Million = 1000x1000^1 = 1000x1000 = 1 000 000
1 Billion = 1000x1000^2 = 1000x1 000 000 = 1 000 000 000
1 Trillion = 1000x1000^3 = 1000x1 000 000 000 = 1 000 000 000 000
... so it does work. Don't know why you ended up with billion being 1000^4.
Mateusz Wojtkiewicz Okay, I messed up the order of operations. It is still more complicated.
SirCutRy it's ridiculous and the long scale is better in every way... just wanted to share the "logic" behind it since in the video they didn't seem to understand it.
I was born in Israel and moved to the US. when I was young...I remember always being confused and not understanding where the billiard disappeared...now it all makes sense!
It disappeared into the side pocket.
Ah, another system where the UK decided to something illogical to not be the SAME as continental Europe.
you have to keep in mind that that the metric system is a logical advancement of an illogical system ... so, the opposite of the 'murican-numbers-introduction'
anonym Apparently the short system was invented and used long before the United States even existed.
And I thought the Government *wanted* Britain to be a part of Europe...
Well I live in a european country but we use the short system as well.
@@Tom81dd Why is the metric system illogical? I'm curious.
There's also another little problem that comes with this language/number gap. There're lots of spanish/english translators that seem to forget that you actually also have to translate math, and the problem is bigger when the words millions, billions and trillions are basically written the same way in both languages so when, for example, they see the word "billonare" they translate it to what sounds correct in spanish, "billonario", an easy translation it seems. But then that word brakes the entire text because the number is massively huge in comparison to it's original form in english and the guy ends up having a net worth of around a $1000000000000 which is an insane number that no human can ever posses. The problem is also persistent in weight and distance measures. I remember being in elementary school and watching a drawing in an astronomy book with the weight of the earth and some other astronomical measures, everything in billions and trillions, i looked at my dad not being able to grasp the quantity of zeros those numbers could have, he looked at me an then told me this really tricky language thing, for a week I had thought the galaxy was a thousand times larger than it is.
Are there issues the other way around (though I guess it would be less severe for a milliard is unambiguous)?
While in every day French, "milliard" is a thousand million. But I personally don't think "billion" is often used.
I often read "mille milliards" and I'm not talking about the Captain Haddock's swear "Mille milliards de mille sabords" of course.
Eastern Europe here, Romania to be more precise.
Had a course in uni on English from an economics pov... we actually had a few hours discussing this exact topic because it's so alien to us.
First time i heard about the short system.
I have always used milliard and billiard.
So where are you from? I learned the short system for English at school.
Ich am från Sweden
Yea because it makes more sense. Geezz world would be much more simpler if we stop inventing confusing things because we are stubborn like US.
Albin Einstein
*Ich komme aus Deutschland
Lucas Stefan Nien. Ich komme aus Schweden.
This video is pretty old, so there are a lot of comments I didn't read. Has anyone mentioned Chinese? They group powers of ten by fours. (In order for the following to make sense, you have to know that there are thousands of homonyms in Chinese that are completely disambiguated by the characters used to write them. See below.) So:
10000^0 = 10^0 = 1 - yi
10^1 = 10 - shi
10^2 = 100 - bai
10^3 = 1000 - qian
10000^1 = 10^4 = 10000 - wan (or yi wan, i.e. one ten-thousand)
10^5 = 100000 - shi wan (ten ten-thousands)
10^6 = 1000000 - bai wan (hundred ten-thousands)
10^7 = 10000000 - qian wan (thousand ten-thousands)
10000^2 = 10^8 = 100000000 - yi [different yi, see above] (one hundred-million)
10^9 = 1000000000 - shi yi (ten hundred-millions)
etc.
There aren't any words past yi. They just start using standard notation.
I've always followed a piece of advice I got from long ago. When discussing large numbers in English with a native Chinese speaker I always use the Chinese words
中文其实有四种进位方式--上数、中数、下数和万进位。上数：平方进位--亿（10^8）＝万万（（10^4）^2）、兆（10^16）＝亿亿（（10^8）^2）、京（10^32）＝兆兆（（10^16）^2）……中数：从“亿”开始，亿进位--亿（10^8）＝万万（1 0000×1 0000）、兆（10^16）＝亿亿（1 0000 0000×1 0000 0000）、京（10^24）＝亿兆（（10^8）×（10^16））……下数：10进位--亿（10000）＝10万、兆（1000000）＝10亿、京＝10兆（10000000）……万进位，就是现在通用的--亿（1 0000 0000）＝万万（1 0000×1 0000）、兆（10^12）＝万亿（1 0000×1 0000 0000）、京（10^16）＝万兆（1 0000×10^12）……
In japanese it is quite similar to this as well.
Then in India they have “lakh” and “crore”.
The same happens in Japanese.
here it goes million, milliard, billion, billiard, trillion, trilliard...
I'm Greek and I didn't notice the myriad and 100 connection thanks. It also makes perfect sense linguistically at the etymology (as a connection of two words), both in ancient and modern greek variations of the language.
We can't use the Long System because there would be no billionaires anymore, only millionaires and milliardaires :)
You joke, but I wouldn't be surprised if the first moron to use the short system was some rich douche that wanted to set himself apart from other rich douches and so wanted to be a billionaire instead of a millionaire like all those peasants.
I'm living in Switzerland so when I'm hearing reading english, i just think billion=Millarde, is that don't familiar, in England? I think the long system is simpler.
I love your pronunciation of the World Milliard. (yes my english is bad, i know that.)
Denmark uses the long system. Imagine the horror of reading and learning most things in english (short system) and then having to explain it in danish (long system) "there are7 billion people on earth, but not really cause someone couldn't pronouce 'milliard'"
+Lirk “Purps” Ravnsgaard yup, same thing happens to me in spanish, but the spanish speaking world doesn't really uses the world Milliard (Millardo) on a daily basis, we say "there are 7 thousand million people in the world/hay 7 mil millones de personas en el mundo". We use mil millones thats all :P
+supersuato123 exactly in spain millardo is not used, we allways say thousands of millions, and then billion for 10^12.
Millardo is only for spanish speaking Americans.
thefun frame
Yes!
In Chile we use the long system and it's a little confusing for me when I watch series in english, I still don't understand why someone would use the short one... so weird
weird is have to say "thousand million" instead of simple ''billion''
@@dennerdouglas8645 because it's really graphic. It's a thousand followed by 6 zeros
@⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻ In Spanish the term is a Thousand Million
It is shorter but incorrect.
@@feynman6625 it's not wrong. It's a different language
Miljoona 1 000 000
Miljardi 1 000 000 000
Biljoona 1 000 000 000 000
Triljoona 1 000 000 000 000 000 000
Kvadriljoona 10^24
Sentiljoona 10^600
In finnish that is
I never new that a thing like a milliard exists outside of Germany... I always wondered about the difference between higher numbers back when I was younger, thanks for clarifying that :)
I know this varies by country, but to me this makes the most sense:
1,000 = one Thousand
1,000,000 = one Million
1,000,000,000 = one Billion
1,000,000,000,000 = one Trillion
Every new "comma" gets a new name.
That's because the commas are put in correlating to powers of one thousand rather than powers of one million, the same would be true if you had a comma every 6 digits instead of every 3 :)
blazednlovinit In that case, saying things like one Thousand would be kind of weird, because there is no comma until 1 million. In the comma per 3 0's system, it's better because in every day life it's not like we need to use billions and stuff like that, and it would just make it harder to read.
Akmed Man Well it would be weird to you, but it wouldn't be "wrong". Plenty of different ways to handle mathematics other than our decimal, zero digit, place value system
blazednlovinit Yeah, I didn't mean it would be wrong, I was just saying it wouldn't be as efficient.
Akmed Man For what reason? It's still a base-ten/decimal system so the mathematics is exactly the same, you're literally just moving the comma and calling numbers different names.
I had no idea this was a thing. As a Brit living in the UK and only ever being taught the short form, I never even questioned it, but a lot of what they say makes sense.
Really? I was taught both, certainly by around 2011.
In French, we use the milliard…
I'm 16 years
I live in Swizerland
A Billion is 1'000'000'000'000
I still can't figure out why your age is relevant to your comment.
Because I'm NUMBERPHILE!!
Defeshh
0:55
nazdreg grezdan Ohh gotcha, that went over my head. My bad.
:)
In Norway, we use the long system, however, we are de fact bi-lingual, using English a lot, so we kinda get our values wrong when speaking to English speaking people
Even though I've learnt in school that a billion is a thousand million, I prefer the long scale system which was traditionally used in Britain prior to 1974. This is where a billion is a million million, a trillion is a million billion, a quadrillion is a million trillion, etc. I understand that the long scale system may be more cumbersome than the short scale system, but I agree that the long scale system makes more logical sense.
The biggest key difference is that in the long system, a vigintillion is bigger than a googol, whereas it's smaller in the short system.
The formula for the two systems can be shown here.
Short scale system: 10^(3n+3)
Long scale system: 10^6n
Here is a list of key dictionary numbers in the long scale system:
Million - 1e+6
Billion - 1e+12
Trillion - 1e+18
Quadrillion - 1e+24
Quintillion - 1e+30
Sextillion - 1e+36
Septillion - 1e+42
Octillion - 1e+48
Nonillion - 1e+54
Decillion - 1e+60
Googol (for comparison) - 1e+100
Vigintillion - 1e+120
Centillion - 1e+600
Millinillion - 1e+6000
Milli-millinillion - 1e+6000000
Here's an extension to the system based on SI prefixes (this extension is derived from the Epstein system, devised by Louis Epstein):
Megillion - 1e+6000000
Gigillion - 1e+6000000000
Terillion - 1e+(6e+12)
Petillion - 1e+(6e+15)
Exillion - 1e+(6e+18)
Zettillion - 1e+(6e+21)
Yottillion - 1e+(6e+24)
Ronnillion - 1e+(6e+27)
Quettillion - 1e+(6e+30)
Still quite far from a googolplex, which has one followed by a googol (ten thousand sedecillion; ten duotrigintillion in the short scale) zeroes. A quettillion has a one followed by six quintillion zeroes (six nonillion in the short scale).
6:48 In Russian:
Million = 10^6
Milliard = 10^9
Trillion = 10^12
Quadrillion = 10^15
Quintillion = 10^18
etc
no billion between million and trillion?
@Martin Ducharme No
they just wanna confuse everybody lol
Same in italian, because people think millard means billion so the next one in their mind is trillion
That's strange
I immediately fell in love with the long system thanks to this video
Funny because I immediately hated it😂
cookiecrispvanilla why?
Shamur Stewart But this makes a lot more sense if you think about it
Shamur Stewart Then you tell me why in your system is a trillion called a trillion?
Shamur Stewart Yeah but a trillion is supposed to have something to do with the number three but in the short system it doesn't
I’m australian and we use the short system. I agree that the long system makes more sense, and I actually like milliard and billiard etc. But it just sounds so wrong to me to call it that, I simply cannot wrap my head around it.
Cause you are not used to it, but longer version is the org., and dont know which idiot changed it
My father use to say there were two ways a billion was defined depending on the language. This clears it up. I remember when Canada underwent the metric conversion. I was in grade 2 in 1974..
America is the centre of cultural discourse. 1000 million is a modern billion unfortunately
Thanks for this episode, I’ve always been interested why it’s different in English than I was taught at school (in Poland). We use long system.
Screw it. Let's abolish all the names and just use standard form for anything larger than 10,000.
as someone from Poland, it is really confusing and just annoying
I was speaking to my friends about things with super low chances of happening and I told them there was something with a chance of one in one trillion, then remembered that I learnt that in an english youtube video and was like: oh wait we've got a different trillion
The numbers in the short system are more useful (especially internationally) but the names make mare sence in the long system.
In spanish it's:
Million = 1,000,000
Milliard = 1,000,000,000 (millardo) thousand million
Billion = 1,000,000,000,000 (billón)
Billiard = 1,000,000,000,000,000 (billardo)
Just like most of Europe (I'm Polish lol)
In Croatian too :)
Kyo Shiroma same in Russian
Kyo Shiroma same in dutch
Anna, no. In russia we use short system, not long system (but word billion is replaced with word milliard).
У нас не длинная шкала, а короткая, лишь с исключением, что слово биллион заменено словом миллиард.
I am German and we use the long system, I then learned to count in French, a language that honestly needs to sort out the naming of their numbers!
Then I was blessed in school learning to count in the English way, which actually added quite a lot of confusion because when you look up 'Milliarde', the German word for 10^9, you get two translations 'billion' and 'milliard'.... well and then I learned Korean which instead of using any of those systems has a system where the numbers receive new names for every multiplicative of 10.000.... Im planning on learning more languages and it would really make things easier if everyone could just sign a convention already that from now on in any place on earth things are counted in 10 to the power of...
Finally, this makes sense to me now! Thank you! In Dutch, these names also align with the '-air's' Miljonair - Miljardair - Biljonair - etc...
I’ve grown up in English speaking Canada and knew nothing of the long system until now and now I’m pissed we don’t use it. This makes so much more sense
I was brought up on the short system, and learned of the long system while still in school.
And like James, I find the latter more logical, but will stick to the former.
If, however, there were a move on to switch to the long system, I would support that.
The way I thought about the short system which makes perfect sense is the amount of extra sets of three zeros after a thousand. Aka 1000(1000)^x
Or:
(10^3)^(n+1)
Guys, I just loved this video and how well you explained all the small nuances. Thank you for the great work.
I'm glad I live in a country that used the long scale and the metric system :)
***** It's because the people are used to the imperial system.
***** me and all my friends use metric in Roleplay and writing. We use meters instead of yards as well, cm for heights and etc. ^0^ I prefer the short system but would gladly change to the long system for unity in langauge. But then... what about Asia?
MilesTraveler That's pretty funny :P Because in Dungeons and Dragons we actually use the imperial system. While we live in the Netherlands and normally use metric xD
Kees Wesselink I understand; miles and stones just feel more romantic than kilometres and kilograms in my mind, also better for immersion in fantasy settings.
***** it seems simplest to just measure in whatever the rulesbook measures in.
Since i learnt about powers when i was a kid, millions milliards etc stopped being natural for me.
I just think in powers now, and have to translate it into the words.
You missed thousand in long system, is it then oneard? :-) Just kidding, we use long system in Finland too, "miljardi" being thousand millions.
Though, wouldn't the most logical system be short system that is fixed one step down. Especially since "mill" in million is actually referring to thousand.
1 = One = (1000)^0
1 000 = Million = (1000)^1
1 000 000 = Billion = (1000)^2
1 000 000 000 = Trillion = (1000)^3
...
Tiikoni mutta sillon sen pitäis olla pelkkä mill eikä million
Hmm, ehkä. Mistä lie tuo "ion" tullut. Okay then: One (1), Mill (1 000), Bill (1 000 000), Trill (1 000 000 000)... :-)
Tiikoni xd
Eiks tossa selitetty jotai et se on "iso tuhat" tai jotai sellasta
Thats what I think should be done. Cus we have the zeros (in english at least) in groups of three.
Congratulations! :D You found the right answer ;) Now let's start a petition
Even in the United States, "milliard" is still used on a limited basis. Specifically, in financial trading. My first job in banking was doing treasury trade support. The funds traders would call us up and tell us to move funds virtually on the computer as they made real time trades. For trades of a billion, they would call it a "yard", shorthand for a milliard. So I would get a call like "500 million to BOA, a yard to Citizens, 3 yards to Chase!"..."ok confirmed!".
What they should have done is put prefixes to million, like the way computers do it. kilomillion, megamillion, gigamillion, teramillion. There is no dispute in k/m/g/t of their meaning, and keep the long system without reusing words, therefore there would be no confusion, for instance 1 megamillion = 1 billion
In the whole Spanish speaking we use the correct one. That is, a billion is a million million.
The reason the UK switched to the short system is that everybody else (outside the Anglo-Saxon world) uses the long system. They always have to do things differently (no metric system, driving on the left side), sabotaging standardization & internationalization.
3:34 it is how many thousands are in front of the first thousand.
Since million is one thousand in front of one thousand.
In Norway we use the long system, the words Million and Milliard are really common, not so much Billion and Billiard.. When I was younger I was really confused why what we call Milliard was called Billion in english, tho we also have the word Billion, but it wasn't the same thing as in english. I also didn't really know the difference between Billion and Billiard, I would sometimes think they were the same number. This video suddenly makes sence of it all!
yeah, and I'm gonna enjoy saying "biljarder" again :D //svensk haha
Heyyyy, so the French counting system makes more sense that the english one I knew it !
-But what about 99 ?
-I SAID "I KNEW IT" !
When I'm speaking English I always think of a billion as 10^9.
But in my local language of Dutch 10^9 is called 'Miljard' and we also have 'Biljoen' which is 10^12
I thought this video was gonna be about how a billion is bigger than you think it is using crazy examples, but I ended up learning about this "long system" I've never even heard of. I guess it does make more sense in terms of the words though.
So the moral of the story is, just use standard form. It's a lot easier than having 2*10^3 different numbering systems.
Which base? :P
Nytheris there is two systems not four hundred
For writing, I agree. For everyday speech, it's a different matter. Whichever system you prefer, both 'billion' and 'trillion' sound a lot more manageable in than 'times- ten-to-the-twelfth-power', after all.
in italy:
10^6: Milione
10^9: Miliardo
10^12: Bilione
10^15: Biliardo (Number, it could also mean the game without context)
10^18: Trilione
10^21: Triliardo
You made a mistake you should edit your comment
@@victorien4141 What mistake?
Edit your comment
@@momoz4427 are you happy now?
@@like31000 Yes, thank you very much! Have a nice day:)
I understand the logic, but I don't like the long system personally. For one thing, I'm used to the short system. It sounds as though it can also get confusing. "Milliard" sounds quite a lot like "Million". It's the "mill" bit. Meanwhile, listen to the short system: million, billion, trillion, quadrillion... it's more easily distinguishable.
SeaBiscuit we use "thousand million" in spanish. We can say "million,billion,trillion" too, they're just different numbers than in the short system!
FWIW, I always confuse million with billion in english, they sound too alike.
tiancsb "FWIW"... For what it's worth, right?
tiancsb You know, I didn't understand how million and billion could sound alike until just now, when I said them both out loud. Distinguishing the difference entirely hinges on picking up the "b" sound, and even if you exaggerate the "b", it doesn't make much of an impact on the sound. You're right, it's much easier to miss than I had anticipated.
Something else I noticed is that the mouth moves in the same exact way to say both million and billion, so reading the lips doesn't provide any advantage in telling which one was said.
SeaBiscuit As a person who learned long system in school, I feel like there's something missing whenever I hear the short system. If I was educated to use short system, I wouldn't have this problem. If you were educated to use long system, you wouldn't have that problem. It's all about what we learned. :D
Maybe you forgot that million, billion, trillion, etc. Are WORDS. Words that describe numbers, but still WORDS. To have 2 countries that speak the same language use different number systems was likely a hassle and caused some miscommunication. Should this have been the change that was made in response? Who can say?
Besides, this argument is pointless, and we're getting nowhere. I don't think either of us are going to be changing our minds on this matter any time soon, so why argue about it?
The long scale is made to make it bigger over time as new numbers are discovered, so it can be updated always. Ex: the grahham number
grahham = (grahham's number)¹
grahhard = 1000 times grahham
bigrahham = (grahham's number)²
bigrahhard = 1000 times bigrahham
trigrahham = (grahham's number)³
And so on (the scale can be bigger that this, but that is the point of the long system, this is just an example of how it works with a given number past the million)
We should just start off with Mille, the way it is in French, and then making all the higher ones, so 1000^2 being bille, then 1000^3 being trille. That would work out easier than both of these
This is almost the correct answer ;) The short system just needs to remove the "thousand" and shift everything up one position. Then the universe would all make sense, it would be way more logical than that messy long system, and much easier to make practical use of.
@@ClipsNSnips fair enough
I'm an American and I didn't even realize this was the way French did it, but I have long held that this should be the case. "Mil" was always supposed to mean 1000, and both the long and short system erred in terms of making million mean 1,000,000. All the arguments for the long system apply equally to a short mil system where Million means 1000, and likewise for the short system, every term for million, billion, trillion, ect would be almost the same, but reduced by one place, i.e. a million becomes a billion, a billion becomes a trillion, ect.
Greeks dont use the long system. We indeed say 100-myriad and bi-100-myriad but the bi-100-myriad is the equivalent of a billion in the short system and not in the long system.
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Growing up in Australia, I remember learning the two billions (thousand million/million million) as well as the ton (metric) vs. tonne (imperial). This was in the 1990s, but it was still evident that the million million interpretation was logically preferred, and the thousand million was considered an unhelpful Americanisation that was useful for talking about money but deeply inelegant in mathematical terms!
I did my highschool in the early 80's and we never had your issue. numbers only went up to a million in those days. Billion, trillion, quadragoogolzillion, these words never existed. Stay COVID safe and stay away from Victoria. They are all communists down there. Ciao for now
I fully agree with James and Tony. I’m grateful that Finland has kept the long system 🇫🇮.