I think part of why Fours want to relate to others through so much story is needing to detail all the context we have built up in our head. As if people couldn't possibly understand what we truly hope to convey without every little tedious detail. We also often have a hard time actively listening. We are always thinking about how we want to respond when others are talking. I totally agree about getting into your body and being active. Physical activities & a regimen totally help generate natural endorphins and serotonin that Fours are always craving
Perhaps writing would be a good way, to express 'all the details' and 'back up story' 4s feel is necessary, for others to see the 'gravity of the feeling/situation. It is my personal opinion, (my mother was a 4) that secretly, they do NOT want to be understood. I think if they allowed themselves to 'hear' thers, they would find, everybody suffers pain 'here'. Seems no one leaves Earth, unscathed. 😶
Girl yes. I struggle with listening I tune out if it's to long or I have a super strong need to reply as someone is talking because I know if you get to the end I will forget what I want to say or even what you said if is to long because I really probably started thinking about something else while looking directly at you.
I have watched over 50 enneagram type 4 videos, this is by far the most accurate and relatable video, thank you all so much for Sharing. It felt very personal
The gentleman made me cry. I've been in a rut for a while, just spinning between apathy and complete obsession. His description of needing to be present, in his body, needing to push himself to get outside of his mind...to pursue what he knows instinctively is what he needs to feel more alive and whole...wow. What an eloquently spoken way of describing exactly what I've known all along that I too have needed. When he talked about the wind in his face, it broke me. Thank you, sir. The good thing about being in the 'shit' in this life, is that you are rarely ever in it alone. Here's to forgetting the smell, soaking up the nutrients, and being present in our bodies. Love and peace to you. Sincerely, a 9w8.
@Sunflower Bear I consider that a compliment, but I have tested numerous times, read many books, and discussed with those far more knowledgeable than I am. The only type I relate to fully is a 9, well simply because I relate to every type. However, the self-forgetting, numbing, and escape from reality of a type 9 is too real. Not to mention, I crave harmony in my life and the lives of those around me more than most anything. I appreciate your comment, even if I am most definitely not a type 4.
It's really different hearing about the 4 FROM the 4, instead of from a therapist or psychologist. It brought back memories of stages I went through. I have hidden my sadness and pretended I was fine, put a brave face on it, but the sadness would seep out. I remember the anger and the sadness, the constant venting and analysing, trying to figure out how to get control, how to react better to triggers, how to be less angry and how to stay happy. I used to rate a good day as everything had to go perfectly, but something would happen to ruin it. I don't even remember, what happened to ruin it, but I was probably over reacting. I'm not grounded like the panel are, so I still have a long way to go.
Regarding needing a partner that offers equal intensity, my solution is I am responsible for my own happiness; I don't blame other people for my shortcomings; when I blame people I give my power away; when I take responsibility for my happiness, I move from victim to pilgrim. I still have a need for intensity but I channel it in my art. Intensity helps me to express myself better.
Perfectly said. I lived for years thinking those I had in my life were either intentionally, or even unintentionally not matching what I put out for them. And therefore that I wasn’t getting what I needed emotionally. But I’m realizing more and more that a lot of that is MY job and responsibility to fill and that has given so much relief in its own right.
I found it so fascinating that Anika was so grateful, happy and over-the-moon when she first talked, but then the second time this sadness came up and she was close to tears. We always hear this about the four but it was somewhat confronting and fascinating to see in real time. What a powerful type. -684 Sx/Sp
It was good to hear when she brought up the part in the beginning about fours “seeing the shadow in the family” and being truth tellers. This past year I came to the realization I am the scapegoat in my family. Hearing someone talk about this occurring specifically with fours and the reason behind it really helped confirm that. Thank you for this video.
Oof!!! Their body language! Defensive, frowning - wringing their hands, crossing their legs the same way! THAT IS ME! And yet such courage and vulnerability - such hard-earned wisdom and even joy! And all so self-aware! This has been amazing to witness! And I think I might be a self-preservation 4w3
Ok whoa. If body language is something to be revealing of an enneagram type, this makes me even more confident of being a 4 lol. My posture, especially when I'm somewhere that isn't at home, is extremely reserved as well. I'll do my research to make sure that there's a good link between body posture and type before I let it boost my confidence too much xd
Funny how envy works as I am estranged from an abusive family I found myself thinking at minute 26 "Do you know how lucky you are to miss a family that loved you?" It's all perspective.
I am a SP/SX, Type 4, Wing 5, and everything in this video resonates so much! The need to be "unique" has permeated my life, and it is so refreshing to listen to others who understand. Getting outside my internal emotional hermitage into the world is incredibly difficult, but something I am working diligently
This is one of my favourite talks about the type 4. Especially the guy. He is so accurate. He explains it so so well. I felt like screaming YES!!!!! I did not even listen to the others yet.
From the bottom of my heart, thank you. I so much have been made to feel bad for wanting honesty and openness but here you have all shown me that it's okay to be me - it's okay to be a four.
Wonderful panel of 4’s... all of what was said is completely relatable to this 4w5... especially getting out of the head & into the body & out into the world of nature & people... whether I feel like it or not... I’ve recently been invited to speak on the topic of intuition in front of a women’s group... it will be my first time experience with public speaking... I’m excited & terrified at the same time lol. Thank you so very much for this video xxx
I just did the test and I'm a self preservation 4 this is a lot to realize about yourself. My head is kinda spinning. I don't really know where to start. But the escaping into depression to not feel anything worse hits hard. not showing that to the world that darkness is very much real. I just feel like I'm I'm alot so I kinda hide it. Thanks guys good idea's to start.
Gardening. YES. It is so healing and just like she said, it grounds you and pulls me out of my head and into my gut and heart where I can experience all my feelings from a place of gratitude or observation. I also found taking singing lessons helped me learn to take the mess in my head and utilize It in a practical way in the body. Honestly, almost as transformative as therapy was for me. Now I'm exploring acting and it's SO hard but SO good to have to be that present in the body.
For all your Fours out there, you are seen and you are enough. I need to believe this myself most days. But I’ve spent so many days and nights believing that I am worthless, and I’m sick of it! We deserve more! You’ve got this!
This is truly enlightening. Bea, you are right that along with 6s, 4s have very distinct subtypes which if it had not been distinguished, such panels would have been very confusing or worst limiting for the learners when they only hear from one subtype. I think this way of learning about the types from the types themselves is so powerful and even more powerful when it is along with the subtypes. What is so different about the panels here is that many have done so much work themselves that their sharing is so much more illuminating and helpful. Their shares are profound, including that from Jennifer who is in the audience! Thank you so very much. This series is pure Gold and I just want to listen to them over and over again!
WOOOOWWW. Thanks for this. Also, what cuties haha. And the comments here are brilliant. Often I feel so complex that I overwhelm myself *eyeroll It helps to see others explain it! 4w3
Hey y’all 4w3 wings crew.. it’s very difficult for me to figure out my instinct because I identify with all of these instincts... also although i have a bubbly personality im quite comfortable with all emotions I find my excitement is as overwhelming to folks as my sadness and im much more comfortable sharing my joy than I do my struggle
Omg the number of times I’ve told my therapist that I exhaust myself with my feelings. I loved the discussion about getting out of that by getting into your body. Definitely something I need to do more of! (4w3)
As a social 4w3, I related so much to the lady in the middle! Just recently, I'm learning that I don't have to talk about everything that I am feeling to be authentic. Loved this video!
I've watched this so many times over the past year... And I always find something new in it. Something else tips me off to a behavior I have and where it comes from. I'm kinda sad this was the first panel I found and watched cause I haven't found another one that is as good. I love how this panel is like having a conversation with a series of 4s instead of being this structured question and answer. It's comfortable and it disarms you into self contemplation if you relate to it as a 4.
The lady from Holland, the man, and the lady on the far left whose sx 4w3 were very relatable! I enjoyed listening to fellow fours especially because I haven't met hardly any throughout my life. Despite that, we can always pick each other out in a crowd 😊
I love Annika's wisdom and her story and how she has dealt with adversity. I have a self identified T4 son who was SO jealous when his siblings were born and it took years for him to stop being angry. As an adult he has grown so much, and has a great relationship with his siblings. I have a sister and another super creative son deciding whether they are 4's or 9's at this time. I have a lot of 2 and 4 in me, but I am pretty sure I am a 2.
Feeling torn between being a sxual 5 or a self-preserving 4. Emotions are felt when alone, never when in company of another. A ravenous hunger for information and joy felt when examining every little things in detail. While I feel subpar, too ordinary to be special, a mere cog like many other in this societal machine. Yet, I love tragic stories, love, and drama. Traits of a 4 so relative to what I embody. Maybe a 4w5 or a 5w4. So now, I’ll keep listening to both 4 & 5!
Reflecting, I relate to the first woman very much. All day trying to understand things through emotions internally creates a terrible fear of subjecting others to the negative. It's a level of empathy perhaps. She starts so positive, even with the horrible parts of the past. Let's herself get sad but quickly gets back to her happy space-music and nature.
@@Maggie-zb7gx Yes, I hesitate to question someone’s emotional experience just from a discussion, but at the same time what and how we communicate can say a lot. What you said makes a lot of sense. The avoidance point you made I felt, I didn’t feel the depth as I did with the others.
In high school, I typed as a four. As an adult, I consistently type as an eight... I find it eye opening how many fours here were victimized, in very extreme ways. What is it about creatives that evoke such strong reactions in other people? I have come to see that my lack of conformity was read as a direct threat in my environment growing up. I was severely abused and further punished for needing to speak about my pain... I didn’t really have a choice to become anything other than an eight because of the harsh environment. I hated the description of type fours back when I first discovered it.... the common consensus is that nonconformity is inherently illogical therefore the only reasons for not conforming must be a construct of the ego (which is basically what enneagram really talks about, the hidden ego behind our knee jerk reactions or base mode of existing). I remember it saying I was a four and basically wouldn’t conform for the sake of not conforming; for the sake of being unique. This couldn’t be further from the truth. The whole concept of being “different” or “other” were learned concepts from the start, but to me I was just existing as I naturally am. It wasn’t foolish that I didn’t become like most people and try to sever those very real parts of myself for the sake of not being bullied or abused by other people. We can’t really run from ourselves... at the end of the day, no matter what path we take, we still have to live with ourselves at the end of the day. Maybe I type as an eight now because I started being much more direct with my communication with others, instead of using as another voiced, the more safe modality of expression of the arts. I mean, god... when I look back at my art in high school it’s obvious to me I was being abused, I’m not saying most people could see it, but it was I think a coping mechanism that was convenient because quite frankly, I’m brilliant at art. I know there is not a clear connection between 8’s and 4’s but I do feel there must be some connection because of the victimhood connection; they are just different ways of coping.
WOW WHAT........ the ordinary is my friend. So right and so difficult. There is beauty in the ordinary..... okay right. This makes SOOOO much sence. FINALLY. Thank you. And that there REALLY is another person in my relationsship... like really. I am not the only one who gets pushed by all my emotions and reactions.... my husband as Well. And the Gratitude journal.... I am so on it now.
I’ve always typed out as a 9. Honestly, I relate a lot of Sx 9s, but this man’s story about being a Sp 4 brought me to tears. I can relate so much. It was absolutely beautiful to listen to him. Could Sx 9s and Sp 4s mistype? What are similarities and differences?
Yea you’re actually spot on. According to the description of 9s on eclecticenegies website: “Nines also mistake themselves for Fours, but Nines tend to avoid negative emotions whereas Fours often exacerbate them.” So in other words, a 4 can’t help but be underwater in their emotions whereas a 9 drowns out everything period. Either way, both need to/can’t just get out of all that and “move”. And the two can easily be mistaken in culture because some see melancholy and peace as the same thing when their not www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/type9
Problem is, sp 4 also avoid negative feelings just as a 9 does, some differences are: Sx 9 are sweeter than sp 4 and only act aggressively if you really hurt their loved ones Sp 4 are more comfortable expressing their anger Sx 9 have a very characteristic trait of copying their significant others/loved ones traits and habits, is their way of expressing laziness, "being someone through another person"
@@AmberRadelow And I bet you're the only "real" Four, aren't you? Who the fuck are you to tell someone else what they're enneagram type is? So utterly disrespectful.
Another great panel. It is so funny and curious to se the individualists who always want to differ and be unique all sitting in row in the exact same synched position with their bodies - including hands, arms, legs and feet in unison and mirroring each other - even with a slight tipping back and forth of one foot... seeming to be moved by the exact same energy and movement....this happens in the middle section as the dutch woman is speaking about releasing her sadness into nature.
Self preservation 4 , strong in the face of difficulty... (?) Makes me wonder if I create it for myself.OR am I really the center of the world ? Raise the level of awareness and experience misery, or ignorance is bliss. Either way I am superior to my humanity (in my own world) as self preservation DEMANDS! of the shy humble person I was meant to be. To practice gurjeiff is to become the doctor and the patient. Thanx for the work you do.
Can I ask, what do you all look for in therapy/ in a therapist? I relate most with social, I think, and I’ve had some therapists so strongly mirror and reinforce my complaining that I’ve ended relationships,..now I’m learning to stop the therapy. The last one was even trained in the enneagram. Just curious, how do you go about explaining your patterns, or are there certain therapy modalities or philosophies you look for that help them understand how to help, without getting bogged deeper in moody moodiness?
56:50 "Can you ring, can you keep hammering me?" From a five who dated a four in a passionate relationship for 6 years, no, I can not and will no longer. Why? At a fours lowest level of health, they display Narcissistic traits: self-centered, idealistic/arrogant thinking and behavior, a lack of empathy and consideration for others, and an excessive need for admiration - again, to an unhealthy degree. This is quite the distraction, especially for a five who seeks knowledge to an unhealthy degree which feeds into an never ending sense of procrastination and a feeling of aimlessness, which we looth due to the direct correlation to feeling USELESS. It make sense of why fives end up with two's due to our need for support that we don't get from a four when unhealthy. Yet I have to admit, I have met no one more entertaining and refreshing than my four when she was in a great mood. You're talking about the brightest praise when she was in this place. Smh... No, I can't keep reaching out, soon it conflicts with the reclusive nature of my five w four nature. I feel foolish.
All I can say is WOW. Thanks you so much for all of your sharing. I have learned so much since my reintroduction to The Enneagram. I am a 4 and I am very appreciative of all of you.
I realize I am trying to figure out my identity through how I dress. I have been purchasing clothes and returning them for years in this search. How do I land on a way to dress? I want peace with my closet but I don't know what style reflects who I am.
I’m a Scorpio Moon (Cappy Sun & Sag Rising. Subtype is either self preserve or sexual. It seems like they flipped as I aged. Wings the same. 3 wing, feeling more like a 5 wing w age.
From the Enneagram Institute: The three Instincts (often erroneously called “the subtypes”) are a third set of distinctions that are extremely important for understanding personality. A major aspect of human nature lies in our instinctual “hard wiring” as biological beings. We each are endowed with specific instinctual intelligences that are necessary for our survival as individuals and as a species. We each have a self-preservation instinct (for preserving the body and its life and functioning), a sexual instinct (for extending ourselves in the environment and through the generations), and a social instinct (for getting along with others and forming secure social bonds).
I dunno-- I felt really disappointed with the 4's conversation. Seemed a bit chaotic and... I don't really know what. Maybe had there been more panelists or more engaged facilitatation...not sure.
More like a 2 imo. Especially when she talked about her relationships such as her past neediness. Also, for some reason, when she was explaining her way of trying to be “special” by being the one to raise her hand all the time in class which isn’t how a Type 4 would describe how they express wanting to be “special.” She seems more externally-oriented as well.
@@saucedupbat this is exactly what I think too. And 4s aren't hung up on being "special" like all the descriptions and stereotypes say. It's nonsense and a real 4 wouldn't describe themselves as having to learn how to stop trying to out special everyone 😑
I was reading the comments and they're all 4s including they last with the brown hair. I am not gonna lie when I am in that social 4.... I hate it. It's that inaction. I feel like. Express too much or maybe to the wrong person and feel empty afterwards depending.
When I am in sexual, it's a love hate because I am like a machine progressively and honestly confident however a little incentive and may hurt someone, and I genuinely don't want to hurt, it brings a lot of shame.
I know for a fact that I am a 7. So how am I relating to someone who types themselves as a 4 when the two types are SO different? I really don’t think any of these people are 4s on this panel and this is the kind of thing that is causing a ton of misunderstanding about type 4 in the enneagram community.
7s and 4s have a lot in common. 7s are running from the feelings that the 4s live in. Both are VERY creative types. If you're a 7 who spends a healthy amount of time with hard feelings, or if you're a self pres 4 who tries to insist on putting a happy face and spin on your life you could look like one or the other.
I'm also a 7 who relates quite a bit to this panel. That doesn't mean they're all 7s or I'm a 4. Although I relate quite a bit, it doesn't exactly fit. Yes, I can get very nostalgic and weepy quite easily but I get bored by negative emotions pretty quickly and that, as much as anything else, helps me to do what I need to do to heal and keep going. It's not quite the same.
Lady who longs for Holland, it's not Holland, 4 longs for what is missing. Grass is greener. Last women with the long grey hair is the drama queen 4. Yes, the sexual 4 are aggressive, narisstic, me me me, love the attention, play to the audience. This last women on the panel was impatient whilst others were talking.shifting in her seat, immature body language etc. Looking bored. I see that she Carrie's allot of shame hense her restlessness.
Grace Sanity Her outfit screams ”I'm so unique!” I'm a 4, yet I don't resonate with typical 4s need to be seen as different, with the way they dress. The lady in the end is the epitome of that trait. 🙄
It's amazing how different the subtypes are here. So glad that there's room in the enneagram for all our variations of crazy. We may have had challenging experiences with people who have the same type as the people on this panel, but please let's still be respectful in how we comment about them. It's such a gift that they shared themselves in this way, particularly as 4s already struggle so much with self judgement. Let's not add to it 💜
Her whole (immediate) family died in a short timespan and she was raped by a total stranger soooo yeah, that angst would maybe show in her body language cuz her life actually has been a drama 😐. Play to you your name and give her some grace maybe?.... You say she was “impatient” yet she contributed a ton to this panel by being her.
All of this is a bunch of malarkey. People wanting to belong will agree with anything, including the enneagram. Saying Im a 4 or a 2 or a 9 is just a way to pigeonhole people and give them a false sense of identity.
I think part of why Fours want to relate to others through so much story is needing to detail all the context we have built up in our head. As if people couldn't possibly understand what we truly hope to convey without every little tedious detail. We also often have a hard time actively listening. We are always thinking about how we want to respond when others are talking.
I totally agree about getting into your body and being active. Physical activities & a regimen totally help generate natural endorphins and serotonin that Fours are always craving
Perhaps writing would be a good way, to express 'all the details' and 'back up story' 4s feel is necessary, for others to see the 'gravity of the feeling/situation.
It is my personal opinion, (my mother was a 4) that secretly, they do NOT want to be understood. I think if they allowed themselves to 'hear' thers, they would find, everybody suffers pain 'here'. Seems no one leaves Earth, unscathed. 😶
Girl yes. I struggle with listening I tune out if it's to long or I have a super strong need to reply as someone is talking because I know if you get to the end I will forget what I want to say or even what you said if is to long because I really probably started thinking about something else while looking directly at you.
Wow, I so relate to this.
Ooooo, yessss.. That is spot on.
YES!!
I have watched over 50 enneagram type 4 videos, this is by far the most accurate and relatable video, thank you all so much for Sharing. It felt very personal
Agreed.
Totally agree.
Oh good to know Dunder.
Where did you found all this 50 videos plz?? :-)
The gentleman made me cry. I've been in a rut for a while, just spinning between apathy and complete obsession. His description of needing to be present, in his body, needing to push himself to get outside of his mind...to pursue what he knows instinctively is what he needs to feel more alive and whole...wow. What an eloquently spoken way of describing exactly what I've known all along that I too have needed. When he talked about the wind in his face, it broke me. Thank you, sir. The good thing about being in the 'shit' in this life, is that you are rarely ever in it alone. Here's to forgetting the smell, soaking up the nutrients, and being present in our bodies. Love and peace to you. Sincerely, a 9w8.
@Sunflower Bear I consider that a compliment, but I have tested numerous times, read many books, and discussed with those far more knowledgeable than I am. The only type I relate to fully is a 9, well simply because I relate to every type. However, the self-forgetting, numbing, and escape from reality of a type 9 is too real. Not to mention, I crave harmony in my life and the lives of those around me more than most anything. I appreciate your comment, even if I am most definitely not a type 4.
He made me cry too. I related so hard.
It's really different hearing about the 4 FROM the 4, instead of from a therapist or psychologist. It brought back memories of stages I went through. I have hidden my sadness and pretended I was fine, put a brave face on it, but the sadness would seep out. I remember the anger and the sadness, the constant venting and analysing, trying to figure out how to get control, how to react better to triggers, how to be less angry and how to stay happy.
I used to rate a good day as everything had to go perfectly, but something would happen to ruin it. I don't even remember, what happened to ruin it, but I was probably over reacting.
I'm not grounded like the panel are, so I still have a long way to go.
Regarding needing a partner that offers equal intensity, my solution is I am responsible for my own happiness; I don't blame other people for my shortcomings; when I blame people I give my power away; when I take responsibility for my happiness, I move from victim to pilgrim. I still have a need for intensity but I channel it in my art. Intensity helps me to express myself better.
Suit yourself. I'm going to keep blaming people. That's where all the action is
@@RandolphTheWhite1 Hahahahaha
Perfectly said. I lived for years thinking those I had in my life were either intentionally, or even unintentionally not matching what I put out for them. And therefore that I wasn’t getting what I needed emotionally. But I’m realizing more and more that a lot of that is MY job and responsibility to fill and that has given so much relief in its own right.
I found it so fascinating that Anika was so grateful, happy and over-the-moon when she first talked, but then the second time this sadness came up and she was close to tears. We always hear this about the four but it was somewhat confronting and fascinating to see in real time. What a powerful type.
-684 Sx/Sp
8:49 self preservation 4
9:34 sexual 4
9:19 social 4
Thank you!
thank you
Sadness is wisdom, that is why it can go so deep.
4w5 here. I feel understood, and that’s saying a lot🙃
Well said!! 👍🏻
It was good to hear when she brought up the part in the beginning about fours “seeing the shadow in the family” and being truth tellers. This past year I came to the realization I am the scapegoat in my family. Hearing someone talk about this occurring specifically with fours and the reason behind it really helped confirm that. Thank you for this video.
Oof!!! Their body language! Defensive, frowning - wringing their hands, crossing their legs the same way! THAT IS ME!
And yet such courage and vulnerability - such hard-earned wisdom and even joy! And all so self-aware!
This has been amazing to witness! And I think I might be a self-preservation 4w3
Ok whoa. If body language is something to be revealing of an enneagram type, this makes me even more confident of being a 4 lol. My posture, especially when I'm somewhere that isn't at home, is extremely reserved as well.
I'll do my research to make sure that there's a good link between body posture and type before I let it boost my confidence too much xd
Funny how envy works as I am estranged from an abusive family I found myself thinking at minute 26 "Do you know how lucky you are to miss a family that loved you?" It's all perspective.
true
Yes!!!!
I am a SP/SX, Type 4, Wing 5, and everything in this video resonates so much! The need to be "unique" has permeated my life, and it is so refreshing to listen to others who understand. Getting outside my internal emotional hermitage into the world is incredibly difficult, but something I am working diligently
I am a 4w5 as well🙂
I would suggest listening to the song 'four' by sleeping at last it's amazing 😁
This is one of my favourite talks about the type 4. Especially the guy. He is so accurate. He explains it so so well. I felt like screaming YES!!!!! I did not even listen to the others yet.
Yes, and he was spot on with the physical activity aspect of it.
As a four I deeply appreciate this. I am working to develop my 3 wing by being open to sharing my art
From the bottom of my heart, thank you. I so much have been made to feel bad for wanting honesty and openness but here you have all shown me that it's okay to be me - it's okay to be a four.
Wonderful panel of 4’s... all of what was said is completely relatable to this 4w5... especially getting out of the head & into the body & out into the world of nature & people... whether I feel like it or not...
I’ve recently been invited to speak on the topic of intuition in front of a women’s group... it will be my first time experience with public speaking... I’m excited & terrified at the same time lol. Thank you so very much for this video xxx
I just did the test and I'm a self preservation 4 this is a lot to realize about yourself. My head is kinda spinning. I don't really know where to start. But the escaping into depression to not feel anything worse hits hard. not showing that to the world that darkness is very much real. I just feel like I'm I'm alot so I kinda hide it. Thanks guys good idea's to start.
Gardening. YES. It is so healing and just like she said, it grounds you and pulls me out of my head and into my gut and heart where I can experience all my feelings from a place of gratitude or observation. I also found taking singing lessons helped me learn to take the mess in my head and utilize It in a practical way in the body. Honestly, almost as transformative as therapy was for me. Now I'm exploring acting and it's SO hard but SO good to have to be that present in the body.
For all your Fours out there, you are seen and you are enough. I need to believe this myself most days. But I’ve spent so many days and nights believing that I am worthless, and I’m sick of it! We deserve more! You’ve got this!
This is truly enlightening. Bea, you are right that along with 6s, 4s have very distinct subtypes which if it had not been distinguished, such panels would have been very confusing or worst limiting for the learners when they only hear from one subtype. I think this way of learning about the types from the types themselves is so powerful and even more powerful when it is along with the subtypes. What is so different about the panels here is that many have done so much work themselves that their sharing is so much more illuminating and helpful. Their shares are profound, including that from Jennifer who is in the audience! Thank you so very much. This series is pure Gold and I just want to listen to them over and over again!
WOOOOWWW. Thanks for this. Also, what cuties haha. And the comments here are brilliant. Often I feel so complex that I overwhelm myself *eyeroll
It helps to see others explain it!
4w3
Adelle Ramcharan also 4w3 ughhhh
Hey y’all 4w3 wings crew.. it’s very difficult for me to figure out my instinct because I identify with all of these instincts... also although i have a bubbly personality im quite comfortable with all emotions I find my excitement is as overwhelming to folks as my sadness and im much more comfortable sharing my joy than I do my struggle
Oooh Adelle again
Omg the number of times I’ve told my therapist that I exhaust myself with my feelings. I loved the discussion about getting out of that by getting into your body. Definitely something I need to do more of! (4w3)
As a social 4w3, I related so much to the lady in the middle! Just recently, I'm learning that I don't have to talk about everything that I am feeling to be authentic. Loved this video!
I've watched this so many times over the past year... And I always find something new in it. Something else tips me off to a behavior I have and where it comes from. I'm kinda sad this was the first panel I found and watched cause I haven't found another one that is as good. I love how this panel is like having a conversation with a series of 4s instead of being this structured question and answer. It's comfortable and it disarms you into self contemplation if you relate to it as a 4.
As a 4w5 sp, I really loved hearing the similarities between myself and the first two speakers.
Nature and gardening is highly therapeutic!
The lady from Holland, the man, and the lady on the far left whose sx 4w3 were very relatable! I enjoyed listening to fellow fours especially because I haven't met hardly any throughout my life. Despite that, we can always pick each other out in a crowd 😊
Wow this is amazing, it was great to hear from other 4's and their insights.
I relate to the social Four lady so much.
I love Annika's wisdom and her story and how she has dealt with adversity. I have a self identified T4 son who was SO jealous when his siblings were born and it took years for him to stop being angry. As an adult he has grown so much, and has a great relationship with his siblings. I have a sister and another super creative son deciding whether they are 4's or 9's at this time. I have a lot of 2 and 4 in me, but I am pretty sure I am a 2.
Thank so much. The most important thing is to learn to laugh about yourself as a 4, instead of dramatizing.
I totally relate to what the 2nd lady to the left was speaking...like she just said everything that I feel.
Beatice is a jedi masteress of the Enneagram.
The second woman in the purple was awesome. I’m not sure I’m that type, but I really enjoyed her talk
Feeling torn between being a sxual 5 or a self-preserving 4. Emotions are felt when alone, never when in company of another. A ravenous hunger for information and joy felt when examining every little things in detail. While I feel subpar, too ordinary to be special, a mere cog like many other in this societal machine. Yet, I love tragic stories, love, and drama. Traits of a 4 so relative to what I embody. Maybe a 4w5 or a 5w4. So now, I’ll keep listening to both 4 & 5!
Simply wonderful, thank you for sharing. I will post to Facebook.
Reflecting, I relate to the first woman very much. All day trying to understand things through emotions internally creates a terrible fear of subjecting others to the negative. It's a level of empathy perhaps. She starts so positive, even with the horrible parts of the past. Let's herself get sad but quickly gets back to her happy space-music and nature.
I see the first woman more as type 9
@@hirsch4155 I feel this. She is showing an avoidance of depth in favor of peace. 4 and 5 bring depth to life instead. 👍👍
@@Maggie-zb7gx Yes, I hesitate to question someone’s emotional experience just from a discussion, but at the same time what and how we communicate can say a lot. What you said makes a lot of sense. The avoidance point you made I felt, I didn’t feel the depth as I did with the others.
omg when she said first I need to get over my envy of not being self prez just @ ME ahhhh 😂
In high school, I typed as a four. As an adult, I consistently type as an eight... I find it eye opening how many fours here were victimized, in very extreme ways. What is it about creatives that evoke such strong reactions in other people?
I have come to see that my lack of conformity was read as a direct threat in my environment growing up. I was severely abused and further punished for needing to speak about my pain... I didn’t really have a choice to become anything other than an eight because of the harsh environment.
I hated the description of type fours back when I first discovered it.... the common consensus is that nonconformity is inherently illogical therefore the only reasons for not conforming must be a construct of the ego (which is basically what enneagram really talks about, the hidden ego behind our knee jerk reactions or base mode of existing).
I remember it saying I was a four and basically wouldn’t conform for the sake of not conforming; for the sake of being unique. This couldn’t be further from the truth. The whole concept of being “different” or “other” were learned concepts from the start, but to me I was just existing as I naturally am.
It wasn’t foolish that I didn’t become like most people and try to sever those very real parts of myself for the sake of not being bullied or abused by other people. We can’t really run from ourselves... at the end of the day, no matter what path we take, we still have to live with ourselves at the end of the day.
Maybe I type as an eight now because I started being much more direct with my communication with others, instead of using as another voiced, the more safe modality of expression of the arts.
I mean, god... when I look back at my art in high school it’s obvious to me I was being abused, I’m not saying most people could see it, but it was I think a coping mechanism that was convenient because quite frankly, I’m brilliant at art.
I know there is not a clear connection between 8’s and 4’s but I do feel there must be some connection because of the victimhood connection; they are just different ways of coping.
You sound like sx 4.
Thank you. This was beautiful. :)
WOW WHAT........ the ordinary is my friend. So right and so difficult.
There is beauty in the ordinary..... okay right. This makes SOOOO much sence.
FINALLY. Thank you.
And that there REALLY is another person in my relationsship... like really. I am not the only one who gets pushed by all my emotions and reactions.... my husband as Well.
And the Gratitude journal.... I am so on it now.
I’ve always typed out as a 9. Honestly, I relate a lot of Sx 9s, but this man’s story about being a Sp 4 brought me to tears. I can relate so much. It was absolutely beautiful to listen to him.
Could Sx 9s and Sp 4s mistype? What are similarities and differences?
Yea you’re actually spot on. According to the description of 9s on eclecticenegies website: “Nines also mistake themselves for Fours, but Nines tend to avoid negative emotions whereas Fours often exacerbate them.”
So in other words, a 4 can’t help but be underwater in their emotions whereas a 9 drowns out everything period. Either way, both need to/can’t just get out of all that and “move”. And the two can easily be mistaken in culture because some see melancholy and peace as the same thing when their not
www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/type9
Problem is, sp 4 also avoid negative feelings just as a 9 does, some differences are:
Sx 9 are sweeter than sp 4 and only act aggressively if you really hurt their loved ones
Sp 4 are more comfortable expressing their anger
Sx 9 have a very characteristic trait of copying their significant others/loved ones traits and habits, is their way of expressing laziness, "being someone through another person"
There are no 4s on this panel. That person is likely a 9.
@@AmberRadelow And I bet you're the only "real" Four, aren't you? Who the fuck are you to tell someone else what they're enneagram type is? So utterly disrespectful.
@@radiatormike many 4's hate the idea of resembling others and want to be unique. That person is almost a stereotype of that.
I love this! Love all these people honestly.
Loved the Nisargadatta reference. Buddhism and stoicism (and mushrooms) have helped me a lot.
I love the Fours :)
This was fascinating!! Thank you so much for sharing!
Another great panel. It is so funny and curious to se the individualists who always want to differ and be unique all sitting in row in the exact same synched position with their bodies - including hands, arms, legs and feet in unison and mirroring each other - even with a slight tipping back and forth of one foot... seeming to be moved by the exact same energy and movement....this happens in the middle section as the dutch woman is speaking about releasing her sadness into nature.
Self preservation 4 , strong in the face of difficulty... (?)
Makes me wonder if I create it for myself.OR am I really the center of the world ? Raise the level of awareness and experience misery, or ignorance is bliss.
Either way I am superior to my humanity (in my own world) as self preservation DEMANDS! of the shy humble person I was meant to be. To practice gurjeiff is to become the doctor and the patient.
Thanx for the work you do.
Can I ask, what do you all look for in therapy/ in a therapist?
I relate most with social, I think, and I’ve had some therapists so strongly mirror and reinforce my complaining that I’ve ended relationships,..now I’m learning to stop the therapy. The last one was even trained in the enneagram. Just curious, how do you go about explaining your patterns, or are there certain therapy modalities or philosophies you look for that help them understand how to help, without getting bogged deeper in moody moodiness?
As a sp 4, I’ve never felt so understood 🥹
funny-you see immeadetly they are 4, by how they are dressed.
Enneagram is not how you dress, and uniqueness is only secondary to the Four complex.
Guy 2 on wishing parents were still here: if they suffer profoundly, you want them freed. But boy do i miss my sweet hilarious mama.
Helpful vid, loved it!
In your experience What is the most compatible type for a 4? Ive found 8s are ok, 7s are attractive but not good in the long run. 2s are too needy.
56:50
"Can you ring, can you keep hammering me?"
From a five who dated a four in a passionate relationship for 6 years, no, I can not and will no longer. Why? At a fours lowest level of health, they display Narcissistic traits: self-centered, idealistic/arrogant thinking and behavior, a lack of empathy and consideration for others, and an excessive need for admiration - again, to an unhealthy degree.
This is quite the distraction, especially for a five who seeks knowledge to an unhealthy degree which feeds into an never ending sense of procrastination and a feeling of aimlessness, which we looth due to the direct correlation to feeling USELESS.
It make sense of why fives end up with two's due to our need for support that we don't get from a four when unhealthy. Yet I have to admit, I have met no one more entertaining and refreshing than my four when she was in a great mood. You're talking about the brightest praise when she was in this place.
Smh... No, I can't keep reaching out, soon it conflicts with the reclusive nature of my five w four nature. I feel foolish.
All I can say is WOW. Thanks you so much for all of your sharing. I have learned so much since my reintroduction to The Enneagram. I am a 4 and I am very appreciative of all of you.
I like Riso’s book on Enneagram the best
I realize I am trying to figure out my identity through how I dress. I have been purchasing clothes and returning them for years in this search. How do I land on a way to dress? I want peace with my closet but I don't know what style reflects who I am.
So, so good!!
You forgot to discuss the romantic and fantasy worlds of 4s
If you see me as fragile, you won’t hurt me.
Bea, thank you!
funny that Patrick thinks he can be a loser compared to threes....but i loved his share.
Omg, it's Dylan Thomas! He lives!
He looks a bit like him! I thought so too.
Beautiful
i related to all these 4's. very good video.
“Ok I am safe here” brilliant.
I can relate to this so much. 💗
Did someone say Jess Mariano?
I feel so seen... also, I need to move to California.
Gawd...Roneo sheets - haven't seen (smelled) those for 35 years!
Would love to know which musical piece is in the intro. It is so calming.
That is Suzanne Ciani - Ocean Avenue from her live performance at TNS in 2014. tns.commonweal.org/podcasts/suzanne-ciani/#.YAty3C9h3OQ
Damn... I thought I was a 6 for years but watching this video and not even halfway through I'm forced to admit that I am a 4.
Oh my gosh! I relate sir
god, i’m such a 4 😂
Taking a little poll… As a 4, What is your Moon sign in astrology? Feel free to add your wing and subtype also! :)
I’m a Scorpio Moon (Cappy Sun & Sag Rising. Subtype is either self preserve or sexual. It seems like they flipped as I aged. Wings the same. 3 wing, feeling more like a 5 wing w age.
Aries moon, a bit more on 4w5, social 4
Aries. 4w5.
Also Aries moon!
Gemini
Mother Hunger # Kelly Mc Daniel highly recommended by 4 to 4s ♡ ♡ ♡
4s are funny af
Disagree with the woman that said “all 4s are angry with people”
Same... Not true
Why the hell is it called a "sexual" 4?
From the Enneagram Institute:
The three Instincts (often erroneously called “the subtypes”) are a third set of distinctions that are extremely important for understanding personality. A major aspect of human nature lies in our instinctual “hard wiring” as biological beings. We each are endowed with specific instinctual intelligences that are necessary for our survival as individuals and as a species. We each have a self-preservation instinct (for preserving the body and its life and functioning), a sexual instinct (for extending ourselves in the environment and through the generations), and a social instinct (for getting along with others and forming secure social bonds).
Chestnut doesn't hide her dislike of 4s well.
Agree
I dunno-- I felt really disappointed with the 4's conversation. Seemed a bit chaotic and... I don't really know what. Maybe had there been more panelists or more engaged facilitatation...not sure.
I think the lady 2nd from left could possibly be a 3w4 wing, she doesn't quite fit the type here. More the Achiever. Great panel, thanks!
I see lots of 4 in it .... I think she is just a 4w3 actually...
I didn't think she seemed like a 4 either... there's a big difference in her answers compared to the others. She seemed to be reciting stereotypes.
More like a 2 imo. Especially when she talked about her relationships such as her past neediness. Also, for some reason, when she was explaining her way of trying to be “special” by being the one to raise her hand all the time in class which isn’t how a Type 4 would describe how they express wanting to be “special.” She seems more externally-oriented as well.
@@saucedupbat this is exactly what I think too. And 4s aren't hung up on being "special" like all the descriptions and stereotypes say. It's nonsense and a real 4 wouldn't describe themselves as having to learn how to stop trying to out special everyone 😑
53:45
Stay in the body... Wow
I was reading the comments and they're all 4s including they last with the brown hair. I am not gonna lie when I am in that social 4.... I hate it. It's that inaction. I feel like. Express too much or maybe to the wrong person and feel empty afterwards depending.
When I am in sexual, it's a love hate because I am like a machine progressively and honestly confident however a little incentive and may hurt someone, and I genuinely don't want to hurt, it brings a lot of shame.
I loved the ending about the 4 and 5 relationship and how he described his experience with his wife
I know for a fact that I am a 7. So how am I relating to someone who types themselves as a 4 when the two types are SO different? I really don’t think any of these people are 4s on this panel and this is the kind of thing that is causing a ton of misunderstanding about type 4 in the enneagram community.
7s and 4s have a lot in common. 7s are running from the feelings that the 4s live in. Both are VERY creative types. If you're a 7 who spends a healthy amount of time with hard feelings, or if you're a self pres 4 who tries to insist on putting a happy face and spin on your life you could look like one or the other.
I'm also a 7 who relates quite a bit to this panel.
That doesn't mean they're all 7s or I'm a 4.
Although I relate quite a bit, it doesn't exactly fit. Yes, I can get very nostalgic and weepy quite easily but I get bored by negative emotions pretty quickly and that, as much as anything else, helps me to do what I need to do to heal and keep going. It's not quite the same.
damn I'm a social 4
That older woman doesn’t sound like a 4 at all. Lol.
Yeah she does, she's just one with extroverted tendencies, a strong 3 wing, sx variant and ENFP as opposed to the more typical Fi Dom 4.
Lady who longs for Holland, it's not Holland, 4 longs for what is missing. Grass is greener. Last women with the long grey hair is the drama queen 4. Yes, the sexual 4 are aggressive, narisstic, me me me, love the attention, play to the audience. This last women on the panel was impatient whilst others were talking.shifting in her seat, immature body language etc. Looking bored. I see that she Carrie's allot of shame hense her restlessness.
Grace Sanity Her outfit screams ”I'm so unique!”
I'm a 4, yet I don't resonate with typical 4s need to be seen as different, with the way they dress.
The lady in the end is the epitome of that trait. 🙄
It's amazing how different the subtypes are here. So glad that there's room in the enneagram for all our variations of crazy. We may have had challenging experiences with people who have the same type as the people on this panel, but please let's still be respectful in how we comment about them. It's such a gift that they shared themselves in this way, particularly as 4s already struggle so much with self judgement. Let's not add to it 💜
Her whole (immediate) family died in a short timespan and she was raped by a total stranger soooo yeah, that angst would maybe show in her body language cuz her life actually has been a drama 😐. Play to you your name and give her some grace maybe?.... You say she was “impatient” yet she contributed a ton to this panel by being her.
Everyone was fine. Let's not pick people apart for sharing themselves with us.
@@Ikram-sz8re exactly.
All of this is a bunch of malarkey. People wanting to belong will agree with anything, including the enneagram. Saying Im a 4 or a 2 or a 9 is just a way to pigeonhole people and give them a false sense of identity.